fighting for the bill

[kasia]

got into a discussion about this with a few of my friends. one friend, japanese, implied that this was done only in asian cultures. my other friend, caucasian, was offended by this and stated that she and her other white friends always fight for the bill.

if this is the case, why is it that we see this as primarily an asian thing?

recall an MCI commercial from the early 90's. i think it was shown only on the asian channels. my friends have seen it on the chinese, japanese, and korean stations. two chinese families were fighting for the bill at a dim sum restaurant. a white person, at the next table, looked over, observed the fight, then stood up to put his own bill between the two families, in hopes that one of them would take it. the commercial ends with one of the asian women at the table shooing the white guy away.

i have never had a white friend fight with me for the bill, hijack the bill before the meal is over, or even insist on paying. this is not to say that white people are stingy or anything of the sort. there's just a cultural difference. would you all agree or disagree?

[SunWuKong]

nah my asian friends and i don't fight for the bill. didn't even happen in HK. we might take turns insisting on paying the bill, but that usually only last for a minute or two. with my friends in HK, it's because we see our parents doing that in public and it's fucking embarrassing, so we don't do it. with my asian friends in the states, well they're usually americanised anyway so we don't do it.

[VV o n g B a]

agree. my dad is one of the worst people about this. i've never seen a white family do this.

i don't do this much with my friends, but occasionally we will fight over the bill.

[moschikat]

hmm, interestingly enough - almost all of my causasian friends (who are male) always insist on paying the bill. . . . . and sometimes they go to the extent of paying ahead of time, before dinner is over - and the bill arrives.

damn, i'm one helluva lucky chick! :lol:

[kasia]

let me rephrase: grab for the bill.

[Hanuman]

Originally posted by moschikat@Jan 23 2003, 04:54 PM
hmm, interestingly enough - almost all of my causasian friends (who are male) always insist on paying the bill. . . . . and sometimes they go to the extent of paying ahead of time, before dinner is over - and the bill arrives.

damn, i'm one helluva lucky chick! :lol:
well in your case, I think they're just sweet on ya (who can blame em?) :P

But I don't know, my father's friends (all caucasion), and he used to fight over the bill all the time when I was younger. My friends and I do it to a lesser extent, only among the really close friends.

[rakovlam]

All people do it, Asians are just more violently when it's bill time (i.e my parents). I usually offer to pay, but when they decline I back off quickly.

[lethal]

My parents do it, but subtlely...no fighting at the table.

I grab the bill at dinenr sometimes too...but it ends up that we each "win" the right on a more or less rotating basis...except for the cheap bastards. I hate those users...

[kimpossible]

A good portion of my white friends will not fight for the bill. At least not fight the way Asians fight (specifically Chinese). We're hardcore. We'll rip it out of each others hand, push, yell, run up to the counter and shove a card in the poor cashier's face while smacking down the other persons hand who is trying to use their card.

I grew up with enough Asian/Japanese culture to nab the check but being in a Chinese family schooled me. I didn't know it could get that brutal. After all the older Chinese (not Chinese American) I've had to take out to dinner I think I could take on any one of you and still get the check. My check stealing gong fu is strong.

But as for white folks and check paying. I think it depends on the class of person and by which culture you measure the ability to pay the check. As a mixed Asian, I think I have enough distance away from Asian culture (ie, I'm not that Asian) to say that yes, Caucasians of a higher class or breeding are more likely to insist on paying for the check, or at least make the offer, but they don't go balls out like Asians can. They'll do it calmly not expecting a fight over the check to break out like a hockey brawl.

Having said that however, I've actually dropped a couple of white 'friends' I had over this. It was one of a set of factors, but anytime we would go out together we would offer to pay the bill and they would immediately accept. In fact, they told us later on that they looked forward to going out with us because we would always pay. They began to expect it.

Hmm. I reread the above. For those of you who don't know me, I'm not Chinese and didn't mean to make it sound like I am. Just trying to keep it real.

[Napoleon Chynamite]

Maybe it's all about face and showing that you are both polite and also successful or financially well off enough to pay for everyone.

As for me, hey man, no shame in admitting one's broke-ass college dorm rat poverty. If they want the bill, they can take it. No no, please, I give you face, I give you face :blush: :D

[Adaon]

Like SWK, I was embarassed by my parents and relatives fighting for the bill, but I haggle my friends for the bill...depending on which friends I would actually "use the bathroom" first and then deal with the bill that way...

[angel nympho]

Disagree. And I work in a restaurant. Asian people are generally just more loud and embarassing about fighting over it. They actually get physical. Whereas, white people fight over paying the bill with, um, words. Oh yeah, and generally, most people don't drag it out really long.

