never doing this again

[SunWuKong]

i'm never taking any indian people or white people to korean bbq anymore. i took an indian colleague and a white colleague to korean bbq today and all that they did was complain about how the food was not cooked when it was just right. the indian guy was especially bad. he held up a piece of chicken that was black on the outside and white on the inside and said that it's not cooked. fucking annoying.

[thaite]

Yeah, it's difficult getting people to try stuff. Most of the time I don't even bother anymore, as well.

I recently went to a banquet at a very nice Chinese restaurant. Sat with a bunch of whitebreads (that is, white folk who are not culturally experienced or open, as opposed to those who are) and all I heard was "I don't think I can eat this" or "This fish is staring at me" and blah blah blah. And this wasn't even a very exotic meal; chow mein, sweet/sour fish, egg drop soup, honey mayo shrimp, stir fry veggies w/ tofu -- the standard stuff.

I'm with ya, SWK.

[sOKaLiBoY]

some people just don't know what good food is. what is worse is that they won't even give it a chance. mmm i could go for some bbq right now

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by thaite@Apr 29 2003, 02:38 PM
And this wasn't even a very exotic meal; chow mein, sweet/sour fish, egg drop soup, honey mayo shrimp, stir fry veggies w/ tofu -- the standard stuff.
hell that sounds like americanised chinese food. sweet and sour fish?
i'm surprised those people reacted the way they did.
but anyway, yeah, this is exactly why there are americanised chinese restaurants, and authentic chinese restaurants. because we know that the average white people won't like the authentic food that we eat.

[bigwong235]

i don't really mind it if people try SOME things but not other, more exotic stuff. if they straight up say to me, "no thanks," then it's no big thing. what i DO hate is when people try something and then say, "oh man that's so good!" and then continue eating everything else but that, or eat around it and leave the majority of it on their plate. later, they tell their friends that, "oh, we went to this chinese place and ordered this stuff that was really good! you have to try it next time!" so they can look like they're open to new things and super hip. it frustrates me to no end!!!! :pissed:

[ChinaLama]

whatevers yo, more korean bbq for you, dude.

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by ChinaLama@Apr 29 2003, 03:53 PM
whatevers yo, more korean bbq for you, dude.
yeah hahah. i ended up eating a lot more than they did because i ate it as soon as it was cooked, instead of waiting for it to be burnt.

[VV o n g B a]

its really annoying to me when i meet asian americans who act like this. time to end my stereotype that asians will necessarily be more open to trying food from their own culture...

[deez nuts]

Originally posted by SunWuKung@Apr 29 2003, 01:21 PM
the indian guy was especially bad. he held up a piece of chicken that was black on the outside and white on the inside and said that it's not cooked. fucking annoying.
it's ironic coming from an indian guy.

your collegues are idiots.

[applehead]

why is it ironic coming from an indian guy?

mmmm... i'm craving for indian food...

[thaite]

Originally posted by VV o n g B a@Apr 29 2003, 01:12 PM
its really annoying to me when i meet asian americans who act like this. time to end my stereotype that asians will necessarily be more open to trying food from their own culture...
I don't know what you mean.

If it's food, I'll pretty much give it a shot -- don't care which culture it comes from.

[Chester]

I flat-out refuse to eat at Chinese restaurants with non-Chinese friends. They always expect me to order and I have to remind them, "Dudes: first of all, I'm not taking responsibility for your gustatory happiness and, second of all, my food vocabulary sucks ass -- I just eat what my parents order."

It doesn't help that a good number of them actually enjoy shitholes like P.F. Chang's, where they've dragged me a few times.

One time, I made the concession of taking a good-sized group to the Milpitas ABC and even talked to my parents' favorite head-waiter to figure out a menu. It wasn't an exotic meal, but it wasn't a General Tso's sort of meal either.

Their consensus?: food was kind of bland.

Whatever. I give up. Absolutely no Chinese restaurants with my gwei-lo friends. It's a thankless thing: I have to do all the work and then shoulder all the blame. Or I have to put up with kiddie dishes that could be had at any Americanized joint. They don't need me along to order kung pao chicken, prawns and candied walnuts, orange peel beef, and lettuce cups.

And so the dinner proposal for Friday is Catalan.

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by Chester@Apr 29 2003, 05:51 PM
It doesn't help that a good number of them actually enjoy shitholes like P.F. Chang's, where they've dragged me a few times.
:gross: :gross: :gross:

[VV o n g B a]

Originally posted by thaite@Apr 29 2003, 04:00 PM
I don't know what you mean.

If it's food, I'll pretty much give it a shot -- don't care which culture it comes from.
i mean chinese kids who won't eat chinese food cuz its too exotic.

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by VV o n g B a@Apr 29 2003, 07:08 PM
Originally posted by thaite@Apr 29 2003, 04:00 PM
I don't know what you mean.

If it's food, I'll pretty much give it a shot -- don't care which culture it comes from.
i mean chinese kids who won't eat chinese food cuz its too exotic.
yup. white-washed ABCs.

[thaite]

Oh. Didn't know there were any of those. That is messed up.

[tvbdude]

they have P.F. chang's in other places too? ok...

and yea, I will never bring non asian friends to chinese restaurants.

[Adaon]

What I never realized was that there were ABAs (asians born asians) that were so whitewashed out on the west coast that absolutely DO NOT eat asian food in anyway.....not that it's my place to judge, but it makes me feel a bit down. Can't explain why.

[Hanuman]

I took a friend of mine to a thai restuarant once and it was pretty annoying. He was nit picky about all the food and ended up eating none of it. My asian friends usually are more adventurous and can eat most anything. My non-asian friends think eggrolls and general tsaos chicken is exotic.

[himura-dono]

Originally posted by thaite@Apr 29 2003, 10:38 AM
"This fish is staring at me"
tell em to eat the eyes then...if they get squeamish, eat it or for better shock value suck em out.

as for the korean bbq place...maybe the two 'tards are used to overcooked (stewed into oblivion) or dry as a bone chicken?

i dunno, it just seems like you took two very big food bigots with ya. say i went to a restaurant, i'll eat anything they serve (except for my run-in with uni at a japanese place). i like food. i like experience. people gotta enjoy everything [except uni]. :rolleyes:

and aside from that, i have a friend who will drink bird's nest, but won't eat the starch balls in his tap drinks. he's says THOSE are gross... bird spit...starch....hmm....

[Fireblade]

Originally posted by Adaon@Apr 29 2003, 10:19 PM
What I never realized was that there were ABAs (asians born asians) that were so whitewashed out on the west coast that absolutely DO NOT eat asian food in anyway.....not that it's my place to judge, but it makes me feel a bit down. Can't explain why.
They probably despise themselves and need to force-fed honey-walnut prawns. Oh lord, now I'm drooling.... :blink:

[lethal]

I took a Latina friend to Korean BBQ once...it was an interesting experience, but I told her not to ask questions about what she was eating, so it turned out OK.

Ignorance is bliss I suppose.

[Adaon]

Originally posted by himura-dono@Apr 30 2003, 08:33 AM
people gotta enjoy everything [except uni]. :rolleyes:

and aside from that, i have a friend who will drink bird's nest, but won't eat the starch balls in his tap drinks. he's says THOSE are gross... bird spit...starch....hmm....
true that, my pasty skinned friend :lol:

Maybe your friend was traumatized by a bad tapioca experience? I almost gave up on tapioca at one point as well......sometimes the consistance was too hard (like biting through a rubber super bouncy ball or) or too mush (the damned things were melting apart in the straw and left globs all over......great ammo to spit at people through a straw, but not good to eat...)

[MellowDrama]

I usually eat alone. :lol:

[thaite]

I drink alone.

YEAAHHH, with nobody else...

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by himura-dono@Apr 30 2003, 12:33 PM
i dunno, it just seems like you took two very big food bigots with ya. say i went to a restaurant, i'll eat anything they serve (except for my run-in with uni at a japanese place). i like food. i like experience. people gotta enjoy everything [except uni]. :rolleyes:
yeah i know. i was just exaggerating because i was pissed/annoyed. :)

[luv]

Well, some people can be very tough to please. Its funny, once I went to a banquet and sat at the "groom's friends" table. The table was about 3 chinese and 7 non-chinese. The non-chinese basically skipped over the seafood and cleaned out all of the noodles and fried rice that came at the end of the meal.

[AngryABCGirl]

WTF is PF Changs? I remember I saw one once at a shopping mall in a very white area, and that just scared me away cause the food must suck. Not true of all Asian restaurants, but most just aren't very good without competition.

God I hope there aren't actually ABCs like that...

I always thought one of the great blessings about being an ABC is that I am up to eat almost everything (there's no way you're gonna get me to eat spiders or something if that even exists) from anywhere.

[angel nympho]

My boyfriend likes all the crazy weird authentic food WAY more than I do.

There's this one Taiwanese family who always cooks dinners for him that he slurps up with joy. He's eaten dog. He's the one who drags ME to Korean food places.

[angel nympho]

Originally posted by AzNBuffGrL@May 1 2003, 12:32 AM
WTF is PF Changs? I remember I saw one once at a shopping mall in a very white area, and that just scared me away cause the food must suck.
The food's not bad. It's just not Chinese. That doesn't mean it has to be bad.

[himura-dono]

Originally posted by AzNBuffGrL@Apr 30 2003, 04:32 PM
WTF is PF Changs? I remember I saw one once at a shopping mall in a very white area, and that just scared me away cause the food must suck. Not true of all Asian restaurants, but most just aren't very good without competition.

God I hope there aren't actually ABCs like that...

I always thought one of the great blessings about being an ABC is that I am up to eat almost everything (there's no way you're gonna get me to eat spiders or something if that even exists) from anywhere.
not even tarantuala's? :(

[Chester]

Originally posted by angel nympho@Apr 30 2003, 04:50 PM
The food's not bad. It's just not Chinese. That doesn't mean it has to be bad.
True, but still: everything you could get there could be had at most any Americanized joint for less money. And you wouldn't have to put up with the corniness of P.F. Chang's...i.e., that absurd little "special sauce" ritual that the waiters are trained to perform there.

Anyway, yeah, in the end, my main objection to it isn't truly food based. It's more about my annoyance at a place that appropriates Chinese culture and cuisine, then dilutes it in order to pander to the tastes of the ignorant and unadventurous.

Of course, I've been known to eat at Taco Bell...

[angel nympho]

Originally posted by Chester@May 1 2003, 01:16 AM
True, but still: everything you could get there could be had at most any Americanized joint for less money. And you wouldn't have to put up with the corniness of P.F. Chang's...i.e., that absurd little "special sauce" ritual that the waiters are trained to perform there.

Anyway, yeah, in the end, my main objection to it isn't truly food based. It's more about my annoyance at a place that appropriates Chinese culture and cuisine, then dilutes it in order to pander to the tastes of the ignorant and unadventurous.

