"Blacks" on hapas

[Yeahman]

I am sitting in a classroom right now after class. There are two black girls talking about mixed races. I honestly didn't even know one of them was black. She looks Hispanic. She can't be more than a quarter black. They were talking about how "blacks" (which apparently includes any drop of African blood) who identify as "mixed" have an inferiority complex and that the same goes for hapas. What do you think?

[Sunflare]

^^I think she's a fool. She's obviously talking out of plain stupidity. Maybe she just finished smoking crack with her friend before she started running her mouth like a chickenhead with that crap. :mad: :mad: :mad:

[popculturepooka]

I am sitting in a classroom right now after class. There are two black girls talking about mixed races. I honestly didn't even know one of them was black. She looks Hispanic. She can't be more than a quarter black. They were talking about how "blacks" (which apparently includes any drop of African blood) who identify as "mixed" have an inferiority complex and that the same goes for hapas. What do you think?

This kind of sentiment is common in the "black" community.
If you are mixed but you look black or even was raised around predominately black people, you should identify as black. The thought train seems to be: "nobody else wants to be associated with you (be it asians, whites, hispanics or whatever group), so just identify with being black, show them that you are proud of being black."

I do believe that the whole inferority complex thing has some truth to it sometimes. There are some people that will vehmently deny their black side, because being seen as black is just plain bad in this society. There are some people will go out of their way to tell you that they are mixed (as if you should care). There are some "mixed blacks" who just clearly don't want to be black and dissassociate them selves with anything periceved as "black" be it music, clothes, speech, people or whatever.

But, for the most part I believe it's just that blacks are still stuck on the archaic "one drop" rule, just like most everybody else in America.

I have alot of respect for most black mixed people that refuse to deny other parts of their heritage, when it seems the like the whole world is trying to to fit them into the neat, comfortable "black" category.

[draconisz]

Hello Everyone. Let me get myself into trouble right quick. I guess this identity thing is a big deal because of the upcoming election. Barack, despite his ancestry identifies himself as a "Black" or African-American male.

I would not go so far as to claim mixed "Black" people are ashamed of their identity. But I find it awfully troubling that "Blacks" are held to a standard. We aren't much different than any other group when it comes to racism. We are always trying to cover up or hide what we feel are weaknesses. But one of our strengths has always been our identity. African-American are multiracial, that's our history. Historically, we have been a group of rejects. That's why we have the racial make-up that we have.

But somehow things have switched up. Other groups can get away with strictly and narrowly defining themselves, but we can't. It is like being so accommodating and open to receive folks just brings criticism.

And I don't understand why, especially given our history.

[Thaddaeus]

i'm black and i don't have a racial inferiority complex (that i'm aware of anyway). is it your experience that all blacks have such inferiority complexes? or just black hapa people?

[Sunflare]

I have alot of respect for most black mixed people that refuse to deny other parts of their heritage, when it seems the like the whole world is trying to to fit them into the neat, comfortable "black" category.

Yeah. Exactly. Blasians are under alot of pressure to fit into the neat comfortable 'Black' category if they are to be accepted by the masses.

It's all good if you just shut up and act 'black' like you're supposed to.

But if you dare do anything to show interest in your Asian heritage or identify with it, you are in big trouble. People will ask you all sorts of stupid questions and critizise you if you are Blasian and identify yourself as an mixed-Asian American.

They will question you for your motives in your showing interest and appreciation of your rich heritage, if whether by reading up on the history of your forefathers, learning the language they spoke, getting involved in the Asian community, or just by hanging out with friends that share the same Asian heritage. They think you are sellout trash,or becoming like a uncle tom or something.

Even with dating, it's a problem. If you are dating a BF or a WF, shiiiiet, it's allright. Everything's all sugar sweet and sunshine. But as soon as you even dare date an AF, you got *big* problems on your hands from all parties straight across the board, accusing you of having yellow fever or sum bullshit, even though you are part fucking Asian. Why don't these same people grill the shit out of Hapas who date people their own race the same way? I wonder. . . .

Blasians have to try twice as hard as persons of pure racial descent to maintain their identity and live their life the way they want it. They are burning the candle on both ends, sort of speak, since they are meeting up with friction caused by people belonging from both parts of their dual heritage, as well, as the usual crap from white people. Sometimes many Blasians try too hard and come off looking like they are in denial of their African or Asian heritage, when they are not.

I can't speak for all persons of dual heritage, but that was what I learned from my life. I'm sure the Hapa experience must be quite different, and that even other Afro-Asians may have a very different outlook on this heated subject.

I hope I am not offending anyone by this post, that is not my intentions, I just think I'm telling the honest truth. . . .

[Yeahman]

My 2 cents... I think it's different for blacks than it is for Asians. Tiger Woods and Obama look black. A quarter Asian doesn't look Asian. Our identity is usually tied to what we look like.

[VV o n g B a]

Even with dating, it's a problem. If you are dating a BF or a WF, shiiiiet, it's allright. Everything's all sugar sweet and sunshine. But as soon as you even dare date an AF, you got *big* problems on your hands from all parties straight across the board, accusing you of having yellow fever or sum bullshit, even though you are part fucking Asian. Why don't these same people grill the shit out of Hapas who date people their own race the same way? I wonder. . . .when u say all parties, u're saying blacks, white and asians all criticize u? obviously i know that asians might say something about yellow fever, but i didn't know that blacks or whites would say the same thing. i didn't realize that many ppl even knew what the term meant.

[Sunflare]

when u say all parties, u're saying blacks, white and asians all criticize u? obviously i know that asians might say something about yellow fever, but i didn't know that blacks or whites would say the same thing. i didn't realize that many ppl even knew what the term meant.

Yeah. That's what I meant, I did'nt want to be direct with my anger projecting out of the computer screen, so I was non-specific.

They way some blacks , Asians, and whites would act towards Afro-Asians who date AF's is different but bad nethertheless.

Yup. I have even whites and blacks accuse me of having yellow fever the times myself or other Blasians dated AF's. They are sharp on the IR dating disparity issue, but with really fucked up views on it (some, not all). I get it all the time, especially from older folks.

My 2 cents... I think it's different for blacks than it is for Asians. Tiger Woods and Obama look black. A quarter Asian doesn't look Asian. Our identity is usually tied to what we look like.

That is certainly true . . . . . . most of the time.

If you look more Asian, then most people throw you into the 'Latino' category.

[draconisz]

i'm black and i don't have a racial inferiority complex (that i'm aware of anyway). is it your experience that all blacks have such inferiority complexes? or just black hapa people?

I can only speak for those that have understood me and agree with me. That would be folks that I have spoken to in my neighborhood and at the forums that I either moderate or participate in. I am an African-American largely because of the rejection by other groups. Had American Indians been more accommodating, I could have been one. Had "Whites" been more accomodating, I could have been one. I became a member of the only group that could and would accept me.

Why should I be pissed off about that? I mean, one would think that a "mixed" person would be at least as angry with the groups that reject them as they are with the ones that accept them.

As for the inferiority complex, I am not so naive to pretend that everyone is happy and satisfied with being "Black", especially African-Americans. Perhaps native Africans or Caribbeans don't have as many issues with their connection to Africanness. But I know I have had my own personal battles to fight. I used to think I was "un-Black" because of the way I talked, my interests, and my education. When I was "awakened", I found out that many "Blacks" used proper english, dressed well, liked Berlioz, and had much more education than me. Beyond that, I found out that the "Black" experience wasn't exactly what I thought it was.

Understand, the inferiority complex isn't about an individual. It is about a group and what one thinks of a group's behavior, culture, history, and beliefs. That "complex" becomes a rejection of an experience either because of the stereotypes associated with it or flatout thinking the experience is inferior to other ones.

My 2 cents... I think it's different for blacks than it is for Asians. Tiger Woods and Obama look black. A quarter Asian doesn't look Asian. Our identity is usually tied to what we look like.

That option is always open to you. Why "Black" folks get into trouble over this, I will never understand. But I know this much, most are not going to continue to put up with it.

We can be just as strict in our definition as anyone else.

[Sunflare]

But I know I have had my own personal battles to fight. I used to think I was "un-Black" because of the way I talked, my interests, and my education. When I was "awakened", I found out that many "Blacks" used proper english, dressed well, liked Berlioz, and had much more education than me. Beyond that, I found out that the "Black" experience wasn't exactly what I thought it was.

I went through the same phase. People used to express dislike for me because of the way I talk, dress, etc. But eventually, I woke up and realized that they are the one with the problem, not me. (People in general.)

[draconisz]

Yeah. Exactly. Blasians are under alot of pressure to fit into the neat comfortable 'Black' category if they are to be accepted by the masses.

It's all good if you just shut up and act 'black' like you're supposed to.

But if you dare do anything to show interest in your Asian heritage or identify with it, you are in big trouble. People will ask you all sorts of stupid questions and critizise you if you are Blasian and identify yourself as an mixed-Asian American.

They will question you for your motives in your showing interest and appreciation of your rich heritage, if whether by reading up on the history of your forefathers, learning the language they spoke, getting involved in the Asian community, or just by hanging out with friends that share the same Asian heritage. They think you are sellout trash,or becoming like a uncle tom or something.

