View Full Version : Asian-American Issues - All Interconnected
Whether it be the IR disparity, AFs who have a negative perception of AMs, AFs who have a negative perception of themselves (and/or their features), AMs who have a negative perception of themselves as Asian + male, AMs who have a negative perception of AFs, the high rate of depression for Asian-Americans, Asian-Americans opting to undergo appearance altering surgery for the wrong reasons, the higher admissions bar for Asian-American applicants at the top universities (due to the perception by many admissions offices of Asian applicants being “textureless math grinds”), the tougher road for Asians in climbing the corporate ladder, etc. – they all are SYMPTOMS of the LOW self-esteem and identity issues which, in particular, plague the Asian-American community and they all have a COMMON foundation (social conditioning, much of it promulgated by the media).
From an Asian-American women’s magazine -
Although official numbers don’t exist, ask any college counselor and she’ll be quick to tell you: It’s not just white girls throwing up in dorm bathrooms anymore. Due to a variety of factors — ranging from the quest to look “more Western” to the quest to keep up with their counterparts back in Asia — minority and immigrant adolescents are increasingly shedding pounds in an effort to emulate the tall, thin women exalted in fashion and pop culture. Asian American women, an ethnic group that traditionally has one of the highest suicide and low self-esteem rates in the country, may be more prone to eating disorders than previously imagined, according to Christine Iijima Hall, a Japanese American psychologist and former president of the Asian American Psychological Association (AAPA).
The White Standard
Medical professionals disagree about the causes of eating disorders in Asian Americans, but recent research points to distinct trends. In the latter part of the 20th century and in the last decade in particular, the globalization of Western notions of beauty has changed the way developed Asian countries view thinness. While many Asian women were once admired for their fuller figures and faces, Hall says today many feel pressure to look like blonde, blue-eyed celebrities. Unable to change their Asian features without footing high bills for plastic surgery, some focus on the easiest thing they can control: their weight.
“It’s definitely a problem that’s overlooked,” says Lynda Yoshikawa, a Japanese American counselor at San Jose State University and a member of the AAPA. “The propensity for high body dissatisfaction is definitely there.”
“The white American woman is considered the ideal body type,” Hall explains. “And ethnic women are further away from that ideal. Weight is an issue, but it’s not the only issue. For Asian women, it’s eyes, nose, legs and butt.”
For many young Asian Americans, discomfort with their Asian features can take a dangerous toll. Aretha Choi, a Korean American freshman at Barnard College in New York City, began watching her weight in middle school. Aretha went to an all-white school in Denver, Colo., where her broad, pale cheeks and straight black hair stood out among her classmates. “In seventh grade I realized I was different,” says the slender 18-year-old during a study break at a college cafe. “I didn’t look like Britney Spears, I didn’t have blonde hair. Physically, I couldn’t embody that, so the next best thing was to be skinny.” In Denver, Aretha’s sense of identity was in perpetual conflict. Her parents, both first-generation Korean immigrants, expected her to abide by Korean customs at home. But at school she was exposed to different kinds of culturally appropriate behavior. Times were confusing, says Aretha, but for the most part she was able to balance both cultural demands.
But in the ninth grade Aretha left home for Phillips Academy in Andover, Mass., and things began to fall apart. Aretha found her move particularly jarring. She couldn’t eat Korean food; she couldn’t speak Korean at home. For the first time, she was consumed by American culture. “Korean culture was so present that it strained my interactions with the outside world,” explains Aretha. At the same time, she became increasingly insecure about her appearance. But unlike her peers, it wasn’t her thighs or her waistline that was bothering her — it was her Asian facial features. “I thought if I shrunk everything, my face would look smaller — more proportional, more Western,” she says.
Aretha, who bounced from doctor to doctor in her search for culturally appropriate treatment, is hoping researchers and donors will get the ball moving sooner rather than later. “It was very difficult for doctors to know where I was coming from,” she says. “The food the nutritionist gave me was Western food. They didn’t get it. It wasn’t, ‘Oh, I want to be skinny,’ it was, ‘Oh, I want to be white.’”
From a NE newspaper -
One of the more delicate areas I dealt with while running a dating service for more than two decades was the issue of race, and more specifically racial stereotyping by prospective members.
However, when one is dealing with a sample of more than 20,000 single, divorced, and widowed men and women, I feel confident and comfortable making certain statements in a column titled The Truth about Dating.
Yet I was still hesitant to write this column, until a reader sent me an article from The New York Times, in which the author, John Tierney, published a story about racial preferences in the dating world.
Moreover, the article cited a study titled Racial Preferences in Dating that documented the preferences of more than 400 participants in speed dating sessions at Columbia University. A quick reading of both the Times article and the Columbia study seemed to support my own anecdotal findings.
Anyway, here is what I found in 23 years of interviewing singles, and I will attempt to communicate in my best “non-academic” language. When we interviewed prospective members, we always asked what their preferences were in terms of meeting people of different races.
Overall, women of most races preferred to meet men of their own race. Most Caucasian women wanted only to meet Caucasian men, the exceptions being women who were more educated and well-traveled, who considered themselves somewhat “worldly.”
Of all the races, African-American women were the most insistent about wanting to meet only African-American men. But most of those women excluded black men who had recently moved to New England from Africa or the Caribbean.
The one major exception to the finding that women wanted to meet men of their own race was Asian women, a vast majority of whom stated that they strongly preferred meeting non-Asian men.
The primary explanation offered by most Asian women was that they wanted to be matched with tall men, and they insisted that practically all of the Asian men they knew were short. But when I would ask if they would be willing to meet an Asian man if he were tall, most would simply shake their head and say they would rather not.
Of course Asian men were difficult to match because, as I previously stated, the one group of women who did not want to meet men of their own race was Asian women.
(This matchmaker’s 23 yrs. experience, btw, matches many of the results found in the Freakonomics analysis of racial preferences on online dating sites.)
And not only do the SYMPTOMS of low self-esteem and identity appear in articles (in both Asian and non-Asian oriented publications), they pop up frequently in American pop culture.
There was Gina on “America’s Next Top Model”, who talked big about being a role model and “representing” Asian women in the fashion industry, and yet, who blurted out (of the blue) about how she doesn’t date Asian guys b/c they are “too short.”
Gina evidently thought that ragging on Asian guys would win her some points (conforming to society’s norms), but to her horror, Tyra (to her credit), actually called her out for that statement (and the inherent contradiction with her previous statement of positively “repping” Asian females).
Btw, Gina at 5’7” is hardly a giantress (esp. by Korean standards – since the AVERAGE height of young males in Korea is almost 5’9” – with many being over 6’).
And when “called out” - Gina (despite her initial bravado) instantly reverted to the poor, confused Asian girl with self-esteem issues that she actually was (in contrast to the wild, stereotype-breaking AF that she initally made herself out to be; ironically, the half black/half white “model” wannabe on the show, who ended up tormenting Gina, was quite SECURE in her identity and didn’t have the issues with regard to self-esteem and identity that Gina, a person who wasn’t bi-racial, clearly had).
Take a look at these video clips from Tyra’s talk show.
AF who didn’t date AMs (the actual show was about problems with INTERRACIAL dating, and yet, they highlighted an AF who dated IR but didn’t dare AMs) –
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QvL7eR3f2kg
(Note when the girl talks about AM and AF stereotypes and what her date says about how her actions are affected by said stereotypes).
AF who had her eyelids done due to her “age” (she actually looks better in the “before” pictures) -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQ7XSIi3kAs
Gay AM in denial -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmK1T23p1Xw
While the 3 seemingly have 3 different issues – the basic underlying issue/problem, however, is the SAME (low self-esteem and identity issues with being an Asian-American which have just manifested in 3 different ways)
From a CNN article during Asian-American month -
Noh added that simply being a minority can also lead to depression.
"My sister had a really low self-image. She thought of herself as ugly," she says. "We grew up in Houston in the '70s and '80s, and at that time in school there were very few Asian faces. The standard of beauty she wanted to emulate was white women." In college, Noh's sister had plastic surgery to make her eyes and nose appear more European-looking.
From an article on junk food in a mid-Western newspaper -
And during her Vietnamese-immigrant childhood, what she wanted to be more than anything was "a real American, the right kind of American," she said.
But junk food gave her access. "It had this symbolic weight to it. It was like being someone else -- the BLOND girl I always wanted to be."
"When I was a kid I did feel like I had to choose between being American and being Vietnamese, and for me there was almost no choice," she said..
From an article on the Miss NY Chinese Beauty pageant -
Later, as the contestants exchanged beauty advice about the best whitening lotion and eyelid tape, some of the girls cringed at the extent to which their competitors seemed to idealize Caucasian features.
At the age of 11, when she emigrated, Stacy knew that her parents had left their comfortable lives behind in China, where her father was a software engineer, so that she could thrive in America. But the route to Queens from the industrial city of Harbin, near the Russian border, was pocked with obstacles.
“I guess I missed two years of happiness,” Stacy said one Sunday afternoon in July at Grand Harmony restaurant on Mott Street as she munched on chicken feet (a natural anti-wrinkle agent, thanks to the high collagen content, according to Ms. Hon). “In China, I always felt like I was on top. But when I came here, I felt like a nobody, like I was inferior. I looked up to anyone who could speak English.”
All of these things – AFs with eating disorders, AFs who opt for surgery to look “more white” (I’m not saying that this is always the reason for such surgery), AFs who arbitrarily refuse to date AMs or are embarrassed to associate with other Asians, AMs who do the same with regard to AFs and other Asians, gay AMs who only date white (“potato queens”), AMs who believe that they are doomed to a life of loneliness, AFs AND AMs (much less general society) who think that AMs are unattractive, AFs and AMs who suffer from depression, Asian-Americans who look down on “FOBs”, Asians who think they are “better” b/c they have a white boyfriend/girlfriend and have mostly or all white friends, etc. are all just different SYMPTOMS of the same underlying problem with regard to self-esteem and identity issues as an Asian-American.
What’s the FIRST step in addressing these SYMPTOMS?
