Chivalry: Is it alive or dead?

[Asian_American_Sansei]

Is chivalry alive or dead? Should it be dead? Should I as a man offer a seat to a woman if I were to sit on a bus, even an old lady or open a door for a woman whose hands are filled with shopping bags? No man should open up a door, hold the elevator open or anything of that nature. Why? Because it's the 21 century. I want to hear your opinion and I will finish this thread with my reasons, OK?

[Asian_American_Sansei]

Is chivalry alive or dead? Should it be dead? Should I as a man offer a seat to a woman if I were to sit on a bus, even an old lady or open a door for a woman whose hands are filled with shopping bags? No man should open up a door, hold the elevator open or anything of that nature. Why? Because it's the 21 century. I want to hear your opinion and I will finish this thread with my reasons, OK?

[Napoleon Chynamite]

I usually open doors and do small favors for everyone guy or girl male or female, but if she's xtra hot I'll be more inclined to help her out.

[angelwiththesword]

it's nice to be a gentleman, and hold doors open and other such things.
at the same time, it isn't wrong for a woman to hold the door open for a man either.

IMO, i think the entire world should go back to the time of feudal lords, and the complete and utter lack of distance weapons, ie: guns. bows and arrow okay, since they require much skill to weild proporly.
swords, knives, staves, spears, etc.

swords gooood, guns baaaaad.
beer gooooood, napster baad.

[Hiroshi2]

Well, generally I try to be courteous to most females- except the bitchy ones of course

Ah, I'm in a crappy mood, having to put up with a bitchy girl today. That, plus its Monday.

So to answer your question, chivalry is still alive- but not to the extent that it used to be, I guess. But maybe it really doesn't need to be. Depends, I guess.

[DaKine]

Originally posted by Asian_American_Sansei@Mar 3 2003, 05:50 PM
Is chivalry alive or dead? Should it be dead? Should I as a man offer a seat to a woman if I were to sit on a bus, even an old lady or open a door for a woman whose hands are filled with shopping bags?
Yes. No. Yes.

Chivalry is either within you, or not. The way I see, it depend on how you were brought up, you know the words that your parents had embedded in you while growing up (treat others the way you want to be treated in return), and how you actually implement those words. It's all about karma. What goes around comes around.

[BeTheReds]

I do it all the time. Pull out the chair, open the door, hold the heavy handbag, etc... IF it's a girl I am with, I feel comfortable doing it.

If I am on the train tho, that's different. I only give up my seat for cripples, and the elderly. Young people can stand, so they don't need my seat.

[AliBabaIncorporated]

uh, regardless of whether you think chivalry "should" not exist by whatever philosophical standards are popular among a certain intellectual elite and rationalized as a "modern way of thinking", at some point you run into the real world which doesn't fit "should."

most guys will take frozenpizza's approach: as long as it remains even a minutely successful way of picking up on girls, guys are gonna keep doing it. and normal girls have no real motivation to refuse unless the guy makes it obvious he is trying to pick up on her and seems very sketchy.

[Azn Retribution]

how is napster bad? anyone believing file-sharing is bad or has that big of a effect are mindless sheep.

hmm and as for chivalry.. its on lifesupport IMHO

people are such assholes these days.. world is going to helll decline of western civilization and our morals and all that.. its the 1920s all over again.. blah blah blah negativity pessimism. etc

[angelwiththesword]

Originally posted by Azn Retribution@Mar 3 2003, 06:15 PM
how is napster bad? anyone believing file-sharing is bad or has that big of a effect are mindless sheep.

i was merely quoting a flash animation that came out a few years back during the controversy over Lars Ulrich getting his panties in a bunch over the potentional thousands of dollars they were losing in profits (out of the potential millions per year) and stuff.

actually, i am trying to find the link to that movie right now. i will get back to you on it, or pm you the URL or something. it was funny.

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by Asian_American_Sansei@Mar 3 2003, 08:50 PM
Is chivalry alive or dead? Should it be dead? Should I as a man offer a seat to a woman if I were to sit on a bus, even an old lady or open a door for a woman whose hands are filled with shopping bags? No man should open up a door, hold the elevator open or anything of that nature. Why? Because it's the 21 century. I want to hear your opinion and I will finish this thread with my reasons, OK?
i do all that because my momma taught me to do it.

[specialK]

Well, generally I try to be courteous to most females- except the bitchy ones of course

i'm the same, but I feel that it's dead due to lack of interest on the part of females... it's a two-way street you know. :rolleyes:

[amietron]

I like my doors opened for me and my bags carried for me. I like courteous guys. Gentlemen. Sometimes it depends, though.

[ism]

Originally posted by Asian_American_Sansei@Mar 3 2003, 08:50 PM
Is chivalry alive or dead? Should it be dead? Should I as a man offer a seat to a woman if I were to sit on a bus, even an old lady or open a door for a woman whose hands are filled with shopping bags? No man should open up a door, hold the elevator open or anything of that nature. Why? Because it's the 21 century. I want to hear your opinion and I will finish this thread with my reasons, OK?
I don't understand the question. Are you talking about chivalry as gender-based politeness, or politeness as a whole?

[kimpossible]

I hold doors open for people regardless of gender. I give up my seat to old people on the bus or anywhere else. It's called courtesy.

[kimpossible]

why is this in two forums?

[Asian_American_Sansei]

Originally posted by ism@Mar 3 2003, 08:01 PM
I don't understand the question.  Are you talking about chivalry as gender-based politeness, or politeness as a whole?
Keep it coming. I'll be checking up on this thread and I'll type my comments why I do not.

