How many of you think of yourselves as American?

[AngryABCGirl]

How American do you consider yourselves as Asian-American? Do you hold loyality to this country? Culturally?

Personality, I need to have my Asian or Chinese and the hyphen. I can't find myself holding on to a country that won't ever accept me and probably will never accept my kids. I didn't grow up doing stuff like watching baseball or having BBQs and things like that. I can usually relate to the way someone thinks in Taiwan than I can to an American.

A few days ago at school, I heard this S. Korean guy saying how "we should snipe his ass" about the new S. K president just because he was anti-American. A JA said he loved the republican country and thought America was so great.

Something about that felt to me, so fucking wrong. When I'm out of my neighborhood, I get looks, I can't take the "American way is the good and only way mentality" because I'm not that way.

[Xishi]

I feel you...

It gets on my nervous so much when people deny that they are Asian...at least racially...
I am talking about those Asians who answer"I is the AMERICAN!!!!" when people ask them where they are from...
I mean...true...they are probably American and were born here so they dont have to answer" I am from China"...but by getting all defensive about denying their racial association with Asians and answering "I am American" when they know that people are not asking about of what country their citizenship is of... is just plain insecure and a prime display of unreasonable inferiority complex...

[Commando_turned_MD]

Originally posted by AzNBuffGrL@Mar 23 2003, 12:35 AM
Do you hold loyality to this country? Culturally?

Yes..........
Yes............

[Ch8Li179]

I define myself as Chinese. Culturally I am Chinese and ethnic wise I am of course, Chinese. I was born an rasied in the bay area but, I just don't find myself relating much to the American culture. Then again "American Culture" is hard for me to define. When I watch T.V. I don't relate to the sitcoms.
Then there are times when an "American" that happens to be an European desendent tell me that I'm not an American and that I should not be here. Thats when I tell them I am an American. Being born here means I am an American citizen and I have the right to be here! It's not guarenteed that I will be treated fairly but, you know how that goes. It is so offensive when someone says "Go back to your own country!" Damn, just because someone's skin color is a color other then white does not make them any less American.
Why are there people out there that say they are American and tell other people that they are not? For example, they can be Irish American and yet they are "American" but, someone like myself being Chinese American is not "American." Who came up with that?

[AliBabaIncorporated]

I'm an American and a Malaysian Chinese ... but I'm not a Chinese-American.

to be honest I'm suspicious of anyone who would use the word "Chinese-American" in their writing or speech. the only time I usually see such a word is when a white guy obsessed with political correctness is writing about Asians. it's a word used in organizational titles, not by people to define themselves, who will usually just call themselves "ABCs" or "Chinese" or whatnot.

[kangal]

Originally posted by AzNBuffGrL@Mar 23 2003, 02:35 AM
How American do you consider yourselves as Asian-American? Do you hold loyality to this country? Culturally?

Personality, I need to have my Asian or Chinese and the hyphen. I can't find myself holding on to a country that won't ever accept me and probably will never accept my kids. I didn't grow up doing stuff like watching baseball or having BBQs and things like that. I can usually relate to the way someone thinks in Taiwan than I can to an American.

A few days ago at school, I heard this S. Korean guy saying how "we should snipe his ass" about the new S. K president just because he was anti-American. A JA said he loved the republican country and thought America was so great.

Something about that felt to me, so fucking wrong. When I'm out of my neighborhood, I get looks, I can't take the "American way is the good and only way mentality" because I'm not that way.
Just posing a question though, If you identify more with Taiwanese and hardly with Americans, then is tehre even a necessity for the -American part? When people already assume that America won't ever accept them, then I feel that is a defeatist attitude. The issue that confuses me is when people say they don't share American ideals or culture, or even identify with America. What does that mean? Not to sound rude, but does that mean you don't even want to be in America? I'm not trying to be antagonistic, but I'm trying to get a better understanding.

[kitty]

I think the term Asian-American refers to any Asian IN America... because we're in a country where we are an ethnic minority, we will have similar experiences and be similarly disenfranchised. So, yeah, I identify as Asian-American (the hyphen being necessary)... and even if you weren't born here and you don't identify a bit with white America, I think the American part is there for you because you are physically in a place where you are going to be discriminated against.

[YuheiCarreau]

Quick grammar question: Are you supposed to hyphenate? I was under the impression that Asian American, Jewish American, African American, etc were not hyphenated (and I prefer 'em that way).

[Danny]

I am only an American on the day when someone looks at me and does not see a man with Asiatic heritage first, but sees me as an American first.

[angelwiththesword]

i don't. i am canadian!

[Tao]

Originally posted by AzNBuffGrL@Mar 23 2003, 12:35 AM
Personality, I need to have my Asian or Chinese and the hyphen. I can't find myself holding on to a country that won't ever accept me and probably will never accept my kids. I didn't grow up doing stuff like watching baseball or having BBQs and things like that. I can usually relate to the way someone thinks in Taiwan than I can to an American.

I hear you on that one. Last summer, before I entered college I had wanted to get my citizenship (cause before I only had a green card) due to the financial aid process. And while I was filling out the form requests and stuff, I had realized I could legally change my name when I applied for citizenship. And somehow, this had startled me, cause it somehow meant choosing whether or not I truely wanted to "integrate" myself by adopting my english nickname (which is Tony) as my official first name, or whether I would keep my chinese name (the pronounciation of which every non-asian person slaughters) on my social security card. It was a tough decision for me cause I had wanted people in college to accept me, which a americanized name would, but then I also didn't want to appease them and change my given name (Chen Guang) just because "they" can't pronounce it.

So in the end I kept my first name of Chenguang and added Tony as my middle name, and of course kept my last name of Tao. What this all really means I have no idea, only that I somehow find it abandoning my family and heritage if I had changed it.

Um...now that I think about it, I really don't know if my response is releated to your quote :lol: oh well.

[angelwiththesword]

if i ever have kids, regardless of where they are born, i am giving them chinese names.

[AngryABCGirl]

Originally posted by kangal@Mar 23 2003, 08:29 AM
Originally posted by AzNBuffGrL@Mar 23 2003, 02:35 AM
How American do you consider yourselves as Asian-American?  Do you hold loyality to this country?  Culturally?

Personality, I need to have my Asian or Chinese and the hyphen.  I can't find myself holding on to a country that won't ever accept me and probably will never accept my kids.  I didn't grow up doing stuff like watching baseball or having BBQs and things like that.  I can usually relate to the way someone thinks in Taiwan than I can to an American.

A few days ago at school, I heard this S. Korean guy saying how "we should snipe his ass" about the new S. K president just because he was anti-American.  A JA said he loved the republican country and thought America was so great.  

Something about that felt to me, so fucking wrong.  When I'm out of my neighborhood, I get looks, I can't take the "American way is the good and only way mentality" because I'm not that way.
Just posing a question though, If you identify more with Taiwanese and hardly with Americans, then is tehre even a necessity for the -American part? When people already assume that America won't ever accept them, then I feel that is a defeatist attitude. The issue that confuses me is when people say they don't share American ideals or culture, or even identify with America. What does that mean? Not to sound rude, but does that mean you don't even want to be in America? I'm not trying to be antagonistic, but I'm trying to get a better understanding.
I think I have the -American part because after all, I'm an ABC, and even if I identify with Taiwanese culture more, there's still a part of me that was made because I live here. If I packed my bags and to Taiwan today, they problaby wouldn't see me as one of them either, just because people here carry themselves differently.

As for being an American, I don't like many aspects of American "culture." I put it in quotes, because it's so largely undefined, is American culture defined as BBQs and baseball games? Or the marble statues in DC? Or even rap music? The part I don't like is that mentality that the American way is the right way, cow-boy politics.

No thanks, I'd rather be Chinese than an honorary white.

[AliBabaIncorporated]

Originally posted by AzNBuffGrL@Mar 23 2003, 04:04 PM
As for being an American, I don't like many aspects of American "culture." I put it in quotes, because it's so largely undefined, is American culture defined as BBQs and baseball games? Or the marble statues in DC? Or even rap music?
Culture is just the collective shared experiences, attitudes, knowledge, and reference points of a group, expressed through daily interactions, social institutions, and the media, all under the umbrella of a specific language. Even if you can't define it down into words, American culture is still there making up a big part of the mentality of all of us who grew up in this country, by virtue of your participation in those daily interactions and social institutions with other Americans and your viewership of the media.

[Xishi]

For example, they can be Irish American and yet they are "American" but, someone like myself being Chinese American is not "American." Who came up with that?
I am only an American on the day when someone looks at me and does not see a man with Asiatic heritage first, but sees me as an American first.

This is the exact type of sentiments that I am talking about...
People wanting to deny the fact that they look apart from the mainstream and care so much about whether people see them as "American" or not...
I admire your idealism in that Asians should be seen as just as American as European Americans...which they are....but reality written on your face says that we obviously look different...and its really understandable that people see you as less American...at least by initial perception...
Really though..no need to even want to be seen just as "American" as the next Irish American...German American...
Besides...European Americans do not really have their own culture here in the USA that differentiates them from the mainstream culture...unlike Asians...
Why would you even care if people see you as "American"...?
Citizenship wise..yeah..I am technically an American too...but I always say that I am Chinese when people ask me what I am...because I am answering them what they are really wanting to ask and saving them from a second follow up question like"oh and where are your ancestors from" had I answered that I am "American"....

Actually...I enjoy people asking me where I am from...because it is something that I take pride in...
What makes me a little uncomfortable is actually when people try to be over-sensitive when asking the question and say something like "No offense...don't want to be rude..but can i ask where you are from...?" as if it is something that I should take shame in or something....
But this same sensitivity that discomforts me can also be attributed to people with the same views as the quoted above...
It is for people with those sentiments that probably get all defensive when asked about what they are that contributed to all this politically correct fuss...

*(Quotes were taken out of context to strengthen my views...no direct references to individuals whom they belong to intended...)

