Are you Asian American?

[YuheiCarreau]

Recently I was talking to a friend about how I identify myself culturally. Nationality is pretty much a legal matter (either you have citizenship or you don't), but culture is a much stickier issue.

I have never really identified as Asian American; although I am part Asian and I was raised in the US, I was born with American citizenship that I inherited from a White person. Additionally, although I grew up around many Japanese (family in Japan and kids in Japanese school), they were all Japanese citizens and considered themselves as such. I think the first time I started hanging out with Asian Americans was in 10th grade. I think it would be disrespectful for me to call myself an Asian American; firstly because I also inherited Japanese citizenship from my father, who still considers himself Japanese even after 19 years in the US, and secondly because the experiences of most Asian Americans - raised by Asian immigrants or their descendants - are not my experiences, and although my concerns and those of most AAs often overlap, there are fundamental differences in our perspectives.

When I think of myself as an Asian, I relate to to a majority culture in Japan, not a minority culture in the US; when I think of myself as an American, I relate to a majority culture in the US - which is not to say that I don't relate to AAs at all, just that I don't consider myself a minority in the US because I'm Asian. However when I think of myself as a biracial person I do consider myself a minority, in both Japan and the US. Most of the time I identify as biracial, because it would be pretty shortsighted to identify as White in a country that percieves me to be Asian or Asian in a country that percieves me as Haafu or American (re: White).

Does that make any sense? Does anyone have a different take on things?

[BeTheReds]

I'm Korean.

Anyway.. what is it you're trying to ask? I don't understand.

[kimpossible]

I don't know what the hell I am anymore. And that's the truth.

[BeTheReds]

I kinda see what you are saying.

I relate more to Koreans in Korea or Koreans who have newly arrived in the USA than I do to Koreans who have lived their whole lives in the USA.

And I certainly don't want to associate myself with most of the White people who make their way to ASia. A lot of them are DORKS!

[YuheiCarreau]

Originally posted by BeTheReds@Feb 9 2003, 07:32 PM
I'm Korean.

Anyway.. what is it you're trying to ask? I don't understand.
The first part of my question is: In America, do you identify more with AAs, Asian nationals, or biracial people? Correct me if I'm wrong about this, but you, despite being half White and having been raised in the US, seem to identify more with Koreans than KAs, other AAs, Whites, or Americans.

The second part is: do you consider yourself a minority in the US, or do you think of yourself as part of the majority (assuming you're part White)? If you do consider yourself a minority, do you think that your situation is more similar to that of AAs, or to that of non-US citizens? If you're in Asia, do you consider yourself part of the Asian majority, the non-Asian minority, or something else?

Then again, you could just be like HH and defy categorization :P

[kimpossible]

Originally posted by YuheiCarreau@Feb 9 2003, 07:39 PM
Then again, you could just be like HH and defy categorization :P
Oh no, I'm just pathetically lost. There's a difference. :blink:

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by Hello_Hapa@Feb 9 2003, 10:43 PM
Oh no, I'm just pathetically lost. There's a difference. :blink:
no you're just being sinofied! chinese by injection, baby!!! :D

ok sorry. don't kick my ass. carry on with the discussion. this is interesting because in many ways, i think those asian americans who are not mixed have much more in common with mixed people in america (whether or not they identify themselves as asian in any part at all) than asian people in asia.

[YuheiCarreau]

Relate... That's the word I should've used, identify sounds so pretentious...

[AliBabaIncorporated]

Originally posted by YuheiCarreau@Feb 9 2003, 10:39 PM
The first part of my question is: In America, do you identify more with AAs, Asian nationals, or biracial people?
See rank title. I feel very little identification with AAs. I'm sick of being stereotyped by them. Primarily I identify with Asian FOBs and some 1.5-gen kids.

The second part is: do you consider yourself a minority in the US, or do you think of yourself as part of the majority (assuming you're part White)? If you do consider yourself a minority, do you think that your situation is more similar to that of AAs, or to that of non-US citizens?

