The "my identity issues" thread

[BeTheReds]

While for a better part of 2 years or so, I've been adamantly against having people come in here and gripe about their individual hapa angst problem I realize that this kind of thing is important to some people. I had been against it because I didn't want to turn the hapa forum into something seperate from Yellowworld, or also to cause infighting amongst YW's members by having a large contingency of people from the "hapa movement".
I've maintained that Yellowworld is made for Asian-Americans, by Asian-Americans, and it really does seem silly to me that someone would come to a site for Asian-Americans to talk about how they don't feel like Asian-Americans, but rather something else. This forum is supposed to be for discussion of hapa issues in the context of Asian-America.
To make a long story short, shunning people who want to write about their hapa angst isn't going to make them care about Asian-American issues any more than allowing them to get into flamewars on the very subject. And if they stick around YW, they might learn a thing or two about Asian-American issues.
So, for any individual identity issues, this is the thread. I'll no longer delete or move them to other forums, but I will merge them with this thread. And to any new members that come here specifically for this thread, I hope you go elsewhere on the site as well.

PEACE!

[returntosender]

Interesting post Nick, and welcome to the fold.

I have a lot of opinions on mixed people and other stuff as well, but right now I can't articulate them. Thanks for sharing anyway.

[Arex]

I hope my children look less 'filipino.' Just the idea of dating a filipino girl is repulsive to me. It would be like giving in. I'm not a fucking filipino person god damnit. I don't know their food, I don't know their fucking country, and I don't want to. I am a man who comes from no where. I have no race, I was blessed with a problem, like a big fucking wart on my head or a deformation and my life is about getting over it.

Sorry to hear you feel this way about your ethnic heritage. Not coming from a mixed background, perhaps you can enlighten me as to why being born mixed, in and of itself, should ever be considered such a "problem" that it must somehow be overcome. Is there any particular reason why you loathe your Filipino heritage to the point that you feel you must fight it? (You said marrying a Filipino girl would be like "giving in.") Do you think you would feel differently if you were 100% Filipino yet still raised in San Bernardino?

P.S. - Welcome to yellowworld!

[thaite]

'sup dude.

[returntosender]

There's a notion flying around that mixed marriages are the result of people who are so in love with each other that they choose to see beyond the other's background and love the qualities of that person as an individual. It's a very romanticised concept but more often than not, upon hearing the stories of mixed kids, particularly asian/white, that it's hardly ever the case. What's worse is that the kids they bring into this world are no better at being upstanding, non-prejudiced individuals as everyone else. This utopian view of racial harmony through racial mixing I'm discovering, to my dismay, is false. We're not yet at the point where we can accept people as just people.

[kasia]

moving to the hapa forum.

[BeTheReds]

Moving to the self introduction forum...

[Chad]

Nick,
Let me first say that you're not the only one. I've met people like you. Well, I mean people in a situation similar to your own. Their Asian parent is long gone, for whatever reason, and they're left with a white parent in a white town. Or some of them are full-blooded Asian adoptees raised in a totally white environment. People look at them and think Asian ethnic, while the only culture they've ever known is white. These people probably don't frequent these forums as much because they have less reason to.
I can relate to your post a lot, even though my situation is a little different. My Chinese father is still around (they never divorced or separated) but we lived in an area where there was virtually no Chinese population to speak of. As a younger person I was never really interested in knowing about where he came from or what it was like. Why should I have been interested? It wasn't going to help me succeed in the culture we lived in! Later as a young adult I realized that I had actually picked up some of his habits, behaviors, traits, etc. and when I moved to an area with both more ABC kids and Chinese FOBs, I realized that these things I picked up from my father were cultural things. I hadn't ever questioned them before. But like yourself, I socialized mainly with white kids when I was younger.
You will learn to not hate yourself or any part of you. It seems that your complaint is that your racial identity (internal) doesn't match your racial phenotype (external), and this creates a disparity between the way you think of yourself and the way other people think of you. You feel very lonely in this.. and for good reason. You're not confused about who you are; your post reveals your racial identity very clearly, but others probably think you are confused. Yes, it sucks. My advice to you is to get comfortable with being ambiguous to other people and if you can, move to an area with a lot of different ethnic groups where you won't stick out quite as much but perhaps still with some rural (or "hick") culture in reach where you can go to feel at home.

-Chad

[Meki]

Umm... I'm so sorry that you have to deal with all that. I really wish I had some insightful advice to give but unfortunately, I do not. I grew up in Texas where there weren't very many Asians but then by the time I entered high school, there was a sudden influx of Asians. So I didn't have to go through anything close to what you have to deal with. However, I can certainly understand the isolation you must feel. I hope you do continue to post on this forum and perhaps find some solace in the fact that there are people here to give you support and encouragement if you need it. Even though it may only be via the internet. Well either way, I sincerely wish you the best and welcome to YW.

[ahsingjai]

You should move to a city where it is diverse.

I've met plenty of mixed asians. A white guy whose actually half chinese that speaks cantonese. Or I see a black guy with a fro speaking some rough cantonese or a white guy that is half viet speaking viet. du ma du ma du ma.....

But since you seem to hate your asian side, what happen to your dad?

[tapestrybabe]

I grew up in Texas where there weren't very many Asians but then by the time I entered high school, there was a sudden influx of Asians.
correct me if i'm wrong...
but i heard from somewhere...
a lot of koreans decided to
choose to live in texas as opposed to LA...
due to the racial tension that was brought
on by the LA riots...
and i hear now that in texas...
due to the growing population of koreans...
that they actually created an airline...
from texas that goes directly to korea...

****
anyways, in regards to the new member...
welcome to yw... :smile:

[Chad]

That sounds right. You can find communities like that in the cities.. Houston, east Dallas, Plano, Richardson. I think Richardson has the highest % of Asians in the state, with a whopping 11%.

[nicknick]

I live in LA, I think it is worse here for me. Since there are so many mixed people white people are even more on gaurd. Also people tend to pigeon hole me even more quickly into a race that I'm not (which is all of them). I think I might feel better in some all white town in colorado or some place. Maybe I would get some respect there. I think my main problem is I look much more latin than asian. People don't mistake me for asian, they think I am mexican. This is a problem because white people in southern california, where I live, have lots of issues with mexicans. A lot of white people see mexicans as sub-human here. It took me years not to think this way myself. I hope I don't feel this way anymore. Anyway I'm going to europe for the summer, maybe since they don't have as many mexicans I will get some relief.

[pikachupacabra]

I live in LA, I think it is worse here for me. Since there are so many mixed people white people are even more on gaurd. Also people tend to pigeon hole me even more quickly into a race that I'm not (which is all of them). I think I might feel better in some all white town in colorado or some place. Maybe I would get some respect there. I think my main problem is I look much more latin than asian. People don't mistake me for asian, they think I am mexican. This is a problem because white people in southern california, where I live, have lots of issues with mexicans. A lot of white people see mexicans as sub-human here. It took me years not to think this way myself. I hope I don't feel this way anymore. Anyway I'm going to europe for the summer, maybe since they don't have as many mexicans I will get some relief.


It's not just LA man, you're in one of the real armpits of the LA area...i would never wish San Bernardino on anyone. The only place in Cali that i can think of that's worse is probably bakersfield. If i had to choose between hell or bakersfield, I'd slit my wrists on the spot.

Anyways, I'm sorry dude. It's tough to find your identity and a place where you feel comfortable, secure, and confident for everyone, but it sounds like you have it especially worse. keep your head high, be confident in your abilities and yourself, don't let the man get you down, and most of all, find people who you can bring close to you to relieve the burden. Look online, or look around your area for youth groups, Hapa forums, etc. Good luck!

[cheapfujianese]

Damn man, you sound really fucked up. And no, I don't want to be in your situation. Wish I could give you some magic potion to fix your problems, but sorry man, I don't know what you're going through, where you came from and what you've experienced.

What I do know however, is that you need to just make do with what you were given in life. Also, the world is much larger than what your simple existence has told you. Perhaps the reason why you feel the way you do is becuase you've only lived in racist, institutionalized America. Maybe you need to travel and get away to another country. It seems that your biggest problem is that you are very sensitive to being pigeonholed in a racial category, when your actual identity is White. I think the best place for you to be is in Europe. There, they won't know who you are and they wont automatically categorized you as Mexican, not that they would even have strong impressions on how Mexicans are supposed to be. When they get to know you, they'd think of you as the "American guy", and you may get dates with hot European white girls who may be curious about dating an American guy or knowing about America. I think that would be a good remedy for you, at least temporarily, just to get some more life experience and a better understanding of the world. Also, most importantly, getting out of the bitter hellhole that you seem to have been surrounded by all of your life.

Hey man, I thought some of what you said was pretty shitty, but at least you were honest. I hope you find a better place, go to Europe.

[tapestrybabe]

this thread seems too indepth...
with discussion and what not...
for a mere intro...
i know, its been moved
from one forum to another...

gonna give it a shot tho...
and just move/copy this to
histories, traditions and disaporia...
this thread dealing with identity issues that i suppose
relates with the asian diasporia experience...