[SunWuKong]

at this point in my life i identify more as overseas chinese (hua ren or hua qiao) than chinese american or asian american. i've been kind of un-americanised after the 2 years i spent in HK. there are 34 million (http://www.library.ohiou.edu/subjects/shao/databases_popdis.htm) overseas chinese people around the world.

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by Xishi@Mar 23 2003, 08:25 PM
Really though..no need to even want to be seen just as "American" as the next Irish American...German American...
i agree. but at the same time, i feel as though what AzNBuffGrL and others like her are doing is a reactionary response to how mainstream america sees them. in that way, they are really letting others dictate how they identify themselves. and i think we need to move beyond that.

[AngryABCGirl]

Originally posted by SunWuKung@Mar 23 2003, 05:36 PM
i agree. but at the same time, i feel as though what AzNBuffGrL and others like her are doing is a reactionary response to how mainstream america sees them. in that way, they are really letting others dictate how they identify themselves. and i think we need to move beyond that.
What's wrong with a reactionary response? If I really let mainstream America dictate what I'm supposed to be and how to identify myself, I'd think I'm supposed to be, I'd feel like I'd have to be white, I'd want WM over anything else, I'd feel like I'd have to be silent, I'd have to study science, be the model minority, etc.

I'd rather act like who I am, even of part of it is a rebellion from what is 'expected' of me, and I'm sure a lot of people would agree with me. I'd rather be who I am than what I'm supposed to be. And maybe who I am is more Asian or hell AzN than American.

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by AzNBuffGrL@Mar 23 2003, 09:12 PM
What's wrong with a reactionary response?
i guess there's nothing wrong with it if you feel fine about that. personally i don't really like it and i feel like that's largely what the asian american identity is - a reactionary response. it's shaped according to what's happening in mainstream america, instead of developing by itself and for itself. and that's why i think the identity is so "thin".

[Xishi]

in that way, they are really letting others dictate how they identify themselves. and i think we need to move beyond that.

Wukung:

I get what you are saying....
I agree with you that displays of "Asian Pride" when used as a defensive reactionary response is in a sense just another form of passiveness...
From what I have read...I do not think that this is the case of Asianbuffgirl though...

personally i don't really like it and i feel like that's largely what the asian american identity is - a reactionary response. it's shaped according to what's happening in mainstream america, instead of developing by itself and for itself.

This is a very good point...
Ever noticed how the biggest "Asian pride AsyN prYde" brothers are usually ironically the ones that do not speak a word of any Asian languages...and get all defensive when people ask them about their heritage..? Those Asians are even more counter-productive for Asian progress here in America than those blatantly whitewashed invididuals in that they give a bad name to the people that are really willing to identify with their heritage...
They could care less about Asian progress yet somehowfound a way to employ and distort "Asian Pride" as a mask for their actual unreasonable inferiority complex...

You are right...our identity here in the US is extremely thin right now thanks to the contribution of those individuals in addition of the blatantly whitewashed denizens...

Shame...

[kangal]

Originally posted by AzNBuffGrL@Mar 23 2003, 08:12 PM
What's wrong with a reactionary response? If I really let mainstream America dictate what I'm supposed to be and how to identify myself, I'd think I'm supposed to be, I'd feel like I'd have to be white, I'd want WM over anything else, I'd feel like I'd have to be silent, I'd have to study science, be the model minority, etc.

I'd rather act like who I am, even of part of it is a rebellion from what is 'expected' of me, and I'm sure a lot of people would agree with me. I'd rather be who I am than what I'm supposed to be. And maybe who I am is more Asian or hell AzN than American.
The one encouraging thing I have started to notice is more and more people ask me what my heritage is instead of asking where I am from. I think that is a sign that we Asians are becoming more of the norm in terms of acceptance. As many on the board have surmised, I am more of an optimist towards acceptance of Asians. The only problem I feel with reactionary responses is that it may scare of those who are williing to accept. I feel that those who are ignorant will be more ready to accept and change if they aren't met with open reactionary responses.

[angel nympho]

I could live without the hyphen. I'm an American before anything else. This has nothing to do with pride in my roots or anything like that. It has to do with me having set foot in Korea no more than 3 times in my life... not knowing the language... not really taking part in anything culturally Korean... and not wanting to be some kind of poser about it.

[d-boy]

I used to think of myself as an American 100%. Having spent some time overseas though, it's sort of like my worldview or world paradigm has shifted, and i can't be bothered to try to fit into that category anymore.... it's too much work and feels too fake now.

i guess i now see myself as an Asian living in America. if i had to pick one country, however, to be loyal to, it would be the U.S.

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by dzoo@Mar 24 2003, 12:43 AM
I used to think of myself as an American 100%. Having spent some time overseas though, it's sort of like my worldview or world paradigm has shifted, and i can't be bothered to try to fit into that category anymore.... it's too much work and feels too fake now.

i guess i now see myself as an Asian living in America. if i had to pick one country, however, to be loyal to, it would be the U.S.
yes yes! i encourage all asian americans to try living in asia (i assume it was somewhere in asia when you said "overseas"?) for a period of time.

[tapestrybabe]

Originally posted by SunWuKung@Mar 24 2003, 12:54 AM
Originally posted by dzoo@Mar 24 2003, 12:43 AM
I used to think of myself as an American 100%.  Having spent some time overseas though, it's sort of like my worldview or world paradigm has shifted, and i can't be bothered to try to fit into that category anymore....  it's too much work and feels too fake now.

i guess i now see myself as an Asian living in America.  if i had to pick one country, however, to be loyal to, it would be the U.S.
yes yes! i encourage all asian americans to try living in asia (i assume it was somewhere in asia when you said "overseas"?) for a period of time.
i wanna visit korea so badly...

[golden_buns]

Originally posted by tapestrybabe@Mar 23 2003, 09:56 PM
i wanna visit korea so badly...
you should, I had a great time 2 years ago and I'm heading back in about 2 months. It's really fun and different

[d-boy]

Originally posted by SunWuKung@Mar 23 2003, 09:54 PM
Originally posted by dzoo@Mar 24 2003, 12:43 AM
I used to think of myself as an American 100%.  Having spent some time overseas though, it's sort of like my worldview or world paradigm has shifted, and i can't be bothered to try to fit into that category anymore....  it's too much work and feels too fake now.

i guess i now see myself as an Asian living in America.  if i had to pick one country, however, to be loyal to, it would be the U.S.
yes yes! i encourage all asian americans to try living in asia (i assume it was somewhere in asia when you said "overseas"?) for a period of time.
yeah, it was in East Asia.

[AngryABCGirl]

Originally posted by SunWuKung@Mar 23 2003, 09:54 PM
Originally posted by dzoo@Mar 24 2003, 12:43 AM
I used to think of myself as an American 100%.  Having spent some time overseas though, it's sort of like my worldview or world paradigm has shifted, and i can't be bothered to try to fit into that category anymore....  it's too much work and feels too fake now.

i guess i now see myself as an Asian living in America.  if i had to pick one country, however, to be loyal to, it would be the U.S.

(i assume it was somewhere in asia when you said "overseas"?) for a period of time.
Ironically living in Shanghai for several weeks made me think of myself more Taiwanese than anything because of my mannerisms. Most of the cab drivers said they thought I was Taiwenese because of the way I spoke Mandarin more than anything. When I walked around it, it seemed like people knew I was American from their comments. A lot of was probably demeanor, I stride around a bit when I walk and talk really loudly and assertively. A lot of that experience woke me up to the different cultures and dialects within what seems to be the all emcompassing "Chinese" more than being Asian -hyphen- American.

A lot of my reactionary stance comes from dealing with the sometime hostile white community on the edges of the SG Valley or when I spent time in New England. I never really gave it much thought before about loyalty to America before that experience and hearing about Wen Ho Lee and Vincient Chin. The only place I can really feel loyalty to my neighborhood in LA which is full of rice rocket driving 2nd generation AAs who group up speaking the same langauge and sharing the same ethnic culture while living in America and trying to integrate that other contradicting part in our lives.

You're right though, a lot of those "azn pryde" people are REALLY reactionary and are kind of on a fringe of their own. I think of myself more as a 2nd gen-er who group up where Asian immigrants and their children are the majority and mostly identify with that upbringing and enviromnment more than an American environment. For that reason, I can't relate to American even at 50% either.

[angel nympho]

You have to stop looking at yourself as "different and unequal" if you want others to do the same.

[AngryABCGirl]

Originally posted by angel nympho@Mar 23 2003, 11:15 PM
You have to stop looking at yourself as "different and unequal" if you want others to do the same.
I don't want others, as in other white Americans, to look at me as if I'm the same though. I definitely want to be seen as different not only because I look different but I have a different culture.

I mean sure I don't want to be discriminated against, but I don't want to turn my back on my heritage either. For European Americans that's what most of them did, most German/French/you-name-it average European American does not know how to speak his/her 'native' language.

It's a kind of ambivalence I'm ranting about that's obviously unresolved.

[SunWuKong]

at this point i've moved beyond caring what mainstream (white) america thinks of me. it's not really because i think this country "won't accept me". it's more because i don't feel that the US is home anymore. "go back to china"? why, yes i will. thanks.

[Danny]

Originally posted by Xishi@Mar 23 2003, 08:25 PM
I admire your idealism in that Asians should be seen as just as American as European Americans...which they are....but reality written on your face says that we obviously look different...and its really understandable that people see you as less American...at least by initial perception...
I can agree to a certain extent, but becuase we look different should not pull away from the fact that we are Americans. We should not have to sit down and hear racial inspired jokes becuase of our obvious facial differences. We should be able to walk around and not have people assume that we are from a certain class in society becuase of the slant of our eye, or the color of our skin.

Once that stops, then I am an -American. Until then, society in America classifies me as one of three things... asian or pacific islander (if they do not have the following choices), other, or multiracial.

[kangal]

Originally posted by AzNBuffGrL@Mar 24 2003, 01:36 AM
I don't want others, as in other white Americans, to look at me as if I'm the same though. I definitely want to be seen as different not only because I look different but I have a different culture.

