wearing revealing clothing

[kasia]

it's cool to show off your shoulders, your tiny waist, some cleavage...but have any of you stopped and wondered why men don't do us the same favor? an easy answer would be that it isn't fashionable for men to do so. but why not?

[kasia]

as i said, an easy answer would be that it isn't fashionable for men to do so. but why not? does this say something about the current status of women and whether we are still being objectified?


note: to refrain from double-posting, if you want to add something more to your post before anyone else has responded, please use the edit function.

[kasia]

Originally posted by golden_buns@Mar 18 2003, 07:19 PM
True, women are objectified. I guess it goes down to men's instinct; we tend to be more desperate and hungry for anything sexual.
how do you know it isn't the same for women?

[AliBabaIncorporated]

Note that track is the only sport whose male participants are upheld as masculine and at the same time wear highly revealing clothing. in general it seems men wearing clothing which reveals body shape or certain areas of skin is not as socially accepted and leads to their masculinity being questioned. Or am I just inferring too much from all the high school jokes about the speedo-clad swim team members and the wrestlers climbing all over each other.

[VV o n g B a]

Originally posted by AliBabaIncorporated@Mar 18 2003, 10:40 PM
Note that track is the only sport whose male participants are upheld as masculine and at the same time wear highly revealing clothing. in general it seems men wearing clothing which reveals body shape or certain areas of skin is not as socially accepted and leads to their masculinity being questioned. Or am I just inferring too much from all the high school jokes about the speedo-clad swim team members and the wrestlers climbing all over each other.
no thats dead on. but this is cultural right? i mean, lots of african and south american tribes didn't mind their men wearing revealing clothing.

[purezero]

Hmm... That is an interesting question. I think that some guys look good wearing tanks. It was funny because my one friend is pretty cut, and it was hot this one day, he took off his t-shirt and walked around in his tank. Girls were ogling and so were some guys. Hehe. But then again, the guys in the Levi's Dangerously Low jeans comercials grossed me out... And then it also reminds me of the stereotypical plumber with his butt crack showing. Hmm...

[angel nympho]

'Cuz they don't have a whole lot to show off. Guys show off their arms all the time. Sheiiit... :)

[AznYam]

i guess the equivalent would be to show off our dicks. maybe tease you with a little neck. that'll turn girls on.

[iris]

Originally posted by VV o n g B a@Mar 18 2003, 11:14 PM
no thats dead on. but this is cultural right? i mean, lots of african and south american tribes didn't mind their men wearing revealing clothing.
It might be. I haven't worn any "revealing" clothing since I lived in Hong Kong. That's because they think you're a prostitute there if you wear tank tops, shorts, heels, short skirts, etc.. I've been brainwashed.

[VV o n g B a]

Originally posted by iris@Mar 19 2003, 03:22 AM
It might be. I haven't worn any "revealing" clothing since I lived in Hong Kong. That's because they think you're a prostitute there if you wear tank tops, shorts, heels, short skirts, etc.. I've been brainwashed.
heels? but heels aren't even revealing. so girls in hk don't even wear heels to formal occasions and stuff?

[contra_diction]

Originally posted by AliBabaIncorporated@Mar 18 2003, 08:40 PM
Note that track is the only sport whose male participants are upheld as masculine and at the same time wear highly revealing clothing. in general it seems men wearing clothing which reveals body shape or certain areas of skin is not as socially accepted and leads to their masculinity being questioned. Or am I just inferring too much from all the high school jokes about the speedo-clad swim team members and the wrestlers climbing all over each other.
....and gymnastics, or ballet.

[purezero]

I remember in 7th grade, there were some people from the ballet who came and performed The Nutcracker during Christmas time at our school. And everyone commented on the guys. The girls were like, "Oh wow. Look at the size of that thing." And all the guys were groaning and looking the other way.

I felt bad for the guys up there because of the male-student reaction. And I felt embarrassed by the female-student reaction.

[amietron]

I have nothing to reveal.

[mr. x]

see the male equivalent of showing skin would be like wearing no shirt or a vest and no shirt, and during the summer that might be okay in certain places but everywhere else people will think your gay

[angelwiththesword]

i saw a really buff black man wearing pink spandex on the public transit once.

now THAT is revealing.

[teaz0r]

i like men that wear nice fitting v-neck sweaters. not too
tight. not too droopy. yeah. i like.

i don't like men that show the chest when they wear button
shirts, ...and like unbutton them. yuck.

or like men that show their ass crack when they bend down.

i like men in board shorts. and khakis. i like khakis.

[angelwiththesword]

http://www.utilikilts.com/

utility kilts for the worker who likes to go commando, and pull out a bat-spray of some kind....also for the scotsman in you.

[moJo]

I have a thing about nice calves, so i love a guy in board/baggy shorts.

tight shirts are a no-no for me. i prefer casual loose clothing on men.

i made my bf get a pair of low-rise jeans and he hates them. he'll only wear them when i'm with him. :P

[amietron]

I like stretch shirts. They're comfy.