[tapestrybabe]

Originally posted by SunWuKung@Mar 3 2003, 09:28 PM
i do all that because my momma taught me to do it.
yeah,
thanks for offering to carry my duffle bag...
on one hand, i found it to be very gentlemanly for you to do such a thing... it made me feel good...
but than on the other hand i felt kinda WEIRD... like i AM able to carry my own bag... but whateverz... thanks for carrying my duffle bag :)

[kasia]

merging with the chivalry thread in the men's forum.


but my 2 cents: everyone should hold open doors people when possible. i also like it when my server - regardless of gender - pulls my seat out and pushes it in for me for me. i also think that those on the receiving end should always remember to say 'please' and 'thank you'.

but...with regards to only guys. maybe i'm not keeping up with the times. i still expect guys to carry heavy bags for me - or whatever bags i am holding. most guys i know offer as though it is second nature to do so. for those that don't, i conclude that they are clueless. perhaps i shouldn't. i also expect guys to walk me to my car at night. all in all, i don't think that these are things that guys should do - but i like it and have grown to expect it.

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by tapestrybabe@Mar 4 2003, 12:44 AM
Originally posted by SunWuKung@Mar 3 2003, 09:28 PM
i do all that because my momma taught me to do it.
yeah,
thanks for offering to carry my duffle bag...
on one hand, i found it to be very gentlemanly for you to do such a thing... it made me feel good...
but than on the other hand i felt kinda WEIRD... like i AM able to carry my own bag... but whateverz... thanks for carrying my duffle bag :)
you're welcome. :)

[applehead]

you carried her duffle bag?
yeah, rad's a real gentleman.
RIGHT.

i don't feel comfortable when guys do that.
i don't like people making a fuss over me.
although, i tend to make a fuss over other people...
but it's weird when they try not to too.
ugh.
meena, can't you ever make up your mind??

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by applehead@Mar 4 2003, 01:53 AM
you carried her duffle bag?
yeah, rad's a real gentleman.
RIGHT.

i don't feel comfortable when guys do that.
i don't like people making a fuss over me.
although, i tend to make a fuss over other people...
but it's weird when they try not to too.
ugh.
meena, can't you ever make up your mind??
i know exactly what you want, little yuja. ;)

[deez nuts]

Originally posted by applehead@Mar 4 2003, 01:53 AM


i don't feel comfortable when guys do that.
i don't like people making a fuss over me.
although, i tend to make a fuss over other people...
but it's weird when they try not to too.
ugh.
meena, can't you ever make up your mind??
Hahahaahahahahaha. No wonder you forget stuff. You have like World War III going on in that head of yours.

**Lick**

[teaz0r]

if my dog was sick. and had like maggots up it's asshole.
and the guy volunteers to dig his fingers in to remove every
last one. then yeah i like chivalry.

[amietron]

i open doors. :)

[kasia]

ugh. i dropped my water bottle today and this dorky asian guy walked right past me without bothering to pick it up. only dorks have this flaw. social rejects. :pissed:

[amietron]

Originally posted by kasia@Mar 4 2003, 01:30 PM
ugh. i dropped my water bottle today and this dorky asian guy walked right past me without bothering to pick it up. only dorks have this flaw. social rejects. :pissed:
he's socially unaware. you should educate him, kasie.

[kasia]

Originally posted by amietron@Mar 4 2003, 01:35 PM
he's socially unaware. you should educate him, kasie.
that's his mom's job.

[Adaon]

Bah, sounds like it's more manners than chivalry really......what's the difference, any one care to take a shot?

[kasia]

Originally posted by Adaon@Mar 4 2003, 01:39 PM
Bah, sounds like it's more manners than chivalry really......what's the difference, any one care to take a shot?
well...i don't really offer to carry bags for guys - unless they're elderly men. i also don't like it when a guy walks in front of me, though i let this go most of the time. i still think it's rude. i like it when a guy opens my car door for me. etc. etc.

[moschikat]

hmm. chivalry is not dead . . . . boys are usually nice . . . . i try to be nice (usually), i don't think it matters if it is getting up on various forms of public transport for older people, pregnant people, little people . . .

sometimes they don't thank you - and then that kind of bothers me . . . but oh well! ce'st la vie! :rolleyes:

[teaz0r]

Originally posted by moschikat@Mar 5 2003, 05:08 AM
hmm. chivalry is not dead . . . . boys are usually nice . . . . i try to be nice (usually), i don't think it matters if it is getting up on various forms of public transport for older people, pregnant people, little people . . .

sometimes they don't thank you - and then that kind of bothers me . . . but oh well! ce'st la vie! :rolleyes:
*smooch* i love you.

i like being around moschikat when there are boys.
they're always so much more nicer, much more polite.
yeah. moschikat gives out that chivalry-is-not-dead vibe.

[kangal]

i don't think its dead....but i think its less wanted by certain girls...especially like first-date stuff....like paying for stuff and etc....i think though, that there is also less female reciprocation....i really like it when i open a door and let the girl in, that she reaches over to unlock my door...i think thats always a great sign of a great girl

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by kasia@Mar 4 2003, 04:44 PM
well...i don't really offer to carry bags for guys - unless they're elderly men. i also don't like it when a guy walks in front of me, though i let this go most of the time. i still think it's rude. i like it when a guy opens my car door for me. etc. etc.
i open doors, carry stuff, etc, for girls (disclaimer: not because i think they can't do it themselves, but just so they don't have to do it themselves), but i think opening car doors feel kind of awkward.

[Hiroshi2]

Originally posted by kasia@Mar 4 2003, 03:30 PM
ugh. i dropped my water bottle today and this dorky asian guy walked right past me without bothering to pick it up. only dorks have this flaw. social rejects. :pissed:
Well, sometimes people are off in their own world. It's not like you dropped it several times and he didn't pick it up, right?

Cause that same thing happened to me the other day, a girl dropped her pencil, it was right by me, and she was like, "why didn't you pick it up?". And I was like, "Oh, I didn't notice it." I was daydreaming.

;) *shrugs*

I do think that guys should walk girls to their cars at night and that type of thing, though. Cause it's pretty much fact that in quite a few cases, assilants who would normally pick out females to rob, rape, etc. change their minds if they see a guy with her.

