why are asian men so homophobic?

[thaite]

I'm not.

[deez nuts]

Now we have the homophobe stereotype. Man it just keeps adding up, doesnt it? Asian guys just can't get a break. And no, I am not homophobic.

[CrX3183]

i'm not, but i have a friend that's gay and sometimes i wonder what's going on in his head because he acts just like every other guy, but he just likes guys...

[achtungbaby]

Asian men are about as homophobic as any other, I would think.

[thaite]

Yeah, and as I said earlier, I'm not homophobic -- but overly effeminate men really annoy me, kind of in the same manner that girly girls do.

[DaBestSpooner]

I'm not homophobic,

a bj is a bj, its not gay as long as you dont reciprocate

[achtungbaby]

[quote:ecba0c18ef="buoywonder"]Yeah, and as I said earlier, I'm not homophobic -- but overly effeminate men really annoy me, kind of in the same manner that girly girls do.[/quote:ecba0c18ef]

Yep. Regarding being "flaming," a gay guy once told me that it wasn't necessary to be so..."on fire"...they're still guys, after all.

[SunWuKong]

it's really kind of funny... because as soon as you say "i'm not homophobic", it sounds like you're being defensive about it. so it's like a no-win situation.

[amietron]

i think some of it could be attributed to where you live.

the bay area is known for gays, the castro district, liberalness..
new york city is known for it's fast paced lifestyle, conservatives..
(or maybe that's just in my head?)

do you kinda get what i mean? someone from the bay area is probably more likely to openly accept a gay person than a new yorker, just because they're from the liberal bay?

[DaBestSpooner]

its all in your head. new york is so so gay, you cant even tell who's straight. it has become so hard to tell straight men and gay men apart by physical appearences cus both parties dress and look the same. We have it all, we have straight guys who hit the gym and get their bodies waxed and sport prada sneakers, to big gay ghetto thugs who rock the doo rags, and sean john velour tracksuits with matching air force 1's. We even have gay and lesbian street gangs. We're the fashion capital of the US. We have chelsea which used to be known as the "meat packing district"

being liberal doesnt have anything to do with being gay, otherwise we wouldnt have the gay republicans.

[quote:d0440fb6e4="amietron"]i think some of it could be attributed to where you live.

the bay area is known for gays, the castro district, liberalness..
new york city is known for it's fast paced lifestyle, conservatives..
(or maybe that's just in my head?)

do you kinda get what i mean? someone from the bay area is probably more likely to openly accept a gay person than a new yorker, just because they're from the liberal bay?[/quote:d0440fb6e4]

[SunWuKong]

hahhah gay republicans. i worked with a guy who by all accounts looks like a gay republican (that is, once you find out he's gay). but he's actually very liberal. yet i think he's one of the most conservatively dressed and groomed man i have ever known, gay or straight.

[deez nuts]

[quote:661fc6dedd="DaBestSpooner"]its all in your head. new york is so so gay, you cant even tell who's straight. it has become so hard to tell straight men and gay men apart by physical appearences cus both parties dress and look the same. We have it all, we have straight guys who hit the gym and get their bodies waxed and sport prada sneakers, to big gay ghetto thugs who rock the doo rags, and sean john velour tracksuits with matching air force 1's. We even have gay and lesbian street gangs. We're the fashion capital of the US. We have chelsea which used to be known as the "meat packing district"

being liberal doesnt have anything to do with being gay, otherwise we wouldnt have the gay republicans.

[quote:661fc6dedd="amietron"]i think some of it could be attributed to where you live.

the bay area is known for gays, the castro district, liberalness..
new york city is known for it's fast paced lifestyle, conservatives..
(or maybe that's just in my head?)

do you kinda get what i mean? someone from the bay area is probably more likely to openly accept a gay person than a new yorker, just because they're from the liberal bay?[/quote:661fc6dedd][/quote:661fc6dedd]

Yeah NY is very accepting of gay culture. if you ever come to NY, check out the village, or go to Fire Island (it's like 70-80% gay population). Heck check out the fashion district, like DaBestSpooner said.

