Monoracial groups and mixed celebs (Tiger Woods)

[Flutterby]

Tiger Woods says he is 'Cablinasian.' As in Caucasian-black-Indian-Asian. Woods has a half-black, one-quarter American Indian, one-quarter white father and a half Thai, half-Chinese mother. "I'm just who I am," Woods told Oprah Winfrey, "whoever you see in front of you." http://www.salon.com/april97/tiger970430.html
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d112/Sundance715_/tiger_woods.jpgThis is a picture of Tiger, with wife, Elin Nordegren (from Sweeden), and baby daughter Sam (Born June 2007).

[thaite]

Yes, we know. Do you have anything to add?

[Asian_Casanova]

Can anyone explain to me why an athlete of part Black or half Black origins is claimed to be an "African American" or Black athlete (by African Americans in particular)? Tiger Woods is a major case in point. It seems like when he's mentioned in the media he's a "Black guy" ( an "African American guy" in particular - but he's got more or at least equal blood of other ethnicities).

[thaite]

What? You never heard of the One-drop rule? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-drop_rule). We live in its legacy.

This thread better turn into something about sports, because if it ain't, I'm kicking it elsewhere.

[Flutterby]

Can anyone explain to me why an athlete of part Black or half Black origins is claimed to be an "African American" or Black athlete (by African Americans in particular)? Tiger Woods is a major case in point. It seems like when he's mentioned in the media he's a "Black guy" ( an "African American guy" in particular - but he's got more or at least equal blood of other ethnicities).
According to this article Tiger Woods is ¼ African decent since his father is half black and his mother is of Asian decent.

[Flutterby]

Yes, we know. Do you have anything to add?
You say "we know". Who is the we?

[YelloFello]

I think 'we' means every one who is aware of who Tiger Woods is. We all know who Tiger Woods is.

What is the purpose of this thread? To promote race-mixing?

[YelloFello]

Not that there is anything wrong with race-mixing. But I don't believe one should promote it, just as I do not believe that one should advocate same-race only relationships.

[YelloFello]

Not that there is anything wrong with race-mixing. But I don't believe one should promote it, just as I don't believe one should advocate same-race-only relationships.

[Asian_Casanova]

What? You never heard of the One-drop rule? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-drop_rule). We live in its legacy.

This thread better turn into something about sports, because if it ain't, I'm kicking it elsewhere.

Does that mean James Watson (co discoverer of the DNA helix) should be seen as African American, somewhat ironically based upon his comments about race and IQ, considering he's 15% African based upon his genes?

Flutterby,

I didn't know that; it seems, to me anyway, claiming Tiger as an African American (or whatever) just speaks to me of some insecurity; don't get me wrong, despite not following golf, many experts are saying he's going to be the greatest gold player that ever was and probably the first billionaire sportsman and he deserves all the credit in the world for his talent, but to me he's not as impressive as other African or African American sportspeople, like for instance guys who could run sub-10 seconds for the 100 metres (now for me that's more impressive considering so few people can achieve that and the fact that no non-African athlete has done it whereas in golf different people can win the Masters and so on). Now that's a bad analogy because golf is a worldwide sport whereas athletics is mainly assocaited with the Olympics. So, why not compare with basketball; Michael Jordan, Shaq, Le Bron James are all more AA to me than Tiger Woods is.

[popculturepooka]

The rule is if you look black, you are black. Simple.

And exactly how do you BE African-American?

[kimpossible]

What is the purpose of this thread? To promote race-mixing?

There's no purpose to any of her threads. It's a white lady linking meta-data around the web to here. She's got one sort-of on topic post in Histories. That's it. So before you all tear each other up over Tiger Woods' ethnicity please rethink if it's necessary to do so.

[AngryABCGirl]

cute baby.

[Flutterby]

Not that there is anything wrong with race-mixing. But I don't believe one should promote it, just as I do not believe that one should advocate same-race only relationships.
The purpose of this thread is not to promote anything, but just state some facts. Tiger Woods doesn't like to be called African American because is one-half Asian, one-quarter black, one-eighth American Indian, and one-eighth Europeon decent.

