hapas in HK tend to be raised Chinese...

[Jimmyboi]

Most hapas in HK are more "chinese" then Chinese-Americans like Daniel Wu.

just hear Michelle Reis, Karen Mok and Anthony Wong talk and compare their cantonese with dudes like Daniel Wu.

I also noticed that most hapas in HK, tend to marry a chinese guy/ girl instead of white.

e.g. did you know that Cecilia Cheung, Sonia Kwok and Bruce Lee are all 3/4 chinese. They all got hapa moms.

[kimpossible]

For a monoracial guy you're really into the mixed person thing.

[Craig]

I think he's looking for a hapa hunny to create 3/4 chinese kids with ...

[rice cracker]

I think it's rather obvious that people, mixed or not, would fall in line with the dominant culture. Speaking the language and understanding social mores and such.

[Paradox]

This is not surprising. In Thailand it's the same way, the hapas i've met are very Thai. They speak Thai and they don't really identify with being "white" so much as being Thai or "luk kreung" mixed blooded Thai and they almost always date other Thais. There's a very strong hapa identity in Thailand and they are pretty cool with it.

It's refreshing to see people unashamed and even proud of their asian heritage and I think what rice cracker says is true. It really depends on what the dominant culture is.

[BillBlythe]

This is not surprising. In Thailand it's the same way, the hapas i've met are very Thai. They speak Thai and they don't really identify with being "white" so much as being Thai or "luk kreung" mixed blooded Thai and they almost always date other Thais. There's a very strong hapa identity in Thailand and they are pretty cool with it.

It's refreshing to see people unashamed and even proud of their asian heritage and I think what rice cracker says is true. It really depends on what the dominant culture is.

Even though farangs and luk kreungs are exalted over there, the dominant culture is still very much Thai, amiright? If so, I don't think it's a good litmus test for culture pride.

Not making any judgments on people, or Thai people in particular, but that's just the way it is.

[BeTheReds]

Most hapas in HK are more "chinese" then Chinese-Americans like Daniel Wu.

just hear Michelle Reis, Karen Mok and Anthony Wong talk and compare their cantonese with dudes like Daniel Wu.

I also noticed that most hapas in HK, tend to marry a chinese guy/ girl instead of white.

e.g. did you know that Cecilia Cheung, Sonia Kwok and Bruce Lee are all 3/4 chinese. They all got hapa moms.

I love how all your evidence is 3 or 4 celebrities.

I agree more with Rice Cracker. Her argument actually makes sense.

[kimpossible]

I don't get the point of developing a HK celeb litmus test strategy and applying it to "hapas". This is thread number two on the subject, yeah? While it's not negative or anything I guess it's still interesting that the current 20-30 something AAs rely heavily on pop stars or celebs when considering us run of the mill mortal grunt mixed ppl.

[Sunflare]

Jimmyboi, can I give you a suggestion? Go to the hapa resources thread (http://forums.yellowworld.org/showthread.php?t=3149) and check out the links provided. It will help you to increase your knowledge and understanding of the overall Hapa experience and help you in producing better quality posts for the Hello Hapas forum.

I was on EurasianNation (http://www.eurasiannation.com/) the night before and was reading some interesting articles. Learned new things about the Eurasian experience I was not previously aware of.

[tommyhtown]

This is not surprising. In Thailand it's the same way, the hapas i've met are very Thai. They speak Thai and they don't really identify with being "white" so much as being Thai or "luk kreung" mixed blooded Thai and they almost always date other Thais. There's a very strong hapa identity in Thailand and they are pretty cool with it.

It's refreshing to see people unashamed and even proud of their asian heritage and I think what rice cracker says is true. It really depends on what the dominant culture is.

I am curious about the hapa identitiy in Thailand you are speaking of? I am not sure what you mean. And they are cool with what?

[Paradox]

I am curious about the hapa identitiy in Thailand you are speaking of? I am not sure what you mean. And they are cool with what?
?

I mean they are cool with being Thai mixed and fully acknowledge their hapaness. This is in contrast to hapas you meet in America sometimes who deny they are mixed and try hard to identify with white only.

