law people here

[kasia]

hi

[Arex]

I respectfully dissent.

Alex

[kasia]

what are you working on?

[Arex]

HA! Just finished that damn opposition. Now I can drive my sorry ass home and get some sleep! Friday, here I come...

Alex

[AsianCyRAno]

I'm working on an informational interview to help me decide what i should major in and hence what i should do career wise. If any of you are in the law profession or currently in law school rite now please (and i do mean PLEASE CUZ I'M RUNNING A LITTLE BEHIND ON THINGS) tell me some things about law school and the practice itself. You can leave your name and place of work as a private message since I know some people don't like to show the world their email address. Some stupid people spam...trust me 8O.

Some questions of mine:
1. What do you like most about your job? The least?
2. What kind of skills and abilities are necessary to make it in law?
3. What kind of training is required?
4. How much stress is involved for a person just entering the law profession?
5. And lastly, how do you balance your personal life with your job?

Thank You :D

[kasia]

1. i'm in civil rights litigation, working for a firm that sues cops and cities and such. we handle excessive force/police brutality cases, employment discrimination, and so on. i feel pretty passionate about what i do--so that is probably what i like best. as for what i like the least---the long hours!!!

2. good analytic skills, reading and writing skills, and thick skin.

3. law school (3 years). you can pretty much major in anything in college. my advice would be to major in whatever interests you most. there is no "right" major.

4. lots of stress. law students and lawyers probably drink and smoke more than individuals of other professions. actually, i think it may depend on the type of law you're interested in.

5. you won't have one. unless you work for the government or public interest. j/k. i dunno...time management is a skill you will probably pick up in college.

feel free to private message me if you have any other questions good luck! :wink:

[Arex]

1. There's really not much I like about my job. I'm not sure that it's the profession, my shitty pay, or just the fact that it's my first real full time permanent job. What I like least is the fact that I'm making less than I could be if I was a teacher (that's my own fault for not getting off my but to find a better job). This is not helped at all by the fact that I'm couped up in an office all day staring at a computer screen. Also, since I'm at a tiny firm, I've got ot answer the phones whenever our secretary's occupied. That makes for a pretty distracting work environment.

2. I'd say you've got to have good reading comprehension and writing abilities. Logical reasoning is important as well. If you want to be a trial attorney, you're going to want to be comfortable with public speaking. Being quick thinking on one's toes is helpful as well.

3. What kind of training is involved? Pretty much all there is is lawschool. Depending on the school, they may or may not teach you anything useful for the actual practice of law. Legal research and writing is probably the most important class that I took in school (it's usually a mandatory first year class). Everything else just gives you a basic understanding of various areas of law. Depending on what you do, however, you probably won't dabble in all that many different areas of law anyway though so it ultimately isn't useful beyond helping you pass the Bar.

4. For myself, as well as a lot of people I know, there's a lot of stress entering into the profession. But going to lawschool, in a sense, trains you for that stress 'cause it can be pretty damn stressful itself (at least first year can). Again, I'm not sure how much of this is just due to this job being my first permanent full time job. Though, given the pay, I suppose I shouldn't stress myself out--they aren't paying me enough to stress out.

5. It depends on the person. I think I've done a pretty good job balancing my personal life and my work life. Of course, my hours are not so bad as I generally work no more than 45-50 hours a week. Some of my friends are working upwards of 70-80 hours a week. Those guys're making $120k+ so I think they ought to work that much.=) I usually go out every weekend with my various friends and, on the rare occasion, I'll still go out on a Thursday night. I still see my family. If I had a girlfriend, I imagine it wouldn't be a problem either. Some of my friends never come out anymore. For me, I think the balance is necessary. All work and no play = suicide for me.

I went into this profession purely by default. I was graduating from undergrad and I didn't have a clue as to what I should do. My friend told me to take the LSAT so I did and then I got into a good (private) school. Unfortunately, with all this gnarly debt, for the time being, I feel I'm kinda stuck. Plus I owe it to myself to give it an honest chance. Unless you're actually interested in becoming an attorney, I wouldn't recommend doing the default thing unless you get into a public school (= less debt). But if you are interested, by all means, go for it! It looks like you're doing your homework before making any kind of decision though. Good luck!

