prostitution

[kasia]

is there anything inherently wrong with prostitution?

and let's focus specifically on straight female prostitutes.

[SunWuKong]

[quote:085d3cb77e="kasia"]is there anything inherently wrong with prostitution?

and let's focus specifically on straight female prostitutes.[/quote:085d3cb77e]


i think as long as it's between two consenting adults, it's not a problem. but this precludes situations where the pimp is pumping his *ahem* hoes full of heroine to get them addicted, or prostitution rings where women from asia are being shipped over here illegally and must "pay off" their passage.

[angelnympho]

I don't think there's anything wrong with two consenting adults handling a business deal. As long as both of them are willing and realize what they're doing, it's a-ok. What goes on in one's bedroom is NO business of mine, let alone the GOVERNMENT.

But there is something wrong with the whole situation when it becomes like.. hoes working for a pimp.. making money for him and getting nothing out of it. Inherently, though... I don't think it's a big deal. No different than your run of the mill sluts who sleep with a guy because he's got a nice car. Might lack a little bit of good judgement, but it's their decision. As long as there's no.. forcing of any kind going on...

[kasia]

do you think it says anything about the dynamics of our society? how men tend to have the money to buy sex? how there is less of a stigma attached to them doing so?

[SunWuKong]

[quote:1a09f8ffba="kasia"]do you think it says anything about the dynamics of our society? how men tend to have the money to buy sex? how there is less of a stigma attached to them doing so?[/quote:1a09f8ffba]


well i think women have the money to buy sex, too. but they are less willing to do so, either because they simply don't like that, or because of the stigma attached to women actually buying sex.

i am not exactly sure why there is less stigma for men to buy sex. i think it probably has to do with how it's more acceptable for men to desire sex while one may even say that society thinks it's [i:1a09f8ffba]unacceptable[/i:1a09f8ffba] for women to desire casual sex.

[deez nuts]

[quote:78ec596506="SunWuKung"][quote:78ec596506="kasia"]do you think it says anything about the dynamics of our society? how men tend to have the money to buy sex? how there is less of a stigma attached to them doing so?[/quote:78ec596506]


well i think women have the money to buy sex, too. but they are less willing to do so, either because they simply don't like that, or because of the stigma attached to women actually buying sex.

i am not exactly sure why there is less stigma for men to buy sex. i think it probably has to do with how it's more acceptable for men to desire sex while one may even say that society thinks it's [i:78ec596506]unacceptable[/i:78ec596506] for women to desire casual sex.[/quote:78ec596506]

I think women would rather use that money to go shopping.

[angelnympho]

[quote:ca6115cc48="SunWuKung"]
well i think women have the money to buy sex, too. but they are less willing to do so, either because they simply don't like that, or because of the stigma attached to women actually buying sex.

i am not exactly sure why there is less stigma for men to buy sex. i think it probably has to do with how it's more acceptable for men to desire sex while one may even say that society thinks it's [i:ca6115cc48]unacceptable[/i:ca6115cc48] for women to desire casual sex.[/quote:ca6115cc48]

the way i see it.. women dont really NEED to buy sex... its so much easier for a woman to go out and look for sex with no strings and no charge and actually find it than it is for a man.

one of the perks of being a girl.. u wont be sex starved because no matter how ugly you are, there's always gonna be some ugly guy desparate to have sex with you. its all a matter of whether or not you'll lower yourself to do so.

[Barbs]

lately i've begun to realize that a lot more guys than i would've thought have actually been with a prostitute. i heard thru the grapevine about these random guys i know who've been to prostitutes. it's sooo disturbing! what is the appeal in it for men?

[Arex]

Originally posted by Barbs@Aug 11 2002, 10:37 PM
what is the appeal in it for men?
Maybe the sex? If this dry spell of mine keeps up, I may just join the ranks! Hahaha!

Alex

[boycott]

Originally posted by Barbs@Aug 12 2002, 06:37 AM
lately i've begun to realize that a lot more guys than i would've thought have actually been with a prostitute. i heard thru the grapevine about these random guys i know who've been to prostitutes. it's sooo disturbing! what is the appeal in it for men?
Basically men need sex like women need shoes, handbags, new clothes and more. Men need blowjobs like women need manicures. Men cheat on women like women cheat on frequent eating establishments by having men take them to new restaurants they've never been to.
Why we do all this, we don't know and I'm sure women don't know why they have their cravings either.
Hopefully, I won't insult any men or women reading this, but most men who goes to hookers are either too lazy or poor or impatient to bring regular girls out on dates and spend precious time and money just to get them in bed. The rest are just sick of being used by women and not getting super slutty porno service in bed time and time again and would rather not go through the hassle of the courting process nor put in the financial and long time investment of getting their sexual urges relieved when they can gladly fork out a lump sum to professionals and have everything fixed for less than an hour. Ultimately, guys have lots of semen like the male members of any species and they've got to constantly expel it in order to insure that his own kind will survive based on Darwinism. However, unlike the past where semen was really deposited, nowadays it isn't, not usually for unwed unions but hopefully the memory of the encounter is and the female will subconsciously or otherwise go in search of that individual for more deposit encounters. A tip for all girls; don't show a guy your sexual prowess unless he's your husband or you want him to not marry you and if you're married and don't have any sexual prowess, well you'd better learn some or you're going to lose him to someone or many people who have it, lots of it...which leads to divorce and you're back at zero starting over wondering what went wrong.

[deez nuts]

Originally posted by Barbs@Aug 12 2002, 06:37 AM
lately i've begun to realize that a lot more guys than i would've thought have actually been with a prostitute. i heard thru the grapevine about these random guys i know who've been to prostitutes. it's sooo disturbing! what is the appeal in it for men?
The appeal? Quick cheap sex. So you can hit it and quit it.

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by boycott@Aug 20 2002, 07:12 AM
Ultimately, guys have lots of semen like the male members of any species and they've got to constantly expel it in order to insure that his own kind will survive based on Darwinism.


:huh:


visit to the sperm bank anyone? you can make a buck and expel your semen.

[deez nuts]

Originally posted by SunWuKung@Aug 20 2002, 05:19 PM
Originally posted by boycott@Aug 20 2002, 07:12 AM
Ultimately, guys have lots of semen like the male members of any species and they've got to constantly expel it in order to insure that his own kind will survive based on Darwinism.


:huh:


visit to the sperm bank anyone? you can make a buck and expel your semen.
Actually all kidding aside, monkeyking. It is part of Darwinism. He does have a valid point.

