hapa and mulattos...

[tapestrybabe]

http://forums.yellowworld.org/index.php?s=...=15&#entry93106 (http://forums.yellowworld.org/index.php?s=&act=ST&f=35&t=6853&st=15&#entry93106)

hapa, mulatto-- they deal with issues of being a person of mixed blood...

i wonder what everyone else take is on this...
do you feel hapas share similarities with mulattos (half black, half white)?? Or do you feel you deal with seperate issues from them?? And if so, what are the similarities.. and what are differences... those separate issues??

PS: I never even knew what the term mulatto meant until the member introduced themself on the forums... i actually had to look up the word to see if it had any meaning to it all... same thing with the word mestizo...

[Hiroshi2]

Somethings similar, something's different.

Of course, being in the South, "mulattoes" (you probably shouldn't use that word, it's as outdated as a horse-and-buggy) are much more common than hapas. I've met quite a few, are friends with some, and while the issues are similar (such as not fitting in) they are also different. Well, let me elaborate a bit. When you say hapa, you mean half-asian. But that could be white-asian, black-asian, etc., right? Well, with me personally, I share some experiences of dealing with blacks who staunchly believe in the "one-drop" rule (no matter what you're mixed with, you're black if you have 'one drop' of black blood) and the conflict in that situation, but the situation is different because blacks and whites have an entirely different history than do blacks and asians. That's my personal experience. As for comparing people of white/asian descent as opposed to black/white, then I really don't know, quite frankly. But that's just my two cents. I hope it made sense, I'm typing this down kinda fast.

[tapestrybabe]

well... i'm no history buff.. so if i sound ignorant or whateverz.. than you know why...

and yeah, it can be agreed upon that theres definitely a difference between black and asian history... and yeah, there has definitely been a black movement... like with Martin Luther King... Malcom X and so forth... and yes, there was a sense of solidarity of the blacks coming together... and i wonder when it comes to those blacks who may have been mixed... like those who may have looked far more white than black... who had far way lighter skin... i wonder what their perception of it all was... if they were an outsider looking in... if they felt seperate from the movement... like they may have felt discrimination from within the black community of not really being one of them... instead of discriminations from without... from the mainstream...

same thing with today... when it comes to the asian american movement.. we got mixed asians... hapas... who feel seperate from asian americans.... cuz from their experiences ppl share here of not really belonging... like it seems a lot of mixed asians tend to end up feeling discriminated against from within, from other asians... instead of from without...

[BeTheReds]

Well, I don't have the experience of being a mulatto, so I can't say any similarities with any authority, but I think basically what TB said above. It seems to me that mulattoes would be more readily accepted by the Black community as black, whereas with mixed asians we are less readily accepted depending on the case. This would create a vastly different experience in my opinion.

[YuheiCarreau]

Originally posted by BeTheReds@Mar 9 2003, 09:23 PM
It seems to me that mulattoes would be more readily accepted by the Black community as black, whereas with mixed asians we are less readily accepted depending on the case.
If a Black-Asian mix would be more readily accepted by Blacks than Asians, on what terms would that acceptance be granted? As Hiroshi points out, there is an idea many Blacks (and Whites) believe that anyone who looks remotely Black is always going to be treated as such and should therefor identify only as Black - not as mixed, part White, or in this case part Asian.

[BeTheReds]

Originally posted by YuheiCarreau@Mar 10 2003, 04:28 AM
If a Black-Asian mix would be more readily accepted by Blacks than Asians, on what terms would that acceptance be granted? As Hiroshi points out, there is an idea many Blacks (and Whites) believe that anyone who looks remotely Black is always going to be treated as such and should therefor identify only as Black - not as mixed, part White, or in this case part Asian.
huh?

I was saying that a mulatto (meaning 1/2white 1/2black) is generally accepted as black by blacks than a mixed asian (of any mix) would be accepted by asians as asian.

Whether blacks would be more receptive to a 1/2 black 1/2 asian or a 1/2 black 1/2 white is beyond me.

[Hiroshi2]

Originally posted by BeTheReds@Mar 9 2003, 09:23 PM
It seems to me that mulattoes would be more readily accepted by the Black community as black, whereas with mixed asians we are less readily accepted depending on the case.  This would create a vastly different experience in my opinion.
I'd pretty much agree with that statement.

Yuhei and BTR, the weird thing, is in my experience, while some blacks would just consider me black, and even say things like, 'Oh I forgot your mom was asian', there are others who wouldn't let me forget it and would always try to find how my asianness made me different. I see it to some extent with so-called multattoes, but it may be harder for me because asian culture is even more foreign to most black people than "white" culture. And ignorance never leads to anything good.