[amietron]

Originally posted by golden_buns@Mar 20 2003, 11:26 AM
Here's a link of men showing too much skin. You ladies be the judges

too much skin (http://www.sexylegsplaygirl.com/laverne/Jokes-Cheeks.html)
uhm, yeah. that is a bit much.

[angelwiththesword]

bwahahaha. kilts are for commandos!! XD

[angel nympho]

Here's why men don't show off skin: WOMEN THINK IT'S NASTY!

If women loved to see men in spandex, I'm sure it'd catch on. But truth of the matter is, women are the only ones who, when dressed skankily, are still appealing.

[Napoleon Chynamite]

Originally posted by angel nympho@Mar 20 2003, 04:43 PM
Here's why men don't show off skin: WOMEN THINK IT'S NASTY!

If women loved to see men in spandex, I'm sure it'd catch on. But truth of the matter is, women are the only ones who, when dressed skankily, are still appealing.
Agreed. Men are nasty and women are beautiful.

[amietron]

Originally posted by FrozenPizza@Mar 20 2003, 07:58 PM
Men are nasty and women are beautiful.
Nick isn't nasty.

[Napoleon Chynamite]

Originally posted by amietron@Mar 20 2003, 07:59 PM
Nick isn't nasty.
Good for her

:D :HH:

[Xishi]

Revealing clothing is alright...

SEE-THROUGH clothing...on the other hand...just looks plain skanky...
~~~
I agree with pipsi...board shorts look HOT HOT on guys...

Plain-blue long sleeve t-shirts look HOT HOT...

Also...Eddie Bauer cologne(not too much pleeeeaase)....YUMMMM.....

[kasia]

Originally posted by FrozenPizza@Mar 20 2003, 07:58 PM
Originally posted by angel nympho@Mar 20 2003, 04:43 PM
Here's why men don't show off skin:  WOMEN THINK IT'S NASTY!  

If women loved to see men in spandex, I'm sure it'd catch on.  But truth of the matter is, women are the only ones who, when dressed skankily, are still appealing.
Agreed. Men are nasty and women are beautiful.
but in my original post, i had said that responding with 'we don't want to see men in revealing clothing' is the easy answer to give and only begs the question. i don't believe that this is based on the nature of men and women - that women are naturally more pleasant to look at and men naturally are not. this is something that society has set for us. women are objectified much more often than are men. isn't that something to think about every time we consider wearing low v's or mini skirts?

[Commando_turned_MD]

Originally posted by Xishi@Mar 20 2003, 08:13 PM
Revealing clothing is alright...

SEE-THROUGH clothing...on the other hand...just looks plain skanky...
~~~
I agree with pipsi...board shorts look HOT HOT on guys...

Plain-blue long sleeve t-shirts look HOT HOT...

Also...Eddie Bauer cologne(not too much pleeeeaase)....YUMMMM.....
the latter is the better one

[mrazntre]

Originally posted by kasia@Mar 19 2003, 03:01 AM
it's cool to show off your shoulders, your tiny waist, some cleavage...but have any of you stopped and wondered why men don't do us the same favor? an easy answer would be that it isn't fashionable for men to do so. but why not?
it's called a WIFEBEATER

[teaz0r]

Originally posted by golden_buns@Mar 20 2003, 10:50 PM
I just saw some pictures of a new line by french designer Pierre Martin. It's skirts, YES, skirts for MEN. The designs follow a scottish skirt pattern. On the article they had the opinion from women and about 98% of them said they didn't like it.
donna karan came out with those back in 1998. didn't do too well.

kilts are okay. i dunno. doesn't bother me. neither does men in sarongs.

[bigwong235]

Originally posted by amietron@Mar 20 2003, 07:59 PM
Nick isn't nasty.
that's news to me.. :dance:

:)

[Xishi]

No dude...SEE THROUGH clothing is disgusting...
If one wants to display a part of his/her body...just show it...no need for the see through pretending to be modest but wanting to be seen stuff...

What a waste of material... <_<

[Rogmok]

hehe.. Kasia, i'll try to answer you question even though everyone else is ignoring you :)

I think its more than just women are more aesthetically please then man (although i think this is 100% true), I think our society totally does not accept men who wear revealing clothing. To me, revealing clothing seems to be associated with being a gay or whatever... and since we live in a highly homophobic world, most guys will do anything to not be associated with that type of lifestyle.

Whereas women who were revealing clothes are given a lot of attention, lots of stares.. and i guess some women dig that... so it enourages girls to wear stuff like that (so they get more attention)

I think it all comes back to how people will percieve who you are and what you are merely by the clothing you wear. And since guys (for the most part) don't want to be percieved as gay.. they will stay away from wearing revealing clothes. AND.. there is nothing really to reveal...