Alex

[SunWuKong]

can i ask what law schools you two went to? i have been working for a few years now and have decided that i want to go to law school. on the other hand, i'm not sure if it'll be worth it unless i get into a really good school because i'll be in debt by the time i get out and if i continue doing what i do (programmer) i might actually be making more money in 3 or 4 years and without debt, too. so the problem is that i need to get into a really good law school to be worth it financially as well, which can be difficult because my undergrad GPA sucks to say the least. what advise can you give me short of studying my ass off for the LSAT?

[kasia]

i'm still in law school. i'll be a 3L at University of Southern California School of Law next year. I will be in a lot of debt when i come out :) lookin forward to it.

if you already have some sort of B.S. degree, that will definitely help you in landing a job at a good firm. that is, if you want to stay in that field.

[Arex]

I too graduated from USC law school and am inundated with school debt. Tips for taking the LSAT? I just took a grip of practice exams to get used to the time pressure (my friend took Testmasters and let me borrow his sample exams). I bought a few books but never really read them due to my short attention span. I imagine some of the techniques they teach you for the logic games section might have helped. That's about all I did. If you're fearing that law school debt, my recommendations would be to practice practice practice so you can kick ass on your LSAT and get into a kick-ass public school in your home state!

Alex

[SunWuKong]

Well it's not just the debt. It's the whole balance sheet of it. If I stay being a programmer, with 3 or 4 more years of experience, I could be making as much as a lawyer who graduated out of most law schools. I am not so passionate about getting into law that I would ignore this fact. That being said, I would need to get into a really good law school for me to be making more money than if I stayed being a programmer. Maybe I sound greedy, but I still have to ask myself if it would be worth it if I don't get into a really good school. Well actually I'm already leaning toward a yes because I really can't imagine myself being a programmer for the rest of my life.

Anyway, I want to get into corporate/business law and work in China for American companies with investments and operations in China. That's the long-term goal.

[AsianCyRAno]

Did you get my other questions Kasia? I think i PM'd you those. Thanks!

[kasia]

what's the difference between summary judgment and summary adjudication? i don' t want to look it up.

[Arex]

Summary judgment is judgment with respect to the entire case. Summary adjudication is judgment with respect to individual causes of action within a case. You can request them in the alternative (i.e., ask for summary judgment and, if not, then summary adjudication).

Alex

[kasia]

zank you. why didn't they teach us that in law school? or was i asleep during that lecture?

[Arex]

I learned that first in pre-trial advocacy. There was no reason to burden us with those little nuances in civ pro--we had enough shit to worry about then...

Alex

[Barbs]

for those who are practicing...how is the market in CA looking right now? resources too if available? thanks...

[Arex]

I'm actually supposed to be getting off my butt to look for a lateral position now that I can kinda claim to have one year of employment under my belt. I'll let you know how it is when I start looking. Of course, just 'cause a firm doesn't want me doesn't mean they wouldn't jump at the opportunity to hire someone else with more impressive credentials...

I plan on using the Los Angeles Daily Journal listings and doing a mass-mail compaign using Martindale Hubble.


Alex

[Barbs]

i actually won't be looking for another 6 months cuz i plan to stay at my job for a year and then look for a lateral move as well. is the LA daily journal accessible online?

[Arex]

Originally posted by Barbs@Aug 11 2002, 11:53 PM
i actually won't be looking for another 6 months cuz i plan to stay at my job for a year and then look for a lateral move as well. is the LA daily journal accessible online?
Hey, what do you know! The Daily Journal classifieds are available online for free. Which makes me wonder why I plunked down all this money for a subscription to this periodical that I rarely even read! Doh!

Go to www.dailyjournal.com (http://www.dailyjournal.com) and click on employment to view the listings.