Even with dating, it's a problem. If you are dating a BF or a WF, shiiiiet, it's allright. Everything's all sugar sweet and sunshine. But as soon as you even dare date an AF, you got *big* problems on your hands from all parties straight across the board, accusing you of having yellow fever or sum bullshit, even though you are part fucking Asian. Why don't these same people grill the shit out of Hapas who date people their own race the same way? I wonder. . . .

Blasians have to try twice as hard as persons of pure racial descent to maintain their identity and live their life the way they want it. They are burning the candle on both ends, sort of speak, since they are meeting up with friction caused by people belonging from both parts of their dual heritage, as well, as the usual crap from white people. Sometimes many Blasians try too hard and come off looking like they are in denial of their African or Asian heritage, when they are not.

I can't speak for all persons of dual heritage, but that was what I learned from my life. I'm sure the Hapa experience must be quite different, and that even other Afro-Asians may have a very different outlook on this heated subject.

I hope I am not offending anyone by this post, that is not my intentions, I just think I'm telling the honest truth. . . .

Hello CrystalClear. I am not sure if I know the difference between a Blasian and an Afro-Asian. Is it that Afro-Asians try to id with both sides of their heritage?

As for Blasians dating an AF, I am not sure why people would give them a pass, if they think Asianphiles are a problem. I have met a few "Black" Asianphiles in my lifetime. Indeed, I could have been one if my path were not diverted when I was much younger. Now if I have the wrong idea about Blasians, you need to correct my thinking.

As for your experience with rejection by the "Black" community, I can only say that I am sorry. But I think things will definitely get worse before they get better. If you have met Asians who accept you as being an Asian, that is indeed good to hear.

But I said something awhile back, and I won't retreat from it.

Shouldn't all groups be held to the same standard?

I went through the same phase. People used to express dislike for me because of the way I talk, dress, etc. But eventually, I woke up and realized that they are the one with the problem, not me. (People in general.)

Crystal, I think that was actually quite a different conclusion.

Example, throughout my entire youth, I attended a "Black" grade school. Because of the media stereotypes I was exposed to, for awhile, I seemed to have forgotten about that whole experience. Somehow, after high school/college, I seemed to replace the experience of "Black" people wanting and doing everything they could to educate their youth with something else.

The community I came from was one of "Black" churches. They pooled resources to create a number of grade schools/high schools to educate the children of the community. A few of them were recognized as some of the best schools in the state.

I guess when I watched BET one day, I forgot about that and replaced the experience with Hip-Hop and 106 n' Park.

And I can't even tell you why.

[Sunflare]

i'm black and i don't have a racial inferiority complex (that i'm aware of anyway). is it your experience that all blacks have such inferiority complexes? or just black hapa people?

Alot of my Hapa friends admit that they get by easier than Blasians because of the privilage they have since they are half white. But even still they have similar problems.

I had to come in for a Hapa girl one time because a WM friend of hers made a racist comment about her in connection to her European last name. That shit got me heated. He NEVAR made that mistake ever again after I was through with him. Now he's ultra PC. She is currently trying hard to learn her mother's native language since she identifies herself more as an AF more than a WF.

She has a Blasian cousin who is also doing the same thing, except here in this case, he has to deal with the 'drop-one race' rule and is expected to act black, yet he looks mostly Asian like his cousin. In fact I can really see the same facial features on both the Hapa girl and the Blasian guy. (Their AF moms are sisters.) I thought that was freaking awesome.

I also heard many Hapas complain about people who mistake them for being Spanish.

I really think people from all minority groups, in general, have identity problems to deal with. Except whites because of white privilage. They are usually just confused about their sexual orientation and stuff like that.

Hello CrystalClear. I am not sure if I know the difference between a Blasian and an Afro-Asian. Is it that Afro-Asians try to id with both sides of their heritage?

No difference. The term Afro-Asian is the PC term, the affectionate term, Blasian. It just describes a person of African and Asian heritage, nothing more.

Crystal, I think that was actually quite a different conclusion.

Our experience is similar in some respects. First, we both grew up in a predominantly Afro-American enviorment. Second, we both got flack because of the way which we chose to carry ourselves with our manner of speaking contrary to the belief that all blacks speak with bad ebonics.

But our conclusions are different like you said, it's because of how we currently identify ourselves as.

Question: Are you of mixed descent? It sounds like it by your comments.

[draconisz]

Alot of my Hapa friends admit that they get by easier than Blasians because of the privilage they have since they are half white. But even still they have similar problems.

I had to come in for a Hapa girl one time because a WM friend of hers made a racist comment about her in connection to her European last name. That shit got me heated. He NEVAR made that mistake ever again after I was through with him. Now he's ultra PC. She is currently trying hard to learn her mother's native language since she identifies herself more as an AF more than a WF.

She has a Blasian cousin who is also doing the same thing, except here in this case, he has to deal with the 'drop-one race' rule and is expected to act black, yet he looks mostly Asian like his cousin. In fact I can really see the same facial features on both the Hapa girl and the Blasian guy. (Their AF moms are sisters.) I thought that was freaking awesome.

I also heard many Hapas complain about people who mistake them for being Spanish.

I really think people from all minority groups, in general, have identity problems to deal with. Except whites because of white privilage. They are usually just confused about their sexual orientation and stuff like that.



No difference. The term Afro-Asian is the PC term, the affectionate term, Blasian. It just describes a person of African and Asian heritage, nothing more.



Our experience is similar in some respects. First, we both grew up in a predominantly Afro-American enviorment. Second, we both got flack because of the way which we chose to carry ourselves with our manner of speaking contrary to the belief that all blacks speak with bad ebonics.

But our conclusions are different like you said, it's because of how we currently identify ourselves as.

Question: Are you of mixed descent? It sounds like it by your comments.

I apologize, Crystal. I should have explained earlier. I do not identify as "mixed". I am just "Black". I think it is weird that you ran into an issue about speaking. I know that children often run into some issues with their peers. It isn't as big a deal among most teenagers I know today. But I did run into problems because of my love for classical music, computer technology, etc.

But that isn't the whole story. I also worked as tutor for other "Black" kids and most of the older people in my community absolutely adored me.

The problem for me was that I couldn't fit it. It really wasn't related to my interests or speech. I hated those days.

[kimpossible]

that the same goes for hapas. What do you think?

Did they actually say the word hapa? I've never heard anyone use it in real life. Only online.

edit: I take that back. I first heard it from Hawaiian Asians.

[Sunflare]

that the same goes for hapas. What do you think?


Did they actually say the word hapa? I've never heard anyone use it in real life. Only online.

edit: I take that back. I first heard it from Hawaiian Asians.

You have a point. I usually have to use the PC term Eurasian when I am discussing in person to strangers, things concerning Hapas since alot of people are still unfamiliar with the term or take offense at it altogether.

I never heard of the term Hapa (or Blasian for that matter) until the word gained usage on the net.

[Yeahman]

^ Yes, the Hispanic-looking black girl used the word "hapa."

[Sunflare]

^ Yes, the Hispanic-looking black girl used the word "hapa."

Yeah. Because she's a fool like I said.

[draconisz]

I first heard the term "Blasian" at the Bumblebee. It doesn't matter to me. I will call folks whatever they want to be called.

[Sunflare]

I first heard the term "Blasian" at the Bumblebee. It doesn't matter to me. I will call folks whatever they want to be called.

The "Bumblebee" !!?? :confused:

[draconisz]

The "Bumblebee" !!?? :confused:


Black/Asian forum at DelphiForums. I have not been there in awhile. They don't really focus on Blasian or Hapa issues. The site is predominantly about relations between the two communities. I was co-creator.

[Sunflare]

Black/Asian forum at DelphiForums. I have not been there in awhile. They don't really focus on Blasian or Hapa issues. The site is predominantly about relations between the two communities. I was co-creator.

The ones I heard of are 'Euphoria' and 'Black Asian Interracial Unity' -- both on Yahoo Groups! and 'Black Asian Families With Children' on MSN Groups. And there's more under the thread 'Hapa resources' I just realized.

There's more, but I can't remember what they are at the moment. . . .

[draconisz]

Well, we were really rocking and rolling for awhile. We had Asians coming in from the States and overseas. "Black" folks, of course, were easy to round up.

[thaite]

If you are a hot, female Blasian, call me, baby.

[LaiSteve66]

hey were talking about how "blacks" (which apparently includes any drop of African blood) who identify as "mixed" have an inferiority complex and that the same goes for hapas. What do you think?

What do Blacks and Hispanics know about "hapas"? Not a DAMN thing.

[kimpossible]

Well, we were really rocking and rolling for awhile. We had Asians coming in from the States and overseas. "Black" folks, of course, were easy to round up.

If I may say so, it may not be due to lack of interest in your site. I suspect the forum method of social networking was killed by MySpace, Facebook, journal communities, etc. Generational difference and tech evolution. I think forum is well on its way out.

[Sunflare]

If you are a hot, female Blasian, call me, baby.

LOL. To describe your unique taste in women, I shall coin the term 'Blasiaphile.' :biggrin:

. . . .and NO. I don't have any sisters. :wink:

[kimpossible]

. . . .and NO. I don't have any sisters. :wink:

No fair. You anticipated his next question.

[thaite]

Oh DAMN!!

[BeTheReds]

My 2 cents... I think it's different for blacks than it is for Asians. Tiger Woods and Obama look black. A quarter Asian doesn't look Asian. Our identity is usually tied to what we look like.