Of course, I've been known to eat at Taco Bell...
PF Chang's IS an Americanized joint. What are you thinking of? I've been in there several times and didn't see anything about the restaurant appropriating Chinese culture..... ?!?

[purezero]

Originally posted by himura-dono@Apr 30 2003, 09:33 AM
tell em to eat the eyes then...if they get squeamish, eat it or for better shock value suck em out.
I heard that makes your skin softer... or was that the cheek part of the fish? I don't remember.

Haha. My parents told me if I were to ever marry non-Asians (or really white-washed Asians) that I should take them out to eat dim sum and order stuff like "foeng jow." Oh man. Love that stuff. :lol:

[kayla]

Originally posted by ti12amisu@Apr 30 2003, 05:56 PM
Haha. My parents told me if I were to ever marry non-Asians (or really white-washed Asians) that I should take them out to eat dim sum and order stuff like "foeng jow." Oh man. Love that stuff. :lol:
mmm..chicken feet! even better with the red vinegar. how do they make it so white? are they bleached or something? cuz if they are, i dont think i would care. just curious.

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by AzNBuffGrL@Apr 30 2003, 08:32 PM
WTF is PF Changs? I remember I saw one once at a shopping mall in a very white area, and that just scared me away cause the food must suck. Not true of all Asian restaurants, but most just aren't very good without competition.

it's one of those "asian restaurants" where you can order mediocre to bad food of a variety of asian origin. they pretty much depend on decor and average-american ignorance of asian foods to make their money. i think pf chang's food is neither good or bad. it's just very over-priced for its quality.

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by Chester@Apr 30 2003, 09:16 PM
True, but still: everything you could get there could be had at most any Americanized joint for less money. And you wouldn't have to put up with the corniness of P.F. Chang's...i.e., that absurd little "special sauce" ritual that the waiters are trained to perform there.

Anyway, yeah, in the end, my main objection to it isn't truly food based. It's more about my annoyance at a place that appropriates Chinese culture and cuisine, then dilutes it in order to pander to the tastes of the ignorant and unadventurous.

Of course, I've been known to eat at Taco Bell...
oh give me a break, like chinese owned americanised chinese restaurants haven't already been doing that for decades. probably even longer.

[rakovlam]

yup. white-washed ABCs

they're fine people, it's their loss if they don't like Cantonese, Taiwanese, Sze Chuan, or Shanghainese food.

Actually, some Westernized Chinese places are very good (and expensive). I went to Suzanna Woo's in Philadelphia and damn, that was good shit. Costs $200 for 6 though.

[rakovlam]

oh give me a break, like chinese owned americanised chinese restaurants haven't already been doing that for decades. probably even longer.

Over a century. Chop Suey was invented by Chinese restauranteurs in San Francisco during the late 19th century in order to please people who wanted their Chinese food quickly. And fortune cookies are invented in LA (not sure who invented them).

[Tao]

Originally posted by angel nympho@Apr 30 2003, 08:50 PM
My boyfriend likes all the crazy weird authentic food WAY more than I do.

There's this one Taiwanese family who always cooks dinners for him that he slurps up with joy. He's eaten dog. He's the one who drags ME to Korean food places.
that's a cool boyfriend. reminds me of one of my parents' friend's son. He's like that too.

[teaz0r]

Originally posted by rakovlam@May 1 2003, 10:15 AM

Over a century. Chop Suey was invented by Chinese restauranteurs in San Francisco during the late 19th century in order to please people who wanted their Chinese food quickly. And fortune cookies are invented in LA (not sure who invented them).
kasie's grandaddy invented chop suey.

[himura-dono]

Originally posted by Chester@Apr 30 2003, 05:16 PM
It's more about my annoyance at a place that appropriates Chinese culture and cuisine, then dilutes it in order to pander to the tastes of the ignorant and unadventurous.

no offense but this makes you sound like one of those born again chinese abc's. :unsure:

[himura-dono]

Originally posted by ti12amisu@Apr 30 2003, 05:56 PM
I heard that makes your skin softer... or was that the cheek part of the fish? I don't remember.

Haha. My parents told me if I were to ever marry non-Asians (or really white-washed Asians) that I should take them out to eat dim sum and order stuff like "foeng jow." Oh man. Love that stuff. :lol:

pheonix claws!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

i've told you i could eat a bowl in a sittting if i wasn't afraid of having a coronary.

[tommyhtown]

Taking non-Asians to eat Asian food is something that I don't relish in doing. I have tried a few times with friends from school and later people at work. I got similar response from my friends when I ordered fish at Chinese restaurant. They just want it fillet. Speaking of fish, the only way folks down here cook catfish is to deep-fry them. What a loss!

Taking my relatives to americanized asian restauranst or asian fusion places ain't no picnic either. One time, I took my mom and my aunt to a Japanese-fusion restaurant. They gave me a hard time about how crappy the food was and, of course, the check which I picked up, not them. *sigh*

[teaz0r]

i don't mind taking non asians
out. i just don't tell them what
the food is.

a favourite dish of mine is boat
noodles, where the soup is made
from pig's blood. so i just order it
for them. and they praise how
delish-us it is, then i tell them
it's pig blood soup. hehehe.

i also give them the benefit of
doubt that most people eww
before they try things, i've
been known to do it too.

ie. when i had to eat yak's
penis. so i just take it light
heartedly.

i don't care that they eww.
i sorta expect it from them
cuz i do eat weird shit. it's just
the ones that don't "eww"
take me by surprise, and it
sorta impresses me? how
they're willing to accept a
new culture and all that
stuff.

yeah.

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by pipSy@May 1 2003, 12:34 AM
i don't mind taking non asians
out. i just don't tell them what
the food is.

a favourite dish of mine is boat
noodles, where the soup is made
from pig's blood. so i just order it
for them. and they praise how
delish-us it is, then i tell them
it's pig blood soup. hehehe.

i also give them the benefit of
doubt that most people eww
before they try things, i've
been known to do it too.

ie. when i had to eat yak's
penis. so i just take it light
heartedly.

i don't care that they eww.
i sorta expect it from them
cuz i do eat weird shit. it's just
the ones that don't "eww"
take me by surprise, and it
sorta impresses me? how
they're willing to accept a
new culture and all that
stuff.

yeah.
well, they're also in thailand. they're probably more adventurous than white people in the US just because they're in thailand.

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by rakovlam@Apr 30 2003, 11:15 PM

Over a century. Chop Suey was invented by Chinese restauranteurs in San Francisco during the late 19th century in order to please people who wanted their Chinese food quickly. And fortune cookies are invented in LA (not sure who invented them).
actually it was invented in SF as a tourist attraction for Chinatown.

[himura-dono]

Originally posted by pipSy@Apr 30 2003, 08:34 PM
i don't mind taking non asians
out. i just don't tell them what
the food is.

a favourite dish of mine is boat
noodles, where the soup is made
from pig's blood. so i just order it
for them. and they praise how
delish-us it is, then i tell them
it's pig blood soup. hehehe.

i also give them the benefit of
doubt that most people eww
before they try things, i've
been known to do it too.

ie. when i had to eat yak's
penis. so i just take it light
heartedly.

i don't care that they eww.
i sorta expect it from them
cuz i do eat weird shit. it's just
the ones that don't "eww"
take me by surprise, and it
sorta impresses me? how
they're willing to accept a
new culture and all that
stuff.

yeah.
i haven't tried any soups made from pigs blood, that i know of and would definitely try, but i do love these chinese (i think it's only chinese) rice cakes that are made with porks blood and then cooked. those are really good.

[tommyhtown]

Originally posted by pipSy@Apr 30 2003, 08:34 PM
a favourite dish of mine is boat
noodles, where the soup is made
from pig's blood. so i just order it
for them. and they praise how
delish-us it is, then i tell them
it's pig blood soup. hehehe.
Aaaah, yeah boat noodles rock! Last time I had something almost as authentic as the one in Thailand was in LA at that place on Hollywood that was always so darn dark at night!

For those who don't know, it is basically similar to Pho. It's Thai style beef or pork noodles soup with animal blood in it. Yummy :lol:

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by himura-dono@May 1 2003, 01:29 AM
Originally posted by pipSy@Apr 30 2003, 08:34 PM
i don't mind taking non asians
out. i just don't tell them what
the food is.

a favourite dish of mine is boat
noodles, where the soup is made
from pig's blood. so i just order it
for them. and they praise how
delish-us it is, then i tell them
it's pig blood soup. hehehe.

i also give them the benefit of
doubt that most people eww
before they try things, i've
been known to do it too.

ie. when i had to eat yak's
penis. so i just take it light
heartedly.

i don't care that they eww.
i sorta expect it from them
cuz i do eat weird shit. it's just
the ones that don't "eww"
take me by surprise, and it
sorta impresses me? how
they're willing to accept a
new culture and all that
stuff.

yeah.
i haven't tried any soups made from pigs blood, that i know of and would definitely try, but i do love these chinese (i think it's only chinese) rice cakes that are made with porks blood and then cooked. those are really good.
i think filipino people have those too.

[AngryABCGirl]

Originally posted by SunWuKung@Apr 30 2003, 06:39 PM
Originally posted by AzNBuffGrL@Apr 30 2003, 08:32 PM
WTF is PF Changs?  I remember I saw one once at a shopping mall in a very white area, and that just scared me away cause the food must suck.  Not true of all Asian restaurants, but most just aren't very good without competition.

it's one of those "asian restaurants" where you can order mediocre to bad food of a variety of asian origin. they pretty much depend on decor and average-american ignorance of asian foods to make their money. i think pf chang's food is neither good or bad. it's just very over-priced for its quality.
I really don't like to eat at over-Americanized Chinese restaurants like PF Changs, I had to eat at a bunch of them when I was traveling because I have traveling companions who refuse to eat American food despite that fact that we'd be choosing between New England Seafood and PF Changs-style food.

I just don't like eating that stuff because I feel like I'm getting ripped off, and I know what it's really supposed to taste like, and that ain't it.

But I have to admit I love eating at Taiwanese-owned Japanese in the San Gabriel Valley, even though they taste quite different in comparsion to what I'd get in J-Town.

Just depends on what you know about how something tastes like.

[Chester]

Originally posted by angel nympho@Apr 30 2003, 05:46 PM
PF Chang's IS an Americanized joint. What are you thinking of? I've been in there several times and didn't see anything about the restaurant appropriating Chinese culture..... ?!?
The whole concept? P.F. Chang's isn't so much an Americanized Chinese joint, it's more like a Sinicized American joint. It's a public corporation with a uniformly non-Chinese set of officers, and the restaurants are generally staffed by non-Chinese waiters who have never been trained to understand the full spectrum of real Chinese food. They use Chinese food and culture as a motif in the same way that the Rainforest Cafe uses tropical jungles...with a corresponding level of ignorane.