Dumbass Alex



<!--EDIT|Arex|Aug 12 2002, 12:54 AM-->

[Barbs]

hmm..thanks for the link. maybe the hard copy will motivate you more to job-search? nah probably not but it sounded like a reassuring thing to say. hehe...

[SunWuKong]

i'm planning on taking the LSAT soon and i have a question. do you have to tell the LSAT people which schools you want to apply to? what i mean is, do you have to have decided which schools you want to apply to by the time you take the test? because there are probably some schools i might or might not want to bother with depending on the outcome of my LSAT score.

[Barbs]

i honestly don't remember but i think at some point u have to tell them. but not necessarily when u take ur lsats. however, u'd probably want to decide soon seeing as deadlines are rolling around the corner.

u should also just go to the lsac website and look all this information up.

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by Barbs@Aug 13 2002, 12:32 AM
i honestly don't remember but i think at some point u have to tell them. but not necessarily when u take ur lsats. however, u'd probably want to decide soon seeing as deadlines are rolling around the corner.

u should also just go to the lsac website and look all this information up.
yeah i have a few schools in mind. it's just that i might not want to bother with some of them if i got a shitty score.

[Arex]

Originally posted by SunWuKung@Aug 13 2002, 08:47 AM
yeah i have a few schools in mind. it's just that i might not want to bother with some of them if i got a shitty score.
As far as I can remember, you only have to tell 'em which schools you want your LSDAS and LSAT scores sent to and this needs to be done so that the schools get the reports by the time your applications are due. I'm not sure how long the process takes. But check with the LSAC and the schools for the final word...

Alex

[SunWuKong]

alright... it just dawned on me that I've really messed up here. I was planning on taking the LSAT in Dec., but now I realized that I won't get my results back until the middle of Jan., but most deadlines for law school application are in early Feb. And it's usually just first-come-first serve in admission.

I can take the LSAT in Oct., but I'm only starting to study for it now. I don't think I can depend on the score I'd get in Oct.

arrrgg... what do you people think? should I wait another year? damn it i feel like such a fuck-up...

[deez nuts]

Originally posted by SunWuKung@Aug 14 2002, 06:52 AM
alright... it just dawned on me that I've really messed up here. I was planning on taking the LSAT in Dec., but now I realized that I won't get my results back until the middle of Jan., but most deadlines for law school application are in early Feb. And it's usually just first-come-first serve in admission.

I can take the LSAT in Oct., but I'm only starting to study for it now. I don't think I can depend on the score I'd get in Oct.

arrrgg... what do you people think? should I wait another year? damn it i feel like such a fuck-up...
I didn't take the LSAT, but from my experience from taking the MCAT was that 2 months is not enough to prepare for it. I prepped for the MCAT about 6 months in advance, so I assume the LSAT would require the same preparation.

[Barbs]

are u taking a prep course? i believe that the LSATS are not as hard as the MCATS but of course i can't make an accurate assessment since i never took the MCATS.

do a diagnostic. if u're comfortable where u're at, i think u can go ahead and take the october one and apply this year. if u wait another year, it's another year wasted.

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by Barbs@Aug 14 2002, 02:59 PM
are u taking a prep course? i believe that the LSATS are not as hard as the MCATS but of course i can't make an accurate assessment since i never took the MCATS.

do a diagnostic. if u're comfortable where u're at, i think u can go ahead and take the october one and apply this year. if u wait another year, it's another year wasted.
i think this is what i'm going to do: take the Oct test and if my scores don't suck, i'll go ahead and apply. but if they do, i'll wait another year. i don't think i'll have much of a chance if i rely on the Dec test and have to wait for the scores to come back in mid Jan. actually i'm not even too confident in doing that well in Oct.

arg... that's 2 years i'll have to actually go to law school.