A major part of the "survival of the fittest" aspect relies on what is called the "alpha male." Gist of it, is the alpha male gets to mate with as many females as he can to ensure that his gene pool gets passed on. The more females he mates with, the higher the chance his gene pool gets passed on; i.e. the dominant male lion and his harem. In another example, the male wolf engages in intercourse with the female wolf. After he climaxes, he is stuck inside and attached to the female wolf for like an hour or so. This is the ensure his genetic material and only his will fertilize with the female's and that other wolves won't have the chance to procreate with her.

He was drawing the similiarities between this and men with prostitutes. Which is not the first time I heard of such a theory. Don't ask me how I remember.



<!--EDIT|Chasiubao_Boy|Aug 20 2002, 06:17 PM-->

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by Chasiubao_Boy@Aug 20 2002, 12:36 PM
Originally posted by SunWuKung@Aug 20 2002, 05:19 PM
Originally posted by boycott@Aug 20 2002, 07:12 AM
Ultimately, guys have lots of semen like the male members of any species and they've got to constantly expel it in order to insure that his own kind will survive based on Darwinism.


:huh:


visit to the sperm bank anyone? you can make a buck and expel your semen.
Actually all kidding aside, monkeyking. It is part of Darwinism. He does have a valid point.

A major part of the "survival of the fittest" aspect relies on what is called the "alpha male." Gist of it, is the alpha male gets to mate with as many females as he can to ensure that his gene pool gets passed on. The more females he mates with, the higher the chance his gene pool gets passed on; i.e. the dominant male lion and his harem. In another example, the male wolf engages in intercourse with the female wolf. After he climaxes, he is stuck inside and attached to the female wolf for like an hour or so. This is the ensure his genetic material and only his will fertilize with the female's and that other wolves won't have the chance to procreate with her.

He was drawing the similiarities between this and men with prostitutes. Which is not the first time I heard of such a theory. Don't ask me how I remember.
yeah i understand his point, but i was thinking that darwinism doesn't really apply to humankind anymore, and that human societal values and rational thought can probably overcome any inherent genetically imbued pressure for the male to "spread his seed".

[deez nuts]

Originally posted by SunWuKung@Aug 20 2002, 11:28 PM

yeah i understand his point, but i was thinking that darwinism doesn't really apply to humankind anymore, and that human societal values and rational thought can probably overcome any inherent genetically imbued pressure for the male to "spread his seed".
That's debatable. Society and rational thought definitely is a huge factor in suppressing that urge. But, I still believe it to be in our primordial instinct. Take a look at polygamy past and present or the existence of harems. What about concubines or marriage within royal families to keep the bloodline pure.

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by Chasiubao_Boy@Aug 20 2002, 06:39 PM
Originally posted by SunWuKung@Aug 20 2002, 11:28 PM

yeah i understand his point, but i was thinking that darwinism doesn't really apply to humankind anymore, and that human societal values and rational thought can probably overcome any inherent genetically imbued pressure for the male to "spread his seed".
That's debatable. Society and rational thought definitely is a huge factor in suppressing that urge. But, I still believe it to be in our primordial instinct. Take a look at polygamy past and present or the existence of harems. What about concubines or marriage within royal families to keep the bloodline pure.
good point

that brings me to a couple of questions.

1) i think if many guys are to be honest with themselves, they would love to have multiple sex partners (if absolutely no relationship commitments are necessary, or if society does not look down on it - sort of like societally accepted male-based polygamy). sure there are women who are like that too, but would it be true to say that most of them actually wouldn't want that?

2) for guys that don't sleep around, what makes you not want to do that? for me personally, i don't want to risk hurting the other person emotionally.

[deez nuts]

Originally posted by SunWuKung@Aug 20 2002, 11:51 PM

good point

that brings me to a couple of questions.

1) i think if many guys are to be honest with themselves, they would love to have multiple sex partners (if absolutely no relationship commitments are necessary, or if society does not look down on it - sort of like societally accepted male-based polygamy). sure there are women who are like that too, but would it be true to say that most of them actually wouldn't want that?

2) for guys that don't sleep around, what makes you not want to do that? for me personally, i don't want to risk hurting the other person emotionally.
Good lead in MK,

I guess I'll bite.

Answer to question 1: Yeah, I do want to be with multiple sexual partners. But our society emphasizes monogomy. And infidelity and cheating is frowned upon. I am open to the idea of an open marriage, but that too, is looked down upon. I guess my surroundings growing up also played a factor, since I grew up in a predominantly Latino neighborhood in Jackson Heights. And the pressure to have multiple sexual partners was immense, the whole Latin "machismo" concept. I was caught between the pubescent rampaging sexual urges and peer pressure from my friends versus the idea of fidelity and monogomy from my conservative Chinese parents. Was a very confusing time for me. I can't lie and say this hasn't played a factor in my dating patterns, today, because it definitely has.

Answer to question 2: I used to cheat and sleep around, when I was younger, and in a monogomous relationship. I still feel uncomfortable and nervous on the onset when I am in a exclusively one on one type relationship, but it slowly wanes. Maybe it's just insecurities, I don't know. But one of my ex-gf who is a Psychiatry resident used to have blast analyzing and debating this with me.

Only difference now than before is that 1)I try not to put myself in situations where I may be inclined to cheat (thank god for long hours at the hospital, but curse those damn nurses). 2)I realized I hurt my partner and was immature rather than a macho thing to do at this point. It's not worth hurting someone at the expense of your own carnal pleasure 3)Unless we both consent to stay together and see other people, I won't cheat, it's not worth the drama.



<!--EDIT|Chasiubao_Boy|Aug 21 2002, 12:16 AM-->

[kimpossible]

Originally posted by boycott@Aug 20 2002, 04:12 AM

Basically men need sex like women need shoes, handbags, new clothes and more. Men need blowjobs like women need manicures. Men cheat on women like women cheat on frequent eating establishments by having men take them to new restaurants they've never been to.

WTF?

You know... nevermind. Screw it. I was about to go on a diatribe but it will just end up being a waste of server space and bandwidth.

[artsfartsyjanet]

Originally posted by Hello_Hapa@Aug 20 2002, 08:21 PM
Originally posted by boycott@Aug 20 2002, 04:12 AM

Basically men need sex like women need shoes, handbags, new clothes and more. &nbsp;Men need blowjobs like women need manicures. Men cheat on women like women cheat on frequent eating establishments by having men take them to new restaurants they've never been to.

WTF?

