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View Full Version : In Japan, it's the men who want to be skinny and cute


VV o n g B a
11-19-2007, 10:15 AM
i'd be tempted to call this a bs story, but the fact they're quoting the bape designer as being in agreement w/ this trend gives it some heft. i know angryabcgirl has commented on the guys in taiwan being waifs too.

i gotta say, i kinda hope its not true. but if it is, well... whatever works. i'm sure they wouldn't be doing it if it didn't show results.

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There was a time when slimness was the absolute prerequisite for urban Japanese women, when designers like Shinichiro Arakawa and Yohji Yamamoto professed a flat refusal to make clothes for women who weren't fragile and thin, whose chests and hips were barely discernable through the fabric.

That aesthetic went out when the health and exercise boom came in about seven years ago - the new Japanese woman, according to the fashion critic Ikuko Hirayama, is: "strong, robust, bursting with energy. She takes care of her body but is not obsessed with being thin. She's proud of her biceps and also proud of her sexuality."

Accordingly, the most popular relaxation sport for single working women nowadays is "boxercising," or the combination of boxing moves plus aerobics, which is said to increase adrenaline flow by 80 percent and is an ideal way to blow off aggression and stress.

In stark contrast, it's the men who want to be slender, vulnerable and protected. Young males between the ages of 18 and 30 make up the slimmest segment of the population and the ideal fashion weight as decreed by the apparel industry is 57 kilograms, or about 125 pounds, for a height of 175 centimeters, or 5 feet 8 inches. Many men try to adhere to that figure and some claim they want to be even skinnier.

Twenty-five-year-old Junichi Shirakawa, who works at the denim boutique 45 RPM, said that his goal is to get his weight down from 57 to 55 kilograms, although his height is 182 centimeters. "Being really skinny is essential, not just for fashion and work purposes but also because girls seem to go for thin guys," he said.

Both Shirakawa and his girlfriend like the fact that she weighs more than he does, and is the leader of the couple. "She's a lot stronger than I am, can lift heavy things and go drinking until dawn. I admire that about her, and feel protected when I'm around her," he said. Older than he by five years, it was Shirakawa's girlfriend who made the approach, started the dating process and decided what course their relationship would take.

full article:
http://iht.com/articles/2007/11/19/style/fslim.php

Craig
11-19-2007, 10:38 AM
Sorry, but what is not bs about the article, ... there are a few things sprinkled in there that seem plausible, but overall ... *total BS* ...
Both Shirakawa and his girlfriend like the fact that she weighs more than he does, and is the leader of the couple. "She's a lot stronger than I am, can lift heavy things and go drinking until dawn. I admire that about her, and feel protected when I'm around her," he said. Older than he by five years, it was Shirakawa's girlfriend who made the approach, started the dating process and decided what course their relationship would take.

"Frankly, I think women should be in the driver's seat. Society and relationships work better that way," he said. Shirakawa likes to wear his girlfriend's clothes and often shows up for work wearing her blouse and jeans, to the general approval of his co-workers.

Hirayama said: "For young men, wearing women's clothes has almost become a status symbol - a confirmation of being slim and pretty and, therefore, desirable. Young women, on the other hand, are less interested now in looking beautiful for the benefit of young men. They dress up for themselves, for their own satisfaction."

SunWuKong
11-19-2007, 11:07 AM
^what the fuck is that? his girlfriend wants a gay guy friend, not a boyfriend.

VV o n g B a
11-19-2007, 11:41 AM
as i said, the fact that the bape guy appeared to be in agreement w/ the writer seems to lend it some credence. i wouldn't have posted this otherwise.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Bathing_Ape

it'd be great if someone in japan (btr?) or that has recently traveled there could debunk this.

kimpossible
11-19-2007, 12:36 PM
It's not entirely untrue, but it's not terribly representative of "Japanese guys". I'd say some image or fashion conscious Tokyo guys, yes and perhaps if no longer now then a few years ago. Just like you got guys here in the US that cultivate the girlpants wearin' look but it's not representative of American men in general.

Keep in mind the stark difference between city and outlying areas. For example on the coast you usually have bigger guys that surf and wear shorts when you'd never see anyone wearing shorts in the city. Well, almost never.

AngryABCGirl
11-19-2007, 01:15 PM
I have the impression in Asia that thin is in for either gender. I met only one Japanese woman (and there are oodles of them there) in Taiwan that loved working out, which was cool, but all the other ones were still a bunch of waifs. So were the Japanese guys too. The only exception I really see is Korean men.

It's interesting Nigo said that, considering I own a bunch of his wares and they're not exceptionally small or anything, although the stores in Asia (been to Taipei and HK one) don't carry the larger sizes like the New York one does.

Banana
11-19-2007, 03:37 PM
lol

popculturepooka
11-19-2007, 03:41 PM
I'm in Yokohama (which is about 30 - 60 minutes away from Tokyo "The fashion capital of Asia") and thin is definitely in and bucking the norm is really only socially acceptable if you want to be a sumo wrestler. That's about it.
Fat kids get teased mercilessly here; even moreso than in the U.S.
People here are straight up blunt (I think this is the case in other Asian countries also?) about weight gain. It's not uncommon for them to say, "Hey, I see you've put on a bit of weight, might want to cut back, eh?"