[BeTheReds]

?

I mean they are cool with being Thai mixed and fully acknowledge their hapaness. This is in contrast to hapas you meet in America sometimes who deny they are mixed and try hard to identify with white only.

Speak for yourself...

Besides, most of the time it's not the hapa that doesn't want to ID as Asian, it's the Asians who dont want to include the hapa...

[tommyhtown]

?

I mean they are cool with being Thai mixed and fully acknowledge their hapaness. This is in contrast to hapas you meet in America sometimes who deny they are mixed and try hard to identify with white only.

Oh ok, I thought you were referring to something more along the line of special hapa identity in Thailand or something. But as stated in previous posts, isn't the tendency for most people to fall into dominant culture anyway?

Also, I have met quite a few jerks in Thailand who act all superior because they are hapa also. In their case, they pulll out their white card to put down others. I don't think 'the hapa identity' you spoke of in Thailand is any better than here. I guess there are shmucks anywhere, Thailand or US, and hapas or not.

[Sunflare]

?

I mean they are cool with being Thai mixed and fully acknowledge their hapaness. This is in contrast to hapas you meet in America sometimes who deny they are mixed and try hard to identify with white only.
Speak for yourself...

Besides, most of the time it's not the hapa that doesn't want to ID as Asian, it's the Asians who dont want to include the hapa...

I agree. This is a problem that is happening right here in the U.S.-- to Eurasians and Afro-Asians alike. They are all pressured not to identify with their non-Asian heritage because sometimes they are sadly rejected out of Asian circles. With nowhere else to go with anything to identify themselves with they mingle with the dominant Caucasian of Afro American crowds instead.

Many hapas really do have a earnest desire to identify themselves as Asian rather then white, black, or whatever the case may be but many unfortunately subcumb under the social pressures to reject their Asian heritage.

The end result are hapas who identify themselves more with whites or persons who are Blasians in secret.

There is more to it then that but that's a factor to consider I think as to why we see Hapas in the situation that they are in.

[BeTheReds]

I agree. This is a problem that is happening right here in the U.S.-- to Eurasians and Afro-Asians alike. They are all pressured not to identify with their non-Asian heritage because sometimes they are sadly rejected out of Asian circles. With nowhere else to go with anything to identify themselves with they mingle with the dominant Caucasian of Afro American crowds instead.

Many hapas really do have a earnest desire to identify themselves as Asian rather then white, black, or whatever the case may be but many unfortunately subcumb under the social pressures to reject their Asian heritage.

The end result are hapas who identify themselves more with whites or persons who are Blasians in secret.

There is more to it then that but that's a factor to consider I think as to why we see Hapas in the situation that they are in.


I wouldn't see it as any kind of social pressure. I've stated my view many times that for each individual hapa, it's an individual choice, either consious or not to identify however they do. Some identify as asian, others as non-asian, others as something totally different. Therefore, no one hapa can claim to speak with any authority on the matter other than talking about himself alone. This is why I think it's really retarded when people come in here and say... this is the way it is because I know this one hapa who is like this, or I know these 2 or 3 hapas who think like this. We aren't usually naturally connected to each other. Monoracials are. Monoracials have collective experience that can be discussed easily. Hapas have no collective experience apart from their siblings, or if they were raised in an area with a HUGE hapa population.

[Sunflare]

I wouldn't see it as any kind of social pressure. I've stated my view many times that for each individual hapa, it's an individual choice, either consious or not to identify however they do.

I don't think it it really that simple. There are many outside elements that affects hapas (or blasians) and his or her desicion as to how she wants to identify himself/herself by. Did'nt rice cracker just say that many hapas usually fall in line with the dominant culture in reply to Jimmyboi's original post?

Well then isn't that the same situation in the United States with Hapas then as well? For the most part, there is a dominant Anglo-American culture followed by a stong Afro-American culture behind that. The influence is powerful and coming from many aspects influencing people in the way they think, behave dress and identify themselves as Americans. Many hapas are under pressure to conform to that dominant American cuture I just described and in many cases they do that and throw out their Asian heritage so they can be more popular and accepted by that dominant mainstream society without difficulties.

