MMA star being a racist jackass?

[boondock]

i just saw this old video of quinton "rampage" jackson on youtube during his time in Japan during his Pride fighting days. seriously, this stuff if offensive. i find a lot of that stuff racist, and though i might be called over sensitive, you can't deny he acts like a total ass. this coming from a guy that use to be a fan of him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F47wLqp-E-o

[nameless]

Not racist imo. Just obnoxious American behavior in a foreign country and taking advantage of the fact that Japanese are too polite. I think that 'big tits' guy knew what he was saying lol

[TB4000]

Well, I would expect it from him, as his whole shtick is acting like a posturing fool. The fans expect that from them.

[mr. x]

Damn, did they touch him as a kid? I know the japanese did have this one black guy who was either a wrestler or a boxer eat a banana (and you know where that ones going) and blackface imagery isn't considered inappropriate but damn I couldn't watch more than 10 seconds of that

[popculturepooka]

Damn, did they touch him as a kid? I know the japanese did have this one black guy who was either a wrestler or a boxer eat a banana (and you know where that ones going) and blackface imagery isn't considered inappropriate but damn I couldn't watch more than 10 seconds of that

Bob Sapp?
Bobby Ologun?

[haplesshobo]

I think Jackson married an Asian woman, and lives in Irvine.

[mr. x]

I think Jackson married an Asian woman, and lives in Irvine.

Guess it's totally cool then

[boondock]

I think Jackson married an Asian woman, and lives in Irvine.

sorry guy, you don't know what your talking about. rampage HAD a japanese wife who divorced him when she found out he was cheating on her. plus he's got three kids from another marriage and is from memphis. but gee according to your logic, as long as he's married to an asian woman, then he can't be racist towards asians then. brilliant

[popculturepooka]

sorry guy, you don't know what your talking about. rampage HAD a japanese wife who divorced him when she found out he was cheating on her. plus he's got three kids from another marriage and is from memphis. but gee according to your logic, as long as he's married to an asian woman, then he can't be racist towards asians then. brilliant

learn2appreciatesarcasm.

kthxbye.

[Thaddaeus]

sorry guy, you don't know what your talking about. rampage HAD a japanese wife who divorced him when she found out he was cheating on her. plus he's got three kids from another marriage and is from memphis. but gee according to your logic, as long as he's married to an asian woman, then he can't be racist towards asians then. brilliant

having an asian wife certainly doesn't (in and of itself) make him racist, and indeed makes it quite likely that he isn't. the video doesn't really show that rampage is racist either. it shows, at the very least, that he's not funny at all, and at the very worst, that he's a bad sportsman. you can't construe everything as "racist" just because it makes you feel bad.

[nameless]

having an asian wife certainly doesn't (in and of itself) make him racist

true.

and indeed makes it quite likely that he isn't.

not true.

[haplesshobo]

having an asian wife certainly doesn't (in and of itself) make him racist, and indeed makes it quite likely that he isn't.

Dude, I was being sarcastic.

[deez nuts]

Him tossing around that Japanese chick, spanking her ass and sitting on her face and farting was hilarious. And on top of that, she was giggling like a Japanese school girl. I wonder if she boom boom'd with soul brutha cuz the whole thing looked like foreplay or was he too boo-coo for her?

[proazn]

sorry guy, you don't know what your talking about. rampage HAD a japanese wife who divorced him when she found out he was cheating on her. plus he's got three kids from another marriage and is from memphis. but gee according to your logic, as long as he's married to an asian woman, then he can't be racist towards asians then. brilliant

hey, he's just a typical black guy - got lots of kids but doesn't take care of any of them. makes fun of asian guys but will bang asian girls. --- nothing to be shocked about.

[Stackmo]

MMA is a mostly white demographic. Speaking of which Dana White, president of the UFC had a a racist slur to sling very recently:

On Couture and Fedor Emelianenko:

Randy Couture, right now is the best fighter in the world. Fedor is a farce. He [just fought] "Long Duck Dong"...we'll just call him that. It's a joke. This guy hasn't beat anybody since 2005 and you know who was the last guy he beat in 2005? Mirko Cro Cop who just lost to two guy's that nobody's...you know.