Making Asian-Americans AWARE of these issues and how much the underlying cause impacts them on how they view themselves as Asian-Americans and how they view the Asian-American community as a whole.
Furthermore, there has been interesting research regarding this area (the power of media images and stereotypes and how we are often unaware of its hold).
In one study, “interviewers” (via the telephone and email) gave their “Asian-American” interviewees LOWER scores for language skills and personality than those they had given to their “African-American” interview subjects (in actuality, all of the interview subjects were white; the “interviewers” were just “informed” by the subjects at the onset that they were either Asian or black).
In another experiment, researchers (not surprisingly) found that most people had inherent favorable biases for others within their racial group. Upon looking at photos of white and black persons, ALL of the white test subjects showed a more favorable reaction when looking at photos of fellow whites than upon gazing at an image of a black person. Otoh, only a majority of the black test subjects showed a more favorable reaction upon looking at photos of fellow black persons – a minority of the blacks (much to their shock) had the same reaction as the white test subjects, showing a more favorable reaction upon looking at photos of whites.
What was the difference btwn the two groups of blacks who had different biases? The group which showed a favorable bias upon looking at images of whites were OLDER African-Americans – those who grew up when there were FEWER positive portrayals of blacks in the media (than there have been the past 20 yrs or so).
(What would be the results for Asian-Americans? Particularly those who aren't exposed to any Asian media?)
At the most basic, these "discussions" about "IR" breaks a FUNDAMENTAL RULE you learn in KINDERGARTEN, that is MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS. if inter racial couples want to date each other... MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS. it is NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS. secondly, and more embarassingly, TALKING ABOUT/CARING ABOUT/ANALYSING/ TRYING TO FIND "SOLUTIONS" to THIS "PROBLEM"
epmd – you are looking at the issue of IR in a totally WRONG way.
For those Asian girls (or guys) who happen to fall for a non-Asian partner (or an Asian partner of a different ethnicity) because of the person’s INDIVIDUAL qualities (rather than the perceived qualities of the individual’s race) – there is absolutely no problem.
However, for those people (both males and females) who engage in IR relationships b/c of a belief in the superiority of girls or guys of a certain race (and by certain race, I mean whites – the fact that whites overwhelmingly make up the choice of IR partners for Asian-Americans says something in itself) or the reverse with regard to males or females of their own race – the issue basically comes down to having low self-esteem and/or having identity issues, with IR relationships, in these cases, merely being a SYMPTOM of the underlying problem.
For Asian girls and guys who think dating white is “dating up” or “dating better” or “justify” their dating of whites by making unflattering and stereotypical generalizations about their Asian counterparts – the issue very much is how they view Asians (as a whole or the opposite sex), which is a reflection of their own self-esteem and identity as an Asian-American/Canadian (or as how you would put it – they are totally LACKING in “AZN PRIDE”).
Their viewpoint is really no different from young black girls who prefer light-“skinned” dolls over dark-“skinned” dolls b/c they believe that the light-skinned dolls are “good” or “better” and that the dark-skinned dolls are “bad.”
Nor is it different from one group thinking that they are superior to another group (in this case, it’s one sub-group thinking that another group is superior).
Should we not care (and mind our “own business”) about how young black girls feel about darker-skinned people (not to mention themselves)?
The same thing applies to Asian-Americans, particular the young, who are heavily influenced by not only what they see in the media, but also by what their peers see and digest with regard to Asians.
talk about Asians are "disadvantaged"
in the dating scene. it seems to be that what these asian "men" are doing has come true. you guys ARE ACTING FEMININE.
Sorry, but this is a really stupid comment.
Yes, the guys who constantly whine about their fruitless dating lives and blame it solely on their being Asian + male is one thing, but I would hardly classify people discussing these issues (in an analytical manner) with regard to how it impacts the Asian-American community as a whole as “acting FEMININE”.
Yul Kwon has been at the forefront in discussing how AMs, in particular, are negatively portrayed in the media (just another one of the AA issues which harken back to the underlying problem of AA self-esteem and identity) – and by doing so, is he “acting feminine”?
Go to Korea or Japan. White people are NOT WORSHIPPED. white people TREATED LIKE SECOND CLASS CITIZENS there. they are not given any rights of any kind and people constantly make fun of their hairy bodies and long noses.
First of all, your statement isn’t entirely true. While some Asians do overblow how whites are treated in (East) Asia, whites, generally have it pretty good – in contrast to blacks, Arabs, desis and even East Asians of other ethnicities (a white person in Japan is generally going to be treated better than an Asian person who isn’t Japanese).
Btw, there are WM expats who do think that they are "worshipped", BM expats who think that whites are worshipped, BM expats who think blacks are worshipped, white expats who think get crapped upon constantly, etc. - while all of them have their element of truth, such generalizations tend to be superficial and incomplete (not to mention contradictory).
In addition, Asians in Asia watch tons of Hollywood films and TV shows (starring primarily whites) – and there is fairly substantial advertising featuring white celebs or models in Korea and Japan (and in parts of SE Asia, like Thailand, a significant no. of the celebs/models are hapas or “leuk kreung”).
Besides – your statement really doesn’t make any sense.
The whole point of these discussions with regard to problems of low self-esteem and identity issues in the AA community is that these problems exist b/c too many AA see themselves as being inferior to whites (the issues here are different from the issues in Asia - so there really is no point in bringing Asia into the discussion).
Btw, this also applies to Asian guys and girls who only date white b/c they see that as a “step up” or “being accepted” by American society – hence, we are trying to address the problem of them “worshipping” whites (so you see, you have it BACKWARDS).
For example, Amy Tan has been heavily criticized for her portrayal of Asian American men as chauvinistic, condescending, etc. While there may be SOME merit in these criticisms, I look at it another way. I see Amy Tan's works as sending a message to guys everywhere (and not just Asian American guys). Her message is simple: treat your lady as an equal.
There are more AA girls (who refuse to date AA guys) b/c they see AA guys as being “effeminate”, “weak”, “pushovers”, etc. – the total opposite of what Tan and you subscribe to (the fact that people use polar opposite stereotypes to justify their actions shows (1) how really stupid these stereotypes are and (2) shows that the “excuse” these girls use to justify their actions is total BS.
As far as chauvinistic, condescending attitudes towards women - the men in Japan, Korea and China generally have a leg up on AA males (you know, where they, as you say, “don’t worship whites”).
Plus, Hispanic males, black males, desi males, Arab males, etc. have the stereotype of being just as chauvinistic, etc. as Asian males (if not more so), but we don’t see the same issues within these communities (the IR marriage rates to whites for US born/raised desi is about the same for desi males and females at about 20%).
Btw, there are plenty of WMs who are just as chauvinistic – but whites have the luxury of not having such stereotypes apply to them across the board.
and if you react with any kind of intellectual response to anyone else who believes Asian men are feminine because some PUZZY TV SHOW says Asian men are feminine then you are a PUZZY.
Uhh, I don’t think the people here think that (if anything, they are trying to change the media representation to reflect more of the reality, or at least, make other less aware AAs cognizant of the fact that such media representation is an artificial construct).
And unfortunately, most people are PUSSIES (esp. the young who are particularly influenced by what they and their peers see in the media) – there’s a reason why corporations spend billions on advertising (and politicians spend hundreds of millions).
Do you talk about this stuff in formal settings? "All Asians are foreigners with accents?" Do smart people believe this? It is obvious that the shows which supposedly promote these kinds of things are EXTREMELY LOW on the intellectual totem poll. Stupid shows that deal with this stuff is not something you need to get worked about. And it is stupid people who watch those shows and believe it. STUPID PEOPLE ARE NOT WORTH INTELLECTUALLY RESPONDING TO.
I don’t know whether you consider admissions officers at the top universities, such as the Ivies, on the low end of the intellectual totem pole – but many of them DO believe in the stereotypes regarding Asians (i.e. – Asians are a bunch of “textureless math grinds”), which is reflected in the LOWER admit rate for Asian applicants than any other group.
Jews make up only 1.5% of college-age students and yet make up 26% of the Ivy League student body (30% at Penn, 29% at Yale, 26% at Harvard). Asian-Americans despite making up 5% of the college-age students (that’s more than 3 times that of Jews) only make up 16% of the Ivy League student body.
Here are what some Harvard students had to say about Asians.
Several white students at dinner in one of the House dining halls, who asked not to be named, offered their own takes on the stereotype. One said, “Well, they’re science concentrators. They stick together. Socially inept.” Another agreed, “Studious…oh, yeah, asocial, definitely. I mean, that just comes from studying, and not knowing how to talk to people.” A third: “Yeah, I guess I think of them as having broken English.”
And here is what an AAM basketball player had to deal with.
Jeremy S. Lin ’10 is a recruited basketball player, a member of the varsity team. He is also Asian-American. Since matriculating here, he’s discovered that these two facts are difficult for many Harvard students to accept together. “Some people don’t believe that I play basketball,” Lin says. “When people see me, they automatically assume I’m the worst on the team. They ask me if I only play when we’re already winning by a lot, things like that.”
Yeah, last year Lin came of the bench – as a frosh, he was the leading scorer off the bench and will likely be a starter this upcoming season,
In addition, there were 24-25 AA males on Harvard varsity teams last year, including Harvard’s best hockey player Kevin Du (btw, Harvard’s best female hockey player was also Asian) and 3 guys on the FB team, including the starting RB for the upcoming season (who will be the 2nd starting RB of Asian ancestry for Harvard).
as for your whole belief that white people are immune to negative stereotypes and the American media has that much of an influence on people's lives around the world, i suggest you try living in a place like Japan or Korea for a couple years.
In a word, White people are NOT regarded very highly over there, and American movies are treated as cartoons which stereotype Americans (white or black) as gun wielding buffoons who fuck anything that moves.