[Asian_American_Sansei]

Well, here's why I believe chivalry should be dead. Because it's too confusing to choose. I used to be a member of APSU (Asian and Pacific Islander Student Union) and during the 60s to the early 90s, one of the topics as well as an agenda to fight for was the battle against the proverbial glass ceiling women and especially women of color face. Minus civil servant jobs, there were a lot of women who could not attain the CE-level of major corporations. Regardless of the educational background, there is this glass-ceiling that kept them down. One such excuse is: Why should a woman attain the higher places when she bears a baby, why should she be allowed to take time off to raise the child? Should not the woman stay with the child and raise him or her? Why should her job be saved because she was having a bay? Having a baby is a lifestyle change, it was the choice between the husband and wife; not the corporation. Then why should a job be left on hold so that work would be saved for her? After years of struggle, the woman's job in the private sector was saved. Also, a husband can take time off too so that he can raise the child. My friend did that. But unfortunately, a one-person income does not help much. Another problem was; Men never have PMS, so when a woman gripes, the corporate leaders thought that the job comes first and your own pain is secondary. Why should a woman take time off because she is cramping? There are female police officers who chase criminals and run, even during a painful PMS. Ever seen a PMS cop? I have and I feel for the criminals...LOL. But with civil rights and lawsuits, women had their ways. Women (albeit quite slowly and not in too many sectors) are comparable to men. So with the NOW, BITCH magazine, etc., as well as all the women's rights organization as well as political leaders giving women the rights they deserve, why should I as a man, open a door, offer my seat or do anything that's construed as sexist? In some cases, and in corporate arenas, which I work in, I can get in trouble for sexual harassment. Yes, sexual harassment for degrading a woman. So should I be the gentleman I was taught to be or like I said on the first thread, do what's correct for the 21st century? I want women to answer too. P.S., I am not calling a man who opens the door or offers a seat weak, you're doing what was expected back in the early 19th and 20th century. Am I wrong? to worry about my future? Or is it just part and parcel of what's expected of the women's movement? I want to hear the women's side.

[tapestrybabe]

Originally posted by Asian_American_Sansei@Mar 4 2003, 07:54 PM
Men never have PMS
hehe...
http://www.wral.com/health/1594017/detail.html

[specialK]

i really like it when i open a door and let the girl in, that she reaches over to unlock my door...i think thats always a great sign of a great girl

yes! that is the best! a girl can score major points for that. but then again, i don't know what those points are good for since she's already with me in my car. :lol:

[Napoleon Chynamite]

Originally posted by kangal@Mar 4 2003, 02:15 PM
i don't think its dead....but i think its less wanted by certain girls...especially like first-date stuff....like paying for stuff and etc....i think though, that there is also less female reciprocation....i really like it when i open a door and let the girl in, that she reaches over to unlock my door...i think thats always a great sign of a great girl
especially when unless she unlocks it, you can't get into the car :)

Another sign of a keeper is when I show her my thumb trick and she doesn't slap me upside the head and storm out of the cafeteria...that's always a good sign

[Hiroshi2]

Originally posted by tapestrybabe@Mar 4 2003, 07:46 PM
hehe...
http://www.wral.com/health/1594017/detail.html
Yep, turns out men can have PMS, menopause, breast cancer, and probably some other stuff typically only thought of as being feminine issues. I know that's gotta be embarassing, not exactly something you share with the guys over a cold one, eh?

[specialK]

especially when unless she unlocks it, you can't get into the car

oops, i just assumed he said open the door. THAT's cool.

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by Asian_American_Sansei@Mar 4 2003, 07:54 PM
Well, here's why I believe chivalry should be dead. Because it's too confusing to choose. I used to be a member of APSU (Asian and Pacific Islander Student Union) and during the 60s to the early 90s, one of the topics as well as an agenda to fight for was the battle against the proverbial glass ceiling women and especially women of color face. Minus civil servant jobs, there were a lot of women who could not attain the CE-level of major corporations. Regardless of the educational background, there is this glass-ceiling that kept them down. One such excuse is: Why should a woman attain the higher places when she bears a baby, why should she be allowed to take time off to raise the child? Should not the woman stay with the child and raise him or her? Why should her job be saved because she was having a bay? Having a baby is a lifestyle change, it was the choice between the husband and wife; not the corporation. Then why should a job be left on hold so that work would be saved for her? After years of struggle, the woman's job in the private sector was saved. Also, a husband can take time off too so that he can raise the child. My friend did that. But unfortunately, a one-person income does not help much. Another problem was; Men never have PMS, so when a woman gripes, the corporate leaders thought that the job comes first and your own pain is secondary. Why should a woman take time off because she is cramping? There are female police officers who chase criminals and run, even during a painful PMS. Ever seen a PMS cop? I have and I feel for the criminals...LOL. But with civil rights and lawsuits, women had their ways. Women (albeit quite slowly and not in too many sectors) are comparable to men. So with the NOW, BITCH magazine, etc., as well as all the women's rights organization as well as political leaders giving women the rights they deserve, why should I as a man, open a door, offer my seat or do anything that's construed as sexist? In some cases, and in corporate arenas, which I work in, I can get in trouble for sexual harassment. Yes, sexual harassment for degrading a woman. So should I be the gentleman I was taught to be or like I said on the first thread, do what's correct for the 21st century? I want women to answer too. P.S., I am not calling a man who opens the door or offers a seat weak, you're doing what was expected back in the early 19th and 20th century. Am I wrong? to worry about my future? Or is it just part and parcel of what's expected of the women's movement? I want to hear the women's side.
err... chill out? not all women will think that it's sexist if you offer to do stuff for her.
i don't know... if i don't open the door or something like that, i would start thinking about how my mother would disapprove.

[teaz0r]

Originally posted by SunWuKung@Mar 5 2003, 10:46 AM
err... chill out? not all women will think that it's sexist if you offer to do stuff for her.
i don't know... if i don't open the door or something like that, i would start thinking about how my mother would disapprove.
i like daisies. when you buy me flowers buy me daisies.

[teaz0r]

or forget the daisies, and get me a fat 5 carat ring from bvlgari.

