Why Girls Gone Wild Sucks

[iris]

I hate Girls Gone Wild.

If I ever saw the GGW camerman, I'd kick him between the legs, then beat him with a large brick while he's down and curled in a fetal position.

I hate the idiot fratboy who started this crap empire. Your middle name must be "Moist."

But most of all, I feel disappointed by the pathetic girls in it. "Ladies," you've done so much to advance the image of women as more than sex objects.

:angry:

[applehead]

so iris. are you against the whole porn idustry?

i've read that girls are desperate to be in these videos these days
but was it like that when it first started?
weren't some girls on it without their permission?
granted they shouldn't have been flashing their boobies in the first place.

but sometimes i feel like.
why can't i flash my chest if i want?
it's their body.

i don't blame the girls on it. i blame the men who supports this type of thing.
orthe other women. whatever

[iris]

True that. If they want to do it. Fine, Whatever. But when that video is floating around 10 years later while they have a "respectable" job, a husband, and family, I wonder how much they'd wish they never did it.

The sheer idiocy of GGW is unbelieveable. Most of the girls are drunk of their asses. It's exploitation solely of women.

As for porn, that's a completely separate issue, but a jobs a job.

[applehead]

i try to conduct myself in a manner i'll be proud of years from now.
because i don't know what kind of person i'm on way to becoming. ya know?

but geez. for sure, those girls will regret it later.

[deez nuts]

Knock yourselves out.

[applehead]

no we'll just shut up.

[deez nuts]

Originally posted by applehead@Jan 21 2003, 01:14 PM
no we'll just shut up.
Why? I'm curious to know what women have to say about the subject. You bring up a good point and frankly I'm appalled by my behavior. Please help me; help you. Help me understand the inner workings of the woman's psyche. I will listen to your voice. Your voices will be heard.

[deez nuts]

Oh yeah, only through communication can both sexes learn to understand, respect and grow together.

[SunWuKong]

and you know i got nothing but respect for YW girls! :)

[iris]

Aight, you really want to know why? I see this whole thing as "high class" pimping of women. The dood at the top makes all the money. The women don't get paid. He's 27 and a millionaire off the bodies of women and if that doesn't make him a pimp, I don't know what does.

Most of the girls on the video are falling down drunk, sticking out their tongues, and making ridiculous gang signs toward the cameras. They're obviously not in the right mind to make decisions much less have a jerk filming them. I can't feel much sympathy for them though because they put themselves in that situation. It's just degrading to women as a gender.

[AznYam]

which is why YWGGW is a good idea

[deez nuts]

Originally posted by iris@Jan 21 2003, 01:24 PM
Aight, you really want to know why? I see this whole thing as "high class" pimping of women. The dood at the top makes all the money. The women don't get paid. He's 27 and a millionaire off the bodies of women and if that doesn't make him a pimp, I don't know what does.

Most of the girls on the video are falling down drunk, sticking out their tongues, and making ridiculous gang signs toward the cameras. They're obviously not in the right mind to make decisions much less have a jerk filming them. I can't feel much sympathy for them though because they put themselves in that situation. It's just degrading to women as a gender.
Let it all out. Help us men understand what it feels like to be a woman.

[applehead]

Originally posted by Chasiubao_Boy@Jan 21 2003, 10:23 AM
Oh yeah, only through communication can both sexes learn to understand, respect and grow together.
:gross: :gross:

[Chris]

Originally posted by Chasiubao_Boy@Jan 21 2003, 10:20 AM
Why? I'm curious to know what women have to say about the subject. You bring up a good point and frankly I'm appalled by my behavior. Please help me; help you. Help me understand the inner workings of the woman's psyche. I will listen to your voice. Your voices will be heard.
This is coming from you CSB. But mad propz for trying to understand. :) a lady no matter how hoe-y (sorry ladies) is still a lady :)

[deez nuts]

Originally posted by applehead@Jan 21 2003, 01:27 PM
:gross: :gross:
This is why men can't reveal their inner true emotions. Because it attacks directly at our manhood and we're deemed less of a man. Let's work together and fix this.

Deep down I'm a shy, sensitive and caring man but society rejects this type of behavior.

[Chris]

Originally posted by Chasiubao_Boy@Jan 21 2003, 10:30 AM
This is why men can't reveal their inner true emotions. Because it attacks directly at our manhood and we're deemed less of a man. Let's work together and fix this.

Deep down I'm a shy, sensitive and caring man but society rejects this type of behavior.
I agreed with this point here. I have a hard time expressing myself even as a gay guy. Because of the cultural upbring. Even though my best friend are girls. It is hard for me to bring issues up.

[iris]

Originally posted by Chasiubao_Boy@Jan 22 2003, 02:26 AM
Originally posted by iris@Jan 21 2003, 01:24 PM
Aight, you really want to know why? I see this whole thing as "high class" pimping of women. The dood at the top makes all the money. The women don't get paid. He's 27 and a millionaire off the bodies of women and if that doesn't make him a pimp, I don't know what does.

Most of the girls on the video are falling down drunk, sticking out their tongues, and making ridiculous gang signs toward the cameras. They're obviously not in the right mind to make decisions much less have a jerk filming them. I can't feel much sympathy for them though because they put themselves in that situation. It's just degrading to women as a gender.
Let it all out. Help us men understand what it feels like to be a woman.
CSB, if I could give you a menstrual cycle every month I would...... :lol:

[applehead]

Originally posted by Chasiubao_Boy@Jan 21 2003, 10:30 AM
This is why men can't reveal their inner true emotions. Because it attacks directly at our manhood and we're deemed less of a man. Let's work together and fix this.