Once again, your portrayal of whites in Korea and Japan is not entirely accurate.
first time I went to Korea back in 2002, I went into a PC bang with my then 21 year old female Korean cousin. I got on yahoo messenger to talk to my friends back home who had webcams, my cousin saw a webcast of my blonde haired, blue eyed muscular "Canadian" friend (the type that a lot of online asian "activists" blame for IR and all that shit) and without any hesitation she reacted "eeeewwwww!! foreigners are disgusting!" (in Korean... "이이이~ 외국인 징그럽다") I asked her really and she said just shoot her head in one of those korean girly ways. dudes, this is how a lot of Koreans see white people, from what i've seen
Otoh, David Beckham, that guy from “Prison Break”, etc. are very popular in Japan and Korea (after Japan got knocked out during the last World Cup, the Japanese en mass adopted the English team as their “home team”).
Plus, I can give you plenty of anecdotes that go against (the actor who plays “Chandler” on “Friends” is pop. among some the Korean girls I have talked to) or support your assertion – anyway, what exactly is your point since we are talking about Asian-Americans and NOT Asians in Asia (btw, there are groups of girls in Asia who do opt for white guys b/c they deem them as being “nice”, “kind”, “sensitive”, etc.) – and a good no. (but certainly not all) of AAs who are in IR relationships are in one b/c they actual have bought into the “white ideal”.
when it is you who's worried about how people think about you based on how you percieve the TV emasculates you.
People who talk about these issues generally aren't worried about how the stereotypes on TV affects them (since such images lose their effectiveness upon being cognizant/aware of their "artificialness") - however, it is very much an issue in how these images affect impressionanble Asian-American youths - with better role models in the media, it is likely that many of the issues (symptoms) that AA face would be somewhat alleviated (i.e. - depression, opting for surgery for the wrong reasons, etc.).
Mod – this is a clarification/correction on Census statistics pertaining to the no. of Asian males and females in the US rather than a discussion on IR marriages.
You know, you have the same writing style (and same lack of sese) as someone on another who would continually lose arguments with me, disappear for a month, and then show up to argue the same thing, with the same arguments, in a new thread as if nothing happened. It would be quite sad if you were he.
LOL!!! Gotta love someone who is only a “genius” in his own mind/delusional world.
You keep saying you “win” the arguments when in the real world, your arguments, as I have REPEATEDLY shown were all superficial and badly flawed.
Mind you, this is coming from a guy who (1) claimed that the average American is unaware of Asian male stereotypes -
If you grabbed a random person from the suburbs or from tiny town, what do you think their perception of the Asian-American male stereotype would be? Would they even be aware of one?
…and yet is aware of Asian female stereotypes – While the media fetish with Asian women is blatant, sexual, and obvious, the media stereotype of Asian men is more subtle, making more of a statement in the LACK of Asian men. How many non-Asians pick up on that? How many Asians pick up on that ... if they weren't told? You didn't. I didn't. Who did?
(2) totally downplayed the remarks about Asian females in the Yale publication “Rumpus” (such as - “So just remember, in the words of one yeller feller, ‘Asian girls are like New Orleans levees; they only stay tight for so long.’ Ooh…too soon?”) - notwithstanding what Asian-American female students attending Yale, such as Christine Hung and Annette Wong, had to say about it.
What sp doesn’t seem to get that (a) most of us get humor/satire (and this isn’t it) and (b) racist/stereotypical humor/satire in the ABSENCE of any COUNTER portrayals only perpetuates the stereotypes that are purportedly made fun of.
(3) can’t even do simple math – sp thought that the disparity in IR relationships btwn US born/raised AMs and AFs was “inconsequential” since it was only a 10% disparity – when in actuality (and not sp’s delusional world), the disparity, for example, btwn 20% and 30% IR rates is 50%.
Btw, this ERROR is something that sp still hasn’t owned up to, and instead, sp switched his argument to by arguing that it (the 50% disparity rate) didn’t matter since there are several hundred thousand more Asian females than males in the US – a point that I had, a no. of times, skewered, but evidently (by his posts) he still has trouble grasping the major FLAW in his "argument."
1. This is not specific to Koreans, the one with the highest disparity percentage (you were trying to prove my Korean example wrong, remember?) And the reason why I specifically focus on the Koreans is simple: Koreans have the highest rates of outmarriage. Why? According to Proudasianamerican, while there are 67,075 2nd generation Korean women over the age of 15 as compared to [url=http://www.proudasianamerican.com/Statistics%20Folder/ACS/Tables/MS-M46-ACS.htm]71,036 2nd generation Korean men over age of 15 [url] and there are 102,098 1.5 generation Korean women over the age of 15 as compred to only 82,820 1.5 generation Korean men over age of 15.
10% is not a big difference? Funny. How does the 10% translate into the dating disparity you whine about?
Additionally, there a good reason why there are more Asian women who outmarry --there are signifigantly more Asian women in America than Asian men.
Uhh, most of us already know that the disparity in the IR rates for 1.5 gen Korean-Americans can be partly attributed to the high no. of predominantly female adoptees.
However, we see the same (roughly) 1:2 disparity among 2nd gen+ KAs (where there are actually MORE males than females) and among virtually all the other Asian ethnicities (whether 1.5 gen or 2nd+) where the pop. figures for males and females, ages 20-34, are roughly equal.
The one exception to this 1:2 disparity? Indians (desis) where the IR rates are roughly the same for males and females (about 20% for each).
As for the claim that there are significantly more AFs than AMs (approximately 430k more) – the overwhelming majority of them are OLDER AFs from the 1st gen. (ages 35-64) - not exactly the demographic that US born or raised Asian males, ages 25-34, are looking for.
I know this is hard for you sp – but THINK about it. In pretty MOST of the age/generation breakdowns, the nos. of AMs and AFs are about the SAME (with there actually usually being slightly more AMs) – the exceptions where females OUTNBUMBER males are in older 1st gen females, ages 35-64 (who fit the profile of war brides, mail-order brides, etc.) and for 1.5 gen females ages 30-44 (women who fit the profile of adoptees) – for 1.5 gen ages 20-29, there are slightly more males than females (as there would be w/o any additional factors such as adoptees).
Really, that whole “there are more AFs than AMs” is really a “red herring” argument based on sp's usual superficial and sloppy “analysis”.
And oh, btw, we don’t see the same disparity btwn Asian males and females with regard to IR marriages with Hispanics.
(I hardly call laying out the facts “whining”, esp. since I have NEVER “whined” about the IR disparity affecting me in any way – other than having “converted” a no. of AFs from their “I only date white guys” belief; after all, is Yul Kwon “whining” when he lays out the facts about the disparity in how Asian-American males, in particular, are portrayed in the media?)
Now, j&j is trying to tell you that the disparity is greater among the 1.5 and second generation, [b]and that there aren't more 1.5 and second generation Asian women, but that just isn't true. The disparity does exist among the 1.5 and second generation, but it 1. has lessened and 2. can be explained by the fact that there are more 1.5 and second generation Asian women.
This is wrong on soo many accounts. LOL!!! (Typical sloppy sp!!)
First of all, even with the whole Korean adoptee factor, there are actually MORE 1.5 gen males (574,894) than females (568,182), including MORE 1.5 gen males than females ages 20-29. However, there are more 1.5 gen females ages 30-34 (nearly all Korean).
It seems that sp has extrapolated the higher no. of females in the 1.5 gen Korean pop. to all the Asian ethnicities for the 1.5 gen. (tsk, tsk – very sloppy).
Second, in ALL of the age groups for 2nd+ gen – there are MORE males (760,859) than females (748,897).
I really wonder where sp comes up with the claim that there are more 2nd gen females than males other than his sheer stubbornness and irrationality (esp. since he had already cited that there are more 2nd gen Korean males than females)?
However, there are approximately 450k more 1st gen women than men.
Males / females
1st gen
2,534,354 / 2,987,328
1.5 gen
574,894 / 568,182
2nd
760,859 / 748,897
I know this is hard for you sp – but THINK about it, think real hard.
Why are there slightly more males than females in the 1.5 and 2nd + generations (as there should be in most pop. samples not counting the elderly), and in contrast, why is there a HUGE disparity btwn males and females in the 1st gen?
But the heart of the matter, something that j&j continually ignores because he has no answer, is that PERCEPTION of this dating disparity, as in your observations of there being so many more Asian women/white men couples than Asian men/white women couples, is caused by 1. the OVERALL Asian population and 2. people seeing what they want to see.
LOL!!! Sorry sp – but the only thing that continually IGNORE is your ability to accurately read, much less, comprehend applicable stats and you being so stubborn/foolish in “seeing only what you want to see” (I guess Dr. Le doesn’t know what he is talking about; and once again, with the stupid and erroneous “there are more AFs than AMs” argument).
And oh, btw, with all of these "extra" AFs running around in the US - why does the Census state that AMs, along with BFs, are the least likely to marry?
And to clarify, I have absolutely NO problem with IR dating (whether it be Asian female or male). However, I do have a problem when IR dating is manifestation of an underlying issue/problem of low self-esteem or confused identity, particularly when a white partner (for both Asian males and females) is seen as “better” as opposed to a non-white Hispanic, black or Asian partner.
monkeygone2
08-21-2007, 10:23 PM
did you just drink a pot of coffee?
this is way too cluttered for me to follow.
when you sum up 'asian american issues' this way, it ends up sounding like white noise.
AngryABCGirl
08-22-2007, 12:28 AM
if this turns out to be another idiotic IR rant thread it will be closed.
J&J2:
I don't doubt the sincereity of what you are trying to acheive. But I feel you and people like you do not take into account the very wide experiences of other Asians who either do not or only partially believe how you feel. I also believe that it is you yourself that is dangerously playing to the 'white standard.' I am willing to listen and understand what you have to say, but when you brush off my comments as inaccuracies or irrelevent, how can there be any kind of progress? For example, I am not simplying making up the fact that White people in Asia are looked down upon by the vast majority and white men are not considered the prince charmings you believe they are. I say that with years and years of experience living and visiting there. And this idea is not irrelevent because they are Asians like us and they are not brainwashed into a white ideal which you fear. And it is relevent because most Asians here are recent arrivals from Asia (within the last 3--35 years) and their experience ties directly with ours. Generally, I whatever disagreements we may have, it is very apparent that you are focusing very much on whatever negatives you percive is the more important aspects of the Asian experience. At the most basic, I want Asians to be proud of themselves, their roots, their culture, and everything else involved. I don't believe constantly worrying about Whites and going along with what they are percieved to believe is going to help this in any way. Actually, it will just make it worse.
and also, a word of advice: any legitmate political causes you may be trying to address is totally thrown out the window by rational people once you bring in the private dating habits of other adults and try to include this into your argument. If you don't believe me, ask the next person you see in real life.
i thought any IR threads would be closed regardless whether they were stupid or written by someone who's ON CRACK.