[golden_buns]

Originally posted by specialK@Mar 4 2003, 06:35 PM

oops, i just assumed he said open the door. THAT's cool.
GO HORNS!!!

The eyeeeeees of texas are upon youuuu.....

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by pipSy@Mar 4 2003, 10:52 PM
or forget the daisies, and get me a fat 5 carat ring from bvlgari.
i can't really afford that right now
you'll have to settle for cubic zirconium

[teaz0r]

cubic zirc? then i rather have just the flowers.
atleast i'll like it.

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by pipSy@Mar 4 2003, 11:15 PM
cubic zirc? then i rather have just the flowers.
atleast i'll like it.
ok! less $$$ for me to have to spend! just call me el cheapo. :)

[kasia]

Originally posted by Asian_American_Sansei@Mar 4 2003, 04:54 PM
Well, here's why I believe chivalry should be dead. Because it's too confusing to choose. I used to be a member of APSU (Asian and Pacific Islander Student Union) and during the 60s to the early 90s, one of the topics as well as an agenda to fight for was the battle against the proverbial glass ceiling women and especially women of color face. Minus civil servant jobs, there were a lot of women who could not attain the CE-level of major corporations. Regardless of the educational background, there is this glass-ceiling that kept them down. One such excuse is: Why should a woman attain the higher places when she bears a baby, why should she be allowed to take time off to raise the child? Should not the woman stay with the child and raise him or her? Why should her job be saved because she was having a bay? Having a baby is a lifestyle change, it was the choice between the husband and wife; not the corporation. Then why should a job be left on hold so that work would be saved for her? After years of struggle, the woman's job in the private sector was saved. Also, a husband can take time off too so that he can raise the child. My friend did that. But unfortunately, a one-person income does not help much. Another problem was; Men never have PMS, so when a woman gripes, the corporate leaders thought that the job comes first and your own pain is secondary. Why should a woman take time off because she is cramping? There are female police officers who chase criminals and run, even during a painful PMS. Ever seen a PMS cop? I have and I feel for the criminals...LOL. But with civil rights and lawsuits, women had their ways. Women (albeit quite slowly and not in too many sectors) are comparable to men. So with the NOW, BITCH magazine, etc., as well as all the women's rights organization as well as political leaders giving women the rights they deserve, why should I as a man, open a door, offer my seat or do anything that's construed as sexist? In some cases, and in corporate arenas, which I work in, I can get in trouble for sexual harassment. Yes, sexual harassment for degrading a woman. So should I be the gentleman I was taught to be or like I said on the first thread, do what's correct for the 21st century? I want women to answer too. P.S., I am not calling a man who opens the door or offers a seat weak, you're doing what was expected back in the early 19th and 20th century. Am I wrong? to worry about my future? Or is it just part and parcel of what's expected of the women's movement? I want to hear the women's side.
equal opportunity for men and women does not entail things having to be exactly the same. sometimes things need to be different - because men and women are different - in order for things to be equal.

e.g., women's restrooms have more stalls than men's restrooms. this is because women have to go into stalls and sit down when they do their business while men can just use a urinal. the former is more time-consuming. that's why they created more stalls for women. so that women would be accommodated at the same level that men are.

[Asian_American_Sansei]

So when I get yelled at by women at work who get pissed off for opening the door, stepping away and allowing them in, and get yelled at for be condescending, what can one do? Also, why is it improper for Dell computers to portray a woman as a bubblehead behind a computer (which I think is f-ed up), but portray men as idiots when they go shopping? In Southern California, there is a fast-food joint called Carl's Jr. The show starts off as a guy who's looking at refrigerator full of meat, the man picks at the meat in confusion and the announcer on the commercial says: If it wasn't for us, some guys would starve. Is that wrong? Is it OK to degrade men? I have a picture of Rush from their Vapor Trails photo still on my computer desktop. There are women with barely clothed hunk on theirs. To me, that's fine, but why is there a double standard for men, if I were to put a photo on my desktop of a scantily clothed woman from Playboy? So should there be chivalry or equality? And if we want equality, should it not be across the board? Or should we keep the women down and treat them like second class by showing them that we are the Alpha and they are the Beta?

[kimpossible]

Are you having that much trouble with this at your place of work? The majority of women are pissed off at you for opening a door? Or is this an isolated incident. I'm not trying to to dismiss your argument but rather trying to pare it down a bit so I can answer the question since you want responses from females.

It's a bit difficult for me to answer because 1) Most males I know at even extremely large companies with a close to 50/50 gender ratio don't have much of a problem with this 2) I'm not one of those females that gets pissed off if you hold a door for me whether it's held by a man or woman.

Regarding the naked pic on your desktop. I personally would not even be bothered by such an object. Now if you were to stroke it, stroke yourself to it, talk about it all the time instead of getting work done or start some weak assed sexual innendo bullshit with me and the picture was there to somehow help you engage in activities that made you less efficient or interfere with my job efficiency, I'd be pissed. Otherwise I don't care if you have a picture of a full out orgy with extreme closeups on your desk.

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by Asian_American_Sansei@Mar 5 2003, 12:09 AM
So when I get yelled at by women at work who get pissed off for opening the door, stepping away and allowing them in, and get yelled at for be condescending, what can one do? Also, why is it improper for Dell computers to portray a woman as a bubblehead behind a computer (which I think is f-ed up), but portray men as idiots when they go shopping? In Southern California, there is a fast-food joint called Carl's Jr. The show starts off as a guy who's looking at refrigerator full of meat, the man picks at the meat in confusion and the announcer on the commercial says: If it wasn't for us, some guys would starve. Is that wrong? Is it OK to degrade men? I have a picture of Rush from their Vapor Trails photo still on my computer desktop. There are women with barely clothed hunk on theirs. To me, that's fine, but why is there a double standard for men, if I were to put a photo on my desktop of a scantily clothed woman from Playboy? So should there be chivalry or equality? And if we want equality, should it not be across the board? Or should we keep the women down and treat them like second class by showing them that we are the Alpha and they are the Beta?
woah, hold on there. what is the real issue you're talking about? i mean if you don't want to open doors for women, etc, then don't do it. nobody is forcing you to do it (right?).

double standards and male degradation, at least to me, is another issue altogether. and anyway, i think a lot of female degradation is so accepted and transparent in society that you just don't notice it. i think it's still worse for women.

i don't know who you work with or where you work, but no woman at work (or outside of work) has gotten pissed off at me when i open the door for her. some women might have felt awkward about it, but most have actually expressed appreciation. and i've never seen any woman at work with "barely clothed hunks" on her computer desktop, even when i worked at startups that basically don't give a shit what you do socially.

