Rep. says Japanese-Americans' internment was OK

[achtungbaby]

From USA Today: (http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2003-02-05-camps-coble_x.htm)

HIGH POINT, N.C (AP) — A congressman who heads a homeland security subcommittee said on a radio call-in program that he agreed with the internment of Japanese-Americans during World War II.

Rep. Howard Coble, R-N.C., made the remark Tuesday on WKZL-FM when a caller suggested Arabs in the United States should be confined.

Coble, chairman of the Judiciary Subcommittee on Crime, Terrorism and Homeland Security, said he didn't agree with the caller but did agree with President Franklin D. Roosevelt, who established the internment camps.

"We were at war. They (Japanese-Americans) were an endangered species," Coble said. "For many of these Japanese-Americans, it wasn't safe for them to be on the street."

Like most Arab-Americans today, Coble said, most Japanese-Americans during World War II were not America's enemies.

Still, Coble said, Roosevelt had to consider the nation's security.

"Some probably were intent on doing harm to us," he said, "just as some of these Arab-Americans are probably intent on doing harm to us."

[Rogmok]

WTF? is this guy serious??
i'm stunned...

[achtungbaby]

Unfuckingbelievable. If Trent Lott was removed as Senate Majority Leader because of his indirect support of Strom Thurmond's racist legacy, then what the hell should happen to this good ol' boy?

[achtungbaby]

I'll try and find out where people can send in a complaint, cuz I sure as hell would like to see Rep. Coble removed from his subcommittee chair position.

He's made a mockery of the Congress by displaying his own startling ignorance towards history, sought to undermine that little constitutional right called due process, and has further drawn a line in the sand between us and them.

"Some probably were intent on doing harm to us..."

What a fucking moron. Moving to the Rant Room...

[VV o n g B a]

WOW. i hope this guy gets torn a new asshole by responses to his comment.

[ism]

Is that the full text of the conversation pertaining to internment? In one part he cites the reason as protecting the Japanese-Americans by removing them from the rest of society, but in the end he says it was justified because some were intent on doing harm in a wartime situation, but he does not support internment of Arab-Americans now. So does that mean if we go to war he would support internment of Arab-Americans because "some probably were intent on doing harm to us?" Is there a chunk of this guy's speech missing, because it seems he either made a mistake or it's out of context.

[achtungbaby]

Originally posted by ism@Feb 5 2003, 02:05 PM
Is there a chunk of this guy's speech missing, because it seems he either made a mistake or it's out of context.
I'm looking for the full text of it now, but regardless -- what proper context could the support of internment be put it?

[blue hoodie]

Looks like it's time for a beat down

*gets his nunchucks*

Let us know when you find a proper place where we can complain about this shit.

[moschikat]

:o

WTF!? OMFL?!

oh wait - i see, he's on Bush's "homeland security" clique. that explains everything. :rolleyes: stupidity at its finest. :HH:

[blue hoodie]

Found his e-mail addy on angryasianman.com

howard.coble@mail.house.gov

I suggest we all start writing a little something something to him.

[achtungbaby]

A place to start:

F. James Sensenbrenner, Jr. (R-Wis.) is the Chair of the House Committee of the Judiciary, of which Crime, Terrorism and Homeland Security is a subcommittee.

The Honorable F. James Sensenbrenner, Jr.
2449 Rayburn House Office Building
Washington, D.C. 20515-4905
Telephone: (202) 225-5101
sensenbrenner@mail.house.gov

The Judiciary Committee Members (Democrats):

John Conyers, Jr. (ranking member, MI)
John.Conyers@mail.house.gov

Barney Frank (MA)

Howard Berman (CA)
howard.berman@mail.house.gov

Rick Boucher (VA)
Ninthnet@mail.house.gov

Jerold Nadler (NY)
Jerrold.Nadler@mail.house.gov

Robert Scott (VA)
bobby.scott@mail.house.gov

Melvin L. Watt (North Carolina)

Zoe Lofgren (California)

Sheila Jackson-Lee (Texas)

Maxine Waters (California)

Martin T. Meehan (Massachusetts)

William Delahunt (Massachusetts)
william.delahunt@mail.house.gov

Robert Wexler (Florida)

Tammy Baldwin (Wisconsin)

Anthony D. Weiner (New York)
weiner@mail.house.gov

Adam B. Schiff (California)

[angel nympho]

I wonder what the radio show host had to say about this on the air.

[lethal]

From the SF Chronicle (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/news/archive/2003/02/05/national1209EST0584.DTL). It qoutes the story above then goes on to say

Rep. Mike Honda, D-Calif., a Japanese-American who spent his early childhood with his family in an internment camp during World War II, said he spoke with Coble on Wednesday to learn more about his views.

"I'm disappointed that he really doesn't understand the impact of what he said," Honda said. "With his leadership position in Congress, that kind of lack of understanding can lead people down the wrong path."

The Japanese American Citizens League asked Coble to apologize and said he should be removed from his committee chairmanship.

"We are flabbergasted that a man who supports racial profiling and ethnic scapegoating" chairs the subcommittee, the group's national executive director, John Tateishi, said in a statement Wednesday.

The Council on American-Islamic Relations demanded that Coble explain his remarks. Spokesman Ibrahim Hooper said the comments were "particularly disturbing."

In 1988, President Reagan signed a bill authorizing reparations of $20,000 for each surviving camp veteran.

[BaiginLong]

Originally posted by blue hoodie@Feb 5 2003, 04:47 PM
Looks like it's time for a beat down

*gets his nunchucks*

Let us know when you find a proper place where we can complain about this shit.
*grabs katana*

:pissed:

[BeTheReds]

I believe it is time for he Mafia to take care of, or at least contribute to taking care of this one too.

[BaiginLong]

you know they should rename it the YW Triad or Yakuza or Tong
this is Yellowworld you know
it makes more sense

[AltimaGTR]

*Sigh* another foolish man who has just committed career suicide... And yeah during WW2 none of the German-Americans were even considered getting the same treatment as the JA's! Wut a Fucktard! :angry:

[ism]

Does anyone honestly think he's going to get even half the shit Trent Lott got from his statements, that while targetted towards all minorities, were perceived to be more anti-Black than anything else?

[tvbdude]

you know they should rename it the YW Triad or Yakuza or Tong
this is Yellowworld you know
it makes more sense

I agree. We ain't white, why should we use mafia

[achtungbaby]

Originally posted by BeTheReds@Feb 5 2003, 09:54 PM
I believe it is time for he Mafia to take care of, or at least contribute to taking care of this one too.
I've contacted someone from the JACL on this. They'll be releasing an official statement soon and I'll get more info as soon as I hear.

[achtungbaby]

Originally posted by tvbdude@Feb 6 2003, 01:52 AM
you know they should rename it the YW Triad or Yakuza or Tong
this is Yellowworld you know
it makes more sense

I agree. We ain't white, why should we use mafia
It's an inside joke :D

I'm actually kind of surprised more people haven't commented on this thread. At issue isn't just some isolated, ignorant comment from a legislator -- he's the chair for the subcommittee on Homeland Defense and there's a clear reason why he's choosing to take calls on the radio about how he feels about the past...to prime us for the possible future.

[MellowDrama]

[insert certain tool's comment here]

:rolleyes:

[DonDaBomb2]

Originally posted by achtungbaby@Feb 6 2003, 02:00 AM
At issue isn't just some isolated, ignorant comment from a legislator -- he's the chair for the subcommittee on Homeland Defense and there's a clear reason why he's choosing to take calls on the radio about how he feels about the past...to prime us for the possible future.
I agree. This is much more disturbing because it comes from a key figure in Homeland Defense. I've been really weary of this whole Dept of Homeland Defense and what they plan on doing with our civil rights.

[Shuriken]

Originally posted by ism@Feb 6 2003, 08:02 AM
Does anyone honestly think he's going to get even half the shit Trent Lott got from his statements, that while targetted towards all minorities, were perceived to be more anti-Black than anything else?
Trent Lott's remarks became an issue because George W. Bush made them an issue. And Bush made them an issue because he wanted to replace Lott with someone closer to himself, like Bill Frist. If Bush had stood beside Lott, the controversy would have probably died down, as indicated by Tom Daschle's dismissive response to Lott's comments soon after he made them. Lott's position as Majority Leader wasn't really cast in doubt until Bush made his condemnatory speech a couple weeks later.

Good to see the constructive reaction to this new set of remarks on this thread, with the addresses and all. Myself, I feel kind of talked-out about the internment just now... :^|

[kasia]

some more info on the guy:

http://www.house.gov/coble/RepCoble.jpg

here's his bio. (http://www.house.gov/coble/)


Contact Information

EMAIL: howard.coble@mail.house.gov (When sending email, if you would like a written response, please include your U.S. Postal mailing address. Thank you.)

Office Staff

Asheboro
Suite 101
241 Sunset Avenue
Asheboro, NC 27203-5658
Phone: 336.626.3060
Fax: 336.626.4533
Rebecca Redding
District Representative


High Point
Suite 200-B
155 Northpoint Avenue
High Point, NC 27262-7723
Phone: 336.886.5106
Fax: 336.886.8740
Nancy Mazza
District Representative


Greensboro
2102 North Elm Street, Suite B
Greensboro, NC 27408-5100
Phone: 336.333.5005
Fax: 336.333.5048
Chris Beaman, Constituent Services, Office Manager
Kathy Benfield, District Representative
Amanda Martin Page, Staff Assistant
Jan Scott, Community Liaison


Salisbury
2727D Old Concord Road
Salisbury, NC 28144-8388
Phone: 704.645.8082
Fax: 704.645.0896
Terri Welch, District Representative

Graham
124 Elm Street
P.O. Box 812
Graham, NC 27253-0812
Phone: 336.229.0159
Fax: 336.228.7974
Janine Osborne, District Representative


Washington, DC
2468 Rayburn House Office Building
Washington, DC 20515-3306
Phone: 202.225.3065
Fax: 202.225.8611
Missy Branson, Chief of Staff
Amanda Hamilton, Legislative Assistant
Jane Miller, Chief Caseworker, Legislative Assistant
Brad Jones - Legislative Assistant
Anna Sagely, Legislative Director
Vera Shear, Director of Administration
Mary Elizabeth Tillman, Executive Assistant
E.J. Brown, Constituent Liaison, Web Administrator

[kasia]

here's what we can do:

1) send him an email informing him of the 1984 Korematsu decision which found that there was NO evidence showing that Japanese-Americans posed as a threat to our national security (i am writing a form email for your convenience right now)

2) call up his staff and ask whether they are familiar with the 1984 Korematsu decision and, if so, why Coble would nonetheless conclude that certain Japanese-Americans were "intent on doing harm to us". Ask also what he means by "us", because presumably many Japanese-Americans were also United States citizens.

edit: perhaps it's better not to communicate with coble, but rather just seek to have him removed...

