Do we even need mixed Asian role models?

[kimpossible]

Title says all.

[YuheiCarreau]

I think we need for existing athletes, actors, and other celebrities who are mixed to know that they don't have to hide their mixed heritage, to not be afraid to identify as one of their ethnicities (the controversy over Tiger Woods saying that he's also Asian, the possible controversy if Halle Berry chose to identify as White) when they've been portrayed as the other, and that, although they don't have to be a role model for their mixed people or even for just one of their ethnicities, they would be welcome.

Whether we need mixed Asian role models is a tougher question, as there are so few Asian American role models... Would a White-Asian mix overshadow any AA celebrity? Would AAs or White-Asian mixes accept a Black-Asian mix? On the one hand, I (like most people) have a pretty strong desire to see movies, watch sports, listen to music, etc. that has been produced by people like me for the consumption of people like me; on the other, I know that today's media usually takes a White-Asian mix and glamorizes him as "White like us... But with an exotic twist!", and pretty much the same for any other kind.

[Hiroshi2]

Yeah basically I guess Tiger Woods should do it for me, but unlike him I don't identify as "cablanasian" or whatever, just black/japanese.

I'm sure I have Caucasian somewhere in my blood, and I'm like 1/32 Cherokee Indian, but I don't identify with that because I just don't. It actually makes sense for me to identify as black/asian though.

There was another thread about this somewhere, but there are quite a few asian/blacks in the spotlight but they tend to not be so vocal about their hapaness.

I agree w/yuheicarreau, i would like to see more full-blooded asians as role models in the media as well, too though. and not just kung-fu movies either.

[YuheiCarreau]

Some Hapas want to identify as only one of their ethnicities, some as both, some as something new. The only identity I disagree with is "I'm just American", which I've only heard coming from total morons...

[angel nympho]

I don't even think we really NEEEEEEEED role models at all. The people we should REALLY be looking up to are the ones who really know. Our parents? Our teachers? Even our peers. And I think that probably one of the least defining characteristics of a role model is their ethnicity.

[Hiroshi2]

Originally posted by angel nympho@Dec 23 2002, 08:02 PM
I don't even think we really NEEEEEEEED role models at all.  The people we should REALLY be looking up to are the ones who really know.  Our parents? Our teachers?  Even our peers.  And I think that probably one of the least defining characteristics of a role model is their ethnicity.
Don't get me wrong. Tiger Woods, nor anyone else for that matter, would qualify as a role model for me. I guess I used to have role models when I was younger, but as I got older, I came to realize that I'm much too independent and free-thinking to have "role models". No one is quite like me, and although that may sound a bit too cliche', it's very true. I feel like the only one I can look up to is myself.

[Commando_turned_MD]

Nope........There's no need.....

[kimpossible]

What if it has a benefit for some people? Does this change your opinion at all?

[maldito]

The only identity I disagree with is "I'm just American", which I've only heard coming from total morons...

It's one thing to be proud to be an American. That's when you're talking as a whole, nationwide. But when people say things like that, kinda stupid when usually things like that are sparked b/c of ethnicity, not nationality. The whole "American" thing is annoying to me period. Redundant to me. Asian-Americans, Italian Americans, African Americans, Filipino-Americans, Japanese-Americans, Irish-Americans, just redundant. More so b/c of the fact that any ethnicity I heard of coming from people here I've assumed that they were Americans. If that's the case, then I am a Filipino American, Portuguese American, Chinese American and most importantly a Hawaiian American. :lol:

As for the whole "Role Model" thing, since I was a kid I never understood that concept. I always felt that people don't really need one. It's good to have one, but if there isn't want, no need to despair, do things for yourself, be the first to be that particular role model if need be. Believe in yourself.

[Green_Circle]

We most certainly do need role models. If you're contemplating a career or future, you need to know how unlevel the playing field is in the direction you wish to focus. You don't want to concentrate in a discipline that may take fifteen to twenty years without assurances that your goals won't be unfairly blocked. As we speak and you guys declare your majors, I'm sure that has to be in the back of your minds. Much props to the peeps who wish to break ground in specific fields where none of us have gone before due to discrimination. Even in baseball, for example, how many of us AA are striving toward that goal now? I'm sure parents have a strong voice in your career choices. They don't want you to waste your time in an area where it is unfairly 'protected' by certain races who shall go unnamed. These things need careful consideration. Not to discourage anyone but if you have kids that are heavily involved in the hip hop scene and want to be a rap star or to be a famous opera star, will you whole heartedly encourage them to follow their hearts and dreams? How about encouraging your little girl to follow Britney Spear's lead as a famous entertainer? Won't you sit them down and say, 'now let's think this through' for a second or two? It's wonderful to say you can be anything you want to if you set your mind to it, but let's figure all the pros and cons first. This world is unfair and we know it. No long term goals should be undertaken unless all considerations are dealt with and discussed.

