Asian-Americans Urged to Fly Flags

[achtungbaby]

By DEBORAH KONG, AP Minority Issues Writer

OAKLAND, Calif. (AP) - This Independence Day, Richard Mak envisions American flags displayed proudly alongside the Peking ducks, Asian pears and jade rings in this city's bustling Chinatown.

Mak and about 200 volunteers are planning to visit each Chinatown merchant in Oakland, and offer to hang free flags from storefronts. It's all part of a nationwide effort — given new urgency by last year's terrorist attacks — to blanket Asian-American neighborhoods with the Stars and Stripes for July Fourth.

"For the last 150 years we have been treated as foreigners. We want to show the mainstream we Chinese-Americans are American too," said Mak, an Air Force veteran who owns a Chinatown fish market. "We are loyal to this country and we demand to be treated as American."

(read more) (http://yellowworld.org/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=79)

[kasia]

i voted yes.

[DaBestSpooner]

idiots, renounce your citizenship now!

[kasia]

[quote:d57815c96b="DaBestSpooner"]idiots, renounce your citizenship now![/quote:d57815c96b]

you wouldn't be able to make that statement in some other countries. :wink:

[DaBestSpooner]

I'd also get shot for announcing my citizenship also in other countries.

[quote:9d7809fd77="kasia"][quote:9d7809fd77="DaBestSpooner"]idiots, renounce your citizenship now![/quote:9d7809fd77]

you wouldn't be able to make that statement in some other countries. :wink:[/quote:9d7809fd77]

[jenyoung80]

[color=indigo:d861d2d17b]It's about time Asians show some American pride! It's time to acknowledge that Asians are American too. Fly that[/color:d861d2d17b] [color=red:d861d2d17b]red, [/color:d861d2d17b] [color=white:d861d2d17b]white [/color:d861d2d17b] [color=blue:d861d2d17b]and blue[/color:d861d2d17b][color=indigo:d861d2d17b]flag bold and proud!![/color:d861d2d17b]

[achtungbaby]

[quote:6783719b3b="DaBestSpooner"]I'd also get shot for announcing my citizenship also in other countries.[/quote:6783719b3b]

You might just get shot!

[kasia]

[quote:7a93501ecd="jenyoung80"][color=indigo:7a93501ecd]It's about time Asians show some American pride! It's time to acknowledge that Asians are American too. Fly that [/color:7a93501ecd][color=red:7a93501ecd]red, [/color:7a93501ecd] [color=white:7a93501ecd]white [/color:7a93501ecd] [color=blue:7a93501ecd]and blue[/color:7a93501ecd][color=indigo:7a93501ecd]flag bold and proud!![/color:7a93501ecd][/quote:7a93501ecd]

it's very true that if we want to be seen as americans, we have to sometimes take initiative and assert our american-ness.

[tapestrybabe]

this is interesting... i know someone that works for 80/20. And i just signed up as being a basic member. And one of his assignments was to hang American flags all around Chinatown.. Me, I kinda find it cool reading this article and than knowing someone kinda personal whose actually all a part of this project and organization and in whom actually knows B.S. Woo.. and he actually got 2 reporters calling him about the Flag Project. anyways, i'm feeling kinda excited right now... finding this way cool man... knowing someone who has taken a part in all this and then reading about it all here..

anyways, yeah.. i've never had taken this holiday really seriously... but this has given me a new outlook on it all....

[artsfartsyjanet]

My entire family has a flag inside and outside of their houses, and outside of our small family restaurant. =) United We Stand. =)

[DaBestSpooner]

80/20? is it that rediculous unfair act requires 80% of a apartment complexes at market rate, and 20% for low income housing?