In general I don't really think about it. I don't experience difficulty with English language or unfamiliarity with social instituations, the two most obvious troubles non-US citizens have in dealing with this country. And my situation is unlike most AAs I meet. So I identify with the people I can relate well to, not necessarily the people who share a common life experience with me, who just aren't enough that I could spend all my life hanging out with them.

If you're in Asia, do you consider yourself part of the Asian majority, the non-Asian minority, or something else?

Differs from country to country. In HK once I kicked my accent I was part of the majority. In China everyone thought I was an HKer cuz of the way I dressed and my accent in Mandarin, but basically I was still Chinese and thus a member of the majority. Malaysia's harder. I'm treated like a local by the Chinese, but Malays are never sure what to do with me. A lot of are incredibly happy to hear me speaking even broken-ass Malay until they figure out I'm Chinese, at which point they get pissed. But I don't have a sense of being a "minority" cuz I know I got lots of peepz pretty much like me around all over the place.

Japan's the first place I ever felt like I'm just getting stereotyped all the time from all sides, a lot of the time I stuck really closely to the few Chinese students I could find cuz I got sick of Japanese and whites boxing me in as a white guy while at the same time AAs boxed me in as yet another hapa back in the motherland in search of his heritage.

[kimpossible]

Originally posted by BeTheReds@Feb 9 2003, 07:26 PM
A lot of them are DORKS!
Coming from the guy in a SANTA HAT!!! Yu Jin likes puri kura!! He probably reads girly romance manga too. And drinks gogo cha.. and... and...

Oh wait, professionalism and keeping on topic. Well, when I think about myself I can't think of myself as un-asian but I don't think of myself as an Asian or expect Asians to treat me like an Asian whether foreign born or American born.

mixed race Japanese: they don't know anything about Chinese culture so that leaves a gap between myself and them.

Japanese Americans: ditto about Chinese culture plus they often have weird ideas about Japan and sometimes become born again Asians.

Japanese-Japanese: don't matter because I'm a whitey to them. That's all I'll ever be, but I get along fairly well with most Japanese. Haven't had any hateful or stressful situtions with Japanese. Except people I'm related to.

ABC: Depends on the ABC and how American they are culturally and if they're born again.

Chinese-Chinese: Usually get along pretty well but have had some bad situations with a few. Will only elaborate if asked.

Other Asians: Don't really know any.

[BeTheReds]

Originally posted by YuheiCarreau@Feb 10 2003, 03:39 AM


Then again, you could just be like HH and defy categorization :P


Okay, how about "Possible dual citizen of the United States and the Republic of Korea of partial Korean and White descent living and working in Japan."



I tend relate to people who have the same interests as me, like video games, or pro sports. My closest american friends are a white guy and a chinese guy.

I do identify more with Koreans in terms of identity and thinking and stuff. A lot of them don't want to identify with me at first, but hey, that's life.

Korean Americans, that is ABKs, I have never been able to get close to after elementary school.

Whites.. well some I identify with, some I don't. It depends on their interests more than anything else.

Americans.. Well, yea, I am an American. I might sound anti-American at times because of the current government, but above anything else I think people deserve to be left in peace to pursue whatever they want, as long as it doesn't hurt anyone.

[BeTheReds]

Originally posted by Hello_Hapa@Feb 10 2003, 04:32 AM
Coming from the guy in a SANTA HAT!!! Yu Jin likes puri kura!! He probably reads girly romance manga too. And drinks gogo cha.. and... and...

Empty your cache, I got rid of that avatar already, tho yes, I must admit, I like purikura. As for manga, I haven't read one in years, with the exception of a few pages out of GOLGO 13 in the staff bathroom the other day. I don't know what gogo-cha is...

What kinds of Dorks I am talking about is like those white dudes who you find taking Asian studies because they are attracted to the exoticness of "The Orient" and its culture. Those weird gothy nerds with taoist medalians round their necks. Pot smoking incense burning yoga practitioners and a poster of ho chih minh on their walls. Anime Otaku, asiaphiles, etc... Those make up the majority of white people here in asia.