I mean sure I don't want to be discriminated against, but I don't want to turn my back on my heritage either. For European Americans that's what most of them did, most German/French/you-name-it average European American does not know how to speak his/her 'native' language.

It's a kind of ambivalence I'm ranting about that's obviously unresolved.
Yeah, this thin line is a tough one to tread. The word majority infers that there is a certain level of conformity. I think it may be difficult in wanting to be unique, yet still wanting to be treated as part of the whole.

[blkazngirl]

Originally posted by AzNBuffGrL@Mar 23 2003, 08:35 AM
How American do you consider yourselves as Asian-American? Do you hold loyality to this country? Culturally?


First, you are who you are. America is the different minorites, and cultures. Loyality? I would have to say yes and no. There are somethings America (laws) I do agree with and some I don't. Due to the fact, I have never lived outside the country for over a month, I can not form an good opion.

[angel nympho]

Originally posted by AzNBuffGrL@Mar 24 2003, 07:36 AM
I don't want others, as in other white Americans, to look at me as if I'm the same though.  I definitely want to be seen as different not only because I look different but I have a different culture.

I mean sure I don't want to be discriminated against, but I don't want to turn my back on my heritage either.  For European Americans that's what most of them did, most German/French/you-name-it average European American does not know how to speak his/her 'native' language.  

It's a kind of ambivalence I'm ranting about that's obviously unresolved.
No, I said "different and UNEQUAL." Everybody in the world is different and individual. Nobody's denying that. Your roots make you an individual in a world of billions and nothing will ever allow somebody to think differently. I'm saying, though, that as long as you assume yourself to be unequal, nothing's gonna change. Knowing and demanding that you be an equal is in no way turning your back on your heritage.

[Napoleon Chynamite]

I see myself as American as much as I see myself as male. It's fact.

[AngryABCGirl]

Originally posted by angel nympho@Mar 24 2003, 10:32 AM
Originally posted by AzNBuffGrL@Mar 24 2003, 07:36 AM
I don't want others, as in other white Americans, to look at me as if I'm the same though. I definitely want to be seen as different not only because I look different but I have a different culture.

I mean sure I don't want to be discriminated against, but I don't want to turn my back on my heritage either. For European Americans that's what most of them did, most German/French/you-name-it average European American does not know how to speak his/her 'native' language.

It's a kind of ambivalence I'm ranting about that's obviously unresolved.
No, I said "different and UNEQUAL." Everybody in the world is different and individual. Nobody's denying that. Your roots make you an individual in a world of billions and nothing will ever allow somebody to think differently. I'm saying, though, that as long as you assume yourself to be unequal, nothing's gonna change. Knowing and demanding that you be an equal is in no way turning your back on your heritage.
America is not perfect and might be at accepting diverse cultures and on a board part, could rather have assimilation. I've had experiences where teachers would react more postively to an Asian student who would have a more American type point of view and react more negatively to an Asian student like me who might be coming from a more Chinese type of view. Despite our similiar heritage, we get placed, probably even unintentially, on this unequal block because our thinking is different.

The question to ponder is, what can be do to be equal but not give up our thinking? Even if we demand it, does it mean it's going to be accepted?

Should I and other APAs feel loyal to a country much of which wouldn't be able to accept differences in thinking?

It's an interesting question I'm curious hearing responses in.

[angel nympho]

Originally posted by AzNBuffGrL@Mar 25 2003, 12:19 AM
Originally posted by angel nympho@Mar 24 2003, 10:32 AM
Originally posted by AzNBuffGrL@Mar 24 2003, 07:36 AM
I don't want others, as in other white Americans, to look at me as if I'm the same though. I definitely want to be seen as different not only because I look different but I have a different culture.

I mean sure I don't want to be discriminated against, but I don't want to turn my back on my heritage either. For European Americans that's what most of them did, most German/French/you-name-it average European American does not know how to speak his/her 'native' language.

It's a kind of ambivalence I'm ranting about that's obviously unresolved.
No, I said "different and UNEQUAL." Everybody in the world is different and individual. Nobody's denying that. Your roots make you an individual in a world of billions and nothing will ever allow somebody to think differently. I'm saying, though, that as long as you assume yourself to be unequal, nothing's gonna change. Knowing and demanding that you be an equal is in no way turning your back on your heritage.
America is not perfect and might be at accepting diverse cultures and on a board part, could rather have assimilation. I've had experiences where teachers would react more postively to an Asian student who would have a more American type point of view and react more negatively to an Asian student like me who might be coming from a more Chinese type of view. Despite our similiar heritage, we get placed, probably even unintentially, on this unequal block because our thinking is different.

The question to ponder is, what can be do to be equal but not give up our thinking? Even if we demand it, does it mean it's going to be accepted?

Should I and other APAs feel loyal to a country much of which wouldn't be able to accept differences in thinking?

It's an interesting question I'm curious hearing responses in.
I don't really get what you're saying, but maybe I'm just breezing through your posts too quickly. I know America doesn't look at many of us as equals and stuff... but I'm saying that the longer we see ourselves as different and the longer we assume that we'll be treated unequally, the longer everybody else will, too. Until people start expecting equal treatment instead of assuming that they won't get it, there'll be no catalyst for change.

Expecting to be treated equally does nothing to sacrifice the way I think about anything.

[Xishi]

Expecting to be treated equally does nothing to sacrifice the way I think about anything.
I'm saying, though, that as long as you assume yourself to be unequal, nothing's gonna change. Knowing and demanding that you be an equal is in no way turning your back on your heritage.

Please elaborate yourself...
You repetitively speak of inequality...
The US is really a pretty good deal for Asians...name another country where a minority...percentage of population wise...dominates most of the nation's most elite universities...

There are no institutionalized injustices targeting Asians here in the US...so I am somewhat confused by your concern of being unequal...
Is there prejudice here...? Yeah...
Is it systematic...? No...
Then this prejudice is hardly synonamous with inequality...
Oh..."different" is not synonamous with "unequal" either...

You speak of change....
What exactly are you wanting to change...? You can change systematic errors...but no matter what you do...there is no way to change every personal corruption of prejudice no matter how much you refuse to see yourself differently...so in that sense...you gain nothing and only loose your heritage by refusing to express if not expand your differences...

:dance:

[MellowDrama]

Asian Am here. I was treated as different from the get go, growing up in a mostly White environment. I knew I was different. I felt I was different. It's a fucking joke if I felt I was "just like everyone else." I'm not. People react to visual stimuli before all others, so when they see someone "different" there's just no way around it.

Let's face it. An immigrant from Bosnia or Poland or Ireland who came off the plane tomorrow will be seen as more "American" than you. (If his accent doesn't give him away. :lol: )

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by Xishi@Mar 25 2003, 04:01 AM
name another country where a minority...percentage of population wise...dominates most of the nation's most elite universities...
well we don't exactly "dominate" the nation's most elite universities. it's just that we're over-represented.

[artsfartsyjanet]

Ethnically, i am of chinese descent. Culturally, i speak cantonese with parents who are Vietnamese of Chinese Descent. I eat Vietnamese and Chinese food a lot growing up. I was born and raised in St.Louis. I identify myself as a bicultural person, but I identify myself assimilated more as an American than someone who was strictly from mainland China or Vietnam. So if someone were to ask me what I am, I usually use Chinese, Chinese American, Asian, or Asian American interchangeably. It doesn't matter to me. They're only categorizations, and I don't like to be put into such a box.

[angel nympho]

Originally posted by Xishi@Mar 25 2003, 09:01 AM


Please elaborate yourself...
You repetitively speak of inequality...
The US is really a pretty good deal for Asians...name another country where a minority...percentage of population wise...dominates most of the nation's most elite universities...

There are no institutionalized injustices targeting Asians here in the US...so I am somewhat confused by your concern of being unequal...
Is there prejudice here...? Yeah...
Is it systematic...? No...
Then this prejudice is hardly synonamous with inequality...
Oh..."different" is not synonamous with "unequal" either...

You speak of change....
What exactly are you wanting to change...? You can change systematic errors...but no matter what you do...there is no way to change every personal corruption of prejudice no matter how much you refuse to see yourself differently...so in that sense...you gain nothing and only loose your heritage by refusing to express if not expand your differences...

:dance:
I don't think we're treated unequally systematically, either. I was merely responding to those who seem to believe that way.

I don't speak of change. Sorry.

[angel nympho]

Originally posted by MellowDrama@Mar 25 2003, 11:22 AM
Let's face it. An immigrant from Bosnia or Poland or Ireland who came off the plane tomorrow will be seen as more "American" than you. (If his accent doesn't give him away. :lol: )
We each percieve our own versions of reality. In mine, this is completely untrue. But then again, I live in LA.

[luv]

To each their own experiences...much less diversity in the midwest. Lucky I live in Chicago, but when you go to the suburbs, where Asian population may be close to nil, hard to not feel "separated".

I have no illusions about being unattached to "American" because I know that I am physically/culturally different from someone born in China/Hong Kong. I also do not think I will be able to find lifestyle/income that I have in the US. I would never leave off Asian or Chinese because I am rather proud of the fact that I can speak Cantonese (self-taught from watching Chinese TV series).

But in a very dramatic turn of events -- say China and US goes to war, I must say I stand by the US.

[AngryABCGirl]

Originally posted by angel nympho@Mar 25 2003, 11:50 PM
We each percieve our own versions of reality. In mine, this is completely untrue. But then again, I live in LA.
What part of LA do you live in? LA is a very segregated city. Practically every twenty minutes you drive the signs and people and especially attitude all change in most places.

[BeTheReds]

Yea, okay, someone who grew up in the USA and still lives there identifies more with Taiwanese Culture.
WHATEVER

Just because you don't like baseball and barbecues does not mean you are not an american, and being an american does not mean you are an honorary white.
Besides, they sweat baseball in Taiwan.

