kazaa gettin sued; so...what's next?

[pfc beansprout]

http://www.cnn.com/2003/TECH/internet/01/1...l.ap/index.html (http://www.cnn.com/2003/TECH/internet/01/13/music.trial.ap/index.html)




they might be goin down here...where else are you gonna get your music?

[SunWuKong]

ahh... how exactly are US courts legally going to regulate them? i mean outside of freezing all their business dealings in the US?

[Fireblade]

win mx ppl. It looks crappy, but it works. Too bad connect speeds are really bad.
Crap! IF Kaaza shuts down, where the hell am I gonna get my anime/movies/car videos/etc?!!!!!!

First napster now Kaaza. Fuck Metallica. I wish them good on their deaths. Bastards.

:angry:

[Dean]

Whatever happend to Morpheus? Before Kazaa, I was using them like crazy!

:D

[VV o n g B a]

Originally posted by SunWuKung@Jan 14 2003, 12:47 AM
ahh... how exactly are US courts legally going to regulate them? i mean outside of freezing all their business dealings in the US?
seriously... they have no centralized servers. even if they shut kazaa the business down, they can't stop what's already out there.

[wylin]

Originally posted by Dean@Jan 14 2003, 10:03 AM
Whatever happend to Morpheus? Before Kazaa, I was using them like crazy!

:D
morpheus and kazaa and kazaa lite all work off the same shamman networks kazaa network.

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by VV o n g B a@Jan 14 2003, 01:15 PM
seriously... they have no centralized servers. even if they shut kazaa the business down, they can't stop what's already out there.
well that wasn't really my point. kazaa is not based in the US. i'm not sure i understand how US courts plan on regulating them.

but actually i don't think kazaa is completely decentralised.

[VV o n g B a]

Kazaa Halts Download Distribution By Brad King
Story location: http://www.wired.com/news/mp3/0,1285,49831,00.html

02:00 AM Jan. 18, 2002 PT


Niklas Zennstrom is the next Shawn Fanning of peer-to-peer file sharing.

Like Fanning and the Napster saga that dragged on for all of last year, the Dutch businessman on Thursday stopped distribution of the popular Kazaa file-trading application while he contends with copyright infringement lawsuits.

Users who searched for the program received this message: "Download of the Kazaa Media desktop software is temporarily and voluntarily suspended pending Dutch court decision on January 31."

Zennstrom's move comes as he prepares to fight separate lawsuits in the Netherlands and the United States.

The Recording Industry Association of America named Zennstrom's company Consumer Empowerment as a defendant in a U.S. lawsuit last October. Then Buma/Stemra, a copyright watchdog organization, sued Kazaa one month later. The U.S. trial is expected to begin soon, but a Dutch judge already ordered Kazaa to remove infringing content. Company executives said it was impossible to comply because of the nature of the system.

Unlike Napster, Kazaa doesn't have one central network that can be shut down. Instead, each user's computer becomes a virtual server making it very difficult to stop.

The Kazaa desktop application uses FastTrack, a technology licensed by Consumer Empowerment to create the virtual servers. If one computer shuts down, the network continues to function in the same manner a spider web will not collapse if one string is removed.

To shut down a decentralized system, each user would have to be blocked from the Internet. That would be difficult since nearly 1 million people downloaded the application last week.

The Dutch lawsuit is an important step for the motion picture and recording industries. With the Napster network stopped, the entertainment industry is searching for a way to shutter decentralized services. A major hurdle is discouraging anyone new from releasing the software that enables this type of file sharing.

Kazaa is one of a handful of applications that people now use to trade billions of files each month. The entertainment industry's concern is that as demand for free music and movies continues to grow, programmers will continue to develop these desktop connections.

The United States copyright industry has increasingly pressed other countries to adopt provisions of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, the controversial legislation that gives content companies control of Internet distribution, said Fred von Lohmann, senior staff attorney with the Electronic Frontier Foundation.

That would make it simpler to prosecute programmers living in countries outside America. The World Intellectual Property Organization is close to ratifying a treaty that would allow businesses to enforce copyrights across international borders.

The stakes for an individual such as Zennstrom were raised this year when the U.S. DVD Copy Control Association and the Norwegian Motion Picture Association asked for the prosecution of teen hacker Jon Johansen, who created a software application that bypassed DCD digital rights management security.

Zennstrom also faces trouble in the United States. Consumer Empowerment was named as a defendant in a series of lawsuits filed by the motion picture and recording industries. The licensing company provides the FastTrack technology to several U.S. companies that have created decentralized file-trading networks.

The RIAA declined comment on Kazaa's decision to stop distributing its software.

Reuters contributed to this report.

[Hanuman]

I use limewire. I'm a mac person and the others don't work on a mac. It's so-so. can't find half the stuff i'm looking for.

