asian chivalry or courtly love

[VV o n g B a]

so i see a commenter on a genetic/science blog that theorizes that european men may be wired more for "aspirations to to princely / gentlemanly ideals, which do not have cultural equivalents in the rest of the world." the commenter goes on to say, "One thing is for certain: the Lancelot and Guinevere character types, even as fiction, never existed in popular Chinese imagination and lore."

those comments bugged me, and i think that the dream of red mansions disproves that but i'm still reading about it online so i'm not entirely sure of it. (the cast is freaking huge... there's a lot to summarize)

anyways, i was wondering if u guys knew of other literary works or traditions in asia (or even elsewhere) that would prove the commenter wrong.

[AngryABCGirl]

so i see a commenter on a genetic/science blog that theorizes that european men may be wired more for "aspirations to to princely / gentlemanly ideals, which do not have cultural equivalents in the rest of the world." the commenter goes on to say, "One thing is for certain: the Lancelot and Guinevere character types, even as fiction, never existed in popular Chinese imagination and lore."

those comments bugged me, and i think that the dream of red mansions disproves that but i'm still reading about it online so i'm not entirely sure of it. (the cast is freaking huge... there's a lot to summarize)

anyways, i was wondering if u guys knew of other literary works or traditions in asia (or even elsewhere) that would prove the commenter wrong.

This is totally wrong, and there's tons of literature to back it up, as well as a billion ancient Chinese serial dramas to contemporary ones. And Lancelot and Guinevere ain't got shit on 牛郎 and 織女 as far as I'm concerned. Hell, every nearly best seller in Taiwan and HK bookstores were all romance novels directed towards women my age demographic or else other ones for my mother's. If anything I feel like the Asian dating world has a lot more notions of gentlemanly chivalry and idealized romance than exists in the US. It's a woman's an expectation to be wooed there. Personally, I find it kind of scary and overwhelming because nothing I've encountered in my career and cause-driven circles even compares close.

[VV o n g B a]

wow thx. i kinda feel bad for not knowing now and even needing to look stuff up.

[Banana]

Subtle translation:

"Asian men are oppressive and won't treat you as well as white men! Come to butthead!"

I need to find me an Asian girl and romance the shit out of her now.

[SunWuKong]

so i see a commenter on a genetic/science blog that theorizes that european men may be wired more for "aspirations to to princely / gentlemanly ideals, which do not have cultural equivalents in the rest of the world." the commenter goes on to say, "One thing is for certain: the Lancelot and Guinevere character types, even as fiction, never existed in popular Chinese imagination and lore."

those comments bugged me, and i think that the dream of red mansions disproves that but i'm still reading about it online so i'm not entirely sure of it. (the cast is freaking huge... there's a lot to summarize)

anyways, i was wondering if u guys knew of other literary works or traditions in asia (or even elsewhere) that would prove the commenter wrong.

if anything, at least in HK, i'd say it's quite the opposite in your average HKer's mind. that it's Western men that are not as gentlemenly.

hell, back in HK, i and other guys were basically expected to escort girls all the way home everytime we go out, even if we weren't dating and we were just taking the bus anyway.

[VV o n g B a]

Subtle translation:

"Asian men are oppressive and won't treat you as well as white men! Come to butthead!"

I need to find me an Asian girl and romance the shit out of her now.

oh believe me, there was nothing subtle about the full comment. i didn't originally post the link to the comment for a reason. i didn't want this to get sidetracked before i had an answer.

here it is if u're interested. the comment was way on down there. note: u might be a little sidetracked by the blog entry being commented on. u may find it... a bit condescending.
http://www.halfsigma.com/2007/11/is-it-wrong-for.html#comments

[Banana]

Ok, I'm going to say it one more time.

Why the hell did I click on this thread?

[VV o n g B a]

牛郎 and 織女just read this online. man, i wish i had known about stuff like this before. i feel like i've just come across a big gaping hole in my upbringing.

[SunWuKong]

just read this online. man, i wish i had known about stuff like this before. i feel like i've just come across a big gaping hole in my upbringing.

don't know about "princely" ideals, but there are definitely romance stories in Chinese classics. they're usually tragic tales with sad endings though.

[eos]

^yeah. someone always dies, or gets sent to the moon, or one lives as an immortal and the other doesn't.

something like that.