My point is, I don't think the problems hapas and "mulattoes" face are harder than the other, it's just that sometimes it may manifest itself in slightly different ways.

Of course, all of this is in my experience, how it would be for Eurasians vs "mulattoes" may be different. Perhaps because there's less of a divide between white and asian people, there's slightly less conflict than there would be for someone half-black/white.

;)

[angel nympho]

Isn't the term considered offensive? Something about it being another language word for "donkey" or "ass" or "mule" or something? *Shrug* I heard that on KROQ.

[Hiroshi2]

Originally posted by angel nympho@Mar 10 2003, 06:24 PM
Isn't the term considered offensive?  Something about it being another language word for "donkey" or "ass" or "mule" or something?  *Shrug*  I heard that on KROQ.
Yes, it means "mule" basically. A mule is the result of the mating of a horse with a donkey. A mule is a "mixed-breed". A "mulatto" is of mixed-race.

That's why I said earlier that I felt a bit uncomfortable using the term. I think it's one of those words that's more archaic than it is offensive.

Of course, some old-timers around here call so-called mulattoes "high-yellows" which would be even more offensive.

[kimpossible]

Originally posted by angel nympho@Mar 10 2003, 04:24 PM
Isn't the term considered offensive? Something about it being another language word for "donkey" or "ass" or "mule" or something? *Shrug* I heard that on KROQ.
This is my understanding also.

[tapestrybabe]

who knows..
maybe his introduction was meant to insult, offend or whateverz... and it was nothing more than just jibberish... i dunno...

anyways, that just goes to show..
my ignorance about this topic...

[kimpossible]

Originally posted by Hiroshi2@Mar 9 2003, 08:36 PM

Of course, all of this is in my experience, how it would be for Eurasians vs "mulattoes" may be different. Perhaps because there's less of a divide between white and asian people,


I wouldn't say there is less of a divide. What I would say is that there is a longer history of whites in Asia due to colonization and trade, which are really entertwined issues. Often I wonder if this is where a lot of the bad associations with white/Asian people come from. Stinky, hairy white criminals, oh excuse me... sailors, show up on the shore and hit the whorehouses. I would imagine thats how the first wave of mixed race Asian kids showed up. I don't buy into the big romanticized crap about nice Asian ladies of virtue and chivalrous white men of breeding defying society to be in love. Outside of places like north China where you have borders between Caucasians and Asians where mixed race people would be expected and not uncommon, I think the early origins of mixed white/Asian people was not terribly glamorous.

[nonamerasian]

... and yeah, there has definitely been a black movement... like with Martin Luther King... Malcom X and so forth... and yes, there was a sense of solidarity of the blacks coming together... and i wonder when it comes to those blacks who may have been mixed... like those who may have looked far more white than black... who had far way lighter skin... i wonder what their perception of it all was... if they were an outsider looking in... if they felt seperate from the movement... like they may have felt discrimination from within the black community of not really being one of them... instead of discriminations from without... from the mainstream...

In the U.S., one can't downplay the legacy of the one-drop rule. While many "Blacks" are of mixed ancestry, because of the legacy, socially and politically, they view themselves as Black.

This has probably cut-down on some of the identity issues felt by multiracials in other groups today, or even biracial Blacks of today.

Although there are segments of the U.S.'s Black population who have identified as mixed, particularly when there was a social advantage to doing so, many, many more didn't back in the day. This became ever more true during the "I'm black and I'm proud" movement.

It became vogue to be Black and many during this period felt that if people identified as other or partially other, they weren't proud to be Black. It was now a social advantage to identify as "pure." Some mixed people who didn't accept this were discriminated against (sometimes it is still so).

Even way before that, there have been people clearly of mixed ancestry who identified as being Black with a White grandpappy or Black with a Cherokee great grandmother, or just Black.

Some of these people played a huge part in fighting for African-American justice, while using their phenotype as an advantage to help those they identified as their racial brothers and sisters. One of the best known of these people is a multiracial man who went undercover to bring lynchings to light and lynchers to justice.

If you look a "Black" civil rights fighters through the years, you'll see that several multiracials didn't only feel a part of the movement, but were actually a driving force in the movement.

I'm not sure how multiracials who identified as multiracial were treated during that period, but my guess would be that not as harshly as some of those during the "I'm Black and I'm proud" period.

During both of these periods though, I bet because of the one-drop rule, multiracials were forced by society to feel as "one of them," regardless of whether they also felt a multiracial identity.

As far as I can gather from the stories told to me from even passing Blacks (multiracials), they usually didn't have the luxury being an outsider looking in.