You know... nevermind. Screw it. I was about to go on a diatribe but it will just end up being a waste of server space and bandwidth.
no, it won't. I'd like to read what you have to say.

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by Hello_Hapa@Aug 20 2002, 08:21 PM
Originally posted by boycott@Aug 20 2002, 04:12 AM

Basically men need sex like women need shoes, handbags, new clothes and more. &nbsp;Men need blowjobs like women need manicures. Men cheat on women like women cheat on frequent eating establishments by having men take them to new restaurants they've never been to.

WTF?

You know... nevermind. Screw it. I was about to go on a diatribe but it will just end up being a waste of server space and bandwidth.
hehhehheh yes i was waiting for a female representative to voice her opinions about this. i thought that would be more effective.

[artsfartsyjanet]

Originally posted by SunWuKung@Aug 20 2002, 09:26 PM
Originally posted by Hello_Hapa@Aug 20 2002, 08:21 PM
Originally posted by boycott@Aug 20 2002, 04:12 AM

Basically men need sex like women need shoes, handbags, new clothes and more. Men need blowjobs like women need manicures. Men cheat on women like women cheat on frequent eating establishments by having men take them to new restaurants they've never been to.

WTF?

You know... nevermind. Screw it. I was about to go on a diatribe but it will just end up being a waste of server space and bandwidth.
hehhehheh yes i was waiting for a female representative to voice her opinions about this. i thought that would be more effective.
I will definitely represent also . I just wanted to hear what others have to say.

[kimpossible]

No, seriously. I neither feel the need to justify anything to boycott, nor the desire to educate him.

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by Chasiubao_Boy@Aug 20 2002, 07:12 PM
Answer to question 1: Yeah, I do want to be with multiple sexual partners. But our society emphasizes monogomy. And infidelity and cheating is frowned upon. I am open to the idea of an open marriage, but that too, is looked down upon. I guess my surroundings growing up also played a factor, since I grew up in a predominantly Latino neighborhood in Jackson Heights. And the pressure to have multiple sexual partners was immense, the whole Latin "machismo" concept. I was caught between the pubescent rampaging sexual urges and peer pressure from my friends versus the idea of fidelity and monogomy from my conservative Chinese parents. Was a very confusing time for me. I can't lie and say this hasn't played a factor in my dating patterns, today, because it definitely has.
but do you think that it would be correct to say that alot less women than men would want to have multiple sex partners?

i mean you can say yes and argue with darwinism and use as examples the harems, male-centered polygamy, etc etc. but a perfect counter-argument to that would be that these were instituded in patriarchal societies where women would not be allowed to have multiple sex partners.

[artsfartsyjanet]

Originally posted by Hello_Hapa@Aug 20 2002, 09:52 PM
No, seriously. I neither feel the need to justify anything to boycott, nor the desire to educate him.
After reading boycott's post, I would see how you would not feel the need to justify yourself in light of his argument. However, what are your views on prostitution? In fact, how do other women on YW view prostitution? I would talk about my views, but I'm just too lazy to write about it at this moment.



<!--EDIT|artsfartsyjanet|Aug 20 2002, 10:13 PM-->

[kimpossible]

Cost to benefit ratio. I read boycott's interaction with angelnympho, and his comments about Asians in nice cars = "guys with small dicks." Combined with his misogyny I'm rather convinced that rational discussion about how screwed up one-dimensional labels are is not a possibility.

[kimpossible]

Originally posted by artsfartsyjanet@Aug 20 2002, 07:12 PM

After reading boycott's post, I would see how you would not feel the need to justify yourself in light of his argument. However, what are your views on prostitution? In fact, how do other women on YW view prostitution? I would talk about my views, but I'm just too lazy to write about it at this moment.
Sorry, J. I was too peeved to fully read what you wrote.

I'm of two minds on prostitution. I used to be 100% against the sex industry across the board. I equated stripping and porn, anything flesh related really, to oppressive patriarchal exploitation and sin in general.

Then two things happened. My sister came out to me and I traveled to Europe. Since my sister has come out as a lesbian I have become more aware of how sexuality functions outside of male-dominant hetero culture. Some porn is made by women for women and there is a sex-positive slant to it. Women's sexuality is not just cotton candy fluff for men only. We're sexual beings and that expression shouldn't be set aside as taboo and dirty.

Then, Europe. For me it was a really eye opening experience to walk around Amsterdam where there are prostitutes, sex shows, sex museums, porn EVERYWHERE. Even the Chamber of Commerce had approved and rated escort services in the Yellow Pages. Truthfully it made me feel funny to have parents walk around with their children when there were porn posters (and we're talking some beastiality) plastered all over the windows. But I figured, I'm a foreigner there so I better not judge.

I really think there are some women who choose sex as an open and positive expression, even to the point of making money off of it. But I think the average women in prostitution is driven to it out of total desperation and exploited by a man who is willing to coldheartedly peddle her flesh. I think before we could really unpack and examine the issue of prostitution we would first have to eradicate the idea of labeling sexual women as sluts.

[deez nuts]

Originally posted by SunWuKung@Aug 21 2002, 02:58 AM
Originally posted by Chasiubao_Boy@Aug 20 2002, 07:12 PM
Answer to question 1: Yeah, I do want to be with multiple sexual partners. But our society emphasizes monogomy. And infidelity and cheating is frowned upon. I am open to the idea of an open marriage, but that too, is looked down upon. I guess my surroundings growing up also played a factor, since I grew up in a predominantly Latino neighborhood in Jackson Heights. And the pressure to have multiple sexual partners was immense, the whole Latin "machismo" concept. I was caught between the pubescent rampaging sexual urges and peer pressure from my friends versus the idea of fidelity and monogomy from my conservative Chinese parents. Was a very confusing time for me. I can't lie and say this hasn't played a factor in my dating patterns, today, because it definitely has.
but do you think that it would be correct to say that alot less women than men would want to have multiple sex partners?

i mean you can say yes and argue with darwinism and use as examples the harems, male-centered polygamy, etc etc. but a perfect counter-argument to that would be that these were instituded in patriarchal societies where women would not be allowed to have multiple sex partners.
I agree with you, most definitely. But, predominantly it's the males that instituted those rules. Because speaking strictly from a scientific point of view, it is to the male's benefit to do so. It's fucked up, in my opinion, but this is strictly speaking from a scientific viewpoint.