[AngryABCGirl]

Originally posted by BeTheReds@Mar 27 2003, 07:03 PM
Yea, okay, someone who grew up in the USA and still lives there identifies more with Taiwanese Culture.
WHATEVER

Just because you don't like baseball and barbecues does not mean you are not an american, and being an american does not mean you are an honorary white.
Besides, they sweat baseball in Taiwan.
Hey, nobody has to jump all over each other's asses if they disagree.

I feel the way I feel, nobody has the right to tell me who I am, isn't that the whole damn issue here and the root of all of those online boards and minority groups, so we can be who ourselves and represent ourselves?

I was wondering how everyone else here felt, because what I'm feeling is what a lot Asian-American youth who've grown up in predominantly Asian neighborhoods are thinking about nowadays. I'm getting the impression that many, probably a majority, of the posters on this board grew up truly feeling like a minority in white neighborhoods.

I grew up in a virtual Chinatown, in the San Gabriel Valley of Los Angeles, quite possibly the most Taiwanese and most Asian dominated place in America. I've grown up in the context of that neighborhood, only having to learn to feel like a minority when I finally sepnt some time away. Obviously, I'm going to think a little differently than those Asians who grew up in white neighborhoods or 1st gen-ers that recently immigranted here. Youth like me are a growing part of the Asian-American identity, if there is even one. One that doesn't quite know how to deal with a world outside of that context and deciding how to be a minority living inside America.

Now I know it might be hard for some of you to comprehend if you grew up differently from me because you'll obviously think differently from me.

However that doesn't give you the right to slam me if you can't understand me.

[AliBabaIncorporated]

Originally posted by MellowDrama@Mar 25 2003, 06:22 AM
Let's face it. An immigrant from Bosnia or Poland or Ireland who came off the plane tomorrow will be seen as more "American" than you.
not really ... a prevalent feature of social life on many college campuses is conflict between Americans and European foreign students, especially the frat boys bitching that the Euros are too flashy, spend all their time drinking, act effeminate, and listen to shitty music. how do you think we got the word "Eurotrash?" relations with the townies are even worse. A while back some Turkish kid in a BMW ran into some local girl outside a club, tensions really started showing through.

[Xishi]

I grew up in a virtual Chinatown, in the San Gabriel Valley of Los Angeles, quite possibly the most Taiwanese and most Asian dominated place in America. I've grown up in the context of that neighborhood, only having to learn to feel like a minority when I finally spentt some time away. Obviously, I'm going to think a little differently than those Asians who grew up in white neighborhoods or 1st gen-ers that recently immigranted here.

Yeah...I get you...
I use to live in a small country town with very little exposure to Asians...but I indentify with your mentality more than I can comprehend the others on this board...
I think it has to do more with the perception of Asians that I have been exposed to as oppose to the amount of Asian exposure that determined my adamant willingness to identify with Asians...
The Highschool that I went to had at the most five Asians at once...and I have to say that uncontrary to common expectation...everyone of us were extremely well received...
One of the Asian guys...he has not even been in the USA for very long or spoke native English...was elected our Homecoming king...as well as a Prom King candidate...and I myself...have gotten more than my fair share of spotlight for the duration of my time there...

Actually...now that I have relocated to a higher institution of learning where Asians are hardly a scarcity anymore...I do not really like everything that I see...
Sure..Asians...as a whole are more accepted...but as individuals...they have developed a tendency to isolate themselves to associating only with other Asians...
This chosen isolation...is only an abuse of the diversity that we have at our university...
<_<

[Tao]

Originally posted by AzNBuffGrL@Mar 27 2003, 08:27 PM
Originally posted by BeTheReds@Mar 27 2003, 07:03 PM
Yea, okay, someone who grew up in the USA and still lives there identifies more with Taiwanese Culture.
WHATEVER

Just because you don't like baseball and barbecues does not mean you are not an american, and being an american does not mean you are an honorary white.
Besides, they sweat baseball in Taiwan.
Hey, nobody has to jump all over each other's asses if they disagree.

I feel the way I feel, nobody has the right to tell me who I am, isn't that the whole damn issue here and the root of all of those online boards and minority groups, so we can be who ourselves and represent ourselves?

I was wondering how everyone else here felt, because what I'm feeling is what a lot Asian-American youth who've grown up in predominantly Asian neighborhoods are thinking about nowadays. I'm getting the impression that many, probably a majority, of the posters on this board grew up truly feeling like a minority in white neighborhoods.

I grew up in a virtual Chinatown, in the San Gabriel Valley of Los Angeles, quite possibly the most Taiwanese and most Asian dominated place in America. I've grown up in the context of that neighborhood, only having to learn to feel like a minority when I finally sepnt some time away. Obviously, I'm going to think a little differently than those Asians who grew up in white neighborhoods or 1st gen-ers that recently immigranted here. Youth like me are a growing part of the Asian-American identity, if there is even one. One that doesn't quite know how to deal with a world outside of that context and deciding how to be a minority living inside America.

Now I know it might be hard for some of you to comprehend if you grew up differently from me because you'll obviously think differently from me.

However that doesn't give you the right to slam me if you can't understand me.
It might seem odd to you BeTheReds, but being accepted is not as easy as you might think it is. I understand your concept of being "american" is somewhat different than that of buff girl's and mine, but if you grew up in an asian community in america sometimes it is definetly easier to be accepted by those that look like you and talk like you, rather than white americans from some state where the cows out number the people. And besides you're mixed, you should know better!

[ChinaLama]

please calm down, everyone. comments like "where cows out number the people" are really unnecessary.

[kimpossible]

Originally posted by BeTheReds@Mar 27 2003, 07:03 PM
Yea, okay, someone who grew up in the USA and still lives there identifies more with Taiwanese Culture.
WHATEVER

Just because you don't like baseball and barbecues does not mean you are not an american, and being an american does not mean you are an honorary white.
Besides, they sweat baseball in Taiwan.
Because Taiwanese form pockets of culture in even the smallest towns. Even ABC kids who've never set foot outside the US sometimes have English as a second language because at home it's always Mandarin or Taiwanese. Enough so that even a whitish American born not really Asian thing like me can pick up Mandarin environmentally and not experience any culture shock on my first trip to Taiwan.

You can't just dismiss them as not being truly Chinese in the cultural sense just because they're American born.

[ChinaLama]

Actually, one of my friends who was born and raised in America (in fact, i'm not sure if he's ever set his feet in another country) identifies more w/ being Chinese than w/ being America. may have to do w/ his spending most of his life in Chinatown. If there were a war between America and China, he'd rather fight for China, because he figures if say China launches a missile at America, people here would go in hysterics and start mass killing or interning Chinese Americans. So he figures, what's the pt of fighting for America if Americans will just hurt him and other Chinese Americans?

Before he made that last point, I thought his position was pretty preposterous, too. But now that he's made THAT point, if Japanese American internment, the killing of Vincent Chin, hate crimes, and the experiences of racism, etc have THAT deep an effect on everyday people, then that position, an American born and raised citizen would rather fight for another country, doesn't seem as odd as it first seems. And certainly identifying more w/ another country (esp since my friend lives in Chinatown), doesn't seem too weird either.

[SunWuKong]

yeah eugene, i have my doubts about what she said too, but there's no need to jump on anybody like that. and hell i think what she said is possible. just look at kasie, she's like the fobbiest ABC i've never known of. :P

[VV o n g B a]

Originally posted by ChinaLama@Mar 28 2003, 12:53 AM
Actually, one of my friends who was born and raised in America (in fact, i'm not sure if he's ever set his feet in another country) identifies more w/ being Chinese than w/ being America. may have to do w/ his spending most of his life in Chinatown. If there were a war between America and China, he'd rather fight for China, because he figures if say China launches a missile at America, people here would go in hysterics and start mass killing or interning Chinese Americans. So he figures, what's the pt of fighting for America if Americans will just hurt him and other Chinese Americans?

Before he made that last point, I thought his position was pretty preposterous, too. But now that he's made THAT point, if Japanese American internment, the killing of Vincent Chin, hate crimes, and the experiences of racism, etc have THAT deep an effect on everyday people, then that position, an American born and raised citizen would rather fight for another country, doesn't seem as odd as it first seems. And certainly identifying more w/ another country (esp since my friend lives in Chinatown), doesn't seem too weird either.
i actually came to a similar conclusion years back. but only to the point of saying that i wouldn't fight against china if the US enacted discriminatory policies against chinese americans.

[Craig]

Originally posted by VV o n g B a@Mar 28 2003, 07:17 AM
Originally posted by ChinaLama@Mar 28 2003, 12:53 AM
Actually, one of my friends who was born and raised in America (in fact, i'm not sure if he's ever set his feet in another country) identifies more w/ being Chinese than w/ being America. may have to do w/ his spending most of his life in Chinatown. &nbsp;If there were a war between America and China, he'd rather fight for China, because he figures if say China launches a missile at America, people here would go in hysterics and start mass killing or interning Chinese Americans. So he figures, what's the pt of fighting for America if Americans will just hurt him and other Chinese Americans?

Before he made that last point, I thought his position was pretty preposterous, too. But now that he's made THAT point, if Japanese American internment, the killing of Vincent Chin, hate crimes, and the experiences of racism, etc have THAT deep an effect on everyday people, then that position, an American born and raised citizen would rather fight for another country, doesn't seem as odd as it first seems. And certainly identifying more w/ another country (esp since my friend lives in Chinatown), doesn't seem too weird either.
i actually came to a similar conclusion years back. but only to the point of saying that i wouldn't fight against china if the US enacted discriminatory policies against chinese americans.
I'd rather fight for China than for the USA. No matter what policies the US put into place, I wouldn't fight against China.

[VV o n g B a]

Originally posted by Craig@Mar 28 2003, 12:44 PM
I'd rather fight for China than for the USA.
i've heard this from a couple of friends too. i wonder how many other chinese americans feel this way and what all the reasons are for this feeling.