Deep down I'm a shy, sensitive and caring man but society rejects this type of behavior.
i'm sorry.

i can't stand cheese period.
man or woman.
okay so.. mainly from men.

and i completely believe you.

:( :(

[applehead]

Originally posted by tazadar@Jan 21 2003, 10:32 AM
iris,

The "pimp" has to invest money for GGW.
yeah invest money.
like go around with a cheap camera.
get girls to show boobies for free.
copy tapes and sell it for TOO much money.

aw. i feel so bad that he had to INVEST.

[iris]

Originally posted by tazadar@Jan 22 2003, 02:32 AM
iris,

The "pimp" has to invest money for GGW. The girls just flash their breast for male attention. It's a fair business. You're right it's exploitation of the girls, but this is in public. If they didn't know any better, who is at fault here?
You say I'm right. It's exploitation, but because it's in public the whole moral stance changes? I think the women in the video are just as much at fault as the men. There are boundaries and this just crossed my personal one.

Because a man has to invest money to exploit women (i.e. GGW), suddenly it lessons the ethical impact or the societal normalcy of seeing women as sex objects? What kind of reasoning is that?

[applehead]

Originally posted by tazadar@Jan 21 2003, 10:44 AM
Originally posted by applehead@Jan 21 2003, 10:41 AM
Originally posted by tazadar@Jan 21 2003, 10:32 AM
iris,

The "pimp" has to invest money for GGW.
yeah invest money.
like go around with a cheap camera.
get girls to show boobies for free.
copy tapes and sell it for TOO much money.

aw. i feel so bad that he had to INVEST.
Are you mad because some guy came up with the GGW idea instead of a woman?
WHAT???

i don't understand your logic or reasoning..
what does the gender of the person who came up with this idea have anything to with the fact that him investing money in it isn't such a noble deed???

[SunWuKong]

taz... umm... :unsure:

[iris]

Originally posted by tazadar@Jan 22 2003, 02:41 AM
Is that time of the month again? Is that why you are pissy?
What the hell is that? That's just like me asking you, "oh being male again?" As if an intrinsic part of being a man/woman negates the fact that one can have opinions.

[Green_Circle]

Originally posted by iris@Jan 21 2003, 05:52 PM
I hate Girls Gone Wild.

If I ever saw the GGW camerman, I'd kick him between the legs, then beat him with a large brick while he's down and curled in a fetal position.

I hate the idiot fratboy who started this crap empire. Your middle name must be "Moist."

But most of all, I feel disappointed by the pathetic girls in it. "Ladies," you've done so much to advance the image of women as more than sex objects.

:angry:
Aren't these girls supposed to be in college? That's what the ad claims.


:confused:

[lethal]

I went away for a few days and I stepped into a twilight zone with a shy and sensitive CSB?

[iris]

Originally posted by Green_Circle@Jan 22 2003, 02:51 AM
Originally posted by iris@Jan 21 2003, 05:52 PM
I hate Girls Gone Wild.

If I ever saw the GGW camerman, I'd kick him between the legs, then beat him with a large brick while he's down and curled in a fetal position.

I hate the idiot fratboy who started this crap empire. Your middle name must be "Moist."

But most of all, I feel disappointed by the pathetic girls in it. "Ladies," you've done so much to advance the image of women as more than sex objects.

:angry:
Aren't these girls supposed to be in college? That's what the ad claims.


:confused:
Who knows. They just have to be legal. Being in college does not always equal intelligence as I've learned.

[deez nuts]

Let's stay on topic:

There's a thread about the menstrual cycle already:

http://forums.yellowworld.org/index.php?ac...ct=ST&f=40&t=66 (http://forums.yellowworld.org/index.php?act=ST&f=40&t=66)

[applehead]

Originally posted by tazadar@Jan 21 2003, 11:16 AM
Originally posted by applehead@Jan 21 2003, 10:45 AM
Originally posted by tazadar@Jan 21 2003, 10:44 AM
Originally posted by applehead@Jan 21 2003, 10:41 AM
Originally posted by tazadar@Jan 21 2003, 10:32 AM
iris,

The "pimp" has to invest money for GGW.
yeah invest money.
like go around with a cheap camera.
get girls to show boobies for free.
copy tapes and sell it for TOO much money.

aw. i feel so bad that he had to INVEST.
Are you mad because some guy came up with the GGW idea instead of a woman?
WHAT???

i don't understand your logic or reasoning..
what does the gender of the person who came up with this idea have anything to with the fact that him investing money in it isn't such a noble deed???
It's not I that is illogical. You are just mad and that must have some effect in your rationale. There is nothing immoral or ignoble about GGW. Help me understand it otherwise.
first of all.

i'm not mad. LOL.
i'm perfectly sane.
i'm not angry either.

just trying to understand why the man's gender matters in all this????

[applehead]

Originally posted by tazadar@Jan 21 2003, 11:17 AM
That's not it, Iris. See you are using bad words. You can have opinions. It seems to me you're mad at something.
but you related it to her having her period. that's what she's saying.
and why do you consider us voicing our opinions as "mad"?
anger.. or.. insanity. whatever you wrote it to mean.

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by tazadar@Jan 21 2003, 02:17 PM
It seems to me you're mad at something.
umm... jee... i wonder what that something can possibly be...

[deez nuts]

Originally posted by applehead@Jan 21 2003, 02:27 PM

i'm perfectly sane.



That's still up in the air

i'm not angry either.

Maybe not, but just a lil bitter

[applehead]

good one. ya donkey.