If I'm not mistaken, a gay friend of mine told me that the whole gay pride thing started in a gay club/bar down in the village.

I never been to the bay area, I know there is a high gay population there. But I think the average NY'er is just as tolerant and accepting of gay culture here as the folks there.

[aexa]

i'm not homophobic ... none of my friends are either ... we're quite comfortable w/ who we are. i dont think asian men are particularly homophobic, but even the ones that are ... i think it has something to do with their upbringing. Considering how strict asian families usually are, i wouldn't be surprised if the children do turn out homophobic. i think it's something similar to how a lot of asian parents won't accept their children dating outside their race.

[DaBestSpooner]

my mom said that if I ever become gay, not to date black guys or white guys cus they spread aids.

[quote:c5810287b4="aexa"]i'm not homophobic ... none of my friends are either ... we're quite comfortable w/ who we are. i dont think asian men are particularly homophobic, but even the ones that are ... i think it has something to do with their upbringing. Considering how strict asian families usually are, i wouldn't be surprised if the children do turn out homophobic. i think it's something similar to how a lot of asian parents won't accept their children dating outside their race.[/quote:c5810287b4]

[DaBestSpooner]

one thing that bothers me about SF, that whole "gay friendly" sticker on stores. wtf is that? you dont see that anywhere else cept sf. when it comes down to it, most store owners could care less about orientation they only see dollar signs.

[kasia]

Or aren't they?

[ChinaLama]

I dunno, MOST people I know are pretty homophobic.

But if Asian men are PARTICULARLy homophobic, it's a reaction to our castration by The Man and hence our particular sensitivity to masculinity issues. Since gays are still seen as somewhat not masculine (not an Asian concept but rather just a societal one), then we Asian guys are gonna react strongly to that to guard our own masculinity.


BUT, when you look at all murders of homosexuals in the news, it wasn't Asians killing gays. So maybe Asians aren't that homophobic.

[SunWuKong]

well, it's like what i said in the old forum.

this is a no-win question in my opinion. as soon as you say "no i'm not homophobic", you sound like you're being defensive about it.

[ChinaLama]

and as soon as you say, "No I'm not homosexual," you sound as if you ARE homosexual but homophobic about it. Sigh, monkey king's right--it's no win. :(

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by ChinaLama@Aug 8 2002, 06:04 AM
and as soon as you say, "No I'm not homosexual," you sound as if you ARE homosexual but homophobic about it. Sigh, monkey king's right--it's no win. :(
i wonder if the reverse is experienced inside the gay and lesbian community

"no i'm not heterosexual." then it sounds like the gay person who said it is heterosexual but heterophobic about it.

[aexa]

haha...same...my mom said not to ever come home w/ a black/white girl ... actually ... i think for some reason, my parents might view white as more acceptable than black ... weird ...

that sticker thing u said? ... its like the city is advertising: "OK ... we've decided to be open to gays ... now stop bitching to us about it!"
if u genuinely were friendly to gays, u wouldnt need stickers and stuff ... makes the whole thing kinda phony ...

[DaBestSpooner]

its fucking rediculous, totally redundant

[quote:9efa03e43b="aexa"]
that sticker thing u said? ... its like the city is advertising: "OK ... we've decided to be open to gays ... now stop bitching to us about it!"
if u genuinely were friendly to gays, u wouldnt need stickers and stuff ... makes the whole thing kinda phony ...[/quote:9efa03e43b]

[aexa]

word ... :)

[Shuriken]

This question — in one way or another — probably has something to do with the paucity of Asian male romantic leads in the media. When the media constantly show Asian women being attracted exclusively to non-Asian men, and with gay-Asian-themed works like M. Butterfly and The Wedding Banquet achieving such high profiles, I suppose that this must foster the perception among the mainstream that Asian guys just aren't interested in women, period. It's easy to see how this could lead to a misdirected backlash against gay people.