I've stated my view many times that for each individual hapa, it's an individual choice, either consious or not to identify however they do.

Now you've just stated that many Hapas either conciously or unconciously choose to identify themselves as they do. How can we say that a hapa is choosing to unconciously identify themselves by choice if they are unaware of the choice that they are making in the first place? With all due respect and not to challenge your views, but that does not make sense to me.

Therefore, no one hapa can claim to speak with any authority on the matter other than talking about himself alone. This is why I think it's really retarded when people come in here and say... this is the way it is because I know this one hapa who is like this, or I know these 2 or 3 hapas who think like this. We aren't usually naturally connected to each other.

Now that is a matter of pure opinion so I wont argue that point. Nor am I trying to blow a trumpet ahead of me and speak with authority. I'm just stating my take on this subject. I have a right to speak my mind.

But I'll tell you this much --- I did'nt base my viewpoints on 1 or 2 hapas that I met in my life. In fact, I met dozens and dozens of hapas and blasians for that matter who faced these very challenges concerning identity I have just described to you. So I don't think I'm just basing my observations by mere delusional thinking off a few hapa celebrities I saw on TV or one or two hapa friends that I may have. I'm speaking from what I have heard from discussions with people face to face apart from online discussions on APA forums and yes, from personal experience, to an extent. Note that I am trying hard to answer your post objectively and not put my personal feelings into this.

Now you don't have to take this negatively and look at this post as a rant or a personal attack. You can look at this rather as an attempt on my part to have a civilized, intelligent respectful debate with you.

Any further points from you will be greatly appreciated.

[BeTheReds]

I don't think it it really that simple. There are many outside elements that affects hapas (or blasians) and his or her desicion as to how she wants to identify himself/herself by. Did'nt rice cracker just say that many hapas usually fall in line with the dominant culture in reply to Jimmyboi's original post?

Yes, and if you read the other parts of the thread you will see that I also agreed with her.


Well then isn't that the same situation in the United States with Hapas then as well? For the most part, there is a dominant Anglo-American culture followed by a stong Afro-American culture behind that. The influence is powerful and coming from many aspects influencing people in the way they think, behave dress and identify themselves as Americans. Many hapas are under pressure to conform to that dominant American cuture I just described and in many cases they do that and throw out their Asian heritage so they can be more popular and accepted by that dominant mainstream society without difficulties.

Sure.. but there's not any real pressure any more than what any other minority might go through. I don't know... from my own experience maybe, (which is all I am allowed to talk about with any authority) Whites have never been the ones to tell me to stop acting Asian cuz I am not, it's mainly been Asian Americans.


Now you've just stated that many Hapas either conciously or unconciously choose to identify themselves as they do. How can we say that a hapa is choosing to unconciously identify themselves by choice if they are unaware of the choice that they are making in the first place? With all due respect and not to challenge your views, but that does not make sense to me.

Dude, your identity is up to you... You self identify however you do because of your own experiences and desires.


Now that is a matter of pure opinion so I wont argue that point. Nor am I trying to blow a trumpet ahead of me and speak with authority. I'm just stating my take on this subject. I have a right to speak my mind.

But I'll tell you this much --- I did'nt base my viewpoints on 1 or 2 hapas that I met in my life. In fact, I met dozens and dozens of hapas and blasians for that matter who faced these very challenges concerning identity I have just described to you. So I don't think I'm just basing my observations by mere delusional thinking off a few hapa celebrities I saw on TV or one or two hapa friends that I may have. I'm speaking from what I have heard from discussions with people face to face apart from online discussions on APA forums and yes, from personal experience, to an extent. Note that I am trying hard to answer your post objectively and not put my personal feelings into this.

Now you don't have to take this negatively and look at this post as a rant or a personal attack. You can look at this rather as an attempt on my part to have a civilized, intelligent respectful debate with you.

Any further points from you will be greatly appreciated.