[kasia]

Bits and pieces of the Korematsu decision for those of you who are interested:

Executive Order No. 9066 was issued on February 19, 1942 authorizing the Secretary of War and certain military commanders "to prescribe military areas from which any persons may be excluded as protection against espionage and sabotage."

On March 2, 1942 General DeWitt issued Public Proclamation No. 1 pursuant to Executive Order 9066. The proclamation stated that "the entire Pacific Coast ... is subject to espionage and acts of sabotage, thereby requiring the adoption of military measures necessary to establish safeguards against such enemy operations."

It was uncontroverted at the time of conviction that petitioner was loyal to the United States and had no dual allegiance to Japan. He had never left the United States. He was registered for the draft and willing to bear arms for the United States.

writ of coram nobis

The Commission on Wartime Relocation and Internment of Civilians was established in 1980 by an act of Congress. It was directed to review the facts and circumstances surrounding Executive Order 9066 and its impact on American citizens and permanent resident aliens; to review directives of the United States military forces requiring the relocation and, in some cases, detention in internment camps of American citizens, including those of Japanese ancestry; and to recommend appropriate remedies. Commission on Wartime Relocation and Internment of Civilians Act, Pub.L. No. 96-317, § 2, 94 Stat. 964 (1980).

In general, the Commission concluded that at the time of the issuance of Executive Order 9066 and implementing military orders, there was substantial credible evidence from a number of federal civilian and military agencies contradicting the report of General DeWitt that military necessity justified exclusion and internment of all persons of Japanese ancestry without regard to individual identification of those who may have been potentially disloyal.

The Commission found that military necessity did not warrant the exclusion and detention of ethnic Japanese. It concluded that "broad historical causes which shaped these decisions [exclusion and detention] *1417 were race prejudice, war hysteria and a failure of political leadership."

As a result, "a grave injustice was done to American citizens and resident aliens of Japanese ancestry who, without individual review or any probative evidence against them, were excluded, removed and detained by the United States during World War II." Personal Justice Denied at 18.

The substance of the statements contained in the documents and the fact the statements were made demonstrate that the government knowingly withheld information from the courts when they were considering the critical question of military necessity in this case. A series of correspondence regarding what information should be included in the government's brief before the Supreme Court culminated in two different versions of a footnote that was to be used to specify the factual data upon which the government relied for its military necessity justification. The first version read as follows:
The Final Report of General DeWitt (which is dated June 5, 1943, but which was not made public until January 1944) is relied on in this brief for statistics and other details concerning the actual evacuation and the events that took place subsequent thereto. The recital of the circumstances justifying the evacuation as a matter of military necessity, however, is in several respects, particularly with reference to the use of illegal radio transmitters and to shore-to-ship signalling by persons of Japanese ancestsry, in conflict with information in the possession of the Department of Justice. In view of the contrariety of the reports on this matter we do not asks the Court to take judicial notice of the recital of those facts contained in the Report. Petitioner's Exhibit AA, Memorandum of John L. Burling to Assistant Attorney General Herbert Wechsler, September 11, 1944 (emphasis added).
After revision, it read:
The Final Report of General DeWitt (which is dated June 5, 1943, but which was not made public until January 1944) hereinafter cited as Final Report, is relied on in this brief for statistics and other details concerning the actual evacuation and the events that took place subsequent thereto. The recital in the Final Report of circumstances justifying the evacuation as a matter of military necessity, however, is in several respects, particularly with reference to the use of illegal radio transmitters and shore-to-ship signalling by persons of Japanese ancestry, in conflict with the views of this Department. We, therefore, do not ask the Court to take judicial*1418 notice of the recital of those facts contained in the Report.
Id. (emphasis added).

The footnote that appeared in the final version of the brief merely read as follows:
The Final Report of General DeWitt (which is dated June 5, 1943, but which was not made public until January 1944), hereinafter cited as Final Report, is relied on in this brief for statistics and other details concerning the actual evacuation and the events that took place subsequent thereto. We have specifically recited in this brief the facts relating to the justification for the evacuation, of which we ask the Court to take judicial notice, and we rely upon the Final Report only to the extent that it relates to such facts.

It stands as a caution that in times of distress the shield of military necessity and national security must not be used to protect governmental actions from close scrutiny and accountability. It stands as a caution that in times of international hostility and antagonisms our institutions, legislative, executive and judicial, must be prepared to exercise their authority to protect all citizens from the petty fears and prejudices that are so easily aroused.

[achtungbaby]

North Carolina Lawmakers Under Fire For Arab Remarks
Lawmakers Say Remarks Were Not Intended As Insult

POSTED: 10:28 a.m. EST February 6, 2003

HIGH POINT, N.C. -- Two lawmakers from North Carolina are taking some heat for remarks seen as a slur against Arab-Americans.

Congressman Howard Coble told a radio talk show this week that he agreed with the internment of Japanese Americans during World War II, but also said he doesn't agree with a caller who thought Arabs in the United States should be locked up today.

Fellow Republican Sue Myrick, commenting on domestic security threats, said "Look at who runs all the convenience stores across the country."

Both lawmakers said their remarks were not intended as an insult to any ethnic or religious group. But a spokesman for the Council on American-Islamic Relations calls it disturbing.

http://www.wtov9.com/sh/news/stories/nat-n...206-090232.html (http://www.wtov9.com/sh/news/stories/nat-news-196094520030206-090232.html)

[achtungbaby]

Coble says internment remark meant to illustrate segregation

The Associated Press

HIGH POINT, N.C. AP) - A North Carolina congressman who said he agreed with internment of Japanese-Americans during Word War II was trying to make a point about segregation, his spokeswoman said Thursday.
Rep. Howard Coble, R-N.C., made the remark Tuesday during a radio call-in show when a caller suggested Arabs in the United States should be confined. Coble said he didn't agree that Arab-Americans should be confined. Coble heads a homeland security subcommittee and his comment angered both advocates for Arab-American and Japanese-Americans.

"I think he was trying to make a comparison that 60 years ago we weren't a multicultural society," said Coble spokeswoman Missy Branson.

"We weren't as tolerant and understanding of other cultures as we are today. He was trying to make the point that the internments were as much for the Japanese-Americans own safety as for national security.

"He didn't mean it in any way discriminatory to Japanese-Americans at all. I think he's made that clear."

Coble, chairman of the Judiciary Subcommittee on Crime, Terrorism and Homeland Security, said he didn't agree with the caller about Arab-Americans, but did agree with President Franklin D. Roosevelt, who established the internment camps.

"We were at war. They (Japanese (Americans)- were an endangered species," Coble said. "For many of these Japanese-Americans, it wasn't safe for them to be on the street."

Like most Arab-Americans today, Coble said, most Japanese-Americans during World War II were not America's enemies.

Still, Coble said, Roosevelt had to consider the nation's security.

"Some probably were intent on doing harm to us," he said, "just as some of these Arab-Americans are probably intent on doing harm to us."

Rep. Mike Honda, D-Calif., a Japanese-American who spent his early childhood with his family in an internment camp during World War II, said he spoke with Coble on Wednesday to learn more about his views.

"I'm disappointed that he really doesn't understand the impact of what he said," Honda said. "With his leadership position in Congress, that kind of lack of understanding can lead people down the wrong path."

The Japanese American Citizens League asked Coble to apologize and said he should be removed from his committee chairmanship.

The Council on American-Islamic Relations demanded that Coble explain his remarks. Spokesman Ibrahim Hooper said the comments were "particularly disturbing."

[SunWuKong]

i just talked to Missy Branson (chief of staff) on the phone.
some of the questions i asked:

what did Coble mean that some Japanese Americans were intent on doing harm to "us". what does "us" mean? she said he meant America in the time period of world war 2, with the racial atmosphere. i asked if he's aware that Japanese Americans are Americans. she said yes, and just continued on her tangent about how America was in a racist atmosphere.

i asked if he has any evidence that Japanese Americans were intent on harm. she said no. and i asked if they were aware that it was declared in 1984 that there's no evidence that Japanese Americans were intent on harm. at this point she just kept saying that i was taking it out of context. i asked if Coble thinks that Japanese Americans were intent on harm. she said that with the information we have today, he doesn't think so. i said that only a few days ago he said that they were intent on harm. more frustrated comments about how i'm taking it out of context followed. she said that they did not know back then that Japanese Americans were intent on harm or not. so i said, "but that's not what he said", and asked, "why would he say what he said just a few days ago, if he thinks that they did not know if they were intent on harm back then, and that he doesn't now think they were intent on harm? is it the practice of your office to speculate?"

i also asked if he thinks it was necessary to take away all of Japanese Americans' properties in order to protect them. at this point she started asking me how old i am, and i answered that it's not relevant.


at any rate, she just kept saying that i was taking it out of context, and she was getting really frustrated and yelling on the phone. that's basically it.

[kasia]

Originally posted by SunWuKung@Feb 6 2003, 12:27 PM
i just talked to Missy Branson (chief of staff) on the phone.
some of the questions i asked:

what did Coble mean that some Japanese Americans were intent on doing harm to "us". what does "us" mean? she said he meant America in the time period of world war 2, with the racial atmosphere. i asked if he's aware that Japanese Americans are Americans. she said yes, and just continued on her tangent about how America was in a racist atmosphere.

i asked if he has any evidence that Japanese Americans were intent on harm. she said no. and i asked if they were aware that it was declared in 1984 that there's no evidence that Japanese Americans were intent on harm. at this point she just kept saying that i was taking it out of context. i asked if Coble thinks that Japanese Americans were intent on harm. she said that with the information we have today, he doesn't think so. i said that only a few days ago he said that they were intent on harm. more frustrated comments about how i'm taking it out of context followed. she said that they did not know back then that Japanese Americans were intent on harm or not. so i said, "but that's not what he said", and asked, "why would he say what he said just a few days ago, if he thinks that they did not know if they were intent on harm back then, and that he doesn't now think they were intent on harm? is it the practice of your office to speculate?"

i also asked if he thinks it was necessary to take away all of Japanese Americans' properties in order to protect them. at this point she started asking me how old i am, and i answered that it's not relevant.


at any rate, she just kept saying that i was taking it out of context, and she was getting really frustrated and yelling on the phone. that's basically it.
any person who can make the chief of staff yell into the phone is my hero :P

[amietron]

Originally posted by kasia@Feb 6 2003, 10:28 AM
http://www.house.gov/coble/RepCoble.jpg
Y'know in Monster's Inc., there's that scary lady monster? Doesn't he sorta look like her?

