The 'Other' Within

[thaite]

The 'Other' Within

By Peggy Orenstein
from the LA Times

BERKELEY -- A week ago, I stopped by my local bookstore to pick up the novel of the moment, "The Sisterhood of the Traveling Pants." If you don't run in "tween" girl circles, you might not have felt the heat of this book, which is in its 15th printing and has been optioned by Warner Bros. Having written extensively on adolescent girls myself, I was itching to get hold of it. I knew that the plot centered on four girls who separate for the summer. Each is challenged by a character-building obstacle that she overcomes with the help of a pair of magical, universally flattering jeans that represent the quartet's friendship. It all sounded very empowering, very Ya-Ya.

Imagine my surprise, then, upon reading the first two paragraphs, which breezily compare the dungarees to a beloved dog that one would give away if one were moving to someplace like Korea, where people eat dogs.

Here was a book selling sisterhood -- it's in the title, for heaven's sake -- reducing an entire group of girls to an ugly cultural stereotype, making them sound like savages just for a laugh. I couldn't imagine the author getting away with a similar crack about cheap Jews or African cannibals.

To be honest, at another time in my life I might not have noticed. But these days, such casual insensitivity hits me right in the belly. That's because, if all goes well, I'll give birth to a baby girl this summer, a child who will be "half" Asian.

Read more (http://www.latimes.com/la-op-orenstein2mar02,0,4561951.story)


Well, I see that she's starting to understand the difficulty and issuse that could possibly lie before her, but judging from some her phrases and choice of words, she's still not getting it.

Are hapa issues the same as Asian issues? How do you explain to a parent that dog-eating or 'turning Japanese' comments might be cute within the family unit, or at least to her, but could likely make her child uncomfortable?

At what age does a child start realize their racial difference -- different from their parents and different from their peers? What kinds of intentional or unintentional comments or behavior might turn a hapa child toward or away from embracing a particular aspect of their racial identity?

and this line particularly interests me:
What would I do if my little girl came home crying because some Shaq-worshipping kid on the playground -- as a joke -- pulled up his eyes at her and chanted, "Ching-chong Chinaman?"

"You still don't get it," my husband, Steven, said. "The thing is, she wouldn't tell you. She'd just absorb it and it would eat away a little piece her soul."

Do you think that's particularly true? When people taunted you for one side of your race, did you seek aid from the parent of the same or opposite race, or even at all?

"As a joke" ? Shoot, sometimes it's not a joke.

[BeTheReds]

I think that it is something that simply most parents cannot understand at all. No matter who you go to. This lady is gonna have a half asian kid and gets offended by korean dog eater comments. I think she doesnt get it still. Because she sounds like she is trying to wear a pair of asian pants. To help her daughter out.

Lord knows that there are white looking hapa, and that there are obviously many different issues that we have that are seperate from Asian-American issues.

Sometimes we have issues with Asian Americans more than with whites. (As is my case).

She is not prepared for what she is gonna have to face, but then what parent is?

[Hiroshi2]

I've found that for me personally I share some issues/experiences with blacks but they don't share all of mine with me.

My issues/experiences are the same as with other asians, but they don't share all of mine with me.

Only other hapas (maybe even go so specific as to say black/asian mixes, tho there's a LOT in common I have with white/asian hapas as well) really can share my experiences completely (as far as race and culture is concerned, of course.)

[chris_lewis108]

ooops sorry for resposting this article in another forum

[SunWuKong]

i think the author of the article was talking more about discrimination/ignorance towards asians. the point of the article wasn't about the discrimination you'd face for being mixed.
anyway, i think that was a good article. i mean, most people, regardless of race, is against discrimination, but unless you're a visible minority, you're not likely to face it, so you wouldn't have a personal understanding of it. but it sounded to me that she was starting to take it personally because of her soon-to-be-born child. whether that's "trying to wear asian pants" or not, i don't think that matters.

[kimpossible]

Hmm. I'm of two mindsets.

The first is complimentary. At least she is trying to put herself in the place of her children regarding racial stereotyping they will face. That's more than my dad ever did.

The second is dismissive. I think she's a bit caught up in the 'excitement' of having a mixed race child, as if she's carrying the Asian identity in her. True, she's carrying some Asian DNA in her right now but she's getting a goofy idea of what her children's ethnic identity or heritage means... not sure I have the words to describe this at the moment.