[Arex]

Originally posted by SunWuKung@Aug 14 2002, 03:55 PM
i think this is what i'm going to do: &nbsp;take the Oct test and if my scores don't suck, i'll go ahead and apply. &nbsp;but if they do, i'll wait another year. &nbsp;i don't think i'll have much of a chance if i rely on the Dec test and have to wait for the scores to come back in mid Jan. &nbsp;actually i'm not even too confident in doing that well in Oct.

arg... &nbsp;that's 2 years i'll have to actually go to law school.
I vaguely recall that lots of schools average your LSAT scores rather than simply taking the best one. That being the case, if you decide to take the October one, just take as many diagnostic tests as you can and cram like a motherf#$&er. I honestly think that, if you don't have too much else going on, you can get in all the studying that needs to be done in time for the test. The good thing about this test is that there aren't really any things that you 've got to memorize such as stupid vocabulary and the like. Then again, I didn't take any prep courses so perhaps they are little tricks and such that you need to internalize...?? At any rate, good luck.

BTW, taking the October test now or waiting may ultimately just be a wash since it seems like median scores and GPAs go up each friggin' year. Then again, if you put it off a year, that gives you time to reconsider your decision to enter this...profession. :P

Alex

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by Arex@Aug 14 2002, 08:24 PM
Originally posted by SunWuKung@Aug 14 2002, 03:55 PM
i think this is what i'm going to do: take the Oct test and if my scores don't suck, i'll go ahead and apply. but if they do, i'll wait another year. i don't think i'll have much of a chance if i rely on the Dec test and have to wait for the scores to come back in mid Jan. actually i'm not even too confident in doing that well in Oct.

arg... that's 2 years i'll have to actually go to law school.
I vaguely recall that lots of schools average your LSAT scores rather than simply taking the best one. That being the case, if you decide to take the October one, just take as many diagnostic tests as you can and cram like a motherf#$&er. I honestly think that, if you don't have too much else going on, you can get in all the studying that needs to be done in time for the test. The good thing about this test is that there aren't really any things that you 've got to memorize such as stupid vocabulary and the like. Then again, I didn't take any prep courses so perhaps they are little tricks and such that you need to internalize...?? At any rate, good luck.

BTW, taking the October test now or waiting may ultimately just be a wash since it seems like median scores and GPAs go up each friggin' year. Then again, if you put it off a year, that gives you time to reconsider your decision to enter this...profession. :P

Alex
yeah it's... i don't know. the choice is taking a chance and seeing if i can get a good score in Oct, versus not taking the Oct test and just wait another year. i know about the averaging of the LSAT scores, so i just hope i don't screw myself over with a really bad score in Oct.

waiting 2 more years to enter law school would suck. i'm already going to be 26 next month. but i'm not sure i have much of a choice, so there's nothing i can do about it. let's hope a miracle occurs and i get a good score in Oct.

[deez nuts]

Originally posted by SunWuKung@Aug 15 2002, 02:06 AM

yeah it's... i don't know. the choice is taking a chance and seeing if i can get a good score in Oct, versus not taking the Oct test and just wait another year. i know about the averaging of the LSAT scores, so i just hope i don't screw myself over with a really bad score in Oct.

waiting 2 more years to enter law school would suck. i'm already going to be 26 next month. but i'm not sure i have much of a choice, so there's nothing i can do about it. let's hope a miracle occurs and i get a good score in Oct.
If you gonna take the October LSAT, just study your ass off and do your best. Everything else will fall into place. And don't let the age thing get to ya, there was a 34 year old man with a wife and 2 kids that started med school when I started.

On a side note, we need more competent and capable Asian lawyers from our generation. I closed today on buying of my co-op. Don't take offense to what I am about to say. I had a Chinese lawyer that my parents recommended to me. I basically got my ass handed to me by the seller's Jewish lawyer during closing. I don't want to get into details, but basically the Jewish lawyer just walked all over my lawyer and me. And the funny part is that I was the buyer, is that even common?



<!--EDIT|Chasiubao_Boy|Aug 16 2002, 09:59 PM-->

[Chris]

Was a Conflicts Analyst for a major law firm. God I love bossing around Associates and Partners. wheeee!!! But got layoff half a year ago.