[AznYam]

chillly in here

[BaiginLong]

hmm essentially it's a commercialized version of softcore porn
I'm fairly innocent in the YWGGW scandal ok girls so dun come to kill me in the night
I was only playing
:ph34r:

[applehead]

Originally posted by applehead@Jan 21 2003, 11:27 AM
Originally posted by tazadar@Jan 21 2003, 11:16 AM
Originally posted by applehead@Jan 21 2003, 10:45 AM
Originally posted by tazadar@Jan 21 2003, 10:44 AM
Originally posted by applehead@Jan 21 2003, 10:41 AM
Originally posted by tazadar@Jan 21 2003, 10:32 AM
iris,

The "pimp" has to invest money for GGW.
yeah invest money.
like go around with a cheap camera.
get girls to show boobies for free.
copy tapes and sell it for TOO much money.

aw. i feel so bad that he had to INVEST.
Are you mad because some guy came up with the GGW idea instead of a woman?
WHAT???

i don't understand your logic or reasoning..
what does the gender of the person who came up with this idea have anything to with the fact that him investing money in it isn't such a noble deed???
It's not I that is illogical. You are just mad and that must have some effect in your rationale. There is nothing immoral or ignoble about GGW. Help me understand it otherwise.
first of all.

i'm not mad. LOL.
i'm perfectly sane.
i'm not angry either.

just trying to understand why the man's gender matters in all this????
you didn't answer this question.
you don't have to.
but just pointing it out in case you skipped over it.
just curious..to know.

[achtungbaby]

What was the point of this thread again?

Criticizing GGW for somehow crossing over the debasement line is like arguing Rambo is an insult to cheesy action flicks: they all suck, and guess what! We know it:)

[kasia]

hey gals...proceed! :)

i reopened this thread in the women's forum for several reasons:

1) it's an issue that is important to females, as iris has clearly demonstrated.

2) i think we need to get a clear understanding among females as to how we feel about this before approaching the guys (we wouldn't have much of a voice unless we can present a united front).

3) i'm sensing a lot of sarcasm from our male counterparts on this issue. perhaps they're not ready to address it in a serious manner.

4) some of you don't understand why women find GGW / girls exposing their bodies for attention / etc. problematic. true, it is the decision of the individual woman to expose her body or, in more accurate terms, succumb to exploitation. however, her actions reflect upon all women. take, for example, the animosity felt by asian-americans toward long duc dong. it was his decision to take the role. nonetheless, we felt that his role reversed everything that asians were fighting for and served only to reinforce a negative stereotype. the stereotype that is reinforced by GGW? that women are sex objects.

[TyroneK(prettypretty)]

I propose that we have something else instead. Yellowworld Guys Gone Wild! We could see CSB spanking himself and Taz showing off his thong.

Once we see ourselves drunk and humiliated on screen, we'll be more understanding about the problems of objectification and its effects of women's self-esteem and psychological well-being.

Seriously though, I see where kasia and iris are coming from. The tapes are extremely demeaning and project one extremely malleable type of woman as being the most sexually desirable type of woman. These kinds of messages really do mess with people's minds. You have even more pressure on women to act differently than they want to in socially unconstructive ways and build unrealistic expectations in guys about how women with a healthy sense of self-esteem comport themselves. It also encourages (indirectly, I think) an increased dependence on alcohol to fuel social interactions.

But that's just my own beef.

[iris]

Originally posted by VBKao@Jan 22 2003, 03:51 PM
Seriously though, I see where kasia and iris are coming from. The tapes are extremely demeaning and project one extremely malleable type of woman as being the most sexually desirable type of woman. These kinds of messages really do mess with people's minds. You have even more pressure on women to act differently than they want to in socially unconstructive ways and build unrealistic expectations in guys about how women with a healthy sense of self-esteem comport themselves. It also encourages (indirectly, I think) an increased dependence on alcohol to fuel social interactions.

But that's just my own beef.
I could not have said it better myself.

This kind of "entertainment" perpetuates the notion that women are less than human beings than a diversion or amusement for men. It reduces the female to a a pair of breasts to be oogled at.

GGW also conveys the image that this kind of "flashy" - pardon the pun - party girl is the most desired kind of female, thus influencing societal thinking negatively. It's unhealthy and unrealistic.

[deez nuts]

Sarcasm me?

[iris]

I :luv: CSB. He's my calligraphy master.

[deez nuts]

Originally posted by iris@Jan 22 2003, 08:42 AM
I  :luv:  CSB. He's my calligraphy master.
For you, we'll make YWGGW more sensitive to women. Since you seem kinda bothered by GGW.

We'll interview the women before we have her show us her boobs. That way we get to know the woman and what she's all about, before we objectify her.


YWGGW

Show us ass cuz we kick ass

Disclaimer: Before we objectify we get to know them first. Please don't fast foward the interview part.

[iris]

There's my sensitive Doc :lol:

[deez nuts]

Originally posted by iris@Jan 22 2003, 08:57 AM
There's my sensitive Doc :lol:
Anything to be a more caring and sensitive Asian male.

[iris]

Originally posted by Chasiubao_Boy@Jan 22 2003, 09:51 PM
For you, we'll make YWGGW more sensitive to women. Since you seem kinda bothered by GGW.

We'll interview the women before we have her show us her boobs. That way we get to know the woman and what she's all about, before we objectify her.


YWGGW

Show us ass cuz we kick ass

Disclaimer: Before we objectify we get to know them first. Please don't fast foward the interview part.
I'm gonna organized the YW women to protest at your apartment! We're gonna do sit-ins and wear hippie clothing.

