police brutality in l.a.

[kasia]

johnny cochran's representing. :wink:

[achtungbaby]

Have you guy seen the video for this? It seems pretty damning. The cop's on tape slugging the kid at least once in the face.

[kasia]

[quote:c9f2083d32="achtungbaby"]Have you guy seen the video for this? It seems pretty damning. The cop's on tape slugging the kid at least once in the face.[/quote:c9f2083d32]

yeh, but i could come up with a pretty damn good defense for those cops.

[thaite]

Not me. I hate cops and criminals alike. The only difference between the two is that one wears a uniform and has a job, but the mentality remains the same.

[kasia]

[quote:7538928157="buoywonder"]Not me. I hate cops and criminals alike. The only difference between the two is that one wears a uniform and has a job, but the mentality remains the same.[/quote:7538928157]

but not every cop abuses his power.

[Arex]

And not every criminal beats the shit out of handcuffed suspects. Or peppersprays kids just trying to go to Dave & Busters Ontario Mills...=)

So, Kasia, what defense would you bring for these officers?

Alex

[Arex]

Actually, I would say (or at least hope) most cops are respectable officers of the law. The problem is, the profession (and the power that comes with it) is a magnet for people who would, in the absence of the badge, be nothing but common street thugs and bullies. There definitely needs to be more oversight of and more accountability for police actions.

Alex

[Arex]

[quote:5a17bb624b="achtungbaby"]Have you guy seen the video for this? It seems pretty damning. The cop's on tape slugging the kid at least once in the face.[/quote:5a17bb624b]

According to the cop's attorneys, he slugged the kid in the face after the kid allegedly grabbed his testicles. If that were truly the case (which I highly doubt given the positions of the suspect and the officers involved), I'd probably react the same way. Also, the cops claim that the kid's legs went limp and they tried to help him by placing him on the car. To me it looked like they just slammed him on there. Pigs.

Alex

[SunWuKong]

[quote:8be915bd69="Arex"]According to the cop's attorneys, he slugged the kid in the face after the kid allegedly grabbed his testicles. If that were truly the case (which I highly doubt given the positions of the suspect and the officers involved), I'd probably react the same way. Also, the cops claim that the kid's legs went limp and they tried to help him by placing him on the car. To me it looked like they just slammed him on there. Pigs.

Alex[/quote:8be915bd69]


Well I think slamming the kid onto the police car was probably fair. For all we know, he probably wasn't cooperating. I don't know what the "official" way is that the LAPD handles arrests, but it seems to me that the punch was unnecessary even [i:8be915bd69]if[/i:8be915bd69] the kid grabbed that cop's balls. I'm sure there are ways to argue that the kid was still considered dangerous and therefore the punch was necessary, but then where does "excessive force" begin? We're talking about a scrawny kid who has been handcuffed behind his back and held on top of the back of the police car. How was that punch really necessary?

[ChinaLama]

maybe kasia's repressed Republican side is trying to burst through her civil-rights cover. :wink:

[achtungbaby]

[quote:7ef2dc2673="ChinaLama"]maybe kasia's repressed Republican side is trying to burst through her civil-rights cover. :wink:[/quote:7ef2dc2673]

Believe me, fewer are more flaming civil rights liberal than kasia. She works for a friggen civil rights firm!

Who's the most flaming commie here? Why, the one who works where the most commies congregate, of course! :twisted:

[ChinaLama]

yeah, and AB doesnt even HIDE his Republican side. Damn cold war mongerers. it's ok, because my brothers from the North will come and EAT YOU. Not my Peking Duck brothers, I mean my kimchee mountain brothers.

[achtungbaby]

Quack!

[mrazntre]

i bet the lil niggie deserved it

[Arex]

[quote:878bae5878="mrazntre"]i bet the lil niggie deserved it[/quote:878bae5878]

...?

Even if the kid did something to spite the cops, I don't think anything justifies the cop striking him when he's in handcuffs and being pinned down to the car.

Because cops are granted the authority to do certain things (e.g. detain people, pat people down, etc.), I think it's imperative that they're held to a higher standard when it comes to incidents like this. Remember, they're law enforcement officers...



Alex

[mrazntre]

i'm not saying what the cops did was right, but i'm sure he deserved it for some reason or another.

[achtungbaby]

[quote:d12fd514b6="mrazntre"]i'm not saying what the cops did was right, but i'm sure he deserved it for some reason or another.[/quote:d12fd514b6]

What makes you say that? Do you think cops usually have a good reason for kicking ass?

[mrazntre]

yes.

we've all seen the videotape of what happened, yet we don't know exactly what actually conspired before the tape was rolling. One of the things i've heard was that the 16 yr old was grabbing nuts. i don't care what anyone says about being in handcuffs and being restrained, i've been handcuffed and you still have a lot of movement in your arms and wrists. and even though his body was restrained, that doesn't mean that his wrists were restrained. if you look closely, the officer/pig's body was pressed against the 16yr old's rear. obviously his hands were behind his back, in perfect position to grab em. Now if the whole nut grabbing thing was true, i would see why the pig would sock his ass. (same scenario when the cop threw him down onto the trunk of the squad car). there's a point when your nuts are more important than anything else, regardless of the situation. i am not a cop lover by any stretch of the imagination, but let's try to look at the videotape objectively.

