The Drive to Mix

[kimpossible]

Where does the desire to have a mixed Asian child come from? Or moreover, why do some people of other races want to mix with Asians in particular? I'm sure it happens with all other ethnicities, there's no doubt that it exists for them also but since we're on Yellowworld let's attack from the angle of why some non-Asian people seem to have an abnormal drive to have a child with some Asian ethnicity. If there's something special or cool about being part Asian, I missed the point. I'm not hating on being Asian, I'd just like to think I'd be happy with myself no matter what race(s) I was.

My initial guess is that it's romanticized ideal about being Asian + other race. It seems to be a popular theme of the racial misfit, the child who must span two cultures but fits wholly into neither. Do you think we are sometimes commodified? And if a romanticized hapa figure exists, what is the appeal of this idea?

We've touched on this before in a variety of ways but I'd like to look at this from more than just a modern sociological angle. Are there historical factors? What about representation of the mixed race Asian character in different medium; books and theatre as well as television and movies? Are there stereotypes that pursue us that differ from the stereotypes of (full-blooded) Asians?

[thaite]

Damn, I think I'm missing out on something!

I think people really do buy into the best of both worlds idea. I think they find mixes exotic, but not so foreign that they are alienated -- I hope I'm coming across with this concisely. I think people want to be different, or their kids to be beautiful and different, but not so different that people will find it difficult to accept them.

I'm gonna go think about this some more.

[kimpossible]

I want to get some more opinions in here first, but I have some personal theories relating to history, trade and colonization. I think the best of both worlds thing is recently born idea, probably closely linked timewise to the release of Doubles but the exotic angle is more from post-war eras/war babies.

[YuheiCarreau]

IMO it springs from the "Asian = exotic" stereotype. Whenever I hear the "I wanna have mixed kids!" thing from monoracials, it basically comes from that person being something of a culture tourist and feeling that the best thing she could do is give her kids an extra culture to change into whenever they feel like (ha!). Accordingly, the people I've heard it from the most are White women (none of whom wanted to actually date the Asian men necessary for making a half Asian baby :rolleyes: ).

Basically it boils down to "if my baby is mixed, he or she will be part Asian exotic, mysterious, good at math, but still White good, strong, normal" Same for the few Black women I've heard talking about it. I've never heard men talking about it, but then men don't talk about babies anyway; I've never met an Asian woman who wanted mixed kids, but then until quite recently the only Asians I interacted with were FOB Japanese.

I also find it mildly offensive when monoracial people in an interracial relationship presume that they will be able to shape the racial identity of their children to match their own or that they understand what it's like to be mixed.

[thaite]

Originally posted by YuheiCarreau@Apr 8 2003, 11:36 AM
...the people I've heard it from the most are White women (none of whom wanted to actually date the Asian men necessary for making a half Asian baby :rolleyes: ).

...I've never met an Asian woman who wanted mixed kids
dude, I've met plenty of both of those.

Problem with the latter is that even though they've romanticized mixes enough to want mixed kids, hapas still aren't white enough to wanna date.

[YuheiCarreau]

Originally posted by thaite@Apr 8 2003, 01:20 PM
Originally posted by YuheiCarreau@Apr 8 2003, 11:36 AM
...the people I've heard it from the most are White women (none of whom wanted to actually date the Asian men necessary for making a half Asian baby :rolleyes: ).

...I've never met an Asian woman who wanted mixed kids
dude, I've met plenty of both of those.

Problem with the latter is that even though they've romanticized mixes enough to want mixed kids, hapas still aren't white enough to wanna date.
Oh, I'm sure they exist, I've just never had a chance to talk to any. Asian or AA women who want mixed kids probably have a different attitude from what I described (though if they're Whitewashed, maybe not...), but I've never met any so I only know what it's like with Whites and Blacks.

[Hiroshi2]

Yeah I agree it's the exoticism of having an "asian baby with pretty eyes" or with black folks, "good hair". Maybe self-hate for one's own race has something to do with it, maybe it doesn't. Like I said, most likely it's just the romanticization of a foreign culture.

I have never understood why so-called "monoracials" (that's a funny word) think that a biracial child will fit into both cultures. In my experience, if anything, a mixed child will fit into neither culture.

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by YuheiCarreau@Apr 8 2003, 01:36 PM
Accordingly, the people I've heard it from the most are White women (none of whom wanted to actually date the Asian men necessary for making a half Asian baby :rolleyes: ).
i'm kind of the reverse in this regard. i don't want to make babies with white women, but i want to have sex with them.

hahhah no just kidding. i wouldn't care if my kids are mixed as long as they speak chinese.

[YuheiCarreau]

Originally posted by Hiroshi2@Apr 8 2003, 05:03 PM
Yeah I agree it's the exoticism of having an "asian baby with pretty eyes" or with black folks, "good hair". Maybe self-hate for one's own race has something to do with it, maybe it doesn't. Like I said, most likely it's just the romanticization of a foreign culture.