[teaz0r]

i think the ggw videos are like. harmless. i don't get off on it. i much prefer lesbian porn.
i don't think it sucks. because. i dunno. it doesn't bother me. i don't find it degrading to women either.
it's like whatever floats their boat.

would i do it? i dunno. i mean i've totally flashed n' what not before.
and those pictures still float around. if i'm gonna be criticized for what i've done.
then so be it? i did it out of an urge? i don't regret anything. not stuff like this.
i guess. i don't really care too much about these things...cuz i figure. you're
responsible for the actions you take. i figure there are worse things than finding out
ten years later that people have seen your boobies when you were drunk.

[kasia]

to reiterate: some of you don't understand why women find GGW / girls exposing their bodies for attention / etc. problematic. true, it is the decision of the individual woman to expose her body or, in more accurate terms, succumb to exploitation. however, her actions reflect upon all women. take, for example, the animosity felt by asian-americans toward long duc dong. it was his decision to take the role. nonetheless, we felt that his role reversed everything that asians were fighting for and served only to reinforce a negative stereotype. the stereotype that is reinforced by GGW? that women are sex objects.

so even if all the long duc dongs are interviewed and provided an opportunity to give full consent before they take the parts, it wouldn't make a difference. that fact that they take it is hurtful to the entire asian community.

also, recall the abercrombie scandal. the argument made by many whites is that asians can make their own t-shirts depicting white people. that argument would only make sense if things are equal to begin with.

[lethal]

Perhaps the women depicted in GGW do represent women in general or at least young college women. Is it really different than the image already ingrained in the minds of the type of men who watch GGW? I mean, the target audience is males age 18-25, I'm sure. Guys that age who watch probably know women similar to the ones depicted in the video. They also know that not all women are like the ones depicted in the videos. Remember, most buyers of GGW buy it at least partially for fantasy value.

Similarly, each one of us is different and our actions do not necessarily represent the Asian race in general. We do not exemplify what it is to be Asian because we're all different people. If one of us leaves a bad tip at a restaurant, it doesn't necessarily mean all Asians are bad tippers. People should know better and if they don't that's where education comes in. People should and probably do know better than to think GGW depicts every day reality. It is a form of entertainment which is so over the top that it is beyond reality.

Contrast to long duc dong, at the time, awareness of what an Asian person is was very limited. He was the example for many people. Him, the guy from Goonies, the guy from Revenge of the Nerds...there weren't that many examples in popular media. Is what he did any worse than Lucy Lui taking the roles that she does which depict a somewhat stereotypical Asian female, martial artist/submissive role?

[Napoleon Chynamite]

Girls Gone Wild sucks not only because it is degrading to women, but it is not even exciting enough to match up to that good ol' hard core stuff.




*runs far*

*runs fast*

[kasia]

Originally posted by tazadar@Jan 22 2003, 10:38 AM
Kasia,

It's a fallacious analogy comparing women exposing their breasts as exemplified in GGW video to AA stereotypical portrals as your example of Long Duc Dong. There is no equal comparison of stereotyping of women in adult video to American media stereotyping of Asians. The adult entertainment industry is agreeably a degradation of women, but this is not the prevalent depiction of women in our society. I doubt many men will view women as whores after watching GGW.
i disagree. there are very few males i know that do not subscribe to playboy or a like magazine. the reason why the analogy is not clear is because it is so prevalent that females are placed into this stereotypical role that has permeated the culture of our society. it is difficult for us to view it from a third person's perspective because it is so normal to us.

when long duc dong and like characters were used in hollywood, most of us were not immediately angered by the portrayal. it wasn't until years after, and i'm getting this from the accounts of 80's kids, that they looked back and thought, "hey, that was fucked up."

[SunWuKong]

what if i said i support female empowerment and at the same time watch porno and GGW?
does this make me a hypocrite?
do you think something like watching GGW or subscribing to Playboy devalues women in the mind of the male audience?
because honestly, i love strong women that stand up for themselves. my own mother is like this.
but i also watch porn.

[kasia]

Originally posted by lethalweapon@Jan 22 2003, 10:37 AM
Perhaps the women depicted in GGW do represent women in general or at least young college women.  Is it really different than the image already ingrained in the minds of the type of men who watch GGW?  I mean, the target audience is males age 18-25, I'm sure.  Guys that age who watch probably know women similar to the ones depicted in the video.  They also know that not all women are like the ones depicted in the videos.  Remember, most buyers of GGW buy it at least partially for fantasy value.

Similarly, each one of us is different and our actions do not necessarily represent the Asian race in general.  We do not exemplify what it is to be Asian because we're all different people.  If one of us leaves a bad tip at a restaurant, it doesn't necessarily mean all Asians are bad tippers.  People should know better and if they don't that's where education comes in.  People should and probably do know better than to think GGW depicts every day reality.  It is a form of entertainment which is so over the top that it is beyond reality.

Contrast to long duc dong, at the time, awareness of what an Asian person is was very limited.  He was the example for many people.  Him, the guy from Goonies, the guy from Revenge of the Nerds...there weren't that many examples in popular media.  Is what he did any worse than Lucy Lui taking the roles that she does which depict a somewhat stereotypical Asian female, martial artist/submissive role?
first of all, the fact that the viewers are probably limited to males aged 18-25 is an unwarranted assumption.

but even if it is, why would the possibility that these males already hold these stereotypical images of the women in any way serve as a justification for the videos? would that the fact that they were bigoted at an earlier time eliminate any further harm that the videos could cause? isn't it true that the videos could still serve to confirm their bigotry?

and the next argument is that the males may actually know females like this. so, in a sense, truth is the justification. women are like this in reality, and therefore we're just showing it how it is. but then, you go on to say that most males know that not all females are like this. so what is with the reinforcement of select stereotypes. how is this different from the white media saying: we know some asian guys are nerdy but not all, yet we choose to depict in the media only those nerdy ones.

and regarding responsibility for our actions. it is true that not all of my actions will reflect on you or yours on me. but GGW is a video that is being sold on television.

although we have come a long way (asians and females), we have not yet hit a point where such media portrayals would not have an true effect of how we are viewed. we thought long duc dong was unacceptable. twenty years later, we thought kung fool was unacceptable. this is not to say that we haven't progressed at all. but it will be a while before there is true equality.

the asian community has been critical of lucy liu's roles.