Dimeron
08-22-2007, 07:07 AM
I don't know why people are so harsh on him. From my understanding, he's trying to state that the main issue is lack of self-esteem and self hatred of one's "Asianness", regardless of gender. And it manifest in all kind of things, one of which is the in-famous "IR disparity", among other things, like high suicide rate and double eye-lid surgery.
I'm sure it doesn't apply to all Asians, but it certainly applies to many, and IMO is a perfectly legit topic.
Although he could have avoided the whole attacking on other people's view though, and focused less on IR since that horse has been beaten to a paste already.
AngryABCGirl
08-22-2007, 08:05 AM
I don't know why people are so harsh on him. From my understanding, he's trying to state that the main issue is lack of self-esteem and self hatred of one's "Asianness", regardless of gender. And it manifest in all kind of things, one of which is the in-famous "IR disparity", among other things, like high suicide rate and double eye-lid surgery.
I'm sure it doesn't apply to all Asians, but it certainly applies to many, and IMO is a perfectly legit topic.
Although he could have avoided the whole attacking on other people's view though, and focused less on IR since that horse has been beaten to a paste already.
I agree with you. I think the lack of self-esteem and lack of self-identity and ethnic pride contributes to many Asian American issues, which is why this thread has left open. If it drifts into IR as the main example for discussion then it's gonna disappear. There are many other issues in the communtiy that symptomic of this that deserved to be discussed other than IR.
they're mad because i interrupted their rant party with positivity. and they're also mad because they thought they had the world figured out with THEIR stereotypes of how Asians are supposed to act and think but here I with something else. and they're also mad I am not concerned with white people like they are. proof is their anger. (i'm not talking about everyone here, just notice the angry ones)
AngryABCGirl
08-22-2007, 09:22 AM
they're mad because i interrupted their rant party with positivity. and they're also mad because they thought they had the world figured out with THEIR stereotypes of how Asians are supposed to act and think but here I with something else. and they're also mad I am not concerned with white people like they are. proof is their anger. (i'm not talking about everyone here, just notice the angry ones)
Dude, quit acting like a baby, your posts sounds like a toddler pointing a finger at someone else.
You make some good points. Personally I'm sick of people complaining about things online and not doing anything about it and being overly concerned with assmiliating to White America and not doing anything to help community issues, but you act like such a little wanker so people don't take you seriously.
Amongst the starters of this board are lawyers who work on behalf of those less fortunate in the community and many of us who have worked for non-profits and volunteered in various tangible causes. You can online activist bait all you want, but I can tell by the way you talk you haven't seen very much action on the ground and are probably young and could learn a lot from a lot of the folks on this board as I have throughout the years.
So, what are you doing to help out and what are you plans with all that you're babbling about? What do you want to about this low sense of self-esteem in our community?
peta9
08-22-2007, 09:40 AM
they're mad because i interrupted their rant party with positivity. and they're also mad because they thought they had the world figured out with THEIR stereotypes of how Asians are supposed to act and think but here I with something else. and they're also mad I am not concerned with white people like they are. proof is their anger. (i'm not talking about everyone here, just notice the angry ones)
I think you are a bit unrealistic. Not caring doesn't equate to a better world for asians either. If you live in the west, people can end up hating themselves with asian stereotypes or the negative skewing of asian looks etc. Asian positivity is one thing that will help asians see themselves as separate entities, yes, not just abberations or mistakes of the extension of 'not being white'. But these issues do need to be addressed and even brought up. The second generation asians had no support system because everyone 'ignored' it, but while ignoring things they were being bombarded by western stereotypes, and the negative lens seeing through their eyes which resulted in a lot of confused identity and lower self-esteem to outright self-hatred.
rice cracker
08-22-2007, 09:54 AM
Maybe it's just me, but from the first couple of posts it looks like this thread began as a response to individual posters the OP had disagreed with in other threads.
I'm tempted to close this down just because of that, because I hate new threads started just to go over old material/bitchfights.
AngryABCGirl
08-22-2007, 10:20 AM
Maybe it's just me, but from the first couple of posts it looks like this thread began as a response to individual posters the OP had disagreed with in other threads.
I'm tempted to close this down just because of that, because I hate new threads started just to go over old material/bitchfights.
Sorry, I didn't even read through the entire jumbled mess because it was making my eyes hurt and just read some of the responses. Do what you deem appropiate. :biggrin:
I think you are a bit unrealistic. Not caring doesn't equate to a better world for asians either. If you live in the west, people can end up hating themselves with asian stereotypes or the negative skewing of asian looks etc. Asian positivity is one thing that will help asians see themselves as separate entities, yes, not just abberations or mistakes of the extension of 'not being white'. But these issues do need to be addressed and even brought up. The second generation asians had no support system because everyone 'ignored' it, but while ignoring things they were being bombarded by western stereotypes, and the negative lens seeing through their eyes which resulted in a lot of confused identity and lower self-esteem to outright self-hatred.
I say it can be fixed by encouraging Asians to be proud of their Asian roots just like the Blacks with their black pride stuff. Instead of focusing on how whites see us or about 'sellouts,' focus on Asian culture, and Asian everything. Asian Asian Asian, that's how you get Asians with low self esteem to fix themselves. Others talk about "assimilation" and acceptance. if you think about "assimliation" and acceptance means to give up your Asian roots, whether wholely or in part. there is nothing wrong with being an American or Canadian national with Asian roots.
rice cracker
08-22-2007, 11:18 AM
Sorry, I didn't even read through the entire jumbled mess because it was making my eyes hurt and just read some of the responses. Do what you deem appropiate. :biggrin:
For real, I just caught it on the scroll down. TL;DR.
peta9
08-22-2007, 11:44 AM
I say it can be fixed by encouraging Asians to be proud of their Asian roots just like the Blacks with their black pride stuff. Instead of focusing on how whites see us or about 'sellouts,' focus on Asian culture, and Asian everything. Asian Asian Asian, that's how you get Asians with low self esteem to fix themselves. Others talk about "assimilation" and acceptance. if you think about "assimliation" and acceptance means to give up your Asian roots, whether wholely or in part. there is nothing wrong with being an American or Canadian national with Asian roots.
I agree with this.
DragonKnight
08-22-2007, 04:10 PM
I say it can be fixed by encouraging Asians to be proud of their Asian roots just like the Blacks with their black pride stuff.
So instead of "Black is beautiful" we get to go with "Brown/Yellow/Pasty is beautiful"? Granted I'm looking forward to the Asian rendition of "Roots"...aka "Daikon Roots". We can trace it all the way back when enslaved "manilamen" jumped shipped from Spanish galleons to live in the Louisiana bayou to Chinese workers working in horrid conditions for the railroad. :wink:
oh no! we're pasty now???
^^ akane1 i'm sorry to have to say this to you but i find you incredibly bizarre. i don't really like using the ignore function but i find myself scratching my head at your posts and not in a positive way. so just to let you know, you'll be on ignore for me from now on, thanks
HA! YOU put ME on your ignore list???? omg. that is the most fucked up thing i've ever encountered.
oh wait. you won't see this. nm.
snailpoo
08-22-2007, 06:38 PM
Maybe it's just me, but from the first couple of posts it looks like this thread began as a response to individual posters the OP had disagreed with in other threads.
I'm tempted to close this down just because of that, because I hate new threads started just to go over old material/bitchfights.
...not other threads. Other forums. :biggrin:
I have a stalker. He'll lose an argument, not respond for a few months, and then reappear and snipe at me from a new thread about the same tired stuff... like here.
j&j,
What you continually miss, is that on the other forum, the population consisted primarliy of pre-teens who have no dating experience, have no work experience, and have no real world experience. Yet, on that other site, these kids focused so much on the racism that it became both an all-emcompassing and crushing burden that caused people to dispair and an all-purpose excuse that prevented people from trying. I objected to threads like "Asian men will never succeed in the work place" and "Asian men will never find anyone to love them" and other idiocy, and you... attack me.
Interesting, isn't it? You come here to argue identity issues and "LOW self esteem," and yet you attack my message to those kids that they should simply give up, and that racism isn't nearly as bad as they make it seem.
Oh, and two more things. On THIS site, people are older. You won't find the same whiners who post on every Friday and Saturday night about racism keeping them from finding anyone, and not notice the obvious. Also, on THIS site, people are a little more perceptive of proof and facts. Your empty ranting about statistics on the one issue that is continued from this board isn't going to do anything when I posted the census figures that last time that proved you wrong... right before you slinked off for a few months to recoup.
mzhsacramento
08-22-2007, 06:40 PM
^^ akane1 i'm sorry to have to say this to you but i find you incredibly bizarre. i don't really like using the ignore function but i find myself scratching my head at your posts and not in a positive way. so just to let you know, you'll be on ignore for me from now on, thanks
you're a baby.
snailpoo
08-23-2007, 06:10 AM
Interesting, isn't it? You come here to argue identity issues and "LOW self esteem," and yet you attack my message to those kids that they should NOT simply give up, and that racism isn't nearly as bad as they make it seem.
Yeah, me grammar good.
Napoleon Chynamite
08-23-2007, 12:20 PM
Holy shit. I read like the first two sentences of the initial post and then decided to go read Maddox instead. I was actually hoping there was finally some intelligent realization going on here, but alas, this thread should have been titled, "All issues re: the Asian man's dating woes are interconnected."
J&J2:
I don't doubt the sincereity of what you are trying to acheive. But I feel you and people like you do not take into account the very wide experiences of other Asians who either do not or only partially believe how you feel. I also believe that it is you yourself that is dangerously playing to the 'white standard.'