[quote:07d2fbb727="Tapestrybabe"]this is interesting... i know someone that works for 80/20. And i just signed up as being a basic member. And one of his assignments was to hang American flags all around Chinatown.. Me, I kinda find it cool reading this article and than knowing someone kinda personal whose actually all a part of this project and organization and in whom actually knows B.S. Woo.. and he actually got 2 reporters calling him about the Flag Project. anyways, i'm feeling kinda excited right now... finding this way cool man... knowing someone who has taken a part in all this and then reading about it all here..

anyways, yeah.. i've never had taken this holiday really seriously... but this has given me a new outlook on it all....[/quote:07d2fbb727]

[tapestrybabe]

[quote:caa944636d="DaBestSpooner"]80/20? is it that rediculous unfair act requires 80% of a apartment complexes at market rate, and 20% for low income housing?[/quote:caa944636d]

wellz, i dont want to give out wrong information, so, if i'm wrong, i dont mind being corrected... but here is my understanding as i know best. One of the focus of this organization... is to have APA's more politically active when it comes to voting. And what they want is... having 80% of APA voters to support one political candidate, which they feel is an effective tool for the AA community in gaining political influence, having politicians pay closer attention to our interests... as opposed to lets say 50% APA's voting for this candidate and 50% voting for that candidate.

and well, my only problem with this strategy is even when organization endorses a particular candidate... i dont totally agree in whom they endorse.. cuz there is more than one political party than just the democrat and republican... but oh wellz, i will rethink of whom i vote for the next time tho when it comes to this 80/20 initiative.. cuz i like the organizations general mission... which is trying to get the AA community come together in order to bring more pressure in getting politicians take our interest...

And oh wellz, for a better understanding what they are all about, you can check more about them here http://www.80-20initiative.net/

[achtungbaby]

Aren't all those guys from 80-20 just a bunch of commie-sympathizers who are ready to steal secrets for the right price?

[DaBestSpooner]

I was thinking about this

http://www.nychdc.org/developers/potdev/mixedincome.htm

[quote:5fbcf1f2c1="Tapestrybabe"][quote:5fbcf1f2c1="DaBestSpooner"][/url]80/20? is it that rediculous unfair act requires 80% of a apartment complexes at market rate, and 20% for low income housing?[/quote:5fbcf1f2c1]

wellz, i dont want to give out wrong information, so, if i'm wrong, i dont mind being corrected... but here is my understanding as i know best. One of the focus of this organization... is to have APA's more politically active when it comes to voting. And what they want is... having 80% of APA voters to support one political candidate, which they feel is an effective tool for the AA community in gaining political influence, having politicians pay closer attention to our interests... as opposed to lets say 50% APA's voting for this candidate and 50% voting for that candidate.

and well, my only problem with this strategy is even when organization endorses a particular candidate... i dont totally agree in whom they endorse.. cuz there is more than one political party than just the democrat and republican... but oh wellz, i will rethink of whom i vote for the next time tho when it comes to this 80/20 initiative.. cuz i like the organizations general mission... which is trying to get the AA community come together in order to bring more pressure in getting politicians take our interest...

And oh wellz, for a better understanding what they are all about, you can check more about them here http://www.80-20initiative.net/[/quote:5fbcf1f2c1]

[ChinaLama]

watch it achtung. tapestry was referring to ME...

anyway, 80-20 is far far from being communist sympathizers...if you want pinkos, just look at any college campus and all the rah rah antiWTO ppl and the Ivory Towers of Academia. :)

*sigh* English media isn't paying attention to our Sea of Flags project in New York much though. :roll:

[ChinaLama]

response to TB: BTW this is my personal opinion and not 80-20's.

There are more parties than Dems and Rep's but to be straight up honest, they don't matter. If we as Asian Americans vote for the GReen Party or for the Libertarian party or even the Reform party, we might as well just NOT be voting. The way I see it, as AA's, to get politicians to pay attention to our concerns, we have to show them that there's a PRICE to pay for ignoring us. And that price is measured in opportunity cost--they could be wooing our votes, or they could be giving them up to their opponents. When their opponent is a tiny party that gets a measly few votes and almost never elects anyone anyway, then the opportunity cost is small. But when say 4 million APAs in electoral vote heavy states like CA or NY or TX vote for the Republicans instead of Democrats, THEN both parties are gonna pay attention--the Democrats to get our votes, and the Republicans to keep our votes, because they can be the swing vote that determines whether or not a majority in Congress from one major party holds or whether or not a Republican or Democrat will sit in office.