There are rare occasions where I do meet the occasional cool white dude, but he is usually a friend of my asian friends. I just can't relate to a lot of white guys who are over here thinking around every corner is a new cultural experience, and that they are in a land of exotic mystery waiting to be discovered. Or when they gripe about culture being this way or that way, or being so different than the USA. The only thing I can relate to is no central heating, and no dryers. That's pretty much it. I'm pretty well adjusted here.

[YuheiCarreau]

Originally posted by SunWuKung@Feb 9 2003, 09:59 PM
no you're just being sinofied! chinese by injection, baby!!! :D

ok sorry. don't kick my ass. carry on with the discussion. this is interesting because in many ways, i think those asian americans who are not mixed have much more in common with mixed people in america (whether or not they identify themselves as asian in any part at all) than asian people in asia.
Uh-huh. I've also found that a lot of AAs grow up identifying more with the White culture around them than their parents' culture. I was joking with my friends that out of the four of us (me, two Taiwanese Americans, and an Indian American) it's ironic that I'm the most overtly Asian.

[YuheiCarreau]

Originally posted by AliBabaIncorporated@Feb 9 2003, 10:23 PM
See rank title. I feel very little identification with AAs. I'm sick of being stereotyped by them. Primarily I identify with Asian FOBs and some 1.5-gen kids.
Yeah, seeing your thing was one of the reasons I started this thread. I like it almost as much as Rice Crackah!


I should add that my experience with AAs are the opposite of yours; in HS, all my friends were White or Jewish, all the kids in my school were WASPs or Jews, and I was Asian. In my school in Cambridge I was the American, with White being implied as I didn't fit in with the stereotypical FOB Japanese. Here at Wash U, almost all the kids I hang out with are AAs, and finally I can just be biracial, not the stand-in for 'other'; however, even though I hang out with almost all AAs, they're all culturally apathetic and not at all into Azn Pride or whatever.

Interestingly, although Japanese-in-America give me flak all the time, Japanese people I meet in Japan have never been a problem.

[tapestrybabe]

see... when it comes to the term asian american.... i just always related it to just being an asian living in america... and nothing more than that... its just recently i'm learning this divide... and the different categories asians are put into... and the various reasons why ppl identify with such and such group...

but anyways, as an asian american... or an asian living in america... i like to believe that i dont stereotype of what an asian is suppose to look or act like...

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by Hello_Hapa@Feb 9 2003, 11:32 PM
Well, when I think about myself I can't think of myself as un-asian but I don't think of myself as an Asian or expect Asians to treat me like an Asian whether foreign born or American born.
you are indeed very confused hahahah but that's ok you know we love you

[BeTheReds]

You pretty much have to not expect anything.

How you identify yourself is up to you, but how others identify you is not up to you.

You can't expect everyone to treat you as one of their in-group.
You also can't expect everyone to treat you as one of their out-group.

You have to be prepared for all the negativity without it making you blind to positivity.



I met a KA recently, and I thought he was gonna be one of those people who shunned me, like all other KAs... but we actually connected and we are discussing some serious personal stuff right now. Had I let my predjudice towards KAs based on the usual reactions that they have to me, then I wouldn't have him as my friend, and for that I am glad.

[kimpossible]

Originally posted by BeTheReds@Feb 9 2003, 08:46 PM
Originally posted by Hello_Hapa@Feb 10 2003, 04:32 AM
Coming from the guy in a SANTA HAT!!! Yu Jin likes puri kura!! He probably reads girly romance manga too. And drinks gogo cha.. and... and...

Empty your cache, I got rid of that avatar already, tho yes, I must admit, I like purikura. As for manga, I haven't read one in years, with the exception of a few pages out of GOLGO 13 in the staff bathroom the other day. I don't know what gogo-cha is...