<amusing anecdote>
Japanese people are very concerned about their weight even to the point paranoia. Doctors even have this weird obsession with weight. I have a friend who's conversation went something like:
Doc: So, how are you feeling?
Friend: Better, but I still have a terrible cough and am experiencing fatigue.
Doc: I see. *looks at his profile* Hmmmmm...I see you're a little overweight.
Friend: *annoyed* I could probably stand to lose a few kilos, sure, but anyway, about the coughing and fatigue...
Doc: This isn't good. Have you tried dieting?
Friend: *more annoyed* I eat balanced meals and go to the gym 3-4 times a week. Anyway, so my cold/flu...
Doc: *looking at chest x-ray* ...Your heart is too big. Obviously, it's having to work extra hard to support all your extra weight.
Friend: *extremely annoyed* You know, I didn't have any problems with exhaustion until after I caught this virus...
Doc: At this rate, your life is in danger. The sooner you diet, the longer you may be able to live.
Friend: .............................................
</amusing anecdote>

Women putting on weight and bulking up is a big no-no. Women are supposed to be fragile, thin, helpless, and cute. Bulking up would break all these stereotypes. I doubt it's hardly a trend...

For the guys, the metrosexual look as been in forever. Compared to western metrosexual, Japanese men seem like huge flaming gay guys, wearing leather and all that shit.
Part of that includes being ridiculously thin. (See: Visual Kei artists)
I know it's cool among some guys to use "girly" colloquialisms...so...yeah....

That's interesting that Nigo co-signs, because his stuff isn't made for a crowd (hip-hoppers) that want their stuff to be close fitting.

As for Shirakawa and his girlfriend, they are two in a million. I'd say the vast majority of Japanese men want their women subservient to them. Which includes, again, being thin.
A man can hardly be dominant when that woman is liable to kick his ass.

Banana
11-19-2007, 04:30 PM
This information will just encourage China and Korea to invade.

popculturepooka
11-19-2007, 06:08 PM
This information will just encourage China and Korea to invade.

D:

Yokohama has the largest Chinatown (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yokohama_Chinatown) in Asia and it's also one of the largest in the world! Those crafty, crafty Chinese with already establishing a foothold from whence to take over!

Napoleon Chynamite
11-19-2007, 06:41 PM
It's true that in Asia (and many other countries besides the U.S.), it's much more acceptable and maybe even trendy for men to adopt traits or appearances traditionally deemed more "feminine" than in our homophobic American society, but the title of the article makes it sound like the women in Japan don't want to be skinny or cute, and of course in reality of course they do...even more so than the men, as it goes without saying.

VV o n g B a
11-19-2007, 06:55 PM
it's the most emailed article on iht.com today and in the top 10 for the week.

Napoleon Chynamite
11-19-2007, 07:09 PM
Great. More reason for the whole world to buy into the effeminate Asian guy stereotype. Why does God hate us?

AngryABCGirl
11-19-2007, 07:36 PM
Great. More reason for the whole world to buy into the effeminate Asian guy stereotype. Why does God hate us?

Well, look at it this way, it's not considered effeminate in Asia or in much of Europe for that matter, a bunch of skinny men in pink shirts there too. And it's not really not effeminate if girls go ga-ga over them and they get laid if you think of it that way.

Why look to only conform to White American notions of masculinity? Especially projecting that to people in Asia? Plus, it's not like every single guy in Japan, or Asia for that matter is looking to be cute and waify either.

Napoleon Chynamite
11-19-2007, 07:48 PM
^ Yea I know. Sorry sarcasm don't translate well over the internet ^^

AngryABCGirl
11-19-2007, 10:19 PM
^ Yea I know. Sorry sarcasm don't translate well over the internet ^^

LOL yeah sorry I jumped on your ass. It just wouldn't be uncharteristic of someone to say that though.

DragonKnight
11-21-2007, 10:11 AM
Those crafty, crafty Chinese with already establishing a foothold from whence to take over!
Oh hush, we all know that Koreans are the one's taking over the world. The fact that me and my gf saw a Korean Social Services building in Seattle proves my point. I'm taking photos of that shit next time I'm there. :biggrin:

Craig
11-21-2007, 10:45 AM
Oh hush, we all know that Koreans are the one's taking over the world. The fact that me and my gf saw a Korean Social Services building in Seattle proves my point. I'm taking photos of that shit next time I'm there. :biggrin:I've seen half a dozen Korean churches over here in Oklahoma City.

popculturepooka
11-23-2007, 09:25 PM
Oh hush, we all know that Koreans are the one's taking over the world. The fact that me and my gf saw a Korean Social Services building in Seattle proves my point. I'm taking photos of that shit next time I'm there. :biggrin:

Shhhhhhhhhhhh.

VV o n g B a
11-23-2007, 11:59 PM
this story is now iht's most emailed story of the month.

eos
11-24-2007, 09:16 AM
i see some of those guys here and yeah, they're nice to look at, very pretty, but that's it. i don't want my bf to be cuter than me. plus i'm a little old-fashioned cuz i expect the guy to protect me and not the other way around.

Broomer
01-07-2008, 05:27 AM
See my initial response to the Hello Kitty thread.