Dude.. you really like to argue. I don't think the debate is with you. It's with the people who post stuff like this is how it is cuz i know one guy here who says this, when they aren't hapa themselves. While I said that nobody can claim to argue with any authority on hapaness, certainly hapas can argue about it with more authority than nonhapas. I'm not arguing with what you say because I don't know your hapa experience and it is undoubtedly different from mine.

[Sunflare]

Dude.. you really like to argue. I don't think the debate is with you. It's with the people who post stuff like this is how it is cuz i know one guy here who says this, when they aren't hapa themselves. While I said that nobody can claim to argue with any authority on hapaness, certainly hapas can argue about it with more authority than nonhapas. I'm not arguing with what you say because I don't know your hapa experience and it is undoubtedly different from mine.

Oh. I get you now. I understand. I sorta misunderstood the context your post. Now I have to admit I can agree and relate with most of your POVs expressed by your clarification on your previous post.

Pardon me for being so assertive.

[CBC guy]

Usually people will pick up the culture of whichever place they grew up in, thus hapas in the US might act more "American" and hapas in Asia will act more "Asian. That's just the way it is.

[Sunflare]

The reason the misunderstanding took place was because I as was responding to your post at the same time I was arguing with another YW Marfia member in another thread. So I was delirious and in the wrong frame in mind to begin with when I saw you post and misconstrued everything you said. Again my apologies.

Anyway, more of my ramblings on your thoughts now that I think I can see things correctly:

Therefore, no one hapa can claim to speak with any authority on the matter other than talking about himself alone.

Now I see where you are coming from. The variety with mixed Asians as far as their ethnicities are concerned is so vast, that it is very, very difficult for hapas to relate to one another. It's sad but true.

Hapas can be of Korean, Japanese, Chinese, Thai, Vietnamese, Italian, German, Afro-American, Irish, Indian, Hispanic, Nigerian, Burmanese, Filipino, Danish descent . . . . .and the list can go on and on. The variety in the dual ethnicities of mixed Asian Americans is daunting.

So because of the vast differences in backgrounds hapas cant really speak in authority like you said for ALL hapas on most things. I can remember from another discussion we had you stated that hapas dont have a country to name ourselves by or our own language or any other common ground in which to create any sort of unity at this point based solely on the fact that we are all hapas. That was a good analogy and now I can see the logic to it.

Monoracials have collective experience that can be discussed easily. Hapas have no collective experience apart from their siblings.

Tell me about it. Its not easy to every time explain someone about your experiences as a hapa to a person who is monoracial. Personally for that reason, I get annoyed sometimes when a person looks at me in bewilderment utter stupidity and ask me what my ethnicity is, and then when I tell them exactly what my dual heritage is they get perplexed irritable and confused because they can't understand or relate.

On top of that, there are many things that are personal to my experience positive or negative that I can't get other momoracial or even other biracial people to understand. Maybe its because I'm a case for the books but I think it's also something having to do with my unique dual heritage.

I'm not sure if that's what Eurasians go through exactly but that's the stuff I go through as a mixed Asian-American.

Sure.. but there's not any real pressure any more than what any other minority might go through. I don't know... from my own experience maybe, (which is all I am allowed to talk about with any authority)

Personally as an Afro-Asian I get the feeling that I was burning the candle at both ends. I had basically Afro-Americans AND Asian-Americans telling me to stop acting Asian. On top of that I had some whites who also tried to critisize me over my ambitions to identify myself as an Asian American despite the challenges.

Whites have never been the ones to tell me to stop acting Asian cuz I am not, it's mainly been Asian Americans.

I'll admit, I'll have to agree on that too from personal experience. I recieved alot of critisizm from other Asian Americans who look down on me because I am trying to understand my Asian heritage.

Even dating was a challenge. The few times I was in relationships with other pan-Asians was extremely difficult because of all the angry Asians out there who depised IR couples together in public. I remember the last time I dated an AF earlier this year I was cursed out by another AM because my lady was asking for directions. It wasn't pleasant. I just bit my toungue took my lady and walked away. I didnt feel like fighting with another APA over nonsense. I kept my cool.