[Napoleon Chynamite]

I'm gonna try callin' later today but if not I'll call tomorrow...hopefully I can use 1-800-COLLECT so I won't hafta pay.... :confused: but like Kasia told me I don't think that would work. SWK I hope I can piss her off more than you can.

[kasia]

bah. apple and i both tried calling. missy branson is not taking calls. wuss.

if he is head of the homeland security committee, we as citizens have a right to know his position on the japanese internment. i, for one, am very interested in finding out if he was misquoted or quoted out of context.

[applehead]

hey everyone, if you do call, let them know what it's in regards to.

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by FrozenPizza@Feb 6 2003, 04:15 PM
I'm gonna try callin' later today but if not I'll call tomorrow...hopefully I can use 1-800-COLLECT so I won't hafta pay.... :confused:  but like Kasia told me I don't think that would work.  SWK I hope I can piss her off more than you can.
well i want to make this clear - my intent was not to "piss her off". i wanted to know where Coble stands on this issue. he seems to contradict himself.

[applehead]

it seems like you were just asking questions that she was unable to answer.
it was her own fault for getting pissed off.

[Shuriken]

I've been giving this some thought. Can anyone bring Rep. Bob Matsui and Sen. Daniel Inouye into this controversy in order to question Cobel's fitness to head such an important Congressional committee?

[kasia]

JACL Condemns Rep.Coble's Statement Endorsing Japanese American Internment

Calls Him Unfit to Serve as Chair of the Subcommittee on Crime, Terrorism and Homeland Security

Washington, DC - The Japanese American Citizens League (JACL), the nation's oldest and largest Asian Pacific American civil rights organization, condemns remarks made by Rep. Howard Coble, (R-NC-6) during a radio call-in program yesterday on WKZL-FM in North Carolina where he explicitly supported President Roosevelt's decision to incarcerate the Japanese American community during World War II.

FOX News and the Associated Press reported that Rep. Coble made the comments in response to a suggestion that Arab Americans be similarly incarcerated. Rep. Coble disagreed that the Arab American community should be interned, but asserted that, while the internment of Japanese Americans was for their own protection, "Some probably were intent on doing harm to us, just as some of these Arab-Americans are probably intent on doing harm to us."

Commented JACL National President Floyd Mori, "Rep. Coble's comments are outrageous and uneducated. To suggest that the government locked up 120,000 innocent people for their own protection is not only patronizing and offensive, but it is patently incorrect. The government has recognized and apologized for their error of sixty years ago and we expect Rep. Coble to do so as well."

"It is astonishing that yet another political leader would publicly embrace the racist policies of the 1940s, and we are flabbergasted that a man who supports racial profiling and ethnic scapegoating chairs the House Subcommittee on Crime, Terrorism and Homeland Security," added John Tateishi, JACL National Executive Director. "The JACL calls on the House Republican leadership to remove him immediately from this position before he does further harm."

For the story on Rep. Coble's remarks please visit: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,77677,00.html

[rakovlam]

Originally posted by AltimaGTR@Feb 6 2003, 01:58 AM
*Sigh* another foolish man who has just committed career suicide... And yeah during WW2 none of the German-Americans were even considered getting the same treatment as the JA's! Wut a Fucktard!  :angry:
Undue Process: The Untold Story of America's German Alien Internees (1997), by Arnold Krammer.

[achtungbaby]

Originally posted by Shuriken@Feb 6 2003, 02:59 PM
I've been giving this some thought. Can anyone bring Rep. Bob Matsui and Sen. Daniel Inouye into this controversy in order to question Cobel's fitness to head such an important Congressional committee?
I know that Mike Honda's already spoken with Cobel. The key now is getting the JACL to take the lead on this, it's obviously an issue dear to them. I mean, why issue redress if the country was justified in interning them?

It's fun if you want to harass Cobel's office but I wouldnt' be surprised if they stop taking calls from peeps outside of his district anyway. Besides, I doubt if Cobel will remove himself from the position anyway.

[deez nuts]

I'll give them a shout tomorrow. If I get thru and it's not accomplishing anything, I'll just vent off on the geezer and threaten to take away his meds. I know a couple of my Japanese co workers tried calling today, but couldn't get through.

[SunWuKong]

woah, so a lot of people are trying to call. i feel lucky that i got through! :)
but i have to admit that it was at kasie's urging that i called. since i'm already in DC, it was a local call for me. (but not the same area code though).

[ism]

If he's not taking calls, and it's not like he's going to step down of his own volition, then what else should be done? It's been suggested that blogs and smartmobs initiated the Lott controversy, but of course Bush had an agenda and that's what really did him in. I mean, who should we be contacting to put some pressure on whoever can make him step down?

[achtungbaby]

Originally posted by ism@Feb 6 2003, 08:29 PM
If he's not taking calls, and it's not like he's going to step down of his own volition, then what else should be done? It's been suggested that blogs and smartmobs initiated the Lott controversy, but of course Bush had an agenda and that's what really did him in. I mean, who should we be contacting to put some pressure on whoever can make him step down?
F. James Sensenbrenner, Jr. (R-Wis.) is the Chair of the House Committee of the Judiciary, of which Crime, Terrorism and Homeland Security is a subcommittee.

The Honorable F. James Sensenbrenner, Jr.
2449 Rayburn House Office Building
Washington, D.C. 20515-4905
Telephone: (202) 225-5101
sensenbrenner@mail.house.gov

The Judiciary Committee Members (Democrats):

John Conyers, Jr. (ranking member, MI)
John.Conyers@mail.house.gov

I'd say these are good places to start. I'll be writing up a statement for YW tonight...

[angel nympho]

Originally posted by kasia@Feb 6 2003, 09:40 PM
if he is head of the homeland security committee, we as citizens have a right to know his position on the japanese internment. i, for one, am very interested in finding out if he was misquoted or quoted out of context.
Word. In my comm class today we had a discussion about this article. Word. It was a good thing he said what he said because now that it's out in the open, we can discuss and decide whether or not he should be able to keep his position.

And he's not the head of the homeland security committee.. He's the head of one of homeland security's subcommitties. ...not that it matters.

[kasia]

NATIONAL ASIAN PACIFIC AMERICAN BAR ASSOCIATION (NAPABA)

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE CONTACT: Julie D. Soo

February 6, 2003 (415) 538-4429

ASIAN PACIFIC AMERICAN LAWYERS CONDEMN
STATEMENTS SUPPORTING JAPANESE AMERICAN INTERNMENT

The National Asian Pacific American Bar Association, representing over 40,000 Asian Pacific American attorneys, condemns remarks made by Representative Howard Coble, (R-NC-6) during a radio call-in program this week. As an organization concerned not only with the civil rights of Asian Pacific Americans, but ALL Americans, NAPABA views the recent comments by Congressman Coble justifying the imprisonment of 120,000 Japanese Americans during World War II and linking that justification to Arab Americans as offensive and ignorant.

NAPABA President Ruthe Catolico Ashley states, “Congressman Coble has turned history upside down by suggesting that Japanese Americans were placed in concentration camps for their own safety.” Dale Minami, noted civil rights lawyer who led the legal team that led to reparations for those interned, states that Congressman Cobles argument is both incredible and disingenuous. Japanese Americans were forced into desolate camps where the guns of the guard towers pointed into the camps, not toward the outside. A Congressional Commission in 1983 also concluded that Japanese Americans were imprisoned not for their own safety but because of racism, war hysteria and the lack of political leadership. These same conditions exist today and Congressman’s Coble’s statements only serve to inflame hatred and prejudice against Arab Americans.

To imprison innocent people because of their ethnic heritage and color of skin is to punish victims for the malice of the perpetrators. The rule of law and the rights guaranteed by our Constitution demand that Americans be protected not penalized for their race and ancestry. In this time of increasing tension, Congressman Coble’s comments are deeply offensive, irresponsible and reflect a deep ignorance of history.

For Congressman Coble to now implicitly adopt the discredited policy of wholesale incarceration against Arab and Muslim reflects the very same repressed racial animosity revealed by Trent Lott’s recent comments. We believe that all Americans should call for his immediate resignation from his committee assignment that includes protecting America from terrorism and providing homeland security. His comments indicate he is simply not fit to hold such a responsible office when the lives of all citizens of every ethnic heritage are in his hands.

[wylin]

The Internment was a sign of the times, it probably wont be repeated because america has matured... But it is an effective tool for protecting america's shores from terrorism, if america ever decided to intern the Arabs and Muslims i wouldnt oppose it, because it makes my life safer. Just move all em enemy nationals (iraqi's, Northkoreans, etc) into the camps...its not like they'll be there forever.

[kasia]

um...perhaps you were not aware, will, but japanese-americans were interned. those who pledged their loyalty to the united states had their property taken away from them and were thrown into concentration camps. an investigation conducted by own own government decades later revealed that there was no probative evidence that any japanese-american posed as a security threat. for coble to say that the must have been some japanese-americans that were intent on harming us, then, is pure speculation. to base policy regarding national security on speculation - and racism, at that - is irresponsible and immoral. if he fails to see that, he may very well make the same mistake with arab-americans. and we can't risk that.

[achtungbaby]

Originally posted by wylin@Feb 6 2003, 10:17 PM
The Internment was a sign of the times, it probably wont be repeated because america has matured... But it is an effective tool for protecting america's shores from terrorism, if america ever decided to intern the Arabs and Muslims i wouldnt oppose it, because it makes my life safer. Just move all em enemy nationals (iraqi's, Northkoreans, etc) into the camps...its not like they'll be there forever.
So although America has matured, you wouldn't be opposed to it regressing back to immaturity?