[MellowDrama]

I always get shit paid for me cuz I'm often the youngest in the group. I usually hang out w/ my brother's friends when I'm at home and they're all a few years older, so my brother will pay for me. When I'm with the "adults" they'll pay for it too. When we're all the same age, or just friends from school, everyone will pay his/her share. With my gf, its a must I insist (despite the fact that she, at current time makes more $ than me). She always offers to pay her share, but I always refuse to let her pay and have "stolen" the bill a few times so that she won't pay. I always pay for my younger cousins (little kids) when I'm with them.

[VV o n g B a]

Originally posted by angel nympho@Jan 23 2003, 04:54 PM
Disagree. And I work in a restaurant. Asian people are generally just more loud and embarassing about fighting over it. They actually get physical. Whereas, white people fight over paying the bill with, um, words. Oh yeah, and generally, most people don't drag it out really long.
to you and to all the ppl who disagree, u still say your parents fight for the bill, and louder than whites. is this not exactly what constitutes a cultural difference? kasia's not saying that whites don't ever fight over the bill, just that asians (even if its just older ones) make a bigger show of it.

[angel nympho]

Originally posted by VV o n g B a@Jan 23 2003, 11:03 PM
to you and to all the ppl who disagree, u still say your parents fight for the bill, and louder than whites.  is this not exactly what constitutes a cultural difference?  kasia's not saying that whites don't ever fight over the bill, just that asians (even if its just older ones) make a bigger show of it.
Actually, what she said was:
I have never had a white friend fight with me for the bill, hijack the bill before the meal is over, or even insist on paying

She also said that fighting over a bill is primarily an asian thing.

That's what I disagree with. I don't think there's a cultural difference in wanting to pay a bill. I believe there is a difference with individuals of both cultures who may or may not want to pay a bill.

[BeTheReds]

Well I think it is an asian thing.

Possibly more specificaly a chinese thing too. The chinese people I have eaten out with get violent.

Koreans have some set social structure and in out group set up, so basically the man at the top of the social ladder of the group always pays. If they are on the same social rank, then they bicker a little bit, but it usually ends up with them alternating.

Japanese on the other hand split the bill equally among everyone, regardless of who drank or ate what.

These are based on my observations.

[kasia]

Originally posted by VV o n g B a@Jan 23 2003, 11:03 PM
to you and to all the ppl who disagree, u still say your parents fight for the bill, and louder than whites.  is this not exactly what constitutes a cultural difference?  kasia's not saying that whites don't ever fight over the bill, just that asians (even if its just older ones) make a bigger show of it.
Originally posted by angelnympho@Jan 23 2003, 11:03 PM
Actually, what she said was:
I have never had a white friend fight with me for the bill, hijack the bill before the meal is over, or even insist on paying

i was describing my own experiences. i never said that i thought that was generally the case. the only unequivocal statement i made was that 'there is a cultural difference.'

Originally posted by angelnympho@Jan 23 2003, 11:03 PM
She also said that fighting over a bill is primarily an asian thing.  

That's what I disagree with.  I don't think there's a cultural difference in wanting to pay a bill.  I believe there is a difference with individuals of both cultures who may or may not want to pay a bill.

i never said it was primarily an asian thing. i said that it was perceived as such.

not a big deal...just didn't want to be misquoted. :)

[thaite]

Originally posted by Hello_Hapa@Jan 23 2003, 03:38 PM
But as for white folks and check paying. I think it depends on the class of person and by which culture you measure the ability to pay the check... They'll do it calmly not expecting a fight over the check to break out like a hockey brawl....

Having said that however, I've actually dropped a couple of white 'friends' I had over this. It was one of a set of factors, but anytime we would go out together we would offer to pay the bill and they would immediately accept. In fact, they told us later on that they looked forward to going out with us because we would always pay. They began to expect it.
I agree, with White people, it depends on the class of the people you're out with. They'll insist and put up a small argument but don't create a big drama or fuss.

I'll do the same. I'll make my insistence but 'm not going to fight over a check -- if I lose, I'll just make it up to them in another way. With women, I'm not going to fight over a check or a bar tab, I'll just pay -- and if I know they're the type to fuss, I'll pay it when they're not looking.

But I have had that with some folks where after a while they just expect you to pay -- that's not nice.

The big drama, in my observation, is an Asian way of getting attention and therefore, respect. "Everybody look at me: I'm the loudest and most insistent one, and I'm the one taking care of all of you and paying this check." The implication is that you'll owe that person in one way or another.