[igcognito]

WINMX and Direct Connect!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That is all I use, and WINMX, has Asian Servers so you can get import stuff, my friend gets stuff there. I can't read the user messages so I don't use that server.

[Chris]

WinMx is my ONLY resource for all my p2p downloading.l heheh once you get the handle of how to use it. It quite easy.

[AltimaGTR]

I use Direct Connect and Mirc for my file needs. Mirc is a bit confusing at first, but its the most flexible one out there.

[BaiginLong]

Originally posted by wylin@Jan 14 2003, 12:16 PM
Originally posted by Dean@Jan 14 2003, 10:03 AM
Whatever happend to Morpheus? Before Kazaa, I was using them like crazy!

:D
morpheus and kazaa and kazaa lite all work off the same shamman networks kazaa network.
not anymore
they use the gnutella network now

[princess]

gnutella is awesome

[BaiginLong]

Originally posted by BaiginLong@Jan 19 2003, 01:51 AM
Originally posted by wylin@Jan 14 2003, 12:16 PM
Originally posted by Dean@Jan 14 2003, 10:03 AM
Whatever happend to Morpheus? Before Kazaa, I was using them like crazy!

:D
morpheus and kazaa and kazaa lite all work off the same shamman networks kazaa network.
not anymore
they use the gnutella network now
err I was talking about Morpheus that is Kazaa shtill uses it's own stuff exclusively but Morpheus lost the liscense for it when Kazaa changed management

[lethal]

I personally think this decision will be overturned because of the due process issues. A suspect should have the right to be heard before personal info has to be turned over.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?...22/MN158912.DTL (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2003/01/22/MN158912.DTL)

ISPs ordered to turn over the names of suspected copyright violaters.

The entertainment industry's fight against online music piracy received a big boost Tuesday when a federal judge ruled that Internet service providers must hand over the names of suspected copyright violators upon request.

The ruling could make it easier for the entertainment industry to track down individual copyright violators. In the past, a copyright holder has needed to get a judge's order to obtain data on individual violators.

While the music business applauded, consumer groups and legal analysts expressed concern that the ruling, in response to a request filed against Verizon Communications Inc. by the Recording Industry Association of America, could deal a dangerous blow to the privacy rights of every Internet user.

After obtaining information about a suspected violator, the copyright holder could issue a warning and eventually could take the violator to court.

Verizon plans to appeal the ruling, which has "troubling ramifications for consumers, service providers and the growth of the Internet," said Sarah Deutsch, the company's vice president and associate general counsel.

"It opens the door for anyone who makes a mere allegation of copyright infringement to gain complete access to private subscriber information without the due process protections afforded by the courts," Deutsch said in a written statement.

Verizon's appeal, probably in federal appeals court in Washington, D.C., would be the next chapter in a legal dispute that started last summer. The record industry, using special subpoena powers granted to copyright holders under the 1998 Digital Millennium Copyright Act, asked Verizon Internet to turn over the name of one individual customer suspected of copyright infringement.

Record industry officials have said the customer, who was not identified, was a "very egregious user" of the popular online file swapping program Kazaa and was illegally sharing 666 songs.


SALES SLUMP
The trade group represents the world's biggest record companies, which are in the throes of an industrywide music sales slump they blame in large part on users of programs such as Kazaa, which allow anyone with an Internet-connected computer to swap free copies of digital music files. In the years since the now-defunct Napster file-sharing software first hit cyberspace in 1999, billions of such copyrighted digital files have been downloaded.

Although the music industry has been the focus of online copyright violations, the motion picture industry also has been watching the issue and this case, which could affect Hollywood's ability to track down people who are downloading bootleg copies of movies. Major entertainment companies are asking courts to shut down programs such as Kazaa, which by one measure has been downloaded about 180 million times worldwide.

The record industry was hoping to speed up the process of tracking down and stopping some of the individual downloaders by evoking special subpoena powers granted under the 1998 copyright law.

Verizon, however, refused to comply, saying the subpoena would infringe on the privacy rights of customers. Verizon would have turned the customer over had the record industry filed a lawsuit, which would have required a judge to make sure the customer's normal legal protections were intact.


DELAYS CALLED HARMFUL
In a 37-page ruling, U.S. District Court Judge John Bates in Washington held that the delays normally associated with lawsuits would harm the Recording Industry Association of America's ability to protect its copyrights.

"Under Verizon's reading of the act, a significant amount of potential copyright infringement would be shielded from the subpoena authority" of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, Bates wrote.

"That would, in effect, give Internet copyright infringers shelter from the long arm of the (copyright act) subpoena power and allow infringement to flourish," the judge wrote.