Does the ownership/staff factor make P.F. Chang's inherently "bad"? No, not necessarily. I think it's bad because it's overpriced, certain aspects of the service are cheesy and poorly-executed, and despite all of that, one has to wait forever and a day to get a table. And you go through all this to receive food that is, at best, pleasantly competent. For those reasons, it sucks ass.

The fact that it appropriates Chinese culture and then dilutes it to the point of parody...that just makes it more annoying.

Consider the example of an Italian restaurant that is owned, operated, and staffed by non-Italians. Nothing wrong with that, but I think it's cheesy when you walk into an Italian place and there's the same old hackneyed Andrea Bocelli soundtrack going on, and the waiters don't know the difference between a Barbaresco and a Barolo. They shoot for different ambiances, but places like Buca di Beppo are close cousins to P.F. Chang's.

In my mind, an "Americanized joint" is a place that is owned and run by Chinese who have watered-down the food to suit Western palates. Do I have the same objections to their food that I have to P.F. Chang's? Yeah. But, as a group, they still tend to feel more "authentic," and also taste more authentic. The overall execution of high-end Americanized places tends to be much higher than at P.F. Chang's.

Which is why I don't see any reason for P.F. Chang's to exist, much less thrive. If you want real Chinese food, definitely don't go there. And if you want Americanized Chinese food, there are still better places to go.

[Chester]

Originally posted by himura-dono@Apr 30 2003, 07:29 PM
Originally posted by Chester@Apr 30 2003, 05:16 PM
It's more about my annoyance at a place that appropriates Chinese culture and cuisine, then dilutes it in order to pander to the tastes of the ignorant and unadventurous.

no offense but this makes you sound like one of those born again chinese abc's. :unsure:
Unsure? Maybe you should try asking before voicing a presumption.

Or not, I guess.

[Chester]

Originally posted by SunWuKung@Apr 30 2003, 06:41 PM
oh give me a break, like chinese owned americanised chinese restaurants haven't already been doing that for decades. probably even longer.
Doing what? Hiring a staff that is predominantly non-Chinese, knows nothing about Chinese food other than the clichés on their menu, and who come up to your table and unctiously declare that they're going to mix you a "special sauce," and then proceed to muddle together common table condiments as if they're doing something special and personalized?

For example, from their website:
"Our chefs are respectful of the culture and traditions that are behind the dishes they prepare. Working in a dramatic exhibition kitchen, they use Mandarin style wok cooking to prepare the dynamic menu."

What the fuck is "Mandarin style wok cooking"?

Or how about this gem?:
"P.F. Chang's cuisine is reflective of China's evolving culinary landscape."

If I ever came across a Chinese-owned/operated place that was this cheesy and disingenuous, I'd bitch about them too.

Give me a break.

I'll leave you with something to ponder: consider the difference between Vanilla Ice and M.C. Hammer.

[himura-dono]

Originally posted by Chester@May 1 2003, 11:06 AM
Originally posted by himura-dono@Apr 30 2003, 07:29 PM
Originally posted by Chester@Apr 30 2003, 05:16 PM
It's more about my annoyance at a place that appropriates Chinese culture and cuisine, then dilutes it in order to pander to the tastes of the ignorant and unadventurous.

no offense but this makes you sound like one of those born again chinese abc's. :unsure:
Unsure? Maybe you should try asking before voicing a presumption.

Or not, I guess.
actually, only the smilie is called unsure. i just felt that it looked much less offensive then :rolleyes:


but just for you, i'm sure :rolleyes:


:)

[Tao]

regardless of whether or not their food is good or not, the real question is if they disrespect chinese culture. and in this respect i'd have to say no, since it's not like they have a short "chinaman" as a mascot or anything. I mean if they wanna make diluted chinese food, that's their business.....serving the white majority "diversified" foods. Personally I agree with whoever said that their food is just as watered down as those chinese take-out places. And we don't seem to mind them "slaughtering" the chinese style. Why is that? Could it be because they're chinese, so that they become exempt of this criticism? Hell man, bad food is just bad food, as long as those lily-white yuppie business men don't cross the line of making the place a breeding ground for stereotypes, then i say just don't go there to eat, and quit taking people to go there.

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by Chester@May 1 2003, 03:17 PM
Doing what? Hiring a staff that is predominantly non-Chinese, knows nothing about Chinese food other than the clichés on their menu, and who come up to your table and unctiously declare that they're going to mix you a "special sauce," and then proceed to muddle together common table condiments as if they're doing something special and personalized?

For example, from their website:
"Our chefs are respectful of the culture and traditions that are behind the dishes they prepare. Working in a dramatic exhibition kitchen, they use Mandarin style wok cooking to prepare the dynamic menu."

What the fuck is "Mandarin style wok cooking"?

Or how about this gem?:
"P.F. Chang's cuisine is reflective of China's evolving culinary landscape."

If I ever came across a Chinese-owned/operated place that was this cheesy and disingenuous, I'd bitch about them too.

Give me a break.

I'll leave you with something to ponder: consider the difference between Vanilla Ice and M.C. Hammer.
don't give me that bullshit.

my parents owned and operated one of those americanised chinese restaurants for over 10 years. the only staff that were chinese were the cooks and my mother out at the counter. everybody else didn't know shit about chinese food beyond fried rice. you ask what the fuck is "mandarin style wok cooking", let me ask you this, what the hell is general tso's chicken? that shit is not chinese food. how's that different from a place like p.f. chang's? the food is the motherfucking same.

it was never about culture or authenticity. it was always about making money. and those americanised chinese restaurants have given many many chinese american families their livelihood. without them we'd still be coolies. fobs understand this perfectly. it's only the overly americanised chinese that have a problem understanding what those restaurants are about because they're so insecure about a lack of chinese culture in their lives that they think everything has to do with culture or race. when the reality is that they don't even know shit about their own culture, being so americanised.

what a fucking joke. the truth is, you're in no position to judge them. dumb-ass johk sing.

[Napoleon Chynamite]

Originally posted by SunWuKung@Apr 29 2003, 03:18 PM
Originally posted by VV o n g B a@Apr 29 2003, 07:08 PM
Originally posted by thaite@Apr 29 2003, 04:00 PM
I don't know what you mean.

If it's food, I'll pretty much give it a shot -- don't care which culture it comes from.
i mean chinese kids who won't eat chinese food cuz its too exotic.
yup. white-washed ABCs.
i'm a whitewashed abc but i'll eat anything. not all johk sing's are picky eaters :P

I dunno, i don't understand some people's animosity towards those who don't seem to care as much about their ethnic or cultural roots as others, as if these people are somehow disrespecting traitorous people full of neglect and ignorance. If you are born and raised in a white area at all-white schools or your parents were not too traditional (i.e. my situation), then it is fairly clear to me why certain people act and are the way they are. There are reasons why ABC's cannot understand where Chinese FOB's are coming from in many aspects but also vice versa. As I have mentioned before in one of my other thingies, I don't really worry about how I act or what I do and I don't stop to think as to 'hmm, is what i'm doing too white/Chinese?'. It was obvious to me long ago that there are many engrained traits within me that would be considered 'white' by YW standards or other standards but also other traits that some people would consider 'Asian' or 'Chinese' whether or not you think that there should be a label for these types of traits. Maybe as I get older, things will change, but right now I do not understand why I should feel obligated to learn more about my ethnic roots. The interest is there because it is something that my parents exposed me to when I was younger but obviously I did not actively or deeply pursue it. Ultimately however, my ethnic roots (and not Chinese culture or American white culture) did not make me who I am today. My unique upbringing did, even though my upbringing was influenced by my ethnicity's past history and the values and traditions included within.

Edit: I am not advocating the discarding or neglect of one's cultural background but frankly I feel that history is full of groups of people who discarded what they were before in order to adapt (I use this term neutrally and not to say it is positive or negative) to other conditions so that their lives might become easier. I don't see how choosing NOT to follow what your ancestors believed or did makes it any worse than choosing a different flavor of ice cream when everyone else chooses strawberry. Some would argue that a neglect of culture makes it more difficult for those who choose to stick to the culture to combat discrimination or generalizations due to lack of voice, but that I believe is not a good enough reason to justify some type of sacred law saying that you must keep what culture you have.

[Chester]

Originally posted by SunWuKung@May 1 2003, 12:40 PM
my parents owned and operated one of those americanised chinese restaurants for over 10 years. the only staff that were chinese were the cooks and my mother out at the counter. everybody else didn't know shit about chinese food beyond fried rice.

you ask what the fuck is "mandarin style wok cooking", let me ask you this, what the hell is general tso's chicken? that shit is not chinese food. how's that different from a place like p.f. chang's? the food is the motherfucking same.

it was never about culture or authenticity. it was always about making money. and those americanised chinese restaurants have given many many chinese american families their livelihood. without them we'd still be coolies. fobs understand this perfectly. it's only the overly americanised chinese that have a problem understanding what those restaurants are about because they're so insecure about a lack of chinese culture in their lives that they think everything has to do with culture or race. when the reality is that they don't even know shit about their own culture, being so americanised.

what a fucking joke. the truth is, you're in no position to judge them. dumb-ass johk sing.
"you ask what the fuck is "mandarin style wok cooking", let me ask you this, what the hell is general tso's chicken? that shit is not chinese food. how's that different from a place like p.f. chang's? the food is the motherfucking same."

No argument there. General Tso's chicken is General Tso's chicken. You know what it is.

I'm still wondering what "mandarin style wok cooking" is.

"it was never about culture or authenticity. it was always about making money. and those americanised chinese restaurants have given many many chinese american families their livelihood."

Who's questioning their right to a livelihood? I'm not and never did.

And as far as it being about making money -- to P.F. Chang's it certainly is. Perhaps to many or most other restaurant owners and proprieters, it's also about making money.

But to customers, it's not about making money or paying money. It's about food.

"it's only the overly americanised chinese that have a problem understanding what those restaurants are about because they're so insecure about a lack of chinese culture in their lives that they think everything has to do with culture or race. when the reality is that they don't even know shit about their own culture, being so americanised."

That's a mightily authoritative tone, considering you don't know anything about me aside from the fact that P.F. Chang's is a pet peeve of mine. You apparently didn't even read my posts. You certainly didn't understand them.

I'll write it again. I'll write it really slow for you, just so you won't misunderstand...

First and foremost, restaurants...are...about...food. F-O-O-D.

If it's shitty Chinese food served by Chinese people, it's still shitty Chinese food. And yes, if it's shitty Chinese food served by non-Chinese who pretend to know something/respect Chinese food and culture, then I find it extra-annoying.

If your parents supported your family by serving Americanized Chinese food, good for them. I wouldn't criticize them for doing that and you're pretty far off base pretending as if I have.

"the truth is, you're in no position to judge them."

Reading Comprehension. Try it out. You might like it.

I'm in the position to judge the food of any restaurant that I patronize. I'm in the position to judge the service of any restaurant I patronize. Ditto insofar as their ambiance, their level of authenticity, and whether or not I like the paintings on the wall or the pattern of the carpeting.

