Official: China to Surpass U.S. on Tech

[Craig]

http://www.fukuokaglobe.com/p/e0/b48a1aabe...html?id=115ab42 (http://www.fukuokaglobe.com/p/e0/b48a1aabe81b.html?id=115ab42)

Official: China to Surpass U.S. on Tech
The Associated Press, Sat 25 Jan 2003

DAVOS, Switzerland (AP) — China will soon become the world's largest Internet and information economy, surpassing the United States, the president of one of the Chinese government's two main telecommunications companies predicted Saturday.

By 2008, China will have between 200 million and 300 million Internet devices and millions more users, said Edward Tian, China Netcom Corp.'s chief executive and a pioneer of the country's Internet revolution.

He spoke at a panel on ``China's Rise: Regional and Global Impacts'' at the World Economic Forum in this snow-covered Swiss Alpine resort, an annual meeting of top business and government leaders who have singled out China as one of the few economic success stories in the past year.

In China, Internet use has grown from a few thousand seven years ago to more than 60 million today, putting China ahead of Japan and only second to the United States, which has about 200 million users, Tian said.

``China can soon become the world's largest Internet and information economy, in both telecommunications and the traditional IT (information technology) sectors,'' he said.

Last year, China was the only country where information technology continued to grow and it has become a key market for Western technology companies — No. 1 for Nokia, and number two for Ericsson and IBM, he said. China was also the only country to see growth for the telecom equipment market in 2002.

``In the past 10 years, most investment has been in hardware to build infrastructures, fiber networks,'' said Tian, whose company bought key undersea fiber-optic networks in November from Asia Global Crossing Ltd., which filed for bankruptcy to facilitate the sale.

``In the next five to 10 years, I think investment will focus ... more to the software side and service sector,'' he said.

China's economy grew by more than 8 percent last year, and panel members predicted continued growth.

``I don't think China can build an economy if we just rely on manufactured goods. We must play a very important role — a leading role in the technology side,'' Tian said.

In November, he said, the Communist Party congress adopted a ``very, very important policy — that in the next 10 years China has to build a new type of economy, an information-led new economy.

As a result of popular support for the Internet and strong government backing for the new policy, he predicted that ``the Internet will transform not only the new economy but the traditional economy.'' He noted that small companies engaging in e-business were now his company's top users.

``What does it mean for the rest of the world?'' Tian asked.

``China will become a very important player in the information industry,'' he answered.

As China becomes ``a world-class player,'' the question and the challenge is whether it can build up its technology standards and its marketing ``and export not only low-cost labor intensive goods but ... software and services to the Western world.''

Cheng Siwei, vice-chairman of the National People's Congress' standing committee, stressed the government's commitment to improving its technology and software sectors. Answering criticism of rising unemployment, corruption, stagnating state-owned enterprises and other weaknesses, he said China was working to improve its legal system and generate more jobs.

Victor Chu, chairman of the First Eastern Investment Group in Hong Kong, said the domestic challenges that China faces ``will help calm some of the fears of our Asian neighbors that China could become such a big, domineering bully in the region.''

``I think Asia will have to learn to manage with China, and China will have to appreciate the sensitivites and manage some of the fears from our Asian neighbors,'' he said.

Chu suggested that China work with Thailand and other countries in the Mekong region to promote tourism — and join forces with Japan and South Korea on infrastructure projects in the Persian Gulf region.

``Korea and Japan — have brands, technology, and management marketing skills and China has raw materials, a huge market, and a desire to learn,'' he said.

Australian Foreign Minister Alexander Downer said Southeast Asian nations should worry more about restructuring their economies than about foreign investment being diverted to China.

``If I could be slightly rude here, I think in Japan some of the paranoia about the Chinese economy which I regard as unjustified is really an excuse for lack of reform within Japan,'' he said.

``Politically, I think the sense in the region is that China is not a threat,'' Downer said.

[Hanuman]

Wow, isn't China still censoring it's internet though?

[Ogumo]

Ofcourse they have more people using the internet. That is because they have more people than japan and america both! China will not surpass america in technology. Maybe it may create some gadgets but that is about it. There probably will be nothing major coming from china that has not been done.

[Eros]

Wow, isn't China still censoring it's internet though?

Last I heard (as of a few months ago), the Great Red Firewall was still up.

[hooligan]

Last I heard (as of a few months ago), the Great Red Firewall was still up.

yeah, but we've got the ipod and a bunch of pre-pubescent hackers with too much on their hands. so there.