[Shuriken]

Originally posted by kasia@Mar 21 2003, 06:17 AM
but in my original post, i had said that responding with 'we don't want to see men in revealing clothing' is the easy answer to give and only begs the question. i don't believe that this is based on the nature of men and women - that women are naturally more pleasant to look at and men naturally are not. this is something that society has set for us. women are objectified much more often than are men. isn't that something to think about every time we consider wearing low v's or mini skirts?
According to usage and conventions which are at last being questioned but have by no means been overcome, the social presence of a woman is different in kind from that of a man. A man's presence is dependent upon the promise of power which he embodies. If the promise is large and credible, his presence is striking. If it is small or incredible, he is found to have little presence. The promised power may be moral, physical, temperamental, economic, social, sexual — but its object is always exterior to the man. A man's presence suggests what he is capable of doing to you or for you. His presence may be fabricated, in the sense that he pretends to be capable of what he is not. But the pretence is always towards a power which he exercises on others.

By contrast, a woman's presence expresses her own attitude to herself, and defines what can and cannot be done to her. Her presence is manifest in her gestures, voice, opinions, expressions, clothes, chosen surroundings, taste — indeed there is nothing she can do which does not contribute to her presence. Presence for a woman is so intrinsic to her person that men tend to think of it as an almost physical emanation, a kind of heat or smell or aura.

To be born a woman has been to be born, within an alotted and confined space, into the keeping of men. The social presence of women has developed as a result of their ingenuity in living under such tutelage within such a limited space. But this has been at the cost of a woman's self being split into two. A woman must continually watch herself. She is almost continually accompanied by her own image of herself. Whilst she is walking across a room or whilst she is weeping at the death of her father, she can scarcely avoid envisaging herself walking or weeping. From earliest childhood, she has been taught and persuaded to survey herself continually.

And so she comes to consider the surveyor and the surveyed within her as the two constituent yet always distinctive elements of her identity as a woman....

One might simplify this by saying: men act and women appear. Men look at women. Women watch themselves being looked at. This determines not only most relations between men and women but also the relation of women to themselves. The surveyor of woman in herself is male: the surveyed female. Thus she turns herself into an object — and most particularly an object of vision: a sight.

—John Berger, Ways of Seeing (London: Penguin Books, 1972), pp. 45-47.

This passage was written over 30 years ago, before feminism infused contemporary culture to the extent that it has. So, the severity of some of its pronouncements may not be as absolute now as it was when it was written. However, the basis of Berger's argument still seems to hold true today: We men dress to reflect our power (such as it may be) over others, thus revealing relatively little of our vulnerable bodies, while women dress to be looked at, thus playing up their sex appeal by revealing as much of their bodies as may be appropriate at any given time.

[angel nympho]

Originally posted by kasia@Mar 21 2003, 06:17 AM
Originally posted by FrozenPizza@Mar 20 2003, 07:58 PM
Originally posted by angel nympho@Mar 20 2003, 04:43 PM
Here's why men don't show off skin: WOMEN THINK IT'S NASTY!

If women loved to see men in spandex, I'm sure it'd catch on. But truth of the matter is, women are the only ones who, when dressed skankily, are still appealing.
Agreed. Men are nasty and women are beautiful.
but in my original post, i had said that responding with 'we don't want to see men in revealing clothing' is the easy answer to give and only begs the question. i don't believe that this is based on the nature of men and women - that women are naturally more pleasant to look at and men naturally are not. this is something that society has set for us. women are objectified much more often than are men. isn't that something to think about every time we consider wearing low v's or mini skirts?
A naked woman's body is 10000000x more aesthetically pleasing than a man's. Let's face it, penises are ugly. This is not something society has set for me. This is something my eyes have set for me. It's true. Artistic technique also tells me that curves are more pleasing to the eye than sharper lines. Women are curves, men are sharper. But yeah, either way, it's true that women are more objectified than men, but I don't wear cute clothes for men. I wear them 'cuz I paid for them and I like the way they make my body look... because I like it. If there were no men in the world, I'd still wear them because I like the way curves look.

[kasia]

Originally posted by Rogmok@Mar 21 2003, 07:00 AM
hehe.. Kasia, i'll try to answer you question even though everyone else is ignoring you :)

I think its more than just women are more aesthetically please then man (although i think this is 100% true), I think our society totally does not accept men who wear revealing clothing. To me, revealing clothing seems to be associated with being a gay or whatever... and since we live in a highly homophobic world, most guys will do anything to not be associated with that type of lifestyle.

Whereas women who were revealing clothes are given a lot of attention, lots of stares.. and i guess some women dig that... so it enourages girls to wear stuff like that (so they get more attention)

I think it all comes back to how people will percieve who you are and what you are merely by the clothing you wear. And since guys (for the most part) don't want to be percieved as gay.. they will stay away from wearing revealing clothes. AND.. there is nothing really to reveal...
but why is it perceived as gay? i don't think that has been the case since the beginning of time. and i think shuriken brings up a good point - dressing in a revealing manner seems to demonstrate vulnerability. of course, many contemporary feminists are trying to make a different case now - similar to the what angel nympho is saying. they try to argue that we can dress skimpy either to appease ourselves or use it to our advantage. it can actually be empowering. sometimes, though, i wonder if these people are in major denial. and i don't just mean angel_nympho- many of my college professors have tried to make this claim.