As to any other judgement, I've never put myself in that position. Try having an argument with someone you actually have an argument with. At the least, try having an argument, rather than making shit up and putting it other peoples' mouths.

[luv]

In the defense of American Chinese cuisine, I have never eaten good Beef Broccoli, Sweet & Sour Chicken, Egg Foo Young, or even decent egg rolls in Chinatown, not to mention General Tso's Chicken, egg drop soup/hot & sour soup. You have to give props to these (often suburban) restaurants that serve these dishes, because they are a cuisine of its own.

As for PF Chang's being overpriced, I wouldn't go there, but if there are people willing to pay (never seen the menu- but since everyone says its expensive) perhaps $9.00 for fried rice, let them be.

Also, on the other end of the spectrum (original topic of this thread), I know many older Chinese people (even some young ones) who will not ever go near cheese, pizza, or burgers, just to mention a few things.

[sOKaLiBoY]

my family loves pf chang's for some reason. the food is ok at best. maybe it's cus we are 4th generation.

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by Chester@May 1 2003, 05:52 PM
No argument there. General Tso's chicken is General Tso's chicken. You know what it is.

I'm still wondering what "mandarin style wok cooking" is.

mandarin style wok cooking is the same thing general tso's chicken is.

Originally posted by Chester@May 1 2003, 05:52 PM
Who's questioning their right to a livelihood? I'm not and never did.

i did not say that you questioned their right to livelihood, but you disrespect the way by which their livelihood is conceived, all because those restaurants are not authentic enough for your individual taste, when those restaurants were always meant to serve white people who wouldn't know any different. pretty insolent of you in my opinion.

Originally posted by Chester@May 1 2003, 05:52 PM
And as far as it being about making money -- to P.F. Chang's it certainly is. Perhaps to many or most other restaurant owners and proprieters, it's also about making money.

But to customers, it's not about making money or paying money. It's about food.

you're a socialist aren't you? the purpose of every single business is to make money. ok, so the food is not authentic. what's more important, that every chinese restaurants must serve authentic chinese food, or that americanised chinese restaurants are putting chinese american kids through college across the country? why do you want to bitch about them? pretty disrespectful of you in my opinion.

Originally posted by Chester@May 1 2003, 05:52 PM
That's a mightily authoritative tone, considering you don't know anything about me aside from the fact that P.F. Chang's is a pet peeve of mine. You apparently didn't even read my posts. You certainly didn't understand them.

no, i've read every single one of your post. yes, i'm being mightily authoritative. by all means, dispell my assumptions if i'm wrong that you're a dumb-ass johk sing, or just an overly westernised chinese dude.

Originally posted by Chester@May 1 2003, 05:52 PM
I'll write it again. I'll write it really slow for you, just so you won't misunderstand...

First and foremost, restaurants...are...about...food. F-O-O-D.

If it's shitty Chinese food served by Chinese people, it's still shitty Chinese food. And yes, if it's shitty Chinese food served by non-Chinese who pretend to know something/respect Chinese food and culture, then I find it extra-annoying.

If your parents supported your family by serving Americanized Chinese food, good for them. I wouldn't criticize them for doing that and you're pretty far off base pretending as if I have.

again. disrespecting americanised chinese restaurant is the dumbest thing you can do as a chinese american. and yes, you were doing that. you were bitching about them, and you said you would bitch about them. if you don't like them, don't go to them. you're attacking an institution that probably helped a numerous number of chinese american families to rise in social and financial status. all because of something as petty as the food not being authentic enough for you, when you're not even their target market.

Originally posted by Chester@May 1 2003, 05:52 PM
Reading Comprehension. Try it out. You might like it.

I'm in the position to judge the food of any restaurant that I patronize. I'm in the position to judge the service of any restaurant I patronize. Ditto insofar as their ambiance, their level of authenticity, and whether or not I like the paintings on the wall or the pattern of the carpeting.

As to any other judgement, I've never put myself in that position. Try having an argument with someone you actually have an argument with. At the least, try having an argument, rather than making shit up and putting it other peoples' mouths.

uh, yeah. maybe you should try reading comprehension yourself. i was saying that you're in no position to judge the authenticity of chinese food because you're americanised, and wouldn't have clue 1 about authenticity. yes, i was making fun of you. but obviously it flew right over your head.

so prove my assumptions wrong. johk sing.

[kasia]

i just have one thing to say. i liked p.f. chang's. *shrug* i kinda like fusion stuff.

[Tao]

SWK, chill man, otherwise i'll have to report your flames to yourself and have this thread moved to rant room.... :P

but seriously, take it easy on the new guy. can't we all just get along?

[AngryABCGirl]

Calm down, it's just FOOD. We all have different tastes, in the end, what's the big fucking deal if some food is too westernized or not? If you don't like it.... DON'T EAT THERE.

And since when has it become a crime to become acculurated or more Americanized-ie then liking more Americanized Chinese food? It's not as if you can stop it, it depends on what you were surrounded by growing up.

I for one can't stand eating overpriced Americanized Chinese food because I can pay half and get something better without driving out of my way.

That doesn't mean I'm a horrible human being because I don't like Americanized Chinese restaurants, it just means my taste buds like different things. It's all taste and business.

And I'm guilty of eating and enjoying it at Bucca Di Beppo.

[Chester]

mandarin style wok cooking is the same thing general tso's chicken is.

Not really. General Tso's chicken -- whether or not it's authentic -- is an actual dish. There's no such thing as "Mandarin style wok cooking," so far as I know. I mean, sheesh, to begin with, "wok" isn't a Mandarin word.

i did not say that you questioned their right to livelihood, but you disrespect the way by which their livelihood is conceived

It's not disrespectful to insult the food restaurants serve. If a restauranteur can't deal with having his food insulted, he ought to serve better food or not rely on the public for customers. When you rely on the public dollar, you're subject to public criticism.

Anyway...all I said was that I'd bitch at Americanized Chinese places for serving Americanized Chinese food just as I've been bitching about P.F. Chang's.

How you've construed this as my sullying your family's livelihood and the Grand Chinese American Tradition of Americanized Chinese Food is beyond me.

pretty insolent of you in my opinion.

Heh. "Insolent." What, like as if I had failed to kowtow low enough before the emperor?

Originally posted by Chester@May 1 2003, 05:52 PM
Perhaps to many or most other restaurant owners and proprieters, it's also about making money.

But to customers, it's not about making money or paying money. It's about food.

you're a socialist aren't you?

Uh...okay...

Are you playing some new disjointed logic game and have failed to tell me about it?

Seems like a fun game, so let's play...

the purpose of every single business is to make money.

You're a Marxist, aren't you?

This is fun!

ok, so the food is not authentic.

You're a Seventh Day Adventist, aren't you?

What a great game. Anyway, back to the discussion at hand...

what's more important, that every chinese restaurants must serve authentic chinese food, or that americanised chinese restaurants are putting chinese american kids through college across the country?

Wait...are we going back to playing the faulty logic game? Again: nobody is forbidding that someone of any color open up an Americanized Chinese restaurant.

Again, slowly: Nobody...is...forbidding...that...someone...of...a ny...color...open...up...an...Americanized...Chine se...restaurant.

But the fact that someone has a right to open up any restaurant they wish to open does not exempt them from having their food criticized. Dude...it's a restaurant. People criticize a restaurant's food when they don't like it.

why do you want to bitch about them?

Uh...because I don't like the food? What, do you compliment food you don't like?

pretty disrespectful of you in my opinion.

You're a vegetarian, aren't you?

by all means, dispell my assumptions if i'm wrong that you're a dumb-ass johk sing, or just an overly westernised chinese dude.

Dispel my assumptions that you're a Marxist, Seventh Day Adventist vegetarian!

Dispel my assumptions that you're a member of Al-Qaeda! I dare you! I double-dare you!

Asking people to prove the negative is offensive and lazy. If you want to call me names, then you back your shit up. I'm not here to dance to your music.

you're attacking an institution that probably helped a numerous number of chinese american families to rise in social and financial status

I can't believe that you're disrespecting food critics. Food criticism has helped a numerous number of food critic families rise in social financial status. I can't believe you would deny a college education to the chidren of food critics.

Doesn't that sound kind of silly?

I'm not attacking any institution. I'm not attacking upward mobility for Chinese Americans (you know, it helps to prove something rather than just state it). I'm criticizing a style of food.

As far as I remember, there was no provision in the Chinese American Rulebook that prohibited criticism of types of food. In fact, I think it's a Chinese trait to be critical of food.

i was saying that you're in no position to judge the authenticity of chinese food because you're americanised, and wouldn't have clue 1 about authenticity.

You are a Post-Impressionist, aren't you?

Again, making things personal is one thing. According to your own Admin request, people shouldn't make personal attacks. But if you think ad hominem attacks are cool, then fine. Fire away. Just don't start chastising me when I respond in kind.

But it would be better if you at least had the integrity to back your stuff up. Otherwise, you come off like a petulant third-grader.

yes, i was making fun of you.  but obviously it flew right over your head.

Not really. I had read your Admin post that asked people to refrain from personal attacks and accordingly tried to stay reasonably civil, giving you the chance to calm down.

so prove my assumptions wrong. johk sing.

Apparently you haven't calmed down.

Nuh-uh. Baseless assumptions don't need to be disproven. They need to be proven.

So do your own work.

[Napoleon Chynamite]

Food is of the utmost importance but probably not worth arguing about. Just eat it...or not. I see that everyone pretty much just skipped over my post regarding selling out or keeping or learning more about one's cultural background/roots, but that usually happens every time I try to write something remotely significant and not just perverted or meant to be stupid. If it bleeds, it can be cooked. :D

[Napoleon Chynamite]

The thing tho Chester is that your tone seems to insinuate that you aren't bitching because these americanized chinese food places have unpalatable or nasty ass food, it's because you feel as if by doing this they are doing something immoral or disgraceful. That's just the feeling I got after reading what you had to say *shrug* You weren't critiquing the food (and nobody is saying that food should not be critiqued) you seemed to be critiquing the reasons, intentions and/or motives behind the actions. And btw technically even the food in Chinatowns across the U.S. is americanized due to higher fat content, infinitely larger portions, more use of sauce and much more meat in proportionate to the entire dish. And I put that stuff away like crazy, totally not giving a shit how authentic it is.

[Chester]

Originally posted by FrozenPizza@May 1 2003, 04:27 PM
The thing tho Chester is that your tone seems to insinuate that you aren't bitching because these americanized chinese food places have unpalatable or nasty ass food, it's because you feel as if by doing this they are doing something immoral or disgraceful.
Well, I guess it's complicated. It's been a rambling "discussion."

I bitched about P.F. Chang's pretty vehemently and I guess you could see how I might think that I consider them "immoral" or "disgraceful," although I think those two words are a lot stronger than what my tone was. I said that they appropriate Chinese culture and dilute it down to the tastes of the ignorant. That doesn't really equate to "immoral" or "disgraceful."