What kinds of Dorks I am talking about is like those white dudes who you find taking Asian studies because they are attracted to the exoticness of "The Orient" and its culture. Those weird gothy nerds with taoist medalians round their necks. Pot smoking incense burning yoga practitioners and a poster of ho chih minh on their walls. Anime Otaku, asiaphiles, etc... Those make up the majority of white people here in asia.

There are rare occasions where I do meet the occasional cool white dude, but he is usually a friend of my asian friends. I just can't relate to a lot of white guys who are over here thinking around every corner is a new cultural experience, and that they are in a land of exotic mystery waiting to be discovered. Or when they gripe about culture being this way or that way, or being so different than the USA. The only thing I can relate to is no central heating, and no dryers. That's pretty much it. I'm pretty well adjusted here.
I know. I was joking with you. You were supposed to join in and give me shit in return.

[kimpossible]

Originally posted by SunWuKung@Feb 9 2003, 11:56 PM
you are indeed very confused hahahah but that's ok you know we love you
Well to get serious for a moment, this is background on what I mean. Let's see if this makes more sense.

My mom was born and raised in Japan because my GI grandfather knocked up my grandmother. Yes, yes, let the angry AA haters line up around the block. People like us poison the precious Asian blood lines. He was demoted for associating with the enemy and sent back to the US, highly encouraged to forget both my grandmother and their child. My grandmother was disowned, going from wealth to poverty and shame. Or rather she fled because her father, a doctor, was hellbent on aborting my mother.

Somehow my grandfather comes back years later to retrieve them but they stay in Japan for a while first. The point is that my mother was raised born in Japan and raised Japanese, just under some of the worst social circumstances possible.

Years later, my mother marries my father and has me. My father was military and for my entire early childhood was stationed elsewhere. I was raised almost entirely by my mother; this is in stark contrast to my sister, who had much more influence from either both our parents or just my dad. She and I are very culturally different.

My point is this: whether or not I am genetically very Japanese, my cultural upbringing was. And I don't mean we went to festivals or did things that allow for a joyful experience learning about Japanese culture or appreciating it. I think I learned or inherited mainly the worst of it. I'm not enamored with Japan or Japanese culture. I think a lot of it sucks to be honest but that's where some of my family is and Japanese is what they speak. It's important for me to keep in touch with them.

School was hard for me socially. Academically I was straight A student, received awards and won contests. But I wasn't trained to socialize with American children. Most of my American socialization I learned through schoolkids and television. And then came the ching-chong noises and Go Back to China! years. Every damn year I would try to play hooky on Pearl Harbor Day because I didn't want to go to Social Studies. Every damn year I'd have the teacher ask me what I thought of Pearl Harbor because I was Japanese and then every kid in the class turns around expectantly at me with quite a few pulling up the ends of their eyes and bucking out their teeth.

If I had a nickel for every time I was a chink, jap, gook, got the ching-chong noises or told to go back to my country/China, I'd be a rich woman. Sometimes it was more physical. I've been in confrontations that ended bloody because some kid wanted to beat up the chink and what they saw me as was chink. I remember once I was shoved out of a line at school by the white kids because it was the 'White' line.

Then adolesence and young adulthood. Suddenly, these same guys that would most likely tell me to go back to China now want a piece of China. Puberty changed what was foreign and hated in me to exotic and sexual. It's like I said before, I had to be careful of the guys that would see me as asiaphile training wheels. Test to see if they want the real thing.

So let's close the chapter on life to adolesence and cut to the present. I'm not a seasoned veteran at living in Asia but spent some time living abroad and not like the average foreigner but with family. The hardest thing for me to cope with was the change in how people saw me; white. Up until my early 20s I've had to deal with issues almost identical to full blooded Asian Americans. To some extent, I identify with those issues. Most likely that's the reason I came to YW. For the past 5+ years, I've had to go through a phase that was almost humiliating. In an Asian country, most people will assume I can't understand anything but English and talk about me as if I'm not in the room. They'll always ask if I need a spoon despite the fact that they've seen that I'm adept at not just using chopsticks but chopstick ettiquette. If I don't like something Asian, they'll assume it's because I'm white and not because it might be my personal taste.