My friend, I’m afraid you’ve got it BACKWARDS.
The whole point of my post is that AFs with eating disorders, AFs who won’t date AMs, AMs who won’t date AFs, Asian-Americans who undergo plastic surgery, AAs who are embarrassed to be associated with other Asians/make fun of FOBs, etc. – are the one who have bought into the ‘white standard’.
I am willing to listen and understand what you have to say, but when you brush off my comments as inaccuracies or irrelevent, how can there be any kind of progress? For example, I am not simplying making up the fact that White people in Asia are looked down upon by the vast majority and white men are not considered the prince charmings you believe they are.
Uhh, I DIDN’T say that.
First of all, I, myself, have had long arguments with those who thought that whites were worshipped in Asia.
Second, I said that what you had stated was an overly SIMPLISTIC generalization (just as the views of those who think that whites are indeed worshipped, or blacks for that matter).
How whites are treated in Asia is much more complex than that (however, a white person in Japan is generally going to be treated better than a black/brown person or for that matter, an Asian person who isn’t Japanese).
I say that with years and years of experience living and visiting there. And this idea is not irrelevent because they are Asians like us and they are not brainwashed into a white ideal which you fear.
Once again, the situation in Asia and here in the States are two completely different situations – and what happens in Asia, frankly, has little bearing on how many Asian-Americans are impacted.
And it is relevent because most Asians here are recent arrivals from Asia (within the last 3--35 years) and their experience ties directly with ours.
Most of the people in the articles/videos I have referred to are likely immigrants or sons/daughters of immigrants and yet, they seem to be having these issues with regard to self-esteem and identity.
Generally, I whatever disagreements we may have, it is very apparent that you are focusing very much on whatever negatives you percive is the more important aspects of the Asian experience. At the most basic, I want Asians to be proud of themselves, their roots, their culture, and everything else involved. I don't believe constantly worrying about Whites and going along with what they are percieved to believe is going to help this in any way. Actually, it will just make it worse.
Uhh, that’s my whole point – there are too many young AAs who have issues with their self-esteem and identity due to what they see in the media and what their peers think.
and also, a word of advice: any legitmate political causes you may be trying to address is totally thrown out the window by rational people once you bring in the private dating habits of other adults and try to include this into your argument. If you don't believe me, ask the next person you see in real life.
Uhh, hello??
Didn’t I say it wasn’t about who people date but rather how they look upon/generalize/stereotype an entire group?
Would it be OK for an Asian girl (or guy) to stereotype BMs, gays, etc.?
[I say it can be fixed by encouraging Asians to be proud of their Asian roots just like the Blacks with their black pride stuff. Instead of focusing on how whites see us or about 'sellouts,' focus on Asian culture, and Asian everything. Asian Asian Asian, that's how you get Asians with low self esteem to fix themselves. Others talk about "assimilation" and acceptance. if you think about "assimliation" and acceptance means to give up your Asian roots, whether wholely or in part. there is nothing wrong with being an American or Canadian national with Asian roots.
The problem is that Asians are too divided by ethnicity, culture and language and it will take some time before there is something along the lines of “Asian-American culture” – not to mention that AAs with self-esteem or identity issues tend to come from “white suburbia” (not exactly the type who are going to focus on their Asian culture).
ahsingjai
08-29-2007, 10:13 PM
oh no! we're pasty now???
No, dirty. It's the summer. Winter we're pasty.
cloudzero
08-29-2007, 10:21 PM
^no skin cancer, or vitamin D deficiency for us!
...not other threads. Other forums.
I have a stalker. He'll lose an argument, not respond for a few months, and then reappear and snipe at me from a new thread about the same tired stuff... like here.
LOL!!! Poor snailpoo – only in his delusional world does his claim about me losing an argument to him hold up.
As for the “same tired stuff” – it’s only “tired” b/c you NEVER have any plausible response (not to mention any actual admittance of wrongdoing like your math).
Btw, you not being able to comprehend US Census data or intelligently apply the fact that there are more AFs than AMs in the US (pretty much all 1st gen and older than the 1.5 gen and 2nd+ gen of marrying age) is hardly the “same tired stuff”, but another MISLEADING fact you are peddling.
And I sincerely apologize if I sometimes get too busy to reply to your ridiculous claims immediately,
...j&j,
What you continually miss, is that on the other forum, the population consisted primarliy of pre-teens who have no dating experience, have no work experience, and have no real world experience. Yet, on that other site, these kids focused so much on the racism that it became both an all-emcompassing and crushing burden that caused people to dispair and an all-purpose excuse that prevented people from trying. I objected to threads like "Asian men will never succeed in the work place" and "Asian men will never find anyone to love them" and other idiocy, and you... attack me.
Once again, you TWIST the facts.
I have been just as hard on people who blame their woeful circumstances primarily or solely on being Asian, bash Asian culture or those who think that whites are better looking, etc.
And please… don’t play the innocent here. If anyone is guilty of personal attacks, it is YOU.
I have always discussed issues affecting the Asian-American community in an objective manner and NEVER had made any personal complaints (frankly, I don’t really have much to complain about) and yet, it was YOU who accused me of being the typical “lonely, loser, geeky AM who can’t get a date” (talk about stereotyping).
...Interesting, isn't it? You come here to argue identity issues and "LOW self esteem," and yet you attack my message to those kids that they should simply give up, and that racism isn't nearly as bad as they make it seem.
Uhh, sorry – but once again, you play with the facts.
Your empty ranting about statistics on the one issue that is continued from this board isn't going to do anything when I posted the census figures that last time that proved you wrong[/b]... right before you slinked off for a few months to recoup.
Funny how I actually PROVIDED “proof” and “facts” while pretty much everything you have ever stated has been conjecture (such as your RIDICULOUS claim that most people don’t know about AM stereotypes and yet are cognizant of AF stereotypes) – funny how you always characterize my relevant arguments backed by applicable facts as “ranting” whenever you have nothing to counter them.
Are you really this clueless? You never “proved” anything. I’m perfectly aware that there are some 430k more AFs in the US than AMs – THAT was NEVER the issue.
The issue (after you made the math blunder and switched arguments) is whether the IR disparity in the 1.5 or 2nd+ gen is material b/c there were more AFs than AMs.
You, looking at these issues superficially (as you usually do) stated that since there are more AFs than AMs – that the disparity didn’t matter.
However, you FAILED to notice that these the vast majority of these 430k “extra” AFs are 1st gen women who are older than 34 – not exactly matches for bachelor 1.5 and 2nd+ gen AMs ages 25-34.
Not to mention that for pretty much most age/generational groups – AMs outnumber AFs.
Think sp, think real hard – why do you think there are 400k+ more 1st gen AFs than AMs when pretty much every group (including 1st gen Asians who came to the US with their parents) has more AMs than AFs?
Plus, since there is such a “surplus” of AFs – why would AMs (along with BFs) have the LOWEST rates of marriage according to the US Census?
And why is there a disparity with whites when we don’t see one with Asian marriages to Hispanics or within the Indian community with whites?
I dare you to answer these FACTs.
And really, the issue isn’t how many AFs marry whites as opposed to Asians (if all AFs who marry WMs do so for the “right” reasons – I wouldn’t care if the majority of AFs marry whites), but a significant % marry white b/c of how they view WMs and AMs (same goes for a % of AMs).
Here’s the latest article in a non-Asian publication regarding how some AFs view AMs (coming from a non-Asian or more specifically, a non-AM, you can’t accuse this author of being a “whiner” - but then again, knowing your mo, you'd probably accuse the author of the article of being an ugly, bitter WF who is tired of seeing all the WM taken by AFs).
The single file
By Julia Allison
When discriminating taste extends to your own race.
“My mom wants me to have 100 percent Korean grandchildren,” explains Jane, a writer. “But at this rate, it doesn’t seem likely.”
While Jane has dated a few Asians in the past, she prefers tall, lanky hipsters—who are white. “My problem with most of the Korean guys I’ve dated is that they usually want to go out with girls who are just like their mothers. There’s nothing wrong with that, but I’m no neocon, and I won’t be slaving over your kimchi in the kitchen.” According to Jane, some of her exes have actually traveled to Asia to find wives, “a.k.a. domestic servants.”
While this statement clearly doesn’t define the practices of the entire race, Mary, 29, a teacher, does point to a schism: “There are real Asians, or recent immigrants who have significant ties to their culture, and then there are American Asians.” For her, she feels like it’s a difference that’s impossible to reconcile. “When my parents moved to the States, we moved into very white neighborhoods with upper-middle-class schools. There weren’t that many Asians in my day-to-day life, so I always had crushes on big, preppy white guys, because those were my friends, and that was who was around.”
Her reverse fetish is ironic, she admits, because when she travels to the Philippines to visit her family, the sight of small Asian girls and big white guys enrages her. “Like most of my Asian girlfriends, I am disgusted by fetishists.”
While Mary concedes that if she met “a lovely Asian boy who was raised ‘American’ like me” she’d be game to date him, she alludes to another significant strike against men of her race: “I’m going to hell for this, but when I see Asian men, they are usually either too effeminate or too stylized: Hong Kong slick, or like Harold and Kumar. It’s the media’s fault, but they’re just rarely presented as attractive.”
Hilary, who works in publishing, underlines Mary’s point: “Asian guys have a bad rap: They tend to be emasculated in the media and presented as either nerds or FOBs, if recognized at all.” Though she’s reticent to admit it, she assumes those stereotypes have influenced her dating choices. And, like Mary, she grew up in an affluent, predominately white neighborhood. “There were never Asian guys in my circle of friends, so when I went to college, I actually dated an Asian guy. I think it was primarily to prove a point to myself, though, since we weren’t compatible.”