[wylin]

Originally posted by achtungbaby@Feb 6 2003, 10:28 PM
So although America has matured, you wouldn't be opposed to it regressing back to immaturity?
nope, because to its more important to do: whatever it takes to keep the country safe! And if internment is an effective, logical, and availible choice to help protect the country and i wouldnt oppose it.

[kasia]

will, i wouldn't feel safe in this country if arab-americans were interned without substantial proof that any of them posed as a threat to our national security. it would only leave me to wonder what this country might do to me if we went to war with china.

[Adaon]

Originally posted by wylin@Feb 6 2003, 10:41 PM
nope, because to its more important to do: whatever it takes to keep the country safe! And if internment is an effective, logical, and availible choice to help protect the country and i wouldnt oppose it.
that's a new one for me......a government FOR the people, BY the people, OF the people organized by a document that states clearly in the what it considers the "Bill of Rights" in the 9th Amendment, that the government "shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people."

It nowhere says in times of war or conflict, any group of people can be contained "to help protect the country."

I really didn't appreciate the fact that Representative Cobel didn't consider that the Japanese people had no say in how they were to "be protected"....which was just government smoke blown into people's faces to cover the whole lot of civil rights injustices the American government pulled on the Japanese Americans during World War II. It's written in the documents that the federal government is BASED upon and run by states that NO level of government would incur onto the individual rights of citizens. Hell, even people suspected of committing crimes have their Miranda Rights and the right of due process now.

But to set aside a specific group and to "suspect" their intentions of "harm" towards our country is out of the question. Granted, even if there ARE such people there set upon causing acts of terrorism and other such harmful activities, though I don't doubt it, they STILL have all the rights of suspects of crimes.

And to just punish people w/o due process or even ANNOUNCING the "crime/suspicion" is worse than how a would be criminal would be treated. To get a whole nation to start reacting on pure fear/suspicions is the main goal of terrorists....to adversely affect people's lives....

To be judge, jury and executioner of a whole group of people just by our fears is immorale and no worse than converting the whole nation into a mob looking for a scapegoat.

[lethal]

Originally posted by wylin@Feb 7 2003, 01:41 AM
nope, because to its more important to do: whatever it takes to keep the country safe! And if internment is an effective, logical, and availible choice to help protect the country and i wouldnt oppose it.
So if the U.S. went to war with China, you'd support the internment of all ethnic Chinese-Americans, including yourself and all your family members, to keep the rest of the country safer?

[lethal]

Congressman Coble should know better, especially in the wake of the Lott debacle.

I called the radio station, WKZL in Winston Salem requesting a copy of the tape of the show. We'll see if I can get one. This is their web site (http://www.1075kzl.com/).

Perhaps we can see what the context of the comments really is. Ms. Branson has a lot of explaining to do. Well done SWK!

A useful ally may be John Edwards, Senator from NC and presidential aspiree. If he makes this one of his campaign points...that his party is the party of all people and the Republicans are the party of Lott and Coble racists...well...not to that extreme, but if we could get him to our side...make the Dems make an issue out of this...that would generate some noise.

[achtungbaby]

Originally posted by lethalweapon@Feb 7 2003, 12:20 AM
A useful ally may be John Edwards, Senator from NC and presidential aspiree. If he makes this one of his campaign points...that his party is the party of all people and the Republicans are the party of Lott and Coble racists...well...not to that extreme, but if we could get him to our side...make the Dems make an issue out of this...that would generate some noise.
I think it's a very good idea to use the Democrats as much as possible. They're chompin at the bit to take on Republican leadership.

[achtungbaby]

Originally posted by Adaon@Feb 7 2003, 12:01 AM
that's a new one for me......a government FOR the people, BY the people, OF the people organized by a document that states clearly in the what it considers the "Bill of Rights" in the 9th Amendment, that the government "shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people."

It nowhere says in times of war or conflict, any group of people can be contained "to help protect the country."

I really didn't appreciate the fact that Representative Cobel didn't consider that the Japanese people had no say in how they were to "be protected"....which was just government smoke blown into people's faces to cover the whole lot of civil rights injustices the American government pulled on the Japanese Americans during World War II. It's written in the documents that the federal government is BASED upon and run by states that NO level of government would incur onto the individual rights of citizens. Hell, even people suspected of committing crimes have their Miranda Rights and the right of due process now.

But to set aside a specific group and to "suspect" their intentions of "harm" towards our country is out of the question. Granted, even if there ARE such people there set upon causing acts of terrorism and other such harmful activities, though I don't doubt it, they STILL have all the rights of suspects of crimes.

And to just punish people w/o due process or even ANNOUNCING the "crime/suspicion" is worse than how a would be criminal would be treated. To get a whole nation to start reacting on pure fear/suspicions is the main goal of terrorists....to adversely affect people's lives....

To be judge, jury and executioner of a whole group of people just by our fears is immorale and no worse than converting the whole nation into a mob looking for a scapegoat.
Well said.

[wylin]

Originally posted by lethalweapon@Feb 7 2003, 12:13 AM
So if the U.S. went to war with China, you'd support the internment of all ethnic Chinese-Americans, including yourself and all your family members, to keep the rest of the country safer?


Unlikely to be interned, since my family is taiwanese from a seperate country than the Red chinese and has a long lienage of both American and Kuoming Dong government service.

If it is to help america win a conflict jail us taiwanese and the red chinese.... and even if i got jailed if given the chance,i'd be off to fight the Communists cuz i am taiwanese and support the taiwan government alone, not the corrupt Stalinist governement of china...That also raises the point that, i do not see people in china as the same class as me, because they have been educated and brainwashed by 50 years of Mao/ stalinist dogma... they are in a different stage of economic/ spritual/ philosophical developement compared to the capitalist citzens and decendants of those who live on the island of taiwan.

[Andrew]

There's a petition (http://www.petitiononline.com/coble/petition.html) online if you'd like to call for Rep. Coble's removal from the House Subcommittee on Terrorism and Homeland Security. Feel free to distribute the link.

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by wylin@Feb 7 2003, 11:42 AM
Originally posted by lethalweapon@Feb 7 2003, 12:13 AM
So if the U.S. went to war with China, you'd support the internment of all ethnic Chinese-Americans, including yourself and all your family members, to keep the rest of the country safer?


Unlikely to be interned, since my family is taiwanese from a seperate country than the Red chinese and has a long lienage of both American and Kuoming Dong government service.

If it is to help america win a conflict jail us taiwanese and the red chinese.... and even if i got jailed if given the chance,i'd be off to fight the Communists cuz i am taiwanese and support the taiwan government alone, not the corrupt Stalinist governement of china...That also raises the point that, i do not see people in china as the same class as me, because they have been educated and brainwashed by 50 years of Mao/ stalinist dogma... they are in a different stage of economic/ spritual/ philosophical developement compared to the capitalist citzens and decendants of those who live on the island of taiwan.
at the risk of going off on a tangent, will - you really are outdated on what's really on the minds of people in china today. ask them if they support communism and they would laugh in your face. in fact you could have asked them 20 years ago and they would have laughed in your face.

[Andrew]

http://modelminority.com/images/postcards/coble.gif (http://www.modelminority.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=300)

[angel nympho]

Originally posted by kasia@Feb 7 2003, 06:28 AM
um...perhaps you were not aware, will, but japanese-americans were interned. those who pledged their loyalty to the united states had their property taken away from them and were thrown into concentration camps. an investigation conducted by own own government decades later revealed that there was no probative evidence that any japanese-american posed as a security threat. for coble to say that the must have been some japanese-americans that were intent on harming us, then, is pure speculation. to base policy regarding national security on speculation - and racism, at that - is irresponsible and immoral. if he fails to see that, he may very well make the same mistake with arab-americans. and we can't risk that.
Just to play devil's advocate here... Not that I agree with internment or anything... but something like 17 of the 19 Muslim terrorists that were involved in the Sept11th thing were here in America as citizens or had similar American standing.

[angel nympho]

It's my opinion that here in America there was once something called "INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY." In going with that statement, I would rather let one criminal walk free than wrongly punish one innocent person. Internment makes no sense.... it's punishing an entire group essentially for being born the wrong color. But either way, internment is a thing of the past and regardless of whether or not this congressman believes that it could work, it won't. And there is absolutely no way it will ever happen again, even if the government favored it. The times we live in now just doesn't tolerate that kind of blatant injustice.

[wylin]

Originally posted by kasia@Feb 6 2003, 10:28 PM
um...perhaps you were not aware, will, but japanese-americans were interned. those who pledged their loyalty to the united states had their property taken away from them and were thrown into concentration camps. an investigation conducted by own own government decades later revealed that there was no probative evidence that any japanese-american posed as a security threat. for coble to say that the must have been some japanese-americans that were intent on harming us, then, is pure speculation. to base policy regarding national security on speculation - and racism, at that - is irresponsible and immoral. if he fails to see that, he may very well make the same mistake with arab-americans. and we can't risk that.
actually i helped my TA' in a class that did a nice study on the internent... but i still dont see it as a bad method... It could have been done more fairly but overall it both protected japanese from the backlash of anti-japanese sentiments, and also helped in sum small way to help keep enemy aliens or citzens from damaging anything on the west coast.

[wylin]

Originally posted by SunWuKung@Feb 7 2003, 09:11 AM
Originally posted by wylin@Feb 7 2003, 11:42 AM
Originally posted by lethalweapon@Feb 7 2003, 12:13 AM
So if the U.S. went to war with China, you'd support the internment of all ethnic Chinese-Americans, including yourself and all your family members, to keep the rest of the country safer?


Unlikely to be interned, since my family is taiwanese from a seperate country than the Red chinese and has a long lienage of both American and Kuoming Dong government service.

If it is to help america win a conflict jail us taiwanese and the red chinese.... and even if i got jailed if given the chance,i'd be off to fight the Communists cuz i am taiwanese and support the taiwan government alone, not the corrupt Stalinist governement of china...That also raises the point that, i do not see people in china as the same class as me, because they have been educated and brainwashed by 50 years of Mao/ stalinist dogma... they are in a different stage of economic/ spritual/ philosophical developement compared to the capitalist citzens and decendants of those who live on the island of taiwan.
at the risk of going off on a tangent, will - you really are outdated on what's really on the minds of people in china today. ask them if they support communism and they would laugh in your face. in fact you could have asked them 20 years ago and they would have laughed in your face.
does it really matter to me, NO. because i am not chinese... instead my people (taiwanese) and my family personally are investors in china, we dont care how they think as long as they do what task we have paid them for...but in my families personal investments we see shadows of communist indoctrination and idiocracy... we find often there are still legacies of Mao and the "cultural revolution"...that effect our buisnesses directly.