And I never said that P.F. Chang's serves unpalatable or nasty-ass food. I think that I said that it's alright...just overpriced and part and parcel to an environment that is generally annoying and patronizing.

And as for Chinese-owned Americanized Chinese places...I never said that they serve unpalatable food or nasty-ass food. I never said they were immoral or disgraceful. I certainly didn't mean to imply any of that either. But I don't like the style of food, in general and will bitch about it, if prompted.

So, to clear it all up:
- I don't necessarily dislike Americanized Chinese food in an absolute sense. I dig some of it. However, I'd rather it be a small part of a more authentic selection.
- Any which way, I don't like being overcharged for it.
- If that's what you like to eat, then go right ahead and eat it. If that's the only sort of Chinese food that you like to eat, as opposed to the more varied, sophisticated, and nuanced stuff that abounds, then go ahead. But if you bring the topic up, I'll tell you that I think you're being close-minded and denying yourself a lot of good grub.
- I don't like it when a company like P.F. Chang's claims to uphold the traditions of Chinese cuisine when what they really are is a Chinese version of Chevy's.
- If a Chinese-owned restaurant offers a menu that is as narrow-minded as that of P.F. Chang's, yeah, I'll bitch about it.
- But I don't think that means I'm trying to deny the restaurant owners' children a college education.
- And I'm not a Socialist.
- SunWuKung may or may not be a Seventh Day Adventist, but I'll leave that up to him to clear up.

[lethal]

Alrighty...that's enough of this I think...maybe we should get back onto the topic of Korean BBQ?

[Chester]

Originally posted by lethalweapon@May 1 2003, 06:10 PM
Alrighty...that's enough of this I think...maybe we should get back onto the topic of Korean BBQ?
Korean BBQ is an appropriation and dilution of authentic Southern American culture. To partake in Korean BBQ is to deny a college education to the entire population of both Carolinas.

Here's a question: which leaves you reeking of oil and smoke to a greater extent, Korean BBQ or Chinese Hot Pot [1]?

And is there any way to combat this, other than covering yourself with Saran Wrap, leaving only a small aperture for your mouth?

[1] Hot Pot places with the swivel-arm frying grip.

[AngryABCGirl]

Originally posted by lethalweapon@May 1 2003, 06:10 PM
Alrighty...that's enough of this I think...maybe we should get back onto the topic of Korean BBQ?
Speaking of which, how can anyone say no to Korean BBQ?

[luv]

Korean BBQ -- yummy!!! But I always eat too much.

But its always pretty sad and annoying when people complain about new foods. I have developed slight aversion to eating with people who own/works at restaurants. They always complain about how overpriced everything is. (i.e. man, they're charging $25.00 for filet mignon -- I can buy that at wholesale for...blah...blah...blah...).

[SunWuKong]

no Chester, you did not simply say that you think the food at Americanised Chinese food sucks. here, i'll lay it out for you. it seems that you have reading comprehension problems with your very own posts.

you said that the reason you don't like P.F. Chang's was because it "dilutes" Chinese culture. not an uncommon complaint about many things that overly-westernised Chinese/Asian people who are "in search of their culture" would do. i, in turn, said that Americanised Chinese restaurants have been doing the same thing for a long time. then you said that you'd bitch about them, too, if they were as "cheesy and disingenuous" as P.F. Chang's.

and i am telling you that this is disrespectful of an institution that has been very important to Chinese Americans. to the numerous restauranteurs, it was never about culture or authenticity. it was always about making a living.

why do i make assumptions about you? because as far as i know, only a johk sing would care more about how Chinese culture appears in white people's eyes than the fact that Chinese restauranteurs are making a good living selling their Americanised Chinese food, in their "cheesy and disingenuous" Americanised Chinese restaurants.

and i don't feel that i have to prove that my assumptions are right. you've already proved me right by the fact that you have not said that i'm wrong.

Originally posted by Chester@May 1 2003, 08:58 PM
Again, slowly: Nobody...is...forbidding...that...someone...of...a ny...color...open...up...an...Americanized...Chine se...restaurant.

i never claimed that you said people are not allowed to open Americanised Chinese restaurants. so i...don't...know...where...you...got...that.

i simply accosted you for disrespecting Americanised Chinese restaurants.

[deez nuts]

is PF Chang's owned by a chinese guy i.e. a chef chang? if so, get the money and retire in style, coolie! i don't know the corperate history and too lazy to look it up.

never been to PF chang's...but the amount of burn it's been getting on this thread i might go take a looky looky.



to stay on topic: a korean food for me ain't korean food unless it includes a kalbi bbq, i love the stuff. tho my korean friends laugh at me when i go to a korean tofu or dumpling house and order kalbi bbq with the tofu or dumpling dish as a side. hahahahah.

[sOKaLiBoY]

Originally posted by Chasiubao_Boy@May 2 2003, 07:53 AM
is PF Chang's owned by a chinese guy i.e. a chef chang? if so, get the money and retire in style, coolie! i don't know the corperate history and too lazy to look it up.

never been to PF chang's...but the amount of burn it's been getting on this thread i might go take a looky looky.

even some of the authentic chinese restaurants have two menus. one for the general populus (which includes some dishes catered to the american palate) and the "other" menu which is all in chinese which have the real authentic stuff. i like the old world shit....since it comes closest to mom's cooking, especially in the cantonese restuarants.

to stay on topic: a korean food for me ain't korean food unless it includes a kalbi bbq, i love the stuff. tho my korean friends laugh at me when i go to a korean tofu or dumpling house and order kalbi bbq with the tofu or dumpling dish as a side. hahahahah.

here is a brief history...

When Paul Fleming decided to create a China Bistro that served delicious Chinese cuisine and fine wine, he enlisted the help of long-time friend Philip Chiang. Together, the experienced Arizona restaurateur and Chinese cuisine expert became the P. F. and Chiang in P.F. Chiang's China Bistro. The first of which opened in Scottsdale in July 1993.

In the ensuing seven years the sophisticated, contemporary bistro setting has caught on across the country. But then that is not surprising considering the experience and success that Fleming and Chiang brought to this venture.

Paul Fleming began his association with successful restaurants as a Ruth's Chris Steak House franchisee in the early 1980s, owning the development and ownership rights for California, Arizona and Hawaii. Eventually, Fleming would sell his stake in Ruth's Chris back to company founder Ruth Fertel, and team with Philip Chiang to create P.F. Chang's China Bistro.

[deez nuts]

thanks sokal. good looks.

[angel nympho]

What's wrong with Americanized Asian stuff? I see it as a way for me to tie my family's history with my own. A compromise of sorts....

[Chester]

you said that the reason you don't like P.F. Chang's was because it "dilutes" Chinese culture.

Part of the reason, sure.

not an uncommon complaint about many things that overly-westernised Chinese/Asian people who are "in search of their culture" would do.
Or for people who care about their food and the presentation thereof.

(BTW, if you engage in personal attacks, am I suppose to report you to you, or to someone else?)

then you said that you'd bitch about them, too, if they were as "cheesy and disingenuous" as P.F. Chang's. and i am telling you that this is disrespectful of an institution that has been very important to Chinese Americans.

Please go back and read that message again. The "cheesy and disingenuous" was directly in reference to the cheesy and disingenuous declarations they put all over their publicity material.

In that message I quoted a couple. Go to their website to find a whole bunch more. If a business claims to do one thing (i.e. serve authentic cuisine) and does another (i.e. serve hackneyed cuisine), then I'll bitch about it. I'll bitch about P.F. Chang's doing it and I'll bitch about a Chinese-owned place that does it too, though I have yet to see a Chinese-owned place go to the same level of extremes as P.F. Chang's.

I bitch about Fry's Electronics for putting up platitudes about valuing customer service when everyone knows they don't give a rat's ass about customer service. Does this mean that I'm disrespectful to the Fry's family and their right to send their children to college?

This isn't "disrespectful of an institution," this is just being a consumer who is pointing out dishonest slop. If you don't like that, then attack me for that. Attack me for being whiny, not for some absurd perceived slight to the "institution of Chinese American restaurants."

to the numerous restauranteurs, it was never about culture or authenticity. it was always about making a living.

I don't know why you keep writing that. It's totally irrelevant and not something I would contest.

As I wrote before, point is that, to customers: it's about food. If you serve clichéd food, the people who don't like that food will criticize you. If you serve clichéd food and put up signs declaring that you honor and uphold the values of authenticity, then people who don't like dishonesty will criticize you. If you can't take that, don't serve the general public. Go cater to a captive audience that doesn't really have the ability to bitch about you -- go operate a school cafeteria.

why do i make assumptions about you?

Because you're apparently a presumptious person who would rather make accusations than ask questions.

because as far as i know, only a johk sing would care more about how Chinese culture appears in white people's eyes than the fact that Chinese restauranteurs are making a good living selling their Americanised Chinese food, in their "cheesy and disingenuous" Americanised Chinese restaurants.

1. You don't know the first thing about me -- you've just projected a lot of shit on me.
2. I never said anything about how Chinese culture appears in white people's eyes -- that's your own projection.
3. I have never said anything about not wanting Chinese restauranteurs to make a living -- that's your projection.

Instead of making the same tired accusations over and over, try proving something. Or go argue with second-graders. They operate on a similar level of rhetorical honesty.

and i don't feel that i have to prove that my assumptions are right. you've already proved me right by the fact that you have not said that i'm wrong.

Yeah, and you're a Lithuanian dwarf masquerading as "SunWuKung." You're not even a mammal -- you're a highly-evolved protozoa who has somehow learned how to operate a computer keyboard.

Silly? Prove me wrong. Unless you prove me wrong, then you have "proved me right." We can do this all day, if you remove the necessity of actually backing up accusations. But it's a waste of time.

You're apparently a member of the select crowd of people who think they can make baseless accusations free from the responsibility of ever proving them. The few, the proud, the McCarthyite.

i never claimed that you said people are not allowed to open Americanised Chinese restaurants. so i...don't...know...where...you...got...that.

Because you implied it and continue to imply every time you bring it up.

Look, we're just typing around in circles and our feud has nothing to do with the original topic. If you actually want to refrain from personal attacks and back up things you say, I guess you could leave it in this forum. I don't know -- you're the Admin, I guess you can decide.

Everyone else is getting pretty tired of this. So if you want to keep going down this line, calling me names and putting words in my mouth, then let's just move over the Rants forum and I'll exchange pointless invective with you all day long. I haven't participated in a good flame thread for quite a while now. I'll promise not to report you to you ( :P ) when you keep going on with your personal attacks if you promise not to report me to yourself ( :lol: ) when I stop being civil.

[kasia]

actually, upon review of their menu, i can see chester's point. it's more like fusion if anything. if they claim to be serving authentic chinese cuisine, i'd be annoyed too - because it's a fraudulent claim.