For the record the Japanese wife of Jackson divorced Jackson because he apparently cheated on her despite the fact they had a child together.

[BillBlythe]

i think he sees things very racially. he's not really vindictive or anything. he's always make racial jokes about blacks, whites, and i guess Asians. personally he's not the kind of guy anyone should be labelling 'racist'.

[Stackmo]

I don't follow you.

Let's say Dana White was talking about Rampage Jackson and said 'Hey there goes ' sambo'

or Roger Herta and he said hey there goes Paco.

Because Hong is Korean this gets the not racist tag? If it weren't for Hong's identity as a Korean where would the reference for 'Long duk dong' be at all? White said it precisely because Hong is an easily identifiable Asian and no other reason. The remark wouldn't even make sense in any other context. I've never seen a white person mocked by being called 'Long Duk Dong' ever. THat'd be like making fun a stick thin anorexic by calling them fatty - no context.

And how about white's remark abour 'crazy russians'? It seems like White has some issue with other ethnic groups. Which is fine and well everyone has a right to their opinion I suppose but white should be smart enough to manage his presentation to the public better.

[BillBlythe]

Are we talking about Rampage or White? I wouldn't defend White if he sent Tim Sylvia after me.

[Stackmo]

White, sorry replied to the wrong one.

[Seraphfire]

i think he sees things very racially. he's not really vindictive or anything. he's always make racial jokes about blacks, whites, and i guess Asians. personally he's not the kind of guy anyone should be labelling 'racist'.
So if you make racist jokes without vindictiveness that isn't racist.

Seriously, you should go over to Stormfront, your logic would have quite a following over there.

[Stackmo]

It is racist though perhaps not with vindictiveness. It's just basic ignorance.

The Dana White one is really the more racist one and he represents UFC as chief figurehead.

[nameless]

White's comment is definitely a racially disparaging remark. Still, it's difficult to know if he's being vindictive given most Americans' ignorance concerning racist 'nicknames' (btw I think it's referring to 2005 fight w/ Tsuyoshi Kohsaka, not Hong?)

Hence the whole 'crazy Russian' comment too. Seriously, it's like an American tradition to insult others. If there was a white fighter from the south, he'd probably call him a redneck.

[BillBlythe]

^nah, it was about Hong Man who was Fedor's last opponent.

[Stackmo]

White's comment is definitely a racially disparaging remark. Still, it's difficult to know if he's being vindictive given most Americans' ignorance concerning racist 'nicknames' (btw I think it's referring to 2005 fight w/ Tsuyoshi Kohsaka, not Hong?)

Hence the whole 'crazy Russian' comment too. Seriously, it's like an American tradition to insult others. If there was a white fighter from the south, he'd probably call him a redneck.



It's a reference to the fight Fedor fought on New year's Eve against Choi.

I sincerely doubt White would know TK from Dr.Seuss.

The issue is centered on 2 things imo: White is basically a casual racist not a cross burning hood face vehement racist and he's not an educated businessman. White is essentially a guy that got as far as one can possibly get on the strength of hustling and word play. He failed as a boxercise trainer and a boxing promoter. As a result White has bitterness to spare but not the business acumen to know better than to do that. He's not the first or last caucasian in the public eye to throw around basically racist overtoned rhetoric around casually but the difference is some minor chastisement and guidance puts most such offenders off that path.

In White's case he doesn't care and it won't matter since the demographic for UFC is mostly white males aged 17-33 who are either okay with or don't care at all. And to be frank UFC is culling from the WWE fan base which is also mostly white and also doesn't care much about 21st century black face performing or backwards commentary.

Fight sport is a crazy thing really though since in it's earliest sanctioned roots it was based on 'whites versus blacks' and a drive to prove racial superiority among caucasians in fight sport. A digression ehre but most sports are like that.

[nameless]

It's a reference to the fight Fedor fought on New year's Eve against Choi.

You're right, my bad. I see what the quote means now...

The issue is centered on 2 things imo: White is basically a casual racist not a cross burning hood face vehement racist and he's not an educated businessman. White is essentially a guy that got as far as one can possibly get on the strength of hustling and word play. He failed as a boxercise trainer and a boxing promoter.