[VV o n g B a]

Originally posted by tazadar@Mar 28 2003, 12:50 PM
It would depend on the circumstance for me. It's more of which side represents righteous and principle.
as things currently stand, wouldn't that naturally be for the US since its a democracy and china is a dictatorship?

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by Craig@Mar 28 2003, 01:44 PM
Originally posted by VV o n g B a@Mar 28 2003, 07:17 AM
Originally posted by ChinaLama@Mar 28 2003, 12:53 AM
Actually, one of my friends who was born and raised in America (in fact, i'm not sure if he's ever set his feet in another country) identifies more w/ being Chinese than w/ being America. may have to do w/ his spending most of his life in Chinatown. If there were a war between America and China, he'd rather fight for China, because he figures if say China launches a missile at America, people here would go in hysterics and start mass killing or interning Chinese Americans. So he figures, what's the pt of fighting for America if Americans will just hurt him and other Chinese Americans?

Before he made that last point, I thought his position was pretty preposterous, too. But now that he's made THAT point, if Japanese American internment, the killing of Vincent Chin, hate crimes, and the experiences of racism, etc have THAT deep an effect on everyday people, then that position, an American born and raised citizen would rather fight for another country, doesn't seem as odd as it first seems. And certainly identifying more w/ another country (esp since my friend lives in Chinatown), doesn't seem too weird either.
i actually came to a similar conclusion years back. but only to the point of saying that i wouldn't fight against china if the US enacted discriminatory policies against chinese americans.
I'd rather fight for China than for the USA. No matter what policies the US put into place, I wouldn't fight against China.
you know, i always thought you were korean for some reason.

[SunWuKong]

like taz, i also would have to look at the situation. even though i am for reunification, if china initiated a military attack on taiwan, i'd definitely be on the side of the US, or rather, be against the chinese government's decision to attack. but most importantly, i'd involve myself in working toward ending the fighting.

[AngryABCGirl]

Originally posted by ChinaLama@Mar 27 2003, 10:53 PM
Before he made that last point, I thought his position was pretty preposterous, too. But now that he's made THAT point, if Japanese American internment, the killing of Vincent Chin, hate crimes, and the experiences of racism, etc have THAT deep an effect on everyday people, then that position, an American born and raised citizen would rather fight for another country, doesn't seem as odd as it first seems. And certainly identifying more w/ another country (esp since my friend lives in Chinatown), doesn't seem too weird either.
That's exactly what I'm trying to talk about.

[angel nympho]

I wouldn't even fight for America, why would I fight for any other country?

[Green_Circle]

Originally posted by AzNBuffGrL@Mar 28 2003, 04:27 AM
Originally posted by BeTheReds@Mar 27 2003, 07:03 PM
Yea, okay, someone who grew up in the USA and still lives there identifies more with Taiwanese Culture.
WHATEVER

Just because you don't like baseball and barbecues does not mean you are not an american, and being an american does not mean you are an honorary white.
Besides, they sweat baseball in Taiwan.
Hey, nobody has to jump all over each other's asses if they disagree.

I feel the way I feel, nobody has the right to tell me who I am, isn't that the whole damn issue here and the root of all of those online boards and minority groups, so we can be who ourselves and represent ourselves?

I was wondering how everyone else here felt, because what I'm feeling is what a lot Asian-American youth who've grown up in predominantly Asian neighborhoods are thinking about nowadays. I'm getting the impression that many, probably a majority, of the posters on this board grew up truly feeling like a minority in white neighborhoods.

I grew up in a virtual Chinatown, in the San Gabriel Valley of Los Angeles, quite possibly the most Taiwanese and most Asian dominated place in America. I've grown up in the context of that neighborhood, only having to learn to feel like a minority when I finally sepnt some time away. Obviously, I'm going to think a little differently than those Asians who grew up in white neighborhoods or 1st gen-ers that recently immigranted here. Youth like me are a growing part of the Asian-American identity, if there is even one. One that doesn't quite know how to deal with a world outside of that context and deciding how to be a minority living inside America.

Now I know it might be hard for some of you to comprehend if you grew up differently from me because you'll obviously think differently from me.

However that doesn't give you the right to slam me if you can't understand me.
Kool, buffgirl. I always stay at the lodgings there in San Gabe valley whenever I go to southern Cal. One can get caught up in all the different cities and towns where you are. I kind of feel almost like it's a home away from my hometown of San Francisco. Howdy neighbor. :lol:

[BeTheReds]

Yo man

All I'm saying is that American and mainstream white are not the same thing.

I don't see why people need to combine the two when they are two seperate things.


People who advocate that the definition of American is not white middle class suburbia need to embrace there role in changing the perception of what an American is.

If you wanna bitch about being considered a foreigner based on your appearance, and then turn around and say that you don't feel American, how can anyone consider you anything other than foreign?

These arguments are contradictory and only hold you back.

Identify however you want to identify, but don't bitch when someone else identifies you the same way you identify yourself.

Yea I grew up in a different environment than you. Yea I looked white in a majority white surrounding. Perhaps it was the fact that I paid attention in civics class, and the fact that my mother taught me that I should tolerate others is why I have a different spin on things than some of you. American is American citizen, and any thought process that an American citizen has is an American viewpoint.

I realize that I will never get any respect around here, I'll never be able to have "The Asian American political viewpoint" because it contradicts itself and considers an phenotypical appearance as some sort of subculture when it's really exclusionistic racism packaged under another label.

[kimpossible]

Originally posted by BeTheReds@Apr 4 2003, 02:45 PM
Yo man

All I'm saying is that American and mainstream white are not the same thing.

I'm willing to hear this out. How do you think these are different? Because to me these are practically the same. I'm not judging whether or not this is the 'Asian' opinion to have because you're ethnically more Asian than I am and probably considered more Asian than me by Asian standards. What I'm saying is I disagree and I don't fall into the category of thinking you're not Asian enough to get it because I'm more of a whitey than you are.

But anyhow, how are they different? You usually explain clearly and succinctly.

[TyroneK(prettypretty)]

I feel that American is a nationality term that's misused by most people. That's why I get upset when people say I'm not American because I am for all intensive and literal purposes. I was born here, I grew up here and I'll probably die here unless something really weird happens.

I guess most people use the term as an indication of acculturation or marginalization. I don't think it's a good term and I usually do my best to avoid it because it's misleading.

I think I could live without the hyphen. I feel like the hyphenated terms are all important, but they're still a subcategory. It's not like a separate nationality. (Potential Cheese Alert...)

We're all American in the end.

[BeTheReds]

Originally posted by Hello_Hapa@Apr 4 2003, 10:56 PM

But anyhow, how are they different? You usually explain clearly and succinctly.
Okay... I will attempt to do it.

Analogy. All apples are fruits but not all fruits are apples.

All things associated with mainstream white are American, but not all American things are things associated with mainstream white.


An American is someone who has American citizenship. If an American is someone who does not associate him or herself with mainstream white America, he or she is still an American.

Ironically this issue that we are discussing is an American idea.

It certainly is possible that the majority of Americans will think and act a certain way, but just because some Americans think and act differently than the majority, it does not make them any less American.

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by BeTheReds@Apr 4 2003, 05:45 PM
I realize that I will never get any respect around here, I'll never be able to have "The Asian American political viewpoint" because it contradicts itself and considers an phenotypical appearance as some sort of subculture when it's really exclusionistic racism packaged under another label.
woh hold it there. i have a lot of doubts about "asian america" having it's own unique culture or subculture, but i don't think (or at least the more mature crowd) are out to exclude anybody. there's a difference between inclusion and exclusion. i'm not going to ask a white friend to a chinese new year celebration because i'd assume he's not interested, but i'm certainly not going to tell him he can't go if he asks if he can go with me.

[kimpossible]

Ah shit. I meant more in a social marjority perspective type of way. Oh well.

Here's why I disagreed with it: Outside of America, it seems most people associate the idea of American as white person in America. Inside of America, what I see as the representation of 'American' tends to be white person American. The presidents, the people on our money, most of our elected officials, people on mainstream broadcasting, people in ads, magazines in stores - most people on cover are white, news anchors... I really can't think of one mainstream medium that features anything 'American' that isn't associated with white Christian American.

Even when I'm Asians with US citizenship, they tend to use the word American to describe a white person. If they mean a black person, a Hispanic person or native or Indian (from India), anyone else who is by nationality American, etc., they'll say it specifically.

Now I'm not disputing who is and is not an American. What I am saying is that I don't see how the widely accepted idea of 'American' is not synonymous with white mainstream currently. It's changing for sure. In fact, isn't the Hispanic-American population supposed to outnumber the white American population sometime soon?

But for now, I do think they the two terms are used in close proximity of each other.

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by Hello_Hapa@Apr 4 2003, 06:23 PM
In fact, isn't the Hispanic-American population supposed to outnumber the white American population sometime soon?
i think what you're thinking is the projection that if current birth trends continue, white people will comprise of less than 50% of the population of the US by around the year 2050. and currently, the population and population growth of Hispanic Americans are greater than those of any other minority populations.

[kimpossible]

Originally posted by SunWuKung@Apr 4 2003, 03:33 PM
i think what you're thinking is the projection that if current birth trends continue, white people will comprise of less than 50% of the population of the US by around the year 2050. and currently, the population and population growth of Hispanic Americans are greater than those of any other minority populations.
It was indeed.

[BeTheReds]

Originally posted by Hello_Hapa@Apr 4 2003, 11:23 PM
Ah shit. I meant more in a social marjority perspective type of way. Oh well.

Here's why I disagreed with it: Outside of America, it seems most people associate the idea of American as white person in America. Inside of America, what I see as the representation of 'American' tends to be white person American. The presidents, the people on our money, most of our elected officials, people on mainstream broadcasting, people in ads, magazines in stores - most people on cover are white, news anchors... I really can't think of one mainstream medium that features anything 'American' that isn't associated with white Christian American.