[Adaon]

Originally posted by wylin@Feb 7 2003, 09:57 AM
actually i helped my TA' in a class that did a nice study on the internent... but i still dont see it as a bad method... It could have been done more fairly but overall it both protected japanese from the backlash of anti-japanese sentiments, and also helped in sum small way to help keep enemy aliens or citzens from damaging anything on the west coast.
One of the main problems was the fact that the Japanese Internment was basically a mandate from the government that was spearheaded by a mob of Americans (uninformed American voters from the time) and a bunch of nimrods in Washington looking for scapegoats....the Japanese Americans had no choice in their internment....they either went or they were jailed for their own "safety." Either way, they were uprooted and they're a large majority of their property was basically confiscated and redistributed. So basically, you're arresting a whole ethnic group and jacking them.

[kasia]

YW NOTICE:


The Moderators of Yellowworld.org voted yesterday to put up a petition demanding the removal of Representative Howard Coble from his position as Chair of the Subcommittee of Crime, Terrorism, and Homeland Security. Our dear webmaster began working on the petition site last night, and it should be up sometime today. We will soon be requesting the help of our YW MAFIA members - and soon-to-be YW MAFIA members - to publicize this issue.

[applehead]

oh. how great that the moderators decided to do this.
and kudos to the webmater for all the work...

[princess]

well i agree that safety was an issue, but the conditions under which the Japanese Americans received this "safety" were detestable and slap in the face to human rights.

[lethal]

I informed some colleagues and faculty at school today regarding Rep. Coble's comments. They were quite shocked and ouraged. Better yet, none of them are Asian.

I think telling as many people that we personally know is a good start...spread the word...get some publicity. We need to grow the pressure as big and fast as possible.

[DragonKnight]

Passing on the info to my own message board and friends. This is sad indeed. :angry:

-Rich

[blue hoodie]

Just in case you miss it in the petition thread....

From the angry asian man....

"The JACL has created a form to contact your congress representative to voice your concern regarding Rep. Coble's views on the Japanese American internment: JACL Calls for Rep. Coble to step down as chair. (http://capwiz.com/jacl/issues/alert/?alertid=1371886&type=CO)"

OR...

Call House Speaker Hastert and Judiciary Chair Sensenbrenner and tell them what's on your mind:
Speaker's office: (202) 225-0600
Rep. Hastert's office: (202) 225-2976
Judiciary Committee: (202) 225-3951
Rep. Sensenbrenner's office: (202) 225-5101

[Josh12]

The man is not going to listen to your arguements.

also ifyou want to check out a cool website
go here http//www.crudpot.net/index.php

or for topic involving this subect

http://www.crudpot.net/viewtopic.php?t=291

:angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry:

[Josh12]

just as a fyi. I think internment camps for Arabs is absolutely retarded...

real real dumb

[kangal]

In light of the whole issue with Rep. Coble, I'd like to present a different view. Let me first off by stating that this situation differs greatly from Sen. Lott's situation. Lott's comments were bad because it shined light on a history of similar quotes and actions. He not only make the comments about Thurmond ONCE, but twice. He also has had history of speaking to white supremacy groups and etc. Coble's remarks, while horrid, did not strike me as being on the same level as Lott's. Also, the way the petition is written, it seems to suggest that Coble was well aware of the 1983 commission finding and was thumbing his nose at it. If he was on the commission, then yes, there is an issue. But, there is no evidence to even show that he knew of such a commission or its decision.

Secondly, activisim goes hand in hand with publicity. In order for this to succeed, the general public will require more of a smoking gun than just what was said on a local show in his state. I think that the Mercury News article Here (http://removecoble.yellowworld.org/more.php?id=5_0_1_0_M1) does a good job of showing a trend of ignorance on Coble. I am just hesitant to immediatly jump down the throat of anyone who may have stuck his foot in his mouth. The success of the Civil Rights movement occurred because the general public was disgusted by the scenes of carnage in Alabama. The movement today has lost alot of steam because the NAACP is seen by the public is being too reactionary. Right now, the Asian movement is still relatively young, and fresh. I hope that the battles we fight are good battles. Wen Ho Lee was an excellent example as it got national attention, and the judge even apologized on behalf of America for the government's actions.

My point is that in terms of the public eye, if Coble turns out be like Lott, then we need to attack without restraint. But, if he has just one isolated incident, it would be too reactionary and turn away the public opinion. When there is mention of Asian activism in the news, I want people to think "hmmm, this is interesting and disturbing" instead of a collective groan of "here we go again."

[VV o n g B a]

while your argument makes sense on a rational level, it feels weak in the gut. its like u see an enemy that is implacable and u turn tail and run. understandable. but regretable.

[achtungbaby]

http://removecoble.yellowworld.org/removecoble.jpg

I didn't get a chance to read all of Kangal's post, but if I may be so bold:

1) The difference between Senator Lott and Congressman Coble is that the Congressman is in a unique position to directly act out on his silly, stupid ideas.
2) What Wong said.

[Shuriken]

Originally posted by angel nympho@Feb 7 2003, 05:37 PM
But either way, internment is a thing of the past and regardless of whether or not this congressman believes that it could work, it won't. And there is absolutely no way it will ever happen again, even if the government favored it. The times we live in now just doesn't tolerate that kind of blatant injustice.
I wish I could be as confident of this as Sarah is. But I think that if internment happened before, it could happen again. And everyone needs to keep reminding this country that mass, blanket internment based solely on race or ethnicity is an injustice and always was an injustice. The fact that some people are even contemplating and discussing mass internment for Arabs — rather than rejecting the idea outright — seems very disturbing.

[blue hoodie]

Read this on one of the comments from the petition...

"During the course of WW2, a total of 10 people were conviced of spying for the Japanese Empire. All 10 were caucasian."

Anyone know if this is true? And I don't know what upsets me more, coble's comments or the fact that there is only like 300 signatures on the petition. If we can't support our own community and causes, then who will?

[achtungbaby]

Originally posted by Shuriken@Feb 9 2003, 09:43 AM
I wish I could be as confident of this as Sarah is. But I think that if internment happened before, it could happen again. And everyone needs to keep reminding this country that mass, blanket internment based solely on race or ethnicity is an injustice and always was an injustice. The fact that some people are even contemplating and discussing mass internment for Arabs — rather than rejecting the idea outright — seems very disturbing.
I would have been much more at ease if the Congressman had merely rejected internments altogether without having to placate his 'tolerant' constituents.

[achtungbaby]

Originally posted by blue hoodie@Feb 9 2003, 01:18 PM
Read this on one of the comments from the petition...

"During the course of WW2, a total of 10 people were conviced of spying for the Japanese Empire. All 10 were caucasian."

Anyone know if this is true? And I don't know what upsets me more, coble's comments or the fact that there is only like 300 signatures on the petition. If we can't support our own community and causes, then who will?
I don't know about the 10 people being white, but I do know that no Japanese American was ever convicted of treason or espionage.

As I mentioned in RBJ...patience, my son:) The ball is always a little slow to get rolling, but once it does, it's like a tidal wave.

[blue hoodie]

Originally posted by achtungbaby@Feb 9 2003, 01:59 PM
As I mentioned in RBJ...patience, my son:) The ball is always a little slow to get rolling, but once it does, it's like a tidal wave.
I hope so too. It's just that I've been iming my friends about the petition, but none of them seems to really care or have even signed it. Makes me wonder if our community will ever have solidity.

[BaiginLong]

Originally posted by achtungbaby@Feb 9 2003, 03:59 PM
As I mentioned in RBJ...patience, my son:)  The ball is always a little slow to get rolling, but once it does, it's like a tidal wave.
*waits for tsunami to wash Coble out of office*

[achtungbaby]

Originally posted by blue hoodie@Feb 9 2003, 02:35 PM
I hope so too. It's just that I've been iming my friends about the petition, but none of them seems to really care or have even signed it. Makes me wonder if our community will ever have solidity.
I hear ya, I've encountered the same difficulty. I guess sometimes people are just lazy.

As with most issues, there is a small window of opportunity here, folks. Let's take advantage of it while pressure is on our side...

[BaiginLong]

Originally posted by achtungbaby@Feb 9 2003, 04:42 PM
I hear ya, I've encountered the same difficulty. I guess sometimes people are just lazy.

As with most issues, there is a small window of opportunity here, folks. Let's take advantage of it while pressure is on our side...
working trying to rally up support but I dun know that many ppl here that I can count on since I am in Bush-ville (his ranch isn't too far from Waco)
hmm maybe I should visit when he drops in...... ;)

[kimpossible]

Originally posted by wylin@Feb 7 2003, 10:02 AM
Originally posted by SunWuKung@Feb 7 2003, 09:11 AM
Originally posted by wylin@Feb 7 2003, 11:42 AM
Originally posted by lethalweapon@Feb 7 2003, 12:13 AM
So if the U.S. went to war with China, you'd support the internment of all ethnic Chinese-Americans, including yourself and all your family members, to keep the rest of the country safer?


Unlikely to be interned, since my family is taiwanese from a seperate country than the Red chinese and has a long lienage of both American and Kuoming Dong government service.

If it is to help america win a conflict jail us taiwanese and the red chinese.... and even if i got jailed if given the chance,i'd be off to fight the Communists cuz i am taiwanese and support the taiwan government alone, not the corrupt Stalinist governement of china...That also raises the point that, i do not see people in china as the same class as me, because they have been educated and brainwashed by 50 years of Mao/ stalinist dogma... they are in a different stage of economic/ spritual/ philosophical developement compared to the capitalist citzens and decendants of those who live on the island of taiwan.
at the risk of going off on a tangent, will - you really are outdated on what's really on the minds of people in china today. ask them if they support communism and they would laugh in your face. in fact you could have asked them 20 years ago and they would have laughed in your face.
does it really matter to me, NO. because i am not chinese... instead my people (taiwanese) and my family personally are investors in china, we dont care how they think as long as they do what task we have paid them for...but in my families personal investments we see shadows of communist indoctrination and idiocracy... we find often there are still legacies of Mao and the "cultural revolution"...that effect our buisnesses directly.
well, i'm kinda in the same situation as you describe will, family investing in the mainland and most either born in province or heavily involved with the KMT, but i'm also a realist. US government isn't going to 'sort the chinks' if you get my drift if it came to internment during a US vs. China war.