I don't think politics is the end-solution; a lot of other things can or should be done too, but I'm working for 80-20 b/c I agree that politics is one necessary step toward solving a lot of our problems. For example, there is a lot of anti-Semitism in popular thought (like rabid emails about how the Kosher sign is a Jew tax) but NO politician would dare voice anything even remotely anti-Semitic. Yet, the Cox report could almost casually insinuate that Chinese Americans were prone to be spies for the PRC. I think the dif is b/c Jews are politically organized while APAs are not; if we were as politically organized as Jews, at least we would be treated more fairly in policy issues b/c politicians cannot afford to ignore our concerns. Joe Public may still hate us chinks, but I don't care what Joe Public thinks. Joe Public also thinks that JFK is a sister chain to KFC; doesn't stop being fr naming schools and airports after Kennedy.

small postscript: Chris Cox, i think, who wrote the Cox report, maybe is feeling some political heat fr the APA community (w/ no small credit due to 80-20); recently, he backed Congressman David Wu who was denied entrance into the DOE. Certainly sounds a lot dif fr the Cox of a few yrs ago who wrote the Cox Report...

[achtungbaby]

[quote:94ed09bf39="ChinaLama"]
*sigh* English media isn't paying attention to our Sea of Flags project in New York much though. :roll:[/quote:94ed09bf39]

That's because white people can smell as masquerading commies.

[achtungbaby]

[quote:ccf2afb1a2="ChinaLama"]
The way I see it, as AA's, to get politicians to pay attention to our concerns, we have to show them that there's a PRICE to pay for ignoring us. And that price is measured in opportunity cost--they could be wooing our votes, or they could be giving them up to their opponents.
[/quote:ccf2afb1a2]

Wow, I guess they're actually teachin' you commie-bastards some good stuff over there!

People will never listen to you unless you have a compelling reason. We can lament all we want about our "democracy," but democracy in America means getting other people to do what you want -- something they probably wouldn't ordinarily do if left to their own (deviant) devices.

Don't ask why I added the parenthesis.


[quote:ccf2afb1a2="ChinaLama"]
I don't think politics is the end-solution; a lot of other things can or should be done too, but I'm working for 80-20 b/c I agree that politics is one necessary step toward solving a lot of our problems.[/quote:ccf2afb1a2]

Ahhh...so fresh and young and nubile, you are :lol:

Somewhere, lurking beneath the swamp that is my conscience, there is still a young man who believes politics is still the best tool for effecting change.

[quote:ccf2afb1a2="ChinaLama"]
I think the dif is b/c Jews are politically organized while APAs are not; if we were as politically organized as Jews, at least we would be treated more fairly in policy issues b/c politicians cannot afford to ignore our concerns.[/quote:ccf2afb1a2]

I've often wondered why this is. Aren't we as smart and rich and conniving as they are?!? Unfortunately, the path that Asians took to the U.S. was a much more fragmented and divided one -- and still is.

My two cents on coalition building: First off, I think that TB brings up a good point, and it's been a bit of a minor beef of mine: often times when you think of "Asian American rights," glorious images of the Democratic Party come to mind, and certainly, there's good reason for that...but it's too bad that we're not able to conceive of a world in which Asian American conservatives are equally passionate about the rights/needs of the community. I appreciate it when politicians believe in an issue strong enough to find support for it outside of their party, if necessary, because it takes the whole, "Hey, you're on my team so vote with me" mentality...and the issue itself becomes the most important thing.

Unfortunately...(sigh)...that's all horseshit. Sometimes you have to be a good soldier and do your duty, because that's the only way anything gets done.

[ChinaLama]

I think SOME conservatives can be good civil rights people, but inherently, conservatism = status quo and in particular, American conservatism = denying racism or systematic racial prejudice (never mind SYSTEMIC) or saying people should overcome racial prejudice by dint of hard work and turning the other cheek.

THAT is horseshit.

I think 80-20 is relatively conservative compared to Asian American organizations, and DEFINITELy conservative compared to Asian American activist students (of course the breakdancing frat party boys dont count cuz they dont give a shit as long as they pull in the dough) and Asian American academics. In fact, we probably look like fucking Edmund Burke compared to APA students/academics.

