do you support the AA activist community?

[kimpossible]

Do you support the issues that face the Asian American community? If so, how? Do you feel that they apply to you? Which issues? How do you show your support of if you don't, why do you feel that NONE of the issues apply to you?

[BeTheReds]

Yes I support the asian american community on several issues, but not on all.


The problem is, if you want to be active about something, you need to find an activist group.

All the activist groups Ihave ever encountered have this, "You are with us or You are against us" mentality.

If you disagree with them on one thing, they won't want your help and support for other things.

Now, you can either let a group like this speak for you, or you can join it, and try to influence it. Both are lost causes, because one has people speaking for you saying stuff you don't agree with, and the other one has you being labled as an uncle tom because you isagree with something that most of the rest of the group agrees with.

[achtungbaby]

Originally posted by BeTheReds@Apr 15 2003, 04:19 PM
The problem is, if you want to be active about something, you need to find an activist group.

I disagree, and I think sites like YW or PoliticalCircus or MM are good examples of easy ways to stay informed and even ways to be somewhat active...

[Napoleon Chynamite]

Originally posted by BeTheReds@Apr 15 2003, 04:19 PM
Yes I support the asian american community on several issues, but not on all.


The problem is, if you want to be active about something, you need to find an activist group.

All the activist groups Ihave ever encountered have this, "You are with us or You are against us" mentality.

If you disagree with them on one thing, they won't want your help and support for other things.

Now, you can either let a group like this speak for you, or you can join it, and try to influence it. Both are lost causes, because one has people speaking for you saying stuff you don't agree with, and the other one has you being labled as an uncle tom because you isagree with something that most of the rest of the group agrees with.
yea what he said

Also, it is difficult for me to relate to many activists, who have probably faced difficulties, hardships, and/or situations or predicaments that I was lucky enough not to go through in my lifetime.

[AliBabaIncorporated]

sometimes I think the hardships I faced in life made me even less sympathetic to many activists

[BeTheReds]

Originally posted by achtungbaby@Apr 20 2003, 03:10 AM
Originally posted by BeTheReds@Apr 15 2003, 04:19 PM
The problem is, if you want to be active about something, you need to find an activist group.

I disagree, and I think sites like YW or PoliticalCircus or MM are good examples of easy ways to stay informed and even ways to be somewhat active...
It's one thing to be active on line where supporting a cause means writing your three e-mail addresses to some online petition and clicking the mouse button a few times. (another reason why i am displeased with 80/20's member count)

It's totally another to get out and educate people. You can't effectively take a stand by yourself. You can take a stand, but more people will notice a crowd in a picket line then only one guy. So you do need a group. And to get into the group you have to sign your rights to independent thought away.

Someone in the group might be protesting something you either don't care about or disagree with, but you have to support them.

In turn they will support you on your shit.

But if you didn't support them, then they will try to take you down, EVEN IF THEY AGREE WITH YOU!

[Fireblade]

Originally posted by BeTheReds@Apr 21 2003, 02:20 AM
Someone in the group might be protesting something you either don't care about or disagree with, but you have to support them.

In turn they will support you on your shit.

But if you didn't support them, then they will try to take you down, EVEN IF THEY AGREE WITH YOU!
I think it's because of the whole "one group, one mind" mentality; because everyone supposedly needs to be on the same page. I find it kind of amusing that a whole group of individuals will find one person to speak for them, when obviously not one person will agree with everything you say, unless he/she is a "yes" man. <_<

[Nightworlder]

Nope. I don't, never have, probrably never will, either. Not that I'm against those whom do, it's just not my bit. I don't feel a need to look for causes to defend other Asians, I don't see them as being oppressed. As far as I see it I think most of what I see on AA issue sites is just negative hypersensitive hysteria fabricated out of nothingness. Anyone can hate on whitties and the man, and as far as I can see it, most AA issues revolve around Asians & Whites, and how caucasians are evil and detestable. It's pretty repetitive already.