I have never understood why so-called "monoracials" (that's a funny word) think that a biracial child will fit into both cultures. In my experience, if anything, a mixed child will fit into neither culture.
I think it's a good word to use, at least in this situation. When talking about how biracial people are regarded by monoracials, if you seperate them out by race you start falling into the rhetoric associated with monoracial-monoracial race relations, which don't necessarily apply. Monoracials who want mixed kids have different reasons depending on their own race, as you point out, but in most cases the 'best of both worlds' idea is at the heart of the matter.

[Hiroshi2]

Originally posted by YuheiCarreau@Apr 8 2003, 05:22 PM
Originally posted by Hiroshi2@Apr 8 2003, 05:03 PM
Yeah I agree it's the exoticism of having an "asian baby with pretty eyes" or with black folks, "good hair". Maybe self-hate for one's own race has something to do with it, maybe it doesn't. Like I said, most likely it's just the romanticization of a foreign culture.

I have never understood why so-called "monoracials" (that's a funny word) think that a biracial child will fit into both cultures. In my experience, if anything, a mixed child will fit into neither culture.
I think it's a good word to use, at least in this situation. When talking about how biracial people are regarded by monoracials, if you seperate them out by race you start falling into the rhetoric associated with monoracial-monoracial race relations, which don't necessarily apply. Monoracials who want mixed kids have different reasons depending on their own race, as you point out, but in most cases the 'best of both worlds' idea is at the heart of the matter.
But that's just the thing. I have NEVER understood this "best of both worlds" crap. It simply baffles me, it really does. But this is from the perspective of someone who's obviously been labeled that all my life, I bet you've heard that before too.

[YuheiCarreau]

Originally posted by Hiroshi2@Apr 8 2003, 05:51 PM
But that's just the thing. I have NEVER understood this "best of both worlds" crap. It simply baffles me, it really does. But this is from the perspective of someone who's obviously been labeled that all my life, I bet you've heard that before too.
Oh, you know monoracial folk are crazy like that :D . I've given up trying to understand 'em.

[BeTheReds]

I think people want to have multiracial kids because they married someone who is a different race than they are, plain and simple.

Strangely enough, I have heard more asian women say that they want mixed kids than i have heard white women say it.

As for fitting into both cultures, i think that also depends on the person in question, and what effort his or her parents put forth to make him a part of their culture, and how important it is for the child to want to fit somewhere.

I think it is rediculous to say that the child won't fit in somewhere, cuz we all know you basically lean one way or the other.

[YuheiCarreau]

Originally posted by BeTheReds@Apr 8 2003, 07:05 PM
As for fitting into both cultures, i think that also depends on the person in question, and what effort his or her parents put forth to make him a part of their culture, and how important it is for the child to want to fit somewhere.

I think it is rediculous to say that the child won't fit in somewhere, cuz we all know you basically lean one way or the other.
Yeah, but as you have pointed out numerous times, even if you do identify with only one race that doesn't mean the other members of that race automatically identify you as such. Fitting in has as much to do with how quickly people accept you as it does your identity.

[kimpossible]

Originally posted by thaite@Apr 8 2003, 10:12 AM
I think people really do buy into the best of both worlds idea. I think they find mixes exotic, but not so foreign that they are alienated -- I hope I'm coming across with this concisely. I think people want to be different, or their kids to be beautiful and different, but not so different that people will find it difficult to accept them.
Yeah, that's interesting. Especially the idea of exotic but not to the point of alienation. I think you nailed a really important distinction there.

[Craig]

Honestly, do you think that most people put that much conscious thought into these decisions. I know it sounds bad to say that, but still.

[kimpossible]

Originally posted by Craig@Apr 8 2003, 06:56 PM
Honestly, do you think that most people put that much conscious thought into these decisions. I know it sounds bad to say that, but still.
Not most people, no.

[YuheiCarreau]

Originally posted by Craig@Apr 8 2003, 08:56 PM
Honestly, do you think that most people put that much conscious thought into these decisions. I know it sounds bad to say that, but still.
Well, I was talking about this kinda stuff with my dad recently and he said one reason he wanted to have 4 kids was to make sure there'd be enough of us so we didn't feel alone in the world. But you're right, most people probably just drop trou and go at it...

[Hiroshi2]

Originally posted by YuheiCarreau@Apr 8 2003, 10:55 PM
Well, I was talking about this kinda stuff with my dad recently and he said one reason he wanted to have 4 kids was to make sure there'd be enough of us so we didn't feel alone in the world. But you're right, most people probably just drop trou and go at it...
Funny that you should say that. My parents only had two of us, and I have to admit that now that I think about it, I've never met anyone else who was mixed black/japanese, or even black/asian. So I guess I do feel a little alone....... ;) *shrugs*

[BeTheReds]

But the thing is, when you meet those people, you're still gonna feel alone.