Yeah, casual racist is probably the description I'd use for White and the typical UFC American fan.

And the failed boxercise trainer thing is funny, but makes sense. I've seen his interviews and wondered how this guy was lucky enough to get where he is. Tangent attack: Joe Rogan is also a lucky bastard in the same vein.

[Stackmo]

They basically are both kind of submoronic when it comes to fight sports. Hearing Rogan's play-by play is actually so bad that I turn the volume down on them. In term's of White and UFC, this latest outburst actually irritates me enough that I cannot for see myself paying for another PPV ever.

Am I being an over sensitive wuss? I don't consider myself easily ass hurt by racist overtures. Like most of you all invariably you're going to encounter it living in a predominantly caucasian society. I come to expect it. But for a figure head who wants to grow his brand in MMA (ironically Asians world wide are it's biggest audience) he sure is quick to fire some random non-funny invective about Choi.

I am probably am being a big wuss but I cannot see supporting an org that condones that sort of behavior and has no issue with it. So I'll internet rob their future events if I have any curiosity in it.

[deez nuts]

They basically are both kind of submoronic when it comes to fight sports. Hearing Rogan's play-by play is actually so bad that I turn the volume down on them. In term's of White and UFC, this latest outburst actually irritates me enough that I cannot for see myself paying for another PPV ever.


I enjoy watching the big name bouts or reading about it afterwards for free. But, I will never pay what is it $40-50 to watch a PPV event of sweaty men mounting, straddling one another or watching a guy on the bottom wrap his legs around the guy who is on top of him as the man on top attempts to get up and ends up on his knees between another man's legs in a caged ring.

[Stackmo]

Yeah,it's a new sport and the talent pool is some what shallow compared to boxing. And people there fore suck more at their own sport. It'll improve in the future if White doesn't successfully undermine it's future by talking more stupidity.

[Chester]

Yeah,it's a new sport and the talent pool is some what shallow compared to boxing.
Globally, it's deep. It's just shallow in the UFC. But that has changed and will continue to change since Pride FC couldn't keep their shit together.
And people there fore suck more at their own sport.
Hunh?

On the original post's topic: I don't see Rampage as a racist, just as a really juvenile character...and my favorite MMA fighter so long as Fedor continues to fight nothing but pituitary freakshows.

On the offshoot topic: Dana White may or may not be a "racist," but before he is or is not a racist, he's fundamentally an asshole. There's no real point in making more of a distinction beyond that.

[Stackmo]

Globally, it's deep.

Globally compared to other combat sports is fairly shallow but growing steadily.

It's just shallow in the UFC. But that has changed and will continue to change since Pride FC couldn't keep their shit together.


And UFC bought Pride and shelved it to the tune of $63 millions dollars with no fighter contarcts, no access to the video archived (Fuji Network properties), no road in to the very lucrative Japan market. Pride is dead and the UFC is doing their best to join them.

Hunh?

Look at their striking. With a few exceptions it's mostly laughably bad.

[Chester]

Globally compared to other combat sports is fairly shallow but growing steadily.
Eh, I dunno. I think the talent pool is more than ample enough. The issue is that the talent is distributed across a bunch of different organizations that do not cross-promote. The fact that, for example, UFC is not deep in particular weight classes does not mean the entire sport of MMA is not deep at all weight classes.
Pride is dead and the UFC is doing their best to join them.
I always preferred Pride to UFC, but UFC is doing all it can to avoid Pride's fate. And all signs point to their succeeding.
Look at their striking. With a few exceptions it's mostly laughably bad.
By the standards of combat sports that are striking-only, perhaps. Boxers and kickboxers, in general, should always be superior strikers since that's the only thing they need to train. MMA fighters don't have that luxury. Apples and oranges.

[Stackmo]

Eh, I dunno. I think the talent pool is more than ample enough. The issue is that the talent is distributed across a bunch of different organizations that do not cross-promote. The fact that, for example, UFC is not deep in particular weight classes does not mean the entire sport of MMA is not deep at all weight classes.

Comparatively speaking to other combat sports they aren't. Boxing in the US alone is estimated by the Boxing Almanac to be 900,000+. Keep in mind that the tallying of state pro registrations and licenses may include some small overlap from state to state.