Even when I'm Asians with US citizenship, they tend to use the word American to describe a white person. If they mean a black person, a Hispanic person or native or Indian (from India), anyone else who is by nationality American, etc., they'll say it specifically.

Now I'm not disputing who is and is not an American. What I am saying is that I don't see how the widely accepted idea of 'American' is not synonymous with white mainstream currently. It's changing for sure. In fact, isn't the Hispanic-American population supposed to outnumber the white American population sometime soon?

But for now, I do think they the two terms are used in close proximity of each other.
I know what you're talking about, but I think that we all have to work to change that perception that the two are synonymous. It will help almost everyone's political agenda and cause people to have faith in american citizenship.

If you sit idly by and let people use american to mean white, then you are and accomplace in denying constitutional rights to other Americans.

[BeTheReds]

Originally posted by SunWuKung@Apr 4 2003, 11:15 PM
woh hold it there. i have a lot of doubts about "asian america" having it's own unique culture or subculture, but i don't think (or at least the more mature crowd) are out to exclude anybody. there's a difference between inclusion and exclusion. i'm not going to ask a white friend to a chinese new year celebration because i'd assume he's not interested, but i'm certainly not going to tell him he can't go if he asks if he can go with me.
Well I am glad you are intelligent about it at least.

Lots of people aren't tho.

[kimpossible]

Originally posted by BeTheReds@Apr 4 2003, 03:39 PM
Originally posted by Hello_Hapa@Apr 4 2003, 11:23 PM
Ah shit. I meant more in a social marjority perspective type of way. Oh well.

Here's why I disagreed with it: Outside of America, it seems most people associate the idea of American as white person in America. Inside of America, what I see as the representation of 'American' tends to be white person American. The presidents, the people on our money, most of our elected officials, people on mainstream broadcasting, people in ads, magazines in stores - most people on cover are white, news anchors... I really can't think of one mainstream medium that features anything 'American' that isn't associated with white Christian American.

Even when I'm Asians with US citizenship, they tend to use the word American to describe a white person. If they mean a black person, a Hispanic person or native or Indian (from India), anyone else who is by nationality American, etc., they'll say it specifically.

Now I'm not disputing who is and is not an American. What I am saying is that I don't see how the widely accepted idea of 'American' is not synonymous with white mainstream currently. It's changing for sure. In fact, isn't the Hispanic-American population supposed to outnumber the white American population sometime soon?

But for now, I do think they the two terms are used in close proximity of each other.
I know what you're talking about, but I think that we all have to work to change that perception that the two are synonymous. It will help almost everyone's political agenda and cause people to have faith in american citizenship.

If you sit idly by and let people use american to mean white, then you are and accomplace in denying constitutional rights to other Americans.
Oh. Well I agree that the perception is faulty. I just wanted to understand how you can look at the terms America and white mainstream in the face of that perception and say they weren't synonymous. Are we agreeing then? It sounds like we're agreeing?

So now I'm fishing for advice, what do you tell Koreans or Japanese you meet who make this assumption? I think I tried it for a year or two (updating their idea of 'American') and gave up. It seems so ingrained.

[angel nympho]

Honestly, why do labels matter to everybody so much? Is it because everybody has this inherent desire to "belong" somewhere...? Or... what?

Nonetheless, I have created my own label for myself. I call it... "ADD Child."

[ChinaLama]

Originally posted by angel nympho@Apr 5 2003, 02:08 AM
Honestly, why do labels matter to everybody so much? &nbsp;Is it because everybody has this inherent desire to "belong" somewhere...? &nbsp;Or... what?

Nonetheless, I have created my own label for myself. &nbsp;I call it... "ADD Child."
i thought it was resident pornstar. that's what you have above your YW Mafia button. wow, angel, you're a woman of many identities!

[kuanyin]

i was answering this question earlier today.

i have a passport. that's why i am american

i am bicultural...only because i grew up here for the most part.

born here, shipped to taiwan to live with my grandparents, sent back to the us when i was six - cause grandma said i needed to start school.

but the lack of a father figure (he was the white dude) provided me with no american identity. my mother's side is all immigrant - there was no room for america this or that (too busy trying to make a living). my family is buddhist, so we didn't celebrate christmas(although i did get presents), and all the american holidays we celebrated consisted of days off from work in order to do housework...and taking all the grandkids to dinseyland at once - whew!!! anybody have that experience?? we never spoke english in the house.

so i can only say i am american because i was born here. i do feel more closely like i am chinese, so i would call myself asian american before american, although i don't like calling myself that in any circumstance.

[SunWuKong]

it's ok. just do your thing. personally i think i consider myself µØ¹´ (hua qiao, or overseas chinese) before anything else.

[kuanyin]

that meaning "american"

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by kuanyin@Apr 5 2003, 01:04 AM
that meaning "american"
no

http://www.library.ohiou.edu/subjects/shao...ases_popdis.htm (http://www.library.ohiou.edu/subjects/shao/databases_popdis.htm)

[BeTheReds]

Originally posted by Hello_Hapa@Apr 4 2003, 11:48 PM

Oh. Well I agree that the perception is faulty. I just wanted to understand how you can look at the terms America and white mainstream in the face of that perception and say they weren't synonymous. Are we agreeing then? It sounds like we're agreeing?

So now I'm fishing for advice, what do you tell Koreans or Japanese you meet who make this assumption? I think I tried it for a year or two (updating their idea of 'American') and gave up. It seems so ingrained.
Yea, I guess we agree. I've also given up too, because it's impossible to explain it to everyone you meet, not to mention that it must really sound annoying.

In my foreign affairs class I did a segment on "What is American?" and explained the whole melting pot/salad bowl theory and they got the general idea. It's too difficult when nationality and ethnicity are the same thing, people think they mean the same thing.

But this is beside the point, you don't need to start correcting the presumptions of FOBs or Asians in Asia. It is more important in my opinion to make Asian Americans believe that they are American, and make Americans accept Asian-Americans as Americans. If many of us don't consider ourselves Americans, how the hell are we going to persuade anyone else to believe that we are?

[SunWuKong]

you know, in HK, i had an 80-year old white woman tell me in fluent cantonese that she's a hong konger. she was asking people for directions in english and i went over in english to try and help. she got all defensive. maybe she thought i was dangerous because my hair was dyed or something.

[kimpossible]

Originally posted by SunWuKung@Apr 7 2003, 07:39 AM
you know, in HK, i had an 80-year old white woman tell me in fluent cantonese that she's a hong konger. she was asking people for directions in english and i went over in english to try and help. she got all defensive. maybe she thought i was dangerous because my hair was dyed or something.
She feared your sexual prowess. She might have died from a heart attack.

[myself808]

i have to say yes there is the problem of being percevied as permanent immigrants so the hyphen is needed depending on how much you associate being american. i personnaly consider myself as american as president bush. but someone else may see me as FOB.

[AngryABCGirl]

Reading throughout all the debate, I think I'd have to consider myself Chinese-American, both parts are necessary and none can be denied. It's all there even if I am hua qiao, America is still my home even though I don't feel like a part of it most of the time, but who really does?

If we ever want this country to work, I think we have to try to reconcile these feelings and not try to pick one over the other, because that's never going to work. There's not enough belief in that and more reaction against it-believe me, I'm a product of that environment, and it's just not going to work.

I'm never and my kids probably never will either, be considered as American as apple-pie, but I'll never let myself be denied or scorn the rights as an American citizen either. I'm not going to choose anything, I'll keep being as Chinese as I want to be and always be, but I'm still a part of this place as much as much as the next guy.

[etcj]

I like how someone actually answered all three questions that was asked by the original poster. However, I'm just gonna provide some commentary ~ what a non-conformist, right? (Yeah, right...)

How American do you consider yourselves as Asian-American?
~American has become a synonym for white. We might not want to admit it, but in this day and age (Bush Jr. Era), words like American and patriotism has become analogous to being a WASP. I thought we might have been making some progress with the establishment of the White House Asian American & Pacific Islander Initiative, but much of that has been spun back through Bush's various anti-Asian policies.

Do you hold loyality to this country?
Of course, this is a stupid questions asked by the CIA and NSA. Unless you are a radical Anti-American terrorist bent on hurting people, then I think most people can safely say yes. BIG BUT though, does it necessarily mean that you have to love this country?? No, it doesn't. (Check please!!!!)

Culturally?
To a certain degree, many people are bombarded with cultural messages that are only found and are only relevant to the United States. That is a common effect seen among immigrant young people. They adopt elements of US culture (don't say American culture unless you mean to include the entire continent) consciously or subconsciously. If they ever go back to their native country, they might end up feeling different from before they first left. In that sense, they feel acculturated whether they noticed or not. So, identifying culturally may not be something that all are able to see right away.

[angel nympho]

I think there's a difference between common perceptions of what "AN AMERICAN" is vs the word "AMERICAN" being used to describe somebody. I think it's generally a known fact (though some may have to put some thought and effort towards coming up with this definition) that the definition of "AN AMERICAN" is definately not restricted to WHITE American. But that's commonly mistaken when people use the word "American" to describe somebody... I generally think, however, that only people out of America try to use that as a description. But I could totally be wrong, because living in LA, I'm not exposed to the kinds of people who aren't used to seeing *people of color* LOL... except maybe old people and tourists.

I definately hold way more cultural loyalty to US culture than to any other... I've never known any other culture, how could I not? I've never been a citizen anywhere outside of the US, so how could I not hold loyalty to the US? I honestly don't think that it's even possible for me to not consider myself an American.

[CrX3183]

Personally i do...
I made an oath to protect this country against all enemies foreign or domestic.

[BeTheReds]

Originally posted by angel nympho@Apr 11 2003, 05:54 PM
"AN AMERICAN" is definately not restricted to WHITE American. But that's commonly mistaken when people use the word "American" to describe somebody... I generally think, however, that only people out of America try to use that as a description.
Plenty of Asian-Americans use the term. That's the problem.