I mean if you look at most species and humans included, if you remember from your biology class that females are more selective in their choice of mates. You know the whole ritual of courtship to impress the female, etc etc. And biologically speaking, the female is generally more monogomous in that fact they have to carry the offspring for the full gestation period and the burden falls on the female to take care of the offspring and it's to the male's discretion whether he wanders off or not. Again, this is from the scientific point of view.

And then there's that whole bullshit of a double standard, where if a man sleeps with a lot of women, he's a stud. If a woman sleeps with a lot of men, she's a slut.



<!--EDIT|Chasiubao_Boy|Aug 21 2002, 11:51 AM-->

[amietron]

Courtship. Pwahaha. Puff out those chests! Show me those beautiful feathers! Roaaaaaar! :D

I read in some magazine a while back, a woman wanted sex, no strings attached. So, she got a male-hooker (what are they called? jigolo? shoot, i don't know. :huh:) Anywayy, if I remember correctly, she said it wasn't as fulfilling as she thought it'd be. Somewhere along the lines of.. it ain't as good as when there are feelings involved. Lack of intimacy? I dunno. Gawwd. I'm only a kid.

Hey, Doc? What about women, sex, and feelings, and stuff? Hm? Like it's supposed to be special cus it's with with HIM.. whereas for a guy, she's just ass?

Boycott, I thought it was kinda.. funny. :x

[deez nuts]

Originally posted by amietron@Aug 21 2002, 12:33 PM


Hey, Doc? What about women, sex, and feelings, and stuff? Hm? Like it's supposed to be special cus it's with with HIM.. whereas for a guy, she's just ass?


I wouldn't know. I'm a guy.

[amietron]

Originally posted by Chasiubao_Boy@Aug 21 2002, 04:53 AM
Originally posted by amietron@Aug 21 2002, 12:33 PM


Hey, Doc? What about women, sex, and feelings, and stuff? Hm? Like it's supposed to be special cus it's with with HIM.. whereas for a guy, she's just ass?


I wouldn't know. I'm a guy.
Pretend you're a girl, kinda like in med. school, when you had to pretend to be the patient, while another med student tended to your needs? "Oh, it hurts here.. and there." I dunno.

[deez nuts]

Originally posted by amietron@Aug 21 2002, 01:11 PM
Originally posted by Chasiubao_Boy@Aug 21 2002, 04:53 AM
Originally posted by amietron@Aug 21 2002, 12:33 PM


Hey, Doc? What about women, sex, and feelings, and stuff? Hm? Like it's supposed to be special cus it's with with HIM.. whereas for a guy, she's just ass?


I wouldn't know. I'm a guy.
Pretend you're a girl, kinda like in med. school, when you had to pretend to be the patient, while another med student tended to your needs? "Oh, it hurts here.. and there." I dunno.
You gotta buy me dinner first then!

[amietron]

Originally posted by Chasiubao_Boy@Aug 21 2002, 05:19 AM
Originally posted by amietron@Aug 21 2002, 01:11 PM
Originally posted by Chasiubao_Boy@Aug 21 2002, 04:53 AM
Originally posted by amietron@Aug 21 2002, 12:33 PM


Hey, Doc? What about women, sex, and feelings, and stuff? Hm? Like it's supposed to be special cus it's with with HIM.. whereas for a guy, she's just ass?


I wouldn't know. I'm a guy.
Pretend you're a girl, kinda like in med. school, when you had to pretend to be the patient, while another med student tended to your needs? "Oh, it hurts here.. and there." I dunno.
You gotta buy me dinner first then!
Yeah, no problemo. Where ya wanna go? San Francisco has lots of restaurants, but then again, so does NYC. Where's it gonna be Doc? :P

And I'll be sure to bring woot with me. Together, we're 33. Is that old enough for you?

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by Chasiubao_Boy@Aug 21 2002, 06:50 AM
Originally posted by SunWuKung@Aug 21 2002, 02:58 AM
Originally posted by Chasiubao_Boy@Aug 20 2002, 07:12 PM
Answer to question 1: Yeah, I do want to be with multiple sexual partners. But our society emphasizes monogomy. And infidelity and cheating is frowned upon. I am open to the idea of an open marriage, but that too, is looked down upon. I guess my surroundings growing up also played a factor, since I grew up in a predominantly Latino neighborhood in Jackson Heights. And the pressure to have multiple sexual partners was immense, the whole Latin "machismo" concept. I was caught between the pubescent rampaging sexual urges and peer pressure from my friends versus the idea of fidelity and monogomy from my conservative Chinese parents. Was a very confusing time for me. I can't lie and say this hasn't played a factor in my dating patterns, today, because it definitely has.
but do you think that it would be correct to say that alot less women than men would want to have multiple sex partners?

i mean you can say yes and argue with darwinism and use as examples the harems, male-centered polygamy, etc etc. but a perfect counter-argument to that would be that these were instituded in patriarchal societies where women would not be allowed to have multiple sex partners.
I agree with you, most definitely. But, predominantly it's the males that instituted those rules. Because speaking strictly from a scientific point of view, it is to the male's benefit to do so. It's fucked up, in my opinion, but this is strictly speaking from a scientific viewpoint.

I mean if you look at most species and humans included, if you remember from your biology class that females are more selective in their choice of mates. You know the whole ritual of courtship to impress the female, etc etc. And biologically speaking, the female is generally more monogomous in that fact they have to carry the offspring for the full gestation period and the burden falls on the female to take care of the offspring and it's to the male's discretion whether he wanders off or not. Again, this is from the scientific point of view.

And then there's that whole bullshit of a double standard, where if a man sleeps with a lot of women, he's a stud. If a woman sleeps with a lot of men, she's a slut.
yeah what you're saying makes alot of sense. but i want to keep playing devil's advocate...

they being male instituted rules, in societies where females had little policy-making power, the fact that it was in the male's benefit to establish these rules doesn't preclude the possibility that it would be in the females' benefit, or both females and males' benefits, to establish rules that are contradictory to the rules that were established by males.

and how does gestation and taking care of the offsprings really relate to monogamy in the female? strictly speaking, the female only needs the same male for as long as the male needs the female for the sexual intercourse. she does not necessarily need the same male to provide food and protection for him. and if other males would refuse to provide food and protection for a woman who had sexual intercourse with a certain male, then again, we are under the male domination argument - which doesn't allow for the possibility that it would be just as beneficial for society to have rules that allow females to have multiple sex partners.

another thing. why do you think that there is pretty much an equal number of males to females in humankind (is it the same in most mammals)? wouldn't it be more beneficial for the continuation of the species to have more females than males? is it simply because we're restricted by having only 2 sex chromosomes?



