The Chinese Discovered America, Says Controversial Historian

[YelloFello]

Perhaps old news for some of you folks...

The Chinese Discovered America, Author Claims

Book Says Voyagers Preceded Columbus by 70 Years

Columbus discovered America in 1492, any elementary school student will tell you. But an amateur historian says Columbus was about 70 years too late. The Chinese beat him to it in 1421, says Gavin Menzies, author of 1421, The Year China Discovered America."

I came to the astonishing conclusion that a huge Chinese fleet of 800 vessels had sailed from China in March 1421 and they'd circumnavigated the world and they had created settlements in North and South America, in Australia, New Zealand, across the Pacific and in the Indian Ocean," Menzies tells NPR's Bob Edwards in a Morning Edition interview.

Menzies claims "the first Europeans who reached the New World met Chinese people." He says there's also evidence from shipwrecks, linguistics, Chinese porcelain and jade and even diseases that were specific to China that were all found in the Americas.

His findings have stirred skepticism among historians. "But I don't think there's really much disagreement about my central thesis that the Chinese settled Pacific and Atlantic coasts of both North and South America long before Columbus set sail," Menzies says.

Source: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=907602


1421: The Year China Discovered the World
Gavin Menzies
Published by Bantam Press, London

In his first book, 1421, Gavin Menzies argues that a huge Chinese fleet circumnavigated and charted the world years before the first great European voyages of discovery. The evidence for this comes in many different forms: from shipwrecks and ancient maps, to local peoples accounts and their DNA.

Source: http://www.1421.tv/

[SunWuKong]

he's already written a second book about how the Chinese sparked the Renaissance.

[Broomer]

I'm a big believer that we did. We've always had a curious nature. Zhang He's a good example.

Anyway, it's not that extraordinary. The French discovered Australia before the British...
Damn! We could've had a country full of French babes...

Ka.

[eos]

I was just watching a documentary on this last night on the History Channel. Good stuff.

I believe that ancient Chinese discovered America first and that anyone who disagrees is a racist and just can't handle the truth.

[mrcfo]

I'm a big believer that we did. We've always had a curious nature. Zhang He's a good example.

Anyway, it's not that extraordinary. The French discovered Australia before the British...
Damn! We could've had a country full of French babes...

Ka.

Wasn't it the Dutch...the first Europeans who first arrived on the Western shores of Australia???

[Yeahman]

I watched a documentary about this too. The author is either motivated by book sales or he's crazy. The documentary spent an entire hour explaining his theory in great detail. Then it spent the next hour interviewing historians, including many Chinese historians, who universally disputed his claims.

The author comes across as an old white guy with an Asian fetish. He seems to have a problem with the idea that Europeans may have actually contributed something to the world.

[Broomer]

Wasn't it the Dutch...the first Europeans who first arrived on the Western shores of Australia???

It's an interesting point. There's a story that Australia's Aborigines may be descended from Vikings (or the dutch) that got lost at sea just North of Australia. They ended up marrying local tribes and then migrated South.

BTW, before Capt Cook claimed the place, the French wasn't far away. The bugger saw a bit of a desert, said it was crap and left. At the same time, Cook found out that the French was following behind (what else is new?), pretty much just panicked and claimed it for HRH.

Ka.

[SunWuKong]

BTW, we've got a thread about Menzies' new book:

http://forums.yellowworld.org/showthread.php?t=34947

[Sunflare]

All the facts presented in this discussion makes we wonder why the United States still even recognizes Columbus day as a national holiday when the idea that Columbus discovered America was a lie to begin with ?

I don't think all of the states even recognizes the holiday anymore, but still ..... why a holiday in honor of the person who was practically responsible for initiating the violent Spanish conquest of the Americas and the unspeakable suffering the conquistadors caused for the Native Americans ?

[Broomer]

All the facts presented in this discussion makes we wonder why the United States still even recognizes Columbus day as a national holiday when the idea that Columbus discovered America was a lie to begin with ?

I don't think all of the states even recognizes the holiday anymore, but still ..... why a holiday in honor of the person who was practically responsible for initiating the violent Spanish conquest of the Americas and the unspeakable suffering the conquistadors caused for the Native Americans ?

Same reason why there's now an undercurrent with Australia Day as well.
I guess the west would be pretty ticked off if we started celebrating the Boxer rebellion.