[kasia]

Originally posted by SunWuKung@Jan 22 2003, 11:37 AM
what if i said i support female empowerment and at the same time watch porno and GGW?
does this make me a hypocrite?
do you think something like watching GGW or subscribing to Playboy devalues women in the mind of the male audience?
because honestly, i love strong women that stand up for themselves.  my own mother is like this.
but i also watch porn.
it's hard for me not to think that it isn't hypocritical. i can't very well be fighting for civil rights but find clips like 'tokyo breakfast' to be hilarious.

on the other hand, GGW is not exactly like porn. in GGW, only girls are portrayed as sex objects...

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by kasia@Jan 22 2003, 02:41 PM
Originally posted by SunWuKung@Jan 22 2003, 11:37 AM
what if i said i support female empowerment and at the same time watch porno and GGW?
does this make me a hypocrite?
do you think something like watching GGW or subscribing to Playboy devalues women in the mind of the male audience?
because honestly, i love strong women that stand up for themselves. my own mother is like this.
but i also watch porn.
it's hard for me not to think that it isn't hypocritical. i can't very well be fighting for civil rights but find clips like 'tokyo breakfast' to be hilarious.
hmm... perhaps the problem is the use of umbrella terms such as "female empowerment" or "civil rights"? after all, not all feminists agree, and not all civil rights activists agree.

but anyway, in case you were wondering, that wasn't really a rhetorical question i was asking. i'm wondering if i'm a hypocrite. :P


edit: well to clarify, i don't actually watch specifically GGW. i've only seen a few minute of it to see what the hype is all about.

[kasia]

on a side note, i can care less about videos like GGW as well. i just don't think that people should be trying to justify having them.

[Hanuman]

By the way, how many people here have actually watched the girls gone wild tapes? They stink. They're boring and monotonous. This company has a terrific marketing scheme (hey, sex sells) but the product itself is awful.

I know this isn't really the point of this thread. I don't really see what's wrong with a product like this. Maybe it's cause I'm a think headed guy, but yes, sometimes I do like to think about a girl as nothing but a sexy, but mindless bimbo. Would I actually want to date a girl like this, no, but can I fantasize about a girl like this? Hell yeah.

If we are to denounce GGW on the principal that it objectifies women, then we should condemn beauty pagents, beer commercials, and ring girls. I think that would be a shame (I'm not being sarcastic) cause I think women are sexy. There's nothing wrong with being sexy. Just like some men are strong and are valued for their strength (athletes for example) it's simply another quality that makes them more attractive, women should be appreciated for their beauty.

[Napoleon Chynamite]

Yea like I said, although this is beside the point GGW is not even satisfying for perverts.

[ism]

Hmm. Would women be hypocrites if they say they are anti-objectification but wear makeup and heels?

[moschikat]

I've watched them . . . . . *cough cough* for PURELY uhm, analytical purposes????

Hmm, my two cents : I figure I'll only live once - so why the heck not go crazy and live life to the fullest? SO I was drunk, so I was young . . . so I flashed people out the back of the convertible . . . .

at least i can say "been there done that."

But I digress, I can't say that all those stupid things haven't caught up with me . . . hence, i'm single. And probably NEVER gonna get married.

haha! :lol:

[Napoleon Chynamite]

Originally posted by moschikat@Jan 22 2003, 09:08 PM
I've watched them . . . . . *cough cough* for PURELY uhm, analytical purposes????

heya that's my line!! :angry: :P ;)

[princess]

Originally posted by tazadar@Jan 22 2003, 12:54 PM
No, I haven't. I've seen clips of GGW from advertisement on TV.
ive seen tv ads for them, too. i think its so incredibly stupid.

[himura-dono]

*does a monkey dance for princess*

[Adaon]

Originally posted by moschikat@Jan 22 2003, 01:08 PM
I've watched them . . . . . *cough cough* for PURELY uhm, analytical purposes????

Hmm, my two cents : I figure I'll only live once - so why the heck not go crazy and live life to the fullest? SO I was drunk, so I was young . . . so I flashed people out the back of the convertible . . . .

at least i can say "been there done that."

But I digress, I can't say that all those stupid things haven't caught up with me . . . hence, i'm single. And probably NEVER gonna get married.

haha! :lol:
sure, jacks, sure,-lol-

I'm sure Eugene wouldn't mind keeping ya company, if ya know what I mean.....bahahahaha :lol: ;)

[deez nuts]

Originally posted by moschikat@Jan 22 2003, 04:08 PM
I've watched them . . . . . *cough cough* for PURELY uhm, analytical purposes????

Hmm, my two cents : I figure I'll only live once - so why the heck not go crazy and live life to the fullest? SO I was drunk, so I was young . . . so I flashed people out the back of the convertible . . . .

at least i can say "been there done that."

But I digress, I can't say that all those stupid things haven't caught up with me . . . hence, i'm single. And probably NEVER gonna get married.

haha! :lol:
**Hands moschikat a YWGGW business card**

Call us.

Edit: Whoaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa, YWGGW!