[Hiroshi2]

Originally posted by BeTheReds@Apr 9 2003, 09:16 PM
But the thing is, when you meet those people, you're still gonna feel alone.
Yeah maybe so but it'd be weird to meet someone who went through experiences very much like mine, especially considering that no I know ever has (there are similarities, especially with people who may also be biracial but not hapa or whatever). ;)

[YuheiCarreau]

Originally posted by BeTheReds@Apr 9 2003, 09:16 PM
But the thing is, when you meet those people, you're still gonna feel alone.
Well, I wouldn't say I felt alone after meeting other Hapas, but each Hapa I meet has a different perspective from mine. There's two in my Japanese class, a guy and a girl (who I have asked out like 10 times already... :rolleyes: ). The guy is adamant that he's a Japanese American, not Japanese - in fact when I told him I don't think of myself as a JA, he seemed pretty annoyed, but he conceded when our teacher backed me up. The girl, though her father was as strong a nationalist as mine, was not raised around other Japanese and is sort of in that exploration stage about her identity. The few Hapas I knew growing up were each a bit different from me and my sisters, but overall I'd say that I have a lot more in common with any of those people than I do with most Japanese or most Whites... Of course, I've only ever known White-Japanese mixes, so I dunno how well I'd relate to other kinds of Hapas.

[AngryABCGirl]

Originally posted by YuheiCarreau@Apr 9 2003, 07:48 PM
Well, I wouldn't say I felt alone after meeting other Hapas, but each Hapa I meet has a different perspective from mine. There's two in my Japanese class, a guy and a girl (who I have asked out like 10 times already... :rolleyes: ). The guy is adamant that he's a Japanese American, not Japanese - in fact when I told him I don't think of myself as a JA, he seemed pretty annoyed, but he conceded when our teacher backed me up. The girl, though her father was as strong a nationalist as mine, was not raised around other Japanese and is sort of in that exploration stage about her identity. The few Hapas I knew growing up were each a bit different from me and my sisters, but overall I'd say that I have a lot more in common with any of those people than I do with most Japanese or most Whites... Of course, I've only ever known White-Japanese mixes, so I dunno how well I'd relate to other kinds of Hapas.
I don't know if this is completely relevant, but the Hapas I know all go with me to our mostly Asian school, and they don't even see themselves as white. When we ever talk about culture they'll just reply, "Oh I'm Japanese, or I'm Chinese, or I'm Korean." They deny that other part of them, I think because the rest the people around them is very soaked into the Asian community and Asian aggressive attitude around them.

I've only met one guy who said he has "Hapa pride," but admits he isn't involved in either his Mexican or Japanese heritaged and is just pretty Americanized. I don't know if that's all true though or what to think of that.

[Tao]

most of my mixed friends identify with the race they prodominately look like. This one friend, she's half japanese half portuguese, but looks asian, only lighter skinned, hangs out mostly with us asian groups and other eastern minorites. While my other mixed friend, her dad is chinese, and her mom is hispanic, she, as well as her sister, both look hispanic, so they tend to hang out with darker-skinned minorites. So i guess in the cases i've experienced, mixed children identify with what soceity views them as.

[Hiroshi2]

Originally posted by Tao@Apr 10 2003, 12:23 AM
most of my mixed friends identify with the race they prodominately look like. This one friend, she's half japanese half portuguese, but looks asian, only lighter skinned, hangs out mostly with us asian groups and other eastern minorites. While my other mixed friend, her dad is chinese, and her mom is hispanic, she, as well as her sister, both look hispanic, so they tend to hang out with darker-skinned minorites. So i guess in the cases i've experienced, mixed children identify with what soceity views them as.
Maybe so but part of the reason why I mostly associate with blacks is not neccessarily because that's what I look like, but because I grew up in a black neighborhood around black people all my life. I fit in pretty well, I admit, with my looks, and I sometimes wonder what it would be like if I had grown up in Japan, obviously sticking out like a sore thumb. ;)

[kimpossible]

Originally posted by Hiroshi2@Apr 10 2003, 02:11 PM
Maybe so but part of the reason why I mostly associate with blacks is not neccessarily because that's what I look like, but because I grew up in a black neighborhood around black people all my life. I fit in pretty well, I admit, with my looks, and I sometimes wonder what it would be like if I had grown up in Japan, obviously sticking out like a sore thumb. ;)
This is something I've become envious of; not that I remotely have a hold of blasian issues but it seems like you guys enjoy a much better experience with the community of your non-Asian race. Maybe I'm not seeing it correctly or I'm looking at it too simplistically?

[Hiroshi2]

Originally posted by Hello_Hapa@Apr 10 2003, 04:32 PM
This is something I've become envious of; not that I remotely have a hold of blasian issues but it seems like you guys enjoy a much better experience with the community of your non-Asian race. Maybe I'm not seeing it correctly or I'm looking at it too simplistically?
Actually, I always thought "eurasians" had it better as far as being accepted by asians....though I know this isn't always true.

With black people, though, generally because blacks are already mixed up anyway, most mixies whether it be black/white, black/latino or even black/asian are accepted as black as long as they act "black" or just generally fit in with other blacks. *shrugs*


I may be speaking out of ignorance, but maybe it's a tradeoff: eurasians better accepted by asians than blasians, blasians more accepted by non-asian family than eurasian and less than eurasians.

Whoa, that kinda hurt my brain thinking so much.

[speshllkay]

Ever met any mixed kids who just thought they were the shit because they were mixed? These are those peoples kids. Lol. I've met plenty. And then what's really funny is they don't know shit about their hertitage. They just want to lay claim to is because it's "cool".