Especially after going to HK, I understand what Eric has said about being shoved in the foreigner box. That made the trip to HK all the more worth it because I get what he says and now I'm aware of it. (It's a bit different in Taiwan).

The conclusion I've come to is this: I can't fight my nature and the nature of others. My life has not turned out such that I can comfortably understand and be accepted in a single culture. Neither am I likely to reside within one country or culture for the rest of my life. But the die is cast and I must find a happy medium or it will drive me insane. There was only one solution possible, I had to become more flexible and find the joys and comfort of what my life has become.

I cannot help that my upbringing was heavily influenced by the culture my mother was raised in. My formative years can't be rewritten. Neither can I alter the affect of the influence of the country or culture I was raised in, which is American. The same goes for my adult life. I joke about being a sinophile but the truth is I couldn't find Taiwan on a map eight years ago. In fact, I had this nice crappy attitude about Chinese in general I got from my Japanese family. But now I literally cannot remember what it was like to not be able to understand any Mandarin and all American Chinese food now sucks. There's a lot more to it but I can't help be sarcastic.

Genetically speaking, I'm about 60-70% white, 25% Japanese and a little funky extra who knows what thrown in. My formative upbringing was heavily Japanese influenced, my schooling and adolesence American and the family of my adult life is Taiwanese. I've had the racist experience many AAs have had and can relate culturally to them on many issues, but I'm not AA. Part of my true nature is very Japanese, but I'm not Japanese. My household is Chinese/Taiwanese, but I'm not Chinese.

And white? I don't know what the 'white' experience is. I don't know what it's like to have both parents white. I don't know what it's like to look at an Asian or Asian culture as exotic and foreign rather than familiar. More importantly I don't feel like I belong with or would even want to belong to white American culture. Do I have white friends? Sure but when I look at the average white guy I see on the street how do I know he's not one of the many that pulled his eyes up and bucked his teeth out or fetishes Asian women?

What it all boils down to is that I'm comfortable with who I am, where I am and my life in general. I have to live in too many places with very different cultures to get twisted up about how every last person views me. I can't wear a badge that says "I'm somewhat culturally and genetically Asian" for every person who meets me to see. There are pitfalls I need to be aware of, like being stuck in the foreigner box, but I think I'm up to the challenge.

So what I said before, that I don't see myself as unasian but don't expect either AA or Asians to treat me like an Asian means I can't alter either my DNA or cultural influence but I am highly aware of the differences between myself and fully blooded Asians whether ABA or not. It's unreasonable to expect all people to understand me or my life perfectly. It's my job to lend them understanding and to be a stronger person for it.

[maldito]

I think it would be disrespectful for me to call myself an Asian American

I've never used the term "____ - American" when I identify myself. I find it unnecessary, not unless I go overseas and feel the need to make people understand that my ethnicity is one thing and my nationality is another.

the experiences of most Asian Americans - raised by Asian immigrants or their descendants - are not my experiences

True. In my own experience I can't relate to those Filipinos who are from the Phils. as much as I do w/ Filipinos descendants of immigrants. And more so, I do relate to Filipinos descendants of immigrants to Hawaii and more so if they are of the same ethnic group.

When I think of myself as an Asian, I relate to to a majority culture in Japan, not a minority culture in the US

Hmm, I never really thought about this. I mean, I thought I was Filipino and relate to the culture and it differs for other Filipinos whether they are from Hawaii like myself, or from the continental u.s. or from the Phils. So when I say I am Asian (which isn't a lot of the time since I'm usually specific), I relate to all those of the same ethnicity, whether they're from the US or not.

However when I think of myself as a biracial person I do consider myself a minority, in both Japan and the US. Most of the time I identify as biracial, because it would be pretty shortsighted to identify as White in a country that percieves me to be Asian or Asian in a country that percieves me as Haafu or American (re: White).