[iris]

The people making and selling these videos are trying to capitalize on institutionalized sexism therefore re-enforcing the image of women as sex object. You can see it here in the posts. People who think this kind of stuff is "entertainment," "harmless," and "fun."

It's hard relating if you yourself can never be put in the same situation or if you've been conditioned so much by the frat-boy mentality that you see this as normal. But imagine this: your sister, your (future) daughter, your girlfriend, your wife, or your mother in these videos. Would you want that? No, then why not? You don't want her to be portrayed as only a sex object because you know she is a beautiful, intelligence woman and has much more potential than that? If you don't want it for this woman in your life, why would you want it for others? Why do you apply different standards for two groups of people of the same gender? Just because the woman in the video is a stranger to you, doesn't mean she won't have an effect on those close to you.

Discrimination of women is much subtler than that of racism, but just as wrong. When your sister/wife/etc., goes up for her next promotion, are her superiors the ones that ascribe to the ''women as sex objects" line of thought? Will she be passed over due to social conditioning of women as less capable than men? It's taken hundreds of years for women in western society to be seen as more than housewives, so why try to de-humanize them/ourselves again?

[princess]

Originally posted by himura-dono@Jan 22 2003, 03:59 PM
*does a monkey dance for princess*
hmm this is disturbingly entertaining... :blink:

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by iris@Jan 22 2003, 08:57 PM
The people making and selling these videos are trying to capitalize on institutionalized sexism therefore re-enforcing the image of women as sex object. You can see it here in the posts. People who think this kind of stuff is "entertainment," "harmless," and "fun."

It's hard relating if you yourself can never be put in the same situation or if you've been conditioned so much by the frat-boy mentality that you see this as normal. But imagine this: your sister, your (future) daughter, your girlfriend, your wife, or your mother in these videos. Would you want that? No, then why not? You don't want her to be portrayed as only a sex object because you know she is a beautiful, intelligence woman and has much more potential than that? If you don't want it for this woman in your life, why would you want it for others? Why do you apply different standards for two groups of people of the same gender? Just because the woman in the video is a stranger to you, doesn't mean she won't have an effect on those close to you.

Discrimination of women is much subtler than that of racism, but just as wrong. When your sister/wife/etc., goes up for her next promotion, are her superiors the ones that ascribe to the ''women as sex objects" line of thought? Will she be passed over due to social conditioning of women as less capable than men? It's taken hundreds of years for women in western society to be seen as more than housewives, so why try to de-humanize them/ourselves again?
iris, the truth is that it's not difficult at all for most men to categorize women into one of two groups:

1) girl you'd have a relationship with
2) girl you wouldn't have a relationship with but would readily have sex with

[iris]

Originally posted by tazadar@Jan 23 2003, 04:11 AM
The main issue really is conflict of individual freedom versus societal control. You're against girls exposing their breasts in GGW which creates social construct of women being sexual objects, thus you are against individual freedom - their body, their choice. My contention is how is it that GGW video degrade or taking advantage of the girls. Is it only degrading when the focus is on a woman's sexuality? Why is it not degrading when the focus is on a woman's brain? How can the girls' be taken advantage of when they are doing it in public and knowing the kind of things that goes on in these events?
I don't think Kasie and I are arguing that you can't choose to do these kind of things. What we asking is for women to think about their actions before they do them? And why these videos exist in the first place? I am a big believer in individual freedom, but I also think about how my actions can harm others. It's called social responsibility and maturity. It's the same stance I take with racial slurs. Because we have the first amendment, I don't think bigoted vocabulary should be struck from the English language, but this also doesn't mean I can't educate people on why they should choose not to use them by pointing out the detrimental affect it has on others. Along with the freedom of choice comes responsibility. You have freedom because it is believed that you are an intelligent human being who can make smart choices.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and state that I don't think any male would want his loved one, be it a sister, a wife, or a mother on this video. Ask yourself why not. And if not, how can you separate between two different groups of the same gender? It's ridiculous. That's like trying to justify how you can respect someone as a person, yet enslave their brothers and sisters.

[deez nuts]

Originally posted by iris@Jan 22 2003, 09:09 PM


I'm going to go out on a limb here and state that I don't think any male would want his loved one, be it a sister, a wife, or a mother on this video.
Nah, I could care less.

[Adaon]

Originally posted by princess@Jan 22 2003, 06:00 PM
hmm this is disturbingly entertaining... :blink:
heh, you asked for it, and *bam* -vOIla!!- instant entertainment. -sniffs HD for booze-
JUST PLAYING MAN. KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK.

[moschikat]

Originally posted by Chasiubao_Boy@Jan 22 2003, 06:27 PM
Originally posted by iris@Jan 22 2003, 09:09 PM


I'm going to go out on a limb here and state that I don't think any male would want his loved one, be it a sister, a wife, or a mother on this video.
Nah, I could care less.
/me hands you her phone number

:lol:

[Adaon]

:blink::huh: -blinks- everyone's got my sister's digits except me. WOW.....-blinks- :blink: :huh:

[moschikat]

since when have i been your sister?

and - you've never asked for it.

:rolleyes:

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by iris@Jan 22 2003, 09:09 PM
I'm going to go out on a limb here and state that I don't think any male would want his loved one, be it a sister, a wife, or a mother on this video. Ask yourself why not. And if not, how can you separate between two different groups of the same gender? It's ridiculous. That's like trying to justify how you can respect someone as a person, yet enslave their brothers and sisters.
i know maybe it's difficult for some women to understand, but that's just the reality of it. most men can easily dissociate a girl he sees on something like GGW from a girl he'd break his back for.