I mean, we're in a country where if you tell the average American 'Taiwan' they usually respond 'Thailand?' And c'mon, you get pissed off when the government regulates CO2 emissions on your car. You honestly expect me to believe you'd happily give up all your possessions, including your cars, to Uncle Sam?

On the other hand, I'm not too worked up about Coble's statements on their own. I think he makes a piss poor representative to not give something as serious as internment some lengthy consideration before making comments about it, and he has this horribly backward idea of which Americans deserve a full set of rights. It's about what I expect all the old white boy politicians, especially Republicans, to think on their own even if they don't say it out loud. However, there is a real and visceral danger present in our pre-war jittery American public. Uncertainty and fear are in the air and Americans are used to feeling safe. Even the very liberal might be a little too easy to turn on a fellow American (Arab in this case) in order to have an increased perception of safety. To me, the path that Coble's statement and senitments sets us down is the true danger rather than the direct statement against Japanese-Americans. My understanding is the man was elected by Americans to represent their combined interests and rights. Not sort out who gets more or less.

[BeTheReds]

As for the issue itself, I think it is perfectly okay to lock up noncitizens if you are at war with their countries. I know many people will disagree with me, but think about it. If the USA went to war with France, do you think it would be unfair to lock up all French citizens?

If you intern one American citizen without proving that he is guilty of doing something, then it is evil and WRONG!

[Napoleon Chynamite]

Originally posted by BeTheReds@Feb 9 2003, 04:29 PM
As for the issue itself, I think it is perfectly okay to lock up noncitizens if you are at war with their countries. I know many people will disagree with me, but think about it. If the USA went to war with France, do you think it would be unfair to lock up all French citizens?

If you intern one American citizen without proving that he is guilty of doing something, then it is evil and WRONG!
?? But weren't the majority (if not all) of the ethnic Japanese interned of American citizen status??

I thought the issue was whether or not the Japanese internment-camps during WWII was justifiable or not, but maybe this thread went off on another tangent, as they tend to do.

[YuheiCarreau]

Originally posted by Hello_Hapa@Feb 9 2003, 06:19 PM
I mean, we're in a country where if you tell the average American 'Taiwan' they usually respond 'Thailand?'
Yeah, and even then they couldn't find it on a map...


On the other hand, I'm not too worked up about Coble's statements on their own. I think he makes a piss poor representative to not give something as serious as internment some lengthy consideration before making comments about it, and he has this horribly backward idea of which Americans deserve a full set of rights. It's about what I expect all the old white boy politicians, especially Republicans, to think on their own even if they don't say it out loud.

IMO Coble suffers from cultural myopia. 'Old White Boys' were raised to believe that everything America does is right and to define Americans as White. Even when incidents of racism committed by the US government are pointed out to him, he sweeps it under the rug by saying "that was a different time" or "we were doing it for their protection", because he cannot conceive of America having done something wrong and cannot recognize that the perspectives and attitudes of White people do not dictate the perspectives and attitudes of non-Whites.

[BeTheReds]

Originally posted by FrozenPizza@Feb 10 2003, 12:30 AM

?? But weren't the majority (if not all) of the ethnic Japanese interned of American citizen status??

I thought the issue was whether or not the Japanese internment-camps during WWII was justifiable or not, but maybe this thread went off on another tangent, as they tend to do.
Yes, you are right. And that is why that internment was wrong.


I did go off on a tangent. Sorry!

[YuheiCarreau]

Originally posted by BeTheReds@Feb 9 2003, 06:29 PM
As for the issue itself, I think it is perfectly okay to lock up noncitizens if you are at war with their countries. I know many people will disagree with me, but think about it. If the USA went to war with France, do you think it would be unfair to lock up all French citizens?

If you intern one American citizen without proving that he is guilty of doing something, then it is evil and WRONG!
Imprisoning foreign citizens without provocation on their part is wrong. Deportation is usually what's done.

[kimpossible]

Then I may have a different idea of being at war. I don't see it as fighting every last citizen of that nation but more of the respective governments butting heads over resources and power. Call it separating civilian versus military if you wish.

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by Hello_Hapa@Feb 9 2003, 07:19 PM
My understanding is the man was elected by Americans to represent their combined interests and rights. Not sort out who gets more or less.
and that's the scary thing about it. those two things you mentioned are not necessarily mutually exclusive. no offense to anybody who might be offended by this... but he does represent north carolina...

[lethal]

Originally posted by SunWuKung@Feb 9 2003, 09:54 PM
and that's the scary thing about it. those two things you mentioned are not necessarily mutually exclusive. no offense to anybody who might be offended by this... but he does represent north carolina...
Not just North Carolina, but some of the hick parts of North Carolina.

[angel nympho]

Originally posted by Shuriken@Feb 9 2003, 05:43 PM
I wish I could be as confident of this as Sarah is.  But I think that if internment happened before, it could happen again.  And everyone needs to keep reminding this country that mass, blanket internment based solely on race or ethnicity is an injustice and always was an injustice.  The fact that some people are even contemplating and discussing mass internment for Arabs — rather than rejecting the idea outright — seems very disturbing.
Do you really think a majority of American citizens will support internment, even in a state of nation-wide panic? I really doubt it... I don't think the government will favor a program like that especially after all the efforts (or something) made to spread the message through the public that discrimination and fear aren't the answer after september 11th. They wouldn't push a program that the citizens of at least many if not most of America's larger and more diversely populated areas will outrightly oppose. Watch one day's worth of programming on MTV even, I really don't think America's youth and the younger generations would EVER be able to live with that kind of bullshit going on.. I really really doubt that internment would ever fly in America as we know it today. Have a little faith in the nation you're living in.

I don't think many people are contemplating internment of Arabs. This guy, Coble, whatever, was pretty clear that he was not in favor of internment for Arabs. I think the subject came up when he refuted a caller who did favor the idea.

[BeTheReds]

Originally posted by YuheiCarreau@Feb 10 2003, 12:43 AM
Originally posted by BeTheReds@Feb 9 2003, 06:29 PM
As for the issue itself, I think it is perfectly okay to lock up noncitizens if you are at war with their countries.  I know many people will disagree with me, but think about it.  If the USA went to war with France, do you think it would be unfair to lock up all French citizens?  

If you intern one American citizen without proving that he is guilty of doing something, then it is evil and WRONG!
Imprisoning foreign citizens without provocation on their part is wrong. Deportation is usually what's done.
Deportation to where? The country you are fighting against? So that they can help your enemy? Yea that's smart.

[BeTheReds]

Originally posted by Hello_Hapa@Feb 10 2003, 12:54 AM
Then I may have a different idea of being at war. I don't see it as fighting every last citizen of that nation but more of the respective governments butting heads over resources and power. Call it separating civilian versus military if you wish.
Yes, it is all about government and power, but the government gets its power from the people it controls. While you may not be the mortal enemy of a farmer in an enemy nation, his work feeds hundreds of soldiers, who might possibly try to kill you or someone you know who goes to war.

[achtungbaby]

Originally posted by angel nympho@Feb 9 2003, 09:48 PM
Have a little faith in the nation you're living in.

I don't think many people are contemplating internment of Arabs. This guy, Coble, whatever, was pretty clear that he was not in favor of internment for Arabs. I think the subject came up when he refuted a caller who did favor the idea.
I don't have as much faith in government because I don't have that much faith in people, period. We're probably a few terrorist attacks away from doing something at least close to this. I'd like to think that our government wouldn't repeat its idiot mistakes of the past, but the government is really only as good as its people. I never thought 61% of California would approve Prop. 187 because of its overt racism but you take away people's money and sense of security, then people are apt to do really dumb things.

Further -- do I trust in the INS? Hell nah.

[YuheiCarreau]

Originally posted by BeTheReds@Feb 10 2003, 12:15 AM
Originally posted by YuheiCarreau@Feb 10 2003, 12:43 AM
Originally posted by BeTheReds@Feb 9 2003, 06:29 PM
As for the issue itself, I think it is perfectly okay to lock up noncitizens if you are at war with their countries. I know many people will disagree with me, but think about it. If the USA went to war with France, do you think it would be unfair to lock up all French citizens?

If you intern one American citizen without proving that he is guilty of doing something, then it is evil and WRONG!
Imprisoning foreign citizens without provocation on their part is wrong. Deportation is usually what's done.
Deportation to where? The country you are fighting against? So that they can help your enemy? Yea that's smart.
Well, the majority of those people are civilians who pose zero risk to the US. Deporting them to France costs less than imprisoning them in the US; also, it's not like they send them back without checking them out. A Japanese family lived in my town during WW2, and when Pearl Harbor was attacked they were shipped off to San Francisco (I think) where they went through some kind of screening procedure before being sent back to Japan. Although civilians are imprisoned or killed in wars, most countries try to present the image that the military is their prime target, and the civilians were caught in the crossfire. Otherwise invading forces would have to completely lock down every town they came across.

[BeTheReds]

Originally posted by YuheiCarreau@Feb 10 2003, 06:39 AM
Originally posted by BeTheReds@Feb 10 2003, 12:15 AM
Originally posted by YuheiCarreau@Feb 10 2003, 12:43 AM
Originally posted by BeTheReds@Feb 9 2003, 06:29 PM
As for the issue itself, I think it is perfectly okay to lock up noncitizens if you are at war with their countries. I know many people will disagree with me, but think about it. If the USA went to war with France, do you think it would be unfair to lock up all French citizens?

If you intern one American citizen without proving that he is guilty of doing something, then it is evil and WRONG!
Imprisoning foreign citizens without provocation on their part is wrong. Deportation is usually what's done.
Deportation to where? The country you are fighting against? So that they can help your enemy? Yea that's smart.
Well, the majority of those people are civilians who pose zero risk to the US. Deporting them to France costs less than imprisoning them in the US; also, it's not like they send them back without checking them out. A Japanese family lived in my town during WW2, and when Pearl Harbor was attacked they were shipped off to San Francisco (I think) where they went through some kind of screening procedure before being sent back to Japan. Although civilians are imprisoned or killed in wars, most countries try to present the image that the military is their prime target, and the civilians were caught in the crossfire. Otherwise invading forces would have to completely lock down every town they came across.
Okay so then what if france has a draft and there are several able bodied men in the group you are sending back? Are you still gonna let them go suit up so they can kill your soldiers?