[Paradox]

There's a notion flying around that mixed marriages are the result of people who are so in love with each other that they choose to see beyond the other's background and love the qualities of that person as an individual. It's a very romanticised concept but more often than not, upon hearing the stories of mixed kids, particularly asian/white, that it's hardly ever the case. What's worse is that the kids they bring into this world are no better at being upstanding, non-prejudiced individuals as everyone else. This utopian view of racial harmony through racial mixing I'm discovering, to my dismay, is false. We're not yet at the point where we can accept people as just people.
Sadly, I find that mixed race children (hapas) often hold even more prejudicial views when it comes to race. Some feel they don't fit in anywhere so they decide to go the extreme route by aligning with one half of their ethnic background to bash the other. Just check out some hapa forums sometime and see the disparaging comments they have about race...oftentimes asians are the focus of the attack. Some have a mixture of inferiority and superiority complexes that makes for some amusing conversations. Frankly, I view any race politics coming from anglo countries to be poison.

[AliBabaIncorporated]

Just check out some hapa forums sometime and see the disparaging comments they have about race...
Usually, hapa forums are full of people who are aligning only with people of their own heritage and bashing everyone who's monoracial. Which is just a microcosm of everyone's racial politics: "Us good. Them bad." That's why they're on hapa forums rather than AA forums or out in mainstream forums or on white nationalist forums or whatever. And just cuz they're bashing Asian-Americans, doesn't follow that they're whitewashed or think they're white.

[Anaestacia]

Sadly, I find that mixed race children (hapas) often hold even more prejudicial views when it comes to race. Some feel they don't fit in anywhere so they decide to go the extreme route by aligning with one half of their ethnic background to bash the other. Just check out some hapa forums sometime and see the disparaging comments they have about race...oftentimes asians are the focus of the attack. Some have a mixture of inferiority and superiority complexes that makes for some amusing conversations. Frankly, I view any race politics coming from anglo countries to be poison.

Usually, hapa forums are full of people who are aligning only with people of their own heritage and bashing everyone who's monoracial. Which is just a microcosm of everyone's racial politics: "Us good. Them bad." That's why they're on hapa forums rather than AA forums or out in mainstream forums or on white nationalist forums or whatever. And just cuz they're bashing Asian-Americans, doesn't follow that they're whitewashed or think they're white.

Paradox, are you speaking of most mixed people you've observed, or only the ones online?

Unfortunately I'm not psychic (yet) so I do not know which mixed forums you have frequented. Being an Asian yourself and observing such disparaging remarks, I'm inclined to believe your (Paradox) words quite biased too. Inferiority and superiority complexes? Certainly. AliBaba, you mention hapa forums first, and then go on to include all racial politicking. Which one is it? Strangely, I can spot the exact same thing on YW as well. I view this largely as byproducts of humanity, not exclusive to mixed people.

[AliBabaIncorporated]

Certainly. AliBaba, you mention hapa forums first, and then go on to include all racial politicking. Which one is it? Strangely, I can spot the exact same thing on YW as well. I view this largely as byproducts of humanity, not exclusive to mixed people.
Uh yes, I agree, which is why I said that for the hapa people on hapa forums, their racial politics are a lot like those of any other people who go onto racially-exclusive forums.

However, too many AAs, falling into a false dichotomy, assume there's only two choices for hapa identity in the US: Asian-American or white. Then they further assume that if you are a hapa and you're bashing on Asian-Americans, it's self-evident that you identify with the white side of your heritage. When in reality, plenty of hapas are known for bashing on both monoracial white people and monoracial Asian people simply cuz they're not hapa and obviously don't have access to the "Best of Both Worlds" like all these enlightened hapa folks.

[Anaestacia]

Uh yes, I agree, which is why I said that for the hapa people on hapa forums, their racial politics are a lot like those of any other people who go onto racially-exclusive forums.

However, too many AAs, falling into a false dichotomy, assume there's only two choices for hapa identity in the US: Asian-American or white. Then they further assume that if you are a hapa and you're bashing on Asian-Americans, it's self-evident that you identify with the white side of your heritage. When in reality, plenty of hapas are known for bashing on both monoracial white people and monoracial Asian people simply cuz they're not hapa and obviously don't have access to the "Best of Both Worlds" like all these enlightened hapa folks.

Thanks for clarifying. I understood what you were saying and agree with it, but the beginning was a bit confusing. I wouldn't call mixed people enlightened, just usually forced to be aware of social pressures from both sides. Not all are like this.

Many do not like the slogan "best of both worlds" either. They feel it puts out an inaccurate image of the general mixed populace. Quite a number of them despise the way it often comes out conceited, and how it creates tension between monoracial people and themselves. Literally, "best of both worlds" also perpetuates the stereotype that all mixed people are good looking. This too they find annoying because it's not always true. Additionally, as Paradox so eloquently put, many mixed people are extremely aware that they relate to one side more than the other/s, or were brought up with predominantly one culture and lacking all others. Some feel blighted because they do not know their other sides, and once again the "best of both worlds" is inaccurate.

Personally, I'm indifferent.

[LaiSteve66]

I never had any "identity" issues growing up. I was fortunate to be raised in very diverse area of Houston, with a significant Asian community. Fortunate for me the Asian and Vietnamese community accepted me with open arms despite the fact that I was half white and for the greater part of my childhood "Whitewashed". In middle school, I started to "fall over" to the Asian side and by high school, I was considered by alot my Asian friends to be "fully Asianized". When ever a Vietnamese friend of mine would introduce me to another Vietnamese, they would usually point that I was half Vietnamese conveying the notion that I was one of them and was to be accepted, thus I developed an Asian bias and was naturally drawn to Asian people. Being mixed didn't cause many problems for me and I never had to bash Whites to prove myself. The only problem I ever had is that with some Asians, the half Asian is only Asian so long as the mixed person doesn't piss he/she off. As soon as you piss them off, all of sudden you are White and then come the "White boy" or "My Chung" comments. Luckily for me, there weren't that many people who were like this. I entered college as a computer science major and the CS dept. was mostly Asian. Towards the end of completion of my CS degree, I had to take some MIS classes which is mostly White. In one MIS class, I ended up in a group with three other people, all of whom were White. The four of us toiled over a project for ten weeks and we grew kind of close and started hanging out. For the first time after over 10 years of blatent and open bias towards Asians, I had a White crew. The Whites accepted me too, and they knew I was half Vietnamese. Through these three I met more white people. I went to their parties, got drunk with them and just had fun. I learned I could relate to White people, something I did not believe in high school.

When I hear stories like Nick's it really saddens me, and it makes me greatful that I grew up in Southwest Houston and not some hick town out in the middle of nowhere.
I'm not nearly as bias toward Asians now as I was in high school but I still feel "Asianized" and associate mostly with Asians. In hindsight, I honestly feel I got the best of the Asian world and the better part of the White world. I got lucky, and I'm greatful for it.

[jongeh]

I never had any identity issues when I was younger because I was in a very diverse city, so I didn't even realize I was different. Then, I moved to a hicktown and started becoming more aware of my asian-ness, but not in a bad way. However, I did start to look at other hapa forums and did notice a lot of people hating one side or the other. I, on the other hand, do consider myself to be most comfortable with my white side because I was basically the only asian within a 30 mile radius throughout middle school and high school, but now, I would love to become more in touch with my asian side. I have started learning Korean and other stuff, but I still feel uncomfortable around asian people, like they think I am some kind of a poser (even though I look more Asian than white). So yeah, sometimes I just wish I was monoracial, but since I am not, I do not bash on the monoracial people, just envy them.

[vegasmom]

Nicknic,

I so wanted to reply to your post long ago but just now was able to join this board. In alot of ways I feel like you do, there were things you said right dead on. It was almost scary because I don't hear many Asian/ white people talk about it. Here what I see.... some people if you ask them on their encounters/ experience with white people they can relate and will talk about it a little bit. And then there are others who say no they never experienced any type of prejudice. OK maybe not for a few people (depending on where you grew up) but the majority that is a bunch of bull. How can you not when the US is populated with ( last I heard) %70 of white people. Considering that the TV was invented 50 years ago, you still don't see many Asian or many mixed breeds of any race on TV. Comparing that to how many white people you see on TV. So as you know America still has alot of accepting and getting use to different races. I believe it may not happen for many years to come. America is changing and starting to get more accepting but the process is very slow.