[iris]

Originally posted by SunWuKung@Jan 23 2003, 10:48 AM
i know maybe it's difficult for some women to understand, but that's just the reality of it. most men can easily dissociate a girl he sees on something like GGW from a girl he'd break his back for.
That doesn't mean we can't fight to correct the misconception. That's like saying we should roll over and take it because that's the way it is.

I don't have to accept it just like I don't have to accept Caucasians or any other race who discriminate against Asians, yet not against their one and only Asian friend.

[Adaon]

Originally posted by moschikat@Jan 22 2003, 06:39 PM
since when have i been your sister?

and - you've never asked for it.

:rolleyes:
I so did, but ya just don't remember....said something about not wanting to corrupt a good boy like me or something....pfft.....feh....that idea flew STRAIGHT out the window...:P

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by iris@Jan 22 2003, 09:52 PM
That doesn't mean we can't fight to correct the misconception. That's like saying we should roll over and take it because that's the way it is.

I don't have to accept it just like I don't have to accept Caucasians or any other race who discriminate against Asians, yet not against their single asian friend.
well, i'm just explaining the phenomenom of how men can watch videos that degrade women and still respect the women that they live with.

[achtungbaby]

Another two cents from me: I still don't understand why GGW is any more degrading than the volumes of other movies out there.

[Arex]

I think ism brought up an interesting question that I'd like to hear some of the women's positions on...

Originally posted by ism@Jan 22 2003, 12:47 PM
Hmm. Would women be hypocrites if they say they are anti-objectification but wear makeup and heels?
My own take on the tapes is that I agree that the tapes objectify women in that their sole focus is on the subject women's sexuality and physical appearance, but I don't think it should necessarily even be an issue. In addition to intelligence, personality, talent and skills, every woman also has her sexuality as well as her physical appearance. Most women will at some point in their lives emphasize one of these facets over another. These tapes happen to focus upon one facet and thereby objectify these women, but they're targeted specifically towards men's sexual/horny sides. Context can't be ignored, which is why SWK's point is relevant. When a man is specifically looking for sexual stimulation or gratification, isn't it natural that the man is going to place more of an emphasis on women's sexuality and physical appearance? That's what GGW is for: GGW is smut and is used for smut purposes. On the other hand, if CNN came up with a regular GGW segment, I could see how it'd be problematic and might create or perpetuate problematic stereotypes because blurs the distinction between the fantasy that is GGW and the reality that CNN represents. I would hope that most men could easily differentiate between women in general (real world women) and the women in GGW and other smut.

Alex

[Adaon]

Originally posted by Arex@Jan 23 2003, 02:58 AM
I think ism brought up an interesting question that I'd like to hear some of the women's positions on...


My own take on the tapes is that I agree that the tapes objectify women in that their sole focus is on the subject women's sexuality and physical appearance, but I don't think it should necessarily even be an issue. In addition to intelligence, personality, talent and skills, every woman also has her sexuality as well as her physical appearance. Most women will at some point in their lives emphasize one of these facets over another. These tapes happen to focus upon one facet and thereby objectify these women, but they're targeted specifically towards men's sexual/horny sides. Context can't be ignored, which is why SWK's point is relevant. When a man is specifically looking for sexual stimulation or gratification, isn't it natural that the man is going to place more of an emphasis on women's sexuality and physical appearance? That's what GGW is for: GGW is smut and is used for smut purposes. On the other hand, if CNN came up with a regular GGW segment, I could see how it'd be problematic and might create or perpetuate problematic stereotypes because blurs the distinction between the fantasy that is GGW and the reality that CNN represents. I would hope that most men could easily differentiate between women in general (real world women) and the women in GGW and other smut.

Alex
just for clarification purposes, but do you mean that the difference of GGW versus (other) paraphanalia that objectify a woman's sexuality is the limit of exposure to the public?

[lethal]

Alright, I'm gonna post and leave this topic because I'm just way over my head here, but here goes.

Originally posted by kasia@Jan 22 2003, 02:37 PM
first of all, the fact that the viewers are probably limited to males aged 18-25 is an unwarranted assumption.
Actually, I said that the product was marketed toward males 18-25. I never said what age the viewers were.

Originally posted by kasia@Jan 22 2003, 02:37 PM

but even if it is, why would the possibility that these males already hold these stereotypical images of the women in any way serve as a justification for the videos?  would that the fact that they were bigoted at an earlier time eliminate any further harm that the videos could cause?  isn't it true that the videos could still serve to confirm their bigotry?
Perhaps, but also perhaps the "bigotry" (I think sexism is a better word here) is so ingrained that these bvideos would have no effect. I would argue that many of the men whom these videos actualyl affect would be weak of mind and have a predispostion to such thoughts anyway. No amount of education would change that mindset.

Originally posted by kasia@Jan 22 2003, 02:37 PM
and the next argument is that the males may actually know females like this.  so, in a sense, truth is the justification.  women are like this in reality, and therefore we're just showing it how it is.  but then, you go on to say that most males know that not all females are like this.  so what is with the reinforcement of select stereotypes.  how is this different from the white media saying: we know some asian guys are nerdy but not all, yet we choose to depict in the media only those nerdy ones.

I have no real response to this aside from the fantasy angle. Most men who watch see some of this behavior n women they know, but not the compilation of all of it in any woman. They watch for fantasy value knowing there is no reality of it.

Originally posted by kasia@Jan 22 2003, 02:37 PM

and regarding responsibility for our actions.  it is true that not all of my actions will reflect on you or yours on me.  but GGW is a video that is being sold on television.

although we have come a long way (asians and females), we have not yet hit a point where such media portrayals would not have an true effect of how we are viewed.  we thought long duc dong was unacceptable.  twenty years later, we thought kung fool was unacceptable.  this is not to say that we haven't progressed at all.  but it will be a while before there is true equality.