[achtungbaby]

[quote:1eface44b1="mrazntre"]i don't care what anyone says about being in handcuffs and being restrained, i've been handcuffed and you still have a lot of movement in your arms and wrists. and even though his body was restrained, that doesn't mean that his wrists were restrained. if you look closely, the officer/pig's body was pressed against the 16yr old's rear. obviously his hands were behind his back, in perfect position to grab em. Now if the whole nut grabbing thing was true, i would see why the pig would sock his ass. (same scenario when the cop threw him down onto the trunk of the squad car). there's a point when your nuts are more important than anything else, regardless of the situation. i am not a cop lover by any stretch of the imagination, but let's try to look at the videotape objectively.[/quote:1eface44b1]

Even if the guy grabbed his nuts -- he's a 16 year old kid who got punched in the face by an adult cop. For the cop to retaliate in that way is just wrong, and I don't think you can simplify it by just saying, "If it happened to me, I would do this..." because cops are usually thugs trained to stomp ass, so even one on one, it's rarely an equal situation, but worse, cops always stomp ass in numbers. Maybe if the cop was by himself and felt the need to defend himself, but that wuss was surrounded by his buddies.

I've been handcuffed before too, and kung-fu magic aside, you can kick someone's ass very badly when they've got their hands tied behind their back. Residents of the Rampart/Wilshire district can definitely attest to this, having been terrorized in the mid to late 90s by the Rampart Crash team.

I don't like cops, I don't really dislike them. I respect that they have a job to do that I would not do, and many of them die for it. That said, that doesn't make "revenge" (for having your balls squeezed) acceptable. Besides, if the officer's conduct was warranted, he wouldn't have been pulled away or pushed away like he was after he slugged him.

[mrazntre]

Simplify? How else would you put it? Would you be able to maintain your composure? Cops are not super people who are impervious to pain, lapses in judgement, human impulses and defensive reflex actions. So you would let him pop ur nuts? That's a cloudy situation, can you quickly process the proper action to take? Cops lose their heads at times. It happens.

Let's not limit this to "16 yr old kid," mebbe we should clarify this point. 16 yr old in the traditional sense seems to juvenilize the situation (you're not that naive are you? 16yr old kids are innocent?). We all must be reminded that 16 yr olds are not children by any stretch of the imagination. 16 yr olds are capable of strong arm robbery, home invasion, murder, vandalism, terrorism..... the list goes on. I think that you are trying to liken the 16 yr old to a frail 5 yr old who does no wrong due to the innocence that is their reality. I've known hardened criminals at the age of 14 and younger. 16 is definitely not the age of innocence as probably most all of you can attest.

My point was not whether or not the action taken by the cop was appropriate behavior for a cop, however I do believe that if his statement was true about his nutz getting grabbed, his actions were warranted. Warranted, yes. Right or wrong? I don't give a fuck to tell you the truth. I think that the kid probably deserved it.

Concerning the whole restraining thing...
The other officer's may have not known exactly what was going on to begin with, which resulted to him being pushd away. It's what they call protection. Cops look out for one another. If they weren't in plain sight, do you really think the other cops would have stepped in? I really don't think so.

I've been handcuffed before too, and kung-fu magic aside, you can kick someone's ass very badly when they've got their hands tied behind their back.[/quote:e994f1463b]

Yeah, and he did get his ass whooped, but that doesn't address whether or not you can grab someone's nuts (while handcuffed) that are pressed right up against your palm.

Cops have big ass chips on their shoulders, but it is odd for this particular cop to just have acted without being provoked.

Let me repeat my stance. I don't care if the cop was right or wrong. However, I do believe the kid deserved it for some reason or another.

[SunWuKong]

[quote:c67c1f00b9="mrazntre"]Simplify? How else would you put it? Would you be able to maintain your composure? Cops are not super people who are impervious to pain, lapses in judgement, human impulses and defensive reflex actions. So you would let him pop ur nuts? That's a cloudy situation, can you quickly process the proper action to take? Cops lose their heads at times. It happens.
[/quote:c67c1f00b9]


the whole point is that they have responsibilities above and beyond that of the ordinary citizens. they are not humanly impervious to lapses in judgement, but the person who need to be held accountable for his/her lapses in judgement is the person himself. that is how the justice system works. cops need to be reprimanded for their lapses of judgement just the same, and especially while they're on duty. remember that they are not accountable to the same court of law that ordinary citizens are accountable for if they do something wrong while on duty and in the name of protecting the peace. we've got to be especially critical of how responsible our police force is.

[achtungbaby]

[quote:f9709aa508="mrazntre"]We all must be reminded that 16 yr olds are not children by any stretch of the imagination. 16 yr olds are capable of strong arm robbery, home invasion, murder, vandalism, terrorism...[/quote:f9709aa508]

Oh come on. You're arguing semantics now. Of course 16 year old kids are capable of horror. So are 5 year olds. Point: compare the 16 year old kid to the cop who was punching him.