Muay Thai in Thailand alone has some estimated 50,000 professional participants, internationally that number can be at the least expected to be in multiples of 50,000.


I always preferred Pride to UFC, but UFC is doing all it can to avoid Pride's fate. And all signs point to their succeeding.


How? They are already at least $63 million in the hole from the Pride purchase which had no transferable rights to Fuji owned footage, no transferable fighter contracts, and no TV deal. Zuffa inherited Pride's debts and outstanding costs.

Also not the last UFC - it had the lowest gate of their past 7 events.

Add to it Dana White's poorly thought rhetoric(long duck dong, anyone?), loss of a major star in Couture and a floundering heavy weight division, multiple drug use infractions and the UFC's not looking too hot. Their little reality show has also been consistently declining in ratings. At present they draw significantly less than their all time high of 1.7 million viewers.

By the standards of combat sports that are striking-only, perhaps. Boxers and kickboxers, in general, should always be superior strikers since that's the only thing they need to train. MMA fighters don't have that luxury. Apples and oranges.

Even in pure BJJ matches most of what's in the UFC couldn't hold a candle to that and I've been live and front and center at Grappler's Quest twice and a NAGA tourney once. Believe me they are different worlds of better than the majority of what's in UFC.

They do have that luxury (assuming they are in the UFC) and notably some pure strikers have made successful conversions to MMA. It's 2 things that factor into lower MMA expertise by MMA practitioners: smaller talent pool and relative newness of the sport. I realize that is a broad paint brush not including symptomatic issues that lie beneath those root causes but I think you'll see my point.

Most world champion boxers only do a 4 hour workout and from televised accounts someone like a Sean Sherk dedicates 6-8 hours a day training.

[BillBlythe]

yeah but on injection days sean sherk only has to put in like half an hour at most.

[Stackmo]

You mean Vitamin s injection days?

[Chester]

Comparatively speaking to other combat sports they aren't.
Yeah, that's definitely true. My point is simply that, if the MMA world was structured like, say, boxing, and wasn't all about organization-exclusive promotions, each weight class would be at least five men deep, in terms of contenders that I find more than enjoyable to watch. Maybe I have lower standards than you, but, to me, I see things are fairly deep. And it's getting better and has already progressed light years beyond the early days. Both in terms of the skill level of top fighters and the number of those top fighters.
How? They are already at least $63 million in the hole from the Pride purchase
The Pride purchase seems like, no doubt, a bad deal. That alone, of course, doesn't sink UFC...
Also not the last UFC - it had the lowest gate of their past 7 events.
True, but considering how frequently they've been putting on shows, I don't find that all that problematic, necessarily. I would look at UFC prospects with an eye to longer time periods, not on a show-by-show basis.
Add to it Dana White's poorly thought rhetoric(long duck dong, anyone?), loss of a major star in Couture and a floundering heavy weight division, multiple drug use infractions and the UFC's not looking too hot. Their little reality show has also been consistently declining in ratings.
To me, this is just an issue of them not being able to sustain those all-time highs, not a sign that they're going to regress to the previous state of mainstream irrelevence MMA once suffered. Looking at the long-term picture, they've succeeded in broaching mainstream sports interest and I think the long-term trajectory of that interest is positive.

On the Couture situation...it's obviously a mess. But they'll get past it and we still don't even know what the outcome of it really will be. (And, anyway...I don't picture Couture beating Big Nog anyway, so the UFC belt belongs to the rightful champ insofar as I see things.)
Even in pure BJJ matches most of what's in the UFC couldn't hold a candle to that and I've been live and front and center at Grappler's Quest twice and a NAGA tourney once.
I'd imagine that BJJ events would feature better pure BJJ. Here's a question -- honestly curious -- how would Nogueira fare in a pure BJJ contest?
They do have that luxury (assuming they are in the UFC) and notably some pure strikers have made successful conversions to MMA.
Not without picking up considerable grappling-type skills, which would mean -- to me -- that they're no longer a "pure" striker, in terms of their skill set. Taking two illustrious K1 alums as examples: Stefan Leko didn't bother to acquire any ground skills and got beaten three times in a row in about 5 minutes total for all matches. CroCop, by contrast, has done great in MMA -- till recently -- due to some crazy-sick takedown defense and decent ground skills.
I think you'll see my point.
I see your point and if you prefer to watch pure striking sports, that's your choice. My point -- or my perception -- is that there's a lot of high-quality fighters in the MMA world that are fun to watch. And the general skill level is high enough that no single-discipline-practitioner can bounce into MMA and expect to win without expanding his skill set, whether that be striking, wrestling, BJJ, judo, or, uh, sumo.