"It is also clear that the First Amendment does not protect copyright infringement. . . . Nor is this an instance where the anonymity of an Internet user merits free speech and privacy protections."

Recording Industry Association of America President Cary Sherman said the ruling "validates our interpretation" of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act.

"The illegal distribution of music on the Internet is a serious issue for musicians, songwriters and other copyright owners, and the record companies have made great strides in addressing this problem by educating consumers and providing them with legitimate alternatives."

Sherman added that the association looks "forward to contacting the account holder whose identity we were seeking so we can let them know that what they are doing is illegal."


'CHILLING EFFECT' FEARED
But the record industry will have to wait. Internet service providers appear willing to dig in and fight for their customers' privacy. Many Internet firms fear this could diminish use of the worldwide network.

"This case will have a chilling effect on private communications, such as e- mail, surfing the Internet, or the sending of files between private parties," Verizon's Deutsch said.

The ruling opens the door for "a lot of abuse," said Washington attorney Megan Gray, who filed a brief supporting Verizon on behalf of several public interest groups, including San Francisco's Electronic Frontier Foundation.

One example, she said, is a file sharer who wrongly received a notice of violating the copyright act because he was sharing a file named "Harry Potter, " which turned out to be a child's book report.

"We just want someone other than the copyright owner to make sure everything is kosher, because this is the premise of democracy -- a system of checks and balances," Gray said.

[tapestrybabe]

ppl have been recording music way before mp3's... copying music on tape cassettes and than sharing them that way... i dont see what the big deal is with mp3's...

and take free public libraries... isnt that that kinda like file sharing... you have one book... that can be shared to billions of other ppl... without anyone having to pay a penny for it...

[LoneSwordsman]

i really hope that decision will be overturned

[princess]

Originally posted by tapestrybabe@Jan 23 2003, 05:25 PM
ppl have been recording music way before mp3's... copying music on tape cassettes and than sharing them that way... i dont see what the big deal is with mp3's...

and take free public libraries... isnt that that kinda like file sharing... you have one book... that can be shared to billions of other ppl... without anyone having to pay a penny for it...
the quality of tapes is really bad

[Chris]

win mx is still around. I wont be complaining

[princess]

i cant use win mx on my comp. gnutella all the way

[Azn Retribution]

kazaa will never be sued.

Why? because two parts of the business are based on countries/islands known to be "tax havens" such as the cayman islands. those parts are the company itself, and the servers, the employees are in australia
so the RIAA and Holywood can't figure out who to sue.
and much less if there is any durisdiction over them.
all they can do now is go after the users
but they can't do that!
and alienate all their customers?
Fucked if you do, and Fucked if you don't
Thats what you get with not adapting your business.

People would have paid 10 - 20 dollars for napster a month at its height or even audiogalaxy.
talk about short-sighted.

[bigwong235]

soulseek. get all my dancing vids from there... haven't tried to look for mp3's and whatnot though.

[LoneSwordsman]

kazaa getting sued?
here is what's next......lol

http://rss.com.com/2100-1023-982344.html
Kazaa strikes back at Hollywood, labels

Sharman Networks, owner of the popular Kazaa file-swapping software, has launched a legal counterstrike against the major record labels and Hollywood studios, asserting that they have “obscenely” abused their copyright powers.

In a lawsuit filed late Monday in federal court in Los Angeles, Sharman claims that major entertainment companies have colluded to drive potential online rivals out of business. The conduct should preclude the industry from being able to defend its copyrights in court, at least until the behavior is corrected, Sharman contends.

The lawsuit is a counterstrike by Sharman, which has been sued for allegedly contributing to massive online copyright infringement. Last week , a federal judge ruled that record companies and movie studios could proceed with their lawsuit against Sharman.

The entertainment industry considers Sharman to be as much an outlaw as Napster and Aimster, two file-sharing services that have been shuttered. But Sharman executives say their business is fundamentally different because the company was created to take advantage of legal online distribution.

“What the industry is incapable of doing is realizing that Kazaa is different,” said Sharman attorney Rod Dorman. “Now (they) have got to face the legal consequences.”

The lawsuit marks a significant development in the most critical online copyright case since the disappearance of Napster. Sharman is being sued along with Grokster and Morpheus parent Streamcast Networks. The popularity of Kazaa, the leading file-trading service in the United States, has brought it to the top of copyright holders’ list of online enemies.

Sharman purchased the Kazaa software in early 2002 and planned to make money by distributing authorized, copy-protected content, its attorneys said.

Other companies, however, also have entered the file-swapping business contending that their plans were legal. Early entrant Scour turned on its file-trading service only after seeking the advice of top Hollywood copyright lawyers. But that didn’t prevent it from being sued and driven out of business.