I hope I'm not offending any other APAs here but I'm not making this up. That has been really my experience. I'll admit though some the reasons for this could be me. I am not exactly a saint either.

Anyway thats my take on your comments.

[kasia]

Most hapas in HK are more "chinese" then Chinese-Americans like Daniel Wu.

just hear Michelle Reis, Karen Mok and Anthony Wong talk and compare their cantonese with dudes like Daniel Wu.

I also noticed that most hapas in HK, tend to marry a chinese guy/ girl instead of white.

e.g. did you know that Cecilia Cheung, Sonia Kwok and Bruce Lee are all 3/4 chinese. They all got hapa moms.

you're talking about daniel wu who grew up in orinda which is right next to my hometown. we went to the same high school district and were part of the .1% asian population in our area. abc's in san francisco and oakland are a bit different.

what's the point of this thread?

[J Honcanese]

Most hapas in HK are more "chinese" then Chinese-Americans like Daniel Wu.

just hear Michelle Reis, Karen Mok and Anthony Wong talk and compare their cantonese with dudes like Daniel Wu.

I also noticed that most hapas in HK, tend to marry a chinese guy/ girl instead of white.

e.g. did you know that Cecilia Cheung, Sonia Kwok and Bruce Lee are all 3/4 chinese. They all got hapa moms.Do you have any statistical/factual evidence to support this argument?

I don't know about you, but I spent 15 years growing up in HK and I would really contest this theory. Yes, there are some hapas who have assimilated into HK's dominant culture, but I've met a lot of "normal" hapas who identify more with their non-Asian side because they aren't readily accepted by most other HKers. And then there are those hapas who aren't even part Chinese to begin with.

I had a number of hapa friends in my school and what struck me the most was that each of them had their own unique take on their cultural identity. There were white-looking ones who seemed to ignore their Asian side altogether, other white-looking ones who embraced both sides and spoke fluent Mandarin/Cantonese, Asian-looking ones who identified with both sides... combine that with all the different mixes and it's practically impossible to make a single broad statement that applies to all of them.

I'm not a hapa myself, but that's what I've learned from my past experiences.

[BeTheReds]

Do you have any statistical/factual evidence to support this argument?

I don't know about you, but I spent 15 years growing up in HK and I would really contest this theory. Yes, there are some hapas who have assimilated into HK's dominant culture, but I've met a lot of "normal" hapas who identify more with their non-Asian side because they aren't readily accepted by most other HKers. And then there are those hapas who aren't even part Chinese to begin with.

I had a number of hapa friends in my school and what struck me the most was that each of them had their own unique take on their cultural identity. There were white-looking ones who seemed to ignore their Asian side altogether, other white-looking ones who embraced both sides and spoke fluent Mandarin/Cantonese, Asian-looking ones who identified with both sides... combine that with all the different mixes and it's practically impossible to make a single broad statement that applies to all of them.

I'm not a hapa myself, but that's what I've learned from my past experiences.



How observant. A lot of times people just want to make a few observations and decide how to deal with people, rather than continue to make observations and treat people as individuals. Therein lies the problem.

I'm glad someone occasionally gets it.

[YelloFello]

Usually people will pick up the culture of whichever place they grew up in, thus hapas in the US might act more "American" and hapas in Asia will act more "Asian. That's just the way it is.

I agree with this statement and would like to emphasize the 'might' for hapas growing up in the U.S. (or Canada).

Of course, not all hapas think alike and not all will identify themselves in the same manner. However, it is likely that most hapas or the largest share of hapas will identify and/or associate more with one side, depending on the demographic profile (i.e. what is the dominant culture in terms of population size and political/social influence) of the country they grew up in and still live in.

Again, not all hapas think alike, but I'm sure that if one was to conduct a comprehensive study or poll on the entire hapa population in Hong Kong, there would be a skew towards a certain direction, whatever it may be (i.e. greater association with the dominant Chinese culture, or maybe something else for that matter). I don't know enough hapas personally, so I am not basing this on my experiences with them, but rather on common sense maybe?