[maldito]

Originally posted by Green_Circle@Dec 24 2002, 09:12 AM
We most certainly do need role models. If you're contemplating a career or future, you need to know how unlevel the playing field is in the direction you wish to focus. You don't want to concentrate in a discipline that may take fifteen to twenty years without assurances that your goals won't be unfairly blocked.
It's almost like saying wait for someone else to pave the way, have them go through all that red tape to make it easier for you. That's why I say if there aren't any, be one yourself for others. Nothing wrong with that. People always put too much emphasis on these "role models". And it is society who define who is a role model, it's usually not the role model themselves.

I understand how for some people to obtain their goals it might take awhile but I guess I say this b/c I've always been a "doer". I always wanted to be the one to be recognized for doing things first. *L* I had issues growing up being the middle of everything. Middle child, middle everything! :lol:

[angel nympho]

Originally posted by Green_Circle@Dec 24 2002, 05:12 PM
We most certainly do need role models. If you're contemplating a career or future, you need to know how unlevel the playing field is in the direction you wish to focus. You don't want to concentrate in a discipline that may take fifteen to twenty years without assurances that your goals won't be unfairly blocked. As we speak and you guys declare your majors, I'm sure that has to be in the back of your minds. Much props to the peeps who wish to break ground in specific fields where none of us have gone before due to discrimination. Even in baseball, for example, how many of us AA are striving toward that goal now? I'm sure parents have a strong voice in your career choices. They don't want you to waste your time in an area where it is unfairly 'protected' by certain races who shall go unnamed. These things need careful consideration. Not to discourage anyone but if you have kids that are heavily involved in the hip hop scene and want to be a rap star or to be a famous opera star, will you whole heartedly encourage them to follow their hearts and dreams? How about encouraging your little girl to follow Britney Spear's lead as a famous entertainer? Won't you sit them down and say, 'now let's think this through' for a second or two? It's wonderful to say you can be anything you want to if you set your mind to it, but let's figure all the pros and cons first. This world is unfair and we know it. No long term goals should be undertaken unless all considerations are dealt with and discussed.
No. My career choices are utterly unaffected by the idea that nobody has done it yet. It's not even in the BACK of my mind. I've actually never even thought about it until you brought it up with that post right there. Don't give props to people who break new ground in the same paragraph as you're telling people not to encourage career paths that might seem unlikely. I will wholehearted encourage my children to do WHATEVER their little hearts want. NO MATTER WHAT. The world will continue to be unbalanced as long as there are people out there who tell me I can't do something that I want to do. ...And the people out there who seem to be telling me I can't do something are people who say things like you just said. So I'm saying that it's thoughts like THAT that keep those playing fields unbalanced.

[YuheiCarreau]

Both AN and Maldito have said that we don't need role models to pattern ourselves after (I assume you two mean celebrity role models and not parental figures or older siblings or whatever). I would agree that I don't try to pattern my life after that of an athlete / actor / etc., Hapa or not; I also don't think it's necessary to have a person that's a role model for how to be a Hapa. However I do think it's good to have people you idolize or who inspire you in your chosen field or in life in general (favorite author, a painter whose work you try to build on, that sort of thing), and I do think it's good (but not necessary) to have idols who you share a background with.

[maldito]

Originally posted by YuheiCarreau@Dec 24 2002, 05:34 PM
Both AN and Maldito have said that we don't need role models to pattern ourselves after (I assume you two mean celebrity role models and not parental figures or older siblings or whatever).
Yes. With parents or someone older, it's more natural I guess. You try to be like them, whereas with celebraties, it's kinda different. Sports figures I guess I understand, to some extent, but still it's like looking for a public figure to pattern your goals after. It's not bad, just I think that people put too much "hype" into the role model thing. You see, you do, as simple as that.

However I do think it's good to have people you idolize or who inspire you in your chosen field or in life in general (favorite author, a painter whose work you try to build on, that sort of thing), and I do think it's good (but not necessary) to have idols who you share a background with.

Hmm, you've got a good point there. I mean if I see someone like Charles Berlitz, I say "Damn, I want to be able to speak many languages like him." You aim your goal towards that person. But to put people on a pedestal (sp?) and say that this makes them a role model, I mean who decides these things? I'm all for the unspoken word. See and do. :D

[maldito]

To those who feel they need a "hapa" role model. Let's say I became an actor or something well known. :lol: Just go w/ the flow.

So if you saw me on t.v. or if I were even some great athlete tailored to your needs or maybe not, how would me being mixed would be a role model for you? Or what would you expect me to do or say that would have you really look up to me?