<!--EDIT|SunWuKung|Aug 21 2002, 10:25 AM-->

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by amietron@Aug 21 2002, 08:27 AM
And I'll be sure to bring woot with me. Together, we're 33. Is that old enough for you?
i thought bunboy was 28? amie are you 5? :D

[deez nuts]

Originally posted by SunWuKung@Aug 21 2002, 03:16 PM

yeah what you're saying makes alot of sense. &nbsp;but i want to keep playing devil's advocate...

they being male instituted rules, in societies where females had little policy-making power, the fact that it was in the male's benefit to establish these rules doesn't preclude the possibility that it would be in the females' benefit, or both females and males' benefits, to establish rules that are contradictory to the rules that were established by males.

and how does gestation and taking care of the offsprings really relate to monogamy in the female? &nbsp;strictly speaking, the female only needs the same male for as long as the male needs the female for the sexual intercourse. &nbsp;she does not necessarily need the same male to provide food and protection for him. &nbsp;and if other males would refuse to provide food and protection for a woman who had sexual intercourse with a certain male, then again, we are under the male domination argument - which doesn't allow for the possibility that it would be just as beneficial for society to have rules that allow females to have multiple sex partners.

another thing. &nbsp;why do you think that there is pretty much an equal number of males to females in humankind (is it the same in most mammals)? &nbsp;wouldn't it be more beneficial for the continuation of the species to have more females than males? &nbsp;is it simply because we're restricted by having only 2 sex chromosomes?
Haha MK, you better take the LSAT and get yourself into Law School, you gonna make one hell of a lawyer. My head is spinning now.

You kinda lost me on the first paragraph. But, I think I got the gist of it. What you say makes sense. But overall, which gender does it favor the male or female? At its most extreme case, look at how women I treated in some Muslim cultures. I don't think it benefits the woman at all.

Answer to second paragraph. I see what you are saying there. But, if memory serves me correct, its the fact that the female has to carry the fetus for x amount of months and develops a maternal bond. I think studies has shown that the hormone oxytocin, plays a huge role in this bond. I think an animal behavior professor I had once said most males want multiple partners, but at the same time will not let other males come near his "harem." That is to ensure that his gene pool and his only will survive. The more progeny you have, the higher the chance. I mean from a scientific viewpoint, the female always wants the strongest, fastest, smartest and the most well off male of the bunch. I think that selectivity is due to the fact that her reproductive cycle is on a biological clock. Whereas the male's is not.

I mean, I'm not a Sociologist or Behavioral Psychologist. I was a Physiology and Biochemistry major in college, so your guess is just as good as mine, if not better. But you are right in saying that society has a big impact when all this is applied to human culture.


And I think when amietron said "I'll bring woot with me." I think she meant karizma. Took me awhile to figure out that woot = karizma. Haha that's funny, together we're 33, that's a new way of looking at things. So which one of ya's is not legal. I don't want my little brother to go to jail, here!

[artsfartsyjanet]

Originally posted by SunWuKung@Aug 21 2002, 10:16 AM
Chasiubao_Boy,Aug 21 2002, 06:50 AMyeah what you're saying makes alot of sense. but i want to keep playing devil's advocate...

they being male instituted rules, in societies where females had little policy-making power, the fact that it was in the male's benefit to establish these rules doesn't preclude the possibility that it would be in the females' benefit, or both females and males' benefits, to establish rules that are contradictory to the rules that were established by males.

and how does gestation and taking care of the offsprings really relate to monogamy in the female? strictly speaking, the female only needs the same male for as long as the male needs the female for the sexual intercourse. she does not necessarily need the same male to provide food and protection for him. and if other males would refuse to provide food and protection for a woman who had sexual intercourse with a certain male, then again, we are under the male domination argument - which doesn't allow for the possibility that it would be just as beneficial for society to have rules that allow females to have multiple sex partners.

another thing. why do you think that there is pretty much an equal number of males to females in humankind (is it the same in most mammals)? wouldn't it be more beneficial for the continuation of the species to have more females than males? is it simply because we're restricted by having only 2 sex chromosomes?
Dude, I need to read that over again. :D

[Faithless]

It's funny that brothels are legal in some states and illegal in others. If that aint a mixed message. :confused:

[ChinaLama]

I was just thinking-- is there qualitative difference between pornstars and prostitutes? I mean they're basically both selling sex for a living.

So until I'm convinced pornstars are qualitatively morally superior to prostitutes, I'm gonna try to be tolerant of prostitution.

[mr. x]

just curious, was angelnympho some person attempting to smear angel nympho's good name?

[Faithless]

Originally posted by ChinaLama@Jun 5 2003, 05:22 PM
I was just thinking-- is there qualitative difference between pornstars and prostitutes? I mean they're basically both selling sex for a living.

So until I'm convinced pornstars are qualitatively morally superior to prostitutes, I'm gonna try to be tolerant of prostitution.
Sometimes they are one in the same. :ph34r: And they may make guest appearances in Nevada, say. So I have read. <_<

[deez nuts]

sure why not.

a girl's gotta eat.

what's the big deal?

[sOKaLiBoY]

i see nothing wrong with it. if she wants to have sex for money then it's all good. men wanna pay and certain women wanna give it up. however i'd never be that desperate to pay for sex.

[kboy75]

Originally posted by Hello_Hapa@Aug 20 2002, 10:46 PM
Originally posted by artsfartsyjanet@Aug 20 2002, 07:12 PM

After reading boycott's post, I would see how you would not feel the need to justify yourself in light of his argument.&nbsp; However, what are your views on prostitution?&nbsp; In fact, how do other women on YW view prostitution?&nbsp; &nbsp; I would talk about my views, but I'm just too lazy to write about it at this moment.
Sorry, J. I was too peeved to fully read what you wrote.

I'm of two minds on prostitution. I used to be 100% against the sex industry across the board. I equated stripping and porn, anything flesh related really, to oppressive patriarchal exploitation and sin in general.

Then two things happened. My sister came out to me and I traveled to Europe. Since my sister has come out as a lesbian I have become more aware of how sexuality functions outside of male-dominant hetero culture. Some porn is made by women for women and there is a sex-positive slant to it. Women's sexuality is not just cotton candy fluff for men only. We're sexual beings and that expression shouldn't be set aside as taboo and dirty.

Then, Europe. For me it was a really eye opening experience to walk around Amsterdam where there are prostitutes, sex shows, sex museums, porn EVERYWHERE. Even the Chamber of Commerce had approved and rated escort services in the Yellow Pages. Truthfully it made me feel funny to have parents walk around with their children when there were porn posters (and we're talking some beastiality) plastered all over the windows. But I figured, I'm a foreigner there so I better not judge.