Article worth reading: "The Woman Warrior vs. the Chinaman Pacific: Must a Chinese American Critic Choose Between Feminism and Heroism?" by King-Kok Cheung...

[achtungbaby]

Originally posted by Shuriken@Aug 10 2002, 12:05 AM
...I suppose that this must foster the perception among the mainstream that Asian guys just aren't interested in women, period.
Or, that more traditional Asian males are all sexist and beat up women. I hear this a lot from non-Asians arguing on the side of choice, equality, *love*...(not culture).

[artsfartsyjanet]

Actually, I think regardless of race, many men are homophobic because of the way they were raised. Men who tend to be more homophobic may have been raised in a family where the parents would tell the son what a boy should and shouldn't do. So, the degree to how gender roles are taught and societal pressures may have something to do with it.

[skatergrl]

Asian men are very homophobic, and the funny thing is that there are quite a few gay asian men out there, in fact, a lot!!!!!!

[Emperor_Mike]

I am against discrimination of any type and am a fervent advocate of social and political tolerance. However, let's not make wild assumptions that there are many homophobic Asian men. That's hardly a fair judgement to make and really, none of us have the prerogative to label such a large segment of the population on the account of experiences and/or sour encounters. Resorting to that brand of recourse makes us no better than those who make unfounded generalisations based on race, culture, or creed.

[skatergrl]

Emperor Mike:

I see your point and maybe should not have made that assumption. But yes, I have had nothing, and I repeat nothing but sour encounters with homophobic asian men. If you would read what people are posting, you will see that most of the homophobic remarks that are being made, are by men. You may ask how will I know that it is a guy.......it's pretty obvious. Straight women are much more friendly towards the gay community, wouldn't you agree? I speak from experiences and experiences only. I have been out for 7 years now. I have encountered both the gay friendly and homophobic crowds, and I have to say, most of the people (not all) that are homophobic towards me and other gay people that are with me, are in fact straight asian men. It's just a fact in my experiences. But yes, there are the few open minded straight asian men out there. Unfotunately I have never encountered any of them. :frown:

[Emperor_Mike]

Originally posted by skatergrl@Jun 25 2003, 02:57 PM
Emperor Mike:

I see your point and maybe should not have made that assumption. But yes, I have had nothing, and I repeat nothing but sour encounters with homophobic asian men. If you would read what people are posting, you will see that most of the homophobic remarks that are being made, are by men. You may ask how will I know that it is a guy.......it's pretty obvious. Straight women are much more friendly towards the gay community, wouldn't you agree? I speak from experiences and experiences only. I have been out for 7 years now. I have encountered both the gay friendly and homophobic crowds, and I have to say, most of the people (not all) that are homophobic towards me and other gay people that are with me, are in fact straight asian men. It's just a fact in my experiences. But yes, there are the few open minded straight asian men out there. Unfotunately I have never encountered any of them. :frown:
Homophobia is a persistent problem and I am sure that your disagreeable encounters have been sufficiently unpleasant to alter your views of Asian men. The same also can be said of men of any culture, if we wish to expand upon the topic of aversions to alternate lifestyles. We must be cautious in our opinions and confront issues in such a manner that we do not allow ourselves to be clouded by negative matters, to the detriment of the better side of the spectrum. Promoting the concept of open-mindedness goes both ways which means everyone should adopt a position free of instances were judgements are passed prematurely. The issue of homophobia is like a barrell filled with apples. Half are rotten, half are edible. If the rotten ones are on top and you fail to sort through them to get to the good ones at the bottom, you'll miss out. See? It's really quite simple. :)

[skatergrl]

Emperor Mike:

Yes, I see what you are saying, and will try to take your advice. But it is hard for me allow straight asian men into my life, due to past and ongoing experiences that I am sure to have. Not trying to be negative or have a negative outlook, but it's just hard when all you get is bashing after bashing. Negative comments left and right. I also *feel* that straight asian men are not necessarily homophobic to all lesbians....just the ones that are butch, and look like boys. I see them being especially nice to the femme ones. It's the butch ones that are experiencing homophobic remarks. The comments that are and were being made towards me were more like comments about the way that I look, rather than my sexual orientation. Lesbians are women, whether they be butch, femme, sporty, or whatever way they choose to be, they are still women, and they deserve to be treated with respect. It's really sad because I have to admit that I am heterophobic towards straight asian men. I can't stand to be around them, I get disguisted by them, and I automatically talk bad about them without even getting to know them. I think they are annoying, and self-centered. I wish that I could change that, but it's hard now because everytime I give someone (a straight asian man) a chance to be my friend, or just talk to them, I experience yet another homophobic remark, look, or action against me. It just makes me want to slap them across their face. It's just like people who say they are homophobic or get disguisted of gay people, or gay men....well, the same for me....i get disguisted of straight men (mostly asian).

[Emperor_Mike]

Originally posted by skatergrl@Jun 25 2003, 03:24 PM
Emperor Mike:

Yes, I see what you are saying, and will try to take your advice. But it is hard for me allow straight asian men into my life, due to past and ongoing experiences that I am sure to have. Not trying to be negative or have a negative outlook, but it's just hard when all you get is bashing after bashing. Negative comments left and right. I also *feel* that straight asian men are not necessarily homophobic to all lesbians....just the ones that are butch, and look like boys. I see them being especially nice to the femme ones. It's the butch ones that are experiencing homophobic remarks. The comments that are and were being made towards me were more like comments about the way that I look, rather than my sexual orientation. Lesbians are women, whether they be butch, femme, sporty, or whatever way they choose to be, they are still women, and they deserve to be treated with respect. It's really sad because I have to admit that I am heterophobic towards straight asian men. I can't stand to be around them, I get disguisted by them, and I automatically talk bad about them without even getting to know them. I think they are annoying, and self-centered. I wish that I could change that, but it's hard now because everytime I give someone (a straight asian man) a chance to be my friend, or just talk to them, I experience yet another homophobic remark, look, or action against me. It just makes me want to slap them across their face. It's just like people who say they are homophobic or get disguisted of gay people, or gay men....well, the same for me....i get disguisted of straight men (mostly asian).
Enmities are a part of life and attempting change in an otherwise unchangeable individual will only bring about disappointment. There's a sense of inevitability in life as it pertains to meeting negative and hostile individuals. There are two ways to deal with this, of course. You can either confront them to try to get our point across, or you can ignore them. Neither approach can be adopted to extreme, as different situations call for different recourses. This is where you need to strengthed your abilities to differentiate between things that are worth pursuing and things that are not. Deal with hostility borne of hatred and mistrust of your sexual preference with a careful eye and realise that with the widespread problem of homophobia in society you cannot expect to confront all matters and emerge victorious in every instance.

Another thing, verbal insults are words; nothing more. Try not to let them scathe and drive you into a frenzy of intolerance, combatitive and retributive moods. It's your life to live and if you allow the smallest thing to get the better of you then you've already lost because there is no escaping the foolish and the spiteful. It'll be an ongoing battle with no end in sight. There are times that require you to fight back and there will be times where letting things go is the best course of action you can adopt. Again, it's up to you to decide when to do what.

As for being disgusted with straight men, I hope I'm not offending you in any way. ;) The Enlightened do exist. :D

[skatergrl]

Emperor Mike:

No, you are not offending me at all. Actually, you are opening my eyes to a lot. It's just unfortunate that others (U.T. & C.L.) cannot be like you. It's people like them that I find truly disguisting, annoying, self-centered, and overall just a pain to deal with and be around. The thing is I can respect a guy who can respect me, but I can't respect or even awknowledge a guy who is just going to disrespect me. However, having said that.....I will try to keep the good and throw out the bad (your apple anology), and if you can spread the word to those like U.T. & C.L. that verbally bashing gay people is not going to make them a better person, but in fact they are causing the greater population of gays & lesbians to hate straight asian men without even getting to know them first. I hope that makes sense. ;)