I dont hold my breath for either party either-- both have screwed us over royally more than once. Remember 1996-1997, the campaign finance scandal when for some reason ONLY Asians or Asian Americans were being witchhunted by both Dems and GOPers? Or Wen Ho Lee under DOE persecution (yes I am on the side of someone born in Taiwan...this wont be too common). So 80-20 is not prepared to go gung-ho for the Elephants...we're keeping our options open and going to rouse support for the pres. candidate of the party that helps APAs the most.

[achtungbaby]

[quote:6b18baa874="ChinaLama"]I think SOME conservatives can be good civil rights people, but inherently, conservatism = status quo and in particular, American conservatism = denying racism or systematic racial prejudice (never mind SYSTEMIC) or saying people should overcome racial prejudice by dint of hard work and turning the other cheek.
[/quote:6b18baa874]

There's nothing wrong with encouraging the whole work ethic thang, because we have become a generation of damn dirty lazy bastards. But to propose that hard work can defeat racism...well, I'd say it too if I wanted to make money by enslaving everyone/torturing everyone.

But there are other kinds of conservative thought out there, and I don't think wanting to pay less taxes means you're anti-asian.

[quote:6b18baa874="ChinaLama"]I think 80-20 is relatively conservative compared to Asian American organizations, and DEFINITELy conservative compared to Asian American activist students...
[/quote:6b18baa874]

Ever wonder why so many student activists fade out? You guessed it...cha-ching. It's a lot easier to raise hell when you don't have anything to lose in the first place. That's my reason anyway!

[quote:6b18baa874="ChinaLama"]So 80-20 is not prepared to go gung-ho for the Elephants...we're keeping our options open and going to rouse support for the pres. candidate of the party that helps APAs the most.[/quote:6b18baa874]

Somewhere deep down inside, I'll always have a special place for Bubba in my heart. I first started reading about him while he was campaigning against Bush and was really excited about most of what he stood for. Maybe that's why I'm harder on him...cuz there was just so much damn potential, most of it expended over Monica, I would imagine. Anyway, I'm glad you pointed out that the DNC has done it's share of fucking over Asians...and somewhere I read that Bush has appointed more Asians to his cabinet/administration than any other president combined. Granted, there were only two of us about 10 years ago, but still...I give him respect for even pretending to show that he cares.

[ChinaLama]

Yeah, Bush has 2 APA cabinet secretaries. Will I have to vote for Bush? *shudder*

I think the problem w/ conservatism is that it's often not just ISOLATED conservative thoughts, but conservatism as a philosophy. So the ppl who are anti-tax also tend to think racial prejudice can and SHOULD be overcome by individual effort. but sure, not EVERY person who thinks of himself as a conservatism doesn't believe in racism or racial prejudice--Colin Powell's a Republican but he supports affirmative action, for example.

Clinton...well just cuz he had some oral fun w/ an intern doesnt make him a bad guy.

[SunWuKong]

getting back to the flags. i heard that most of them are made in china. i don't actually have a flag. can someone check?

go capitalism!

[kasia]

[quote:c2add66e85="SunWuKung"]getting back to the flags. i heard that most of them are made in china. i don't actually have a flag. can someone check?

go capitalism![/quote:c2add66e85]

yep, they are. but some are made in korea too.

[tapestrybabe]

i admit... my thoughts have changed this past year about asians being encouraged to wave the american flag... when it comes to learning the differences of identities and how others tend to view themselves... while i consider myself an american... NOT every asian actually considers themselves as such... NOT every asian considers themself as an asian american... but a lot refer themselves more as an asian living in america instead... and they consider and identify themselves more as a Chinese, Korean, Japanese, Thai, Vietnemese... or whatever... and SO WHAT if some ppl still hold onto a their native habits... SO WHAT if their mentality and mindset is more over seas... and not here in the USA... i mean, WHY should they have to change their attitude in order to be accepted... ppl should be accepted for who they are... and not due to some pre conception of how ppl should be...

so like yeah, this independance day...
while asians are encouraged to fly the red white and blue flag... i dont see it really necessary... if anything else... maybe ppl should be encouraged to wave the flag of their country that they identify with the most instead...

[MellowDrama]

If you want to, fine. If you don't want to, fine.