[BeTheReds]

Originally posted by Nightworlder@Apr 30 2003, 12:23 PM
most AA issues revolve around Asians & Whites, and how caucasians are evil and detestable. It's pretty repetitive already.
A lot of AA issues also come from bored college kids who want to fight for a cause when there isn't really a need for one. It makes it difficult for people on the outside to know which ones should be taken seriously.

[Chester]

I try to drink at least one bottle of cognac per month.

[coagulated fat]

I hear about AA issues all the time from my Asian relatives, and after a while I just get jaded/bored of hearing about it, maybe because it doesn't affect me as much. I don't like hearing my white side bashed and presented as racist all the time.

[achtungbaby]

I hear about AA issues all the time from my Asian relatives, and after a while I just get jaded/bored of hearing about it, maybe because it doesn't affect me as much.I love hearing these blatantly indifferent and surprisingly ignorant opinions:)

[kasia]

sometimes I think the hardships I faced in life made me even less sympathetic to many activists

so the fact that you had to face obstacles made you feel like everyone else should too - even if it is true that certain groups will have to face more than others, correct?

[kasia]

It's totally another to get out and educate people. You can't effectively take a stand by yourself. You can take a stand, but more people will notice a crowd in a picket line then only one guy. So you do need a group. And to get into the group you have to sign your rights to independent thought away.

Someone in the group might be protesting something you either don't care about or disagree with, but you have to support them.

In turn they will support you on your shit.

But if you didn't support them, then they will try to take you down, EVEN IF THEY AGREE WITH YOU!

that's not true at all. try getting involved, and you'll see.

for example, i'm on the board of governors for the asian pacific american bar association - a lawyer organization here in los angeles. there's also the southern california chinese lawyer's association, the korean american bar association, the japanese american bar association, pilipino american bar association, south asian american bar association (APABA, SCCLA, KABA, JABA, and SABA, respectively) - and during our board meetings, we'd argue with one another about whether to co-sponsor specific events held by the other groups. we never blindly just agree to support other org's events because they supported ours. we look at the idea behind the event and whether it supports our group's mission. in the end - as board members - we each get a vote. they're only about 20 of us, so every vote counts. and we don't always get unanimous votes. there are usually dissenting votes. and dissenting voters are never afraid that they will lose their seat on the board. why? because we're not like that.

the remove coble campaign. some members in APABA wanted to support it. some wanted to take a strong stance. some wanted to just write a letter and let it be. board discussion.

co-sponsoring the showing of the vincent chin documentary. similar occurrence.

i don't understand how we lose our autonomy by being active in the community.

rather, by choosing not to be active b/c you're afraid you'll lose your autonomy, you're actually letting your false beliefs of society dictate your actions.

[coagulated fat]

I love hearing these blatantly indifferent and surprisingly ignorant opinions:)
Ok, fine, but if you are going to attack what I say you can at least allow me to respond. Bashing me and then closing the thread (I'm referring to the discrimination to blacks thread here) is not conducive to discussion.

Also, I don't think you should make statements about how I do or do not understand asian culture. That's not something I should have to prove to you or anyone else. There are many asians who feel the same way I do about the issue, and to chalk up my "ignorant" opinions to the fact that I don't know what I'm talking about or don't understand asians, well, frankly I don't think you are qualified to make that statement about me at all.

[kasia]

Ok, fine, but if you are going to attack what I say you can at least allow me to respond. Bashing me and then closing the thread (I'm referring to the discrimination to blacks thread here) is not conducive to discussion.


you mean this thead? (http://forums.yellowworld.org/showthread.php?t=10242&page=2)

it hasn't been closed....

[coagulated fat]

Kasia: I do know that the vast majority of blacks in prison did indeed commit the crime they were convicted of. What I was referring to in my post was why so many blacks commit crimes, period -- not why many blacks were unjustly jailed. Rereading my post, I think I was a little unclear on that. But next time please don't assume I am just uninformed and talking out of my ass, contrary to popular belief I am indeed smarter than I look in my avatar.

[Fireblade]

it is closed.