On another note, I always get some people telling me "oh it just all in your head". And that statement just annoys me. I just tell them until you are a mixed breed you really haven't got a clue. Growing up in the early 80's, remembering the first day of school was painful. Crying all the way home to my mother telling her the kids called me chinky, flat face or pancake face. It wasn't until that day that I knew my life would change forever. I thought I was white up until then. I could understand that lots of kids get made fun of whether its being overweight, or having braces or whatever. But I couldn't understand why I was made fun of by just being a human being.
My father was military and did 20 years. So as we moved from place to place, I really tried to find my identity. When we were stationed in Germany I didn't really experience prejudice since most of the kids were all mixed and were military families.
It wasn't until the 9th grade when we moved to upstate NY. Going to High School parties and getting human urine throw on you and told get the F*** out of here you gook. Or playing a game and telling you to lay down close your eyes. Then when you open them you find someones butt crack hovering over your nose for the whole party to laugh at you making you feel like the real butt of the joke.
Lets not forget the guys I tried dating in High School. Oh yeah sure they thought I was pretty,pretty enough to date for a few weeks to see what they can get out of me. Only later to find out the guy has a GIRLFRIEND and what do you know she just happens to be white, pretty, and blonde.
People tell me the stereotype comes for the GI's in the early World Wars. Messing around while station in the orient. Well that might be true cause I am living proof of one. Born in Korea from a GI father that left my mother 5 months pregnant, while he went back to his wife and two kids in the states. My mother remarried another GI and I came to the USA when I was two. Strangely enough I found my biological father at the age of 22 with very little to go on.
Lastly I don't have any white girlfriends. Mainly because I can't relate to their cultural up bringing. White women are the dominate race. And you can pretty much see in their attitude and how they hold themselves. And the looks I get from them is like "Hahaha don't you wish you could look like me" Something to that effect.
So now I am married to a white man, something I told myself as a young girl that I would do. I have two children and they do look white. It might sound bad to some but it makes total sense to me. As a mother and from my years of old scars, I naturally want to make their life as normal as I possibly can. I never want them to go through what I did. I realize that was 20 something years ago, but unfortunately prejudices still does live. For me I have accepted who I am and just try to make the best of it. Being a mixed breed has not benefited my life as much as I wanted it to but........ it hasn't kept me down a whole heck of a lot either.

[Craig]

Nicknic,

I so wanted to reply to your post long ago but just now was able to join this board. In alot of ways I feel like you do, there were things you said right dead on. It was almost scary because I don't hear many Asian/ white people talk about it. Here what I see.... some people if you ask them on their encounters/ experience with white people they can relate and will talk about it a little bit. And then there are others who say no they never experienced any type of prejudice. OK maybe not for a few people (depending on where you grew up) but the majority that is a bunch of bull. How can you not when the US is populated with ( last I heard) %70 of white people. Considering that the TV was invented 50 years ago, you still don't see many Asian or many mixed breeds of any race on TV. Comparing that to how many white people you see on TV. So as you know America still has alot of accepting and getting use to different races. I believe it may not happen for many years to come. America is changing and starting to get more accepting but the process is very slow.

On another note, I always get some people telling me "oh it just all in your head". And that statement just annoys me. I just tell them until you are a mixed breed you really haven't got a clue. Growing up in the early 80's, remembering the first day of school was painful. Crying all the way home to my mother telling her the kids called me chinky, flat face or pancake face. It wasn't until that day that I knew my life would change forever. I thought I was white up until then. I could understand that lots of kids get made fun of whether its being overweight, or having braces or whatever. But I couldn't understand why I was made fun of by just being a human being.
My father was military and did 20 years. So as we moved from place to place, I really tried to find my identity. When we were stationed in Germany I didn't really experience prejudice since most of the kids were all mixed and were military families.
It wasn't until the 9th grade when we moved to upstate NY. Going to High School parties and getting human urine throw on you and told get the F*** out of here you gook. Or playing a game and telling you to lay down close your eyes. Then when you open them you find someones butt crack hovering over your nose for the whole party to laugh at you making you feel like the real butt of the joke.
Lets not forget the guys I tried dating in High School. Oh yeah sure they thought I was pretty,pretty enough to date for a few weeks to see what they can get out of me. Only later to find out the guy has a GIRLFRIEND and what do you know she just happens to be white, pretty, and blonde.
People tell me the stereotype comes for the GI's in the early World Wars. Messing around while station in the orient. Well that might be true cause I am living proof of one. Born in Korea from a GI father that left my mother 5 months pregnant, while he went back to his wife and two kids in the states. My mother remarried another GI and I came to the USA when I was two. Strangely enough I found my biological father at the age of 22 with very little to go on.
Lastly I don't have any white girlfriends. Mainly because I can't relate to their cultural up bringing. White women are the dominate race. And you can pretty much see in their attitude and how they hold themselves. And the looks I get from them is like "Hahaha don't you wish you could look like me" Something to that effect.
So now I am married to a white man, something I told myself as a young girl that I would do. I have two children and they do look white. It might sound bad to some but it makes total sense to me. As a mother and from my years of old scars, I naturally want to make their life as normal as I possibly can. I never want them to go through what I did. I realize that was 20 something years ago, but unfortunately prejudices still does live. For me I have accepted who I am and just try to make the best of it. Being a mixed breed has not benefited my life as much as I wanted it to but........ it hasn't kept me down a whole heck of a lot either.So, you obviously subscribe to the theory of let's deal with the racist system by perpetuating and further empowering it ...

[vegasmom]

I never really looked at it as empowering the "white race" just what would be best for my kids childhood experience. That was my only concern. Yes that would add more to the "white" population. But I am only looking out for my family, since no one else is going to. @@ If my kids are going to be living on this earth for the next 80-100 years, you bet I going to do all I can so they don't have a identity crisis. To me theres nothing like the feeling of wanting to fit in and be accepted due to your ethnic background.
Some people say well you should embrace you Asian side. Well sorry, but I can't do that because I can't relate. Nor do I have a burning desire to either. Growing up in a white environment is all I know. If I had a choice I would rather be full Asian or full white and reside in that country. I never like being a mixed breed growing up, as if I didn't have enough problems dealing with the common struggles teens encounter in high school. To me it just added more problems.

I personally have chosen to just deal with it. Can't change the world overnight. Issues like this take time. Not to mention I have more important things to worry about. We all have a form of racism in us, whether you want to admit it or not. I'm just glad Nicknic had the balls to come out and say how he really felt. I'm glad to know I wasn't one only to share the same feelings.

[White_Diamond86]

Wow all of these mixed problems that you guys face . . . I hope when my daughter is born she never has to experience any of these problems... But anyways... I'm sure she already has... Since her father's parents want her father to abandone her and me since were white or not blood or some crap . . . All I am saying it could be worse for you hapas... Your so worried about the appearance aspect. At least your not faced with hate from your other side of the family etc.

[kimpossible]

Hapa issues are not simply about appearance. That's your interpretation. I don't mind if a monoracial person has a question or two but if your point isn't going to be much more than to misconstrue then minimize the issue then maybe more reading of the issues to understand them better is the logical route. A good place to start might be the dedicated thread at the top of the forum "Advice for Parents of Mixed Children."

Most likely the grandparents to be will change their mind once they know it is their grandchild (if they had any doubts - I don't know your situation but it didn't sound like you were married to each other) and they see her. The issue might not be so hinged on your race as it might be their son's age, your age, education levels and timing of the child in their son's life.

[_natty]

hey guys im new, just wanted to say hi! =P

[Anaestacia]

Hi Natty.

[gaijingirl]

Hi everyone.

I hope you dont mind me posting here. I am a caucasian married to a Japanese man. He is one quarter white american (his mother is hapa). We are in our late twenties and married with one child, and living in Tokyo. We returned here after a spell in the US, then in the UK. We have been back for a while now and Ive noticed how my husband has been getting more and more depressed and getting more and mroe angry. He stands out from the crowd here, literally, much taller and heavily built with Eurasian features, and this means he isnt accepted as japanese by collegues and friends, at least not `as Japanese` as `purebreeds`. I recently had to have an arguement with a foreign friend who declared that none of my family were Japanese, so why were we in Japan. R was born here, raised here monolingual Japanese until he was 17, and this is the only passport he holds. ..ok..so no wonder he is depressed ...

Recently his mother left and went to live in the USA, and left no contact details. Ive noticed since we returned to Japan he has had a lot of trouble here. Being called a foreigner, hassle at work for not being `Japanese enough`, whilst being treated as Japanese by most other foreigners (to me he is just r-chan, my lovely husband and great father). This has been getting him down. He was educated from the age of 17 in the US, but was denied a visa to work there. His mother doesnt have an american passport, or at least last we knew she doesnt.

He wont go and live in my native UK, citing dislike of the weather and culture (understandable!), but he is so depressed recently. Here my daughter gets nasty comments from `pure` Japanese, and bullied at kindergarten for being `gaijin`, my husband is so low I dont know what to do. I cant understand how my husband feels, or my little girl. I try to support them. My daughter is alright, but I feel she would be happier out of Japan, if other native Japanese cant accept them as Japanese. My husband is so down, he seems to hate his asian-ness, and yet is kind of `stateless` - no American passport, and gaijin see him as asian, and Japanese treat him like a foreigner who can just speak Japanese really well, and doesnt wear his shoes indoors.

I like Japan, I love my family and friends here. I love Asia. But I really think my husband has huge identity problems which are just getting worse. I dont want to make things worse for him here, and dont know what I should do for the best. He refuses to admit there is anything he cant handle or deal with, and is fine with other people, it is just when he is alone with us he is withdrawn and clearly depressed and I know it is partly how he is treated here, partly he longs to be back in the US, and partly this problem he has with being part caucasian.

His grandpa was an American soldier, who died when my husband`s mother was very young. She was brought up in care and never knew her American family. This pain has kind of filtered down. R looks Eurasian - tall, very well built, and `hapa` features. His brother looks much more Japanese, and has fewer problems.