Ka.

[SunWuKong]

All the facts presented in this discussion makes we wonder why the United States still even recognizes Columbus day as a national holiday when the idea that Columbus discovered America was a lie to begin with ?

I don't think all of the states even recognizes the holiday anymore, but still ..... why a holiday in honor of the person who was practically responsible for initiating the violent Spanish conquest of the Americas and the unspeakable suffering the conquistadors caused for the Native Americans ?

without getting into Columbus' role in history...

does anybody actually celebrate Columbus Day? to me it's just a day off to chill at home.

[yoMAMA]

without getting into Columbus' role in history...

does anybody actually celebrate Columbus Day? to me it's just a day off to chill at home.

not me, i don't celebrate that mass murderer.

[Sunflare]

without getting into Columbus' role in history...

does anybody actually celebrate Columbus Day? to me it's just a day off to chill at home.

Today there are still some supporters of this holiday that was originally enacted by FDR in 1937 at the urging of the Knights of Columbus. The Knights of Columbus was an offshoot of the original KKK I believe.

There are still some moronic teachers who would plaster lolicon like images of Columbus and little Indians all over the windows in the public schools across the nation and give special teaching lessons and workshops on the week before Columbus Day for the elementary school children teaching these poor kids lies.

In some cities and towns in some states there are still annual Columbus Day parades even. Last year there were protests during the Columbus Day parade in Denver, Colorado , over 80 persons were arrested. In New York, NY and I may be mistaken but Los Angeles and San Fransisco, CA too I think, there are still Columbus Day parades even though the events are under different names now, because of the controversy that was sparked after the protests in Denver. In New York on the other hand it is still known as simply the Columbus Day parade. Thank the Italian Americans for that. They view the voyages of Columbus as an intricate part of history that defines their Italian heritage.

So in that context, yes, there are still some who celebrate this holiday still.

[Yeahman]

Columbus Day is a largely Italian-American holiday around here.

All the facts presented in this discussion makes we wonder why the United States still even recognizes Columbus day as a national holiday when the idea that Columbus discovered America was a lie to begin with ?
What "facts" are you referring to? Don't tell me you believe the Chinese "discovered" America.
Columbus was the first non-native to colonize the Americas. A major accomplishment. I don't think he should be celebrated but there's no doubt that he had a tremendous impact on the course of human history.

The Knights of Columbus was an offshoot of the original KKK I believe.
Reading those internet conspiracy websites again?

Anyhow, the name is a major reason why I wouldn't join the Knights. An unfortunately choice.

[Sunflare]

What "facts" are you referring to?

I'm using the word 'facts' in a very generalized manner as a way of refering to the informative points the other posters brought up in this thread.

Reading those internet conspiracy websites again?

Anyhow, the name is a major reason why I wouldn't join the Knights. An unfortunately choice.

My stepdad taught me alot about the KKK and it's activities. His family endured alot of persecution from the white supremacist groups. That's why I know what I know.

[mrcfo]

This is turning somewhat into a Simpson's episode....

[cloudzero]

who, the, hell, cares

not like asians should take credit for something OTHER asians did
this is like sports fans feeling surperior when their team wins just because they from the same city. how stupid is that?

[Sunflare]

who, the, hell, cares

not like asians should take credit for something OTHER asians did
this is like sports fans feeling surperior when their team wins just because they from the same city. how stupid is that?

The problem is that there are not enough Asians that have a sense of pride in their own heritage. Rooting for a sports team and expressing a sense of pride in your own Asian cultural heritage is two totally separate things altogether.

Believe me, you are entitled to your opinion, and I am not trying to invalidate it. I'm just expressing mine which is in slight disagreement with your analogy. In itself I thought it was a good analogy help others to visualize your arguments.

But again, I think more APAs need to show more of a sense of pride and appreciation in their heritage. I think that's what I am trying to say.