Are you okay with that?

[Napoleon Chynamite]

My 2 cents... I think it's different for blacks than it is for Asians. Tiger Woods and Obama look black. A quarter Asian doesn't look Asian. Our identity is usually tied to what we look like.

It's obvious though that our minds have been programmed from the start to have a tendency to recognize the one-drop rule...because logically speaking on average, someone who is 1/4th Asian should look just as Asian as someone who is 1/4th African looks African, but our eyes have been trained to be a lot more quick in categorizing people with remotely African features to be black whereas it's not the same case with Asiatic features. People can argue that it might be because the Asiatic and European phenotypes have more overlap, but you can easily argue the reverse by pointing at traits such as African and European phenotypes tending to involve more prominent browbones, absence of epicanthic folds, narrower faces, regressed jawbones and cheekbones, and so on; not to mention that geneticists have found African and European haplotypes to have more in common with each other than either has with Asian (usually East Asian) ones.

Take Beyonce for example, she most definitely has more European ancestry than anything else, being that one of her parents is completely white and her other parent is African American, indicating that there is almost certainly the presence of European blood mixed in with African blood. However, despite the fact that she is over half white, many of us would still have to be told that she is even just half white for us to actually know. If we weren't informed otherwise, we'd have just assumed she was black off the bat.

[Craig]

I know plenty of Asian people that do not consider Asian-looking people that are 75% Asian as Asian. Of course, since most of these assholes are in this lovely country, they probably consider Tiger Woods and Keanu Reeves as Asian. Actually, I think many of these same assholes would consider Obama an Asian by association, especially if he became the Democratic nominee and president.

[Sunflare]

I know plenty of Asian people that do not consider Asian-looking people that are 75% Asian as Asian. Of course, since most of these assholes are in this lovely country, they probably consider Tiger Woods and Keanu Reeves as Asian. Actually, I think many of these same assholes would consider Obama an Asian by association, especially if he became the Democratic nominee and president.


Interesting that you said that. There are alot of nieve, confused, hypocritical people here in this country that can't think out of the box and get with the program already ,as far as race relations are concerned.

but our eyes have been trained to be a lot more quick in categorizing people with remotely African features to be black whereas it's not the same case with Asiatic features.

Pardon my rant. . . .

Just as a mulatto who has vague Negroid features will be labeled as full black altogether, many of the Hapas' also are mistakingly assumed to be full Asian when they are not.

I noticed that the non-Asian pervert loser asiaphiles are notorious for this kind of labeling using the drop one race rule. Eurasian women in particular.

All they know and can understand with their shriveled-up, pea-brained minds is the "hot mystical 'Oriental' woman" model or the "Japanese schoolgirl due for a tentacle fuck or bukakke" model.

Oh veah, not to mention the 'Geisha girl' model. "Ohh! The big pretty slanted eyes they have!! So fucking hot !! I'm gonna cum in my pants !!" These fucking morons can't tell the difference. They all look the same to them, hot easy AF's for love good time.

Many of these boneheads act according to a subconcious Hapa female fetish, thinking it's a plain ol' AF fetish and don't even realize it. (or want to admit it.)

Talk about using the 'Drop one race rule" !!! :mad: :mad: :mad:

[kimpossible]

I would say there are Asian hapaphiles as well. I would even say there are some on YW.

[Sunflare]

I would say there are Asian hapaphiles as well. I would even say there are some on YW.

Well at least the Asian asiaphiles and the Asian hapaphiles, many of them on this site, are more appreciative of Asian culture, are more concerned about APA issues , and to a considerable extent worth of commendation, ever the still more concerned about issues concerning mixed Asian Americans . It's all good.

As for most of the non-Asian ones, I dunno . . . . .

[kimpossible]

That was meant to be tongue in cheek. =)

[Sunflare]

^ :sigh: I got alot to learn. :redface:

[AngryABCGirl]

I know plenty of Asian people that do not consider Asian-looking people that are 75% Asian as Asian. Of course, since most of these assholes are in this lovely country, they probably consider Tiger Woods and Keanu Reeves as Asian. Actually, I think many of these same assholes would consider Obama an Asian by association, especially if he became the Democratic nominee and president.

Interestingly enough, Bruce Lee was 75% Asian, his mother was half-German.

[Napoleon Chynamite]

^ I've heard disputes that he is actually 1/8th German and not a fourth because his mother was actually only a quarter German, or something. Regardless, Asian people are always quick to claim Bruce Lee as a fellow Asian b/c he was badass.

[Kimuchi]

My 2 cents... I think it's different for blacks than it is for Asians. Tiger Woods and Obama look black. A quarter Asian doesn't look Asian. Our identity is usually tied to what we look like.

The site won't allow me to make links until I've make over 15 posts sorry.



That's because African genes are often more dominant than European and Asian genes. All of humanity can trace itself back to a black African ancestor, and any changes on the way have been genes shut off. For instance, blue eyed people can be traced back to a common ancestor from 6 to 10 thousand years ago. The gene shuts off melanin production (the pigment that makes skin darker). I'm a geneticist and genetically speaking black people have the genetic capacity to be any race on earth. All you would have to do is shut of genes. I.E. shutting of the gene that makes the proteins that makes their hair curly, turning down melanin production across the board, making their bones more brittle(sorry my white and asian bretheren), and soften the bone structure ... and you have a white person, asian, indian, whatever. You can't do the reverse. It's interesting ... genetically speaking of course it should be the black people that feel superior as they collectively have the genetic code for all humanity. Other groups can't really say that. My point is that it doesn't take much more than a "drop" of being black to change how you look, because their genetics carries more dominant genes, which is neither good or bad ... just science. Don't be mad.

[kimpossible]

^I'm not sure but I think Yeahman meant it as a social construct and not a purely scientific one.

[kimkyok]

My 2 cents... I think it's different for blacks than it is for Asians. Tiger Woods and Obama look black. A quarter Asian doesn't look Asian. Our identity is usually tied to what we look like.

I'm sorry to say this but he looks more cambodian then black. Thats what I think:redface:

[AngryABCGirl]

I'm sorry to say this but he looks more cambodian then black. Thats what I think:redface:

He actually looks very Thai to me (which he is anyway), especially his face.

[kimkyok]

Well at my school all I said was I'm half siberian mongolian and they kept calling me asian and it really got on my nerves because I'm mixed. I just had to get that out.

[Sunflare]

I'm sorry to hear of your plight. Alot of these people are f--king clueless, but keep on fighting, be proud for who you are.

Many people try to shove it down my throat that I'm black (No offense to Afro-Americans) when my preference is to be identified as Asian. I get this from all persons of all ethnicities respectively. (I'm Afro-Asian, btw)

I understand how you feel. It's not pleasant putting up with this crap every day.

[Nnsukka]

Yeah. Exactly. Blasians are under alot of pressure to fit into the neat comfortable 'Black' category if they are to be accepted by the masses.

It's all good if you just shut up and act 'black' like you're supposed to.

But if you dare do anything to show interest in your Asian heritage or identify with it, you are in big trouble. People will ask you all sorts of stupid questions and critizise you if you are Blasian and identify yourself as an mixed-Asian American.

They will question you for your motives in your showing interest and appreciation of your rich heritage, if whether by reading up on the history of your forefathers, learning the language they spoke, getting involved in the Asian community, or just by hanging out with friends that share the same Asian heritage. They think you are sellout trash,or becoming like a uncle tom or something.

Even with dating, it's a problem. If you are dating a BF or a WF, shiiiiet, it's allright. Everything's all sugar sweet and sunshine. But as soon as you even dare date an AF, you got *big* problems on your hands from all parties straight across the board, accusing you of having yellow fever or sum bullshit, even though you are part fucking Asian. Why don't these same people grill the shit out of Hapas who date people their own race the same way? I wonder. . . .

Blasians have to try twice as hard as persons of pure racial descent to maintain their identity and live their life the way they want it. They are burning the candle on both ends, sort of speak, since they are meeting up with friction caused by people belonging from both parts of their dual heritage, as well, as the usual crap from white people. Sometimes many Blasians try too hard and come off looking like they are in denial of their African or Asian heritage, when they are not.

I can't speak for all persons of dual heritage, but that was what I learned from my life. I'm sure the Hapa experience must be quite different, and that even other Afro-Asians may have a very different outlook on this heated subject.

I hope I am not offending anyone by this post, that is not my intentions, I just think I'm telling the honest truth. . . .

This is bullcrap, in my opinion. I'm an African-American and what you've stated dose not comply with what I've observed in this situation.

[Sunflare]

Right. Are you a hapa? Or a Blasian? How in the world do you all of a sudden have all the insight in the world, calling my real to life experience shit when you dont know what the hapa/blasian experience is all about?

Think, use your head, then speak.

Anything else you like to say? And it better make sense because I am really not in a fucking good mood today.

[Nnsukka]

Right. Are you a hapa? Or a Blasian? How in the world do you all of a sudden have all the insight in the world, calling my real to life experience shit when you dont know what the hapa/blasian experience is all about?

Think, use your head, then speak.

Anything else you like to say? And it better make sense because I am really not in a fucking good mood today.