[coagulated fat]

you mean this thead? (http://forums.yellowworld.org/showthread.php?t=10242&page=2)

it hasn't been closed....
It's closed to me :cry:

[achtungbaby]

Ok, fine, but if you are going to attack what I say you can at least allow me to respond. Bashing me and then closing the thread (I'm referring to the discrimination to blacks thread here) is not conducive to discussion.There was a reason why I closed the thread, and be rest assured, it wasn't to avoid debating with u.[/quote]

Also, I don't think you should make statements about how I do or do not understand asian culture.I don't recall doing this. I said you were making ignorant and indifferent statements, and they had less to do with a lack of cultural, more to do with...you guessed it, ignorance and indifference.

If you spent five minutes on the net researching Asian issues you'd be much further along now than you already are.

[kasia]

Kasia: I do know that the vast majority of blacks in prison did indeed commit the crime they were convicted of. What I was referring to in my post was why so many blacks commit crimes, period -- not why many blacks were unjustly jailed. Rereading my post, I think I was a little unclear on that. But next time please don't assume I am just uninformed and talking out of my ass, contrary to popular belief I am indeed smarter than I look in my avatar.

you said "innocent blacks accused of crimes left and right." i didn't have to make any assumptions to interpret that statement.

unless you meant "innocent" in a metaphysical sense or something. but then "innocence" as a concept would lose its meaning, would it not?

[achtungbaby]

It's totally another to get out and educate people. You can't effectively take a stand by yourself. You can take a stand, but more people will notice a crowd in a picket line then only one guy. So you do need a group. And to get into the group you have to sign your rights to independent thought away.This is one of the reasons why I'm frankly fed up with this lazy ignorance that's permeated the threads recently. You speak as if you know what you're talking about, when you don't. I don't sit here and presume to know how little effort you put into working things out with Asian student groups at Maryland -- because I have no friggen idea! And I certainly know I'm not smart enough or wise enough to think I can put myself in your shoes and judge you.[/QUOTE]

[coagulated fat]

you said "innocent blacks accused of crimes left and right." i didn't have to make any assumptions to interpret that statement.

unless you meant "innocent" in a metaphysical sense or something. but then "innocence" as a concept would lose its meaning, would it not?
Accused, not convicted.

[coagulated fat]

Why not just put a t-shirt on yourself that says, "I've got a pedestrian level of understanding Asians, so don't mind me when I minimize their issues or lives."

[kasia]

Accused, not convicted.

i wrote "accused", and i meant "accused".

[coagulated fat]

i wrote "accused", and i meant "accused".
No, I'm talking about what I meant. Saying innocent blacks are accused left and right is different than saying innocent blacks are jailed left and right.

[coagulated fat]

oy oy oy. who the fuck cares now? can we just agree, on a simple and general basis, that all people of color get fucked over? huh? huh? and that people who are wary of activist groups, are either very burnt out or just were never involved in it at all, making blunt assumptions about liberal activism in the first place?

love,
prof. frink
Deal.

All people of color get fucked over, some just get more fucked over than others. That's all I'm sayin.

[SunWuKong]

it is closed.

i've re-opened it. here. (http://forums.yellowworld.org/showthread.php?p=172790#post172790)

[achtungbaby]

I was speaking figuratively. I didn't mean that you should actually wear such a t-shirt.

[tapestrybabe]

I hear about AA issues all the time from my Asian relatives, and after a while I just get jaded/bored of hearing about it, maybe because it doesn't affect me as much. I don't like hearing my white side bashed and presented as racist all the time.
as an adoptee, i come from a multi racial family...
i have a sister whose white and a brother whose black...
and yeah, sometimes i feel its bothersome when i hear about white and blacks being presented as racist... i mean hey, your talking about my family...

altho that still cant blind me from what other asian ppl experience...
and what the asian american community has experienced
throughout history up until now...
and i'm actually kinda the opposite...
i'm quite new to asian american issues...
and i've grown to take a keen interest to it...

its the rest of my family...
that has kinda showed a lack of interest to it all...

[coagulated fat]

I hear about AA issues all the time from my Asian relatives, and after a while I just get jaded/bored of hearing about it, maybe because it doesn't affect me as much. I don't like hearing my white side bashed and presented as racist all the time.
In my defense my stance on the subject has changed considerably in my time at YW.