[angel nympho]

Originally posted by BeTheReds@Apr 14 2003, 01:29 AM
Plenty of Asian-Americans use the term. That's the problem.
I wonder if people get confused sometimes, though, I mean... we can't use the word "American" to describe a person... but we can use with a prefix, like "Asian-American"? I guess the only time I've ever used the word American to describe a white person has ever been when I'm trying to put it next to a description of somebody with like... a prefix. Aka "is she asian-american?" "no, she's american-american." But I think that was just... for ease of saying the word than because I actually think the term "american" equates 'white." oh well, i think i've only said that, like once in the last 8 years.

[Iconoclastic]

I just call whites European-Americans...takes some getting used to but eventually it'll spread and be THE term if more people use it...fist

[BeTheReds]

Why can't we just call them white?

[SunWuKong]

i'm confused. hahah! :P

[Iconoclastic]

i personally think that callin them white is incorrect because

1) their skin aint white, it ranges from pink to tan
2) white has long been associated with purity and goodness, and labeling them with that tag subconsciously elevates their social position
3) European-American is equitable to the term Asian-American, making both groups just as American as the other (I love the squirmish squeams I get from EAs when I refer to them as that cuz it gives them a taste of their medicine)

I hope you find some sense in those words, it's 1:30. Fist

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by Iconoclastic@Apr 14 2003, 01:29 AM
2) white has long been associated with purity and goodness, and labeling them with that tag subconsciously elevates their social position
it's also the colour of mourning, of ghosts, of not being healthy, of mundaneness, etc etc.


why is it not possible to call them white without thinking that they're "pure and good"?

[BeTheReds]

Originally posted by Iconoclastic@Apr 14 2003, 06:29 AM
i personally think that callin them white is incorrect because

1) their skin aint white, it ranges from pink to tan
2) white has long been associated with purity and goodness, and labeling them with that tag subconsciously elevates their social position
3) European-American is equitable to the term Asian-American, making both groups just as American as the other (I love the squirmish squeams I get from EAs when I refer to them as that cuz it gives them a taste of their medicine)

I hope you find some sense in those words, it's 1:30. Fist
Well European American is fine too.

But I don't think it will catch on.

[Elizabeth A.]

I've only seen the term "European American" used in one place: a sociological study that my mother was working on for her Master's degree.

I don't think it's going to catch on as common usage anytime soon, either.

[angel nympho]

Originally posted by BeTheReds@Apr 14 2003, 08:41 AM
Originally posted by Iconoclastic@Apr 14 2003, 06:29 AM
i personally think that callin them white is incorrect because

1) their skin aint white, it ranges from pink to tan
2) white has long been associated with purity and goodness, and labeling them with that tag subconsciously elevates their social position
3) European-American is equitable to the term Asian-American, making both groups just as American as the other (I love the squirmish squeams I get from EAs when I refer to them as that cuz it gives them a taste of their medicine)

I hope you find some sense in those words, it's 1:30. Fist
Well European American is fine too.

But I don't think it will catch on.
But European American isn't the same as White-American. European American is like... somebody who lives in America but is French. Somebody who's Danish. Or Norweigan. What about the people who don't really have a background elsewhere?

It's was always my understanding that it went "race-nationality" with hypenated people. so like....Asian-American. or White-American. Or like.. ummm... African-American?

[angel nympho]

Originally posted by Iconoclastic@Apr 14 2003, 06:29 AM
i personally think that callin them white is incorrect because

1) their skin aint white, it ranges from pink to tan
My skin isn't exactly yellow...

[angel nympho]

Originally posted by BeTheReds@Apr 14 2003, 03:16 AM
Why can't we just call them white?
Word.

[kitty]

Originally posted by Iconoclastic@Apr 14 2003, 06:29 AM
i personally think that callin them white is incorrect because

1) their skin aint white, it ranges from pink to tan
2) white has long been associated with purity and goodness, and labeling them with that tag subconsciously elevates their social position
3) European-American is equitable to the term Asian-American, making both groups just as American as the other (I love the squirmish squeams I get from EAs when I refer to them as that cuz it gives them a taste of their medicine)

I hope you find some sense in those words, it's 1:30. Fist
yeah but who created the english language in the first place? European Americans sounds kinda weird but it's more accurate, but what about "white" people who don't come from Europe?

[kimpossible]

Originally posted by Iconoclastic@Apr 13 2003, 10:29 PM
3) European-American is equitable to the term Asian-American, making both groups just as American as the other (I love the squirmish squeams I get from EAs when I refer to them as that cuz it gives them a taste of their medicine)
I don't like. That would mean I'd be walking around as a European-Japanese-American* and my kids would be Chinese-European-Japanese-Americans*. That's monoracialist!

* and that's leaving out that smidge of native blood I have

[etcj]

I don't really see white people complaining about the fact that they are called white. Ethnic pride doesn't really come up unless white people are talking to other white people. When they are talking to communities of color, they just call themselves white. When an Irish person is talking to an Italian person, ethnicity becomes an important part of the discussion.

It's kind of similar to how we don't like to just be called Asian, especially when people may be of different ethnicities. Is it important to have that discussion?

Yes, because our cultures are not all the same. For those white people whose families may have been in this country long enough, the whole idea of ethnic pride may be eroded. However, it doesn't mean that they aren't different from each other.

I think that if we move away from ethnic distinctions, we start to become more like those white people who believe that we are all the same. That reinforces discriminatory nationalism and patriotism, which, to me, is quite revolting. I can be an American, but I can also be Chinese. If white people choose to distinguish themselves from each other, then I won't stop them. However, I doubt many would understand that you might not need such distinctions if you don't really face discrimination as a whole. Perhaps that is different if we were to talk about East Europeans (Russians, Polish, Austrian, etc.).

For now, let them take care of their own business. I'd much rather know that I can call myself Chinese and have that be acknowledged.

[YuheiCarreau]

Originally posted by Hello_Hapa@Apr 14 2003, 02:58 PM
I don't like. That would mean I'd be walking around as a European-Japanese-American* and my kids would be Chinese-European-Japanese-Americans*. That's monoracialist!

* and that's leaving out that smidge of native blood I have
Yeah, now you're gettin' with it!

hApA PRyDE!!!!11! RePrezeNT!

[Craig]

Originally posted by kittygirl@Apr 14 2003, 01:51 PM
Originally posted by Iconoclastic@Apr 14 2003, 06:29 AM
i personally think that callin them white is incorrect because

1) their skin aint white, it ranges from pink to tan
2) white has long been associated with purity and goodness, and labeling them with that tag subconsciously elevates their social position
3) European-American is equitable to the term Asian-American, making both groups just as American as the other (I love the squirmish squeams I get from EAs when I refer to them as that cuz it gives them a taste of their medicine)

I hope you find some sense in those words, it's 1:30.&nbsp; Fist
yeah but who created the english language in the first place? European Americans sounds kinda weird but it's more accurate, but what about "white" people who don't come from Europe?
You mean like those Syrians ? I think Dubya is out to take care of that situation.

[VV o n g B a]

did somebody already mention calling them caucasian americans? that would take care of the non-european peeps.

[Craig]

Originally posted by VV o n g B a@Apr 14 2003, 05:15 PM
did somebody already mention calling them caucasian americans? that would take care of the non-european peeps.
I know Europeans that don't like being called Caucasians.

[kimpossible]

How about Pinky-Tan Americans?

[BeTheReds]

Originally posted by VV o n g B a@Apr 15 2003, 12:15 AM
did somebody already mention calling them caucasian americans? that would take care of the non-european peeps.
Okay fine, but that's almost the equivalent of calling all Asians Chinese.

The Caucasus is a small region in Russia which is definately predominately white, but I think the genereal concensus is that most white people or their ancestors came from Europe, not the Caucasus.

I for one don't have any ties there, so I don't think it is a term that describes me at all.

[VV o n g B a]

Originally posted by BeTheReds@Apr 14 2003, 11:19 PM

The Caucasus is a small region in Russia which is definately predominately white, but I think the genereal concensus is that most white people or their ancestors came from Europe, not the Caucasus.

woops. ya, thats a no go.

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by Craig@Apr 14 2003, 07:47 PM
I know Europeans that don't like being called Caucasians.
yeah i don't call europeans white and definitely not caucasian. i call them english, or french, or german, etc etc, depending on the person.

[AliBabaIncorporated]

the only people I've seen using the term Caucasian American are whites trying to be politically correct.

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by AliBabaIncorporated@Apr 15 2003, 12:33 AM
the only people I've seen using the term Caucasian American are whites trying to be politically correct.
a lot of black people on the web does it too. haven't heard it much in real life.

[Fireblade]

Well... the idea of what's american will change over time. Personally I think of myself as a chinese american, because growing up I was in the unique situation of growing up being a part of chinatown. This is in part of the fact that my family has been "in" American since the 1800s, but has never really settled here till my dad and his siblings came over. Which was around the early 1960s. So I can identify with many things that are culturally chinese and I can identify with many things american. But what makes me american, is the fact that I was born here. And the fact that I grew up here. And I adopt many of the ideals of being american. I believe in a free state, and I believe in democracy, and the dream of becoming a rockstar... (err, maybe not so american). I can also identify with many chinese things, like my family traditions, or the chopsticks, or even when I speak cantonese.

What gets me, is when people try to say or force ideas onto others when they have already established their own identity. I had a couple of teachers say "no clinton, you're not chinese. You're american." or vice-versa. I would actually believe an immigrant who has lived here for the last 10 years an american if they have adopted a lifestyle that they've created in america. This place, afterall is the land of opportunity, but also one of recreation. There is no perfect country. Heck, there are plenty of civil wars, and racial tension is a lot more heated in other countries.

And I'm loyal to this country, even though at times I feel as though I shouldn't. As a citizen, sometimes I feel as though I am not represented by our political officials in office, and that diveristy is dead when ignorance reigns supreme, but I still come back like a pathetic dog, because it's all I know. I do not know how life would be in other countries, and though the thought is tempting, there's no way I can completely assimilate into daily whatever country life.