Tell that to Heinz Ward and Amarie.. just to name a few. All of their stories as well as some Blacks with Asian mixture I personally know... are consistent with my observations on this situation. Like most Mulatto, they do not deny their non-black mixture though then again they are not blind to the fact of that it's with their black kin in whom they are most Cherished and accepted as simply family and "brothers" and "sisters" of the union. It's always been like this and it will always remain so. Some, like you stray at times.. yet in time they always come back.

[Sunflare]

Tell that to Heinz Ward and Amarie.. just to name a few.

I see riddles of inconsistencies in your comment.

Let's start with the names. Get the spelling right. Its Amerie and Hines Ward.

All of their stories as well as some Blacks with Asian mixture I personally know... are consistent with my observations on this situation. Like most Mulatto, they do not deny their non-black mixture though then again they are not blind to the fact of that it's with their black kin in whom they are most Cherished and accepted as simply family and "brothers" and "sisters" of the union. It's always been like this and it will always remain so.

Not you need to get your facts straight. Starting with Hines Ward. He has expressed publically his deep appreciation for his Korean heritage and used his celebrity status as a NFL player for the Pittsburgh Steelers to his advantage.

A little history lesson:

Hines Wards went back to Korea encourage social and political reform there in 2006. He used his status as a celebrity and held 'Hope meetings' to help Hapas and Blasian Children in Korea.

He quoted at one such hope meeting: "If the country can accept me for who I am and accept me for being a Korean, I'm pretty sure that this country can change and accept you for who you are."

Before he left he donated one million dollars to start the the 'Hines Ward Helping Hands Foundation' which purpose is to help those Korean children of mixed descent who face continued discrimination there in that country.

Another history lesson:

We have Amerie, a very beautiful and talented Afro Asian woman in the performing arts. Can you speak for her on how she identifys herself? Maybe you should talk to her and find out instead of speaking in her behalf like you are her official spokesperson or something.

Did you know that the name Amerie is based on the name "Eimeori" (에이머리) ?? Did you know that she can speak Korean in a conversational tone with fluency? Did you know that Amerie is noted for signing her name in both English and Korean when giving autographs ??

That shows right there that Amerie is DAMN PROUD of her Asian heritage. She didn't perform no drop one race rule. She embraced both aspects of her dual heritage and is not afraid to express it.


Some, like you stray at times.. yet in time they always come back.

You are dead wrong. As an Afro Asian:

I will always identify myself as an APA. I will do what I want as an APA. I will always think as an APA.

I respect Afro Americans and their struggle very highly and hold them in high esteem.

But I made my choice and refuse to lose touch with myself and my identity as an Asian American man of mixed descent.

To my grave.

Figuratively speaking : A person can put a gun to my head and try to have me denounce my Asian heritage by force. You know what? I'll rather die identifying myself as an APA. An APA of mixed descent. Pull the damn trigger and try me.

Feel me?

[BeTheReds]

Tell that to Heinz Ward and Amarie.. just to name a few. All of their stories as well as some Blacks with Asian mixture I personally know... are consistent with my observations on this situation. Like most Mulatto, they do not deny their non-black mixture though then again they are not blind to the fact of that it's with their black kin in whom they are most Cherished and accepted as simply family and "brothers" and "sisters" of the union. It's always been like this and it will always remain so. Some, like you stray at times.. yet in time they always come back.

Terrible examples for several reasons.

1. Celebrities don't ever make good examples because most hapas and blasians aren't celebrities. Simply because society acts to a celebrity one way, that doesn't mean they will act similarly to somone of mixed descent in an equal fashion.

2. The celebrities you chose are extremely vocal about their Korean heritages. You should have gone with a celebrity that is mixed but hides the fact.

3. Even if they were not celebrites, your observations of one or two or 10 people that you have encountered don't give you any kind of authority to define the whole group. In one thread, you yourself were incensed when someone talked about "acting black" because it is a broad generalization. Why is it okay to generalize a group whose members have far less in common with each other based on the 5 or 6 observations (and faulty ones at that) of celebrities and other people that you know.

4. You're not a hapa, and being one isn't something you go through. Crystal Clear has way more authority to speak on his experience, as he lives it, than you do, having observed people who aren't even him.


Figuratively speaking : A person can put a gun to my head and try to have me denounce my Asian heritage by force. You know what? I'll rather die identifying myself as an APA. An APA of mixed descent. Pull the damn trigger and try me.

Feel me?

You crazy. Not that this situation would ever happen...

[SunWuKong]

Tell that to Heinz Ward and Amarie.. just to name a few.

or tell that to Tiger Woods...? hahhah, maybe not, eh?

anyway, it wouldn't surprise me much if mixed black/Asian people who were born and raised in the US identify more as black. but since you mentioned two celebrities that were mostly raised in the US, how about celebrities that were mostly raised outside the US? for example, apl.de.ap (from Black Eyed Peas) and Crystal Kay? there are probably other famous mixed black/Asian celebrities in Asia, but you wouldn't really know about them unless you are in touch with the entertainment news over there.

[BeTheReds]

or tell that to Tiger Woods...? hahhah, maybe not, eh?

anyway, it wouldn't surprise me much if mixed black/Asian people who were born and raised in the US identify more as black. but since you mentioned two celebrities that were mostly raised in the US, how about celebrities that were mostly raised outside the US? for example, apl.de.ap (from Black Eyed Peas) and Crystal Kay? there are probably other famous mixed black/Asian celebrities in Asia, but you wouldn't really know about them unless you are in touch with the entertainment news over there.

All good observations, but I think it is more important to count the celebrities as anomalies, not as the standard fare...

[thaite]

Tell that to Heinz Ward and Amarie.. just to name a few. All of their stories as well as some Blacks with Asian mixture I personally know... are consistent with my observations on this situation. Like most Mulatto, they do not deny their non-black mixture though then again they are not blind to the fact of that it's with their black kin in whom they are most Cherished and accepted as simply family and "brothers" and "sisters" of the union. It's always been like this and it will always remain so. Some, like you stray at times.. yet in time they always come back.


Woooooowwww, can you get any more condescending? I'll bet you can. C'mon. Go ahead, try it.

[deez nuts]

T

4. You're not a hapa, and being one isn't something you go through. Crystal Clear has way more authority to speak on his experience, as he lives it, than you do, having observed people who aren't even him.


How is saying that any different than a full blooded Asian dud that he/she has more authority to speak on Asian experiences than a hapa that all you hapas seem to always complain about? Not that I give a shit either way about the hapa or blasian experience or some know it all black dude because he fits one half of the blasian equation which makes him an authority on the subject but I am curious and want to see if it is indeed another case of self pity and/or self victimization.

[LaiSteve66]

How is saying that any different than a full blooded Asian dud that he/she has more authority to speak on Asian experiences than a hapa?

I would argue that your typical full blooded Asian does in fact have more authority to speak on Asian experiences than your typical "hapa".

[kimpossible]

Gentlemen, I gather Dr. BeTheReds is saying that let the mixed person be the expert on how to identify and feel as a mixed person rather than be instructed how he must identify racially.

Yes, there is the external social component where Asians size you up and perform various tests and resulting judgment. But we are not all the same mix and thus, as Dr. BeTheReds has astutely pointed out, we work through our identity individually even if part of the identity is a result of external forces.

CC is Asian via paternal heritage. He carries his father's name which is his grandfather's name. As a male it would be natural for him to look to the males he's most closely descended from. What kind of self-hate would you have to inflict to carry your father's name and deny it? You all may feel differently from this but I suspect CC feels somewhat like this.

We can't help what we are, folks.

[deez nuts]

Gentlemen, I gather Dr. BeTheReds is saying that let the mixed person be the expert on how to identify and feel as a mixed person rather than be instructed how he must identify racially.

Yes, there is the external social component where Asians size you up and perform various tests and resulting judgment. But we are not all the same mix and thus, as Dr. BeTheReds has astutely pointed out, we work through our identity individually even if part of the identity is a result of external forces.

CC is Asian via paternal heritage. He carries his father's name which is his grandfather's name. As a male it would be natural for him to look to the males he's most closely descended from. What kind of self-hate would you have to inflict to carry your father's name and deny it? You all may feel differently from this but I suspect CC feels somewhat like this.

We can't help what we are, folks.

Will you be the e-godmother to my hapa crib midget? I'm about six months from being a father to one.

[BeTheReds]

How is saying that any different than a full blooded Asian dud that he/she has more authority to speak on Asian experiences than a hapa that all you hapas seem to always complain about?

Well to put it simply, All Hapas are Asian, but not all Asians are hapas. I guess it depends on your definition of Asian-American and how inclusive it is. I always thought Yellowworld was supposed to use the more inclusive definition.

And if you read what I was saying when I said that, it was that Crystal Clear is more of an authority on being Crystal Clear than NNsukka is.


Furthermore, I haven't heard that complaint in quite a while. Certianly "all us hapas" aren't complaining about that. Usually when a full blooded asian uses that arguement it's for one of two reasons.
1) He can't defeat an argument presented by a hapa.
2) She needs to prove to herself that she's more Asian than a hapa because she is insecure about it.





Not that I give a shit either way about the hapa or blasian experience or some know it all black dude because he fits one half of the blasian equation which makes him an authority on the subject but I am curious and want to see if it is indeed another case of self pity and/or self victimization.