[Shuriken]

Originally posted by angel nympho@Mar 21 2003, 06:08 PM
A naked woman's body is 10000000x more aesthetically pleasing than a man's. &nbsp;Let's face it, penises are ugly. &nbsp;

I wonder how many gay men would agree with this statement.

This is not something society has set for me. &nbsp;This is something my eyes have set for me. &nbsp;

So, society in no way determines how one's eyes perceive the world?

But yeah, either way, it's true that women are more objectified than men, but I don't wear cute clothes for men. &nbsp;I wear them 'cuz I paid for them and I like the way they make my body look... because I like it. &nbsp;If there were no men in the world, I'd still wear them because I like the way curves look. &nbsp;

I would like to think that this is true. But I do have to wonder whether women consider the clothes they wear to be "cute" primarily because such clothes make their bodies appear "cute" to themselves — or to men. Would a woman wear a particular outfit if she thought that it made her appearance repulsive to men? The "Goth" movement suggests that this might be true. After all, I find Goth get-ups and make-up to be tough on the eyes. But do Goth guys find them attractive? And if they didn't, would Goth gals continues to dress in such a way?

Having published an academic article on the subject of nudity in film, this is an issue that I've tossed around in my head for some time: To what extent do women take pride in their appearance for themselves, and to what extent do they do so because it affirms their presence in the eyes of men? When we dress, aren't we always — at least to some extent — dressing to be judged by others? There may never be a satisfactory answer to these questions.

But either way, whether dressing "for men" or dressing "for herself," a woman's ability to attract the gaze (male or otherwise) is a source of power that she shouldn't be ashamed of. Granted, it's a power that has often been abused and corrupted — especially by the more sophomoric kinds of pornography, but also in everyday life. And women should never be reduced to — or judged solely by — their appearance. But a woman taking delight in the way she looks and dressing in a manner that reflects this is one way for her to proclaim and affirm her own presence in the universe. And this is to be celebrated.

In other words, ladies, if you've got it, flaunt it. Just don't tease — please...

[VV o n g B a]

Originally posted by kasia@Mar 21 2003, 03:24 PM
but why is it perceived as gay? i don't think that has been the case since the beginning of time.
i went to a 50 cent rap concert last weekend. and while his raps contain the obligatory use of "faggot" in a demeaning manner, one of the first things he did was take off his shirt to show off his body. and even as a guy, i have to admit that his physique is impressive. i mean that guy was hella stacked. and it didn't eminate a bit of femininity. simply showing off skin isn't necessarily considered gay. showing off a bulge between your legs w/ speedos is different. and i can't point out why. maybe its partly fear on other guys' part that their member is smaller so they don't want to look?

[angel nympho]

Okay.... whatever... this thread is going nowhere... think I'm in denial? Whatever. Then don't dress skanky. I'm not saying I dress skanky, but I sure as hell dress the way I want to and don't let anybody tell me otherwise. Ya'll can think I'm in denial or think that I'm a slave to society or whatever the fuck you want... that just means that you'll leave all the good clothes on the rack for me to pick up later.

[kasia]

Originally posted by angel nympho@Mar 21 2003, 05:55 PM
Okay.... whatever... this thread is going nowhere... think I'm in denial? &nbsp;Whatever. &nbsp;Then don't dress skanky. &nbsp;I'm not saying I dress skanky, but I sure as hell dress the way I want to and don't let anybody tell me otherwise. &nbsp;Ya'll can think I'm in denial or think that I'm a slave to society or whatever the fuck you want... that just means that you'll leave all the good clothes on the rack for me to pick up later.
actually, i think that this thread is finally getting somewhere and there's no need to get defensive. by saying that you may be in denial - and not just you but the many of theorists that think the same way you do - i'm not by any means questioning your intelligence. the question of whether we're kidding ourselves when we say we're dressing this way for ourselves is not an easy one to answer. as shuriken has stated, he researched this issue for an academic article and gave it much consideration but is still unable to draw any conclusions. despite the fact that it may be impossible to find an answer, i still think it's healthy to have discussions about this. e.g., why is dressing in a revealing manner for guys perceived as gay? because it's a feminine thing to do? why is it perceived as feminine to dress revealing? etc. etc.

i'll be the first to say that i like wearing dresses and short skirts and heels. but i think i'd be kidding myself if i tried to say that i'm doing it only for myself and not even in part for the attention that i may get from other guys (when i'm single) or my bf (when i'm dating somebody). but i would still have to keep in mind that the only reason why it would draw their attention is because our society has dictated to them that women dressed in this manner are appealing. and that would make me uncomfortable.

bah! :angry: yes, i do think that we're slaves to a male-dominated society. we, including me.