[achtungbaby]

In my defense my stance on the subject has changed considerably in my time at YW.Ahhh, finally some encouragement:)

[John0101]

To me, if you simply choose to ignore AA issues then it's kinda of saything that it's ok to accept differences in society. Let's pretend you just saw a kid steal a money from an old lady, and you didn't do anything about it. To the old lady it looks like you really didn't care about her getting robbed. To the kid, he felt like that what he did was ok because nobody told him to stop.

Don't forget, there is no black race or white race, we are all humans. Something which affects one of us affects all of us in some way or another.

[BeTheReds]

This is one of the reasons why I'm frankly fed up with this lazy ignorance that's permeated the threads recently. You speak as if you know what you're talking about, when you don't.

Well, you are probably right. Being that my experience with Asian-American activism seems to be very isolated by many people's accounts. My experience at U of M was mainly dealing with an organization which looked for stuff to be angry about at the drop of a hat, in addition to BS resume building material for the officers to put on grad school applications or somehow work into future careers. A lot of cheating was occuring to make the organization appear to be doing a lot more than it actually was, and to also make it appear that they had more members than they actually did, in order to increase funding, which was based on a use it or lose it type of atmosphere, so at the end of the year they would have to throw some rediculous party and spend $3000 on it, and then lie about it when they apply for funding the next year.


I don't sit here and presume to know how little effort you put into working things out with Asian student groups at Maryland -- because I have no friggen idea! And I certainly know I'm not smart enough or wise enough to think I can put myself in your shoes and judge you.

Well thanks, but dealing with them was very very frustrating. And simply because I disagreed with them sometimes, they would deliberately try to make things difficult for me when I needed their help. Whenever I came up with any idea it was immediately shot down, only to be suggested again by someone else and wholehearteldly approved. That kind of thing is frustrating. The infighting and politics combined with the BS are what drove me away and gave me a bad impression of Asian-American activism in general. Perhaps I was too quick to judge.

[achtungbaby]

Well, you are probably right. Being that my experience with Asian-American activism seems to be very isolated by many people's accounts. My experience at U of M was mainly dealing with an organization which looked for stuff to be angry about at the drop of a hat, in addition to BS resume building material for the officers to put on grad school applications or somehow work into future careers. A lot of cheating was occuring to make the organization appear to be doing a lot more than it actually was, and to also make it appear that they had more members than they actually did, in order to increase funding, which was based on a use it or lose it type of atmosphere, so at the end of the year they would have to throw some rediculous party and spend $3000 on it, and then lie about it when they apply for funding the next year.And I would bet there are a ton of other Asian student organizations in the same league as the one you had to deal with. But to me, it sounds very similar to a lot of the complaints I used to hear about church: it bills itself as this safe haven for all people without BS, blah blah blah...turns out to be shadier than ya ever imagined...and not to condone all of the crap that some churches promote right now, but I think it's totally unfair for people to become so entrenched in their personal, isolated feelings.

I suppose I could have gotten very discouraged by student government in college, because when I first got introduced to it, it was a particularly corrupt lil' and divisive institution. Everyone was doing the most underhanded crap to each other, and the last thing I felt was that any of them actually sincerely cared about other students. Didn't mean I had to constantly act in a way that was responsive to that, whether negative or positive.

The infighting and politics combined with the BS are what drove me away and gave me a bad impression of Asian-American activism in general. Perhaps I was too quick to judge.I sincerely don't think what you came into contact with was anything close to "activism" whether Asian or not. In my experiences, activists are generally very friggen friendly types of people, because almost by default, if they're supporting progressive or even liberal stuff, it's generally crap that's supposed to be inclusive, positive, supportive, etc.

That, and a whole lot of other stuff is why I wouldn't call myself an "activist." I probably don't have the patience, resilience, resolve or even etiquette for that stuff. Sometimes it's even more fun to just want to shoot things down...but I think I've done what I've done so far because there is some good in the world left, and it's worth fighting for...

(sorry, rambling. been watching two towers too much lately).