“It bums me out to look at the wedding section of the Times and see the beautiful Asian girl wed to the dorkiest-looking white guy,” says Thompson, who works in the music industry and was raised in a small town in Alabama. “We were the only Asian family—so I know the feeling of growing up within an all-white community. And I’ve heard that used as an excuse from Asian girls as to why they only date white guys. But something doesn’t ring right, because it seems like it’s not about a lack of proximity to other Asians, but really about class—I don’t know why that’s so embarrassing to admit.” What really puzzles him, though, is when he hears his Asian friends claim that they don’t like Asian guys because they remind them of their fathers. “That’s a weird one: You know how many studies show that girls are drawn to guys just like their dad?”
http://www.timeout.com/newyork/artic...he-single-file
snailpoo
09-02-2007, 03:49 PM
LOL!!! Poor snailpoo – only in his delusional world does his claim about me losing an argument to him hold up.
As for the “same tired stuff” – it’s only “tired” b/c you NEVER have any plausible response (not to mention any actual admittance of wrongdoing like your math).
Hrm...
When you make assertions like this, you have to overcome two HUGE presumptions.
1. If what you claim is true, why do you never go back to the old threads? Is it because I've quoted you too many times to show how you kill your own argument, or is it the pages of people posting to agree with me and laugh at you?
2. If what you claim is true, why are you stalking me here? :biggrin:
Something tells me that it isn't the issue that you're obsessed about. It's me. And if you really did win those arguments, as you claim, you wouldn't have to follow me to claim otherwise. :biggrin:
j&j2, there will be no point going through all this nonesense you're going on about because you'll just come back with even more nonesensical explainations and conclusions about how Asians are these horribly oppressed miserable race being enslaved by the white boogie man. i'll leave you with one note: while you and people like you were looking for signs for your very stupid idea that Asians are this and that and whites are this and that, normal people like me were living our lives moving forward and getting real things done. the only person losing is you and people like you making up explainations for your personal failure in life with nonsenscial racial conclusions. you'll probably come up with some even more stupid ideas about this and that after this. here's some real advice, nobody believes you and nobody's listening. i'm done
My friend, I’m afraid you’ve got it BACKWARDS.
The whole point of my post is that AFs with eating disorders, AFs who won’t date AMs, AMs who won’t date AFs, Asian-Americans who undergo plastic surgery, AAs who are embarrassed to be associated with other Asians/make fun of FOBs, etc. – are the one who have bought into the ‘white standard’.
Uhh, I DIDN’T say that.
First of all, I, myself, have had long arguments with those who thought that whites were worshipped in Asia.
Second, I said that what you had stated was an overly SIMPLISTIC generalization (just as the views of those who think that whites are indeed worshipped, or blacks for that matter).
How whites are treated in Asia is much more complex than that (however, a white person in Japan is generally going to be treated better than a black/brown person or for that matter, an Asian person who isn’t Japanese).
Once again, the situation in Asia and here in the States are two completely different situations – and what happens in Asia, frankly, has little bearing on how many Asian-Americans are impacted.
Most of the people in the articles/videos I have referred to are likely immigrants or sons/daughters of immigrants and yet, they seem to be having these issues with regard to self-esteem and identity.
Uhh, that’s my whole point – there are too many young AAs who have issues with their self-esteem and identity due to what they see in the media and what their peers think.
Uhh, hello??
Didn’t I say it wasn’t about who people date but rather how they look upon/generalize/stereotype an entire group?
Would it be OK for an Asian girl (or guy) to stereotype BMs, gays, etc.?
[
The problem is that Asians are too divided by ethnicity, culture and language and it will take some time before there is something along the lines of “Asian-American culture” – not to mention that AAs with self-esteem or identity issues tend to come from “white suburbia” (not exactly the type who are going to focus on their Asian culture).
j&j2, there will be no point going through all this nonesense you're going on about because you'll just come back with even more nonesensical explainations and conclusions about how Asians are these horribly oppressed miserable race being enslaved by the white boogie man.
Uhh, did I say that? I don’t think so.
What I DID say is that there is a significant segment of the Asian-American pop. (one big enough were sociologists and medical professionals have taken note), which has issues with their self esteem and identity as Asians in America due to varying factors.
i'll leave you with one note: while you and people like you were looking for signs for your very stupid idea that Asians are this and that and whites are this and that, normal people like me were living our lives moving forward and getting real things done.
When did I ever say anything about “Asians all being like this” or “whites being like that”?
Talk about stupid – you need to work on your reading comprehension.
the only person losing is you and people like you making up explainations for your personal failure in life with nonsenscial racial conclusions. you'll probably come up with some even more stupid ideas about this and that after this. here's some real advice, nobody believes you and nobody's listening. i'm done
It seems you come from the same school of making ad hominen attacks as sp when you have no legitimate arguments (accusing any Asian MALE who discusses these issues as being a "loser"/"personal failure").
Are you talking about my “failures” of being an athlete in college, VP of my fraternity (btw, not an Asian fraternity), having dated models, etc.?
And what about “failures” like Daniel Dae Kim – who had to be proactive in making sure the story-line of his character in “Lost” didn’t veer too much into a stereotypical portrayal (btw, DDK wryly notes that it took him 11-12 yrs in the industry to get an on-screen kiss) or Yul Kwon – Stanford/Yale Law grad, fraternity member, etc. and in your eyes, a “personal failure” since he pretty much spends much of time publicly talking about how the media representation affects the Asian-American community (among other issues affecting the AA community), particularly AAMs (not that I give a rat’s arse about your asinine opinion – but I’d say I’m in pretty good company).
Or what about “the failure” QB Timmy Chang?
He joined each of those teams as a free agent after not being drafted, despite setting an NCAA passing yardage record (17,072) and throwing 117 touchdowns (second most) during five years at the University of Hawaii.
Chang's agent, Don Yee, wondered in an SI.com interview in 2005 why NFL teams weren't knocking at his client's door.
"I do think his ethnicity to some degree plays a part," Yee said at the time. "But there's no malice intended. It's almost a subconscious perception problem.
"There is a kind of perception that people have of Asians. There are still stereotypes that well-intending people still buy into."
Among the perceptions was that Chang was too short and too light. However, he's 6-foot-2 and weighs 207 pounds.
Maas is the same height and three pounds heavier.
Winnipeg Blue Bombers' Kevin Glenn, currently the league's top-rated quarterback, is 5-foot-10 and 189 pounds.
Or what about “the failure” Justin Lin who currently attends Harvard and plays for its BB team?
Jeremy S. Lin ’10 is a recruited basketball player, a member of the varsity team. He is also Asian-American. Since matriculating here, he’s discovered that these two facts are difficult for many Harvard students to accept together. “Some people don’t believe that I play basketball,” Lin says. “When people see me, they automatically assume I’m the worst on the team. They ask me if I only play when we’re already winning by a lot, things like that.”
Last year, Lin, as a frosh, was the leading scorer off the bench and will likely be a starter this upcoming season,
In addition, there were 24-25 AA males on Harvard varsity teams last year, including Harvard’s best hockey player Kevin Du (btw, Harvard’s best female hockey player was also Asian) and 3 guys on the FB team, including the starting RB for the upcoming season (who will be the 2nd starting RB of Asian ancestry for Harvard).
Sorry – but maybe you should actually COMPREHEND what I had written (and maybe get your head pulled out of your arse so you can actually be cognizant of some of these very real issues).
And next time - try bringing something concrete to the discussion, instead of pure conjecture.
Hrm...
When you make assertions like this, you have to overcome two HUGE presumptions.
1. If what you claim is true, why do you never go back to the old threads? Is it because I've quoted you too many times to show how you kill your own argument, or is it the pages of people posting to agree with me and laugh at you?
LMAO!!!
Same old, deluded sp – making accusations of others for things that YOU are GUILTY of.
Uhh, please – you never have “killed” any of my arguments and besides, I have addressed ALL of your weak arguments in subsequent posts in new threads (is there something special about continuing these arguments on the same old threads?) such as skewering your claim that the LOWER incomes for AMs than WMs of the SAME education level didn’t matter much since a significant percentage of AMs older the age of 30 have foreign degrees by pointing out that AFs older the age of 30 DIDN’T have lower incomes (in fact, for some age groups, it was HIGHER) in comparison to their female counterparts – even though a significant % of AFs older than the age of 30 have foreign degrees (besides, why should a degree from Japan, China, Korea or India be considered “less” than a degree from Europe?).
Hmm, funny how I haven’t seen you ever face up to your BAD math; silly assertion that average Americans are UNAWARE of AM stereotypes and yet, somehow, are cognizant of AF stereotypes; and numerous other blunders.
Funny how I’ve addressed all of your weak arguments and yet, you miraculously seem to have overlooked or forgotten about it.
Such like in your LATEST post – where you DON’T even mention how I had shown that your argument about there being more AFs in the US than AMs was a spurious one due to the demographics (generation and age) of the pop. of AFs which does exceed that of AMs.
As is so TYPICAL, you’re so DELUDED, that you constantly accuse me of things that YOU are GUILTY of doing (even after I point them out to you repeatedly) – such as you accusing me of not being able to read statistics correctly (gee, I wonder who here couldn’t read the Census statistics correctly, and more importantly, apply them to the issue at hand in an analytical and logical manner?) – and this wasn’t the 1st time I had pointed these stats out to you (but you living in that delusional world of yours…).
I mean seriously, the fact that you extrapolated the fact that there are more 1.5 gen Korean-AM females (for only certain age groups, mind you) than males to mean that the same holds true for all the other Asian ethnicities, never mind different generations (this part was really puzzling considering that the nos. you had cited indicated that there were MORE 2nd gen+ Korean males than females) – shows how much you are off the deep end and how superficial and frankly, laughable, your “analysis” is.
And sorry, but aside from a few fools, no one is agreeing with you.
Btw, you kept using the same little quote from APB (out of context, I may add) to disingenuously attack what I had stated (even tho, I had already EXPLAINED the difference to you) – but you kept going on and on about that one quote (in your usual superficial way of studying things).
Only when I had pointed out that I had previously discussed these issues with APB and that he had recently confirmed to me that I was correct in understanding his position – did you MYSTERIOUSLY (but typically, as it is your MO) drop the discussion and never admitted your error.