[specialK]

GO HORNS!!!

The eyeeeeees of texas are upon youuuu.....

woohoo, go horns! :lol:

[Hanuman]

I'm very old fashioned.
Even though I have automatic locks on my car I always open the door for the lady.
If we're shopping I carry the bags.
If I'm walking down the street with her I make sure I'm on the outside, closest to the street.
I pull out the seat for her
I help her with her jacket/coat.
If I'm on a train or bus and an elderly person comes in (either sex) I'll offer it to them.

It's just the way I was brought up and I can't see how this can be wrong. I've never ever once heard a woman complain about it. I've worked in big companies where the ratio was close to 50/50 and women still appreciated it. In my experiance, now matter the title or rank a person may obtain, a women is still a women and a man is still a man. Oh and if anyone did object, I'm sure they'd voice it, so if that happened, I'll let her do her own stuff and not worry about it.

[kasia]

Originally posted by Asian_American_Sansei@Mar 4 2003, 09:09 PM
So when I get yelled at by women at work who get pissed off for opening the door, stepping away and allowing them in, and get yelled at for be condescending, what can one do? Also, why is it improper for Dell computers to portray a woman as a bubblehead behind a computer (which I think is f-ed up), but portray men as idiots when they go shopping? In Southern California, there is a fast-food joint called Carl's Jr. The show starts off as a guy who's looking at refrigerator full of meat, the man picks at the meat in confusion and the announcer on the commercial says: If it wasn't for us, some guys would starve. Is that wrong? Is it OK to degrade men? I have a picture of Rush from their Vapor Trails photo still on my computer desktop. There are women with barely clothed hunk on theirs. To me, that's fine, but why is there a double standard for men, if I were to put a photo on my desktop of a scantily clothed woman from Playboy? So should there be chivalry or equality? And if we want equality, should it not be across the board? Or should we keep the women down and treat them like second class by showing them that we are the Alpha and they are the Beta?
well, let's stick to the topic of chivalry and not get into discrimination in the media. have you ever been yelled at by women when you open the door for them?

[kasia]

Originally posted by Tawee@Mar 5 2003, 02:57 AM
I'm very old fashioned.
Even though I have automatic locks on my car I always open the door for the lady.
If we're shopping I carry the bags.
If I'm walking down the street with her I make sure I'm on the outside, closest to the street.
I pull out the seat for her
I help her with her jacket/coat.
If I'm on a train or bus and an elderly person comes in (either sex) I'll offer it to them.

It's just the way I was brought up and I can't see how this can be wrong. I've never ever once heard a woman complain about it. I've worked in big companies where the ratio was close to 50/50 and women still appreciated it. In my experiance, now matter the title or rank a person may obtain, a women is still a women and a man is still a man. Oh and if anyone did object, I'm sure they'd voice it, so if that happened, I'll let her do her own stuff and not worry about it.
but still no guy has taken his jacket off and placed it over a puddle for me to walk over. <_< do any guys do that anymore?

[moschikat]

Originally posted by kasia@Mar 5 2003, 10:43 AM

but still no guy has taken his jacket off and placed it over a puddle for me to walk over. &nbsp;<_< &nbsp;do any guys do that anymore?
ooohooo!! P' Tawee narak jung! :blush: *pats you on the bum*

Uhm, not the jacket on the puddle thing, but they kind of hold their jacket on the outside of the sidewalk when it's been raining so that the cars don't spash ya :lol:

yeah, i think its like a "blind faith" thing . . . if you believe it exists (i do!!) - then, uhm, you'll give off an aura of sorts ??? i dunno . . . :P

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by kasia@Mar 5 2003, 01:43 PM
but still no guy has taken his jacket off and placed it over a puddle for me to walk over. <_< do any guys do that anymore?
sheeyeah riiiiight.
i'll hold the girl's hand while she walks around it or over it.
chivalry is one thing, i better be getting some poon at the end of the date if i'm gonna ruin my jacket.

[Napoleon Chynamite]

Originally posted by kasia@Mar 5 2003, 10:43 AM
Originally posted by Tawee@Mar 5 2003, 02:57 AM
I'm very old fashioned. &nbsp;
Even though I have automatic locks on my car I always open the door for the lady. &nbsp;
If we're shopping I carry the bags.
If I'm walking down the street with her I make sure I'm on the outside, closest to the street. &nbsp;
I pull out the seat for her
I help her with her jacket/coat.
If I'm on a train or bus and an elderly person comes in (either sex) &nbsp;I'll offer it to them.

It's just the way I was brought up and I can't see how this can be wrong. &nbsp;I've never ever once heard a woman complain about it. &nbsp;I've worked in big companies where the ratio was close to 50/50 and women still appreciated it. &nbsp;In my experiance, now matter the title or rank a person may obtain, a women is still a women and a man is still a man. &nbsp;Oh and if anyone did object, I'm sure they'd voice it, so if that happened, I'll let her do her own stuff and not worry about it.
but still no guy has taken his jacket off and placed it over a puddle for me to walk over. <_< do any guys do that anymore?
I'd do it but I hardly ever wear jackets, even when it's snowing. Only if it's like pouring buckets of rain then maybe I'll grab a windbreaker and tie it around my waist.