Your wholesale classification of the issue into self pity and self victimization is insulting and hypocritical.
NNsukka has observed a few celebrities and some people he knows and suddenly thinks he has the entirety of Blasian experience figured out. Every individual hapa's experience is his own alone, and an individual hapa has more natural connection to monoracial asians than to other hapas, so any classification based on a few observations of a few hapas is illogical.

[kimpossible]

Will you be the e-godmother to my hapa crib midget? I'm about six months from being a father to one.

No time. I'm a little concerned #2 might already be underway. :redface:

[BeTheReds]

I would argue that your typical full blooded Asian does in fact have more authority to speak on Asian experiences than your typical "hapa".

It depends on the experience in question.... and the hapa in question...

[Chooky]

I would argue that your typical full blooded Asian does in fact have more authority to speak on Asian experiences than your typical "hapa".

How would you define "typical" and "Asian experiences"? As fractured as the AA community seems to be, I doubt very much that anyone could accurately pinpoint what the typical Asian is, let alone what their authority might be to speak on the experiences of other full-blooded Asians within the fractured and diverse Asian community.

[deez nuts]

Well to put it simply, All Hapas are Asian, but not all Asians are hapas. I guess it depends on your definition of Asian-American and how inclusive it is. I always thought Yellowworld was supposed to use the more inclusive definition.

And if you read what I was saying when I said that, it was that Crystal Clear is more of an authority on being Crystal Clear than NNsukka is.


Furthermore, I haven't heard that complaint in quite a while. Certianly "all us hapas" aren't complaining about that. Usually when a full blooded asian uses that arguement it's for one of two reasons.
1) He can't defeat an argument presented by a hapa.
2) She needs to prove to herself that she's more Asian than a hapa because she is insecure about it.

"All" might've been an overstatement on my part. But, it has been a point of contention or at the very least hapa sob (for a lack of a better term) story of not being Asian enough because he/she is only half Asian since I remember being on YW. Take you for example: you were pretty bitter and had quite a few stories of exclusion from Asian Americans when you first joined.

It might've not happened in awhile but it is the more vivid memory I have in terms of exclusion and not being "Asian" or "Asian American" enough being a recurring theme when it comes to the hapa experience from members here since I've joined YW. I however don't really pay attention to the hapa forum so my memory might be off if not the numbers being exaggerated.


Your wholesale classification of the issue into self pity and self victimization is insulting and hypocritical.
NNsukka has observed a few celebrities and some people he knows and suddenly thinks he has the entirety of Blasian experience figured out. Every individual hapa's experience is his own alone, and an individual hapa has more natural connection to monoracial asians than to other hapas, so any classification based on a few observations of a few hapas is illogical.

Like I said, I don't really care about some know it all black dude imposing his will on the blasian experience because he fits one half of the blasian equation or the whole hapa/blasian/mixed Asian experience as a whole. I just thought the logic was skewed but Kim and you have clarified it for me.

No time. I'm a little concerned #2 might already be underway. :redface:

Congratulations might be in order?

It's ok. I'm pretty much for and made it clear my stance is terminating the pregnancy. But, she does come from good stock, has a very good educational background as a MD and a good family background and the possibility of it being a boy makes my stance somewhat flexible.

[Sunflare]

I would argue that your typical full blooded Asian does in fact have more authority to speak on Asian experiences than your typical "hapa".It depends on the experience in question.... and the hapa in question...

I think the both of you share good points.

I would say that the Asian has more authority overall to speak on Asian experiences as LaiSteve66 has mentioned. Many hapas were not exposed to the elements that make up the true APA experience. Many hapas cannot speak the language their Asian parent spoke. Many never had the opportunity to experience of being fully immersed in the way of life in their country that their Asian parent came from.

So their knowledge on the APA experience is limited compared to a monoracial Asian man or woman. That has been my case.

However......

There are many hapas that did have the opportunity of being brought up in an Asian country being fully immersed into the way of living, the language, the culture. Even their way of thinking, which shares the same parallels as a monoracial Asian.

So even as for the most part, as monoracial Asians have the authority over a hapa overall to speak in authority --- There are exceptions to that, I'm sure.

So I think BeTheReds point is equally as valid as LaiSteve66 in my opinion. It depends on the experience in question.... and the hapa in question....

CC is Asian via paternal heritage. He carries his father's name which is his grandfather's name. As a male it would be natural for him to look to the males he's most closely descended from. What kind of self-hate would you have to inflict to carry your father's name and deny it? You all may feel differently from this but I suspect CC feels somewhat like this.

We can't help what we are, folks.

That's pretty much exactly how I feel. I refuse to fall into a pattern of self hate and deny the fact that I have an Asian heritage. I am Chinese in name and it would be perfectly natural for me to want to identify more with my Chinese father. Males in general would identify with their fathers, not their mothers, anyway.

You may be surprised at the kind of deeply insulting comments I've received from others over my aspirations of recapturing that heritage that I never learned until now. Afro-Americans, Anglo-Americans and even other Asian-Americans.


[The] issue into self pity and self victimization is insulting and hypocritical.
.........................
Every individual hapa's experience is his own alone, and an individual hapa has more natural connection to monoracial asians than to other hapas, so any classification based on a few observations of a few hapas is illogical.

I find this kind of generalized thinking equally as insulting. As insulting as the lame played out insults and counterattacks that many people come up with such as the "Angry AMs who whine bitch and complain about IR issues because of their poor dating lives" -or- the infamous "The complaint or assumption that all AFs are whitewashed SOWs who kowtow to whitey." argument as a degrading insult.

In all these cases, concerning the Hapa, concerning the AM and concerning the AF do not understand their experiences and feelings from those experiences that leads up to these legitimate concerns that they may express online.

All of these kind of generalized assumptions expressed from people in general stems from a combination of prejudice or ignorance. Many times however, it is out of a innocent lack of understanding as to the Hapa experience.

Many times people say things that are disagreeable to me concerning why I think they way I do, but with clarification and careful explanation, they eventually get the point.

[BeTheReds]

"All" might've been an overstatement on my part. But, it has been a point of contention or at the very least hapa sob (for a lack of a better term) story of not being Asian enough because he/she is only half Asian since I remember being on YW. Take you for example: you were pretty bitter and had quite a few stories of exclusion from Asian Americans when you first joined.


I don't see what you are getting at. The feeling of exclusion isn't because the hapa doesn't think he/she is Asian enough, it's because he/she percieves that this is why other Asians aren't readily accepting. Furthermore the topic we are discussing at this point is whether hapas have a right to stake a claim on the Asian-American experience(s). Simply because some Asians feel the need to exclude hapas doesn't mean that the hapa doesn't go through any kind of Asian-American experience.


It might've not happened in awhile but it is the more vivid memory I have in terms of exclusion and not being "Asian" or "Asian American" enough being a recurring theme when it comes to the hapa experience from members here since I've joined YW. I however don't really pay attention to the hapa forum so my memory might be off if not the numbers being exaggerated.


Well if you were talking about me, then my sob story was never about not being Asian enough... it was that a lot of Asian American Activists would say so whenever I disagreed with them on anything.

[deez nuts]

I don't see what you are getting at. The feeling of exclusion isn't because the hapa doesn't think he/she is Asian enough, it's because he/she percieves that this is why other Asians aren't readily accepting. Furthermore the topic we are discussing at this point is whether hapas have a right to stake a claim on the Asian-American experience(s). Simply because some Asians feel the need to exclude hapas doesn't mean that the hapa doesn't go through any kind of Asian-American experience.

In a nutshell my point was that it was just funny to me that in an effort and desire to be inclusive there's also an element of being exclusive.

Well if you were talking about me, then my sob story was never about not being Asian enough... it was that a lot of Asian American Activists would say so whenever I disagreed with them on anything.

Gotcha

[BeTheReds]

I think the both of you share good points.

I would say that the Asian has more authority overall to speak on Asian experiences as LaiSteve66 has mentioned. Many hapas were not exposed to the elements that make up the true APA experience. Many hapas cannot speak the language their Asian parent spoke. Many never had the opportunity to experience of being fully immersed in the way of life in their country that their Asian parent came from.


There are plenty of full blooded Asian-Americans who fit the above description, yet they are unquestionably Asian-American and have authority to speak on Asian-American experience.

So their knowledge on the APA experience is limited compared to a monoracial Asian man or woman. That has been my case.


Asian-American experience is the experience that Asian-Americans have in America. Knowledge of Asian languages and history, and even living in a total immersion environment can be done by anyone, even non-Asians. The APA experience isn't about that.


However......

There are many hapas that did have the opportunity of being brought up in an Asian country being fully immersed into the way of living, the language, the culture. Even their way of thinking, which shares the same parallels as a monoracial Asian.


That's not related to being Asian-American, see above. There are plenty of monoracial Asian-Americans who don't have the above experience.


So even as for the most part, as monoracial Asians have the authority over a hapa overall to speak in authority --- There are exceptions to that, I'm sure.


Undeniably. Hapas will never know what it is like to have two Asian parents... for example.

There are a host of other things, depending on the hapa, that he probably won't be able to relate to in the same manner. I don't think anyone is arguing that. However, in the sense of the Asian-American community, is it indeed strengthened by excluding hapas? Rhetorical question, but if that exclusion is a blanket one, then no, the community is weakened. As far as Asian-American activism goes, many hapas can contribute, and some are capable of leading. Blanket exclusion isn't helpful, and embracing celebrities while shunning regular joes is just... well fucked up.