[Napoleon Chynamite]

Ofcourse they have more people using the internet. That is because they have more people than japan and america both! China will not surpass america in technology. Maybe it may create some gadgets but that is about it. There probably will be nothing major coming from china that has not been done.

rofl

I expect nothing less from our resident Japanese nationalist/supremacist. Sorry, just going by the vast majority of your posts here. I know how much you would hate to ever insinuate anything negative associated with your beloved country. You seem to have this aching need to put Japan on a pedestal while trying to squash other countries (particularly China), but then again, I don't know you in person so maybe/hopefully you are different in real life. Or maybe the language barrier is simply giving all your posts a raw and misdirected tone. Maybe the reason why other dumbass nationalists (not that all nationalists are stupid) were kicked off but not you is because you didn't actually come out and say stuff like 'all Chinese/insert group here are retarded monkeys' or 'the Japanese are numbah one'.

Nevertheless, nothing innovative will come out of China? And how exactly do you know this? Innovation is proportionate and relative to the times, in which case China has plenty to 'brag' about in terms of historical inventions, if you're into the whole huffing and puffing and bragging thing. China has a lotta problems but I don't think lack of creativity or drive is one of them. On a side note, I am Chinese but far from being a Chinese Nationalist. On a personal level, I couldn't care less about China as a whole. I also don't give a shit about the U.S. or Japan. *shrug*

[jenjen]

Ofcourse they have more people using the internet. That is because they have more people than japan and america both!

firstly, i'd like to AGREE with you on this one. apparently china also has more english speakers than many english speaking countries (i originally heard it was the US but that just sounds so impossible) so cn could possibly have more internet users simply bc of its population.

China will not surpass america in technology. Maybe it may create some gadgets but that is about it. There probably will be nothing major coming from china that has not been done.

BUT, let me DISAGREE PROFUSELY to this one. 'maybe it will create some gadgets'? some 'gadgets'? not arguing that cn will surpass the US in the near future but they are capable of producing things SLIGHTLY more advanced than some 'gadgets'. nuclear weapons. the technology to launch satelites. i think we're talking above the level of mp3 players and cam-corder cellular phones here.

[Ogumo]

rofl

I expect nothing less from our resident Japanese nationalist/supremacist. Sorry, just going by the vast majority of your posts here. I know how much you would hate to ever insinuate anything negative associated with your beloved country. You seem to have this aching need to put Japan on a pedestal while trying to squash other countries (particularly China), but then again, I don't know you in person so maybe/hopefully you are different in real life. Or maybe the language barrier is simply giving all your posts a raw and misdirected tone. Maybe the reason why other dumbass nationalists (not that all nationalists are stupid) were kicked off but not you is because you didn't actually come out and say stuff like 'all Chinese/insert group here are retarded monkeys' or 'the Japanese are numbah one'.

Nevertheless, nothing innovative will come out of China? And how exactly do you know this? Innovation is proportionate and relative to the times, in which case China has plenty to 'brag' about in terms of historical inventions, if you're into the whole huffing and puffing and bragging thing. China has a lotta problems but I don't think lack of creativity or drive is one of them. On a side note, I am Chinese but far from being a Chinese Nationalist. On a personal level, I couldn't care less about China as a whole. I also don't give a shit about the U.S. or Japan. *shrug*


Supremist? Is this what you think I am? I am very offended by your damn statements. This is ridiculous. I DO NOT think the japanese are superior to all other people because they are japanese. You are correct I defend japan. Yes and I am a nationalist. Haha it is true that I would hate to say something negative about japan. But there is much negative things about japan. We both know this do we not? I am not blind to japanese problems at all. I do not put japan on this pedastool. Try to crush china? What the hell? Look I have alot of respect for china and the chinese. If I hated these people I would have said this. I do not look down on these people either. Also I never said nothing innovative came from china. Only a fucking fool would make such a stupid statement. Chinese were the first to have mathmatics among many other things. Too many to get into. I was not trying to put down china or say that they were stupid. They are very smart people this is undeniable. All that I said was that they have more computers because they have more people. I also said that they will probably not surpass american technology. I do not think that they will because the americans have been more advanced than most of asia always. But it is not impossible for china to surpass the americans. I hope that they do In a way. But it is unlikely. So do not jump to statements when you know nothing about me than the facts that I am a japanese person that loves japan.