In a way I'm in a similar situation. Or when I breed I'll be in a similar situation. My children will be much more Asian than I am. I have a pretty good idea of what they'll face and how to best prepare them to live mixed race but still it won't be the same. On top of that, I won't be stressing about some adolescent book in English. I plan on torturing them with Chinese school, extra tutoring, music lessons, ballet or martial art lessons (depending on gender. yes, I know how bad that is). But beyond that, bottom line, my husband and I decided a long time ago that we'll have to do what it takes to raise our kids for a duration in either in Taiwan or Shanghai. You can't give them a couple books or movies to 'learn' how to be Asian.

[BeTheReds]

I remember i met this white guy here who was married to a japanese chick and she was preganant. He was like. "I am conducting my own biological experiment."

I told him that I was not a biological experiment, and I hope for your child's sake that you never say anything of the sort to him. I fin it to be disrespectful to his wife and also his child. And me.

But everyone else in the room, mostly white and aa were like, what's Eugene's problem?

[SunWuKong]

i wish noriko would come back to YW. both her parents are mixed. i think she can offer a unique perspective.
hey noriko! i know you're reading this...

[YuheiCarreau]

I find the article to be shortsighted in a number of ways. Firstly, Orenstein only discusses how her child might interact with (what are implied as) White, American playmates, not AAs or other non-Whites. Secondly, she seems to lump the child in with his father (both of them being 'other' to her White self) rather than to think a biracial child would be 'other' to both of them. Thirdly, she's getting passionate about AA issues but only barely touches on the fact that she is a non-Asian married to an AA; this despite the fact that the popular argument is that outmarriage is a result of a number of the issues she does bring up.

Although not everyone here shares my view, it is my opinion that mixed race people need to create a cultural identity that exists separate from their parents' rather than spend their time trying to fit into one culture or the other. Orenstein looks at the issue from the perspective of, well, a White person; anyone that's not in the majority must be in the same minority. Her child will have a number of different experiences from his father, and her husband will not always be able to explain how their child is interpreting his experiences (not that I think his comments aren't insightful). The "Where are you from... Where are your parents from?" and "Do you know kung fu?" questions for her husband can become "Did anyone ever tell you you have Chinky eyes?" or "That's your mom? Are you adopted?" or "But, does he like beat you guys? I hear Asian men are really scary to their wives and kids" for her child.

Overall I'd say she comes across as more of a worried soon-to-be parent than someone who's really thought the issue through.

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by YuheiCarreau@Mar 5 2003, 02:32 AM
I find the article to be shortsighted in a number of ways. Firstly, Orenstein only discusses how her child might interact with (what are implied as) White, American playmates, not AAs or other non-Whites. Secondly, she seems to lump the child in with his father (both of them being 'other' to her White self) rather than to think a biracial child would be 'other' to both of them. Thirdly, she's getting passionate about AA issues but only barely touches on the fact that she is a non-Asian married to an AA; this despite the fact that the popular argument is that outmarriage is a result of a number of the issues she does bring up.

Although not everyone here shares my view, it is my opinion that mixed race people need to create a cultural identity that exists separate from their parents' rather than spend their time trying to fit into one culture or the other. Orenstein looks at the issue from the perspective of, well, a White person; anyone that's not in the majority must be in the same minority. Her child will have a number of different experiences from his father, and her husband will not always be able to explain how their child is interpreting his experiences (not that I think his comments aren't insightful). The "Where are you from... Where are your parents from?" and "Do you know kung fu?" questions for her husband can become "Did anyone ever tell you you have Chinky eyes?" or "That's your mom? Are you adopted?" or "But, does he like beat you guys? I hear Asian men are really scary to their wives and kids" for her child.

Overall I'd say she comes across as more of a worried soon-to-be parent than someone who's really thought the issue through.
well, true.
but really, i think she's just using her child as a personal "in" to raise the issues she was raising, which was really just discrimination/ignorance towards asian people. i don't think she ever intended to write about mixed people or interracial relationships in her article.

[chris_lewis108]

Originally posted by BeTheReds@Mar 4 2003, 08:18 PM
I remember i met this white guy here who was married to a japanese chick and she was preganant. He was like. "I am conducting my own biological experiment."

I told him that I was not a biological experiment, and I hope for your child's sake that you never say anything of the sort to him. I fin it to be disrespectful to his wife and also his child. And me.