[deez nuts]

Originally posted by kasia@Mar 21 2003, 10:04 PM


bah! :angry: yes, i do think that we're slaves to a male-dominated society. we, including me.
sorry

[Napoleon Chynamite]

Not to get too deep into discussion here, but the male institutional privilege and societal influence holds a lot in common with white institutional privilege that so many whites will deny. We have no control over what ethnicity or sex we are born into but that doesn't mean that we shouldn't acknowledge how the wheels turn. :P and of course often times it is difficult to understand, admit, or agree to the existence of the uneven dominance or influence from certain groups in various societies, esp. when you feel that it is out of your control.

[artsfartsyjanet]

Originally posted by golden_buns@Mar 22 2003, 06:00 PM
What??
We're all slaves of society rules period.
Men also dress the way society (especially women) wants them to dress. If suddenly all women start saying that men look hot on a tight mini skirt, be sure that you'll see us at the mall shopping them.

The only way to have equality on how much skin is shown would be either by convincing women that men revealing skin is hot, or by convincing men that women in revealing clothes isn't appealing.
i grew up in a pretty strict household, and my family's older friends pretty much have some kind of negativity when women wear revealing clothing. So, i guess depending on how you're raised, I never really wear revealing clothing in public unless i'm on the beach or at a pool. I think people can still be sexy even if less skin is exposed.

And commenting on frozenpizza, I agree that those who are privileged may not acknowledge or claim such a status.

[kasia]

Originally posted by golden_buns@Mar 22 2003, 03:00 PM
Men also dress the way society (especially women) wants them to dress.
i would disagree. at the very least, it's not to the same extent.

[Azn Retribution]

I think it is best summedup as this.

"Men control fashion"

"Women control everything else"

[CrX3183]

well in my opinion, there isn't much clothing that i guy can wear to be all revealing and i wouldn't were it if there was. <_<

[mr. x]

the only men who control fashion are gay men

[kasia]

Originally posted by Azn Retribution@Mar 23 2003, 01:10 PM
I think it is best summedup as this.

"Men control fashion"

"Women control everything else"
what's everything else?

[kasia]

Originally posted by mr. x@Mar 23 2003, 02:13 PM
the only men who control fashion are gay men
are you saying that all designers are gay? and if so - is that a fact or are you basing that assumption on the fact that they are designers and thus engaging in tautological reasoning?

even assuming that designers are all gay - they're not the ones who control the fashion industry. they base a lot of their decisions on what they think people want to see.

[Tao]

btw, is calvin klein gay? i know this is sorta outta the blue, but does anyone know?

[angelwiththesword]

people should just wear what they are comfortable wearing, and not what the media says they should wear or what other people (peers, collegues, etc.) tell you to wear.

if it so happens that a person is comfortable wearing something that is revealing (like the JLo lowlowlowlowlowlowlow v-cut dress) then that's all good.

likewise, if a person enjoys being bundled up (yours truly) that's good too.

it's all about comfort level.

[mr. x]

haha, i bet some day, some actress will show up at the oscars bare-breasted but with a leaf to cover her (censored) for "decency"

[angelwiththesword]

what's the bet JLo will be the one to do it?

[moschikat]

mnfngh, guys out here walk around half nekkid all the time cuz' its so hot . . .

eye candy is always good :lol:

[Fireblade]

Originally posted by mr. x@Mar 27 2003, 09:22 PM
haha, i bet some day, some actress will show up at the oscars bare-breasted but with a leaf to cover her (censored) for "decency"
didn't lil' kim do that for like the grammys or some other awards show?

anyway, here's another question that i'd like to throw into the fray...

if you're a nudist, and you're accustomed to the way you look, and your family is that way too, would wearing revealing clothes make you more akin to your lifestyle as a nudist? or would it just be something that society has dictated to you?

i'm asking, because i know a couple of nudists, and for them, they feel as though clothes compliments a person's body. if you compared a guy in a losely fitted suit to a guy in armani suit that's fit to his size, you'll find that most girls would go with the guy with the fitted suit. so could it be that we're just looking at the wrong question here? is it that for most guys, we don't tend to wear clothes that are made to make our bodies look alright? we all know that girls have ways to make themselves look more attractive with the right skirt, blouse, what have you. for me, i think if a woman is comfortable with wearing clothes that makes her feel good, then good for her. my wardrobe isn't full of great clothes, but once in a while if i get a look from a chick that resonates "damn you're hot", then i'd feel good about it for the rest of the day. knowing that you're attractive is a powerful feeling.