I just wondered if any of you had any ideas. I dont know whether to try and get him out of japan, or to get him some help. He certainly wont talk to anyone apart from me, and I feel like I am kind of betraying him talking here, but am so worried about him...and also worried about my daughter growing up here.

gaijingirl

[Chad]

I have never lived in Japan so I can't give any solid advice, but how old is your husband? This seems like something that should have been sorted out a long time ago (unless he's young). The world is full of people who have moved; immigrants, refugees, the evicted, the displaced, etc. who can say for sure if they ever find happiness? But many of them do, against all odds.
The human needs these basic things:
air, water, food, shelter, security, love, achievement
IF THE HUMAN IS NOT HAPPY THEN ONE OF THESE THINGS IS MISSING

[kimpossible]

I like Japan, I love my family and friends here. I love Asia. But I really think my husband has huge identity problems which are just getting worse. I dont want to make things worse for him here, and dont know what I should do for the best. He refuses to admit there is anything he cant handle or deal with, and is fine with other people, it is just when he is alone with us he is withdrawn and clearly depressed and I know it is partly how he is treated here, partly he longs to be back in the US, and partly this problem he has with being part caucasian.

His grandpa was an American soldier, who died when my husband`s mother was very young. She was brought up in care and never knew her American family. This pain has kind of filtered down. R looks Eurasian - tall, very well built, and `hapa` features. His brother looks much more Japanese, and has fewer problems.

I just wondered if any of you had any ideas. I dont know whether to try and get him out of japan, or to get him some help. He certainly wont talk to anyone apart from me, and I feel like I am kind of betraying him talking here, but am so worried about him...and also worried about my daughter growing up here.

gaijingirl

As much as I intimately relate or understand your husband and daughter's situation - and even yours to a certain extent, I think the answer to all this is going to be more dependent on your role in your family rather than the racial factors at work.

I could have been in your husband's place if my American GI grandpa hadn't come back for my mother and grandmother in Japan. But he did and rather than being 1/4 Caucasian in Japan I'm 1/4 Japanese in America.

We can't tell you what do with your family or 'fix' your husband in his situation, even if we empathize it or have lived it. That we may understand it in a way that you may not isn't really of any value here.

You're not Japanese but you are still his wife and the mother of your child. What do YOU think is best for your family? How do you plan on resolving this with your husband?

I would bank up some options and talk about them with him. Obviously, he isn't keen on going to the UK. Personally, I think your assumption that they'd be happier there because they'd experience less racism and xenophobia is off kilter. It could be just as bad for them considering both are culturally Japanese and at least in part ethnically Japanese.

I'm only one quarter Japanese and I caught hell in school for having slanty eyes and being generally different than kids in my area of the USA. I was called chink, gook, and told to 'go back' to China. Kids can be cruel and there's no guarantee that British or American children will be any better behaved than your daughter's current schoolmates. The teasing will most likely change drastically after she and her peers reach puberty.

Our son due in a couple of months is half Chinese, 1/8 Japanese and the rest pretty much Irish. He'll have the advantages of linguistically bilingual, paternal Chinese identity, American citizenship and a mother who is also 'hapa' but I don't kid myself: he's going to have some difficulty navigating his identity and not being accepted as either Chinese or white, nevermind the sliver of Japanese in him. In my opinion, your family and kids have to stop being an ethnic mix at some point and you have to act as a wife and mother first and foremost.

You said America is out but there are other former British colonies/commonwealths. I'd consider Canada, Australia, New Zealand - NZ in particular. The entry requirements are much easier, especially if you have some sort of viable work skills. My husband and I are looking hard at NZ because of its proximity to Asia, Chinese population and quality of life.

You could also consider moving to an area of Japan with a higher foreigner population and maybe an 'international' school for your daughter. Though I think it may be situational. Just moving to another town or city may alleviate the situation.

Good luck with your choices.

[Anaestacia]

kimpossible made some excellent suggestions. Yet my experiences with Australians are slighty tarnished. Generally speaking, whether it's Canada, Aus or NZ, the larger cities are going to make the transition much easier. Many immigrants from HK have made homes in Sydney and Melbourne, and I know many originally from Singapore have nestled comfortably in Perth. Their home countries are a mere few hours plane ride away.

Inland of Canada and the people become less tolerant as a whole - these are only my experiences. I am sure there are pockets in some of the landlocked provinces, but I've not been to most of them with the exception of Alberta. Only Vancouver and Toronto. We nearly lived in NZ actually but chose to come to western Canada instead.

I can relate to some of what your husband is dealing with personally as a mixed person but as someone already said the experiences are varied and whatever similarities may be of no relevance to you.

You may find on a microscale, even after finding country that's suitable, a problem with schools and the ethnic make up there. Which in all honesty is directly related to tolerance and how your child will grow up with her mixed identity. Given her experiences already, it sounds like she's extremely aware of her ethnicity but isn't given a chance to choose any culture to affiliate with.

[lee duk sun]

There's a notion flying around that mixed marriages are the result of people who are so in love with each other that they choose to see beyond the other's background and love the qualities of that person as an individual. It's a very romanticised concept but more often than not, upon hearing the stories of mixed kids, particularly asian/white, that it's hardly ever the case. What's worse is that the kids they bring into this world are no better at being upstanding, non-prejudiced individuals as everyone else. This utopian view of racial harmony through racial mixing I'm discovering, to my dismay, is false. We're not yet at the point where we can accept people as just people.

well, i'll agree with that last sentence whole-heartedly. but, in my case, where i was adopted into a white family and predominantly white area north of boston, i HAD no race to fit into. the white saw me as chinese (i'm korean, btw) and the asians didn't accept me as one of them, even though i'm as far as i know, 100% asian. there is question over whether or not i'm 1/2 japanese now, too... so... who am i supposed to choose? am i supposed to be 'socially responsible' and date korean men–who i don't relate to and who don't relate to me, just so i can bring kids into this world who are more accepted and have a better sense of themselves? because that would be a false sense of themselves, a myth, that i created for them.

i think it's up to ourselves as individual PEOPLE to do what is in our hearts, and to make the world a more accepting and understanding place for own children, if we choose to have them. it's not going to get better any other way. we shouldn't be embarrassed or socially tugged into going against wherever our hearts may lead us... but if we do decide to procreate, it's up to us to make sure our very own kids understand that they're themselves, despite of race, and give them things to be proud of other than just physical identity or heritage. it's up to us to be comfortable enough in ourselves before we have kids, first and foremost. because kids growing up with parents who are insecure of their identities is more damaging than just the idea of kids being of mixed races...

i don't mean to jump all over your post! :eek: sorry! but i'm very passionate about this subject... for me, i don't look at blending races as a way to create a utopian world or anything like that. i do think mixed races make interestingly beautiful people, and i'm not blind to the problems that it can create. however, i think it's most important for us to be strong individuals and find other ways to define ourselves, and teach our kids that, too. xOx

[BeTheReds]

More power to you Ms. Sunbeam, but in this case I have to say that some people are mature enough to handle an interracial relationship, while others simply think they are. You must notice that there is a huge disparity in interracial relationships, and that Asian women don't seem to have any trouble relating to white men in a lot of cases, but in the reverse, white women do have trouble relating to Asian guys. Why is that? You can't just dismiss it as personal preference and leave it at that alone. I understand that your circumstance is a little different given your upbringing, but I don't think it would be living a lie for you to consider dating an Korean or Korean-American guy.

Finally this last statement of yours disgusts me....


i do think mixed races make interestingly beautiful people, and i'm not blind to the problems that it can create.

Why would being of mixed race make you any more beautiful than anyone else? Are you talking about physical beauty or personality wise? What do you have to say about ugly ones with a superiority complex? Are they interestingly beautiful? We're people and we are individuals with no connectivity to each other. That's something I'd expect you to be able to relate to more than other full blooded Asians would be able to.

Not trying to be a nitpicker, and welcome to the forum, nuna...

[lee duk sun]

hey there. this is a response for 'bethereds':

i first want to say that you're misunderstanding me a LOT. i never said that interracial children make MORE BEAUTIFULLY INTERESTING people. just that they do tend to make interesting feature combinations as well as cultural interchanges. so do people with different features in monoracial relationships, i.e. dark hair and light eyes, or people of different religions (my grandparents were protestant/catholic back when it was hugely looked down upon). please don't misinterpret me as saying they are superiorly beautiful in any way. i'm sorry for your disgust... i didn't think i needed to further clarify, but now i'm glad that you've confronted me to.

and ya know, i haven't ever been closed minded to dating an asian or american-asian man, either. they unfortunately weren't around where i grew up, and when they were, they weren't very interested, frankly. i guess i just wasn't their type. plus, the ones i ended up working with preferred dating blondes! haha. and i'm not as petite as a lot of asian guys i know prefer their women, and i'm also not into developing an eating disorder to be attractive for anyone of any race.

i'm not sure why asian women have less of a problem relating to white men. all i can speak to is my case. and as for the comment about white women not relating to asian men... i don't see that. in fact, a lot of my white girl friends think asian men are hot and date them when the attraction is mutual. i'm gonna go out on a limb and suggest that maybe SOME asian men are afraid of that stereotype and are hesitant to ask out a white woman if he's attracted to one? i don't know... i can only guess here, but i must say that the white women were the aggressors when it came to the above mentioned couples.

and i guess people don't always know what they're ready for until they're in something, and then there's a gut instinct one way or the other. we ARE all human, as you said.

an interesting fact you might be interested in that i've just discovered while trying to uncover whether or not i have japanese history in my 'family'... scientists who were working on the human genome project attempted to see what DNA characteristics were similar amongst people of the same races. although they were able to distinguish a few groupings, they also strangely report that people of the same race are less likely to match MORE DNA characteristics than with someone of a different race from them. confusing, eh? it basically means that these scientists say that there IS no race distinction, and that all there really is, genetically by DNA, is the human race. i think that's really something to think about... and it has also stopped me from both being physically able to determine by background, as well as wanting to care so much anymore...

anyway, out of curiosity, what is your background? i'm new and all so i don't know yet...

xOx
sun lee sunbeam

[rice cracker]

It's easier for females to assimilate into the colonizing or dominant culture. It happens all over the world. /$0.02

[AliBabaIncorporated]

It's easier for females to assimilate into the colonizing or dominant culture. It happens all over the world. /$0.02
except in Mexico where the pattern is invariably a mestizo man becoming successful and marrying the blondest woman he can find so his kids will enter the ruling class. Or Filipinos in Hong Kong (though this is probably due to the massive imbalance which results in something like 15 Filipina women for every Filipino man). Or Indians in Malaysia. etc.