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by angel nympho@Feb 10 2003, 12:48 AM
Do you really think a majority of American citizens will support internment, even in a state of nation-wide panic? I really doubt it... I don't think the government will favor a program like that especially after all the efforts (or something) made to spread the message through the public that discrimination and fear aren't the answer after september 11th. They wouldn't push a program that the citizens of at least many if not most of America's larger and more diversely populated areas will outrightly oppose. Watch one day's worth of programming on MTV even, I really don't think America's youth and the younger generations would EVER be able to live with that kind of bullshit going on.. I really really doubt that internment would ever fly in America as we know it today. Have a little faith in the nation you're living in.

I don't think many people are contemplating internment of Arabs. This guy, Coble, whatever, was pretty clear that he was not in favor of internment for Arabs. I think the subject came up when he refuted a caller who did favor the idea.
angel, i'd have to agree with AB. i'm not so optimistic about the government.

there is already some support for arab american internment amongst the people. what happens if the situation gets worse or if we faced another attack in the US? and i'm sure the younger generation of americans would oppose it, but honestly, the government is going to do what it wants to do anyway. we're not going to get a populist vote on if we go to war, or if we intern americans. in the end, these things are decided by a bunch of politicians here in DC. and don't forget we've got an administration that's drumming up paranoia in the country and around the world.

[AliBabaIncorporated]

Originally posted by BeTheReds@Feb 9 2003, 07:29 PM
As for the issue itself, I think it is perfectly okay to lock up noncitizens if you are at war with their countries. I know many people will disagree with me, but think about it. If the USA went to war with France, do you think it would be unfair to lock up all French citizens?
Let's intern the French anyway. It's a political winner. NAACP won't complain cuz they're Europeans. Homeland Security will like it cuz it makes it looks like they're willing to take drastic steps to fight terror.

If you intern one American citizen without proving that he is guilty of doing something, then it is evil and WRONG!

Trouble is, cuz of jus solis due to the present interpretation of the 14th amendment, there's no real way to intern only non-citizens ... they want to take their kids along, and a lot of their kids are citizens.

[lethal]

One major difference between now and WWII is the passage of the Civil Rights Act of 1964.

[YuheiCarreau]

Originally posted by BeTheReds@Feb 10 2003, 12:42 AM
Okay so then what if france has a draft and there are several able bodied men in the group you are sending back?  Are you still gonna let them go suit up so they can kill your soldiers?
Nations usually do a lot of posturing and name-calling before they declare war. During this time, most of the French people would've been encouraged to leave by the French embassy in the US. Allowing those remaining to leave would be a way for the US to show it's more humane (and supposedly more righteous). I can see the merit to your argument, and I don't really have a strong opinion on the matter, but it seems to me that sending civilians back to France, where the French government would have to use its resources to protect and possibly train them, still costs the US less in the short term.

[BeTheReds]

Originally posted by AliBabaIncorporated@Feb 10 2003, 06:57 AM

Trouble is, cuz of jus solis due to the present interpretation of the 14th amendment, there's no real way to intern only non-citizens ... they want to take their kids along, and a lot of their kids are citizens.
Well in those cases perhaps they should allow for some leeway. Either not jailing the parents of citizens, or whatever you have to do, as long as not a single citizen is locked up.

[achtungbaby]

Just to give everyone a brief update on this:

This morning we'll be contacting Congressman Mike Honda, Robert Matsui and David Wu, and also House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi. I doubt they'll be totally open to endorsing a campaign to remove a colleague from his chair position, but weirder things have happened.

[BeTheReds]

Originally posted by achtungbaby@Feb 10 2003, 08:40 AM
Just to give everyone a brief update on this:

This morning we'll be contacting Congressman Mike Honda, Robert Matsui and David Wu, and also House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi. I doubt they'll be totally open to endorsing a campaign to remove a colleague from his chair position, but weirder things have happened.
Again, I am not trying to trivialize your efforts, but is it possible to go after some people who are not Asian? Many White Americans would support this hands down.

[BeTheReds]

Originally posted by YuheiCarreau@Feb 10 2003, 08:01 AM
Nations usually do a lot of posturing and name-calling before they declare war. During this time, most of the French people would've been encouraged to leave by the French embassy in the US. Allowing those remaining to leave would be a way for the US to show it's more humane (and supposedly more righteous). I can see the merit to your argument, and I don't really have a strong opinion on the matter, but it seems to me that sending civilians back to France, where the French government would have to use its resources to protect and possibly train them, still costs the US less in the short term.
Perhaps war really is different now.

In WWI they fought biterly in trenches. Soldiers not only shot at each other when attacking, but also when their enemy was fleeing. The idea is that if you can kill him now, then he can't kill you.. or your allies later.

Now with smart bombs and wars that end in a matter of months, I suppose all the paperwork and implementation of an internment process would take entirely too long, as the war would have ended by the time the government was 1/2 done.

Politics and money mean nothing when there are bullets flying past you. You'd most likely want less bullets coming your way.

[lethal]

House Minority Leader Pelosi's statement (http://democraticleader.house.gov/media/releases/20030207-13-204296.asp)

Washington, D.C. - House Democratic Leader Nancy Pelosi issued the following statement today regarding comments made this week by Congressman Howard Coble (R-N.C.), in which he said he agreed with the policy to intern Japanese Americans during World War II:
"To live up to the principles on which this great nation was founded, we must stand for freedom for all Americans, in wartime as in peacetime.

"This week, a senior Republican congressman stated that he agreed with the policy to intern Japanese Americans during World War II, one the darkest periods in our nation’s history. His remarks demonstrated an appalling disregard for civil liberties and inexcusable ignorance of history. He even stated that Japanese Americans were interned for their own protection, thus attempting to turn injustice into a virtue. He then drew a disturbing parallel between Japanese Americans in the 1940s and Arab Americans today.

"In these difficult times, as we face the threat of terrorism and possible war in the Middle East, it is essential that our nation learn from the lessons of the 1940s. We must utterly reject the view that any American citizen or legal resident should be imprisoned and restricted based solely on ethnicity.

"To help educate Americans about the shameful interning of Japanese American citizens during World War II, I am honored to join Representatives Mike Honda, Robert Matsui, David Wu and many of our colleagues in calling for a National Day of Remembrance on February 19. On that date in 1942, the President authorized the internment of Japanese Americans and legal immigrants of Japanese ancestry. History has shown that this action, as well as restrictions on Americans of German and Italian ancestry, was not only wrong, it was indefensible.

"I hope Members on both sides of the aisle will join us in co-sponsoring this resolution."

[angel nympho]

Originally posted by SunWuKung@Feb 10 2003, 06:52 AM
angel, i'd have to agree with AB. i'm not so optimistic about the government.
It's not the government that I'm optimistic about. It's the nation. Society. Our MULTI-CULTURAL society. Sure there's a lot of subtle racism going on all over the world, and there's plently of blantant racism, too. But when it comes to supporting an idea this expansive and life-altering for not just those being interned, but EVERYBODY... I don't think a majority of our citizens will stand for it. Given, yeah there will always be a minority who will... but if there were enough people behind the idea that internment of Japanese American citizens was wrong... I think it'll take a lot more than Rep. Coble saying it's for the protection of all Americans to convince people otherwise.

[angel nympho]

Originally posted by BeTheReds@Feb 10 2003, 12:41 AM
Originally posted by FrozenPizza@Feb 10 2003, 12:30 AM

?? But weren't the majority (if not all) of the ethnic Japanese interned of American citizen status??

I thought the issue was whether or not the Japanese internment-camps during WWII was justifiable or not, but maybe this thread went off on another tangent, as they tend to do.
Yes, you are right. And that is why that internment was wrong.


I did go off on a tangent. Sorry!
Just a little reminder: Citizen status of those who were interned really doesn't have a hell of a lot of bearing on the reason why they were interned. Something like 17 of the 19 terrorists involved in the September 11th ordeal were either American citizens or had legitimate visas and standing to be here in the states. If it ever came down to interning Arabs or Musims or whatever their citizenship status really has no bearing.

[lethal]

Originally posted by angel nympho@Feb 10 2003, 11:52 PM
Just a little reminder: Citizen status of those who were interned really doesn't have a hell of a lot of bearing on the reason why they were interned. Something like 17 of the 19 terrorists involved in the September 11th ordeal were either American citizens or had legitimate visas and standing to be here in the states. If it ever came down to interning Arabs or Musims or whatever their citizenship status really has no bearing.
There's a huge difference between citizens and permanent residents and valid visa holders.

Citizens are protected by due process rights granted by the Constitution. Visa holders are not. I'm not sure about permanent residents.

Also, of the 19 WTC terrorists, none were U.S. citizens or LPRs. Check out the following table. Including Moussaoui, the "20th hijacker," 4 were totally illegal and the other 16 were on temporary visas.

http://www.cis.org/articles/2002/imagesP21/tab1.jpg

[angel nympho]

^-- I had a teacher tell me that a majority of them had citizenship or at least valid legal standing to be in the United States. Which... is apparently true. What I was saying is that simply being here legally does not mean you are here innocently.

[lethal]

Here legally as a visa holder is very different than in the U.S. as a citizen. Visa holders don't have the same rights as citizens or permanent residents. They can also be deported whereas citizens cannot.

Your original reminder was Citizen status of those who were interned really doesn't have a hell of a lot of bearing on the reason why they were interned.

I'd like to point out that citizenship status does matter and none of the hijackers were U.S. citizens.

The original point about the internment camps is that they interned U.S. citizens violating their due process rights for racist reasons and were clearly wrong in doing so. With Coble in charge, one can envision seeing this happen again with Arab-American U.S. citizens.

[deez nuts]

Originally posted by lethalweapon@Feb 11 2003, 12:39 AM


http://www.cis.org/articles/2002/imagesP21/tab1.jpg
Goddamn according to that chart, we mind as well have a big painted bullseye here in NY. You can't walk around NYC without seeing armed guards stationed at landmarks, hospitals, subways (especially around Grand Central and Penn Station) etc etc etc.