Hong Kong is still overwhelming Chinese in population. From what I've seen in the census, white residents make up only a fraction of a percent of the total HK population (this figure probably only includes permanent residents). So obviously, most hapas will be influenced by Chinese culture and will associate with Chinese people since that's who they see everyday. The culture in HK is just overwhelmingly Chinese.

The situation in the U.S. and Canada is different because, although the dominant race is white, there are large Asian populations and even pockets of Asian-majority/dominated areas throughout several metropolitan areas across the continent. Some hapas may have grown up in largely white communities, whereas others may have grown up surrounded mostly by Asians.

There were some interesting (but not at all surprising) statistics I found a while ago on the UK national census web page regarding intermarriage among monoracial black males and biracial black/white males in the UK. I can't remember the exact figures, but something like 85-90% of UK black husbands had black spouses, whereas about 80-85% of UK biracial black/white husbands had white spouses. I may be off +/-5%, but you understand.

To me, these figures suggest that most biracial individuals do in fact have a tendency to associate with the larger dominant culture of their homeland.

... So the statement that 'hapas in HK tend to be raised Chinese' is probably not far off. Just add the word 'most' in front of hapas, then the statement may be more accurate... but I think the word 'tend' already accounts for that.

[BeTheReds]

I think you could erase hapas from the whole statement and put in humans instead. In most cases that would be true.

Humans in HK tend to be raised chinese. Humans in the US tend to be raised American. YAY...

I don't know enough hapas personally, so I am not basing this on my experiences with them, but rather on common sense maybe?

Well, you are trying to make a general statement about a population which can't be generally stated for.

Although in the case of HK hapas, it is likely that they all have Chinese ethnicity in common, and a shared history to a greater extent than in the US, and HK is smaller. therefore there is some kind of natural connectivity, so it wouldn't be too far of a stretch to suggest that people raised in HK speaking Chinese would be culturally Chinese.

The US is however different, so blanket statements can't be made, neither can common sense be applied.

[snow ninja]

when i was in HK, at stanley beach, in the market i saw a white guy with his hapa kids and he was speaking cantonese to them. You dont see that around here

[YelloFello]

I think you could erase hapas from the whole statement and put in humans instead. In most cases that would be true.

Humans in HK tend to be raised chinese. Humans in the US tend to be raised American. YAY...



Well, you are trying to make a general statement about a population which can't be generally stated for.

Although in the case of HK hapas, it is likely that they all have Chinese ethnicity in common, and a shared history to a greater extent than in the US, and HK is smaller. therefore there is some kind of natural connectivity, so it wouldn't be too far of a stretch to suggest that people raised in HK speaking Chinese would be culturally Chinese.

The US is however different, so blanket statements can't be made, neither can common sense be applied.


Humans in HK, hapa or not, tend to be raised Chinese. That's exactly it!!! I see that as common sense.

I already mentioned in my last post that the hapa experience in the U.S. and Canada is different, so yes, blanket statements cannot be made about their experience here in NA.

One cannot make very general statements about the collective hapa population since there are so many different types of hapa mixes, just like one cannot make general statements about the collective Asian population because there are different Asian ethnicities with different histories and experiences.

But I think one can generalize to a certain extent when you break down the population into more specific groups. Take the Chinese population in North America as one group of Asians, and then break down the population even further by singling-out those who were born and raised here.

There is some common ground that North-American born-and-raised Chinese will share that distinguishes themselves from the foreign-born Chinese. For instance, they are more likely to either have English as their mother-tongue, speak English most often, or both. Obviously, there will be some in the population who will deviate from this.

One can also break down the hapa population into the different mixes and according to world geography. Take the Chinese/Anglo-Saxon population and break it down further by including only those Chinese/Anglo-Saxons born and raised in HK. They will share some common ground that distinguishes themselves from say the Filipino/white-American population in the Philippines.

[BeTheReds]

Ding ding ding... meaning there's no hapa community!