[BeTheReds]

hey there. this is a response for 'bethereds':

i first want to say that you're misunderstanding me a LOT. i never said that interracial children make MORE BEAUTIFULLY INTERESTING people. just that they do tend to make interesting feature combinations as well as cultural interchanges.

And that alone disgusts me, for the reasons that I stated above. Culture is not transmitted through semen, nor do interesting (translation: exotic, different, abnormal) feature combinations make me feel all bubbly inside.


and ya know, i haven't ever been closed minded to dating an asian or american-asian man, either. they unfortunately weren't around where i grew up, and when they were, they weren't very interested, frankly.


Well I was going by the part where you got all defensive of your dating preference and justified it by saying that you can't relate to Asian men, and that to marry one would be like lying to your children...

i'm not sure why asian women have less of a problem relating to white men.

Welcome to Yellowworld. Take a look around, this topic comes up every 3 or 4 days.


i'm gonna go out on a limb and suggest that maybe SOME asian men are afraid of that stereotype and are hesitant to ask out a white woman if he's attracted to one?

That's probably true, but you're making excuses. There is a dating disparity, and the reason behind it is not because all the Asian dudes are too shy or afraid.


an interesting fact you might be interested in that i've just discovered while trying to uncover whether or not i have japanese history in my 'family'... scientists who were working on the human genome project attempted to see what DNA characteristics were similar amongst people of the same races. although they were able to distinguish a few groupings, they also strangely report that people of the same race are less likely to match MORE DNA characteristics than with someone of a different race from them. confusing, eh? it basically means that these scientists say that there IS no race distinction, and that all there really is, genetically by DNA, is the human race.

Oh yea, there's no such thing as race. Why are you here again?




anyway, out of curiosity, what is your background? i'm new and all so i don't know yet...

xOx
sun lee sunbeam

Are you asking how I identify myself, or how I'm supposed to identify myself?

I called you nuna and I am a moderator of this hapa forum, so, you can figure it out.

:)

Again, welcome.

[returntosender]

except in Mexico where the pattern is invariably a mestizo man becoming successful and marrying the blondest woman he can find so his kids will enter the ruling class. Or Filipinos in Hong Kong (though this is probably due to the massive imbalance which results in something like 15 Filipina women for every Filipino man). Or Indians in Malaysia. etc.

Ultimately it's the people in power who makes the decision on who moves up or not doesn't it? Asian women have the exotic/sexual object thing going for them, but i don't know how well they'd do if Whites saw them as they see black women.

As far as i know, they're isn't a global fetish for indians or mexicans.

[lee duk sun]

And that alone disgusts me, for the reasons that I stated above. Culture is not transmitted through semen, nor do interesting (translation: exotic, different, abnormal) feature combinations make me feel all bubbly inside.

i can't help but notice that you're inserting your own words into my sentences. i did not infer that the conception and birth of the children ALONE cause for the interesting cultures. you're obviously prepared to be offended by me for some reason.


Well I was going by the part where you got all defensive of your dating preference and justified it by saying that you can't relate to Asian men, and that to marry one would be like lying to your children...

again, not what i said. i said that if i were to date an asian man just to be socially conscious and personally conscious of how my children are going to feel growing up, THAT would be the lie. marrying an asian man wouldn't be lying to my children! hell–i don't even think i want to have any children! haha. who stepped on your toe today, man?


Welcome to Yellowworld. Take a look around, this topic comes up every 3 or 4 days.

i did, actually. and i see it's an issue people are encountering. i just personally don't see it, because the people i know aren't encountering these problems.

and furthermore, i'd like to add that you seem to think that i'm trying to speak for the whole world here. the world is a different place for everyone depending on who and where they are, etc., so i'd never claim to know EVERYTHING about ANYTHING, and neither should you. unless, of course, you're some kind of rocket scientist that i don't know about... ;-)


That's probably true, but you're making excuses. There is a dating disparity, and the reason behind it is not because all the Asian dudes are too shy or afraid.

hey, it was not an excuse. i said i was going on out a limb there just to harbor a guess. what's the excuse for asian men who haven't been into me? should i be all defensive about that? because i'm 5'2" and weigh 120 rather than 102? because my face isn't surgically altered? because i'm not asian enough for them to bring to their parents if they grew up in an asian family? c'mon man... you're looking for reasons to hate me or something. you don't know me at all. this is supposed to be a forum where people can rant, am i right? aren't you a moderator? it looks more like a personal suicide to walk intot his room and speak your mind!


Oh yea, there's no such thing as race. Why are you here again?


did i SAY there is no such thing as RACE? wtf? i said scientifically per DNA genetics scientists say there are no distinguishing factors enough to group races, and believe SCIENTIFICALLY there is one race: the human race. and that socially and geographically and whatever else i need to say so you don't attack me, WE CREATE THE RACES that way. it's just something to think about... you know, if you have an open mind...


Are you asking how I identify myself, or how I'm supposed to identify myself?


how you identify yourself, but forget it. i really don't give a *%$ anymore. in fact, per your personal attack, i might be done with this board. it's nothing more than any other place on the net. if i want to be personally attacked, i'll go to a fancy club in seoul tonight. instinct and physical gratification, ya know? ;-)


I called you nuna and I am a moderator of this hapa forum, so, you can figure it out.

:)

Again, welcome.

oh, i've got it figured out, baby. and, you're about as welcoming as a masked man lurking out from a dark alley ;-) have yourself a fabulous life. and try not to kill too many people in your journeys... they're really not all out to get you, ya know...

"Well I was going by the part where you got all defensive of your dating preference"

i forgot this one: my dating preference... i don't seek out men of any preference, and you wrongly assumed that, too. i've dated black men from various parts of the world, white american men, irish men, latino men... because they were interested in me. do you get that the interest has to be mutual and available? and before you call me a slut, which i'm sure is next, i DATED, not slept with ;-) i actually lived in ireland 2.5 years as a minority, and now i'm in south korea for 1 month. no koreans are looking at me with any sense of attraction when i'm not with my boyfriend. no asians of any country were ever interested in me in any way, so should i be attacking you because you happen to be an asian man? what kind of women do YOU date? do you only stick to women who fit into the catergory of which YOU IDENTIFY YOURSELF?

next time i choose to respond to any comment or post, i'll be sure to write a novel including all my life's history and every thought i've ever had in order to be fully understood... or not. actually, why don't you just ban me already? heheh. that would be cool.

:: big loves to ya ::

[Chad]

Mrs Sunbeam,
One of the reasons you might feel attacked is because of the way you initiated contact here. One of the things that many mixed race people on the forums are sick of is people who arrive and immediately announce their status in an interracial relationship. And then they say they're going to "make beautiful babies." I know you didn't say this, but the comment you made about it would make one wonder. Dialogues about interracial relationships have their time and place but this particular forum is devoted to hapa issues; we don't want our dialogue to be dominated by monoracial people discussing their interracial relationships. We can get plenty of that elsewhere, often without asking. While I'm sure many people on yellowworld would love to hear about your white boyfriend, this particular section wouldn't be the best place for you to dig in.
-Chad

[BeTheReds]

i can't help but notice that you're inserting your own words into my sentences. i did not infer that the conception and birth of the children ALONE cause for the interesting cultures. you're obviously prepared to be offended by me for some reason.

Hey girl, calm down. It's really nothing personal. You know where I am coming from... I mean, this is what I saw...

U talked about how hapas are culture saavy and good looking, then talked about how you can't relate to Asian dudes. Perhaps I did misunderstand you, but, either way, you came into this forum and started talking about how people should be or should think. Or, at least that's how you came off.


again, not what i said. i said that if i were to date an asian man just to be socially conscious and personally conscious of how my children are going to feel growing up, THAT would be the lie.