[Ogumo]

firstly, i'd like to AGREE with you on this one. apparently china also has more english speakers than many english speaking countries (i originally heard it was the US but that just sounds so impossible) so cn could possibly have more internet users simply bc of its population.



BUT, let me DISAGREE PROFUSELY to this one. 'maybe it will create some gadgets'? some 'gadgets'? not arguing that cn will surpass the US in the near future but they are capable of producing things SLIGHTLY more advanced than some 'gadgets'. nuclear weapons. the technology to launch satelites. i think we're talking above the level of mp3 players and cam-corder cellular phones here.

Look i never said china will not have advanced technologys. I do not think that they will ever pass the americans. Yes satelites are advanced but all well developed nations have these already. This is nothing new. Nuclear weapons are advanced to and china has had since the 60s. But this is not new and the americans have more advanced systems for this. When I said gadgets I was saying that the chinese will make smaller things better and smaller innovations. I just do not see them passing the americans in technologys.

[Napoleon Chynamite]

So do not jump to statements when you know nothing about me than the facts that I am a japanese person that loves japan.

Which is why I clearly stated that I was just going off of your posts and what you seem to reveal about yourself on this forum. You seem to be oversensitive and short-tempered, and you make a lot of sweeping unreasonable statements. Like I said, maybe you are different in real life or on other forums or maybe you're the same, or maybe the language barrier often causes you to give off a tone or aura that is either negative or unintended. *shrug* It could just be an English 'nuance' issue that can't be remedied by correct grammar or spelling.

[himura-dono]

ogumo, no offense, but i actually thought you were 1 step away from full on racist [from your posts] as well.

maybe you just need to tone down the aggression?

[Ogumo]

Which is why I clearly stated that I was just going off of your posts and what you seem to reveal about yourself on this forum. You seem to be oversensitive and short-tempered, and you make a lot of sweeping unreasonable statements. Like I said, maybe you are different in real life or on other forums or maybe you're the same, or maybe the language barrier often causes you to give off a tone or aura that is either negative or unintended. *shrug* It could just be an English 'nuance' issue that can't be remedied by correct grammar or spelling.


Hmmm oversensitive and short tempered? Explain to me why you think this.

[Ogumo]

ogumo, no offense, but i actually thought you were 1 step away from full on racist [from your posts] as well.

maybe you just need to tone down the aggression?

Sigh...damn. You people seriously thought I was a racist because I had certain views? I say alot about china yes. But I think that they are good people. Maybe you think I am a racist from things that I have said about white americans? Then yes. I am not fond of them I will admit. Then maybe it was possble that once you found that i was japanese you put up a gaurd because you expected racism maybe? If that is true I do not blame you. If I think something about a group i will just tell you there is nothing to hide from people that I share a forum with, do you understand? I do not think that I have been so aggresive....but I will watch for the words that I use, maybe this will help. I may be many things but I do not see myself as a racist. Expecially to the other asians. There is no need to be. In the future if you think something is racist that I have said I would like to know. I would not want misunderstandings.

[himura-dono]

Sigh...damn. You people seriously thought I was a racist because I had certain views? I say alot about china yes. But I think that they are good people. Maybe you think I am a racist from things that I have said about white americans? Then yes. I am not fond of them I will admit. Then maybe it was possble that once you found that i was japanese you put up a gaurd because you expected racism maybe? If that is true I do not blame you. If I think something about a group i will just tell you there is nothing to hide from people that I share a forum with, do you understand? I do not think that I have been so aggresive....but I will watch for the words that I use, maybe this will help. I may be many things but I do not see myself as a racist. Expecially to the other asians. There is no need to be. In the future if you think something is racist that I have said I would like to know. I would not want misunderstandings.