But everyone else in the room, mostly white and aa were like, what's Eugene's problem?
well if i saw it i would have been all over the guy, but it must have been awhile ago, im just a newbie here afterall

[YuheiCarreau]

Originally posted by SunWuKung@Mar 5 2003, 02:10 AM
well, true.
but really, i think she's just using her child as a personal "in" to raise the issues she was raising, which was really just discrimination/ignorance towards asian people. i don't think she ever intended to write about mixed people or interracial relationships in her article.
Yeah, and that's one of the problems I have with the article - supposedly it's about her biracial child, but it fails to differentiate between issues affecting Asian American people and those that affect mixed people.

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by YuheiCarreau@Mar 5 2003, 01:24 PM
Originally posted by SunWuKung@Mar 5 2003, 02:10 AM
well, true.
but really, i think she's just using her child as a personal "in" to raise the issues she was raising, which was really just discrimination/ignorance towards asian people.  i don't think she ever intended to write about mixed people or interracial relationships in her article.
Yeah, and that's one of the problems I have with the article - supposedly it's about her biracial child, but it fails to differentiate between issues affecting Asian American people and those that affect mixed people.
err... i didn't get that the article was about her biracial child. it was just something she put in to explain her position on discrimination against asians, in my opinion.

[BeTheReds]

Originally posted by chris_lewis108@Mar 5 2003, 08:29 AM
Originally posted by BeTheReds@Mar 4 2003, 08:18 PM
I remember i met this white guy here who was married to a japanese chick and she was preganant.  He was like.  "I am conducting my own biological experiment."

I told him that I was not a biological experiment, and I hope for your child's sake that you never say anything of the sort to him.  I fin it to be disrespectful to his wife and also his child.  And me.

But everyone else in the room, mostly white and aa were like, what's Eugene's problem?
well if i saw it i would have been all over the guy, but it must have been awhile ago, im just a newbie here afterall
no no, not on YW "here" meant Japan...

[YuheiCarreau]

Originally posted by SunWuKung@Mar 5 2003, 03:44 PM
err... i didn't get that the article was about her biracial child. it was just something she put in to explain her position on discrimination against asians, in my opinion.
Well it is called "the other within", not "My big fat Asian American wedding" or somethin'. Plus she brings up her unborn child a hell of a lot.

[kimpossible]

It's just weird to read. It's like she's excited that she gets to feel like she has to battle racism against Asians personally when it's not really her who has to deal with any of it. Nor does she have any concept about the issues that a mixed race Asian would deal with around full Asians.

Dunno. Maybe I'm just too cynical and have read or heard too many 'ooh I want cute little mixed Asian babies - they're just like adorable puppies!' comments. Ran into a few people over the years that think just because their kid is part Asian that automatically makes them culturally and ethnically Asian.

Oh well. Her problem. Not mine.

[Fireblade]

Originally posted by YuheiCarreau@Mar 4 2003, 11:32 PM
I find the article to be shortsighted in a number of ways. Firstly, Orenstein only discusses how her child might interact with (what are implied as) White, American playmates, not AAs or other non-Whites. Secondly, she seems to lump the child in with his father (both of them being 'other' to her White self) rather than to think a biracial child would be 'other' to both of them. Thirdly, she's getting passionate about AA issues but only barely touches on the fact that she is a non-Asian married to an AA; this despite the fact that the popular argument is that outmarriage is a result of a number of the issues she does bring up.

Although not everyone here shares my view, it is my opinion that mixed race people need to create a cultural identity that exists separate from their parents' rather than spend their time trying to fit into one culture or the other. Orenstein looks at the issue from the perspective of, well, a White person; anyone that's not in the majority must be in the same minority. Her child will have a number of different experiences from his father, and her husband will not always be able to explain how their child is interpreting his experiences (not that I think his comments aren't insightful). The "Where are you from... Where are your parents from?" and "Do you know kung fu?" questions for her husband can become "Did anyone ever tell you you have Chinky eyes?" or "That's your mom? Are you adopted?" or "But, does he like beat you guys? I hear Asian men are really scary to their wives and kids" for her child.

Overall I'd say she comes across as more of a worried soon-to-be parent than someone who's really thought the issue through.
Ok, I'm not Hapa, but I do believe that a child deserves to find out family traditions/culture from both parents. It's really learning how to balance it out. Not teaching them or allowing them to see where you, as a parent is coming from makes it harder for them to identify themselves.

Who cares about cultural identity, when so many of us have trouble identifying ourselves?

But like I said before, I'm no Hapa, so I have no right to say so...