How so? Don't you think that might also help you with some of your own identity issues (if you have any).


i did, actually. and i see it's an issue people are encountering. i just personally don't see it, because the people i know aren't encountering these problems.
Well, I personally don't see it either, but seeing as how so many are really vocal about it, there has to be a little bit of truth to it at the very least.

and furthermore, i'd like to add that you seem to think that i'm trying to speak for the whole world here. the world is a different place for everyone depending on who and where they are, etc., so i'd never claim to know EVERYTHING about ANYTHING, and neither should you. unless, of course, you're some kind of rocket scientist that i don't know about... ;-)

??? I don't know who you are speaking about. All I know is from what I read, you said that you think you can't relate to Asian guys, and they can't relate to you, then you were talking about how wonderful and interesting mixed kids are. I'm sorry if I misunderstood your intent, but that sounds an awful lot like a lot of the crap that we've had to put up with in here.


hey, it was not an excuse. i said i was going on out a limb there just to harbor a guess. what's the excuse for asian men who haven't been into me?

You did say you can't relate to them.

should i be all defensive about that? because i'm 5'2" and weigh 120 rather than 102? because my face isn't surgically altered?
WTF is that supposed to mean? Way to further the stereotype that Asian people get lots of plastic surgery. Plastic surgery and asian do not go hand in hand, you know...

because i'm not asian enough for them to bring to their parents if they grew up in an asian family?
There are many americanized Asian guys who probably wouldn't have that problem.

c'mon man... you're looking for reasons to hate me or something. you don't know me at all. this is supposed to be a forum where people can rant, am i right?
Not looking for reasons to hate you. And no, the hapa forum isn't for monoracials to come in and rant. You might try the rant room though. I don't even see what you wrote as a rant anyway.

aren't you a moderator? it looks more like a personal suicide to walk intot his room and speak your mind!

I'm sorry you feel that way, but I'm pretty vocal about my opinions. You seem to be too. I don't see the problem. Don't take everything I say so personally.

did i SAY there is no such thing as RACE? wtf? i said scientifically per DNA genetics scientists say there are no distinguishing factors enough to group races, and believe SCIENTIFICALLY there is one race: the human race. and that socially and geographically and whatever else i need to say so you don't attack me, WE CREATE THE RACES that way. it's just something to think about... you know, if you have an open mind...

Well, what difference does it make if scientifically there is one race? DUH, we can all mate with each other. We're the same species. Why would you even mention that anyway, what does it have to do with anything? Race, social construct or not, exists. Even though the genetic coding can vary drastically amongst members of the same race, there are various generalities that can be applied to different races of people, and in not every case is it wrong to do so.


how you identify yourself, but forget it. i really don't give a *%$ anymore. in fact, per your personal attack, i might be done with this board. it's nothing more than any other place on the net. if i want to be personally attacked, i'll go to a fancy club in seoul tonight. instinct and physical gratification, ya know? ;-)

Don't remember personally attacking you. I'm sorry you feel that way. Anyway I would like you to stick around Yellowworld. We need more adoptees to add their input. I've advocated that adoptees get a forum on YW, but there seems to have been a lack of interest. I think your presence here is necessary, and that we could learn a lot from what you have to say.... So, please don't go because I came off a little too harsh.



i forgot this one: my dating preference... i don't seek out men of any preference, and you wrongly assumed that, too. i've dated black men from various parts of the world, white american men, irish men, latino men... because they were interested in me. do you get that the interest has to be mutual and available? and before you call me a slut, which i'm sure is next,
WTF? Dude, date whoever you want, I don't care. I'm not gonna call you a slut, even if you did sleep with them all. Jeez, talk about putting words in people's mouths. No one has the right to call you that no matter what you do. You act like I'm all out to get you and make you feel shitty about what you do.

But about what you said.. You do have a dating preference. By saying you can't relate to Asian men, that's a preference. It's not something that you constructed for yourself, or that you may have any actual control over, but it's there. And you were defensive about it. All I was trying to say is that you don't need to come in here and be all defensive about your dating preferences.


i DATED, not slept with ;-) i actually lived in ireland 2.5 years as a minority, and now i'm in south korea for 1 month. no koreans are looking at me with any sense of attraction when i'm not with my boyfriend. no asians of any country were ever interested in me in any way, so should i be attacking you because you happen to be an asian man?
You lost me there...

what kind of women do YOU date? do you only stick to women who fit into the catergory of which YOU IDENTIFY YOURSELF?

Nope, I date those who I am attracted to and I am not defensive about it. Being a white looking hapa, I get all the strange looks and animosity from Asian dudes you can imagine. Should I do the right thing and not ever be visibly seen in public with Asian girls so as not to give the message that White men are colonizing Asian women? People have suggested that, but fuck it.. It's really none of their business. Just as your dating preference is none of anyone elses business and not something you need to be defensive about or make excuses for, which you did. And when you do that, on an Asian forum, people will call you on it. That's just the way it goes. I'm really sorry if I misunderstood anything and I really do wish you'd stick around. It can get pretty heated in here, and I don't think you should really take any of it personally.


actually, why don't you just ban me already? heheh. that would be cool.


Can't ban you, you haven't done anything wrong..

WELCOME!!!

[lee duk sun]

Mrs Sunbeam,
One of the reasons you might feel attacked is because of the way you initiated contact here. One of the things that many mixed race people on the forums are sick of is people who arrive and immediately announce their status in an interracial relationship. And then they say they're going to "make beautiful babies." I know you didn't say this, but the comment you made about it would make one wonder. Dialogues about interracial relationships have their time and place but this particular forum is devoted to hapa issues; we don't want our dialogue to be dominated by monoracial people discussing their interracial relationships. We can get plenty of that elsewhere, often without asking. While I'm sure many people on yellowworld would love to hear about your white boyfriend, this particular section wouldn't be the best place for you to dig in.
-Chad


well, chad, i don't feel like i initiated any conversation to speak about making beautiful interracial babies, or to even say i'm in an interracial relationship. i was speaking in terms of the context of the post i quoted. you're the one making excuses, now. the interracial comments were an aside to the big picture of understanding situations.

by the way, i don't consider myself a monoracial person. thank you for your further assumptions, though, chad.

[BeTheReds]

well, chad, i don't feel like i initiated any conversation to speak about making beautiful interracial babies, or to even say i'm in an interracial relationship. i was speaking in terms of the context of the post i quoted. you're the one making excuses, now. the interracial comments were an aside to the big picture of understanding situations.

by the way, i don't consider myself a monoracial person. thank you for your further assumptions, though, chad.


Don't put my words in Chad's mouth, miss thang.

[SunWuKong]

am i supposed to be 'socially responsible' and date korean men–who i don't relate to and who don't relate to me

date whoever you want. but the Asian population in the US exists in a wide range of demographics. don't you think it's a little short-sighted to think that you can't possibly relate to any Korean men? i mean, there are plenty of Asian men (and women, like yourself) that grew up in white neighborhoods with mostly or all white friends - and you can probably relate to that, being the only Asian kid around when you were little.

again, date whoever you want, but it just doesn't really make sense to me that you'd think you wouldn't ever be able to relate to any Asian men. no offense, but kind of close-minded, isn't it?

scientists who were working on the human genome project attempted to see what DNA characteristics were similar amongst people of the same races. although they were able to distinguish a few groupings, they also strangely report that people of the same race are less likely to match MORE DNA characteristics than with someone of a different race from them. confusing, eh? it basically means that these scientists say that there IS no race distinction, and that all there really is, genetically by DNA, is the human race. i think that's really something to think about... and it has also stopped me from both being physically able to determine by background, as well as wanting to care so much anymore...

yes, technically speaking, the concept of "race" is a social concept. and depending on who you ask, what some may consider "ethnicity" could be considered "race" by others.

but personally i feel that people that harp on this fact about there being more DNA differences between some people of the same race is not just citing the scientific evidence because it's interesting or whatever, but because they want to make a social statement about "race" being totally inconsequential.

the fact is that simply because people of the same racial groups have similar phenotypes means that there is a set of DNA strands that people of the same race has similar characteristics of. the genetic difference between races is identifiable enough that you can even order a test that determines your racial makeup. and i'm not a geneticist or anything, but i know that there are certain physical differences between races. for example, when you get bone marrow transplant, you need to get a donor that is of the same race as you. incidently, this is also why mixed-race people have a very difficult time finding the right bone marrow donor. (http://www.mavinfoundation.org/projects/matchmaker.html)

[lee duk sun]

date whoever you want. but the Asian population in the US exists in a wide range of demographics. don't you think it's a little short-sighted to think that you can't possibly relate to any Korean men? i mean, there are plenty of Asian men (and women, like yourself) that grew up in white neighborhoods with mostly or all white friends - and you can probably relate to that, being the only Asian kid around when you were little.

again, date whoever you want, but it just doesn't really make sense to me that you'd think you wouldn't ever be able to relate to any Asian men. no offense, but kind of close-minded, isn't it?

well, i should've said asian men who grew up in asia, to be more exact. and i'm not saying i could never relate to any, but the ones i have met seem to have vastly different opinions and ideals than myself. i'm still friends with some now, but that's the extent it's going to go.

and i haven't met many asian-american men, sadly enough. and the ones i've met were more into my white american girl friends.

i think the biggest problem here with you and chad is that i jumped in on someone else's post and quoted a part of that, without going into full depth to support myself, my views and opinions.

it seems clearer to me that we're more like-minded in these areas, so i'll just suggest a truce (specifically with chad, since that's where all the blood got boiled.)

i'm suddenly confused... is chad and bethereds different people, or one person?!

ok, ok... somehow got mixed up... my boiled argument was with bethereds. apologies to chad, and suggested truce with bethereds ;-)

and just to further clarify, this above post is merged from a few. that's why it's so confusing...