----- i was attempting to just keep this in a pm, but apparently there's a 1k character limit restraining it. ------

i'm not trying to make a federal case about it. look, i have people tell me i must be racist based on my skin tone on a near daily basis. i'm white. do i care what you've said about whites? not really. in fact, i'm pretty distrusting of most whites because of my relationship with my mother.

i only backed up hube [gumby] because he's not the only one who has felt that you're kind of offensive about chinese. i've in fact had several members (they can volunteer to identify themselves) ask me if i thought you were doing it on purpose or not, as you came in when there were a few trolls entering or in the process of being banned. you seem a little overboard as an ultra-nationalist, and not just a nationalist prideful of the exploits and accomplishments of japan.

i felt that by backing up hube, it may make you take a step back, maybe think about what you've said in the past here, and maybe do a search on yourself and look for any times people may have seemed offended at some level.

everyone's here to have fun and speak their views as a web community. yes, there are politics involved, but we all try to avoid any major offensives in discussions. no one is necessarily saying that you harbor hatred toward chinese or whites, but some of your views seem to point toward it. this is why i said you seem to be one step shy of racism. racism isn't just white vs. black vs. hispanic vs. asian, etc. there is an inter-race version as well, and that seems to be the one that is bothering people.

i hope this has been helpful in understanding to some degree why hube, myself and others see you as an ultra-nationalist or even a racist if things get any worse. this has not been an intentional attack on you or your character/views, and i hope that you don't feel it has been.

[Ogumo]

----- i was attempting to just keep this in a pm, but apparently there's a 1k character limit restraining it. ------

i'm not trying to make a federal case about it. look, i have people tell me i must be racist based on my skin tone on a near daily basis. i'm white. do i care what you've said about whites? not really. in fact, i'm pretty distrusting of most whites because of my relationship with my mother.

i only backed up hube [gumby] because he's not the only one who has felt that you're kind of offensive about chinese. i've in fact had several members (they can volunteer to identify themselves) ask me if i thought you were doing it on purpose or not, as you came in when there were a few trolls entering or in the process of being banned. you seem a little overboard as an ultra-nationalist, and not just a nationalist prideful of the exploits and accomplishments of japan.

i felt that by backing up hube, it may make you take a step back, maybe think about what you've said in the past here, and maybe do a search on yourself and look for any times people may have seemed offended at some level.

everyone's here to have fun and speak their views as a web community. yes, there are politics involved, but we all try to avoid any major offensives in discussions. no one is necessarily saying that you harbor hatred toward chinese or whites, but some of your views seem to point toward it. this is why i said you seem to be one step shy of racism. racism isn't just white vs. black vs. hispanic vs. asian, etc. there is an inter-race version as well, and that seems to be the one that is bothering people.

i hope this has been helpful in understanding to some degree why hube, myself and others see you as an ultra-nationalist or even a racist if things get any worse. this has not been an intentional attack on you or your character/views, and i hope that you don't feel it has been.


No I do nopt feel like i am under attack. I am glad you have told me this. I assure this to you that I am not trying to offend anyone. I suppose if you misunderstood yes my views may look racist. I will step back in the future. I do not want to make others feel less comfortable here. I know many here do not like japanese supremecists. I do not like them myself. They make us look like fucking fools. But yes others have taken offence to things I have said. I have also straightened it out with one other. He thought i was saying sneaky comments of chinese. When I explained my comment he understood. I would not consider myself ultra nationalist. I just have much pride of japan. But like I said I am not here to offend and make others enjoy this forum less. But let us be honest. Are these people more on there gaurd because it is a japanese that says things about chinese? This is something I wonder. But from now on I will try much harder seem least offensive as possible. As for inter asian hate. Haha yes I fully understand this shit. There is no need to explaine. But thank you I had not realized my views offended so many... I will tone down if I it means others will be less offended. But if I say something and someone does for some reason take it as racist. I would like to know of this. Thank you for this information.

[himura-dono]

np, thanks for taking it well, and now i can understand how you feel. i hope you'll stay around for a long time ogumo, as long as we all can understand eachother.

[Ogumo]

np, thanks for taking it well, and now i can understand how you feel. i hope you'll stay around for a long time ogumo, as long as we all can understand eachother.


Indeed indeed. It is pointless if we do not understand. It seems that my english is slipping. It is adcanced this is undeniable. But not good that I can get my thoughts understood the way I want. (I wonder how many I have upset offline). My english will emprove by maybe 10% by the end of september. It must be perfect. But until this happens I will make sure the others understand my comments.

[SunWuKong]

alright everybody, i don't think Ogumo was trying to be offensive. he just has certain opinions, and i feel like we may be ganging up on him because there are many Chinese members here.

take it easy, and remember that English is not Ogumo's native language.

[achtungbaby]

Thanks Ogumo, HD and Gumby for keeping things relatively civil. Let's not railroad the point of this thread -- you can use the Rant Room to relieve any latent resentment towards China or Japan (but never Korea).