"Woods made his remarks on 'Oprah,' when he was asked if it bothered him to be called an African-American. 'It does,' he said. 'I'm just who I am,' Woods told Oprah Winfrey, 'whoever you see in front of you.'"
http://www.salon.com/april97/tiger970430.html

What? You never heard of the One-drop rule? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-drop_rule). We live in its legacy.
This thread better turn into something about sports, because if it ain't, I'm kicking it elsewhere.
Because some long-time dead person said the On-drop rule is so doesn't really make it so. I don't agree with it. No one should deny any of their heritage and it certainly doesn't change the biological facts.

If you can move this thread to a more appropriate section here and you want to, go for it!

The rule is if you look black, you are black. Simple.
WRONG! You can't judge a book by its cover.

And, Kim -- Take a chill pill!: http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c311/Sundance715/chillpill.gif

[YelloFello]

If it is the case, then I am glad that Tiger Woods acknowledges his mixed heritage rather than only one part of it. But this interview with Oprah happened several years ago. This interview resulted in heavy criticism and pressure from some in the African-American community, so I think Tiger Woods is a little more careful these days about expressing pride in his mixed heritage.

I think you have missed the point. No one here is suggesting that Tiger Woods should only be considered black. And even though the one-drop-rule is outdated, it applies even to this day unfortunately.

It's all nice and dandy to say that Tiger Woods is 'this' and 'that'. But many in society may see him only as 'this' or 'that' but not both.

[kimpossible]

And, Kim -- Take a chill pill!: http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c311/Sundance715/chillpill.gif

I'm here as a moderator, as is thaite. If you don't like being modded by Asians on topics posted on an Asian American website you should flutter on by. You've hardly been relevant.

[Flutterby]

I'm here as a moderator, as is thaite. If you don't like being modded by Asians on topics posted on an Asian American website you should flutter on by. You've hardly been relevant.
Well, mod Kim, did I break any rules? I didn't come here to cause any trouble, but to gain a better understanding of others. My boss and his wife came from China about 35 years ago. They are Americans in every sense. One of my good friends is originally from the Philipines and her husband is from Utah and was raised Mormon. They have a very happy marriage and two adorable children.

The point I was making was that Tiger Woods does not like to have three-quarters of his ancestry be denied. I totally agree with him!
I am of mixed nationalities and my husband is even more mixed. We don't deny any part of it. We are what we are!

[kimpossible]

In your defense, I don't think you're a troll. You just don't seem to have much of a clue as to what an Asian American website is for. I look forward to you proving me wrong by posting relevant, timely and important topics to Asian Americans from here on out. When thaite asked you to add something 'we' didn't already know, he meant Asian Americans. Here.

I'm sure the Asian people in your life are lovely. But I'm addressing you.

[AngryABCGirl]

Because some long-time dead person said the On-drop rule is so doesn't really make it so. I don't agree with it. No one should deny any of their heritage and it certainly doesn't change the biological facts.

If you can move this thread to a more appropriate section here and you want to, go for it!


WRONG! You can't judge a book by its cover.


Clearly you are not Black nor understand Black issues in anyway.

[thaite]

Well, mod Kim, did I break any rules? I didn't come here to cause any trouble, but to gain a better understanding of others. My boss and his wife came from China about 35 years ago. They are Americans in every sense. One of my good friends is originally from the Philipines and her husband is from Utah and was raised Mormon. They have a very happy marriage and two adorable children.

The point I was making was that Tiger Woods does not like to have three-quarters of his ancestry be denied. I totally agree with him!
I am of mixed nationalities and my husband is even more mixed. We don't deny any part of it. We are what we are!

Well that's all fine and dandy with fluffy white clouds and rainbows, but IT STILL AIN'T ABOUT SPORTS.



:: punt ::

[Flutterby]

Well that's all fine and dandy with fluffy white clouds and rainbows, but IT STILL AIN'T ABOUT SPORTS.
:: punt ::
I agree, Thaite, this is a better place for this thread. I only first started it with Sports because of Tiger Woods being a professional golfer. :smile:

[BeTheReds]

I'm tempted to move this to arts and entertainment, but I think the topic isn't so much about Tiger himself, but more about how certain single raced groups feel about mixed celebrities defining themselves.

[BeTheReds]

On topic itself:

It seems to me that a lot of the monoracial groups (esp Asians) will be so quick to shun mixed people, but when they are celebrities, suddenly they are (insert race here) to the BONE!!!!

Case in point... Hines Ward.... meanwhile lots of mixed black/koreans in Korea get spit on.

[SunWuKong]

On topic itself:

It seems to me that a lot of the monoracial groups (esp Asians) will be so quick to shun mixed people, but when they are celebrities, suddenly they are (insert race here) to the BONE!!!!