[VV o n g B a]

Originally posted by golden_buns@Mar 22 2003, 05:00 PM
What??
We're all slaves of society rules period.
Men also dress the way society (especially women) wants them to dress. If suddenly all women start saying that men look hot on a tight mini skirt, be sure that you'll see us at the mall shopping them.
i think this deserves more attention. ever since sexual liberation and feminism hit western/industrializing/democratizing nations, women's clothing has become more and more revealing. whereas in the past women wouldn't dare to wear revealing clothing, now it's much more accepted. it's power that is given to women over their own bodies and they choose to do more and more enticing things with it. maybe its competition... once social values changed to where things like this became more acceptable, women felt that in order to compete with other women they had to reveal more skin.

factor this in with what men want in women (beauty) vs what women want in men (uh...still not sure beauty? money? power? ambition? intelligence?) and u see that men still compete, just in different ways b/c usually women want more than just beauty. men buy all sorts of things to increase their status, climb rungs of business/gov etc... and i'll bet that part of the reason is the inborn need to impress women. not that women don't also do these things, it just less likely they'll do it to impress a guy.

[angel nympho]

Originally posted by mr. x@Mar 28 2003, 05:22 AM
haha, i bet some day, some actress will show up at the oscars bare-breasted but with a leaf to cover her (censored) for "decency"
Well.. this wasn't the Oscars, but don't you remember Lil Kim's weird purple "dress" with the sticker over her nipple?

[angel nympho]

Originally posted by Fireblade@Mar 28 2003, 06:08 PM
didn't lil' kim do that for like the grammys or some other awards show?
Oops, sorry.

[Napoleon Chynamite]

Originally posted by VV o n g B a@Mar 28 2003, 10:42 AM
Originally posted by golden_buns@Mar 22 2003, 05:00 PM
If suddenly all women start saying that men look hot on a tight mini skirt, be sure that you'll see us at the mall shopping them.

Uh, not really..... At least I wouldn't....I wear what i think looks good...not what other people (even women) think. :ph34r: :unsure: :blush:

[ChinaLama]

Originally posted by kasia@Mar 19 2003, 03:01 AM
it's cool to show off your shoulders, your tiny waist, some cleavage...but have any of you stopped and wondered why men don't do us the same favor? an easy answer would be that it isn't fashionable for men to do so. but why not?
cuz my body is fugly. my face isn't, but my body... :(

[tapestrybabe]

i dont want to end up sounding weird or anything... but do you think the difference in how men and women dress... is kinda sorta like a biological thing... when i wear a dress, when i wear a short skirt, something revealing, when i wear makeup... etc... it all ends up making me feel feminine... and more womanly... and i dont see whats wrong with that... i think it ends up feeling a natural feeling for me...

and i remember meeting a guy in college...
he came out of the closet to me... not as a gay person... cuz he definitely liked women... but he came out of the closet as someone who felt like he identified himself as a woman... and whom ended up liking to dress up as a woman... who liked to wear a dress, skirts and everything... and this compulsion/feeling of his.. started out when he was a very young boy... and i'm just asking... why would a man... want to feel compelled to identify himself as a female, wear women's clothing... if its not for some biological quirk in them...

[Napoleon Chynamite]

Originally posted by tapestrybabe@Mar 30 2003, 08:19 PM
i dont want to end up sounding weird or anything... but do you think the difference in how men and women dress... is kinda sorta like a biological thing... when i wear a dress, when i wear a short skirt, something revealing, when i wear makeup... etc... it all ends up making me feel feminine... and more womanly... and i dont see whats wrong with that... i think it ends up feeling a natural feeling for me...

and i remember meeting a guy in college...
he came out of the closet to me... not as a gay person... cuz he definitely liked women... but he came out of the closet as someone who felt like he identified himself as a woman... and whom ended up liking to dress up as a woman... who liked to wear a dress, skirts and everything... and this compulsion/feeling of his.. started out when he was a very young boy... and i'm just asking... why would a man... want to feel compelled to identify himself as a female, wear women's clothing... if its not for some biological quirk in them...
See that's the thing if a guy can feel like dressing up and taking in all these characteristics or quirks that are seen as 'female' then it makes me think that 'male' and 'female' are more representative of a learned or acquired framework of thinking or ideology somewhere along the line of one's upbringing rather than an innate biological or genetically inherited method or way of thinking.

[kasia]

Originally posted by tapestrybabe@Mar 30 2003, 08:19 PM
i dont want to end up sounding weird or anything... but do you think the difference in how men and women dress... is kinda sorta like a biological thing... when i wear a dress, when i wear a short skirt, something revealing, when i wear makeup... etc... it all ends up making me feel feminine... and more womanly... and i dont see whats wrong with that... i think it ends up feeling a natural feeling for me...

and i remember meeting a guy in college...
he came out of the closet to me... not as a gay person... cuz he definitely liked women... but he came out of the closet as someone who felt like he identified himself as a woman... and whom ended up liking to dress up as a woman... who liked to wear a dress, skirts and everything... and this compulsion/feeling of his.. started out when he was a very young boy... and i'm just asking... why would a man... want to feel compelled to identify himself as a female, wear women's clothing... if its not for some biological quirk in them...
but ... the fact that he was compelled to wear women's clothing doesn't imply that it is a biological thing for women to dress in a revealing manner. your friend was merely following the norms for women in our culture and our time.