[SunWuKong]

Thanks Ogumo, HD and Gumby for keeping things relatively civil. Let's not railroad the point of this thread -- you can use the Rant Room to relieve any latent resentment towards China or Japan (but never Korea).

hah! you're just really baiting people to start shit-talking Korea! :laugh:

[ModernLogic]

Supremist? Is this what you think I am? I am very offended by your damn statements. This is ridiculous. I DO NOT think the japanese are superior to all other people because they are japanese. You are correct I defend japan. Yes and I am a nationalist. Haha it is true that I would hate to say something negative about japan. But there is much negative things about japan. We both know this do we not? I am not blind to japanese problems at all. I do not put japan on this pedastool. Try to crush china? What the hell? Look I have alot of respect for china and the chinese. If I hated these people I would have said this. I do not look down on these people either. Also I never said nothing innovative came from china. Only a fucking fool would make such a stupid statement. Chinese were the first to have mathmatics among many other things. Too many to get into. I was not trying to put down china or say that they were stupid. They are very smart people this is undeniable. All that I said was that they have more computers because they have more people. I also said that they will probably not surpass american technology. I do not think that they will because the americans have been more advanced than most of asia always. But it is not impossible for china to surpass the americans. I hope that they do In a way. But it is unlikely. So do not jump to statements when you know nothing about me than the facts that I am a japanese person that loves japan.

WRONG!

I will tell you EXACTLY why I think China will easily surpass the US in terms of technology sometime in this century.

1) Technology is simply defined as an idea. Steam Engine, Micro-Chip, Assemblyline production are all ideas. An actual engine is called "capital." The idea behind the engine is the technology.

2) Ideas are nonrivalry... one person using an idea does not prevent another from using the same idea. Once a wheel has been invented, everyone can use the idea. However, patents and copyrights opens a whole new can of worms but we'll ignore that for now.

3) Ideas ultimately come from people (at least the brainy ones). Assuming that the Chinese people are equally as intelligent as the Americans, the fact that they have 4 times more people than America means China's growth of ideas and hence growth of technology would be 4 times as fast.


Commonly Asked Question:

So why is China's current technology level so low?

We have the Great Chairman Mao to thank for that. Under his brilliant guidance, intellectuals, scientists and doctors were all labeled "rightists" or "intellectual elitists" and were persecuted. Apparently, the Great Chairman Mao believed that technology just magic appears out of thin air and not from people and institutions. He believed that closing universities, persecuting intellectuals, causing massive political strife would aid the technological progress. Oh by the way, I was being sarcastic.... you know, seeing how you're not a Native English speaker, I was afraid you might not understand.

Implications

China is gonna kick some major ass. I'm sure as a Japanese, you may find this disturbing. Now, you people won't be so brazen as to illegally occupy the Diaoyu Islands and perhaps your politicians won't have to balls to refer to Chinese people as "animals" anymore.

[ConnieKino]

'Ideas ultimately come from people (at least the brainy ones). Assuming that the Chinese people are equally as intelligent as the Americans, the fact that they have 4 times more people than America means China's growth of ideas and hence growth of technology would be 4 times as fast.'

XiaoRonJi, that is only assuming that there are 4 times as many people allowed to think a freely as in the US, which is clearly not the case. There are still people in mental hospitals who aren't mentally ill. They just opposed the PRC govt. or wrote a book they didn't like.

[Chris]

Before I get any of you get further with this. I know Xiao Rong Ji and Ogumo have some bad blood with each other. This is a pre warning okay?

[Ogumo]

WRONG!

I will tell you EXACTLY why I think China will easily surpass the US in terms of technology sometime in this century.

1) Technology is simply defined as an idea. Steam Engine, Micro-Chip, Assemblyline production are all ideas. An actual engine is called "capital." The idea behind the engine is the technology.

2) Ideas are nonrivalry... one person using an idea does not prevent another from using the same idea. Once a wheel has been invented, everyone can use the idea. However, patents and copyrights opens a whole new can of worms but we'll ignore that for now.

3) Ideas ultimately come from people (at least the brainy ones). Assuming that the Chinese people are equally as intelligent as the Americans, the fact that they have 4 times more people than America means China's growth of ideas and hence growth of technology would be 4 times as fast.


Commonly Asked Question:

So why is China's current technology level so low?