The whole race thing is... whatever. I call them white. I don't call them american. If an american person calls me asian... cool. Just not oriental. <_< I'm an american. A white guy living in america is American. So is a black guy. Or hispanic. Whatever.

[etcj]

Originally posted by Fireblade@Apr 15 2003, 04:42 AM
The whole race thing is... whatever. I call them white. I don't call them american. If an american person calls me asian... cool. Just not oriental. <_<&nbsp; I'm an american. A white guy living in america is American. So is a black guy. Or hispanic. Whatever.
Somehow it's still been a struggle for Asians and Pacific Islanders to be recognized as citizens. The same is true for the Latino community. Due to the fact that we are sometimes bilingual or multilingual, we are characterized as being outsiders. This is one common link that we, as Asians and Pacific Islanders, have with the Latino community - the need for specific linguistically and culturally appropriate services. Since we are requesting that, people who are monolingual are less tolerant. Therefore, we are still cast out as being non-citizens in certain contexts.

Bilingual education has certainly been influenced by what we are talking about. Does being American mean that you can only speak English in the classroom?

[Fireblade]

Originally posted by etcj@Apr 15 2003, 10:51 AM
Bilingual education has certainly been influenced by what we are talking about. Does being American mean that you can only speak English in the classroom?
let's see...
if you go to other countries, although english is a language that is readily known world-wide, you can't get by whatever foreign land you're in, if you don't learn to speak the native language. If you go to China, do you expect to get by with learning english during your whole entire educational life, would you be able to communicate with others? no. It doesn't work that way.
It shouldn't work that way with immigrant children that come here. In sf in particular, I know many failed billingual students who basically did what was expected in class, which was just be able to phrase sentences, and that'd be it. There was no real literature learned, no ability to form concrete ideas into words to convey what you wanted the person to see.
What is interesting, is if you substitute the bilingual program for an extension into foreign language studies, we would see more americans who'd speak another language, rather than just plain ol' english. Almost everyone worldwide speak english and another language. Why not us?
But the debate about bilingual education is hard to clarify what is right, and what is wrong. I believe that if you do away with bilingual education, it gives immigrant children a better standard of english in a classroom, rather than read "see spot run" at the age of 12. It's somewhat insulting to that person's intelligence.

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by Fireblade@Apr 15 2003, 02:44 PM
if you go to other countries, although english is a language that is readily known world-wide, you can't get by whatever foreign land you're in, if you don't learn to speak the native language.
actually you can get by in most countries knowing only english. it's just that you might miss a lot of good stuff.

[etcj]

Originally posted by Fireblade@Apr 15 2003, 02:44 PM
I believe that if you do away with bilingual education, it gives immigrant children a better standard of english in a classroom, rather than read "see spot run" at the age of 12. It's somewhat insulting to that person's intelligence.
Maybe it was a bad move for me to turn this into a discussion about bilingual education, but...

I think what you want is a comprehensive bilingual education system that has tiers of proficiency for varying levels of understanding among different students. In acknowledging that not all immigrant students are illiterate or non-proficient in English is good, but it's not a justification for scrapping the entire system. It's not simply "one size fits all". However, it goes both ways, like you said... you can't treat all students like they're stupid, but we also can't treat them all like they're competent.

Unfortunately, there is no easy solution, but I am least inclined to say that we should increase the standards...why not increase funding or bilingual ed. teachers? Oh yeah, because our current administration doesn't believe in that...

[igcognito]

I personally, hate, and I mean hate being label'd "African-American". I honestly know nothing about Africa, and what I do know I dislike. I think personally, and I know that I will get serious backlash for this, but the biggest problem with the U.S is focusing on the differences, of everyone else. We should all be worrying about how we are the same, y'know one nation. Honestly, why do most people hate this or that group, because of their differences. I think adding a "hyphen", can lead to other problems, especially in European and Asian groups, because then it leads to national hyphens, like "Korean-American" and "Chinese-American", we can ignite more flames. I read a lot on this board, about this Asian American group doing this, or that, which is just causing more friction.

I understand the fact, that people don't want to abandon, their cultures, tradition or heritage, but when some one asks you (especially non asians) "what race are you?", and someone replies "Chinese-American", I think you are just setting yourself apart, unneccessarily and preparing the way for more needless friction? I honestly, think from what most of my friends, teach me and tell me, Asian culture, is a lot bigger than a prefix, and the lost of the prefix would not hurt it or damage it all.

<sarcasm>
but what do I know, I am a dumb darkie
<sarcasm>

[AngryABCGirl]

To me, the Asian culture is so big, I'd feel like I'm selling myself short without the Chinese-

[BeTheReds]

Originally posted by AzNBuffGrL@Apr 16 2003, 02:45 AM
To me, the Asian culture is so big, I'd feel like I'm selling myself short without the Chinese-
God, another one.

I don't know why I even bother but.

What on earth is THE Asian culture?

"the" implies that there is one culture.

Asia is diverse, and Asians are not a unified people under one culture.

Anyone who thinks this way is obviously not in tune with any type of Asian cuture because if they were they would obviously know that we are different from each other.

I don't know what your take is, but please choose your words more carefully.

*getting ready to dodge tomatoes*

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by igcognito@Apr 15 2003, 09:23 PM
I personally, hate, and I mean hate being label'd "African-American". I honestly know nothing about Africa, and what I do know I dislike. I think personally, and I know that I will get serious backlash for this, but the biggest problem with the U.S is focusing on the differences, of everyone else. We should all be worrying about how we are the same, y'know one nation. Honestly, why do most people hate this or that group, because of their differences. I think adding a "hyphen", can lead to other problems, especially in European and Asian groups, because then it leads to national hyphens, like "Korean-American" and "Chinese-American", we can ignite more flames. I read a lot on this board, about this Asian American group doing this, or that, which is just causing more friction.

I understand the fact, that people don't want to abandon, their cultures, tradition or heritage, but when some one asks you (especially non asians) "what race are you?", and someone replies "Chinese-American", I think you are just setting yourself apart, unneccessarily and preparing the way for more needless friction? I honestly, think from what most of my friends, teach me and tell me, Asian culture, is a lot bigger than a prefix, and the lost of the prefix would not hurt it or damage it all.

<sarcasm>
but what do I know, I am a dumb darkie
<sarcasm>
it's not difference that causes friction. it's intolerance. without difference there's no diversity. and even if it was not a matter of diversity, there is no need, nor should people want to, abandon their culture simply because other people cannot tolerate their differences.

[Azn Retribution]

Originally posted by BeTheReds@Apr 15 2003, 11:03 PM
God, another one.

I don't know why I even bother but.

What on earth is THE Asian culture?

"the" implies that there is one culture.

Asia is diverse, and Asians are not a unified people under one culture.

Anyone who thinks this way is obviously not in tune with any type of Asian cuture because if they were they would obviously know that we are different from each other.

I don't know what your take is, but please choose your words more carefully.

*getting ready to dodge tomatoes*
another condescending contemptous post..
So tempting... so very tempting.. I'll hold back this time.

[igcognito]

I slightly agree with Red . . . but I also think that "'X'-" needing to be a prefix, seems to dumb the strength of that particular Asian cuture. Also, when you take European-American for example, a majority of them are white-Americans, right? Not Polish-American or German-American, or Italian-American, but when large populations of certain, european groups, "ghetto-up", this starts to happen. Now you have a group of people purposely making themselves different. Then you start hearing in these areas, "I hate those greaseballs" and such (personal experience). Yes, because they are intolerant, but it is because that group went and took special effort, to set itself apart, drawing attention to itself. "If you can't take the heat don't stand under the spotlight" type of thing. This also, makes the other group intolerant, I honestly think that if the term, Korean-American did not exist, there would be a lot less, "plastic surgery jokes" and "KAFs got attituides type threads". There are a lot of we are ununited, threads well, you guys, divide yourselves from each other and the rest of America, is that good or bad is your decision. Not having "'X'-" as a prefix to American can still leave it diverse. You can still practice, your specific Asian culture, without dividing yourself from everyone esle. I think it all boils down to, with me if you're FoB or born there raised here, you are _____-American, if you are born here you're American.

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by igcognito@Apr 16 2003, 05:45 AM
I slightly agree with Red . . . but I also think that "'X'-" needing to be a prefix, seems to dumb the strength of that particular Asian cuture. Also, when you take European-American for example, a majority of them are white-Americans, right? Not Polish-American or German-American, or Italian-American, but when large populations of certain, european groups, "ghetto-up", this starts to happen. Now you have a group of people purposely making themselves different. Then you start hearing in these areas, "I hate those greaseballs" and such (personal experience). Yes, because they are intolerant, but it is because that group went and took special effort, to set itself apart, drawing attention to itself. "If you can't take the heat don't stand under the spotlight" type of thing. This also, makes the other group intolerant, I honestly think that if the term, Korean-American did not exist, there would be a lot less, "plastic surgery jokes" and "KAFs got attituides type threads". There are a lot of we are ununited, threads well, you guys, divide yourselves from each other and the rest of America, is that good or bad is your decision. Not having "'X'-" as a prefix to American can still leave it diverse. You can still practice, your specific Asian culture, without dividing yourself from everyone esle. I think it all boils down to, with me if you're FoB or born there raised here, you are _____-American, if you are born here you're American.
i don't agree with that. no matter how much people who are visibly a minority say "i'm an american", others will still be intolerant toward them. it's not really so much the _____-american terms. it's the fact that some people live differently and look differently. again, the problem is not that people are different and like to recognise this difference, the problem is the fact that others do not embrace these differences and instead lash out at these differences.

i would have no problem with white americans suddenly wanting to call themselves polish americans, german americans, etc etc, like italian americans and irish americans have been doing all along. i would applaud them. and others should be taught to do so also.

and if you're a fob, chances are, you wouldn't call yourself american at all. you'd just consider yourself chinese, japanese, korean, etc etc.

honestly, i rarely actually use the term "chinese american