[BeTheReds]

suggested truce with bethereds ;-)


Um, okay. Didn't know we were fighting though.

[SunWuKong]

well, i should've said asian men who grew up in asia, to be more exact. and i'm not saying i could never relate to any, but the ones i have met seem to have vastly different opinions and ideals than myself. i'm still friends with some now, but that's the extent it's going to go.

and i haven't met many asian-american men, sadly enough. and the ones i've met were more into my white american girl friends.

oh that makes sense then. i mean all you wrote was that you couldn't relate to Asian men. i think without further elaboration, that comment would just be taken on face value.

[lee duk sun]

the fact is that simply because people of the same racial groups have similar phenotypes means that there is a set of DNA strands that people of the same race has similar characteristics of. the genetic difference between races is identifiable enough that you can even order a test that determines your racial makeup. and i'm not a geneticist or anything, but i know that there are certain physical differences between races. for example, when you get bone marrow transplant, you need to get a donor that is of the same race as you. incidently, this is also why mixed-race people have a very difficult time finding the right bone marrow donor. (http://www.mavinfoundation.org/projects/matchmaker.html)

thanks for that link. i looked through the site but couldn't find info on the kit you are speaking of. do you know what it consists of, physically? if there was a real way to learn about what my genetic make-up is, i'd like to know. everything i've read prior to this says otherwise.

[SunWuKong]

thanks for that link. i looked through the site but couldn't find info on the kit you are speaking of. do you know what it consists of, physically? if there was a real way to learn about what my genetic make-up is, i'd like to know. everything i've read prior to this says otherwise.

that link only pertains to bone marrow donations for mixed-race people.

for the test to find out your racial makeup:
http://genetree.com/product/population-assessment-dna-test.asp

but i'm not sure if they go as far as to tell you whether or not you're part Japanese. i think they break it down to percentages Native American, African, East Asian, and European. i've thought about getting it done myself, just because i'm curious. but i'm not curious enough to pay the amount of money they charge for the test.

[lee duk sun]

yeah, i think i knew they could do that. but it's interesting anyway, so thanks.

[cyber_pinoy]

I live in LA, I think it is worse here for me. Since there are so many mixed people white people are even more on gaurd. Also people tend to pigeon hole me even more quickly into a race that I'm not (which is all of them). I think I might feel better in some all white town in colorado or some place. Maybe I would get some respect there. I think my main problem is I look much more latin than asian. People don't mistake me for asian, they think I am mexican. This is a problem because white people in southern california, where I live, have lots of issues with mexicans. A lot of white people see mexicans as sub-human here. It took me years not to think this way myself. I hope I don't feel this way anymore. Anyway I'm going to europe for the summer, maybe since they don't have as many mexicans I will get some relief.

c'mon nick cheer up make your own statement. what i mean is that dont be afraid to express yourself. know the feeling of you not being really accepted in a way of being and expressing yourself. Hope your could find your own clicks soon.

[nicknick]

Hi I noticed you moved my original post back into activity. That's fine. I was going to write to ask you to delete it because of fear of employers looking up my name and seeing it, but honestly it is one of the most heartfelt things I've ever written and I hope it stays on the internet a long time for good or bad. Seeing as how you took that "F**K WHITE PEOPLE" stuff out I was wondering if you could please edit one more thing. In the last line the sentence reads:

"nobody like him."

it should read

"nobody likes him" --> Because nobody likes the mole

That has always bothered me. Thanks for leaving up my post. Whenever I type my name into google I get a reminder of how sad and pathetic I am, which for some reason makes me feel better. Maybe I am not so alone in this world. This whole race issue was very private to me. It is what I stuggle with.

In case anyone is wondering what I have been doing lately in my fight against being asian. I've bought braces and I'm going to get my overbite surgically corrected. I have discovered recently that the bridge of my nose is very low. I may have this corrected. I have wide cheek bones, but I'm not sure this can be fixed.

Nick

[kimpossible]

Nick, I've edited your surname out of your posts because of your concerns. The grammar stuff I didn't bother. Shoot a message off to BeTheReds or rice cracker if you'd like it returned. I won't be reliably available.

[najjia]

wow, nick i read ur story. its sad u werent able to know more about ur mom's culture. im mestiza myself & both my rents r mixed filipinos.

however im lucky enough to have been brought up learning a lot about my culture & my people. i cant imagine how life would be if i wasnt.

take it easy on urself & be proud of what you are. you are a mix of 2 fabulous cultures.

[vegasmom]

Nicknick, hey man I feel you! But don't you think the F*** Y** comment was a little much. It's your choice if you want to continue to be bitter. Although if you spoke a little more positively. People would more likely want to listen. Just a thought sweetheart! =)

[rice cracker]

OMG I cannot believe you misunderstood my post exactly like I feared you would. I asked you politely to leave my name and change the grammar. You did the exact opposite and misunderstood what was important to me. Did anybody just catch this huge misunderstanding. I said "please leave my surname because even though I'm slightly ashamed of how I feel I still mean it." Just take the whole fucking thing down please. Now I really feel like an idiot, thanks. and fuck you.

Well, I was going to fix your original post, until I read through to this one. Now I'm leaving it the way it is.

And next time you want a change made, it's a really good idea not to say "fuck you" to the person with the power to change it.

[deez nuts]

Hi I noticed you moved my original post back into activity. That's fine. I was going to write to ask you to delete it because of fear of employers looking up my name and seeing it, but honestly it is one of the most heartfelt things I've ever written and I hope it stays on the internet a long time for good or bad. Seeing as how you took that "F**K WHITE PEOPLE" stuff out I was wondering if you could please edit one more thing. In the last line the sentence reads:

"nobody like him."

it should read

"nobody likes him" --> Because nobody likes the mole

That has always bothered me. Thanks for leaving up my post. Whenever I type my name into google I get a reminder of how sad and pathetic I am, which for some reason makes me feel better. Maybe I am not so alone in this world. This whole race issue was very private to me. It is what I stuggle with.

In case anyone is wondering what I have been doing lately in my fight against being asian. I've bought braces and I'm going to get my overbite surgically corrected. I have discovered recently that the bridge of my nose is very low. I may have this corrected. I have wide cheek bones, but I'm not sure this can be fixed.

Nick

OMG I cannot believe you misunderstood my post exactly like I feared you would. I asked you politely to leave my name and change the grammar. You did the exact opposite and misunderstood what was important to me. Did anybody just catch this huge misunderstanding. I said "please leave my surname because even though I'm slightly ashamed of how I feel I still mean it." Just take the whole fucking thing down please. Now I really feel like an idiot, thanks. and fuck you.


hahahahaha. cry more, crazy man!

[kimpossible]

OMG I cannot believe you misunderstood my post exactly like I feared you would. I asked you politely to leave my name and change the grammar. You did the exact opposite and misunderstood what was important to me. Did anybody just catch this huge misunderstanding. I said "please leave my surname because even though I'm slightly ashamed of how I feel I still mean it." Just take the whole fucking thing down please. Now I really feel like an idiot, thanks. and fuck you.

I'll explain how editing works. It's very flexible. I can potentially put it back at any time. And may do so if I feel I want to do anything further for you. At this point in time, I'm not.

My biggest concern was for your privacy in relation to your job and supervisors. It's a serious issue that we've addressed for some members and as a moderator my intention was to protect you, knowing if that really wasn't what you wanted, and you were sure, you'd let me know in what I assumed would be a less panicked, high-strung manner and I, or another supermod/mod, could have handled the request.

I did not leave you high and dry without choices.

Apologies to hapa forum mods for the off-topic post.

[nicknick]

I'll explain how editing works. It's very flexible. I can potentially put it back at any time. And may do so if I feel I want to do anything further for you. At this point in time, I'm not.

My biggest concern was for your privacy in relation to your job and supervisors. It's a serious issue that we've addressed for some members and as a moderator my intention was to protect you, knowing if that really wasn't what you wanted, and you were sure, you'd let me know in what I assumed would be a less panicked, high-strung manner and I, or another supermod/mod, could have handled the request.

I did not leave you high and dry without choices.

Apologies to hapa forum mods for the off-topic post.

Thank you. Please remove my name and surname from the post again. I know how the world works now. You see white people hate brown people and ugly people are just ugly. Complaining does not help in fact it is more just an admission of guilt. I am beautiful just how I am. I apologize for saying fuck you.

I will live my life and die alone.

[BeTheReds]

yall hapas is messed up!

[rice cracker]

Took you a month and a half to cool down, huh?

[Hiroshi2]

God, this is depressing.


Let's talk about the good things about being half-asian!

[BeTheReds]

God, this is depressing.


Let's talk about the good things about being half-asian!


That's not allowed.

Just kidding... But this thread here is for people with identitiy issues, as such, participants probably wouldn't be talking about their love of hapaness.

Read forum guidelines if you are interested in starting one though....