<sarcasm> great wall of chocolate cake. nice. </sarcasm>

*********************************

Appetizers

CHANG'S CHICKEN IN SOOTHING LETTUCE WRAPS
Quickly-cooked spiced chicken served with cool lettuce cups.
$ 6.50

CRAB WONTONS
Served with spicy plum sauce.
$ 5.95

SHRIMP DUMPLINGS
Served with a ginger chili pepper soy sauce.
(Pan Fried or Steamed)
$ 6.95

SALT & PEPPER CALAMARI
Calamari tossed with scallions, Kosher salt and coarse black pepper.
$ 6.95

HARVEST SPRING ROLLS
Crispy spring rolls filled with shredded vegetables.
(2) $3.50 (4) $4.95

NORTHERN STYLE SPARE RIBS
Tender, wok-braised ribs served with a five spice salt.
$ 6.50

CHANG'S VEGETARIAN LETTUCE WRAPS
Wok-seared tofu, red onions, water chestnuts with mint and lime.
Served with cool lettuce cups.
$ 6.25

PEKING DUMPLINGS
Crescent shaped dumplings filled with ground pork and vegetables.
(Pan Fried or Steamed)
$ 4.95

VEGETABLE DUMPLINGS
Filled with shredded vegetables.
(Pan Fried or Steamed)
$ 4.95

CHANG'S SPARE RIBS
Wok-seared with Chang's barbecue sauce.
$ 6.50

SEARED AHI TUNA*
Rolled in Chinese spices, wok-seared and served cold with spicy mustard.
$ 7.95

SHANGHAI CUCUMBERS
Sliced cold cucumbers sprinkled with soy and sesame.
$ 4.95

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Soups/Salads

HOT AND SOUR SOUP
Chicken, bean curd, bamboo shoots and wood ear
mushrooms, sparked with hot white pepper and vinegar.
Cup $2.95 · Bowl $4.95

WONTON SOUP
Mushrooms, chicken, shrimp, and pork wontons in a chicken broth.
Bowl $4.95

PIN RICE NOODLE SOUP
Pork dumplings, shrimp, green onions and bean sprouts in a spicy
chicken broth.
Bowl $7.95

ORIENTAL CHICKEN SALAD
Garden vegetables, mixed greens and wonton strips tossed
with our light ginger vinaigrette.
$ 7.95

WARM DUCK SPINACH SALAD
Citrus soy dressing, Mandarin oranges, almonds and fried shallots.
(If you prefer, Cantonese Chicken is definitely an option.)
$ 8.95

PEANUT CHICKEN SALAD
House greens and vegetables tossed with peanut-lime dressing and
crispy noodles.
$ 7.95

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Chang's Recommends


(All entrées served with a choice of steamed brown or white rice)

CHANG' S SPICY CHICKEN
Lightly dusted and stir-fried in a sweet Sichuan sauce.
(Our version of General Chu's)
$10.95

MOO GOO GAI PAN
P.F. Chang's version of the classic Cantonese dish with chicken and shrimp.
$10.95

MONGOLIAN BEEF
Quickly cooked steak with scallions and garlic.
$11.95

ORANGE PEEL CHICKEN
Tossed with orange peel and chili peppers for a spicy/citrus combination.
$10.95

CRISPY HONEY SHRIMP
Lightly battered and quick-fried with a flavorful sauce.
$12.95

CANTONESE SCALLOPS OR SHRIMP
Stir-fried with garlic, yellow chives and snow peas.
$12.25

CANTONESE ROASTED DUCK
Served with steamed wheat buns, cucumbers, scallions, plum and
hoisin sauces.
$12.95

GINGER CHICKEN WITH BROCCOLI
Served Cantonese-style on a bed of fresh steamed broccoli.
$10.75

MANGO CHICKEN
Stir-fried chicken with mangoes, onions, bean sprouts and carrots.
$10.95

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Meats


(All entrées served with a choice of steamed brown or white rice)

ORANGE PEEL BEEF
Tossed with chili peppers and fresh orange peel for a spicy/citrus combination.
$10.95

SWEET AND SOUR PORK
Stir-fried with pineapple, bell peppers and onions in a sweet sour sauce.
$8.95

BEEF A LA SICHUAN
Twice-cooked with celery and carrots resulting in a crispy texture unlike anything you are used to.
$10.95

MU SHU PORK
A Chinese classic served with hoisin sauce and thin pancakes.
$8.95

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Chicken


(All entrées served with a choice of steamed brown or white rice)

KUNG PAO CHICKEN
Quick-fired with peanuts, chili peppers and scallions. Our hot favorite.
$10.95

MU SHU CHICKEN
A Chinese classic served with hoisin sauce and thin pancakes.
$8.95

PHILIP'S BETTER LEMON CHICKEN
Quick-fired with broccoli in a tart citrus sauce.
$10.95

SPICY GROUND CHICKEN AND EGGPLANT
Stir-fried with fiery spices and scallions.
$8.95

CHICKEN WITH BLACK BEAN SAUCE
Slices of chicken, stir-fried in black bean sauce.
$10.95

SWEET AND SOUR CHICKEN
Stir-fried with pineapple, bell peppers and onions in a sweet sour sauce.
$8.95

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Seafood


(All entrées served with a choice of steamed brown or white rice)

KUNG PAO SCALLOPS OR SHRIMP
Quick-fired with peanuts, chili peppers and scallions. Our hot favorite.
$12.95

OOLONG MARINATED SEA BASS
Broiled and served with sweet ginger soy, baby corn and spinach.
$17.95

LEMON PEPPER SHRIMP
Stir-fried with chives and bean sprouts.
$12.95

STEAMED "FISH OF THE DAY"
With spring onions, soy and ginger.
$13.95

ORANGE PEEL SHRIMP
Tossed with hot chilis and fresh orange peel for a spicy/citrus combination.
$12.95

HOT FISH
Crispy catfish slices in a Sichuan sauce with stir-fried vegetables.
$12.95

CHANG' S LEMON SCALLOPS
A light lemon sauce over wok-fried scallops.
$11.95

SICHUAN FROM THE SEA
Choice of tender scallops, shrimp or calamari prepared in a red chili pepper garlic sauce.
$12.25

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Noodles, Meins, & Rice

(All entrées served with a choice of steamed brown or white rice)

DAN DAN NOODLES
Scallions, garlic and chili peppers stir-fried with ground chicken nesting on hot egg noodles. Garnished with shredded cucumber and bean sprouts.
$8.95

CANTONESE CHOW FUN
Wide rice noodles with choice of chicken or beef with onions and ginger.
$9.95

P.F. CHANG' S FRIED RICE
Mixed with egg and soy, garnished with sliced scallions. Choice of beef, chicken, pork, or shrimp.
$ 6.50 · Combo $ 8.50

GARLIC NOODLES
Egg noodles tossed with garlic and chili peppers. A Mainland tradition.
$5.95

SICHUAN CHICKEN CHOW FUN
Wok-seared ground chicken with chili pepper, green onions and Sichuan preserved vegetables tossed with wide rice noodles.
$8.95

SINGAPORE STREET NOODLES
Shrimp, chicken and rice noodles stir-fried in a spicy curry sauce.
$8.95

CHOW MEIN
Egg noodles stir-fried with a choice of beef, pork, chicken, or shrimp.
$ 8.95 · Combo $ 10.95

DOUBLE PAN-FRIED NOODLES
Semi-crisp egg noodles stir-fried with vegetables and served with a choice of beef, pork, chicken, or shrimp.
$ 8.95 · Combo $ 10.95

VEGETABLE CHOW FUN
Soft wide rice noodles and slivered vegetables in spicy vegetarian sauce.
$ 6.95

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Vegetarian Plates & Sides


SICHUAN LONG BEANS OR ASPARAGUS
Quickly cooked with Sichuan preserved vegetables.
$5.95

SPINACH STIR-FRIED WITH GARLIC
The name says it all.
$4.95

BUDDHA' S FEAST
Mixed vegetables. (Steamed or Stir-Fried)
$5.95

COCONUT-CURRY VEGETABLES
Stir-fried mixed vegetables, crispy silken tofu and peanuts
in a vegetarian coconut-curry sauce.
$6.95

STIR-FRIED SPICY EGGPLANT
Tossed with scallions and a fiery sauce.
$6.95

MA PO TOFU
Sichuan's famous dish of crispy silken tofu, in a spicy vegetarian sauce
with steamed broccoli.
$6.95

GARLIC SNAP PEAS
Stir-fried with garlic.
$4.95

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Traditions

(Lunch served daily until 4 p.m.)

ALMOND AND CASHEW CHICKEN
Stir-fried with bell peppers, onions and mushrooms in a garlic soy sauce.
Lunch $ 6.95 · Dinner $ 9.50

BEEF WITH BROCCOLI
Served Cantonese-style, tossed with fresh steamed broccoli.
Lunch $ 6.95 · Dinner $ 9.95


CRISPY HONEY CHICKEN
Lightly battered and quick-fried with a flavorful sauce.
Lunch $ 6.95 · Dinner $ 9.50

SHRIMP WITH LOBSTER SAUCE
Garlic white wine sauce with Chinese black beans, mushrooms,
scallions and egg.
Lunch $7.95 · Dinner $11.95

LO MEIN
Thin noodles grilled then stir-fried with a choice of beef, chicken,
pork or shrimp.
Lunch $6.95 · Combo $8.95
Dinner $8.95 · Combo $10.95

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DESSERT

BANANA SPRING ROLLS
Six warm, crispy bites with coconut-pineapple ice cream and drizzled with caramel and vanilla sauces. Delicious!
$4.95

NEW YORK STYLE CHEESECAKE
Served with fresh berries and raspberry sauce.
$5.95

THE GREAT WALL OF CHOCOLATE
Six layers of rich chocolate cake frosted with semi-sweet chocolate chips
and served with raspberry sauce.
$6.95

[himura-dono]

Originally posted by Chester@May 2 2003, 10:52 AM

Part of the reason, sure.


Or for people who care about their food and the presentation thereof.

(BTW, if you engage in personal attacks, am I suppose to report you to you, or to someone else?)



Please go back and read that message again. The "cheesy and disingenuous" was directly in reference to the cheesy and disingenuous declarations they put all over their publicity material.

In that message I quoted a couple. Go to their website to find a whole bunch more. If a business claims to do one thing (i.e. serve authentic cuisine) and does another (i.e. serve hackneyed cuisine), then I'll bitch about it. I'll bitch about P.F. Chang's doing it and I'll bitch about a Chinese-owned place that does it too, though I have yet to see a Chinese-owned place go to the same level of extremes as P.F. Chang's.

I bitch about Fry's Electronics for putting up platitudes about valuing customer service when everyone knows they don't give a rat's ass about customer service. Does this mean that I'm disrespectful to the Fry's family and their right to send their children to college?