[hapakristina]

i think that hapas and mulattos (as well as many other mixed race people) go through similar experiences. this feeling of not quite being fully accepted because you're neither one way or the other. in that sense, there are a lot of similar feelings. however, given that asian culture is so different from that of african-american culture.. the experiences are different. heck, the way african-americans (and even mixes and halfies) are treated in this world.. i'd say a mulatto's experience is surely to be a hell of a lot different than a hapa.

i post on mixedfolks.com as well and there are a lot of mulattos there. you can see the differences that hapas and mulattos do have, but many times we're often faced with the reality that just being mixed alone is a whole different experience than being monoracial that we can share uniquely between the two different kinds of mixes.

as far as the comment that mulattos would be more readily accepted in the black community than lets say a hapa would in the asian community.. i disagree. they're both equally discriminated against. mulattos are looked at as sell-outs.. someone gave into whites. many mulattos are hated on and not accepted by blacks because of this. likewise, many of the same views come from full asians towards hapas.

and all of this highly depends on where you're growing up. growing up in large cities or diverse regions, like the west coast is a different experience than someone growing up in a small town or in the south. etc..

[coagulated fat]

I think mulattos must be discriminated against more than hapas.. I've never experienced blatant anti-hapa racism.

[BeTheReds]

I think mulattos must be discriminated against more than hapas.. I've never experienced blatant anti-hapa racism.


That's because it doesn't exist. At least white on hapa racism anyway. LOL!

[coagulated fat]

That's what i was thinking -- it doesn't exist -- but then it could be just because I look more asian and hang out with predominantly asians and am therefore accepted by them.

[hapakristina]

I think mulattos must be discriminated against more than hapas.. I've never experienced blatant anti-hapa racism.
i would agree to some point, except it depends on where we're talking about.

the only "anti-hapa" racism i faced was probably more so than against my being hapa, against my NOT being korean. my ex's mother hated me from day one because i'm not some "cute little korean girl" like she wanted for her son. it hurt me a lot.. and 2 years after being together she was still trying to find reasons for me not to be with him because i wasn't "good enough" for him. my weight, my height (i'm like 4 inches taller than him), my lack of parental financial support, etc.. as long as i wasn't korean, i wasn't good enough.

i hated it. :cry: it hurt me a lot because i had never done anything to deserve or waranting such treatment from her. i can't change that i'm taller than him and i sure as hell can't change that i'm not korean. it eventually tore us apart and she became a focal point in our relationship and i broke it off with him.

[hapakristina]

That's because it doesn't exist. At least white on hapa racism anyway. LOL!
that's true.. i'm assumed by most non-asians to be asian. and even then, they don't seem to be the one with "issues." it would seem that discrimination towards mixed individuals is usually comes from the minority group in the mix towards the parent that mixed with caucasian or the resulting child.

[coagulated fat]

Some hapas seem sort of racist towards other hapas. When I told one hapa guy my ethnicity he said "I feel sorry for you." I don't know what that was about.

[Hiroshi2]

I think mulattos must be discriminated against more than hapas.. I've never experienced blatant anti-hapa racism.



I am hapa (black/asian) and I put up with racism and that type of crap from people, black people, white people, not asian people, because I simply don't come into contact with a lot of them.....but I have several friends who are mulatto (I hate using that word........), which is a much more common mix here in the Deep South and their experiences are similar to mine, partly because we're all half-black, so as far as treatment from black people is concerned, it's pretty similar........at the same time, I have a couple of friends who are hapa (white/asian) and I can relate to their situations as well.


I don't the difference is really THAT much. Seems like, in both cases, it just has a lot to do with relations between whites and minorities.

[coagulated fat]

to an extent that's true - but there's still this underlyin discomfort within this lingering white american ideology with the fact that hapas represent a sort of a dangerous, suspicious crossing over - an impurity that threatens racial legibility. that is where i think similarities with 'mulattoes' and hapas lie.

love,
prof. frink
I don't think this is just a white american ideology.

But I agree with everything else you said, ever read that book Passing?

[TB4000]

As far as the mulatto thing goes, in the black community there are some that look down upon them because most of the ones they've known tend to quote unquote, "act white", or just hang around with white people as opposed to blacks...which isn't exactly true as I know quite a few black/white kids that identify way moreso with the black side of their family. And hapakristina, your man was four inches shorter? Man, you just gave me some hope, girl....I was under the impression that taller women weren't all that interested in shorter men. I'm feeling all feisty now.

[nonamerasian]

I think mulattos must be discriminated against more than hapas.. I've never experienced blatant anti-hapa racism.

I don't personally know a thing about hapa discrimination, but when it comes to the experience of mixed Blacks, the experiences are vastly different for many. While a hapa may have the same experiences of some mixed Blacks, I don't think it is easy to say the hapa experience, as a whole, is either like or not like the mixed Black experience. That is unless hapas often have the same exact experience, in which case that will be completely different from the mixed Black experience (as a whole).