[princess]

Originally posted by buoywonder@Jan 23 2003, 09:56 PM


But I have had that with some folks where after a while they just expect you to pay -- that's not nice.


yeah, that sucks. i take turns. it makes me feel inadequate if i dont pay enough, but slightly annoyed when i pay all the time. yknow how it is...you like to find a nice balance of being nice and charitable and finding yourself in the poor house.

[JohnAD]

got into a discussion about this with a few of my friends. one friend, japanese, implied that this was done only in asian cultures. my other friend, caucasian, was offended by this and stated that she and her other white friends always fight for the bill.

I thought this was a chick thing. My wife and her friends/her parents/my parents will fight for the bill, asian and non-asian. When my friends and I go out, we always just pay for what we spent. I'm still waiting for my wife and her friends to start getting physical. I offered to buy enough jello pudding for them to wrestle over it, but so far I've had no takers :P .

John.

[iris]

Originally posted by Hello_Hapa@Jan 24 2003, 06:38 AM
A good portion of my white friends will not fight for the bill. At least not fight the way Asians fight (specifically Chinese). We're hardcore. We'll rip it out of each others hand, push, yell, run up to the counter and shove a card in the poor cashier's face while smacking down the other persons hand who is trying to use their card.

I grew up with enough Asian/Japanese culture to nab the check but being in a Chinese family schooled me. I didn't know it could get that brutal. After all the older Chinese (not Chinese American) I've had to take out to dinner I think I could take on any one of you and still get the check. My check stealing gong fu is strong.
Have we eaten together before? Are we from the same family? :lol: :lol:

This is me and my friends. We fight like crazy over the check, but we also rotate on "wins." My shadow ninja skills come in handy when the bill arrives on the table.

As for my white friends, usually we pay our own way. Sometimes, if I'm feeling generous, I'll pay, but I don't do this often because it's never reciprocated.

Have any of you girls noticed that when you go out with an Asian guy, he insists on paying for everything but when you go out with a white guy, he'll let you go dutch? This isn't a problem for me because I always offer to pay half regardless when I'm the one asked on a date. If I do the asking, I offer to pay for it all. It's just kinda weird. Maybe the way they were raised?

[kimpossible]

Originally posted by iris@Jan 23 2003, 11:23 PM
Originally posted by Hello_Hapa@Jan 24 2003, 06:38 AM
A good portion of my white friends will not fight for the bill. At least not fight the way Asians fight (specifically Chinese). We're hardcore. We'll rip it out of each others hand, push, yell, run up to the counter and shove a card in the poor cashier's face while smacking down the other persons hand who is trying to use their card.

I grew up with enough Asian/Japanese culture to nab the check but being in a Chinese family schooled me. I didn't know it could get that brutal. After all the older Chinese (not Chinese American) I've had to take out to dinner I think I could take on any one of you and still get the check. My check stealing gong fu is strong.
Have we eaten together before? Are we from the same family? :lol: :lol:

This is me and my friends. We fight like crazy over the check, but we also rotate on "wins." My shadow ninja skills come in handy when the bill arrives on the table.

As for my white friends, usually we pay our own way. Sometimes, if I'm feeling generous, I'll pay, but I don't do this often because it's never reciprocated.

Have any of you girls noticed that when you go out with an Asian guy, he insists on paying for everything but when you go out with a white guy, he'll let you go dutch? This isn't a problem for me because I always offer to pay half regardless when I'm the one asked on a date. If I do the asking, I offer to pay for it all. It's just kinda weird. Maybe the way they were raised?
Do you smell what Iris is cooking? I think that's a challenge. Well, we'll see how my stay in HK goes. Maybe we'll put this to the test!

[iris]

Originally posted by Hello_Hapa@Jan 24 2003, 03:29 PM
Originally posted by iris@Jan 23 2003, 11:23 PM
Originally posted by Hello_Hapa@Jan 24 2003, 06:38 AM
A good portion of my white friends will not fight for the bill. At least not fight the way Asians fight (specifically Chinese). We're hardcore. We'll rip it out of each others hand, push, yell, run up to the counter and shove a card in the poor cashier's face while smacking down the other persons hand who is trying to use their card.

I grew up with enough Asian/Japanese culture to nab the check but being in a Chinese family schooled me. I didn't know it could get that brutal. After all the older Chinese (not Chinese American) I've had to take out to dinner I think I could take on any one of you and still get the check. My check stealing gong fu is strong.
Have we eaten together before? Are we from the same family? :lol: :lol:

This is me and my friends. We fight like crazy over the check, but we also rotate on "wins." My shadow ninja skills come in handy when the bill arrives on the table.