[Shuriken]

"Vested Interests: Cross-Dressing and Cultural Anxiety" by Marjorie Garber (http://prelectur.stanford.edu/lecturers/garber/vested.html)

[angel nympho]

I really don't think it has to do with society roles or whatnot. I mean, most normal girls and guys don't dress THAT provacatively unless they're, like, out on a mission to get laid or something.

The girls who really do it all the time to an extreme are the girls who lack something in the self-esteem department. There are some people out there that really just need the attention to affirm their own self-worth. It sounds twisted, maybe, but that's what happens.

[deez nuts]

Originally posted by angel nympho@Mar 31 2003, 06:23 PM
I really don't think it has to do with society roles or whatnot. I mean, most normal girls and guys don't dress THAT provacatively unless they're, like, out on a mission to get laid or something.


i know i rock the gucci thong when i'm out on a seek and destroy mission.

[golden_buns]

Originally posted by Chasiubao_Boy@Mar 31 2003, 04:31 PM
i know i rock the gucci thong when i'm out on a seek and destroy mission.
Just play the mammal song while you're at it

[TyroneK(prettypretty)]

Originally posted by Chasiubao_Boy@Mar 31 2003, 07:31 PM
Originally posted by angel nympho@Mar 31 2003, 06:23 PM
I really don't think it has to do with society roles or whatnot. &nbsp;I mean, most normal girls and guys don't dress THAT provacatively unless they're, like, out on a mission to get laid or something.


i know i rock the gucci thong when i'm out on a seek and destroy mission.
CSB, I just blinded myself Oedipus Rex style after I read that.

[golden_buns]

Originally posted by VBKao@Mar 31 2003, 06:00 PM
CSB, I just blinded myself Oedipus Rex style after I read that.
Don't play dumb on us man. We know you like it, you phone slut.

[TyroneK(prettypretty)]

They're only responding to my personality!

[bigwong235]

Originally posted by Chasiubao_Boy@Mar 31 2003, 04:31 PM
i know i rock the gucci thong when i'm out on a seek and destroy mission.
seduce and destroy!!

[nonamerasian]

no thats dead on. but this is cultural right? i mean, lots of african and south american tribes didn't mind their men wearing revealing clothing.

But while their standards are considered revealing in our society, it isn't always so in theirs.

I think it's the Huaorani whose men walk around with nothing but a tiny thing tied around their foreskin (may be some other Amazonian tribe).

If a Huaorani went around like that in Central Park, that would be considered revealing, perhaps too revealing, but it isn't amongst those people.

However, if a grown man were to walk around without that little thing hanging on his dick amongst those people, that would be considered too revealing. Even obscene.

Our different cultures can't be perfectly compared.

[robotic]

i think feminine beauty is more admired in our society. as alibabaincorporated pointed out, men revealing their body -- its not necessarily seen as, masculine and people often question your "gayness" - yet again, it's a cultural and social build-up which makes it okay for girls to dress revealingly, and boys to cover themselves as much as they can. but i've always been a little puzzled about why (it's only) women who want to dress 'revealingly' often on purpose, more overso because i can't remember the last time i wore a spaghetti top, a short skirt etc. maybe i feel more comfortable in tshirts, jeans and sweatshirts than other girls do.

[ellsworth81]

if the increase in sexual interest as a result of revealing clothing outnumbered the amount of shit you'd get from wearing "revealing" clothing, i'm sure there'd be plenty of guys wearing thongs and such.

[nonamerasian]

it's cool to show off your shoulders, your tiny waist, some cleavage...but have any of you stopped and wondered why men don't do us the same favor? an easy answer would be that it isn't fashionable for men to do so. but why not?

Just a hypothesis, but maybe our society is more willing to show men as sexy without the men having to wear revealing clothing to be accepted as such more so than our society shows women as sexy without them having to wear revealing clothing to be accepted as such.

If that’s the case, perhaps that’s why men don’t feel the need to be as revealing as some women even if they want to be seen as hot.

[mrazntre]

In our society, we'd just call those guys GAY.

[Kuchana]

Just a hypothesis, but maybe our society is more willing to show men as sexy without the men having to wear revealing clothing to be accepted as such more so than our society shows women as sexy without them having to wear revealing clothing to be accepted as such.

If that’s the case, perhaps that’s why men don’t feel the need to be as revealing as some women even if they want to be seen as hot.

What's with men wearing the wife beater shirts then? And if he's built, you know a lot of the times he'll take any opportunity to show his chest off. I hate it when they can run without a shirt but I can't.

But for the most part, women are the ones who should be showing skin while men don't. What a double standard.

[mrazntre]

Kuchana, feel free to run without a shirt.