I really think there are some women who choose sex as an open and positive expression, even to the point of making money off of it. But I think the average women in prostitution is driven to it out of total desperation and exploited by a man who is willing to coldheartedly peddle her flesh. I think before we could really unpack and examine the issue of prostitution we would first have to eradicate the idea of labeling sexual women as sluts.
i agree with this post.

in reality, most prostitues are driven by desperation or are in far too deep to back out w/o any real help.

places like vegas and amsterdam, where things are legal and regulated, do not give an accurate picture of this issue as a whole.

as to whether there is something inherently wrong with (straight female) prostitution in and of itself... no, i don't think there is, BUT... there are consequences for what you do. And in this case the consequences can come in the forms of emotional baggage, mental stress, violence, and disease...

[Tao]

to quote the comedic genius George Carlin:

"I don't understand why prostitution isn't legal. Selling's legal, fucking's legal....why isn't selling fucking legal? Out of all the things you can do to a person, giving them an orgasm is hardly the worst."

ah george...he's my hero :lol:

[artsfartsyjanet]

If you hypothetically had a daughter, how would you react if you discovered that she was a prostitute? Would you oppose it if she were a minor? How about if she were an adult?

[sOKaLiBoY]

Originally posted by artsfartsyjanet@Jun 6 2003, 09:46 AM
If you hypothetically had a daughter, how would you react if you discovered that she was a prostitute? Would you oppose it if she were a minor? How about if she were an adult?
if she was a minor then i would have a problem with it. however if she was legal then it's up to her to decide what she wants to do. i would like to raise my daughter/son as well as i can. but i can't control what they decide to do.

[Faithless]

Originally posted by artsfartsyjanet@Jun 6 2003, 08:46 AM
If you hypothetically had a daughter, how would you react if you discovered that she was a prostitute? Would you oppose it if she were a minor? How about if she were an adult?
That's a good question. Prostitution is for other people's kids. :rolleyes:

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by artsfartsyjanet@Jun 6 2003, 12:46 PM
If you hypothetically had a daughter, how would you react if you discovered that she was a prostitute? Would you oppose it if she were a minor? How about if she were an adult?
i would not want my daughter to be a prostitute.

however, most women in this world are not my daughters. and under your analogy, men would be averse to having any sex at all.

"if you hypothetically had a son, how would you react if he was having sex with you?"

[mr. x]

of course id wanna give my daughter some space but i would NOT let her be a hooker, i dont care if i have to lock her in her room and bar her windows...

[ChinaLama]

the hypothetical daughter thing proly doesn't matter cuz how many of us will be able to control our kids when they make a career decision?

[Faithless]

Originally posted by ChinaLama@Jun 8 2003, 05:15 AM
the hypothetical daughter thing proly doesn't matter cuz how many of us will be able to control our kids when they make a career decision?
If you bring 'em up right, they won't have to find a career in the oldest profession in the world.

How often do rich or middle class women go into prostitution, anyway?

[deez nuts]

Originally posted by ChottoMatte@Jun 8 2003, 02:51 PM
If you bring 'em up right, they won't have to find a career in the oldest profession in the world.

How often do rich or middle class women go into prostitution, anyway?
they're smarter in that they make into a corperation a la heidi fleiss!

[Napoleon Chynamite]

Well regarding the whole daughter/hooker thing, I wouldn't want my son or daughter to forge a career as a custodian for the local high school, or as a worker at a meat-packaging plant either, but that doesn't mean I'm against those occupations in our society. Although of course, arguably these two occupations are more necessary and practical than fulfilling the libidos of sex-starved individuals for a price. But I guess the point is that I would have much higher expectations of my kids.

[Napoleon Chynamite]

Originally posted by ChottoMatte@Jun 8 2003, 11:51 AM
If you bring 'em up right, they won't have to find a career in the oldest profession in the world.

How often do rich or middle class women go into prostitution, anyway?
Rich or middle class women may not have as much of a tendency to resort to prostitution in the strictest sense (offering sex or sexual services for money), but there are plenty of other ways to be 'whores' or 'whorish' these days in my opinion, and it's not restricted to females either. I use the word 'whore' freely to describe those who are shameless in their actions or duties and willing to disregard or foresake their formerly established moral framework for the sake of achieving monetary gain or money.

[Faithless]

That being the case -- that the rich or middle class don't need to resort to prostitution, are we just exploiting the poor who do go into prostition? Or is this some odd form of charity?

[ChinaLama]

Originally posted by ChottoMatte@Jun 8 2003, 07:51 PM
If you bring 'em up right, they won't have to find a career in the oldest profession in the world.

How often do rich or middle class women go into prostitution, anyway?
Even if you're the perfect parent and follow all of Dr. Spock's rules, sometimes your kids will still turn out "wrong," although I don't want to use that word. Also, if prostitution were less stigmatized in society, then it wouldn't be such a bad profession and there may be a significant # of middle class or even rich people doing it. In fact, many prostitutes are middle to upper middle class or even rich; they're called escorts. :)

[Faithless]

Originally posted by ChinaLama@Jun 8 2003, 02:15 PM
Originally posted by ChottoMatte@Jun 8 2003, 07:51 PM
If you bring 'em up right, they won't have to find a career in the oldest profession in the world.

How often do rich or middle class women go into prostitution, anyway?
Even if you're the perfect parent and follow all of Dr. Spock's rules, sometimes your kids will still turn out "wrong," although I don't want to use that word. Also, if prostitution were less stigmatized in society, then it wouldn't be such a bad profession and there may be a significant # of middle class or even rich people doing it. In fact, many prostitutes are middle to upper middle class or even rich; they're called escorts. :)
Hm, escorts as rich or middle class. Don't know the demographics, but they may end-up that way by income and lifestyle, but have to wonder if their up bringing is that way.

To the argument: would you want your daughter to do that?

I guess the counter to that would be: I wouldn't want my daughter to be a construction laborer, but that doesn't necessarily mean that other women can't do it.

[mr. x]

speaking of high class call girls (thats an oxymoron if i ever saw one) why do women like Heidi Fleiss command so much attention when they aint much of a looker? i mean these celebs who purchase their services im sure could get much better looking women

[angel nympho]

Just because I wouldn't WANT my daughter to do something doesn't mean she shouldn't have the right to do it.