[Green_Circle]

Maldito, Angel Nymph, Yuhei,

You all have excellent points! So what if none of us has gone there before?! You guys all passed the test. If you have that fire in your belly then don't let anyone dissuade or discourage you. If we all felt pigeonholed into 'acceptable' roles then we would keep perpetuating the stereotypes. We do need guys like you that have the balls to go ahead with what they want in life.

:lol:

[YuheiCarreau]

Originally posted by maldito@Dec 24 2002, 10:01 PM
To those who feel they need a "hapa" role model. Let's say I became an actor or something well known. :lol: Just go w/ the flow.

So if you saw me on t.v. or if I were even some great athlete tailored to your needs or maybe not, how would me being mixed would be a role model for you? Or what would you expect me to do or say that would have you really look up to me?
I suppose the best example to give would be the often referred-to Tiger Woods, who is a Hapa role model not because he's a good golfer but because he refuses to let what other people percieve him as become his definition of himself. I relate to him more in his dealings with the media over this subject than I do his sport (golf, blah). However, one thing I wouldn't expect him or you to do is to start speaking on behalf of all Hapas or trying to become the President of Hapaland in some way. That would just be you buying into the majority's misconception that a minority always represent his group and all other minorities instead of just representing himself.

[AliBabaIncorporated]

eh. personally I have no use for most of the Hapa media figures, who are effectively white, or the Asian-American media figures, who could be given plastic surgery and would then be effectively white. I really have very little in common with them aside from genes.

What really pisses me off is the number of mixed race people I see in the Chinese entertainment sphere who can't even speak Chinese. unless she's in a non-speaking role or photoshoot where her only purpose is to show off her body and attract male viewers. I mean, ABCs with heavy American accents are one things, but HK-born kids who never even bothered to learn to speak, and only got their jobs cuz of their parent's connections? ggaah :angry:

the only possible benefit I can think to having more mixed Asian male actors out there, that way, at least one is likely to have the same type of hair as me. so I could see what looks good around a mixed Asian face and is possible with this damn wavy-ass hair of mine that goes in whatever direction it pleases regardless of gel or brushing, rather than trying to grow it out to achieve some hairstyle that turns out to be impossible or require too much maintenance. until then i'll just keep getting haircuts every two weeks. (yes, my hair grows faster than you ever thought was humanly possible). yes, role models are good for something.

As for hapa writers and political commentators? I hardly consider them as role models. most of the time, I want to slap them for all the idiotic dogmas they're spreading about what mixed race people are like or should aspire to. Especially Phil Nash. I'd be perfectly happy to take as an intellectual role model, though not necessarily as a personal role model, any Asian-language speaking Hapa commenting on race relations in America. haven't seen one yet.

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by AliBabaIncorporated@Dec 25 2002, 03:31 AM
any Asian-language speaking Hapa commenting on race relations in America. haven't seen one yet.
how would you know they don't speak an asian language? or do you mean there aren't any asian language commentary on race relations in america by hapas?

[AliBabaIncorporated]

Originally posted by SunWuKung@Dec 25 2002, 04:39 PM
how would you know they don't speak an asian language?
Well, you can piece together quite a few details about someone's personal life if they have a decently long list of publications or a website with a biography on it.

Also, i've met people of pretty much most political persuasions I've seen in writing, but I have never met anyone who both espouses all the "best of both worlds" crap like EVERY SINGLE DAMN HAPA WRITER out there, and can actually function in both the worlds of their ancestral cultures.

[maldito]

Originally posted by AliBabaIncorporated@Dec 25 2002, 12:31 AM
eh. personally I have no use for most of the Hapa media figures, who are effectively white, or the Asian-American media figures, who could be given plastic surgery and would then be effectively white. I really have very little in common with them aside from genes.

I suppose the best example to give would be the often referred-to Tiger Woods, who is a Hapa role model not because he's a good golfer but because he refuses to let what other people percieve him as become his definition of himself. I relate to him more in his dealings with the media over this subject than I do his sport (golf, blah).

Ok, understood...you admire him for that. Being that they are mixed and has proven to not let others dictate what he is. Although anyone can tell you that, Tiger actually being mixed himself is an example of proof.
That's the deal with a hapa role model. As in my own example, the only ones who would really be able to relate are the ones of my mix. I can't relate to any of these people, mixed or not. I just can't b/c I have nothing in relation to them.

Even if Keanu Reeves were to be more into his Hawaiian culture, I don't think I'd still be able to relate to him. The only thing that we have in common is Hawaiian, Chinese and his Portuguese background which isn't mentioned. Other than that, I just can't relate.