[quote:f9709aa508="mrazntre"]My point was not whether or not the action taken by the cop was appropriate behavior for a cop, however I do believe that if his statement was true about his nutz getting grabbed...I think that the kid probably deserved it.[/quote:f9709aa508]

Would you feel the same way if the kid was Asian?

[mrazntre]

[quote:0a1e976d2f]Would you feel the same way if the kid was Asian?[/quote:0a1e976d2f]

It could've been a black cop, an asian cop, whatever. It could've been an asian kid, white kid, hispanic kid. What does that have to do with anything? If it's a punk ass and the kid deserved it, then i think he deserved it regardless of his race. I don't think there's any point in racializing this situation anymore than it already has been by the media.

[quote:0a1e976d2f]Point: compare the 16 year old kid to the cop who was punching him.[/quote:0a1e976d2f]

okay, point taken. now what if the kid was as big as the cop? Or what if the kid was an adult? so in which case semantics does matter. Size does matter! So are you arguing semantics now?

[achtungbaby]

[quote:7450812117="mrazntre"]What does that have to do with anything? If it's a punk ass and the kid deserved it, then i think he deserved it regardless of his race. I don't think there's any point in racializing this situation anymore than it already has been by the media.[/quote:7450812117]

I only asked because you seemed a little quick to presume guilt based on what you didn't see, and just wondered if it was a knee-jerk reaction.

[quote:7450812117="mrazntre"]so in which case semantics does matter. Size does matter! So are you arguing semantics now?[/quote:7450812117]

No, not at all! I was just saying there isn't any point in bringing up the realm of possibilities (what if he was a 16 year old kid who was a mass murderer, what if he wasn't a kid but was an adult who was twice the cop's size, etc.,; "semantics") -- because these are known facts:
[list:7450812117]
[*:7450812117]he's smaller than any of the number of cops handling him;
[*:7450812117]he's handcuffed;
[*:7450812117]he's a minor;
[*:7450812117]he's black and the cops are not;
[*:7450812117]he's slammed against the car and punched in the face.[/list:u:7450812117]

[SunWuKong]

[quote:600075c041="mrazntre"]It could've been a black cop, an asian cop, whatever. It could've been an asian kid, white kid, hispanic kid. What does that have to do with anything? If it's a punk ass and the kid deserved it, then i think he deserved it regardless of his race. I don't think there's any point in racializing this situation anymore than it already has been by the media.
[/quote:600075c041]


i guess that's the point here isn't it? i personally don't think he deserved it. the only way he would have [i:600075c041]deserved[/i:600075c041] to be punched in the face is if it was necessary to restrain him. but wait! he was already restrained!

[mrazntre]

racializing?

my point was not to racialize this particular situation. I'm moreso age-ilizing the situation. I think teenagers are punk asses and he probably did or said something to provoke the cop into punking him. (btw, i don't want to keep on rewriting my argument, so please read the above posts for further info). Reread the nut grabbing deal.

I need to know whether or not he was putting up any sort of fight before the video was shot. That's still a grey area and it's quite an area, but I'm not just going to base my decision on the videotape alone because it did not capture all that had transpired during the cop stop.

So if you don't think he deserved, whatever, I still think he did.

We'll see what happens.

[Arex]

What transpired before the tape started rolling, for the purpose of determining whether the cop was warranted in socking the kid in the face, is irrelevant. That's like saying Rodney King deserved his ass whooping 'cause he took the police on a high speed pursuit in his low speed Hyundai (hey, where's IPakI??). Even if the kid had killed someone and the cop had seen him do it before his very eyes, when the cop punched the kid, he was already restrained and going to jail. This is not Judge Dredd we're talking about here. The cops are supposed to enforce the law and bring people into custody, not dole out the people's retribution. That's up to the courts and a jury of his peers. So, yes, obviously the kid did something wrong to be taken into custody (hopefully it wasn't just DWB) but that doesn't warrant that kind of police officer behavior. Otherwise he's being punished twice by the criminal justice system: preliminary ass-beating at the hands of the cops, then jail time or fines for whatever he did to cause his arrest.

I'll agree with you on the nut grab thing. If the kid'd had my nuts in a vice grip, I probably react violently as well. Unfortunately, all we have are the cop's words against the tape. From the tape, it looks to me like the cop was standing to the side of the kid, with his balls out of harms way. Also, my first reaction, had my nuts been violated, would probably rather be to get myself out of the way rather than calmly line up a good punch. Obviously the DA isn't buying his story though.

Alex

[mrazntre]

i'm not too sure that was that great of a punch....

alex i can't really disagree with you on what you said. Except, how things are supposed to work and how things actually do work -- in the criminal justice system -- is like day and night. Even if you're lucky enough to have the system work for you, 'the wheels of justice grind ever so slowly.'

Hyundai's are great and affordable cars. They have great warranties and are made out of chrome.