[AngryABCGirl]

don't know about "princely" ideals, but there are definitely romance stories in Chinese classics. they're usually tragic tales with sad endings though.

Medieval ones like King Arthur aren't much better either. I think its really easy and important for Western "scholars" to confound present-day ideals of Western culture of old European folk tales and compare them to ancient ones in different cultures. For people who really do their homework, people will Western culture hasn't been any less barbaric than any others or elevated. Yet in arguments about asserting Western culture's superiority over another's backwardness, people seem to keep using faulty examples and logic by using present day Western culture and juxtaposing it with older elements, from say Asian culture.

[unemployable]

What website are you reading. I want to read it too.

[unemployable]

Actually, I used to be all into King Arthur and the Knights of the Round Table. I read lots of books on it, and I even had a club that was like that.

That's how life and work should be. A round table. No one better or worse than the other.

[unemployable]

Actually, I used to be all into King Arthur and the Knights of the Round Table. I read lots of books on it, and I even had a club that was like that.

That's how life and work should be. A round table. No one better or worse than the other.

[Napoleon Chynamite]

I'm not sure why there's this whole stereotype about Asian men being chauvinistic. Every time my girlfriend is in the kitchen cooking me breakfast, lunch, or dinner, I always turn up the volume to the TV in the living room so that she can hear it also. People are just haters.

[phoenixlament]

^yeah. someone always dies, or gets sent to the moon, or one lives as an immortal and the other doesn't.

something like that.

Maybe Asians take a more realistic approach rather than those fantasized "happy ever after endings with prince Charming and cute blonde princess".

Asians take it easy on the fantasy. Most of us treat life as life and don't romanticize too much.

[AngryABCGirl]

Maybe Asians take a more realistic approach rather than those fantasized "happy ever after endings with prince Charming and cute blonde princess".

Asians take it easy on the fantasy. Most of us treat life as life and don't romanticize too much.

Wow have you seen Asian TV shows or read Asian novels?

[CBC guy]

Hmmm yeah Asian novels and TV shows.... "realistic" my ass LOL

I only know of LU Bu and DiaoChan from RTK

His "present" was the decapitated head of a tyrant. Talk about "romantic" haha

[phoenixlament]

Wow have you seen Asian TV shows or read Asian novels?

No, i don't. i don't have time for that pop culture crap. But the conclusion I draw is from typically traditional Asians.

[AngryABCGirl]

No, i don't. i don't have time for that pop culture crap. But the conclusion I draw is from typically traditional Asians.

ha. right.

[SunWuKong]

No, i don't. i don't have time for that pop culture crap. But the conclusion I draw is from typically traditional Asians.

is this another one of those cases where an American or Canadian-born Asian sees the things that his or her immigrant parents and older relatives do and thus conclude that everybody in Asia must be the same way?

[Napoleon Chynamite]

Wow have you seen Asian TV shows or read Asian novels?

Are you implying that people usually don't get run over by mack trucks immediately after visiting their terminally ill yet impossibly beautiful and completely virtuous and innocent crush at the hospital, who in turn was cheated out of a relationship with another perfect guy (who hates the first guy that got run over because of past painful childhood memories and coincidentally coming to like the same girl) by her evil stepmother and hot yet evil stepsisters?

Happy NY everyone

[AngryABCGirl]

Are you implying that people usually don't get run over by mack trucks immediately after visiting their terminally ill yet impossibly beautiful and completely virtuous and innocent crush at the hospital, who in turn was cheated out of a relationship with another perfect guy (who hates the first guy that got run over because of past painful childhood memories and coincidentally coming to like the same girl) by her evil stepmother and hot yet evil stepsisters?

Happy NY everyone

Don't perfect the perfect guy is her brother, but not related by blood but somehow because of being mixed up at birth and he's been in love with her since they were siblings, yet know and felt like it was wrong.

[CBC guy]

Yes I know all about those crappy shows no I don't watch them. The students I'm teaching in china can't get enough of this stupid overly-sentimental and totally unrealistic crap they throw out on TV here. Its ridiculous.

At least the girls in them are unbelievably hot so I usually just mute the TV and look at the girls... haha I should sleep soon I'm way past my usual bedtime and the quality of my posts detoriates rapidly after this LOL