[cloudzero]

so you are saying asians on this forum should feel good if what this historian says is true. even though we, as individuals, have nothing to do with it.

i recall a white nationalist showing up in this forum, saying that asians are stealing the white man's technology. yes, all those science units are named after europeans, but he as an individual didn't contribute to any of it. his sense of pride was only because he was white.

when you group people together, most often by race, people take credit for things they didnt do. that is as often as taking blame for crimes you didn't commit.

i used to be like that, but with a little education i philosophy, you change your whole mindset

[Sunflare]

so you are saying asians on this forum should feel good if what this historian says is true. even though we, as individuals, have nothing to do with it.


when you group people together, most often by race, people take credit for things they didnt do. that is as often as taking blame for crimes you didn't commit.

i used to be like that, but with a little education i philosophy, you change your whole mindset

I can understand and appreciate your individualistic approach to perceiving matters and theories concerning world events . Expressing that sort of outlook on one's self and society has it's benefits definitely. And yes it is true that the fact the Chinese discovered America is at this point not entirely proven. ( Anyone can correct me if I'm wrong. ) If this theory is eventually proven by fact to be true and factual then great. If not then yes you are right, it *would* look silly if we preach if we discovered America first without the facts to back up what we may believe is true.

It's a very difficult thing to try and find truthfulness in matters concerning our culture, and other cultures and how that coincides with historical events and current events because of how scholars and the journalists and editors in the media had distorted the facts over the years making it difficult for anyone to accurately come to an informed conclusion concerning world events as it actually happened in the past and now as well. The screw ups with CNN and their recent coverage on the riots in Lhasa, Tibet is a very strong example of that. If the Washington Post did not put the CNN reporters in check with the inaccuracies and straight up lies in their reports, ( fueled by anti-Chinese western propaganda ) imagine how that information would have been archived into our history books for our children in the future to read. They will be taught all lies.

This is sort of my philosophy on this issue. I'm no intellectual expert, just a plain everyday dude, but this is what I believe, that we have to think and draw our own conclusions based on the biased information we receive. I'm sort of skeptical about what we find in the printed books and what we read on the internet. Because of that I have come to my own reflections on the world's past and what is currently going on in todays world, how it is presented to the public, and what lessons it can teach us as individuals.

[BillHoo]

All the facts presented in this discussion makes we wonder why the United States still even recognizes Columbus day as a national holiday when the idea that Columbus discovered America was a lie to begin with ?

I don't think all of the states even recognizes the holiday anymore, but still ..... why a holiday in honor of the person who was practically responsible for initiating the violent Spanish conquest of the Americas and the unspeakable suffering the conquistadors caused for the Native Americans ?

..And the fact the drunken idiot got lost on his way to India and his crew almost threw him overboard! He just got lucky. "Look! Look! I discoveered de america! See de indians!"

Actually, Amerigo Vespucci got there before him and that's what the continent was named after.

Vikings settle there hundreds of years beforehand.

Other Chinese crossed over the asiatic land brdige even thousands of years earlier in the last ice age. DNA eveidence proven in indigenous native americans.

Really, the US should re-release the holiday at American Discovery Day and recognize all of the contributors to this great land and its peoples.

[eos]

^I concur. I guess it's better than celebrating "Thank GOD America was discovered so we could all move here instead of staying in our respective God-forsaken hellholes"

[Yeahman]

..And the fact the drunken idiot got lost on his way to India and his crew almost threw him overboard! He just got lucky. "Look! Look! I discoveered de america! See de indians!"
He didn't get lost. There was a giant land mass in the way.
Lots of great "discoveries" come by way of "luck." As Thomas Jefferson said "I'm a great believer in luck and I find the harder I work, the more I have of it."

Actually, Amerigo Vespucci got there before him and that's what the continent was named after.
Amerigo came after Columbus.

Really, the US should re-release the holiday at American Discovery Day and recognize all of the contributors to this great land and its peoples.
Not a bad idea but realize that it would be a celebration of even more Europeans. Plus we don't have any accounts of people crossing the Bering which makes it somewhat difficult to celebrate.

[Adaon]

Eh. I don't celebrate, not since I've been outta grade school. I just enjoy the paid day off.

Why must there a celebration? Can we just NOT have Columbus day and re-name it as Italian Appreciation Day or something if we have to? Since ya know, it's not like Columbus landed in Haiti/Dominican Republic.

[AngryABCGirl]

I think Columbus Day is actually no longer a holiday or something like that via lobbying by Native Americans.

[Broomer]

Really, the US should re-release the holiday at American Discovery Day and recognize all of the contributors to this great land and its peoples.

Ain't just the US, Australia's the same. Australia is as strong as it is today because of it's immigrants.

Ka