*takes off shirt to reveal wifebeater*

















*puts on sweater to hide pathetically disgusting physical features*

[shy]

Kuchana, feel free to run without a shirt.

actually, she could do that legally here in toronto. but i wouldn't suggest running w/out at least some support... OUCH!

[kitty]

actually, she could do that legally here in toronto. but i wouldn't suggest running w/out at least some support... OUCH!

yay... they haven't repealed that law? goodie!!

i loved having the ability to take off my shirt in public. my friend actually did it soon after we got the law, to play tennis with me in high school. she had small boobs so it made sense, i couldn't 'cuz it woulda hurted.

[mrazntre]

actually, she could do that legally here in toronto. but i wouldn't suggest running w/out at least some support... OUCH!

she has two hands, 1 for each b00b.

[mr. x]

yay... they haven't repealed that law? goodie!!

i loved having the ability to take off my shirt in public. my friend actually did it soon after we got the law, to play tennis with me in high school. she had small boobs so it made sense, i couldn't 'cuz it woulda hurted.

wait but why would u wanna?

1) if its against the law, and no ones watching it doesnt matter in the 1st place

2) if someone IS watching to keep you girls obeying the law, why do u want him/her to see you shirtless?

[shy]

wait but why would u wanna?

1) if its against the law, and no ones watching it doesnt matter in the 1st place

2) if someone IS watching to keep you girls obeying the law, why do u want him/her to see you shirtless?

wait... are you confused... or am i? it's NOT against the law to go shirtless for women, in public, here. and i think where kittygirl is too.

she has two hands, 1 for each b00b.

ah, but then what's the point of running if you aren't going to use your arms properly? running w/ poor techinique is a waste of time.

[mr. x]

wait... are you confused... or am i? it's NOT against the law to go shirtless for women, in public, here. and i think where kittygirl is too.



ah, but then what's the point of running if you aren't going to use your arms properly? running w/ poor techinique is a waste of time.

well what im saying is, even if it were legal for me to go steaking WHY would i want to? i got nothing to show

im not saying u have nothing to show (hell you have plenty to show) but WHY would u want people to gawk is what im saying

[mrazntre]

well, you're gonna have to sacrifice if it's what you want to do.

[shy]

well what im saying is, even if it were legal for me to go steaking WHY would i want to? i got nothing to show

im not saying u have nothing to show (hell you have plenty to show) but WHY would u want people to gawk is what im saying

ahh... okay, now i understand you. i thought that you misundertood about the law we have or something.

well, you're right. if i were to go topless, the down side would be to be gawked at.

i have not gone topless here in toronto because it's still a relevantly new law and we're still really not use to it. it would be different if it was part of the culture/environment we grew up in but it's weird when all of the sudden, a fairly conservative society says, "okay ladies! you can roam the streets of toronto baring your breasts!" it's not like it's easy to say, "just give me a sec so i can undo my bra..."

but... i HAVE gone topless when i go to other countries where it is quite normal for women to tan topless at their beaches and such. and i can say that my reason for doing so was not a question of 'to be or not to be gawked at.'

bottom line? it felt damn good to not to constricted. it was a liberating experience. i felt so free and alive...

oh... and i got a wicked tan w/ minimal tan lines. that night, back on the cruise ship which was the vessel of my vacation, i was able to wear a really elegant evening gown that bared alot of my shoulder and back and you know what? NO TAN LINE!!! w00t! :biggrin:

[mr. x]

^---i c i c, im sure maybe in canada or something but if i were a woman id hafta be darn weirded in the head to go topless tennis just anywhere around here

this japanese girl in HS came back and you could totally see paler lines where her bathing suit straps were, it was kinda cute tho

[Kuchana]

she has two hands, 1 for each b00b.

thanks for the suggestion but i'd feel uncomfortable running without some coverup. maybe if i wasn't repressed by my conservative side i would:P

[shy]

^---i c i c, im sure maybe in canada or something but if i were a woman id hafta be darn weirded in the head to go topless tennis just anywhere around here

this japanese girl in HS came back and you could totally see paler lines where her bathing suit straps were, it was kinda cute tho

i would think doing any sport topless to be too weird. but i did see topless gymnastics once... weird but interesting. in a weird sort of way... :biggrin:

as for the paler tan lines, they are sexy but it depends on what one is wearing. like if i wore a tank top with a bit of tan line sticking out from my cleavage, i've been told that looked cool. but certain evening gowns look better w/out tan lines.

[shy]

btw, mr. x., here's the link for the topless gymnastics i was talking about. currently number nine on the top ten list!

www dot kontraband.com/index.asp?p=moviesmain

[mr. x]

btw, mr. x., here's the link for the topless gymnastics i was talking about. currently number nine on the top ten list!

www dot kontraband.com/index.asp?p=moviesmain

top ten list of....?

i guess in a social setting like a cocktail party it might look weird (tan lines, not naked gymnastics :tongue: )

but it was just a hot class day so it was kinda cute like i said