As for my white friends, usually we pay our own way. Sometimes, if I'm feeling generous, I'll pay, but I don't do this often because it's never reciprocated.

Have any of you girls noticed that when you go out with an Asian guy, he insists on paying for everything but when you go out with a white guy, he'll let you go dutch? This isn't a problem for me because I always offer to pay half regardless when I'm the one asked on a date. If I do the asking, I offer to pay for it all. It's just kinda weird. Maybe the way they were raised?
Do you smell what Iris is cooking? I think that's a challenge. Well, we'll see how my stay in HK goes. Maybe we'll put this to the test!
Ooohhh steppin up! We'll go to the xiao long bao place....Mmmmmm. I know where they start making out the check....advantage Iris!

[kimpossible]

Originally posted by iris@Jan 23 2003, 11:34 PM
Originally posted by Hello_Hapa@Jan 24 2003, 03:29 PM
Originally posted by iris@Jan 23 2003, 11:23 PM
Originally posted by Hello_Hapa@Jan 24 2003, 06:38 AM
A good portion of my white friends will not fight for the bill. At least not fight the way Asians fight (specifically Chinese). We're hardcore. We'll rip it out of each others hand, push, yell, run up to the counter and shove a card in the poor cashier's face while smacking down the other persons hand who is trying to use their card.

I grew up with enough Asian/Japanese culture to nab the check but being in a Chinese family schooled me. I didn't know it could get that brutal. After all the older Chinese (not Chinese American) I've had to take out to dinner I think I could take on any one of you and still get the check. My check stealing gong fu is strong.
Have we eaten together before? Are we from the same family? :lol: :lol:

This is me and my friends. We fight like crazy over the check, but we also rotate on "wins." My shadow ninja skills come in handy when the bill arrives on the table.

As for my white friends, usually we pay our own way. Sometimes, if I'm feeling generous, I'll pay, but I don't do this often because it's never reciprocated.

Have any of you girls noticed that when you go out with an Asian guy, he insists on paying for everything but when you go out with a white guy, he'll let you go dutch? This isn't a problem for me because I always offer to pay half regardless when I'm the one asked on a date. If I do the asking, I offer to pay for it all. It's just kinda weird. Maybe the way they were raised?
Do you smell what Iris is cooking? I think that's a challenge. Well, we'll see how my stay in HK goes. Maybe we'll put this to the test!
Ooohhh steppin up! We'll go to the xiao long bao place....Mmmmmm. I know where they start making out the check....advantage Iris!
I, HH, formally proclaim to have met my match in Iris. I might have been the Queen of Air & Darkness but she is the Princess of Flesh & Blood.

[iris]

Originally posted by Hello_Hapa@Jan 24 2003, 03:57 PM
I, HH, formally proclaim to have met my match in Iris. I might have been the Queen of Air & Darkness but she is the Princess of Flesh & Blood.
Just call me Meredith Gentry. Don't get off your throne just yet. Apparently I need to bear a child first or you'll have me killed. :ph34r:

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by angel nympho@Jan 23 2003, 05:54 PM
Disagree.  And I work in a restaurant.  Asian people are generally just more loud and embarassing about fighting over it.  They actually get physical.  Whereas, white people fight over paying the bill with, um, words.  Oh yeah, and generally, most people don't drag it out really long.
yeah but white people don't usually put up much of a fight when deciding who'll pay. it's not even an argument. after you insist once or twice, they'll give in. what's the fun in that??? you don't get to elbow drop your friends to get the check from them. :P

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by BeTheReds@Jan 23 2003, 07:55 PM
Koreans have some set social structure and in out group set up, so basically the man at the top of the social ladder of the group always pays. If they are on the same social rank, then they bicker a little bit, but it usually ends up with them alternating.
that's interesting. because with chinese people, many times i've seen people at lower levels of the social ladder be allowed to win the bill fight, and that these lower social ladder people are paying the bill as a sign of respect. i've won the bill fight with older generation people pretty easily. i think it's something along the lines of me showing them respect and them recognising me as a real adult.

[SunWuKong]

moving...

[Rogmok]

yeah.. my family gets VIOLENT fighting for the bill... its almost annoying because they cause such a scene. I think it is partially a cultural thing... i don't think necessarily that asians are trying to make a big show of it. I thinks its more just trying to seem courteous type of deal..

though at my current stage of life.. me and all my friends are way too poor to fight for the bill... hahaah.. someday, maybe..

