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View Full Version : Some Asian Conflicts Just Won't Go


achtungbaby
07-09-2002, 12:20 PM
Wed Jul 3, 1:32 PM ET
By GEORGE GEDDA, Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON (AP) - Asia has been a tough neighborhood for the United States for years. Between 1941 and 1975, American troops were sent to fight against Japanese, North Koreans and Vietnamese, with few intervals of peace.

Afghanistan ( news - web sites) aside, the hot wars have stopped, but the risks of conflict on the continent, particularly in the East and Northeast, have been relatively constant to this day.

Nerves were rattled at the State Department and the Pentagon ( news - web sites) last Saturday when vessels from the two Koreas had a shootout in South Korean territorial waters.

The reason for the angst was that such confrontations on the peninsula can escalate — and lead quickly to the involvement of American forces. The conflict between China and Taiwan poses similar risks. Both struggles are more than 50 years old.

Bates Gill, an Asia specialist at the Center for Strategic and International Studies, says it's hard to overestimate the dangers in those regions.

"The potential for pretty serious security challenges to become more challenging is always out there," he says.

In much of Asia, efforts to achieve neighborly relations are thwarted by historical grudges, ideological clashes, religious strife, weapons of mass destruction and uncertainty about whether a resurgent China will be a force for peace.

U.S. administrations often expend energies elsewhere when a serious outbreak of violence threatens. Each time India and Pakistan engage in threats and counter-threats, U.S. diplomats swing into action, as they did this past spring.

But the possibility of direct American military involvement resulting from a nuclear exchange between the two is highly unlikely.

On the Korean Peninsula, not much has changed since the Armistice was signed almost 50 years ago.

Last Saturday's confrontation between the vessels of the two Koreas helped derail an administration effort to resume negotiations with North Korea ( news - web sites) on nonproliferation and other issues that were expected to start next week.

Expressing outrage over the Saturday incident, South Korean President Kim Dae-jung ( news - web sites) warned of potentially dire consequences for the North. "We have the capacity," he said.

North Korea is no slouch itself. Its chemical and biological weapons capabilities threaten the 37,000 U.S. forces in South Korea ( news - web sites) as well as the country's civilian population centers.

Gill ranks the conflict between China and Taiwan as even more perilous.

"Two great powers could come into conflict," he says, alluding to China and the United States.

President Bush ( news - web sites) said last year he was prepared to do "whatever it took to help Taiwan defend herself."

Administration officials are debating how the China-Taiwan power balance is affected by China's testing of new advanced air-to-air missiles last week. To counter this Chinese upgrade, help for Taiwan may be on the way, officials say.

Taiwan aside, there is no consensus here as to how China, once it achieves its full economic and military potential, will relate to its neighbors.

"China's future is very much to be shaped," says Paul Wolfowitz, second in command at the Pentagon. China, he says, could become a force for peace or a "threatening power."

U.S. security concerns, of course, are not limited to East Asia. Iraq has the means and the motives to inflict grave damage on the United States. And so do terrorists from al-Qaida and other groups. The American military effort in Afghanistan is approaching the nine-month mark.

Unlike some conflicts, the China-Taiwan and Korean Peninsula struggles seem never to go away.

"These are long term and intractable challenges," says Gill. "I don't think they will erupt into conflict any time soon. They will still pose an intensive security dilemma. They will require lots of care and feeding."

kasia
07-10-2002, 09:00 PM
his name is bates gill?

just a question: china and taiwan share pop stars. chinese pop stars are welcome in taiwan and vice versa. does the same go for s. and n. korea?

deez nuts
07-11-2002, 10:51 AM
Yeah achtung, it's a crazy world. Some things just don't seem to wanna go away.

ChinaLama
07-11-2002, 03:06 PM
A China and Taiwan war will make even BETTER television war than the soon-to-come U.S.-Iraq War Pt Deux!

Then again, I dunno, US has flashier equipment, so maybe a China Taiwan war would just make better newspaper reading. probably more fun to watch a US-Iraq War.

achtungbaby
07-12-2002, 05:55 PM
I'm just anal. I just didn't like the tone of the article, that Asians are constantly having these conflicts that the U.S. has to valiantly risk itself to solve.

tapestrybabe
07-13-2002, 07:59 PM
[quote:e715b581e4="kasia"]just a question: china and taiwan share pop stars. chinese pop stars are welcome in taiwan and vice versa. does the same go for s. and n. korea?[/quote:e715b581e4]

Naah.. all the pop stars are from south korea. North Korea?? I'm not even sure if they have an entertainment industry with all the problems they experience...

SunWuKong
07-15-2002, 04:06 PM
It is almost inevitable that Taiwan becomes very dependent on China as China's economy keeps getting better. Taiwan cannot afford to [b:4c79d676b6]not[/b:4c79d676b6] establish ties with China. The Chinese economy is pulling others toward it and its political atmosphere is making slow but sure progress. When Chinese-Taiwanese ties are built and solidified, Taiwan will eventually be sort of absorbed into the greater China region. Even Lee Kuan Yew agree with this, to the dismay of Chen Shiu Bian and his supporters.

achtungbaby
07-16-2002, 11:03 PM
[quote:f9173c04a0="SunWuKung"]It is almost inevitable that Taiwan becomes very dependent on China as China's economy keeps getting better.[/quote:f9173c04a0]

I'm completely ignorant as to China's current economic climate (I defer all questions to the commie dog-eater over there), but am curious: what if the Chinese economy comes along more slowly than anticipated or hoped? It seems illogical that such a thing could happen, but stranger things have -- so what then? Sounds like conflict might be inevitable...