Or to quantify things, I don't think any K1 champ could become a championship contender in the UFC (e.g. top 3 or 5 in a weight class) without expanding his game beyond striking, no matter how good his striking is.

[Stackmo]

From mmapayout.com An overview on expansion and UFC finance.Not to be left behind, the UFC launched an aggressive international expansion campaign of its own last spring. With UFC 80 emanating from Newcastle, England this Saturday and a report that the company has canceled its next planned international event, the time seems right to take stock of the effort thus far and to date the results have been mixed at best.

In Q1 and Q2 of 2007, operating costs more than doubled as a result of production expenses associated with two events held in the U.K. and an aggressive marketing campaign to establish the UFC brand in the U.K. At the time, S&P stated that it expected Zuffa "to reduce the scale of its international UFC bouts going forward, with the intent to limit potential losses generated by these events and return consolidated cash flow to a level more consistent with 2006 results."

However, following Q3 the company's credit rating was cut as Zuffa was again chided by S&P for its "material losses in international markets" with an accompanying threat of another rating cut if results do not improve.

According to sources within the industry, the company spent roughly one-to-one on marketing-to-revenue on its international events last year, which including increased production costs would make the events large loss leaders. Dave Meltzer reported in the Wrestling Observer Newsletter last year that financial officers within the company opposed the scale of the international expansion effort at the time it was implemented.

To his credit, UFC President Dana White has openly acknowledged the challenge the company has faced in its expansion efforts. "I don’t think there is anything profitable about the European market right now," White said in a recent conference call. "We’re getting our ass kicked over there." White went on to say that the television and pay-per-view markets are completely different in Europe, but the company is "stomping through this thing until we can figure out."

The latter statement is emblematic of the company's entire international expansion effort and perhaps explains a great deal of the problems they've faced. Figure it out as you go is not exactly the best business strategy. For whatever reason, the company seems to have jumped into international expansion head over heels on the assumption that the UFC brand would carry it through.

It's the same type of hubris the company showed in its purchase of Pride and its bold plans to resurrect the brand in Japan. Of course, the company was ultimately forced to abandon Japan and the Pride brand altogether. Whether that same fate awaits its European expansion effort remains to be seen. At present, the most interesting questions revolve around why the company was so eager to expand internationally, particularly in Europe, and why the 3/8 event is being moved back stateside.

No one questions the wisdom of international expansion in the long term, but the sense of urgency with which the company has pursued it has raised some eyebrows within the industry. The timing seems rushed, especially with the company still struggling to firmly establish itself in the United States, much less in North America where the company has yet to run live events in Canada or Mexico. The explanation may be as simple as hubris or perhaps there are greater motives at the heart of the initiative that are yet to be revealed.

On its face, the movement of the 3/8 event looks like a cost cutting measure. With the company facing growing pressure from its creditors to control costs, specifically by reducing the scope of its international presence, it may be that the cooler, more financially prudent, heads in the company finally prevailed over White's unbridled, some would say irresponsible, optimism. However, it is also possible that the company has secured a network television deal and the event is being moved to accommodate a live prime time television event. Time will tell.

Ultimately, the international expansion initiative is quintessential White: impetuous, ruthlessly ambitious, and visionary. Its the management philosophy and style that has delivered the company to its current destination, atop the MMA industry. Whether or not the company has outgrown that paradigm remains to be seen. What is clear is that White has a lot riding on international expansion and the outcome of the effort will loom large on his legacy and the company's financial future.

Let me edit before posting to your reply. You spent time on it so I want give a good reply for both detail and fairness that your post deserves.