[kasia]

Originally posted by SunWuKung@Jan 24 2003, 06:35 AM
that's interesting.  because with chinese people, many times i've seen people at lower levels of the social ladder be allowed to win the bill fight, and that these lower social ladder people are paying the bill as a sign of respect.  i've won the bill fight with older generation people pretty easily.  i think it's something along the lines of me showing them respect and them recognising me as a real adult.
that's so true. one example is my aunt, who's a single mother. with three kids, things were never great for her financially but she would always insist on paying. when she treats us to meals - even when she's really not able to - i think it helps preserve her dignity.

another thing - which may not be just an asian thing - is treating those who are visiting from out of town...

[thaite]

Another time (this is not food-related) while in Thailand, me and my brother were at a tailor's getting suits made. When came time to pay the tailor, my aunt tried to pay for us and we insisted that she not. Four tailored and handmade suits came to just over $400 -- not at all expensive, relatively speaking, but that comes out to plenty of baht and I just couldn't let her do it. To save face she insisted that we get fitted for some shirts and she paid for that, and we let her.

[himura-dono]

i've learned to just speak with our server briefly before hand and that way they bring me the bill... it really pisses Cindy off, but she makes it up in spades later.

[lethal]

Originally posted by iris@Jan 24 2003, 02:23 AM
Have any of you girls noticed that when you go out with an Asian guy, he insists on paying for everything but when you go out with a white guy, he'll let you go dutch? This isn't a problem for me because I always offer to pay half regardless when I'm the one asked on a date. If I do the asking, I offer to pay for it all. It's just kinda weird. Maybe the way they were raised?
I think this is a cultural thing, not necessarily Asian.

My guy friends, Asian and non, who grew up in the South always pay on a date or even when they just go out with good female friends. Its just the proper and gentlemanly thing to do.

[BaiginLong]

depends on the mood I'm in and which friends I'm around
sometimes I split it, sometimes I let them pay for me (but I pay them back later) but only when I've run out of cash and have to hit the bank
more oftenly though I try to pay first and whip out the cash/check/plastic and stare anyone down who tries to object :P
ok maybe not that seriously but I try to cover the bill before anyone has the chance to pull out their wads heh

[angel nympho]

Originally posted by iris@Jan 24 2003, 07:23 AM


As for my white friends, usually we pay our own way. Sometimes, if I'm feeling generous, I'll pay, but I don't do this often because it's never reciprocated.

Have any of you girls noticed that when you go out with an Asian guy, he insists on paying for everything but when you go out with a white guy, he'll let you go dutch? This isn't a problem for me because I always offer to pay half regardless when I'm the one asked on a date. If I do the asking, I offer to pay for it all. It's just kinda weird. Maybe the way they were raised?
I don't think that's true. Maybe you've been going out with the wrong white guys and I've been going out with the wrong Asian guys... cuz I get stuck paying more often than not with Asian guys. And the white guys I've been out with usually just pay the bill before I even notice it's there.

[iris]

To each his own? :) That's just my experience.

Maybe we could trade some? :lol: :lol:

[himura-dono]

dude, i went to taqueria tonight, 3 seoerate asian couples... dudes let girls pay and then split the meal... o_O?!? this isn't to say there were plenty of asian guys paying, or at least covering their own asses, but this topic had me wondering, so i observed.

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by himura-dono@Jan 26 2003, 07:15 AM
dude, i went to taqueria tonight, 3 seoerate asian couples... dudes let girls pay and then split the meal... o_O?!? this isn't to say there were plenty of asian guys paying, or at least covering their own asses, but this topic had me wondering, so i observed.
you can continue the "asian guys paying" discussion on this thread. (http://forums.yellowworld.org/index.php?act=ST&f=38&t=5490&st=0)

[lethal]

So me and my gf and this other guy and his gf were having dim sum today and the bill came and the waitress dropped it by him (probably because he was the one doing all the ordering in Chinese). So he snapped up the bill and didn't let me pay. Then he made the mistake of showing me the picture on his credit card. I snatched away the credit card, but then I made the mistake of putting his card down on the table when I reached for mine in my pocket.

Dumb me.

He ended up paying and I put the tip. Damn him! I still owe him for helping me move. Haha.

I'm not sure what I would've done had I held onto the card. I mean, he still had the bill.

[teaz0r]

if i go out with boys or anyone older
than me, i don't even bother to fight
anymore, i just say thank you...

plus, i like when other people pay. :D

[mr. x]

we totally do this with friends. its simplre when i eat with my parents, cuz they pay, no questions asked

anyway its like that seinfeld episode where jerry's parents are like "your not paying!" and he's like "but he doesnt have any money!"

and the dad's like "how am i gonna pay for this..."