That's pretty much exactly how I feel. I refuse to fall into a pattern of self hate and deny the fact that I have an Asian heritage. I am Chinese in name and it would be perfectly natural for me to want to identify more with my Chinese father. Males in general would identify with their fathers, not their mothers, anyway.


Can't say that's really true.. Males don't tend to identify with their fathers more. In fact mothers have way more influence on children in my opinion. Furthermore I don't really think it is an issue of self hate if a blasian identifies as Black. There's nothing wrong with leaning to one side or the other.





All of these kind of generalized assumptions expressed from people in general stems from a combination of prejudice or ignorance. Many times however, it is out of a innocent lack of understanding as to the Hapa experience.


Nitpicky, but there is no "THE hapa experience". It's something individual. I know u know so I won't go into the entire diatribe again.

In a nutshell my point was that it was just funny to me that in an effort and desire to be inclusive there's also an element of being exclusive.


I see. Yes it is a double standard. Sometimes though it makes sense that there is a double standard.

As a hapa, I don't want to be exclusive at all, the reality is that if you're not a hapa, you don't have any idea, not even your own personal experience to draw upon, what it is like to go through as a hapa.

You could turn around and say the same about hapas not having any idea of what it is like to be Asian, but then we go back to what the definition of Asian is in the first place. Which means we'd be talking in circles.

For the purposes of YW and why we need this forum though, Hapas are Asian, but not all Asians are hapas.

[kimpossible]

I wouldn't be so sure that males uniformly identify mainly with their mother and hardly with their father. The bond is different. I can't model maleness for him. While living with nothing but males is slowly degrading any civilized traits and it's fast becoming like Jane Goodall amongst penis-adjusting, boob-obsessed gorillas, I'm surprised with how much our son is attached to the male members of his family. His bond with me is stronger but his model of identity is emerging separate from the mother-son bond.

I realize my previous stance was quite arrogant. I felt very strongly and advocated that neither my husband nor my father in-law could nurture his identity properly because I was a hapa and therefore my son was a hapa. Scrapped those plans as soon as I realized how strongly he identified and bonded with the men. Now I'm more hands off. He's wired to hang inter-generationally with Chinese guys. I'm still mom and will always be but I had to rewrite nurturing his identity which meant realizing that I wasn't the full blueprint I thought I would be.

[Sunflare]

There are plenty of full blooded Asian-Americans who fit the above description, yet they are unquestionably Asian-American and have authority to speak on Asian-American experience.

I *was* talking about Asian Americans. I wasn't specific but that was what I meant.

That's not related to being Asian-American, see above. There are plenty of monoracial Asian-Americans who don't have the above experience.
...........
Asian-American experience is the experience that Asian-Americans have in America. Knowledge of Asian languages and history, and even living in a total immersion environment can be done by anyone, even non-Asians. The APA experience isn't about that.


Again, I should had been more specific. I was speaking about American born hapas and APAs. Let me reiterate my stance . . . .

I think the fact that some hapas can indeed speak in authority on the APA experience. Simply because of the fact that there are some hapas who are American born who also had exposure to living in Asian countries. They therefore have a deep understanding of the culture that makes their Asian heritage and can speak on APA issues with knowledge and deep conviction.

They also have the element of knowing how it is like living as an American. So the experiences combined can give them the ability to speak on certain APA issues with accuracy.

You as a hapa yourself, are one of them as a example. You stated that you lived in Korea and other Asian countries (Japan was it?) and was exposed to the way of life there. So therefore you can speak, to a extent, for other APAs if you want to.

Myself on the other hand don't have as much authority to speak for other APAs because I don't have that same experience. I never had the opportunity to live in other Asian countries and so I cannot speak in full authority for all APAs. For the most part, I can only express my knowledge and thoughts on the APA experience from other monoracial APAs and try to relate that the best way I can to my own experience as a Hapa.

Again, as you said yourself, no hapa can speak for all hapas in authority, the hapa can only speak for himself alone beacause hapas generally have no collective experience.

But perhaps there is a fundemental fact that you are trying to say that I am missing here. Please clarify further on this, perhaps your reponse may increase my understanding on this subject.

Undeniably. Hapas will never know what it is like to have two Asian parents... for example.

There are a host of other things, depending on the hapa, that he probably won't be able to relate to in the same manner. I don't think anyone is arguing that. However, in the sense of the Asian-American community, is it indeed strengthened by excluding hapas? Rhetorical question, but if that exclusion is a blanket one, then no, the community is weakened. As far as Asian-American activism goes, many hapas can contribute, and some are capable of leading. Blanket exclusion isn't helpful, and embracing celebrities while shunning regular joes is just... well fucked up.

Well stated. I agree.

Can't say that's really true.. Males don't tend to identify with their fathers more. In fact mothers have way more influence on children in my opinion.

I wouldn't be so sure that males uniformly identify mainly with their mother and hardly with their father. The bond is different. I can't model maleness for him.
............
I felt very strongly and advocated that neither my husband nor my father in-law could nurture his identity properly because I was a hapa and therefore my son was a hapa. Scrapped those plans as soon as I realized how strongly he identified and bonded with the men. Now I'm more hands off. He's wired to hang inter-generationally with Chinese guys.


Reflecting on both above posts:

Can't speak from experience because I'm not a parent, nor did I have the opportunity to really gow up with my biological Chinese father as a youngblood:

I think the fact that many sons may have the tendency to bond with their mothers perhaps because of enviormental factors. Because of the fact that mothers have more time to devote to their children then fathers do. Then we have cases where some hapas are brought up in a single parent household.

For the most part, I grew up with my own mother and my stepfather who was Afro American and not Chinese, but I can relate to my Chinese father more, strange enough. We think and act the same way.

Well maybe thats due to genetics. Behaviorial traits can be inherited, it's been a scientifically proven fact for years.

However I cannot deny the fact that the bond between a mother and son can be strong. Unbreakable in some cases. With few exceptions. Like me. I can't relate to my non Pan Asian mother at all on identity issues and on many other issues in general.

But I still respect my mother very much so. But it's more out of moral principles that I maintain a close relationship with her, not out of a bond or strong emotional attachment.

Off topic but to prove a point about my personality: I'm sure that may be different with me in terms of bonding if I was to finally get married to the woman that I love. *Then* I would definitely feel a strong emotional bond to her. And if I had kids, I will have a strong emotional bond to them too. I I'm truly the romantic type and all about serious relationships. I'll practically give my life if my wife and children was to be in danger if I had to.

Never mind, that's another story.

Furthermore I don't really think it is an issue of self hate if a blasian identifies as Black. There's nothing wrong with leaning to one side or the other.

This is more of a matter of opinion and perspective. I'll state my thoughts in response to this. . . .

I disagree. Essentially if a Afro American chooses to identify himself as Black. Or if a Eurasian chooses strictly to identify himself as white, they are in either cases shunning their Asian heritage. I don't particularly like that.

I hate to post on this bad experience in my dating life *again* , but I'll say it anyway to prove a point:

I know this self hate from a hapa is possible because I dated a native Japanese Hapa, not American born, who hated her own Japanese people. It was so bad that she practically refused to even speak Japanese (her own language !!???!!!) or associate with other Japanese. Yet if a person would look at her appearance, she clearly looks Japanese and a very, very beautiful Japanese woman at that. I never even knew she was really a Hapa until later on in our relationship.

Now if she was to embrace both parts of her heritage then it would make sense. Then it would'nt be self hate.

Now, back to the issue on blasians, there are indeed many blasians I have also met that also totally denies that they have Asian blood in them and will not associate with other APAs.

I have no quams at all about blasians who choose to identify themselves more as black, or hapas who identify themselves more as white. But there are some mixed Asians who goes to extremes.

So hapas who manifest self hate is possible. It really happens. And it is very disagreeable to me. There are many monoracial persons who manifest self hate too, we all know that, so too is the case with some hapas, as well, from my limited knowledge from the few hapas I was close too.

I'm just being perfectly honest and not trying to conjure up misleading theories for the sake of arguement. I seen this with my own two eyes from personal face to face interaction from other hapas and blasians away from the internet.

Nitpicky, but there is no "THE hapa experience". It's something individual. I know u know so I won't go into the entire diatribe again.

No you're not being overly critical. I think your emphasis on this segment of my post is necessary.

I didn't intend to use the expression 'hapa experience' to convey the idea that there is a 'hapa culture' aside from what is there on the internet. You know that. I used that expression because of a lack of a better term.

Sometimes I have a problem expressing my thoughts and come off misunderstood by others.

[LaiSteve66]

How would you define "typical" and "Asian experiences"?

Since our society (American) has arbitrary classifications based on skin color coupled with the inability of most people (if anyone) to discern between the different Asian ethnicities, then the Asian-American interaction with non-Asian society would definitely constitute an "Asian experience".

If I had to give definition, I would describe an "Asian experiece" as any experience that:

1) Is likely to be experienced by any given Asian regardless of ethnicity
2) Is unlikely to be experienced by a non-Asian

Of course there is no real definition, these are just heuristics I find useful and practical.