I feel warm and fuzzy now.

[angel nympho]

Originally posted by lethalweapon@Feb 11 2003, 01:26 PM
Here legally as a visa holder is very different than in the U.S. as a citizen. Visa holders don't have the same rights as citizens or permanent residents. They can also be deported whereas citizens cannot.

Your original reminder was

I'd like to point out that citizenship status does matter and none of the hijackers were U.S. citizens.

The original point about the internment camps is that they interned U.S. citizens violating their due process rights for racist reasons and were clearly wrong in doing so. With Coble in charge, one can envision seeing this happen again with Arab-American U.S. citizens.
I meant that citizen status may matter to us, but the government doesn't care if the people they want to oppress are citizens. My original reminder was meant to say that hiding behind a citizenship thinking nothing could happen to you is not the right way to go. So...I think we actually ARE on the same page.

[YuheiCarreau]

Originally posted by Chasiubao_Boy@Feb 11 2003, 09:20 AM
Goddamn according to that chart, we mind as well have a big painted bullseye here in NY.  You can't walk around NYC without seeing armed guards stationed at landmarks, hospitals, subways (especially around Grand Central and Penn Station) etc etc etc.

I feel warm and fuzzy now.
It's not like it hasn't happened before. No one paid attention the first time they tried to blow up the WTC; in fact, most people outside the NY area don't even remember it. People are only just beginning to take these things more seriously...

[deez nuts]

Originally posted by YuheiCarreau@Feb 11 2003, 12:14 PM
Originally posted by Chasiubao_Boy@Feb 11 2003, 09:20 AM
Goddamn according to that chart, we mind as well have a big painted bullseye here in NY. You can't walk around NYC without seeing armed guards stationed at landmarks, hospitals, subways (especially around Grand Central and Penn Station) etc etc etc.

I feel warm and fuzzy now.
It's not like it hasn't happened before. No one paid attention the first time they tried to blow up the WTC; in fact, most people outside the NY area don't even remember it. People are only just beginning to take these things more seriously...
Yeah. Most people that recently came from the midwest and west coast I've met here at work either forgot or didn't even know that 9/11 was the second attempt on WTC. I was more surprised by the numerous listings of plots on "NY Landmarks" and "NY subways."

[lethal]

AN - I guess my main contention is your reference to 16 of 19 terrorists as "either American citizens or had legitimate visas and standing to be here in the states"

You could have said that 16 of 19 terrorists were "President of the U.S., Canadians, Mexicans, U.S. citizens, or had legitimate visas" That statement would be just as true.

Why even mention U.S. citizens? By doing so, you imply that some were citizens and some were visa holders when in fact all were visa holders or illegals. None were U.S. citizens. That was probably my main contention.

[MellowDrama]

Take it from someone who has done legal work on some actual immigration cases -

GREEN CARD/PERMANENT RESIDENT != CITIZEN

The differences are too numerous to mention.

Anyone who tells you otherwise is sadly, sadly misinformed.

[lethal]

As another person who has also done legal work on immigration cases, I agree wit Mellow...he's absolutely right, although I can't articulate all the differences.

Mostly, LPRs can be deported (citizens cannot) and LPRs must be physically in the U.S at least once every 6 months (or year, depending) in order to keep ther status (citizens do not).

LPRs can't vote, citizens can. Also LPRs are not eligible for some public benefits while citizens are.

There are a lot more differences, but those are the ones off the top of my head.

When speaking of the terrorists, I think its important not to group them in with LPRs and U.S. citizens. None of them were present under either of statuses. They were all either illegal or temporary visa holders.

[kasia]

this is why coble's comments piss me off:


FBI Agents Questioning Arab students
[Union of Arab Students Association]

Dear all,

It was brought to our attention that FBI agents are questioning Arab students nationwide. We are sending this email to inform you about this and provide you with some information on this sensitive issue. (Also following is an article about Arab students leaving the country).

Over a dozen students had informed us of such thing happening to them. The students have nothing in common, except being Arabs, some are Muslims, while others are Christians. The nationality is not playing a role, as well as being an Arab-American, or Arab student studying in the US. The level of activism on campus is also not being significant, if anything most cases are with students with very little activities with the ASAs.

The trend has been an FBI agent calling the student asking to meet to talk about few things. The agent along with a DA have been meeting, in most cases in a place indicated by the student. The FBI agent will then ask questions about any relations with Bin Laden, any students that he/she knows that have relations and so on, very general questions, and very simple in, most cases. At least one student was shown pictures, while the majority were asked if they know any one who knows Bin Laden. The FBI agents in these cases have been very friendly.

Points to consider if been asked to meet with them:
1) Have the meeting in a public place (Starbucks, McDonalds, Xando, and so on.. Try not have it on campus, to prevent any students remarks afterward).

2) Do not panic if you get called, that they are calling many people. Do not worry about it and take it as a simple meeting.

3) The DA present has been very suspicious. Ask about it, if you want, but do not let his present panic you. Most DAs sit there and do not say a word.

4) Let the agent buy you coffee, free coffee..

5) Ask them if it's ok to take notes, and do so if they do not mind.

6) Take the name and badge number before you say anything. We do not want any one to claim they are FBI, while they are not.

7) Answer there questions and anything they need about the ASA/UASA activities, we have nothing to hide. All our activities are legal, just and right for American and Arab students.

8) Inform us, of any thing like this if you like. Our email address is uasa@hotmail.com, you also can call us or call the ADC at 202 244 2990.

Finally, all take care in these tough days on us as Americans and particularly Arab-American. Its not enough we have to suffer from the tragic attack like anyone in this country, we also have to suffer from hate crime from follow Americans.

This article might be of an interest to you. If any one is considering doing such a thing, we call upon you not to do it. Our education is our mean in life and the American educational system is probably the best in the world.

Arab students leaving U.S. colleges and universities, going home to parents worried of war
By NICHOLAS K. GERANIOS=
Associated Press Writer=

Around the United States, scores of Arab students have dropped out of college and left the country, many of them after being called home by parents fearful of war and anti-Arab sentiment following the terrorist attacks. Some 47 students from the United Arab Emirates have quit Washington State University in Pullman, Wash. There are also reports of about 100 Arab students leaving other U.S. colleges in the wake of the Sept. 11 suicide hijackings. ''There are some students who feel anxiety,'' said Shafeeq Ghabra, spokesman for the Kuwaiti Embassy in Washington, D.C. ''Their parents back home in Kuwait are more anxious than they are. Some would like to be together with their children.''

While it is unclear exactly how many Arab students are leaving, it appears that the vast majority are staying. Of the 570,000 foreign students in the United States, about 40,000 of them are from Arab countries, according to the American Council on Education. One of the biggest exoduses appears to be from Washington State, with 18,000 students in wheat country. ''For the most part it's because their parents want them back,'' said Ranna Daud, 20, head of the Muslim Student Association at WSU. Daud, an Arab-American raised in Pullman, said there has been no violence against the students, though some have been harassed verbally.

Efforts to contact some of the departing students were not successful because colleges would not release their names. The Saudi government is providing free airfare to students who wish to go home. Those who choose to do so will not lose their government scholarships.

Kuwait has more than 3,000 students in the United States, Ghabra said. ''We have encouraged students to stay,'' he said. Those who are afraid to stay in the United States are getting Kuwaiti government assistance to come home, but are being asked to return to this country for the spring semester, said Ghabra, who has a daughter who is a junior at American University in Washington, D.C. ''There were some difficult times for her in the first days, but she is over it,'' he said. ''My daughter is staying on and her friends are staying on.'' However, more than 30 Arab students were reported to have left American University.

Elsewhere:
_ About two dozen Arab students have left both the University of Missouri and the University of Colorado at Denver.
_Up to 30 students from Arab countries have left California State University, Long Beach.
_Four Middle Eastern students have left the University of Arizona.
_At Boston University, five Arab students have left.
_Three students from the United Arab Emirates have withdrawn from Pacific Lutheran University in Tacoma.

At Montana State University in Bozeman, all the Arab students appear to be staying, said Abdullah Bahazig, head of the university's Muslim Student Association. The school usually has about 30 Arab students a year. ''I think Bozeman is one of the safest places in the U.S. for an international student,'' Bahazig said.

[kimpossible]

Does anyone know if it is mainly students or are they questioning working folks too? I'm just wondering if they're concentrating on people with certain types of visas [as well as ethnicity/religion/nationality.]

[AngryABCGirl]

I've collected a number of signatures for Removing Coble, should I send them in to the address on the paper now or in the event I might be able to get more?

[achtungbaby]

half a year later...and nothing has been done. coble hasn't apologized, nor has he been asked to step down. i think this is what he was waiting for - for time to pass and people to just forget.

if anyone is still appalled that this racist congresman still heads the homeland security subcommittee, please refer to the thread in the 'get involved' forum to see how you can help.

[Ogumo]

From USA Today: (http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2003-02-05-camps-coble_x.htm)

HIGH POINT, N.C (AP) — A congressman who heads a homeland security subcommittee said on a radio call-in program that he agreed with the internment of Japanese-Americans during World War II.

Rep. Howard Coble, R-N.C., made the remark Tuesday on WKZL-FM when a caller suggested Arabs in the United States should be confined.

Coble, chairman of the Judiciary Subcommittee on Crime, Terrorism and Homeland Security, said he didn't agree with the caller but did agree with President Franklin D. Roosevelt, who established the internment camps.

"We were at war. They (Japanese-Americans) were an endangered species," Coble said. "For many of these Japanese-Americans, it wasn't safe for them to be on the street."

Like most Arab-Americans today, Coble said, most Japanese-Americans during World War II were not America's enemies.

Still, Coble said, Roosevelt had to consider the nation's security.

"Some probably were intent on doing harm to us," he said, "just as some of these Arab-Americans are probably intent on doing harm to us."


Oh yes and it was good for their properties to be stolen from them by the americans to right? These people were a part of america. They should have lived and died like all american people. So no I do not think that this shit was good. Now had they watched them more then yes. I can understand this. But they had no right to make them live in some cheap fucking camp.

[kasia]

has anyone else accidentally referred to this as the Kill Howard Coble campaign? it was quite embarassing.