We have the Great Chairman Mao to thank for that. Under his brilliant guidance, intellectuals, scientists and doctors were all labeled "rightists" or "intellectual elitists" and were persecuted. Apparently, the Great Chairman Mao believed that technology just magic appears out of thin air and not from people and institutions. He believed that closing universities, persecuting intellectuals, causing massive political strife would aid the technological progress. Oh by the way, I was being sarcastic.... you know, seeing how you're not a Native English speaker, I was afraid you might not understand.

Implications

China is gonna kick some major ass. I'm sure as a Japanese, you may find this disturbing. Now, you people won't be so brazen as to illegally occupy the Diaoyu Islands and perhaps your politicians won't have to balls to refer to Chinese people as "animals" anymore.


Hahaha. Look. I am not in the mood to deal with an anti japanese bastard today. But why don't we do this? You ignor my posts from now on and I ignor yours? It would be much less trouble. But knowing you I bet you want to argue with a japanese man and shoot him down as much as possible eh? Do what you want. I do not give one damn.

[Ogumo]

Before I get any of you get further with this. I know Xiao Rong Ji and Ogumo have some bad blood with each other. This is a pre warning okay?


No need. I will not deal with children like this. It is people like this that make questions for me. But it is easier just not to deal with this fool because people already think that I am a fucking racist. I will just leave this for now.

[DragonKnight]

Hahaha. Look. I am not in the mood to deal with an anti japanese bastard today. But why don't we do this? You ignor my posts from now on and I ignor yours? It would be much less trouble. But knowing you I bet you want to argue with a japanese man and shoot him down as much as possible eh? Do what you want. I do not give one damn.
Dood, for a guy who states not wanting to 'deal with children' in his next post you really need to take it down a notch. Personal insults on the net means you're flaming. If you wanna start bitching, "well, he started it first" then going down to that person's level really doesn't help the situation.

BTW...leaving the situation like a brat doesn't show much maturity on your part. State your argument, stand your ground, yet keep an open mind, try to relate to your opponent, and then go on with life. Just get it through your head that you're not always right and not everyone agrees and worships you. :rolleyes:

[Ogumo]

Dood, for a guy who states not wanting to 'deal with children' in his next post you really need to take it down a notch. Personal insults on the net means you're flaming. If you wanna start bitching, "well, he started it first" then going down to that person's level really doesn't help the situation.

BTW...leaving the situation like a brat doesn't show much maturity on your part. State your argument, stand your ground, yet keep an open mind, try to relate to your opponent, and then go on with life. Just get it through your head that you're not always right and not everyone agrees and worships you. :rolleyes:


Yes yes. This is why I think that it is better to leave him alone. I am leaving this situation because I know what it will turn into. So this is why i see it to be better just to let him have his way.

[SunWuKong]

ok everybody. debate the issue, not the integrity of individual posters. this is not a place for you to insult each other. i'll be deleting/editing posts if that kind of behaviour continues, and please don't make me do it, because i'm feeling lazy today.

[Ogumo]

WRONG!

I will tell you EXACTLY why I think China will easily surpass the US in terms of technology sometime in this century.

1) Technology is simply defined as an idea. Steam Engine, Micro-Chip, Assemblyline production are all ideas. An actual engine is called "capital." The idea behind the engine is the technology.

2) Ideas are nonrivalry... one person using an idea does not prevent another from using the same idea. Once a wheel has been invented, everyone can use the idea. However, patents and copyrights opens a whole new can of worms but we'll ignore that for now.

3) Ideas ultimately come from people (at least the brainy ones). Assuming that the Chinese people are equally as intelligent as the Americans, the fact that they have 4 times more people than America means China's growth of ideas and hence growth of technology would be 4 times as fast.


Commonly Asked Question:

So why is China's current technology level so low?

We have the Great Chairman Mao to thank for that. Under his brilliant guidance, intellectuals, scientists and doctors were all labeled "rightists" or "intellectual elitists" and were persecuted. Apparently, the Great Chairman Mao believed that technology just magic appears out of thin air and not from people and institutions. He believed that closing universities, persecuting intellectuals, causing massive political strife would aid the technological progress. Oh by the way, I was being sarcastic.... you know, seeing how you're not a Native English speaker, I was afraid you might not understand.

Implications

China is gonna kick some major ass. I'm sure as a Japanese, you may find this disturbing. Now, you people won't be so brazen as to illegally occupy the Diaoyu Islands and perhaps your politicians won't have to balls to refer to Chinese people as "animals" anymore.