[nonamerasian]

is there anything inherently wrong with prostitution?

I'm not sure if it is inherently wrong, but I have my biases.

Are there women who actually want to be prostitutes?

I'm used to seeing the "industry" as a form of slavery where people are sold under the bondage of circumstance.

I see something wrong or at least upsetting about that.

Perhaps my opinion would be more clear cut iif most prostitutes did their thing for the love of it or whatever. I find nothing inherently wrong with that.

I guess I don't see prositution as inherently wrong in theory.

[Yeahman]

It certainly is a degrading profession. But people should have the right to sell their self-dignity.

[younggiftedandblack]

It certainly is a degrading profession. But people should have the right to sell their self-dignity.

It's no more degrading then any other labor job.

[Kuchana]

I'm not sure if it is inherently wrong, but I have my biases.

Are there women who actually want to be prostitutes?

I'm used to seeing the "industry" as a form of slavery where people are sold under the bondage of circumstance.

I see something wrong or at least upsetting about that.

Perhaps my opinion would be more clear cut iif most prostitutes did their thing for the love of it or whatever. I find nothing inherently wrong with that.

I guess I don't see prositution as inherently wrong in theory.

So do I. I don't agree with it but if people choose to follow that route then so be it.

I once had a roomie who was a stripper and she was married to boot. But that didn't stop her from having bfs and sex for that matter. I saw something very inherently wrong with that.

[kuilong]

It certainly is a degrading profession. But people should have the right to sell their self-dignity.

It's coming to be quite a respectable profession in Western Europe. I understand in the Netherlands prostitutes are unionized, and advertize openly.

In fact, I suspect a lot of the social ills that surround it in the US are because it's illegal, not the other way round. There are also plenty of health advantages to having prostitution as a legal and regulated profession.

Whoah, this topic is old.

[Yeahman]

It's no more degrading then any other labor job.
Would you rather work as a manicurist or a prostitute?

[SunWuKong]

It's no more degrading then any other labor job.

depends on the situation. if you have to be a prostitute because that's the only profession available to you, then yeah, i'd say that's degrading.

[Yeahman]

It's coming to be quite a respectable profession in Western Europe. I understand in the Netherlands prostitutes are unionized, and advertize openly.

In fact, I suspect a lot of the social ills that surround it in the US are because it's illegal, not the other way round. There are also plenty of health advantages to having prostitution as a legal and regulated profession.

Whoah, this topic is old.
Striping is legal. I'd say that that's a pretty degrading profession too.

[holybull101]

Prostitution needs to be legalized. It would bring rates down and open the door for many young women to pursue a career in this field.

[Kuchana]

Prostitution needs to be legalized. It would bring rates down and open the door for many young women to pursue a career in this field.

WTH?!

[hooligan]

i think the solution to prostitution isn't as simple as just legalizing it. in essence, you're basically commodifying a woman's worth. when you take something like sex and commodify it for capitalistic consumption you're one step away from selling people.

you've got to look at the fact that there are a lot more women than men who are prostitutes and the fact that the "buyers" or more appropriately the "users" are men. it speaks toward the horrible patriarchy that we live in and how it commodifies women.

[SunWuKong]

i think the solution to prostitution isn't as simple as just legalizing it. in essence, you're basically commodifying a woman's worth. when you take something like sex and commodify it for capitalistic consumption you're one step away from selling people.

i agree that the solution isn't as simple as legalisation, even though i do think prostitution should be legalised - not so that more women can join the field, but because it would become a regulated and safer profession.

i disagree that a woman selling sex is commodifying her "worth". the mere practice of selling your labour is commodifying a person's worth, and that's exactly how a capitalistic system works. why must a factory worker do what his boss says and why does his boss have the power to say that he would be out of a job if his boss so chooses to fire him? the mere practice of selling a person's labour already dehumanises him to only a measure of production. it is no different with prostitution. it is the sale of a service.

you've got to look at the fact that there are a lot more women than men who are prostitutes and the fact that the "buyers" or more appropriately the "users" are men. it speaks toward the horrible patriarchy that we live in and how it commodifies women.

i see this more as that men are much more likely to pay for sex than women are. you can't exactly erase the gender line so conveniently here. men and women are, in fact, different, and they want different things, especially when it comes to sex.

[Jeff Yu :)]

i think the solution to prostitution isn't as simple as just legalizing it. in essence, you're basically commodifying a woman's worth. when you take something like sex and commodify it for capitalistic consumption you're one step away from selling people.

you've got to look at the fact that there are a lot more women than men who are prostitutes and the fact that the "buyers" or more appropriately the "users" are men. it speaks toward the horrible patriarchy that we live in and how it commodifies women.

I believe the argument for legalized prostitution goes something like this:

You may not agree with prostitution, or even necessarily think it's an acceptable lifestyle or moral choice. But, the prostitution is the oldest profession, and illegalizing it hasn't made it go away. By making it legal, you can at least regulate it and control it, so to make the quality of life better for prostitutes. You can regulate to make condom use and regular disease checks mandatory to slow down the use of AIDs, and since it's legal, prostitutes who get raped, or abused by their pimps now have legal recourse and police to turn to. Young women who get kicked out of their homes and need to turn to sex for a living will now have options to join regulated brothels with decent working conditions, instead of takign their chances with a street pimp who keeps her coked up. No, I wouldn't want my daughter to be a prostitute, but there are going to be prostitutes out there no matter what, and we can at least make sure they practice it in the safest way possible.

[SunWuKong]

and then there's also the libertarian view of it - it doesn't infringe on another's rights, so it shouldn't be illegal.

[mr. x]

Prostitution needs to be legalized. It would bring rates down and open the door for many young women to pursue a career in this field.

can you say "white man"? :rolleyes:

[PropellerheadCP]

There was a lady in my thesis class, who was once a prostitute. She had to do it, starting when she was 13 years old. Although she's a grandmother now, she still remembers the hell that she went through. It was her only means of survival at the time (she was an orphan who was brought into abusive homes, time and time again).

I find it a little disturbing when we start taking a fews steps back and consider prostitution as a profession. It's something that some people have to do, in order to survival and it's terrifyingly dangerous. Unfortunately, much of society looks down upon prostitutes as very "base", and refuse to care about them as human beings. Every year, women disappear and no one seems to be concerned about that, simply because they (the prostitutes) do what that have to do. In fact, some would consider that a good thing, like dirt under a rug, that has been forgotten.