Case in point... Hines Ward.... meanwhile lots of mixed black/koreans in Korea get spit on.

depends on which Asian society. some of them have a "thing" for mixed Asians, so people there are quick to recognise that so-and-so is good looking because he or she is mixed.

[YelloFello]

depends on which Asian society. some of them have a "thing" for mixed Asians, so people there are quick to recognise that so-and-so is good looking because he or she is mixed.

It also depends on what kind of mix. I'm guessing it is more likely that a mixed asian/black person would get spat at than a mixed white/asian person.

[BeTheReds]

Yea, true...

Well things are changing as society becomes more global, but for the most part, there seems to be this double standard for celebrities and just normal people.

[BeTheReds]

Well, mod Kim, did I break any rules? I didn't come here to cause any trouble, but to gain a better understanding of others. My boss and his wife came from China about 35 years ago. They are Americans in every sense. One of my good friends is originally from the Philipines and her husband is from Utah and was raised Mormon. They have a very happy marriage and two adorable children.

The point I was making was that Tiger Woods does not like to have three-quarters of his ancestry be denied. I totally agree with him!
I am of mixed nationalities and my husband is even more mixed. We don't deny any part of it. We are what we are!

I can't believe I missed this earlier, but... I just have to ask.. Why do you feel the need to talk to us about Asian people that you know? That's just silly.

[Asian_Casanova]

On topic itself:

It seems to me that a lot of the monoracial groups (esp Asians) will be so quick to shun mixed people, but when they are celebrities, suddenly they are (insert race here) to the BONE!!!!

Case in point... Hines Ward.... meanwhile lots of mixed black/koreans in Korea get spit on.

It might be true; but if you think about it maybe the reasons why Asians shun mixed Asian/Black relationships (which invariably happen to an Asian female and Black male) is the negative stereotype of Black guys ( hip-hop, pimping, rapper types who are quite disprectful of women via MTV).

[popculturepooka]

It might be true; but if you think about it maybe the reasons why Asians shun mixed Asian/Black relationships (which invariably happen to an Asian female and Black male) is the negative stereotype of Black guys ( hip-hop, pimping, rapper types who are quite disprectful of women via MTV).

I used to buy that...that is...until I actually came to Asia (or Japan in particular).

It just seems like many Japanese don't even want to give up their negative stereotypes of black people even when they meet some who don't fit that negative image. Because, well, that would just require energy. Energy to re-think about how they look at a whole group of people, and it's just much easier to not have re-examine their beliefs, because that would put them on the outside.

Meanwhile (I hate be THAT guy, I really do) it seems white people get WAY more leniency when it comes to these type of things.

[BeTheReds]

It might be true; but if you think about it maybe the reasons why Asians shun mixed Asian/Black relationships (which invariably happen to an Asian female and Black male) is the negative stereotype of Black guys ( hip-hop, pimping, rapper types who are quite disprectful of women via MTV).

Well they aren't so accepting of White/Asian mixes either. Maybe more accepting than Black/Asian ones, for sure, but it's not like it's something that's seen as a great thing...

[Asian_Casanova]

popculturepooka,

that's unfortunate; it seems Asian people are just as prejudiced as other people

bethereds,

that's probably true; however isn't it the case that asian parents would want their daughters to marry a white guy if she doesn't choose asian or a particular asian? if you look at it from their perspective i could probably see where they are coming from; would you want your daughter to marry a fundamentalist muslim who'd probably enlsave and beat their daughter? in other words they're more used to something and therefore it seems less threatening.

[BeTheReds]

popculturepooka,

that's unfortunate; it seems Asian people are just as prejudiced as other people

bethereds,

that's probably true; however isn't it the case that asian parents would want their daughters to marry a white guy if she doesn't choose asian or a particular asian? if you look at it from their perspective i could probably see where they are coming from; would you want your daughter to marry a fundamentalist muslim who'd probably enlsave and beat their daughter? in other words they're more used to something and therefore it seems less threatening.

Again, I don't think we should equate certain preceptions about interracial dating and marriage with reactions to mixed people. They should be two seperate issues.

Furthermore, your example is ridiculous and extreme. Extreme because no woman in her right mind would marry a fundamentalist muslim unless she herself was a fundamentalist muslim, and thre aren't many of those in East Asia...