[AngryABCGirl]

Originally posted by SunWuKung@Jul 14 2002, 11:08 PM
getting back to the flags. i heard that most of them are made in china. i don't actually have a flag. can someone check?

go capitalism!
LoL, if you buy flags from Asian supermarkets or shops, you have to check and make sure they have the right amount of strips. :lol:

[AngryABCGirl]

Originally posted by tapestrybabe@Jul 4 2003, 10:46 AM
i admit... my thoughts have changed this past year about asians being encouraged to wave the american flag... when it comes to learning the differences of identities and how others tend to view themselves... while i consider myself an american... NOT every asian actually considers themselves as such... NOT every asian considers themself as an asian american... but a lot refer themselves more as an asian living in america instead... and they consider and identify themselves more as a Chinese, Korean, Japanese, Thai, Vietnemese... or whatever... and SO WHAT if some ppl still hold onto a their native habits... SO WHAT if their mentality and mindset is more over seas... and not here in the USA... i mean, WHY should they have to change their attitude in order to be accepted... ppl should be accepted for who they are... and not due to some pre conception of how ppl should be...

so like yeah, this independance day...
while asians are encouraged to fly the red white and blue flag... i dont see it really necessary... if anything else... maybe ppl should be encouraged to wave the flag of their country that they identify with the most instead...
I flew a in my car after 9/11 because I tink that was the day it hit me corny as it sounds, that I'm an America. It's kind of explicable, but it the first time I witnessed so many different people all coming together in reaction to one event and sharing the grief and fear and seeing the images of so many different people missing after the towers fell and Chinatown companies donating and putting up flags despite losing so much business in the aftermath.

But now two years later, I'm not so keen to put one up after the war which I strongly believe was wrong and my disappoint at the direction this nation is going, I don't feel like flying a flag today. I go play every year at a community band which is mostly these old-timers, all white, and a few local kids who are mostly Asian, a few Hapas, and a few Mexicans. It feels like we're a big fake diversity parade of red, white, and blue, nad I think this year I"m ust going to wear stuf that supports homosexual agenda because of the court ruling a few days ago and the only progressive thing that's happened lately.

[Emperor_Mike]

Originally posted by ChinaLama@Jul 9 2002, 08:36 AM
watch it achtung. tapestry was referring to ME...

anyway, 80-20 is far far from being communist sympathizers...if you want pinkos, just look at any college campus and all the rah rah antiWTO ppl and the Ivory Towers of Academia. :)

*sigh* English media isn't paying attention to our Sea of Flags project in New York much though. :roll:
Don't you be shaking them Ivory Towers! We've spent decades working to subvert capitalist western and eastern governments via the academic branch of the Soviet ComIntern and we won't be foiled now! :pissed: :D

Well, if I was an Amerikaner I would hoist up a flag. It's all in the spirit of the Fourth of July and what would the Fourth be like without Old Glory? The flag represents the struggle against tyranny in the name of democracy and not the brand of blind nationalism we see in countries around the world today. My philosophy has always been to celebrate things (if worth revelling in) based on the principles upon which said matters were founded and not on sundry issues like misguided nationalistic fervour.

[Uncle Tat]

Me fat American hamburger!

Me wave flag and eat oreos like good American!

Can I get happy McHappy McFlurry? Oh yes!

Go America!

[Emperor_Mike]

Originally posted by Uncle Tat@Jul 4 2003, 02:22 PM
Me fat American hamburger!

Me wave flag and eat oreos like good American!

Can I get happy McHappy McFlurry? Oh yes!

Go America!
:blink:

Ugh! This is what most people around the world see Old Glory as nowadays: the flag of a decadent nation fattened from the loins of gastronomic excesses.

Where's the principle, people? PRINCIPLE??? *runs away screaming into the night*

[BeTheReds]

Originally posted by tapestrybabe@Jul 5 2003, 03:46 AM


so like yeah, this independance day...
while asians are encouraged to fly the red white and blue flag... i dont see it really necessary... if anything else... maybe ppl should be encouraged to wave the flag of their country that they identify with the most instead...
But it's American independence day. The day that the UNITED STATES declared itself free from Brittain. Flying the Korean flag to celebrate American Independence would make no sense.

Just like waving the American flag on 8-15 wouldn't really make too much sense either.