[Asian_American_Sansei]

Originally posted by SunWuKung@Mar 4 2003, 11:53 PM
woah, hold on there. &nbsp;what is the real issue you're talking about? &nbsp;i mean if you don't want to open doors for women, etc, then don't do it. &nbsp;nobody is forcing you to do it (right?). &nbsp;

double standards and male degradation, at least to me, is another issue altogether. &nbsp;and anyway, i think a lot of female degradation is so accepted and transparent in society that you just don't notice it. &nbsp;i think it's still worse for women.

i don't know who you work with or where you work, but no woman at work (or outside of work) has gotten pissed off at me when i open the door for her. &nbsp;some women might have felt awkward about it, but most have actually expressed appreciation. &nbsp;and i've never seen any woman at work with "barely clothed hunks" on her computer desktop, even when i worked at startups that basically don't give a shit what you do socially.
But both things leads to another. Meaning, It was OK to discriminate against Asian immigrants in the 1800s but it segued to the imprisonment of more than 120,000 Japanese American. It also led to the killing of Vincent Chen, it also led to wiretapping of Muslims and the roundup of Middle Eastern boys and men (<--Remember, according to geography class, they are Asian too).

What starts off as something simple as chivalry, can segue to to something even more heinous. I read in the Readers Digest the same topic. The writer writes: it is wrong to discriminate against minorities. Yet why is it more than all right to discriminate against men? This is the result of men being politically over-powered and stomped upon, because we allow it. We must either treat women as helpless or treat them in the workplace, schools, etc., as equal. There are no middle ground. I was accused of being an insensitive dick at work for not opening up the door and also entering before the woman. I could have gone to the H.R. office and file a complaint, but I did not. I told her that I am for the right a woman to climb up the corporate ladder, to make it to the top (which she wholeheartedly agreed), but on the other side of the proverbial coin, I told her that I can file a sexual harrassment lawsuit against you and the company. She stood dumbfounded. She wants to as like many (NOT ALL PEOPLE) have life both ways. So men, let me direct this question to you, should chivalry exist? And women, what would you want from the men?

[Asian_American_Sansei]

Originally posted by SunWuKung@Mar 5 2003, 01:49 PM
sheeyeah riiiiight. &nbsp;
i'll hold the girl's hand while she walks around it or over it.
chivalry is one thing, i better be getting some poon at the end of the date if i'm gonna ruin my jacket.
I'm with Sun, I would never do anything like that, but I still get poon and I do not use alcohol, roofies or any other crap like them losers to get laid. You tyhink I would want to spend money if I were banging a booty-call? Hell no, she aint worth it, even though she is an L.A. 9 or 10. If I placed my jacket down, I would have to wash it too, That cost money!

[golden_buns]

Originally posted by specialK@Mar 5 2003, 12:17 AM
GO HORNS!!!

The eyeeeeees of texas are upon youuuu.....

woohoo, go horns! :lol:
how's the semester going, is your ass spending some quality time at UGL?

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by Asian_American_Sansei@Mar 5 2003, 06:33 PM
What starts off as something simple as chivalry, can segue to to something even more heinous.
i don't really agree with that. and honestly, i don't see that much male degradation.
i've never had a woman complain that i opened the door for her, and i've also never had a woman complain that i didn't open the door for her.

[applehead]

Originally posted by SunWuKung@Mar 5 2003, 08:51 PM
and i've also never had a woman complain that i didn't open the door for her.
oh believe me rad. she does.
she'll complain.
to her friends.
when it's all said and done.
she does.

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by applehead@Mar 6 2003, 12:06 AM
oh believe me rad. she does.
she'll complain.
to her friends.
when it's all said and done.
she does.
well, if she actually cares enough to complain to her friends, that probably means she's attracted to me and wants my body, and wished that i opened the door for her.

[applehead]

Originally posted by SunWuKung@Mar 5 2003, 09:41 PM
Originally posted by applehead@Mar 6 2003, 12:06 AM
oh believe me rad. she does.
she'll complain.
to her friends.
when it's all said and done.
she does.
well, if she actually cares enough to complain to her friends, that probably means she's attracted to me and wants my body, and wished that i opened the door for her.
my sister complains about guys who don't open doors for her at work.
she says they're almost always the asian men.
the white guys ALWAYS open the doors for her.
and it's not just the doors...

but.. you know... she definitely doesn't want their body.
blah

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by applehead@Mar 6 2003, 12:43 AM
Originally posted by SunWuKung@Mar 5 2003, 09:41 PM
Originally posted by applehead@Mar 6 2003, 12:06 AM
oh believe me rad. she does.
she'll complain.
to her friends.
when it's all said and done.
she does.
well, if she actually cares enough to complain to her friends, that probably means she's attracted to me and wants my body, and wished that i opened the door for her.
my sister complains about guys who don't open doors for her at work.
she says they're almost always the asian men.
the white guys ALWAYS open the doors for her.
and it's not just the doors...

but.. you know... she definitely doesn't want their body.
blah
hey, i open doors for women most of the time. my momma taught me. it's just that sometimes when it would be physically too awkward to do so, because of where we are standing relative to the door, i don't do it.

[applehead]

Originally posted by SunWuKung@Mar 5 2003, 09:45 PM
Originally posted by applehead@Mar 6 2003, 12:43 AM
Originally posted by SunWuKung@Mar 5 2003, 09:41 PM
Originally posted by applehead@Mar 6 2003, 12:06 AM
oh believe me rad. she does.
she'll complain.
to her friends.
when it's all said and done.
she does.
well, if she actually cares enough to complain to her friends, that probably means she's attracted to me and wants my body, and wished that i opened the door for her.
my sister complains about guys who don't open doors for her at work.
she says they're almost always the asian men.
the white guys ALWAYS open the doors for her.
and it's not just the doors...

but.. you know... she definitely doesn't want their body.
blah
hey, i open doors for women most of the time. my momma taught me. it's just that sometimes when it would be physically too awkward to do so, because of where we are standing relative to the door, i don't do it.
HAHAHAHAHHAHA
that's um. a good excuse rad.

but .. i always felt bad when a guy would drape his coat over my shoulders.
because i always felt that... if i'm cold.
he must be cold too.
it just seems unfair.