Some mixed Blacks are looked at as sell-outs because they don't identify as being solely Black or solely Black with a White mommy, while others don't experience that.

Some, particularly females, are automatically assumed to be the types to call darker Blacks "jiggaboos" or to simply feel superior because of their mix, while others haven't experienced this.

Some are looked at as having easier lives than other Blacks and are partially resented for this, while others haven't had this experience.

Many feel like they sometimes have to prove their "Blackness," while others sometimes feel as people tend to look at them as overcompensaters who choose to do "Black things" not because of who they are, but because they ARE trying to prove to the world that they are Black. . .Others don't experience this.

Some are looked at just as Blacks, or perhaps even mixed Blacks, and are held to the same standard the "discriminator," Black or non-Black, uses against monoethnics.

Many are subconsciously fetishished for their mix. Some are putdown for it. . ., "If she had gotten her body type from her father's side, she'd be fine."

Some, usually darker mixed Blacks, but some lighter ones as well, never experience these things at all.

If this is similar to the "hapa" experience, then no doubt the experiences are similar.

I know mixed Blacks who are discriminated against by non-Blacks, but it tends to be different. For example, the non-Black may say a racial "joke" and if the mixed person is offended then say, "You aren't really Black so why should you care," or, "You're only part Black," or, "You're different."

They may be told they are "lucky" to be mixed, perhaps told, "You don't 'act Black.'" Many are fetishished, gawked at as a weird creature, or experience some of the other stuff from the list above.

Of course, others never have experienced these from non-Blacks.

Some say their identity is better accepted by Whites, others say by non-Whites.

In a family with many mixes, with several mixed friends and acquaintances, I can say experiences tend to differ greatly amongst mixed Blacks.

[BeTheReds]

graciously undeleted. Thanks AB!

[SunWuKong]

graciously undeleted. Thanks AB!

hey! i was the one who undeleted it.

[BeTheReds]

hey! i was the one who undeleted it.

OH, well then you know it was never physically removed then, even tho u thought it was. LOL

Thanks!

[Banana_Creme]

Isn't it true that all African Americans have some European blood??

Anyways, after reading "nonamerasian's" post, I'd say that there are plenty of similarities. The so-called experience of a bi/multiracial individual varies, depending on where he/she grows up and with whom the individual identifies more closely with. I've never experiened any racism that was specifically anti-hapa from Caucasians, as was mentioned earlier, but some AAs have been less than friendly to my "not-Asian-enough" self in the past.

[Irezumi Kiss]

Isn't it true that all African Americans have some European blood??

Not ALL, but many do, as well as Native American blood. I have this, plus French blood in me from somewhere. I wonder does that make me a "quarter-unpatriotic" for not getting in on the French bashing during the Iraqi War!

Then there are so MANY lines tied to just human beings with "darker skin" that are not necessarily "Black" but could pass for one.

I meet Asian people darker than me all the time. Or maybe with a propensity to get dark in sunlight instead of lobster thermidor. Who knows how many generations of crossed bloodlines from who knows where are unrecessing?

My ex-girlfriend, from Korea, used to toast RILLY dark...and I knew this old Japanese lady artist who was naturally "browned" enough to pass for my grandmother maybe...

[Hiroshi2]

Not ALL, but many do, as well as Native American blood. I have this, plus French blood in me from somewhere. I wonder does that make me a "quarter-unpatriotic" for not getting in on the French bashing during the Iraqi War!

Then there are so MANY lines tied to just human beings with "darker skin" that are not necessarily "Black" but could pass for one.

I meet Asian people darker than me all the time. Or maybe with a propensity to get dark in sunlight instead of lobster thermidor. Who knows how many generations of crossed bloodlines from who knows where are unrecessing?

My ex-girlfriend, from Korea, used to toast RILLY dark...and I knew this old Japanese lady artist who was naturally "browned" enough to pass for my grandmother maybe...



Are you light-skinned?

[Irezumi Kiss]

Somewhat...but more Lisa Bonet brown than Lena Horne light-skinned.

Kinda reddish, sort of like a medium sienna.

I can get darker during the summertime if I'm out long enough.

[Hiroshi2]

Somewhat...but more Lisa Bonet brown than Lena Horne light-skinned.

Kinda reddish, sort of like a medium sienna.

I can get darker during the summertime if I'm out long enough.




Lisa Bonet is yellow, isn't she?


I'm kinda light-skinned, sorta yellowish..............think Pharell from the Neptunes, and that's my exact skin color.


My grandmother on my father's side is lighter than my mother.

[Hiroshi2]

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