[Emperor_Mike]

Originally posted by skatergrl@Jun 26 2003, 09:30 AM
Emperor Mike:

No, you are not offending me at all. Actually, you are opening my eyes to a lot. It's just unfortunate that others (U.T. & C.L.) cannot be like you. It's people like them that I find truly disguisting, annoying, self-centered, and overall just a pain to deal with and be around. The thing is I can respect a guy who can respect me, but I can't respect or even awknowledge a guy who is just going to disrespect me. However, having said that.....I will try to keep the good and throw out the bad (your apple anology), and if you can spread the word to those like U.T. & C.L. that verbally bashing gay people is not going to make them a better person, but in fact they are causing the greater population of gays & lesbians to hate straight asian men without even getting to know them first. I hope that makes sense. ;)
It makes sense and thanks for your reply. I feel very please and humbled at the same time to learn that my words have served you some purpose. Tolerance is something that takes time to adopt and its Master can either teach with a gentle hand or with pain and suffering. Certain lessons in life are best imparted with tragedy, I suppose. But be kind and be tolerant with everyone you meet here on YW and in real life too, for that matter. Unless you find yourself in an untenable situation where confrontation is inevitable, it's best to walk away. Struggles without tangible post-conflict gains is usually not worth your time.

In any case, have a poke around the other forums. We're quite a lively bunch with much to talk about. :) If you experience difficulties with other members, you can always bring it to the attention of one of the Mods. Just don't jump into the same ship and trade barbs. There's this saying that's been going around the Internet for quite some time:

"Arguing online is like being in the Special Olympics. Even if you win you're still retarded."

Politically incorrect, but it gets the point across. :)

[skatergrl]

Emperor Mike:

:D

You have my respect!!!

[kuanyin]

i know great asian men who are supportive of me. that doesn't mean they haven't hurt me in the past. but we've gotten angry at each other and hashed things out.

but i trust these men are aware enough to check their sh!t.

but i don't trust straight asian men off the bat. i don't trust anyone off the bat for that matter. i need to have some real conversations before putting people on a level of trust.

[RasFarengi]

I've encountered homophobic Asian men, but they are usually Asian nationals or 1st generation ones, maybe others are homophobic too, but the new arrivals or the Asians in Asia see nothing wrong with admitting it, and condeming homosexuality.  When I lived in Asia, especially in Japan, there were homosexuals on TV, they were typically on comedy shows and were made fun of...but I never heard of any violence concerning homosexuals.

I am not homophobic as in I hate gay people or fear them.  I actually had a gay roommate once apon a time, who was a nice guy, but he wasn't very effeminate and didn't bring his lover, boyfriend, whatever around me, so I didn't care.

I personally don't like homosexual behavior around me, and I will leave it at that, and I think on average most black men I know are more homophobic than Asians, and especially Carribean folks and Africans (well depends on where in Africa, but most of the ones I know) tend to really really dislike homosexuals, and some see no problem in getting violent with them.  I don't agree with that, that is just barbaric, but...I think outside of Western countries, most countries in the world are not too accepting of gays and lesbians...

[hooligan]

<!--QuoteBegin-dac+Jul 30 2003, 10:10 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (dac @ Jul 30 2003, 10:10 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I have nothing against gays, I have three gay friendz ... one Filipino, and a white guy (well ... haven't spoken to him since he moved), and one black guy I've met via work.

Off Topic: But gays should have the very same rights as heterosexuals like marriage. Sux really. [/b][/quote]
yeah, bush wants to destroy all the gains that we've made during the civil rights era and women's rights as well.&nbsp; we're going to good old days when white men were men and everyone else ... well ... everyone else lived in their own countries.

as for the topic, it might have a lot to do the with the effeminization (sp?) of asian men already.&nbsp; a lot of asian guys just need to feel the reassert their "maleness" every chance they get.&nbsp; when i have more time i'll read through the rest of the posts with better responses.&nbsp; here i go spamming more threads ... whee...