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by applehead@Mar 6 2003, 12:46 AM
Originally posted by SunWuKung@Mar 5 2003, 09:45 PM
Originally posted by applehead@Mar 6 2003, 12:43 AM
Originally posted by SunWuKung@Mar 5 2003, 09:41 PM
Originally posted by applehead@Mar 6 2003, 12:06 AM
oh believe me rad. she does.
she'll complain.
to her friends.
when it's all said and done.
she does.
well, if she actually cares enough to complain to her friends, that probably means she's attracted to me and wants my body, and wished that i opened the door for her.
my sister complains about guys who don't open doors for her at work.
she says they're almost always the asian men.
the white guys ALWAYS open the doors for her.
and it's not just the doors...

but.. you know... she definitely doesn't want their body.
blah
hey, i open doors for women most of the time. my momma taught me. it's just that sometimes when it would be physically too awkward to do so, because of where we are standing relative to the door, i don't do it.
HAHAHAHAHHAHA
that's um. a good excuse rad.

but .. i always felt bad when a guy would drape his coat over my shoulders.
because i always felt that... if i'm cold.
he must be cold too.
it just seems unfair.
we don't get cold
we're manly men

[Hanuman]

Originally posted by kasia@Mar 5 2003, 01:43 PM
but still no guy has taken his jacket off and placed it over a puddle for me to walk over. <_< do any guys do that anymore?
Ok, I've never done that, but I have stood in the puddle and lifted a girl across the puddle. This only works with small girls.

[kangal]

i always go through the rain and pick up the girl if we're coming out from someplace....the best is when its raining, and i try to run while wearing sandals...nothing is more chivalrous then eating eat....

[specialK]

Originally posted by golden_buns@Mar 5 2003, 07:57 PM
Originally posted by specialK@Mar 5 2003, 12:17 AM
GO HORNS!!!

The eyeeeeees of texas are upon youuuu.....

woohoo, go horns! :lol:
how's the semester going, is your ass spending some quality time at UGL?
ha, i do my studying at the MIC in the SSB. i work there, so i can play on the comp while i'm studying. doing an aas take-home midterm right now. it's going to be the death of me.


oh, and to stay on topic, regardless of whether or not chivalry is dead, a guy should worry more about his personality. that should go a longer way in terms of scoring points with a lady. but then again, all of those after-school specials may be full of shite. :)

[AznYam]

i've never laid my jacket down and helped a girl over a puddle but i have carried my gf from a crowded line over a waist high fence through some tall plants and a flowerbed at disneyland. i got applause. nice huh.

[TongBouHwu]

It never hurts anyone to be nice. So what is the big deal here? Maybe it's just me.

[Fireblade]

Well, I open doors, and I offer my seat up, and other things for girls. But I do believe that chivarly is dead. When your society is growing to be more "pc" about things, other forms of etiquette will be erased. I've been yelled at before by girls that by my offering to open a door for them is a sign that I want them to not be seen as a equal to me. Although I'm sure they meant it in a teasing manner, it kinda shocked me, because it wasn't something I thought I would get yelled at. Additionally, most girls believe that if a guy is acting gentlemanly, that they have some kind of incentive behind it. Many times, a friend or two has confused me with liking them, because I was just honestly doing the things my mother told me to do. What the hell? In society as it stands today, everything is over-analyzed and scrutinized to the smallest detail. We all can't win, and we certainly can't have it both ways.
And to the women who insist that I open the door for them; get over it. Just because I don't open the door for you, doesn't give you the right to scold me about my manners. Maybe it's because I figured that you just weren't important enough. Things of that sort just kinda bug me. And yes, I'm bugged by the fact that girls can look, stare, oggle, drool over men, but as soon as we do it, we're seen as pigs. So you get female empowerment, and male bashing all at once. Life isn't fair, so why do we men have to be seen as the bad guys? Why is it that you get more sympathy for a rape victim who is a girl, rather than a guy? Everything happens both ways, but how things are dealt with are different. When I mentioned stuff about how I was assaulted as a child, I remember many of my friends said that "well.. you're a guy. you'll live." It didn't help much, and I was fustrated, because I remember telling the girls about my plight, and they shrugged it off, as if it never happened to me. But the fact is, it did, and I was hurt when they chose to ignore my suffering. It's as if the media has concocted an image of what a man should be.
But does anyone get treated the same? No. And I'm not sexist in terms that I want men and woman to have this utter b.s. about what is alpha and beta, etc, etc. I just want fair exchange of treatment. But we can't, and we won't have fair treatment, at least not in my lifetime. I just know that not many girls will be opening the door for me anytime soon...

[SunWuKong]

you're a guy. you'll live.

[ChinaLama]

Originally posted by kasia@Mar 5 2003, 06:43 PM

but still no guy has taken his jacket off and placed it over a puddle for me to walk over. <_< do any guys do that anymore?
jump.

[TyroneK(prettypretty)]

Chivalry was never alive. It was a bullshit ideal for knights to spout while they were off raping peasant women and pretending to be civilized. It's like the code of the southern gentleman or the chaste ideal for the medieval clergy. It made the rest of society feel comforatable that someone could conceivably be living up to all these standards when people in power were basically having their way with everything.

Mourning the passing of chivalry is like mourning the death of someone that never existed. The supposed age of chivalry was just a rotten time to be alive. Men beat their wives and treated them like glorified prostitutes. Sexual repression was everywhere. Women never bathed so they suffered from chronic UTI's. Food never kept and the entire continent was engulfed in petty internecine warfare. Everyone was looking forward to death due to the prevailing gloom and hellfire version of Christianity. Plagues. Serfdom. Good riddance.

Some guys are nicer than others. Some were raised better and are more polite. You just have to find them and not just sniff after the guy with the biggest phallus. They stand out. You just have to follow the good words.