No, I really would not want to see the legalization of prostitution... rather, I'd want to see a utopian world where selling one's body won't be necessary at all. However, since it doesn't look like it's going to happen, any time soon, perhaps legalization and regulation would at least help makes things a little safer. I mean, if pornography is legal, then I don't see too many differences, in regards to the way the people are making their money.

[hooligan]

i think what you're missing out on swk, is the fact that mainly women are doing it. how do you go about explaining the skewed amount of women vs. men? don't give me any, it's just the way it is kind of bs because that's a horrible argument.

[missmeow]

You've never been to a gay area, I take it.

[hooligan]

You've never been to a gay area, I take it.haha! i'm sure there are men who are prostitutes, but it's still men buying!

[SunWuKong]

i think what you're missing out on swk, is the fact that mainly women are doing it. how do you go about explaining the skewed amount of women vs. men? don't give me any, it's just the way it is kind of bs because that's a horrible argument.

like i said, men are much more likely to pay for sex than women are, so the demand for female prostitutes is greater. it's simple supply and demand. a psychologist even wrote a book (i forgot what her name is) about how women needs emotional intimacy before physical intimacy, and men needs physical intimacy before emotional intimacy. women aren't buying sex as much not because they don't have the money, but because they don't desire it as much. if the demand was great enough, there would be a greater and cheaper supply of male prostitutes.

[ronin]

...women needs emotional intimacy before physical intimacy, and men needs physical intimacy before emotional intimacy...


i guess that's why men will spend $100's on a weekend going to strip clubs and getting hookers, where as a woman will spend $100's at restaurant so she can have a 'meaningful conversation' (and both the guy and the girl go home sexless).

[ChinaLama]

everyone has a price. prostitutes are more honest about it.

[Jeff Yu :)]

and then there's also the libertarian view of it - it doesn't infringe on another's rights, so it shouldn't be illegal.

I disagree with the libertarian viewpoint on it, though. Libertarians believe that anything not harmful should be legal and unregulated. and minimal government intervention. I would advocate legalized prositution for the reason that legal safeguards and regulations could be put in place to protect the workers.

[SunWuKong]

I disagree with the libertarian viewpoint on it, though. Libertarians believe that anything not harmful should be legal and unregulated. and minimal government intervention. I would advocate legalized prositution for the reason that legal safeguards and regulations could be put in place to protect the workers.

i agree with you.

but from a Libertarian perspective, the people and government would place the trust in the businesses that operate the prostitution to protect the workers.

[hooligan]

like i said, men are much more likely to pay for sex than women are, so the demand for female prostitutes is greater. it's simple supply and demand. a psychologist even wrote a book (i forgot what her name is) about how women needs emotional intimacy before physical intimacy, and men needs physical intimacy before emotional intimacy. women aren't buying sex as much not because they don't have the money, but because they don't desire it as much. if the demand was great enough, there would be a greater and cheaper supply of male prostitutes.
i'm thinking more on the patriarch society and inherent sexism that exists in this country that influence women into this line of work. the same with strip bars, etc. i mean, even saying women experience sex/love different than men just reinforces the sexist nature of our society.

[SunWuKong]

i'm thinking more on the patriarch society and inherent sexism that exists in this country that influence women into this line of work. the same with strip bars, etc. i mean, even saying women experience sex/love different than men just reinforces the sexist nature of our society.

maybe we just have different definition of what sexism is then. i don't really consider it sexism the mere fact that men are less emotionally attached to sexual acts than women are. it's just one of the differences between men and women.

and again, i think more women are in that line of work because there's more demand for it than their male counterparts.

[hooligan]

maybe we just have different definition of what sexism is then. i don't really consider it sexism the mere fact that men are less emotionally attached to sexual acts than women are. it's just one of the differences between men and women.

and again, i think more women are in that line of work because there's more demand for it than their male counterparts.
yeah, swk :P we have a different definition of everything. i'm just questioning why there are so many women in the work of prostitution. i know plenty of women who are just as physically attracted to whomever as there are men.

[SunWuKong]

i'm just questioning why there are so many women in the work of prostitution.

like i said - supply and demand. the greater the demand, the greater and cheaper the supply.

[nola]

yeah, swk :P we have a different definition of everything. i'm just questioning why there are so many women in the work of prostitution. i know plenty of women who are just as physically attracted to whomever as there are men.



Women need the money, often desperately. Men need the sex, often desperately.

[younggiftedandblack]

like i said - supply and demand. the greater the demand, the greater and cheaper the supply.

I kinda disagree with that. In this case in places where the supply is greater then the demand then the price is cheaper.

[hooligan]

Women need the money, often desperately. Men need the sex, often desperately.
lol. i know, i was just raising the question why we have more men who buy sex. while the sociological reasoning that swk provided suffices for some, i don't buy it. i don't believe that women and men are that different, rather we've been lead to believe "that's how women and men are" by the society we live in.

i was just hoping people would raise questions concerning this disparity.

[SunWuKong]

while the sociological reasoning that swk provided suffices for some, i don't buy it. i don't believe that women and men are that different, rather we've been lead to believe "that's how women and men are" by the society we live in.

well, i suppose there could be other reasons that cause a significant lower demand for male hetero prostitutes than a demand for female hetero prostitutes. maybe women just don't buy sex as much as men because society looks down on women doing it more so than men doing it.

[Faithless]

Even Berkeley could not bring themselves to support legalized prostitution.

http://www.dailycal.org/article.php?id=15319
City Council Delays Prostitution Resolution

The Berkeley City Council Tuesday held back on approving a resolution calling on the state to decriminalize prostitution, pointing to public health and safety concerns that could arise if prostitution goes unregulated.

Instead, the council voted to send the resolution to the city’s Commission on the Status of Women, requesting that it rework the resolution to call on the state to legalize rather than decriminalize prostitution.

Although most council members agreed on the spirit of the resolution—that the state’s laws are doing more to hurt prostitutes than rid city streets of crime—many said that decriminalization would be too broad and leave the state powerless to regulate prostitution.

Legalization, on the other hand, would allow the state to regularly test prostitutes for sexually transmitted diseases, said Mayor Tom Bates.

Councilmember Margaret Breland said that decriminalizing prostitution would do nothing more than bring more pimps and prostitutes to Berkeley.

“The pimps are bringing (prostitutes) into the area in carloads,” Breland said.

But Councilmember Dona Spring, who wrote the resolution, said that the council’s action Tuesday night makes her doubt whether it will actually end up supporting any resolution once it comes back from the Commission on the Status of Women.

In order to legalize prostitution, decriminalization is the first step, Spring said.