This isn't "disrespectful of an institution," this is just being a consumer who is pointing out dishonest slop. If you don't like that, then attack me for that. Attack me for being whiny, not for some absurd perceived slight to the "institution of Chinese American restaurants."



I don't know why you keep writing that. It's totally irrelevant and not something I would contest.

As I wrote before, point is that, to customers: it's about food. If you serve clichéd food, the people who don't like that food will criticize you. If you serve clichéd food and put up signs declaring that you honor and uphold the values of authenticity, then people who don't like dishonesty will criticize you. If you can't take that, don't serve the general public. Go cater to a captive audience that doesn't really have the ability to bitch about you -- go operate a school cafeteria.



Because you're apparently a presumptious person who would rather make accusations than ask questions.



1. You don't know the first thing about me -- you've just projected a lot of shit on me.
2. I never said anything about how Chinese culture appears in white people's eyes -- that's your own projection.
3. I have never said anything about not wanting Chinese restauranteurs to make a living -- that's your projection.

Instead of making the same tired accusations over and over, try proving something. Or go argue with second-graders. They operate on a similar level of rhetorical honesty.



Yeah, and you're a Lithuanian dwarf masquerading as "SunWuKung." You're not even a mammal -- you're a highly-evolved protozoa who has somehow learned how to operate a computer keyboard.

Silly? Prove me wrong. Unless you prove me wrong, then you have "proved me right." We can do this all day, if you remove the necessity of actually backing up accusations. But it's a waste of time.

You're apparently a member of the select crowd of people who think they can make baseless accusations free from the responsibility of ever proving them. The few, the proud, the McCarthyite.



Because you implied it and continue to imply every time you bring it up.

Look, we're just typing around in circles and our feud has nothing to do with the original topic. If you actually want to refrain from personal attacks and back up things you say, I guess you could leave it in this forum. I don't know -- you're the Admin, I guess you can decide.

Everyone else is getting pretty tired of this. So if you want to keep going down this line, calling me names and putting words in my mouth, then let's just move over the Rants forum and I'll exchange pointless invective with you all day long. I haven't participated in a good flame thread for quite a while now. I'll promise not to report you to you ( :P ) when you keep going on with your personal attacks if you promise not to report me to yourself ( :lol: ) when I stop being civil.
personal attack is like me calling you a fucktard.

a difference of opinion, or a "i'm right, you're wrong, bitch" situation does not qualify as a personal attack.

[himura-dono]

Originally posted by Chester@May 1 2003, 06:17 PM


Here's a question: which leaves you reeking of oil and smoke to a greater extent, Korean BBQ or Chinese Hot Pot [1]?

And is there any way to combat this, other than covering yourself with Saran Wrap, leaving only a small aperture for your mouth?

korean bbq hands down.

as for the oil and smooke smell, if possible (not really at k bbq, but hot pot places) sit away from the grills if they have em seperate.

mmmm....hot pot....

[SunWuKong]

alright, well, i apologise for my attacks on you, Chester. as an admin, i should know better than to continue this childishness.

to sum it up:

i choose to respect Americanised Chinese restaurants for what they've done for the Chinese American community so that i wouldn't bitch about how they've supposedly distorted the image of Chinese food/Chinese culture. and also, honestly, i don't give a rat's ass about what non-Chinese people think about Chinese culture. to each his own i guess.

i'm even more convinced now than ever that i don't want my kids to become "Asian American".

[kasia]

Originally posted by SunWuKung@May 2 2003, 01:28 PM
i'm even more convinced now than ever that i don't want my kids to become "Asian American".
stereotyping again. you can make a point without attacking the identity of many of the members, you know.

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by kasia@May 2 2003, 06:35 PM
stereotyping again. you can make a point without attacking the identity of many of the members, you know.
but kasie! most ABCs just don't grow up to be as deliciously fobby as you! :D :P

[AngryABCGirl]

Originally posted by SunWuKung@May 2 2003, 03:31 PM
but kasie! most ABCs just don't grow up to be as deliciously fobby as you! :D :P
Kasie is right, and if you do have kids here, they'll be "Asian-American" no matter what.

[kuanyin]

oooh... i love asian foods....anything

and yep, more for us (well, me at least)

oh... i don't try to do that taking other people out to eat asian foods. i guess i'm kinda more into getting their politics right before going that deep. i mean hell, risk having food i love be insulted?? that's a fight nobody wants to see.

PF Changs...started by a white man of course its :gross:

[angel nympho]

Originally posted by kasia@May 2 2003, 06:58 PM
actually, upon review of their menu, i can see chester's point. it's more like fusion if anything. if they claim to be serving authentic chinese cuisine, i'd be annoyed too - because it's a fraudulent claim.
Okay, but see... there's no problem here. THEY DONT CLAIM TO BE AUTHENTIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ChairmanMah]

eww, i don't like or have a desire to try frog, turtle, pig head, liver, pig feet, sea cucumber, sea snail

exotic stuff i don't mind eating at times include tripe, jellyfish, weird fungi, seaweed, squid, abalone,

[ChairmanMah]

oh and about the asian food western fusion thing.

it's the trendy thing now. in vancouver there's a ritzy marine themed restaraunt on the ocean shore called Cardero's and there's a whole section dedicated to Wok food but presented in a western style. It's like a stir fry w/ a ball of rice on the side.

The Cactus Club has a teriyaki rice bowl i think.

[kasia]

Originally posted by angel nympho@May 2 2003, 05:29 PM
Okay, but see... there's no problem here.&nbsp; THEY DONT CLAIM TO BE AUTHENTIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
yeh, i wasn't sure if they did or not. i just didn't want to assume that they didn't without checking first, since chester's posts seemed to rest on the fact that they did.

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by ChairmanMah@May 2 2003, 10:16 PM
eww, i don't like or have&nbsp; a desire to try frog, turtle, pig head, liver, pig feet, sea cucumber, sea snail

exotic stuff i don't mind eating at times include tripe, jellyfish, weird fungi, seaweed, squid, abalone,
when did any of that become "exotic"?

:confused:

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by AzNBuffGrL@May 2 2003, 08:55 PM
Kasie is right, and if you do have kids here, they'll be "Asian-American" no matter what.
yeah hopefully i'll be raising kids (if i have any) in one of the chinese-speaking parts of asia.

[shy]

i love food.

period.

i love trying new things. especially from different cultures. in fact, i think i would die of boredom if i had to eat one kind of food from one ethnicity every single day for the rest of my life.

korean bbq rocks! especially when we had it on our picnic table in our backyard on a warm, summer eveniing! :) yum. i'm starting to get hungry.

i even like westernized chinese food. not all the time, of course. but once in awhile, i crave those chicken-balls! (though i would get seriously offended if anyone were to call me white-washed because of that - i'm surprised people use that term here! i hope they were just joking. :unsure: )

[shy]

Originally posted by SunWuKung@May 2 2003, 01:28 PM
i'm even more convinced now than ever that i don't want my kids to become "Asian American".
really? how come? i mean... i understand that it's your personal preference. and that's cool... but i'd like to know why you feel so strongly about this?

my kids will be asian canadian. and i'm totally fine with that. my fiance is half scottish, quarter italian and quarter german. yeah... we will most definitely have kids with mixed cultures! :)

we've already discussed that we're going to do what we can to teach them about the chinese and scottish heritage (as he identifies with his scottish heritage more strongly). i think, however, because my family lives here in toronto, and toronto having a very strong chinese community, our children will most likely be heavily influenced by the chinese culture. but i want them to know their canadian culture as well. most importantly, i want them to be happy with who they are, regardless of where they will be born.

but what am i doing? we're talking about food here... ;)

okay, so getting back on topic... i'm definitely going to teach my kids how to make dumplings from scratch, like my mom taught me! -_-

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by shyeyes@May 3 2003, 11:28 AM
really? how come? i mean... i understand that it's your personal preference. and that's cool... but i'd like to know why you feel so strongly about this?
if i have kids, i'd want to raise them in asia and send them to international school. people outside the US have a better world-view of things. they're not as insolent. and a lot of times i find that "asian americans" can't see the bigger picture of things. there's that, and also i'd want my kids to be ingrained with how chinese society is. you can say that places like SF and toronto are full of chinese culture/society, but in my opinion they're constantly stigmatised by the fact that they're still a minority and all the race-relation issues that can go with that.

[AngryABCGirl]

Originally posted by SunWuKung@May 3 2003, 10:20 AM
if i have kids, i'd want to raise them in asia and send them to international school. people outside the US have a better world-view of things. they're not as insolent. and a lot of times i find that "asian americans" can't see the bigger picture of things. there's that, and also i'd want my kids to be ingrained with how chinese society is. you can say that places like SF and toronto are full of chinese culture/society, but in my opinion they're constantly stigmatised by the fact that they're still a minority and all the race-relation issues that can go with that.
You remind me of why I think American conservatives are stupid. I think if I were not Asian-American I would have probably end up as American conservative too, but being Asian for me changes everything, because I know American's insolence and xenophobic tendancies can have a negative effect.

You're also giving pre-nightmares of me having kids here that bring home white boyfriends/girlfriends who want to be emo-rockers. :o I don't want spoiled insolent kids who don't think about anything but MTV and "fighting for your rights" anymore than you do.

I'm lucky I've been blessed to be a TAP which as allowed me to travel more to Asia, Europe, and all over America, which forces you to be more aware of the world rather than this fat country full of stupid people who think there is only this fat country.

However I do think if you do find a really ethnic neighborhood normalized neighborhood, not a Chinatown, like the San Gabriel Valley or even Orange County (not really sure about this one), a lot of kids grow up not knowing they're a minority anymore which scares me more. They don't have any sense of being "Asian-American" as you say it with issues. They act more like stereotypical fobs who don't care about stuff like AF, Howard Coble, China-US tensions, because they can't imagine that stuff harming them.

I deal with more kids that can't accept the fact that they're a minority rather than the opposite. It really scares me sometimes, because I think everyone in this country who isn't white eventually has an experience that shakes them up a bit to force them to realize that they are indeed a minority and there's always a reaction to that, and that wasn't any different for me.

Otherwise I'd be apathetic still too and have no sense of "Asian-American" and still be another kid sitting around in boba shops all the time listening to Jay Chou or San Zi Yi and oblivious to the world going on outside of her.

What makes me care more about the "Asian-American" identity than international issues are probably my peers because eventually international issues with China and Taiwan come flying in our faces too as Asian-American kids and people don't know how to deal with that. That's my motivation for awareness on race-awareness issues, because I don't think enough people realize that International issues in Asia can quickly turn into race issues for us.