- The Virginian Angelic Cutie

[Asian_American_Sansei]

Very good VBKAO! Also, if women want independence, then they should get it too. But if they demand both chivalry as well as independence, then it's too damn confusing what they want! But chivalry should remain equal or no chivalry at all. When I broke my ankle, a little old lady offered me a seat, but I refused. I knew in the future I have to do something in return, so I respectfully declined her offer. That's what women should do too. If they want chivalry? Then stay home, cook your man's dinner, clean the house, so that you can do your day's work when we work. Also stay home and take care the kids. If you think that's sexist, then stop asking men to open up the GODDAMN door!

[Asian_American_Sansei]

Originally posted by SunWuKung@Mar 5 2003, 09:41 PM
Originally posted by applehead@Mar 6 2003, 12:06 AM
oh believe me rad. she does.
she'll complain.
to her friends.
when it's all said and done.
she does.
well, if she actually cares enough to complain to her friends, that probably means she's attracted to me and wants my body, and wished that i opened the door for her.
Or your wallet

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by Asian_American_Sansei@Mar 12 2003, 06:06 PM
Originally posted by SunWuKung@Mar 5 2003, 09:41 PM
Originally posted by applehead@Mar 6 2003, 12:06 AM
oh believe me rad. she does.
she'll complain.
to her friends.
when it's all said and done.
she does.
well, if she actually cares enough to complain to her friends, that probably means she's attracted to me and wants my body, and wished that i opened the door for her.
Or your wallet
that's ok. i'm currently gold-digger immuned (translation: broke).

[applehead]

Originally posted by VBKao@Mar 10 2003, 06:50 PM
Chivalry was never alive. It was a bullshit ideal for knights to spout while they were off raping peasant women and pretending to be civilized. It's like the code of the southern gentleman or the chaste ideal for the medieval clergy. It made the rest of society feel comforatable that someone could conceivably be living up to all these standards when people in power were basically having their way with everything.

Mourning the passing of chivalry is like mourning the death of someone that never existed. The supposed age of chivalry was just a rotten time to be alive. Men beat their wives and treated them like glorified prostitutes. Sexual repression was everywhere. Women never bathed so they suffered from chronic UTI's. Food never kept and the entire continent was engulfed in petty internecine warfare. Everyone was looking forward to death due to the prevailing gloom and hellfire version of Christianity. Plagues. Serfdom. Good riddance.

Some guys are nicer than others. Some were raised better and are more polite. You just have to find them and not just sniff after the guy with the biggest phallus. They stand out. You just have to follow the good words.

- The Virginian Angelic Cutie
you scare me sometimes...

[TyroneK(prettypretty)]

Originally posted by applehead@Mar 15 2003, 07:38 AM
Originally posted by VBKao@Mar 10 2003, 06:50 PM
Chivalry was never alive. It was a bullshit ideal for knights to spout while they were off raping peasant women and pretending to be civilized. It's like the code of the southern gentleman or the chaste ideal for the medieval clergy. It made the rest of society feel comforatable that someone could conceivably be living up to all these standards when people in power were basically having their way with everything.

Mourning the passing of chivalry is like mourning the death of someone that never existed. The supposed age of chivalry was just a rotten time to be alive. Men beat their wives and treated them like glorified prostitutes. Sexual repression was everywhere. Women never bathed so they suffered from chronic UTI's. Food never kept and the entire continent was engulfed in petty internecine warfare. Everyone was looking forward to death due to the prevailing gloom and hellfire version of Christianity. Plagues. Serfdom. Good riddance.

Some guys are nicer than others. Some were raised better and are more polite. You just have to find them and not just sniff after the guy with the biggest phallus. They stand out. You just have to follow the good words.

- The Virginian Angelic Cutie
you scare me sometimes...
Meena, you wound me.

[applehead]

Originally posted by VBKao@Mar 15 2003, 04:47 AM
Originally posted by applehead@Mar 15 2003, 07:38 AM
Originally posted by VBKao@Mar 10 2003, 06:50 PM
Chivalry was never alive. It was a bullshit ideal for knights to spout while they were off raping peasant women and pretending to be civilized. It's like the code of the southern gentleman or the chaste ideal for the medieval clergy. It made the rest of society feel comforatable that someone could conceivably be living up to all these standards when people in power were basically having their way with everything.

Mourning the passing of chivalry is like mourning the death of someone that never existed. The supposed age of chivalry was just a rotten time to be alive. Men beat their wives and treated them like glorified prostitutes. Sexual repression was everywhere. Women never bathed so they suffered from chronic UTI's. Food never kept and the entire continent was engulfed in petty internecine warfare. Everyone was looking forward to death due to the prevailing gloom and hellfire version of Christianity. Plagues. Serfdom. Good riddance.

Some guys are nicer than others. Some were raised better and are more polite. You just have to find them and not just sniff after the guy with the biggest phallus. They stand out. You just have to follow the good words.

- The Virginian Angelic Cutie
you scare me sometimes...
Meena, you wound me.
HAHAHAHAHA
you're so mega. and you know it!

[deez nuts]

puddle. not gonna offer my coat. but if a woman slips and falls face first into the puddle. i will promise not to laugh and help her up. :D

[golden_buns]

how chivalrious a guy is depends on how hot the chick is

[golden_buns]

Originally posted by Chasiubao_Boy@Mar 15 2003, 06:17 AM
puddle. not gonna offer my coat.
ditto, if she asks me to put my dolce & gabana leather jacket on the puddle I'll just throw her there.

[Asian_American_Sansei]

Originally posted by golden_buns@Mar 15 2003, 01:51 PM
how chivalrious a guy is depends on how hot the chick is
The hotter the chick, the bigger the dick you have to be. Damage her self-esteem, by calling the 9s or 10s a little fat, you'll dominate her. trust me, it works. I got 9s and 10s white hotties in bed. Asian women tend to have a lot more self confidence, but I don't do the same crap to Asian women, because they remind me a lot of little sisters.