For me as well as most people in Hawaii, we never considered ourselves minority. We know that we are mixed and we see ourselves as that and can relate to all of our ethnic cultures. For me personally, it's not difficult at all to relate to one side vs. the other in any type of situation. I am who I am and whether people accept that or see me differently is their thing, not mine.

[YuheiCarreau]

Originally posted by Hello_Hapa@Feb 10 2003, 12:45 PM
So let's close the chapter on life to adolesence and cut to the present. I'm not a seasoned veteran at living in Asia but spent some time living abroad and not like the average foreigner but with family. The hardest thing for me to cope with was the change in how people saw me; white. Up until my early 20s I've had to deal with issues almost identical to full blooded Asian Americans. To some extent, I identify with those issues. Most likely that's the reason I came to YW. For the past 5+ years, I've had to go through a phase that was almost humiliating. In an Asian country, most people will assume I can't understand anything but English and talk about me as if I'm not in the room. They'll always ask if I need a spoon despite the fact that they've seen that I'm adept at not just using chopsticks but chopstick ettiquette. If I don't like something Asian, they'll assume it's because I'm white and not because it might be my personal taste.

...

Genetically speaking, I'm about 60-70% white, 25% Japanese and a little funky extra who knows what thrown in. My formative upbringing was heavily Japanese influenced, my schooling and adolesence American and the family of my adult life is Taiwanese. I've had the racist experience many AAs have had and can relate culturally to them on many issues, but I'm not AA. Part of my true nature is very Japanese, but I'm not Japanese. My household is Chinese/Taiwanese, but I'm not Chinese.

And white? I don't know what the 'white' experience is. I don't know what it's like to have both parents white. I don't know what it's like to look at an Asian or Asian culture as exotic and foreign rather than familiar. More importantly I don't feel like I belong with or would even want to belong to white American culture. Do I have white friends? Sure but when I look at the average white guy I see on the street how do I know he's not one of the many that pulled his eyes up and bucked his teeth out or fetishes Asian women?
That's what I'm talking about - the way others percieve you affects the way you percieve yourself. I can definitely relate to a lot of your experiences. It's difficult to sort out the bad judgments people make of you from the good ones (which are the ones you should adopt). I think my exeriences differ from most of the Hapas, and even most of the AAs I've met in that I was exposed to the "you are White/American" mentality as well as the "you are Asian" one.

It's interesting that you say you can't relate to Whites at all. Even though I try to draw on White American culture, and even though I can usually understand the perspective that White people have, as I get older I find I'm less and less willing to see things from that perspective; or rather, only from that perspective.

[BeTheReds]

Originally posted by Hello_Hapa@Feb 10 2003, 05:13 PM

I know. I was joking with you. You were supposed to join in and give me shit in return.
Oh.. well then.. uh..

You'd make a good bond woman.

Your name would be Hapa Gudlay.

um...


Yea I'm not really good at that since you have not given me anything to make fun of other than liking star trek, and well i like it too...

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by BeTheReds@Feb 11 2003, 08:32 PM
Originally posted by Hello_Hapa@Feb 10 2003, 05:13 PM

I know. I was joking with you. You were supposed to join in and give me shit in return.
Oh.. well then.. uh..

You'd make a good bond woman.

Your name would be Hapa Gudlay.

um...


Yea I'm not really good at that since you have not given me anything to make fun of other than liking star trek, and well i like it too...
you can call her a trophy wife

[kimpossible]

Originally posted by SunWuKung@Feb 11 2003, 10:12 PM
Originally posted by BeTheReds@Feb 11 2003, 08:32 PM
Originally posted by Hello_Hapa@Feb 10 2003, 05:13 PM

I know. I was joking with you. You were supposed to join in and give me shit in return.
Oh.. well then.. uh..

You'd make a good bond woman.

Your name would be Hapa Gudlay.

um...


Yea I'm not really good at that since you have not given me anything to make fun of other than liking star trek, and well i like it too...
you can call her a trophy wife
It's times like this I want to abuse my mod power.