2. If what you claim is true, why are you stalking me here?
Uhh, who’s the one replying to my posts here – mind you, with no legitimate rebuttals?
Shocking!!! Again, NO MENTION of the absolute BLUNDERS you have made.
Something tells me that it isn't the issue that you're obsessed about. It's me. And if you really did win those arguments, as you claim, you wouldn't have to follow me to claim otherwise.
Oh please – you are just as “obsessed” as I am (once again you make accusations that you are GUILTY of) since you keep replying to every post and continuing to make untrue, and gross generalizations about me.
Plus, I wouldn’t consider DEBUNKING your superficial and erroneous claims as “stalking” (that’s doing a PUBLIC SERVICE) – you, otoh, with only hallow repeated claims of “having killed me” in these arguments (instead of real facts and logical application of the facts) and spurious accusations of me being a “typical AM loser” (talk about stereotyping), are doing the real stalking.
As for “winning” the arguments – you seem AWFULLY SILENT about the argument we just had on this thread considering that you had “won” it (in your deluded head).
What little credibility you had was LONG GONE (it seems the only real talent you have is an over-judicious use of smiley icons).
j&j2 dudey you are no yul kwon or daniel dae kim. you are a 34 year old virgin nerd trying to come up with racial excuses for your loserhood. here's a hint, even if you were white you still wouldn't get those hot chicks you claim "won't date AM's" (and people like you)
snailpoo
09-06-2007, 05:57 PM
I'm awfully silent about your argument here because it IS THE SAME argument you're repasting from the other site.
Seriously, I don't know whether to laugh at you anymore or just pity you.
It seems you come from the same school of making ad hominen attacks as sp when you have no legitimate arguments (accusing any Asian MALE who discusses these issues as being a "loser"/"personal failure").
Sigh. How many times do I have to explain this to you? I called you a whiner, not a loser. A whiner is someone who whines about the problems and does nothing about it. What is it that you've done again?
The ironic thing is that if you had posted those whines HERE, I wouldn't have been so vocal about it. The other board was populated by teenagers, who literally used those whines to become carticatures of the negative Asian male stereotype. Do you want to tell me how guys who post about dating disparities EVERY Friday and Saturday night don't have issues other than racism? Do you want to tell me how whining about the dating disparity on the internet EVERY weekend (WHILE blaming and stereotyping AFs) does anything to help change the negative Asian male stereotype?
It's interesting that I objected to the portrayal of Asian men as helpless weaklings oppressed under some crushing racism, and you attacked me. It's interesting that you're the one attacking my message to these kids that things are not as bad as the whiners claim.
HERE, on this board where the posters are older and are CAPABLE of action, I wouldn't have objected to your nihilist attitude nearly as much. Your whining might at least serve some good for someone else to do something, since you've proven that you've done ... nothing but whine.
But as for credibility, let's examine your post:
LMAO!!!
Same old, deluded sp – making accusations of others for things that YOU are GUILTY of.
Hrm...
Let's start with your accusation of me being delusional.
ME:
1. If what you claim is true, why do you never go back to the old threads? Is it because I've quoted you too many times to show how you kill your own argument, or is it the pages of people posting to agree with me and laugh at you?
YOU:
And sorry, but aside from a few fools, no one is agreeing with you.
So who is more likely to be delusional about winning: the one people say won, or the one who claims that everyone must be fools? :wink:
And then theres:
Plus, I wouldn’t consider DEBUNKING your superficial and erroneous claims as “stalking” (that’s doing a PUBLIC SERVICE) – you, otoh, with only hallow repeated claims of “having killed me” in these arguments (instead of real facts and logical application of the facts) and spurious accusations of me being a “typical AM loser” (talk about stereotyping), are doing the real stalking.
So who is more likely to be the one doing the stalking me, who joined this board long before you, or you, whotransplanted my quotes FROM A DIFFERENT BOARD out of the blue in order to start your usual tactic of fleeing from the original thread where you got your ass kicked to start up with me in a new thread (or in this case a NEW BOARD)? (http://forums.yellowworld.org/showpost.php?p=520436&postcount=3) :wink:
Seriously, dude, IF you won those arguments as you claim, why do you NEVER RETURN TO THE SAME THREAD?
Silly j&j2, you're always a bit too slow. The wheel is turning but the hampster is dead.
didn't know it was the snailpoo and j&j2 hour. add epmd and y'all got a threesome.
freakin' sweet. can't you guys bitchfight over PMs?? i got mad love for you snail, but THIS? seriously?
cloudzero
09-06-2007, 06:16 PM
ah the never ending competition between snailpoo and j&j2
this isn't a fight so remember to shake hands when its done
kitkatbee
09-06-2007, 07:17 PM
I say hug!! huuggggg!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
snailpoo
09-06-2007, 07:45 PM
didn't know it was the snailpoo and j&j2 hour. add epmd and y'all got a threesome.
freakin' sweet. can't you guys bitchfight over PMs?? i got mad love for you snail, but THIS? seriously?
Eh. I used to respond to this guy because it was funny watching him sputter around. His following me around to a completely different messageboard is a little creepy though.
I've never had a stalker before, so I don't exactly know how to deal with him. :biggrin:
Napoleon Chynamite
09-06-2007, 08:19 PM
^ I'd be flattered.
^but..but...that's not what you said to me!! *cries*
j&j2 dudey you are no yul kwon or daniel dae kim. you are a 34 year old virgin nerd trying to come up with racial excuses for your loserhood. here's a hint, even if you were white you still wouldn't get those hot chicks you claim "won't date AM's" (and people like you)
How predictable - don't have any legitimate arguments so you resort to ad hominem attacks.
Why don't you grow up some?
Btw, you are wrong on all accounts (and physically, neither Yul or Daniel have anything on me).
Eh. I used to respond to this guy because it was funny watching him sputter around. His following me around to a completely different messageboard is a little creepy though.
I've never had a stalker before, so I don't exactly know how to deal with him.
LOL!!! Really, what delusional world do you live in?
The only one who has been "sputtering" is you.
Hello? Weren't you the one who just FUMBLED the US Census stats and how they actually applied to the IR disparity (400+k middle-aged 1st gen Asian women as an argument doesn't quite cut it with respect to marriages among US born/raised AA between the ages of 25-34); and this, btw, was your 2nd alternative argument since your poor math skills made you totally undercalculate the actual disparity in marriages among US born/raised AAs).
Typical DENIAL and ad hominem attacks by sp - why don't you actually have an intelligent and factually-based counter-argument to any of the points I have made for once (or at least admit your error if your huge and undeserved ego allows you to)?
Btw, I have been reading this site long before your idiotic posts compelled me to correct your false assertions.
I'm awfully silent about your argument here because it IS THE SAME argument you're repasting from the other site.
Seriously, I don't know whether to laugh at you anymore or just pity you.
LOL!! Pity me all you want (you, otoh, are beyond pity).
And yeah, they are the SAME arguments (actually, quite a bit of them) – funny how you have NEVER been able to debunk them.
And speaking about the SAME arguments (other than you incessantly repeating over and over how you have “killed” me despite evidence to the contrary) – weren’t you the one who just posted on about how the IR marriage disparity among the US born/raised generations didn’t matter b/c there were sooo many more AFs than AMs?
And despite me already having pointed out to you (on the other site) that 400k+ “additional” females are middle-aged 1st genwomen (not exactly “marriage material” for US born/raised AMs btwn the ages of 25-34) and that there are actually MORE 2nd+ gen AA males than females AND 1.5 gen males than females – YOU still resorted to making the SAME FALSE claims and arguments here.
Talk about repeating the same arguments (at least mine are factually correct) – not to mention your pernicious habit of accusing others of things that YOU are GUILTY of (who here exactly couldn’t read/comprehend US Census data – much less apply them logically to the issue at hand?).
People – don’t expect sp to own up to this gross error to any of the other multiple errors sp has made (instead, he is just going to repeat over and over again how he has “killed me” – despite actual evidence to the contrary).
Sigh. How many times do I have to explain this to you? I called you a whiner, not a loser. A whiner is someone who whines about the problems and does nothing about it. What is it that you've done again?
Not surprisingly, you memory is shot (or do you just conveniently “forget” everything that doesn’t support your ever changing POV?).
Yes, you have repeatedly called me a “whiner” (despite the fact that I have repeatedly informed you that I have never “whined” about anything personally), but you also characterized me as “the typical Asian loser who can’t get a date”.
And oh, I have already posted (a no. of times) the things that I have done – in addition to pointing out that raising AWARENESS of these issues is a primary need within the AA community (lets’ face it – the AA community is divided and rather apathetic – which is why it is often referred to as the “silent minority”) – which, btw, is not much different from what Yul Kwon is doing.
sp’s arguments changes all the time – he says on the one hand that things aren’t bad at all – and when I pointed out that if things aren’t bad enough to advocate awareness/change (such as in media representation), why [then] is Yul Kwon “wasting” his time going around speaking about the need for better media representation? – only SILENCE from sp and a lame argument about how Yul is actually doing something (uhh, yeah, Yul is raising AWARENESS, and why give Yul kudos for that since Yul is raising awareness about a problem which in sp’s view is not a problem at all – “the typical American is unaware of AM stereotypes”; and mind you, sp, otoh, ludicrously claims that the typical American is aware of AF stereotypes).
The ironic thing is that if you had posted those whines HERE, I wouldn't have been so vocal about it. The other board was populated by teenagers, who literally used those whines to become carticatures of the negative Asian male stereotype. Do you want to tell me how guys who post about dating disparities EVERY Friday and Saturday night don't have issues other than racism? Do you want to tell me how whining about the dating disparity on the internet EVERY weekend (WHILE blaming and stereotyping AFs) does anything to help change the negative Asian male stereotype?
Sheeze!!! Didn’t I already explain the DIFFERENCE to you numerous times?
It's interesting that I objected to the portrayal of Asian men as helpless weaklings oppressed under some crushing racism, and you attacked me. It's interesting that you're the one attacking my message to these kids that things are not as bad as the whiners claim.