[himura-dono]

Originally posted by AzNBuffGrL@May 3 2003, 02:18 PM
You remind me of why I think American conservatives are stupid. I think if I were not Asian-American I would have probably end up as American conservative too, but being Asian for me changes everything, because I know American's insolence and xenophobic tendancies can have a negative effect.


and what about all those non-asian liberals... man, if you're gonna crack on swk, think about the whole picture before proving him right. :rolleyes:

[ChairmanMah]

Originally posted by SunWuKung@May 2 2003, 10:20 PM
Originally posted by ChairmanMah@May 2 2003, 10:16 PM
eww, i don't like or have a desire to try frog, turtle, pig head, liver, pig feet, sea cucumber, sea snail

exotic stuff i don't mind eating at times include tripe, jellyfish, weird fungi, seaweed, squid, abalone,
when did any of that become "exotic"?

:confused:
i guess i meant out of the ordinary. Like different stuff than at a white supermarket.

[ChairmanMah]

why do americans love deep fry so much. I think that western deep fry prawn, chicken, or pork is like a grease ball.

[himura-dono]

Originally posted by ChairmanMah@May 3 2003, 02:33 PM
Originally posted by SunWuKung@May 2 2003, 10:20 PM
Originally posted by ChairmanMah@May 2 2003, 10:16 PM
eww, i don't like or have a desire to try frog, turtle, pig head, liver, pig feet, sea cucumber, sea snail

exotic stuff i don't mind eating at times include tripe, jellyfish, weird fungi, seaweed, squid, abalone,
when did any of that become "exotic"?

:confused:
i guess i meant out of the ordinary. Like different stuff than at a white supermarket.
um, tripe, seaweed and squid can all be found in your local "white" grocery store. any reason it's a "white" grocery store?

[himura-dono]

Originally posted by ChairmanMah@May 3 2003, 02:35 PM
why do americans love deep fry so much. I think that western deep fry prawn, chicken, or pork is like a grease ball.
for the asian equivalent, try tempura. equally greasy and also tastes predominantly like grease.

[ChinaLama]

thank god some people wanna talk about FOOD here!

[shy]

Originally posted by SunWuKung@May 3 2003, 10:20 AM
you can say that places like SF and toronto are full of chinese culture/society, but in my opinion they're constantly stigmatised by the fact that they're still a minority and all the race-relation issues that can go with that.
really??? hmm... well, i heard from those in SF that say it's better in toronto. but i think that's because the canadian government supports multi-culturism here a lot more. and toronto REALLY supports multi-culrturalism.

i don't feel like a minority at all. actually, i think i have it good. i hear about a lot of racism against asia in other parts of canada in parts of the US and it reminds me how good i've got it here.

however... you are right in that if you truely want your children to be raised with the utmost amount of asian influence, then raising them in an asian country is the best option. that's a personal preference and one which i respect so long as you know with clarity your purpose.

have you been to toronto within the last few years, btw? just curious...

damn! going off topic here. sorry people! but if it makes you feel any better, toronto apparently has one of the best authentic chinese restaurents to pick from (quantity and quality) in north america. at least that is what asians tell me from vancouver, SF and NY. i don't know if there are any stats on this... i do think it has to do w/ the fact that we have three major ares that are considered 'china town' across all of the greater toronto area.

i live in one of them. :)

[AngryABCGirl]

Originally posted by himura-dono@May 3 2003, 02:31 PM
Originally posted by AzNBuffGrL@May 3 2003, 02:18 PM
You remind me of why I think American conservatives are stupid.&nbsp; I think if I were not Asian-American I would have probably end up as American conservative too, but being Asian for me changes everything, because I know American's insolence and xenophobic tendancies can have a negative effect.


and what about all those non-asian liberals... man, if you're gonna crack on swk, think about the whole picture before proving him right. :rolleyes:
I'm not talking about talking about the whole Asian-American rah rah I'm liberal thing. Get in context next time please.

I'm responding to what he says about American insolence in terms of international issues, which is mainly from conservative American who want to avoid the fact that there is a world outside of America, because they think that can. It's a very American attitude to be a John Wayne and not worry about the rest of the world and what it thinks and just use muscle. SWK doesn't want his kids to turn out that way, and I don't want mine to either, but a lot of non-Asians sure don't mind that mindset.


My parents work back and forth between China, here, and Taiwan. I watch news on Channel 18(Asian langauge Channel.) Everything I do is connected to somewhere else, transnationalism is unavoidable. But that's the way life is for me and a lot of other kids growing up like me.

Most kids who grow up comfortably in ethnic neighborhoods without much exposure to the outside of it tend to not get "AA activist issues" oriented and are comfortably transnationalistic. It's pretty hard for them to become a xenophobic conservative which was the point I was trying to take across. That same comfort is why I have to go on yellowworld and talk about this because few of my friends think AA issues matter because they feel safe.

I'm feeling like it's more and more of a crime to be Asian and born here or something, therefore Asian-American. It seems like fobs just don't like Americans and we get lumped in.

But one thing that really sticks with me and that's probably not from the American side of me is the desperate need to take care of my family and putting them ahead of me.

That's how I ended up being issues oriented Asian-American than unconcerned about any of it because those issues end up affecting anyone of Chinese decent in America, even if they don't consider themselves "Asian-American." It's the best way to serve my family and my community and make sure they can live peacefully with everything they need, because people STILL try to stop the development of Asian business in the San Gabriel Valley, cops still keep pulling people over who can't speak English well enough so they get threatened and get tricked, the government keeps accusing people of being spies-a woman a few blocks from me even, kids I know get harassed when they stop foot outside of the area, doctors try to rip off patients, schools won't consider Chinese langauge classes to fund, cities oppose putting up Chinese langauge signs, some places still treat Asians as 2nd class citizens etc.

I'd be damned if I wasn't concerned being an educated, well-off, bilingual, Asian-American. I have the ability to help my community in ways recent immigrants don't, and I'd just be a lazy and selfish fuck if I didn't use them.

[ChairmanMah]

Originally posted by himura-dono@May 3 2003, 02:40 PM
Originally posted by ChairmanMah@May 3 2003, 02:33 PM
Originally posted by SunWuKung@May 2 2003, 10:20 PM
Originally posted by ChairmanMah@May 2 2003, 10:16 PM
eww, i don't like or have a desire to try frog, turtle, pig head, liver, pig feet, sea cucumber, sea snail

exotic stuff i don't mind eating at times include tripe, jellyfish, weird fungi, seaweed, squid, abalone,
when did any of that become "exotic"?

:confused:
i guess i meant out of the ordinary. Like different stuff than at a white supermarket.
um, tripe, seaweed and squid can all be found in your local "white" grocery store. any reason it's a "white" grocery store?
oh really... i don't think i've seen it in canada safeway or save on foods.

the real canadian superstore is quite ethnic though. i think the others are starting to catch up a bit.

hey shyeyes...is there safeway, save on foods or real can. superstores in t.o.??

[shy]

Originally posted by ChairmanMah@May 3 2003, 07:52 PM
[QUOTE=ChairmanMah,May 3 2003, 02:33 PM
i guess i meant out of the ordinary. Like different stuff than at a white supermarket.
um, tripe, seaweed and squid can all be found in your local "white" grocery store. any reason it's a "white" grocery store?
oh really... i don't think i've seen it in canada safeway or save on foods.

the real canadian superstore is quite ethnic though. i think the others are starting to catch up a bit.

hey shyeyes...is there safeway, save on foods or real can. superstores in t.o.??[/quote]
to be honest, we don't have safeway's in toronto. though there are many outside of toronto... in smaller towns. so i can't really help you there. the other places i've never heard of...

we have loblaws and dominion/A&P as our big chains here. and let me tell you... they make grocery shopping a lot more fun! they have a way better butcher/fish market as well as deli/cheese section then any other grocery store that i've seen.

they have an asian section which has chinese, thai and east indian to name the more popular parts... and yes, i've seen seaweed and squid. but i have not seen tripe only because i don't care for tripe that much. so i don't bother looking for it.

it's a great place for gourmet findings and regular stuff.

as for as very ethnic asian shopping, i guess they don't bother because in our area, we have tons of chinese grocery stores! i mean, when i buy cihnese food, i rather go to a chinese grocery store because i believe it's cheaper.

those big chain supermarkets charge more because they KNOW they give the convenience for those that want to buy everything all in one go. and they are 'freshed obsessed' (that's dominion's slogon).

okay... i can't believe i just went on so passionately about grocery stores. i'm such a nerd. :P

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by shyeyes@May 3 2003, 11:05 PM
really??? hmm... well, i heard from those in SF that say it's better in toronto. but i think that's because the canadian government supports multi-culturism here a lot more. and toronto REALLY supports multi-culrturalism.

i don't feel like a minority at all. actually, i think i have it good. i hear about a lot of racism against asia in other parts of canada in parts of the US and it reminds me how good i've got it here.

however... you are right in that if you truely want your children to be raised with the utmost amount of asian influence, then raising them in an asian country is the best option. that's a personal preference and one which i respect so long as you know with clarity your purpose.

have you been to toronto within the last few years, btw? just curious...

damn! going off topic here. sorry people! but if it makes you feel any better, toronto apparently has one of the best authentic chinese restaurents to pick from (quantity and quality) in north america. at least that is what asians tell me from vancouver, SF and NY. i don't know if there are any stats on this... i do think it has to do w/ the fact that we have three major ares that are considered 'china town' across all of the greater toronto area.

i live in one of them. :)
hahah where do you live? markham, scarborough, or richmond hill? :lol: they're not really "chinatowns" though, because those areas are full of HKers, who immigrated there mostly in the 80s and 90s, and many of them are rich HKers because the US was cutting off immigration while canada was letting anybody in with enough money to invest, whereas the official chinatown was established by immigrants who immigrated there in the wave of immigration after WW2, or even before. in fact, most HKers don't really like chinatowns because they're so out-dated and in many instances, dirty. anyway, this is why toronto has many "quality" asian restaurants, because you got a bunch of rich HKers wanting to make toronto like HK. and everybody knows that only NYC has more restaurants than HK in the entire world. ;)

the last time i was in toronto was right after 9-11. so that was 2001. i'm planning to visit again within 2 to 4 months.

toronto is nice and there is a lot of multi-culturalism to some degree (by "multi-cultural", i really mean: a lot of chinese stores and mini-malls. :lol: ), but the chinese people i know there are all pretty white-washed. the 1.5 genners and the fobs aren't like that, but the canadian-borns are. i mean, yeah, they go to those chinese places and they hang out with other chinese/asian people. but hey, the only difference i can really see between them and the average white toronto person is skin colour.

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by AzNBuffGrL@May 3 2003, 06:18 PM
Otherwise I'd be apathetic still too and have no sense of "Asian-American" and still be another kid sitting around in boba shops all the time listening to Jay Chou or San Zi Yi and oblivious to the world going on outside of her.
hahah hey that doesn't sound too bad. ignorance is bliss. and jay chou and sun yan zi are two of my favourites. :)

anyway, i actually want to try living in LA. depending on what happens in the next year or so, i might try to move out there. i mean, maybe you're right. just look