The “legal consequences” Sharman is seeking are potentially severe. Sharman is asking the judge to declare the copyright holders guilty of antitrust and related violations, and to bar them from enforcing any of their copyrights.

According to the lawsuit, Sharman and a partner called Altnet met repeatedly with movie and music industry executives over the course of 2002, seeking to license copy-protected content for online distribution. Providing legal, authorized versions of popular entertainment content would help mitigate piracy on the file-swapping system, Sharman and Altnet said.

A few industry executives were interested, but were “repeatedly instructed” not to pursue relationships with Sharman or Altnet by the Recording Industry Association of America and other trade groups, attorneys for Sharman said.

Altnet CEO Kevin Bermeister said Monday he supports Sharman’s claims.

"Altnet confirms the allegations made by Sharman, relating to Altnet, in its counterclaim against the record and motion picture industries,” Bermeister said in a prepared statement. “While we have seen a shift in consumers’ willingness to pay for the licensed content we now supply, that behavior would be further along if we enjoyed the full support and cooperation of the entertainment industries."

Recording industry executives have maintained that Sharman was created to take advantage of online piracy and that there is no need to negotiate with the company.

"Sharman and its cohort Kazaa, which built the world’s largest piracy network, premised on flouting copyright laws and not obtaining licensees, now claim that a lack of licensing has somehow inhibited their development," an RIAA representative said. "This proposition is laughable, but the real harm to creators and copyright owners is no joking matter."

Although unconventional, the copyright misuse and antitrust claims have been the sole bright spot in file-swapping companies’ repeated string of losses in court.

Last year, federal judge Marilyn Hall Patel ordered an investigation into the record labels’ licensing practices towards online companies and into the structure of Pressplay and Musicnet, services largely owned by record labels.

"The evidence now shows that the plaintiffs have licensed their catalogues of works for digital distribution in what could be an overreaching manner," Patel wrote in a February 2002 decision that was part of the Napster lawsuit. "The evidence also suggests the (record labels’) entry into the digital distribution marketplace may run afoul of antitrust laws."

Napster went out of business before that investigation or court case could be concluded. However, a United States Department of Justice antitrust investigation of the music labels, begun in 2001, has yet to conclude.

Meanwhile, some of the initial criticism of the labels’ reluctance to license to digital music companies has passed, as subscription services such as Listen.com’s Rhapsody have won rights to large music catalogs.

Along with the sweeping antitrust claims, Sharman’s legal defense rests on familiar grounds. The Kazaa software is a technology that has considerable non-infringing uses, and cannot therefore be deemed illegal, the company says. That argument harks back to a Supreme Court ruling defending the legality of the videocassette recorder against a copyright lawsuit mounted by the movie industry.

Judges have not given the “non-infringing use” argument much sway in previous file-swapping cases, but Sharman appears to have more to show than predecessors Napster and Aimster. Together, Sharman and Altnet distribute more than 15 million copy-protected files per month though the Kazaa network, the company says in its legal papers.

Kazaa’s own popularity has now outstripped Napster’s, even at its peak. The software has been downloaded at least 181 million times, according to Download.com, a software aggregation site owned by CNET Networks, publisher of News.com. Many of those downloads have been upgrades or duplicate copies, however.

The federal judge in the Sharman case is still considering separate requests by the copyright holders and Streamcast to decide the case quickly, without going to a full trial.

[Azn Retribution]

once again. they are trying to sue kazaa.
and thats ALL they can do. :lol:
they don't even know WHO to sue.
kazaa is baesd in three different countries
the US has *NO* jurisdiction for the most part

I find the counter-suit equally amusing
about time the industries got a taste of their own medicine.


GG 0wn3d.

[LoneSwordsman]

here was the article that says kazaa could be sued in the USA
http://rss.com.com/2100-1023-980274.html

[Hanuman]

Kazaa sues back!

Article (http://news.com.com/2100-1023-982344.html)


Sharman Networks, owner of the popular Kazaa file-swapping software, has launched a legal counterstrike against the major record labels and Hollywood studios, asserting that they have ?obscenely? abused their copyright powers.

In a lawsuit filed late Monday in federal court in Los Angeles, Sharman claims that major entertainment companies have colluded to drive potential online rivals out of business. The conduct should preclude the industry from being able to defend its copyrights in court, at least until the behavior is corrected, Sharman contends.

[ellsworth81]

Originally posted by princess@Jan 23 2003, 08:32 PM
i cant use win mx on my comp. gnutella all the way
i can't get either to work ... i wished winmx worked tho... any suggestions/tips anyone? there's a outgoing packet error or something ... i assume it's linked to some damned firewall issue

[DonDaBomb2]

It's most likely that you are behind a firewall. Where are you using your computer at?

[mope54]

I use kazaa for music and emule for everything else and never have a problem.