Well. Chinese technology may pass the u.s. I see it as highly unlikely though. They may get great technology though but not better than america. In truth time will see. We will not know until it happens no?
Yes china will kick ass in the future I agree. Disturbing no? Why would I?Hahah Illegally occupy the islands? Take it up with american government. They let us keep the islands so it is not illeagal. Japan shoulf not have them but it is from american foolishness that it does. Even if china does try something they will be quickly stopped. As for people like ishihara. It will only give him more balls to argue with. People like this man are assholes. Do you really think that he caree how success full chinese become? Infact many more might come out like him.

P.S. what the hell did japanese fools have to do with this discussion?

Sunwukung:
Ofcourse.

[ModernLogic]

XiaoRonJi, that is only assuming that there are 4 times as many people allowed to think a freely as in the US, which is clearly not the case. There are still people in mental hospitals who aren't mentally ill. They just opposed the PRC govt. or wrote a book they didn't like.

First of all, you're barking up the wrong tree. I don't condone China's facist government... I'm not a Communist. I'm not a Facist. I'm a Nationalist.

But the ideas I'm talking about are TECHNOLOGICAL ideas... not political. Why would the Chinese government censor the idea of creating a superconductor (zero resistance material)?

[AliBabaIncorporated]

XiaoRonJi, that is only assuming that there are 4 times as many people allowed to think a freely as in the US, which is clearly not the case. There are still people in mental hospitals who aren't mentally ill. They just opposed the PRC govt. or wrote a book they didn't like.
I gotta agree with XRJ on this one ... people in the West especially like to lionize scientists as inherently revolutionary and to describe science primarily as a process of questioning the establishment, possibly to justify their own proclivities towards rebellion in fields not related to science. But in reality, the basis of scientific discovery is having a great deal of knowledge which you can bring to bear in examining a specific phenomenon, to tell what fits into patterns which are already known, and what needs to be further examined by experiment. That demands good schools, good laboratory facilities (with the exception of mathematics), and good pattern-recognition capabilities.

Science is in general not a process of Einsteinian revolution, but simple evolution. Your goal is to to add a handful of rocks to the heap of knowledge which your superiors already discovered, or maybe pointing out a situation in which a recent addition to that heap doesn't accurately describe the universe. You're not trying to burrow under the heap, plant a bomb, and cause it to collapse by questioning and contradicting every long-established idea your superiors ever taught you from the moment you stepped into the classroom, and make a fool out of all of them in the process. A complete intellectual rejection of the old structures in science by a generation of new students analogous to the political rejection of the old power structures by 1960s campus radicals wouldn't result in flowering of scientific knowledge; it would result in a bunch of undereducated students and only one in a million contributing anything new while the other 999,999 reinvented the wheel. That's why students are taught from textbooks AKA orthodoxy, instead of being handed a beaker and some funny-smelling liquids and told to deduce all the laws of inorganic chemistry by the end of the term.

Science does rest on one pillar of refusing to let social taboos get in the way of one's scientific inquiry. But that's a very different animal than the refusal to let social taboos get in the way of one's free speech or political activities which is cherished in the US. And in fact, we already see that in one crucial area, China is doing a far better job than the US at keeping social taboos and political controversies out of the way of scientists: while Americans argue about the ethics of stem-cell research and dicker and worry about how laws regulating it will influence abortion and any number of other issues, Chinese scientists are simply going ahead with it.

(I know, for example, that biology suffered under the Soviets because of the ideologically-based rejection of genetic determinism led by Lysenko, which the commies liked cuz Marx said people were molded entirely by their environment. However, the Chinese government, and indeed most non-democratic governments, aside from Islamic theocracies who take the Quran as final truth, doesn't have any such ideological constraints, because unlike the Soviets, they're no longer trying to justify their hold on government through ideology, they justify it through economic growth.)

P.S. Use the quote function. :)

[SunWuKong]

Science does rest on one pillar of refusing to let social taboos get in the way of one's scientific inquiry. But that's a very different animal than the refusal to let social taboos get in the way of one's free speech or political activities which is cherished in the US. And in fact, we already see that in one crucial area, China is doing a far better job than the US at keeping social taboos and political controversies out of the way of scientists: while Americans argue about the ethics of stem-cell research and dicker and worry about how laws regulating it will influence abortion and any number of other issues, Chinese scientists are simply going ahead with it.

yup. that's why bio-tech and genetic engineering will be hot in China.