Ridiculous because most fundamentalist Muslims wouldn't marry a non-muslim.

Even with all that, why should this negative attitude towards interracial dating be projected upon children who didn't choose to be born how they were?

Many mixed people actually have Asian Dads, but this army loser/prostitute stereotype gets projected on them despite the fact that they have no relation to that....

rant rant rant...

[AZNSLGR]

My take on this thread....

Tiger is 50% asian!!! The BEST GOLFER IN THE WORLD IS ASIAN!!!!

[BeTheReds]

Who, Vijay Singh?

Just kidding... But this illustrates the point. Asians ready to accept mixed celebs as Asian... but doubt comes to mind when it comes to non celebs...

[Asian_Casanova]

Furthermore, your example is ridiculous and extreme. Extreme because no woman in her right mind would marry a fundamentalist muslim unless she herself was a fundamentalist muslim, and thre aren't many of those in East Asia...

Ridiculous because most fundamentalist Muslims wouldn't marry a non-muslim.


that might sound ridiculous but there's a certain truth to it; do you think women are generally of sound mind when choosing partners? :biggrin:. Did you know the notorious serial killer richard ramirez has a strong admiration from groupies who write him letters in prison? the moral of the story: you should never, EVER, trust a womans instinct when choosing her partner.

non-muslim women do marry fundamentalist muslims; the thing is they normally convert after meeting them - a yellowworlds members sister is a good example of this - now she's wearing traditional dress (burqa?) and apparently in a "happy" marriage.

[BeTheReds]

Well I'm not myscogenist or anything...

[AngryABCGirl]

that might sound ridiculous but there's a certain truth to it; do you think women are generally of sound mind when choosing partners? :biggrin:. Did you know the notorious serial killer richard ramirez has a strong admiration from groupies who write him letters in prison? the moral of the story: you should never, EVER, trust a womans instinct when choosing her partner.

non-muslim women do marry fundamentalist muslims; the thing is they normally convert after meeting them - a yellowworlds members sister is a good example of this - now she's wearing traditional dress (burqa?) and apparently in a "happy" marriage.

God, you're such a dumbass. It's loser guys like you who give all the good Asian guys a bad rep.

[AngryABCGirl]

I used to buy that...that is...until I actually came to Asia (or Japan in particular).

It just seems like many Japanese don't even want to give up their negative stereotypes of black people even when they meet some who don't fit that negative image. Because, well, that would just require energy. Energy to re-think about how they look at a whole group of people, and it's just much easier to not have re-examine their beliefs, because that would put them on the outside.

Meanwhile (I hate be THAT guy, I really do) it seems white people get WAY more leniency when it comes to these type of things.

I get the feeling he's just not talking about mixed Black/Asian or mixed White/Asian people, but just the difference in which Black and White looking people are treated in Asia. I have to say from what I've seen I agree. White people can get away with a lot of things Black people can't in Asia are generally treated better in terms of non-White foreigners.

The ironic thing I've found about this is through my experiences most of the Black people I came across in Asia were the very educated elite from Africa or countries in the Antilles who were there on business or for Chinese education while the overwhelming amount of White people were dumbass loser types loving the attention they got from girls, which made it all the more depressing because people would treat them like they're celebrities or hot shit when some of these people would be considered so fugly in the West.

People always pose the argument that oh it's "Asians think dark skin is bad" idea, but I don't think it's just it. Most newsfeeds in Asia for example, of stories that aren't local are translated feeds from usually US or British outlets. Also American movies and television are all over Asia and that made of reporting also is too. Asian celebrities appear in advertisements to sponsor kids in Africa too and that kind of reporting. So I do think people absorb American stereotype of Blacks in America as a criminals and people in Africa just as starving masses as a result of what they see, not just because of some traditional belief or something.

[Asian_Casanova]

God, you're such a dumbass. It's loser guys like you who give all the good Asian guys a bad rep.

Why do you feel the need to put me down? :redface:

What are you upset about? is it my comments about women who, in my humble opinion, are bad judges when it comes to selecting a husband? (no offence intended)

[AngryABCGirl]

Why do you feel the need to put me down? :redface:

What are you upset about? is it my comments about women who, in my humble opinion, are bad judges when it comes to selecting a husband? (no offence intended)

Yes. You should know you perpetuate stereotypes of the socially awkward Asian man.