[Faithless]

My American flag has been sitting behind my buddha in the garden for years. B)

[tapestrybabe]

Originally posted by BeTheReds@Jul 5 2003, 02:06 AM
Originally posted by tapestrybabe@Jul 5 2003, 03:46 AM


so like yeah, this independance day...
while asians are encouraged to fly the red white and blue flag... i dont see it really necessary... if anything else... maybe ppl should be encouraged to wave the flag of their country that they identify with the most instead...
But it's American independence day. The day that the UNITED STATES declared itself free from Brittain. Flying the Korean flag to celebrate American Independence would make no sense.

Just like waving the American flag on 8-15 wouldn't really make too much sense either.
your quite right...
when you talk about it in reference to its history... and why we celebrate this day...

so i guess i was writing my reaction towards those who believe that asians should take the initiative to wave the red, white and blue flag in order to assert their american ness... due to the notion that a lot of others hold as still perceiving asians as foreigners...

and i'm just saying that its not really all that necessary... cuz quite a few asians living in america dont even consider themselves as american in the first place... and i dont see anything wrong with that...

[AliBabaIncorporated]

Plenty of Asians consider themselves as Americans but not Asian-Americans. Or they don't think of themselves as Americans at all. Whatever. They see putting up the flag as a way of joining in the fun, the same as eating some turkey on Thanksgiving, not as some deep statement of their belonging to the community or protesting "I'm an American too dammit!"

Should Asian-Americans fly flags? My answer is a resounding "Indian" :P

[AngryABCGirl]

Originally posted by Uncle Tat@Jul 4 2003, 02:22 PM
Me fat American hamburger!

Me wave flag and eat oreos like good American!

Can I get happy McHappy McFlurry? Oh yes!

Go America!
hehehehe, I think this is my favorite post on yw.

[ChinaLama]

Originally posted by AliBabaIncorporated@Jul 5 2003, 07:33 AM
Should Asian-Americans fly flags? My answer is a resounding "Indian" :P
this coming from someone who just ranted against immigrants.

Are people really against encouraging love for America so much that they'd rather encourage flying "old homeland" flags IN PLACE of American flags? Maybe I'm misunderstanding here.

When people live in a country, they should be encouraged to show love for it. After all, they're living here, maybe for most of their lives. I'm not saying, let's shove patriotism down anyone's throat-- that goes against everything any real patriot would believe in, anyway--- but there's nothing wrong w/ actively promoting America. I get the feeling that a lot of people somehow even feel *that's* wrong.

Also, to deny that Asian Americans being perceived as foreigners doesn't HURT us in a substantial way is just living in a fantasy world. Anyone remember these words-- "it's because of you motherfuckers that we don't have a job." That's what Vincent Chin's killers said to him before they bashed his head in, because they thought he was Japanese. What about the glass ceiling and the frequent claims that xx Asian American is really technically gifted but can't communicate? Or the insinuation in an Iowa election that one opponent wouldn't make a good legislator b/c she was born in a "caste society."

So I think it's great that Asian Americans are being encouraged to be more patriotic, and encouraged to love this country and display our love for it. I think it's great both because America's a great place with great ideals, and because I think it's a way to slowly change the stigma attached w/ being foreigners. I'm not saying it's "right" to stigmatize foreigners--in fact, I'm very anti-xenophobia. But the simple fact of the matter is that most Americans prefer other Americans to a foreigner, and at the worst, will openly hate foreigners. Is it easier to change the image of 11 million APAs or 260 million other Americans' attitudes? Or maybe we can try to do both at the same time-- but if only have scarce resources to make one choice-- then what should we do? What's most effective?

[BeTheReds]

Why the hell is this a poll? How can Hmong or Indian possibly be an answer to this?

[Green_Circle]

Originally posted by AzNBuffGrL@Jul 5 2003, 08:10 AM
Originally posted by Uncle Tat@Jul 4 2003, 02:22 PM
Me fat American hamburger!

Me wave flag and eat oreos like good American!

Can I get happy McHappy McFlurry?  Oh yes!

Go America!
hehehehe, I think this is my favorite post on yw.
Actually I do have a couple 4x6 huge old glories on the back of my pickup. You should see the peoples' jaws drop wide open when I cruise by. Flags this size make a huge noise when they snap in the wind!