Also agreed.

Kas, I don't think that people necessarily disagree as much. I think some people are saying something and others are saying something in opposition, but it isn't true opposition. I don't think the 2 views are mutually exclusive. I dunno...I'm rambling now.

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by lethalweapon@Jan 23 2003, 11:25 AM
Alright, I'm gonna post and leave this topic because I'm just way over my head here, but here goes.
here goes what? :confused:

[Arex]

Originally posted by Adaon@Jan 23 2003, 06:32 AM
just for clarification purposes, but do you mean that the difference of GGW versus (other) paraphanalia that objectify a woman's sexuality is the limit of exposure to the public?
Hmmm... I'm not sure I know what you mean here...?

I think the point I was trying to make is that porn or other "smut," including GGW, isn't necessarily going to have that great an impact on how people perceive women generally because it's focus is so narrow: it's specifically made to cater towards certain men's sexual cravings. In that sense, it's honest because the only thing smut peddlers are selling is sex. If a man wants to see titties, the man buys the tape and sees titties. This is as opposed to, say, beer commercials, print ads, or network television programs that use women and their sexuality as a mere vehicle to sell or accomplish something else. Personally, I would think the excess use of women and their sexuality for those purposes would be more problematic because it's essentially crossing wires in men's heads, trying to associate beer, soft drinks, news and everything else with sex, sex and more sex.


Alex

[himura-dono]

us = smut culture. proceed to get over it.

[kasia]

Originally posted by Arex@Jan 23 2003, 02:58 AM
In addition to intelligence, personality, talent and skills, every woman also has her sexuality as well as her physical appearance. Most women will at some point in their lives emphasize one of these facets over another. These tapes happen to focus upon one facet...
are you saying that, deep down, we're all like the girls in GGW? cause these tapes do more than focus on appearance and sexuality.

[princess]

Originally posted by himura-dono@Jan 23 2003, 04:08 PM
us = smut culture. proceed to get over it.
what? i dont really think its as easy as learning to accept or get over it. its something that some of us arent comfortable with. period.

anyway, wouldnt any of you guys be bothered if the shoe were on the other foot? im sure a few of you would. and im also sure that some of you would indeed be annoyed if it were a relative of you on those tapes. i mean, i know id be bothered if some guys were oggling my sister or cousins chests. yeah, its their choice. but capturing it on video tape to sell and make profit just doesnt sit well with me. video tapes arent the same thing as a girl flashing her boobs in public. its a permanent record that can be played, replayed, and re-recorded onto other tapes. i just dont like that idea.

[Arex]

Originally posted by kasia@Jan 23 2003, 05:34 PM
are you saying that, deep down, we're all like the girls in GGW? cause these tapes do more than focus on appearance and sexuality.
I'm not saying deep down all women are like the girls in GGW. But every woman does have a sexual side and at some point every woman will likely express it in one form or another. The girls in GGW are one (stupid) extreme example. My point is, I think most people understand that the women in these tapes represent nothing but this stupid extreme.

Alex

[BeTheReds]

Well honestly, I have never ever heard of anyone buying that videotape.

I have never seen it, but I am not attracted to drunken sluts, and I hate the whole fraternity system.

However:

I can not agree that the women are victims. In this day and age, when men who are drunk when they have sex can be convicted of rape, when women who are drunk have sex with a man, the man can be convicted of rape, if they both are drunk and have sex it's rape, when a man makes a joke with a slightly sexual undertone, or is kidding about wanting to sleep with a woman, she can sue him for sexual harassment. If a man tries to sue a woman for sexual harassment, she can sue him for sexual harassment because he is assuming that she wants to sleep with him, which if incorrect, she can sue him for it.

It's like the only ones who have to legally behave are Men, while women can do whatever the hell they want.

[iris]

Originally posted by BeTheReds@Jan 27 2003, 06:05 PM
Well honestly, I have never ever heard of anyone buying that videotape.

I have never seen it, but I am not attracted to drunken sluts, and I hate the whole fraternity system.

However:

I can not agree that the women are victims. In this day and age, when men who are drunk when they have sex can be convicted of rape, when women who are drunk have sex with a man, the man can be convicted of rape, if they both are drunk and have sex it's rape, when a man makes a joke with a slightly sexual undertone, or is kidding about wanting to sleep with a woman, she can sue him for sexual harassment. If a man tries to sue a woman for sexual harassment, she can sue him for sexual harassment because he is assuming that she wants to sleep with him, which if incorrect, she can sue him for it.

It's like the only ones who have to legally behave are Men, while women can do whatever the hell they want.
I don't think we're arguing about whether they are victims or not. For me personally, they made the choice to do it and they should take the consequences.

We're arguing that the tapes are degrading to the female gender as a whole because it depicts women as drunken "sluts" and reinforces the idea that this negative image/stereotype of "sexy" is the most desireable among males. As for whose to blame, that could be anybody - the media, the GGW corp., the girls on the tapes, society, etc. One has to realize that things of this nature are detrimental to a gender/race/faction of society before measures are taken to correct it.

[ism]

Article about GGW (http://www.arizonarepublic.com/news/articles/0201girlsgonewild01.html)

"Girls are much more free and open now than they were before I started" - Joe Francis

"I'd think it was cool if I knew a girl who did that" - Male college student

postmodern quote of the day:
"People are entitled to go to a beach and have fun and get crazy. The problem is when it's filmed, put into a narrative context, i.e. the 'reality of Girls Gone Wild,' and downloaded onto a server so that people everywhere can see women as exploited body parts instead of women who went to a beach and had fun." - media arts professor