[Asian_Casanova]

Yes. You should know you perpetuate stereotypes of the socially awkward Asian man.

do you not agree with me that women generally do not choose the right guys for marriage or dating? i can't tell you how many times i've heard from women and from female friends how their relationships are deteriorating or how they argue constantly.

[Adaon]

(which invariably happen to an Asian female and Black male)

I'd just like to point out that I found this part of his original post to be the stupidest part of his stupid post.

Like it's improbable to have an Asian guy and African American girl.

Pfft. I'm still hearin' my friend ranting and raving about this thread. I'm posting this comment cuz I'm getting "encouraged" to.

[BeTheReds]

I'd just like to point out that I found this part of his original post to be the stupidest part of his stupid post.

Like it's improbable to have an Asian guy and African American girl.

Pfft. I'm still hearin' my friend ranting and raving about this thread. I'm posting this comment cuz I'm getting "encouraged" to.

It's extremely improbable. I've only ever seen one case of it, over 10 years ago.

[AngryABCGirl]

It's extremely improbable. I've only ever seen one case of it, over 10 years ago.

I've seen a lot actually, like more than I can count and I've seen Black/Chinese kids running around the supermarkets where I live with an Asian dad. But I am in California.

do you not agree with me that women generally do not choose the right guys for marriage or dating? i can't tell you how many times i've heard from women and from female friends how their relationships are deteriorating or how they argue constantly.

And guys are better? Wow someone doesn't know relationships. And thinks he's being censored.

[eos]

guys are pretty stupid when it comes to picking mates also.

it's cuz they use their lower head to think for them.

and just because you put "no offense" at the end of every asinine remark doesn't make it all better.

[kimpossible]

Another thread about mixed Asians that went off the ditch into IR. I'm in shock, I tell you. Shock.

[popculturepooka]

People always pose the argument that oh it's "Asians think dark skin is bad" idea, but I don't think it's just it. Most newsfeeds in Asia for example, of stories that aren't local are translated feeds from usually US or British outlets. Also American movies and television are all over Asia and that made of reporting also is too. Asian celebrities appear in advertisements to sponsor kids in Africa too and that kind of reporting. So I do think people absorb American stereotype of Blacks in America as a criminals and people in Africa just as starving masses as a result of what they see, not just because of some traditional belief or something.

Oh, I have no doubt that Western media effects how a lot of Asians look at a lot of blacks or blasians or whatever.

It's just that BEFORE I came to Japan I was thinking "Well, it's just the media, and once they meet a cool blasian and/or black person (i.e. me ;)) then they will see that those stereotypes are not true, they will be willing to open up."

I guess I just under-estimated the power of Western media, especially when the vast majority of Asians in Asia don't even deal with foreigners (much less so black people) on a regular basis, where else are they going to get their ideas on how black people are "supposed" to be be, if they don't interact with them?

Even then..I just don't understand, these aren't children, these are grown ass adults and/or teenagers, how do you really let media influence you that much?

Hmm...now that I think on it, that could be said of practically any group of people.

[AngryABCGirl]

Oh, I have no doubt that Western media effects how a lot of Asians look at a lot of blacks or blasians or whatever.

It's just that BEFORE I came to Japan I was thinking "Well, it's just the media, and once they meet a cool blasian and/or black person (i.e. me ;)) then they will see that those stereotypes are not true, they will be willing to open up."

I guess I just under-estimated the power of Western media, especially when the vast majority of Asians in Asia don't even deal with foreigners (much less so black people) on a regular basis, where else are they going to get their ideas on how black people are "supposed" to be be, if they don't interact with them?

Even then..I just don't understand, these aren't children, these are grown ass adults and/or teenagers, how do you really let media influence you that much?

Hmm...now that I think on it, that could be said of practically any group of people.

I guess that's the crux of it. As minorities in America I think we have a tendency, especially those of us who are well-educated, learn to be critical of the media portrayals in general because we're at the losing end of the stick in dealing with the consequences so we learn to question it. I mean wtf am I supposed to be some stupid bitch who listens to white guys seriously because women on TV who look like me are like that? Or is every Black guy a criminal? Come on.

The most hilarious thing is when I see little Black junior high kids acting like little thugs in LA and people actually being scared of them, and then you see one of their moms rolling up to them in a suburban minivan and yelling at them. Power of the media I tell you.

But people who don't interact with the people they see on TV will derive some kind of opinion based on what they see, unfortunately, which is why I'm all for alternative media.