As fractured as the AA community

"AA community" That's an interesting term. It's difficult to contrive that such as term would even exist without some sort of shared experience or common ground.

seems to be, I doubt very much that anyone could accurately pinpoint what the typical Asian is, let alone what their authority might be to speak on the experiences of other full-blooded Asians within the fractured and diverse Asian community.

When you describe the Asian community as fragmented I assume you're referring to the different ethnicities. Well you're right, Koreans or Filipinos for the most part wouldn't have much authority to speak on the experiences of Vietnamese immigrants, but that's just it, it's a "Vietnamese experience" not an "Asian experience".

[BeTheReds]

I wouldn't be so sure that males uniformly identify mainly with their mother and hardly with their father. The bond is different. I can't model maleness for him. While living with nothing but males is slowly degrading any civilized traits and it's fast becoming like Jane Goodall amongst penis-adjusting, boob-obsessed gorillas, I'm surprised with how much our son is attached to the male members of his family. His bond with me is stronger but his model of identity is emerging separate from the mother-son bond.


Point well taken. I think I worded it wrong when I said that mothers have more influence on children. I guess what I was trying to say was that usually children spend more time with their mothers than their fathers when they are young (though this is becoming less and less of a standard) and naturally the parent they spend time with will have slightly more influence as a role model for the child to emulate or reject or whatever.

Ultimately every situation is different though, so I was trying to say that it doesn't make sense to say that leaning on one side or the other in hapa identity is natural or unnatural because of one's gender and the race of the same gendered parent, because there are probably many cases of an Asian identifying male hapa with an asian mother.


I realize my previous stance was quite arrogant. I felt very strongly and advocated that neither my husband nor my father in-law could nurture his identity properly because I was a hapa and therefore my son was a hapa. Scrapped those plans as soon as I realized how strongly he identified and bonded with the men. Now I'm more hands off. He's wired to hang inter-generationally with Chinese guys. I'm still mom and will always be but I had to rewrite nurturing his identity which meant realizing that I wasn't the full blueprint I thought I would be.
I can't really talk because I don't have kids, but I see many people in Interracial relationships or who are Hapas themselves saying things like, "I will raise my children to believe that they are international people and are multicultural and accepting of both sides of their heritage..." or other things like that. We should know that often your intention for how your children should be, and what actually happens is different.

But like I said, I haven't raised any children, so you'd know more than me.

[BeTheReds]

I *was* talking about Asian Americans. I wasn't specific but that was what I meant.



Again, I should had been more specific. I was speaking about American born hapas and APAs. Let me reiterate my stance . . . .

I think the fact that some hapas can indeed speak in authority on the APA experience. Simply because of the fact that there are some hapas who are American born who also had exposure to living in Asian countries. They therefore have a deep understanding of the culture that makes their Asian heritage and can speak on APA issues with knowledge and deep conviction.


I guess what I am trying to say is that deep intimate knowledge of Asia and Asians in Asia can be aquired. Asian-American experiences don't really have much to do with that. Being well adapted to Asian situations and native culture in Asia aren't going to make someone fit in with and understand the culture and issues of Asian-Americans, because Asian-American culture is seperate from Asian culture.

They also have the element of knowing how it is like living as an American. So the experiences combined can give them the ability to speak on certain APA issues with accuracy.

I disagree. I don't think that adapting to culture in Asia can really help one relate to the average Asian-American. In fact, it is certainly possible that this could create gaps.


You as a hapa yourself, are one of them as a example. You stated that you lived in Korea and other Asian countries (Japan was it?) and was exposed to the way of life there. So therefore you can speak, to a extent, for other APAs if you want to.

I live in Korea now, and I used to live in Japan... yes..
These experiences have only helped me to interact with and identify with other APAs who have spent considerable time in Asia as someone who isn't a complete outsider, yet not totally native either. Most AAs however (especially 2+ gens) aren't in that category.

Myself on the other hand don't have as much authority to speak for other APAs because I don't have that same experience.

My point is that neither have a lot of APAs. There's something different about APAs and Asians.

I never had the opportunity to live in other Asian countries and so I cannot speak in full authority for all APAs. For the most part, I can only express my knowledge and thoughts on the APA experience from other monoracial APAs and try to relate that the best way I can to my own experience as a Hapa.


Fair enough, in many cases the experience is congruent. In many, it is not. Like we agreed before, it depends on the issue in question.

Again, as you said yourself, no hapa can speak for all hapas in authority, the hapa can only speak for himself alone beacause hapas generally have no collective experience.
yes
But perhaps there is a fundemental fact that you are trying to say that I am missing here. Please clarify further on this, perhaps your reponse may increase my understanding on this subject.


I don't have all the answers, but to spell it out easily, experience in Asia itself might help you to better understand and relate to fobs (for lack of a better term), but it's not going to help you understand and relate to 2+ gens and the Asian-American culture that is developing (or has developed). Is this culture based on looks? Is it based on the discrimination or inclusion one recieves in the US for looking a certain way? It is based on the experience of having immigrant parents and growing up in the US while confronting negative stereotypes portrayed by the media? It could be based on all, some, some that I have not mentioned or things I haven't even thought of. It would be a challenge for the most die-hard Asian-American activist to define the Asian-American community. But that's besides the point. The point is, that living in Asia doesn't help someone to relate to Asian-Americans, only a select group of them who have done the same.


I disagree. Essentially if a Afro American chooses to identify himself as Black. Or if a Eurasian chooses strictly to identify himself as white, they are in either cases shunning their Asian heritage. I don't particularly like that.


If you don't like it for you, fine. If you criticize someone else who does that though, you're being hypocritical by being judgemental of how someone identifies, thus taking some part of the right away from that person.

It isn't self hate to not embrace something that you don't consider yourself to be a part of.


I know this self hate from a hapa is possible because I dated a native Japanese Hapa, not American born, who hated her own Japanese people. It was so bad that she practically refused to even speak Japanese (her own language !!???!!!) or associate with other Japanese. Yet if a person would look at her appearance, she clearly looks Japanese and a very, very beautiful Japanese woman at that. I never even knew she was really a Hapa until later on in our relationship.


Listen to yourself. You're judging her for how you think she should be. Let her decide for herself, just as you wish others to let you decide for yourself. It might be a long drawn out process, with rapid changes and identity crisises. You know that.


Now if she was to embrace both parts of her heritage then it would make sense. Then it would'nt be self hate.
It already isn't

Now, back to the issue on blasians, there are indeed many blasians I have also met that also totally denies that they have Asian blood in them and will not associate with other APAs.

I have no quams at all about blasians who choose to identify themselves more as black, or eurasians who identify themselves more as white. But there are some mixed Asians who goes to extremes.
Extreme by whose definition? Yours?

So hapas who manifest self hate is possible. It really happens. And it is very disagreeable to me. There are many monoracial persons who manifest self hate too, we all know that, so too is the case with some hapas, as well, from my limited knowledge from the few hapas I was close too.


It's certainly possible, but I don't think it's wrong to lean one way or the other. Just as it isn't wrong to try to embrace both.

[Chooky]

Since our society (American) has arbitrary classifications based on skin color coupled with the inability of most people (if anyone) to discern between the different Asian ethnicities, then the Asian-American interaction with non-Asian society would definitely constitute an "Asian experience".

If I had to give definition, I would describe an "Asian experiece" as any experience that:

1) Is likely to be experienced by any given Asian regardless of ethnicity
2) Is unlikely to be experienced by a non-Asian



If the Asian experience is defined as it's interactions with non-whites, that still doesn't explain why hapas in general wouldn't or couldn't share, understand or speak with authority on those experiences, unless you presume that most hapas don't look Asian.

I also disagree with your definition of what constitutes an Asian experience because, for me, what happens between me and non-white people doesn't define who I am - although it might color my actions.

[LaiSteve66]

If the Asian experience is defined as it's interactions with non-whites

That's just an example I gave of an "Asian experience" using the heuristics I use, not a definition. Furthermore, you seemed to be implying (I might of misunderstood) that there was no "Asian experience" because the AA community is diverse and fragmented and the example I gave is merely a response to that notion.

that still doesn't explain why hapas in general wouldn't or couldn't share, understand or speak with authority on those experiences,

That's not what I'm trying to argue. As a "hapa", I've had conversations with full-blooded Asians and non-Asians about certain "Asian experiences" with the confidence that I know what I'm talking about.

As BTR already pointed out, level of authority depends on the experience and "hapa" in question. However, I will concede that there are certain experiences I can't relate to and never will, like being raised by two Asian parents. And there are things "hapas" will experience that Asians won't therefore, I accept that Asians have more authority on the overall "Asian experience" and "hapas" have more authority on "hapa experiences" simply because the "overall Asian experience" is not the same as "the hapa experience". So for shared experiences, there can be equal authority but not all experiences are shared.

One more point I want to make is that it is difficult to contrive that a full-blooded Asian wouldn't function as an Asian in our society, however this isn't always the case with a "hapa". Therefore I accept that collectively, the Asians will have more authority than "hapas" do collectively. Now that doesn't mean that every Asian has more authority than every "hapa" on every issue. I think I can speak with equal authority on many of our shared experiences, but I can't say the same thing for many of my fellow "hapas".

So in summary, I accept that there's more authority to speak about "Asian experiences" within the full-blooded community than within the "hapa community".

unless you presume that most hapas don't look Asian.

No.