ChinaLama
07-16-2002, 11:44 PM
well taiwan is already china's largest foreign investor (domestic fr our commie POV), so if china's economy tanks, won't be any dif in terms of taiwan's dependency on china. of course since their investments may be relatively worth MORE than now, then maybe we'd have to defer the neutron bombs to get their cash pumping first. :roll:

SunWuKong
07-17-2002, 08:37 AM
[quote:e3689d408c="achtungbaby"][quote:e3689d408c="SunWuKung"]It is almost inevitable that Taiwan becomes very dependent on China as China's economy keeps getting better.[/quote:e3689d408c]

I'm completely ignorant as to China's current economic climate (I defer all questions to the commie dog-eater over there), but am curious: what if the Chinese economy comes along more slowly than anticipated or hoped? It seems illogical that such a thing could happen, but stranger things have -- so what then? Sounds like conflict might be inevitable...[/quote:e3689d408c]


that would just mean that things would move along slower. but i do wish that the CCP hadn't threatened taiwan with force. that certainly did not help and also gave the US an excuse to stick its nose in the taiwan strait. i mean come on, you [i:e3689d408c]want[/i:e3689d408c] taiwanese people to want reunification, why the hell would you tell them that you'd lop missiles in their backyards? that just doesn't make sense to me because that isn't in line at all with the current political maneuvering that the CCP engages in nowadays with the international community.

wylin
07-17-2002, 09:06 AM
i think that there wont be any need for the united states to get involved w/ the china-taiwan conflict as economic ties grow there will be less animosity and the way Taiwan pop culture is going w/ its large focus on buisness and speaking mandrin...and being more "chinese" i think that the taiwanese saber rattling about independance will die down when the current generation dies down.

My own political views is that the 2 countries should be unified and not seperated, because having deal w/ tarriffs, taxes, and levies on such a grand scale is pointless, the countries share a cultural heritage, and it makes more sense to be reunified then to be sitting there unifying in buisness and financials sectors and say we'll split in political matters.

One world One Goverment U.N. Spacy (macross)=P

SunWuKong
07-17-2002, 11:15 AM
[quote:f172a7077c="wylin"]i think that there wont be any need for the united states to get involved w/ the china-taiwan conflict as economic ties grow there will be less animosity and the way Taiwan pop culture is going w/ its large focus on buisness and speaking mandrin...and being more "chinese" i think that the taiwanese saber rattling about independance will die down when the current generation dies down.

My own political views is that the 2 countries should be unified and not seperated, because having deal w/ tarriffs, taxes, and levies on such a grand scale is pointless, the countries share a cultural heritage, and it makes more sense to be reunified then to be sitting there unifying in buisness and financials sectors and say we'll split in political matters.

One world One Goverment U.N. Spacy (macross)=P[/quote:f172a7077c]


unfortunately, as long as the CCP stands by its reunification by force threat (which in my opinion is only ever going to be just a threat anyway because war is the worst thing the CCP can do for the chinese economy right now or in the foreseeable future), taiwan will have a legitimate reason to ask for US help and the US will have an excuse to stick its nose in the taiwan strait. i don't know what kind of political relationship taiwan and china will develop, but eventually taiwan will become very culturally and economically dependent on and influenced by china. it's inevitable if things continue moving in the current direction they're going.

achtungbaby
07-19-2002, 08:22 PM
[quote:e7b3256a12="SunWuKung"]i mean come on, you [i:e7b3256a12]want[/i:e7b3256a12] taiwanese people to want reunification, why the hell would you tell them that you'd lop missiles in their backyards? that just doesn't make sense to me because that isn't in line at all with the current political maneuvering that the CCP engages in nowadays with the international community.[/quote:e7b3256a12]

I think reunification is just a frustrating process, period. And honestly, if both sides left their pride at the door, some solution would have come about a long time ago.

SunWuKong
07-20-2002, 12:39 AM
[quote:dce21c63d9="achtungbaby"][quote:dce21c63d9="SunWuKung"]i mean come on, you [i:dce21c63d9]want[/i:dce21c63d9] taiwanese people to want reunification, why the hell would you tell them that you'd lop missiles in their backyards? that just doesn't make sense to me because that isn't in line at all with the current political maneuvering that the CCP engages in nowadays with the international community.[/quote:dce21c63d9]

I think reunification is just a frustrating process, period. And honestly, if both sides left their pride at the door, some solution would have come about a long time ago.[/quote:dce21c63d9]


well it's not really that simple across the taiwan strait, because the majority of people in taiwan, especially those from the younger generation, do not [i:dce21c63d9]want[/i:dce21c63d9] reunification. it's not just a matter of working out the problems between the two. china is wanting what taiwan does not want. while personally i support reunification, it has to come down to a decision that the taiwanese people make, and i am totally against reunification by force. i think china needs to [i:dce21c63d9]pursuade[/i:dce21c63d9] taiwan to want reunification. and threatening to invade is just going to drive more people toward the independence camp. they need to take back the threat and just keep working on improving relations with taiwan while at the same time keep stressing peaceful reunification.