[mandonfire]

Right, this is an Asian AMERICAN forum, arse. Wrong continent. Anyway, what? Half Asians? Yes, yes, life is crap etc.

Nah, anyway, have always preferred Asian side of family as the phrase 'blood runs thicker than water' is always actively demonstrated.

[BeTheReds]

Wrong continent, arse? Oi baitcha loikta eatha fesh n cheps then aye?

[BigLew]

BTR your all kinds of late today bro.

[capacitor276]

Growing up hapa can be tough, but let's not exaggerate here. It's not like us mixed kids are growing up in extremely unstable/dangerous environments. Being mixed is just another challenge, but for me it has been more a personal challenge than a professional one.

[BigLew]

Growing up hapa can be tough, but let's not exaggerate here. It's not like us mixed kids are growing up in extremely unstable/dangerous environments. Being mixed is just another challenge, but for me it has been more a personal challenge than a professional one.

Dude you're 19 you have a little bit to go before you find out how much of a professional challenge it will be.

Also don't dismiss anyone elses experience by suggesting exaggeratation. The only life you live is your own.

[capacitor276]

Dude you're 19 you have a little bit to go before you find out how much of a professional challenge it will be.

Also don't dismiss anyone elses experience by suggesting exaggeratation. The only life you live is your own.

There can be problems when people identify solely as being mixed. Instead of saying, for example, I am a student and a musician, some hapas define themselves as mixed before anything else. And the problem arises in that if being hapa is such an integral part of your life, then it is very easy to fall into the role of a victim in everything you do. Someone didn't like you? It's not because of personality differences, it's because you're a hapa. Didn't get that job at school? It's not because the other candidate had more experience than you, it's because you're a hapa. See what I mean?

I've been in that position before, sadly. When I was my early teens, I always identified as the "other", and blamed many injustices on what I saw as being racism. I definitely experienced racism more than once, some rather incidents come to mind right now. so I'm not discounting racism when it happens, which it unfortunately often does. What I meant by the "let's not exaggerate" part of my previous post is that you shouldn't see everything in terms of discrimination solely because you are mixed.

[BigLew]

What you are saying is valid for any race. At the same time being an ethnic minority period, it;s harder to find something to latch onto. I think in a ways everyone needs to go through a phase like that and experience what it is to overcome it. And for the record I am not hapa. Just so any noobs don't get it twisted.

[bajinay]

hi everyone!! i'm new here and i thought this was very interesting. i'm half west indian (black) and half filipino. and i'm also 1st generation american. i think growing up biracial is pretty difficult but i didn't pay much attention my "identity issues" until after my dad retired from the military (he did 20 yrs in the marines). after that, we moved to this little town in riverside county california where the population is predominantly white.

then i became much more aware of it. b/c of immigration issues most of my family including my mother still lives in the PI. i think i really missed out on the culture a lot growing up mostly in the states. but not just my filipino culture but my west indian culture too. but i guess that's life and if there isn't someone providing that culture for you, i don't think there's anyone stopping you from learning more about it.

i think it's great to be biracial sometimes but i do envy monoracial people, on both sides. what bothers me most though is the racism i feel from both sides. west indians don't accept me b/c they think that i think that i am better than them. which i don't. and the same for african americans, especially african american females. and of course, filipinos can be well...very racist towards me. even my own grandmother is racist towards us. but she readily abandoned my mother and her siblings for a white navy officer.

if i'm with a half white half asian friend, i noticed wherever we go, they get treated much better than me, especially in asian communities. it really urks me because it seems like the asian community are so biased towards whites. i don't understand if both blacks and asians are minorities, why are they racist against each other? why do both prefer the white culture so much over one another. i feel like people who think this way empower the white race and keep america the way it is. it really bothers me too. especially since i go to a predominantly white upper class university, i see a lot of asian americans desperately trying to fit into the white culture and these same asian look down on me. and at the same time, a lot of the white people are looking down on them. it just seems so ridiculous to me. i don't think all asians or blacks or whites are all like this. but what i have seen so far in my little 19 years have shown so. it makes me very sad. i guess i'm just too used to diversity being a military brat....

[BeTheReds]

i feel like people who think this way empower the white race and keep america the way it is. it really bothers me too. especially since i go to a predominantly white upper class university, i see a lot of asian americans desperately trying to fit into the white culture and these same asian look down on me. and at the same time, a lot of the white people are looking down on them. it just seems so ridiculous to me.

Ah, the old racial heirarchy ladder. I certainly hope that we can all come together, including whites. As whites become less and less of a majority perhaps this will be possible.

[Sarah7106]

Oh my goodness. Reading this forum is making me re-think bringing children into this world. My husband is Asian and I'm white and I always thought Hapas were such pretty people that I wanted my children to be hapa and now I'm seeing that they may have identity issues and I would just feel guilty putting even more pressure on my children than what already has presented itself in today's society.

[rice cracker]

I fully support your sterilization.

[AngryABCGirl]

cry me a river

[professorfrink]

Jesus, I can't believe I missed this...

Love,
prof. frink

[mr. x]

Oh my goodness. Reading this forum is making me re-think bringing children into this world. My husband is Asian and I'm white and I always thought Hapas were such pretty people that I wanted my children to be hapa and now I'm seeing that they may have identity issues and I would just feel guilty putting even more pressure on my children than what already has presented itself in today's society.

Jesus the writer's strike is starting to hit the forums

[BeTheReds]

My husband is Asian and I'm white.

Your children will be part of the solution rather than part of the problem!

[/sarcasm]

[bajinay]

...I always thought Hapas were such pretty people that I wanted my children to be hapa...

wow.

[BeTheReds]

Wow? come on, are you really surprised anymore?

[bajinay]

no, it's typical. but that was more for her than for everyone else. :smile:

[Sunflare]

I tried to post a thread (http://forums.yellowworld.org/showthread.php?t=34408) for Hapas, Blasians and other persons of mixed descent to express their appreciation of their multiracial identity. I got the following sobering and truthful response:

Pride in being mixed on an individual basis is fine, but calling for one segment of the YW population to show collective pride in the face of others who don't share that aspect for which they are showing pride only serves to divide YW. In the Asian-American community we need more solidarity. The hapas who want to show pride in being hapa can choose to not be thought of as Asian-Americans if they want to.

My take on that:

I did'nt realize that, as BeTheReds suggested, that there are quite a number of Hapas' here on this forum and other forums that prefer not to be labeled as an Asian American instead of expressing their rich heritage with pride.

There are some mixed Asians out there in the world, unaware that these APA sites exist and lacking understanding of APA empowerment issues. Such individuals do not acknowledge their Asian heritage for whatever reason, and like to put down those who are DAMN proud of their roots. I think they fit into 3 basic categories:

1) Afro-Asians (some not all) who ignore their Asian heritage and label themselves as Black via 'the drop one race rule' because of intense pressure from society or family and peers to be black, . . . . .even if they are f--king 99.9999% Asian. [<< wild exaggeration but you guys get the point.] Those ones in question here are afraid to identify themselves as Afro-Asians, proud of their rich cultural observations becasue they are too timid and pussy to stand up for themselves as mixed Asian Americans.

2) Eurasians (some, not all. OK already?) who ignore their Asian heritage and label themselves as white because of the benifit of white privilage as a honorary white citizen

3) Mixed Asians who simply could'nt give two flying shits about their identity to begin with. Too busy with personal issues and no time to debate or ponder on subjects like this.

So what benifit are they getting from this site then ? It would be better for them to go to Eurasian Nation or one of the Afro-American forums, etc. to discuss issues concerning their heritage that they choose to be called by. This is no sarcasm on my part, I think that is really what they should consider doing. It might be better for them, they may learn more there and be better entertained and happy hearing from the members there that they can relate with.

I hope you guys understand my true intentions of this OP, I'm not trying to stir up resentment and fiery debate.

I would like some clarification on on this observation I made on this site concerning YW (and other forums) who are mixed Asians. Again this thread is not trollish flamebait. I am just honestly looking for truthful, intelligent, insightful responses to my concerns. I want to be encouraging with my responses and not intentionally tear people down.

Thanks again BetheReds for your input. This is lending alot of food for thought.

[BeTheReds]

Crystal, the point you brought up is in total agreement with my point. For the hapas who don't consider themselves Asian-Americans, Yellowworld isn't going to be of much use to them. Furthermore expressed pride in being mixed, being not Asian or what have you on a site specifically for Asian-Americans only serves to divide us. There's a reason why on YW there is no Korean-Americans forum or Chinese-Americans forum. We don't need more division.

On the converse, people like to make the arguement that a hapa claiming to be Asian-American denies a part of himself. I don't believe that is true. We should have the right to self-identify however we want to and if others can't deal with it, be they monoracial Asians, Whites, Blacks, or even other hapas, fuck 'em.

The worst is when the "we are the new race" eurasians come to town and talk about racial solidarity and keeping the pure Eurasian race in tact, and how we're neither Asian nor White, but both, but neither, but both, and asians and whities are racist and we'll own the world someday... and find a Eurasian that doesn't want to join their platform. Then the venom starts to fly.

Just relax

Oh, and most of YW's hapas are here to discuss AA issues and identify as Asian-Americans, those who don't tend to leave after 1 or 2 months. You might notice that's why our hapa forum is less than busy.