I also disagree with your definition of what constitutes an Asian experience because, for me, what happens between me and non-white people doesn't define who I am - although it might color my actions.

It's not a "definition", it's just a set of heuristics I personally find useful and practical. It's like trying to define pornography. And even if it were a "definition", it's not meant to "define who you are".

[BeTheReds]

I wonder if anyone could accurately define Asian-American community or Asian-American culture so easily... It can't be done in a simple paragraph. That said, there is more reason for suggesting an AA culture than there is to suggest some kind of hapa culture.

Hapas are inextricably linked to Asian-Americans before they are linked to each other.

[Sunflare]

I guess what I am trying to say is that deep intimate knowledge of Asia and Asians in Asia can be aquired.
.........................
I disagree. I don't think that adapting to culture in Asia can really help one relate to the average Asian-American. In fact, it is certainly possible that this could create gaps.
.........................
I live in Korea now, and I used to live in Japan... yes..
These experiences have only helped me to interact with and identify with other APAs who have spent considerable time in Asia as someone who isn't a complete outsider, yet not totally native either. Most AAs however (especially 2+ gens) aren't in that category.
.......................
My point is that neither have a lot of APAs. There's something different about APAs and Asians.


I can defenitely relate to the fact that there are many differences between the native Asian and Asian American experience.

I can also agree with you on the fact that a hapa can aquire that intimate knowledge of the Asian experience in itself.


Asian-American culture is seperate from Asian culture.


But how can we say that the APA experience is completelty different and 'seperate' from the Asian experience as you stated? The Asian American experience stemmed from Asian culture in itself did it not? The current cultural values that is common to the APA roots cannot come out from nowhere, the APA experience has it's roots and those roots lies in Asia.

Being well adapted to Asian situations and native culture in Asia aren't going to make someone fit in with and understand the culture and issues of Asian-Americans.

I cant agree with that. How can a person understand APA issues without being able to relate to their native culture?

I don't have all the answers, but to spell it out easily, experience in Asia itself might help you to better understand and relate to fobs (for lack of a better term), but it's not going to help you understand and relate to 2+ gens and the Asian-American culture that is developing (or has developed). Is this culture based on looks? Is it based on the discrimination or inclusion one recieves in the US for looking a certain way? It is based on the experience of having immigrant parents and growing up in the US while confronting negative stereotypes portrayed by the media? It could be based on all, some, some that I have not mentioned or things I haven't even thought of. It would be a challenge for the most die-hard Asian-American activist to define the Asian-American community.

Yes. I can understand. The questions you mentioned are very daunting and complex questions for anyone to answer, even for the most educated APA civil rights activists.

But that's besides the point. The point is, that living in Asia doesn't help someone to relate to Asian-Americans, only a select group of them who have done the same.

It depends I think.

Many monoracial Asian Americans I've seen share common ground . . . their cultural and moral values, their way of thinking, the language that they speak.

For a hapa who desires to identify with APAs better but never had the exposure to the APA experience will have to compensate for that by exploring the culture. That may mean learning their language, visiting the country from wich their Asian parent descended from and so forth.

Many hapas never had the opportunity to learn about their own heritage from their parents. Their parents might have decided to not teach them the culture or the language in the hopes that they will assimulate to American culture better.

So that puts some hapas at a disadvantage, and now they have to fight twice as hard and sometimes take what some people may erroneously view as drastic measures to recapture their heritage.



If you don't like it for you, fine. If you criticize someone else who does that though, you're being hypocritical by being judgemental of how someone identifies, thus taking some part of the right away from that person.
....................
It isn't self hate to not embrace something that you don't consider yourself to be a part of.



I see why you are saying this. It's due to a misunderstanding.

This is what I am saying:

It is fundamentaly the persons right for a hapa to identify oneself according to that individual's wishes. Whether that person wants identify oneself as black, white or asian is their desision.

But there are some hapas that go to the extreme. How? By harboring resentment and racist hatred for their own part of the dual heritage that they choose NOT to identify with.

That's self hate.

I know this self hate from a hapa is possible because I dated a native Japanese Hapa, not American born, who hated her own Japanese people. It was so bad that she practically refused to even speak Japanese (her own language !!???!!!) or associate with other Japanese. Yet if a person would look at her appearance, she clearly looks Japanese and a very, very beautiful Japanese woman at that. I never even knew she was really a Hapa until later on in our relationship. Listen to yourself. You're judging her for how you think she should be. Let her decide for herself, just as you wish others to let you decide for yourself. It might be a long drawn out process, with rapid changes and identity crisises. You know that.

I have to come off strong and assertive on this statement. Take this as constructive critisizm:

How can you sum up the whole scenerio of my former relationship with this Japanese hapa if you was never there to see what went on in our intimate relationship we one had?

How can you assume that she did'nt have problems with self hate if never met this girl and spoke to her?

I can appreciate the fact that she practically went through a culture shock when she came to this country from Japan a few years ago. I can understand that she is going through an identity crisis because she is fighting to recapture her Anglo-European heritage. I loved her nethertheless for who she was. I supported her on her desision 100%, and so very rarely did I bring up conversations about identity because I did not want to dicourage her from identifying herself more as a European of South American descent, rather than Asian. I understood how she felt emotionally about her identity issue she had.

But what you are not understanding is that she had really bad issues with people of other races. Again. She hated Japanese, even though she is Japanese. She refused to speak Japanese to anyone else who was Japanese. How can we say that is not self hate ?

She had a very highly prejuduced view about Chinese, viewing them as the scum of the earth. And she was particular about Afro-Americans.

Did you know she had issues about Koreans too? So it's not just self hate, It's hate towards persons of other Asians in general even, let alone Afro-Americans . . . .

No I don't think I am judging her because of how she wants to identify herself. It's her choice. I loved her anyway for who she was as a person . . . .

I am simply being honest about how she began to manifest this sense of racism against other people of color. Particularly Asians. And yet she is part Asian.

So how am I am judging her? She's judgemental against other people of color herself !!! Including persons of Chinese descent which I did not like because *I am part Chinese*.

And so you, yes you yourself, BeTheReds, are'nt you being judgemental and hypocritical yourself then ? And judging her for that matter?

And basing your accusations against me in particular, on assumptions and not on facts? You never dated this girl to know what she is like or what she went through.

*I did*.

Again as you stated:

So hapas who manifest self hate is possible. It really happens. And it is very disagreeable to me. There are many monoracial persons who manifest self hate too, we all know that, so too is the case with some hapas, as well, from my limited knowledge from the few hapas I was close too.It's certainly possible,

I'm sure you understand that I am not implying that you are a hypocrite even as you are suggesting that I am a hypocrite (Or Deez Nuts for that matter with his involvement in this discussion.)

I understand people ( such as yourself ) simply makes mistakes in understanding other people's experiences sometimes. And that some have very strong views on things. And so I will take that with a grain of salt and not take your critisizms personally. I hope you can understand that.

Please discuss.

[Sunflare]

Hapas are inextricably linked to Asian-Americans before they are linked to each other.

Unfortunate but true. I agree.

[LaiSteve66]

I wonder if anyone could accurately define Asian-American community or Asian-American culture so easily... It can't be done in a simple paragraph.

That's why I argue for a set of heuristics. In the absence of a concrete, universally accepted definition, we create heuristics to help us gauge what this things are. The only other option is to deny that they even exist.

That said, there is more reason for suggesting an AA culture than there is to suggest some kind of hapa culture.

I heard that there actually is a "hapa" culture in Singapore and perhaps Hawaii.

[Sunflare]

I heard that there actually is a "hapa" culture in Singapore and perhaps Hawaii.

Really ? Tell me more about it plz !!! =)

I thought about moving to Hawaii, once I am out of school . . . .

[BeTheReds]

Hawaii and Singapore, sure.. there's also probably plenty of hapas with connectivity in both places. It makes logical sense that there would be when connectivity is present.

[LaiSteve66]

Really ? Tell me more about it plz !!! =)


Sorry, I don't know much about it (it if actually is real).

I thought about moving to Hawaii, once I am out of school . . . .

That place has an outrageous cost of living.

[Craig]

That place has an outrageous cost of living.Cheaper than some other places in the USA, like California. However, it doesn't have the abundance of high paying jobs. I had a coworker that was trying to transfer to Houston, but couldn't get a job, but got a transfer to Hawaii to lower his cost of living.

[Sunflare]

That place has an outrageous cost of living.
Cheaper than some other places in the USA, like California. However, it doesn't have the abundance of high paying jobs. I had a coworker that was trying to transfer to Houston, but couldn't get a job, but got a transfer to Hawaii to lower his cost of living.

I wonder if that applies to jobs in the medical field ? I better do some research and check then.

I was thinking about moving to California too. But this is a long range plan, something I don't think I can pull off for years to come. I'll have to get settled in my career first before I can finance the move.

Hawaii and Singapore, sure.. there's also probably plenty of hapas with connectivity in both places. It makes logical sense that there would be when connectivity is present.

Man. That's where I need to *be* then. Where the action is. Yep. =)

[SunWuKong]

I heard that there actually is a "hapa" culture in Singapore

are you maybe referring to the Peranakan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peranakan) culture? if so, i believe it originated along the Malacca Straits (which includes Singapore).

there is also a very very small community of people called the Macanese in Macau.