Uhh no – that is NOT what you have stated (stop trying to re-characterize your posts as you typicall do).
For pretty much every AA issue (including the one where a Yale magazine printed a crude joke about AF vaginas) you have “poo-pooed” them and stated that they aren’t that serious or that big of a deal.
And while I (nor anyone else) is saying that these issues make it impossible for AA to succeed, they nevertheless are legitimate issues which need to be addressed (would you say that a significant % of AFs in the US having body-image and face-image issues, evidenced by the no. of eating disorders and cosmetic surgery, is something which shouldn’t be raised or addressed?).
And btw, unlike you who resorted to accusing me of being a “typical loser AM who can’t get a date” – I have “attacked” your claims (such as your ludicrous claim that people are NOT aware of AM stereotypes and yet are aware of AF stereotypes) – and only b/c you so are delusional in your claims (including how you have “won”) have I resorted to making characterizations of your intelligence (after all, I have plenty of evidence to back them up).
And uhh, sorry – but I have many times also made posts “correcting” the ludicrous claims that the “whiners” make (such as “no WF would ever find an AM attractive”; “all AFs want WMs”; “AMs are less attractive than WMs”; “AMs are weak”; “AMs are feminine”, etc.) - not to mention making numerous posts about attractive AM actors, Asian-American athletes, Asian males in the military, etc.
The problem you have is that you continue to not be able to make the DISTINCTION btwn discussions of legitimate AA issues and the moanings of some immature and rather sad individuals (despite me pointing this distinction out to you numerous times – the reason why I have to repeat myself so often is that you keep coming back with the SAME stupid arguments time and time again – even after I had pointed out the diff. to you (this whole “point” here is a repeat of what I had already replied in a previous post of yours raising the same weak arguments).
HERE, on this board where the posters are older and are CAPABLE of action, I wouldn't have objected to your nihilist attitude nearly as much. Your whining might at least serve some good for someone else to do something, since you've proven that you've done ... nothing but whine.
Yeah, and on this board – the “older and wiser” posters (this characterization, btw, does not include you) do discuss these issues intelligently (well, for the most part) and they totally see into your “poo-pooing” every single AA issue.
So who is more likely to be the one doing the stalking me, who joined this board long before you, or you, whotransplanted my quotes FROM A DIFFERENT BOARD out of the blue in order to start your usual tactic of fleeing from the original thread where you got your ass kicked to start up with me in a new thread (or in this case a NEW BOARD)?
Uhh, that's b/c you make the same LAME, SUPERFICIAL and ERRONEOUS claims there as you do here.
LOL!! How predictable!!
Once again with the "ass-kicked" claim (with no specifics backing your claim).
Uhh, who was the one who just made the huge and rather inexplicable blunder about the actual nos. of 1.5 gen and 2nd+ gen Asian females in comparison to that of males – and how the fact the 400k+ older 1st gen Asian females have no bearing on the disparity rates among the 1.5 and 2nd+ gens?
Seriously, dude, IF you won those arguments as you claim, why do you NEVER RETURN TO THE SAME THREAD?
Seriously dude – didn’t I just state that I rebutted every one of your silly claims in subsequent posts in new threads (just b/c they are in a new or different thread – doesn’t mean they are any less valid)?
Funny how I actually state numerous bone-headed claims you have made on this thread (and others) while you, otoh, (1) haven’t stated any erroneous claims that I have made (other than you accusing me of not being able to read US Census stats – and we ALL know why you have been awfully silent about that), (2) haven’t defended or been able to defend your ludicrous claims (other than repeating that I’m bringing up old points) and (3) just make the same old attacks on my character, etc. since you don’t actually have any valid points on any of the issues at hand (you are nothing but a hollow shill).
Silly j&j2, you're always a bit too slow. The wheel is turning but the hampster is dead.
Yeah, at times I can act a bit silly – SLOW, otoh is ALL YOU! LOL!
You can’t even recognize that your arguments are devoid of any substance and you still think your claims aren’t full of the huge holes that they actually are.
Banana
09-07-2007, 05:33 PM
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1069/1110563575_1bcf365a79.jpg
Sure glad I saved that picture.
AngryABCGirl
09-07-2007, 05:45 PM
so, how was work today for everyone?
Napoleon Chynamite
09-07-2007, 07:11 PM
j&j2, you're from MM aren't you...keep up the good work empowering the Asian man. I tell you, nothing makes me feel more proud of being Asian than reading one of your posts.
Banana
09-07-2007, 08:21 PM
He can't be.
His grammer is correct and he uses punctuation.
applehead
09-07-2007, 08:54 PM
He can't be.
His grammer is correct and he uses punctuation.
but his over use of the bold function throws me off
snailpoo what are you doing?
You're too intelligent and high class to
bother arguing with that.
Adaon
09-08-2007, 04:40 AM
Mmm. It's Friday. I don't feel like reading through all the long and weird long posts with the intermittent bold word play. Someone give me 2-3 lines and sum up the J&J2/Snailpoo/EMPD's points?
Statistics brings me back to a quote someone put up from one of our other "former" posters?
"Any statistics I might be lacking can be googled."
Ugh. I hated statistics class. I'm not stepping into that whole troublesome aspect. Someone give me a layman's version of this thread, without the dictionary aided beatings.
Banana
09-08-2007, 06:26 AM
I'm not sure.
I could have spent the time reading the whole thread or I could enjoy myself by adding my normal and pointless quips that have nothing to do with the subject matter at all.
The idea of reading the whole thing doesn't interest me but the last few posts have something to do with "Asian guys are F'd in the A because Asian women don't want us and we're double-screwed because there are actually more Asian men than women in America."
What confirmed it for me was that this was the issue in the last 2 pages was because of Napoleon Chynamite's comment.
snailpoo
09-08-2007, 09:30 AM
but his over use of the bold function throws me off
snailpoo what are you doing?
You're too intelligent and high class to
bother arguing with that.
On the other site, there was a purpose --it's disappointing to see young AM posters buy into the dejected hopelessness. I doubt I really changed very many people's minds, but at least it was something.
Here, where people are older and more intelligent, you're right --there really isn't a point arguing with him.
Mmm. It's Friday. I don't feel like reading through all the long and weird long posts with the intermittent bold word play. Someone give me 2-3 lines and sum up the J&J2/Snailpoo/EMPD's points?
There's no points or argument from me here, just questions as to the motive behind J&J2's stalking and posting his old points from a different thread on a different messageboard.
Banana
09-08-2007, 09:39 AM
When I was out jogging today, I saw an Asian guy with a hot blond girl and their child. In fact, she was 1-2 inches taller than he was.
That brings the ratio to 1:30 so, yea, we're boned!
Hahaha.
cloudzero
09-08-2007, 11:38 AM
so we're trying to close this thread aren't we
pfft.
close? why bother? who DOESN'T want to see AND smell the rotting corpse of a horse who's been beaten to death more times than i have fingers on my hand? yes....inhale the foul stench of death, people. it's your future.
Here, where people are older and more intelligent, you're right --there really isn't a point arguing with him.
LOL!
As opposed to a guy (i.e. – snailpoo) who insists that the average American is unaware of negative AM stereotypes and yet, is cognizant of negative AF stereotypes? Yeah, THAT makes SOOO much SENSE!
Not to mention a guy who dismissed criticism of a Yale student magazine making jokes about Asian women genitalia (that, btw, really locks in step with his "concern" for the problem of AF stereotypes).
There's no points or argument from me here, just questions as to the motive behind J&J2's stalking and posting his old points from a different thread on a different messageboard.
Hmm, let’s see who was the one who kept on posting his “old points” (mind you, this is even after I had already refuted these very same points sp brings up time and time again)?
Here are some of your tired and erroneous points you bring up in the merged thread about IR relationships/disparity.
Add in the fact that there are more Asian women than Asian men...
Except there are 116,036 more Korean females in America than Korean males, a signifigant number, seeing as how there are only 480,418 Korean males in America (and that gap is even greater if you see that there are more Korean boys that Korean girls, which means that there are a heck of a lot more Korean women then there are Korean men). What did you expect over one hundred thousand Korean-American women to do? Raise cats?
Snailpoo keeps bringing up the whole there are more AFs than AMs in the US – in order to “poo-poo” the disparity in IR marriages (which, btw, does NOT mean that things are hopeless for AMs) whereupon other posters here, like lethal, have bought into sp’s misinformation.
And this is despite the fact that I had already previously refuted sp’s assertion a no. of times – pointing out to him that there are actually more 1.5 and 2nd+ gen AMs than AFs in the US and that the 400k+ “extra” AFs are middle-aged 1st gen females (not exactly prime marriage material for 1.5 and 2nd+ gen males btwn the ages of 25-34) – giving him the link to the Census stats from the ProudAsianAmerican site.
And yet, Snailpoo continued to argue his old and erroneous points, even after I repeated my refutations here on that thread.
Since when does simply being under the age of 21 make someone 1.5 or 2nd+ gen?
The no. of Asian-American males and females who are 1.5 gen (that's those who came to the US before the age of 14, btw) is roughly the SAME (according to the 2000 Census, there were 137,887 1.5 and 2nd+ gen Korean females and 122,369 1.5 and 2nd+ gen Korean females - hardly a big difference, with the bulk being the difference in the 1.5 gen due to adoptees; and overall, there are actually MORE 1.5 AND 2nd+ gen Asian males than females). (Bolded for irony.)
Sticking with our example of Koreans, 48% of the women raised here are married to whites, but so are 23% of the men. Again, are there enough men?
1. This is not specific to Koreans, the one with the highest disparity percentage (you were trying to prove my Korean example wrong, remember?) And the reason why I specifically focus on the Koreans is simple: Koreans have the highest rates of outmarriage. Why? According to Proudasianamerican, while there are [b]67,075 2nd generation Korean women over the age of 15 as compared to [url=http://www.proudasianamerican.com/Statistics%20Folder/ACS/Tables/MS-M46-ACS.htm]71,036 2nd generation Korean men over age of 15 [url] and there are 102,098 1.5 generation Korean women over the age of 15 as compred to only 82,820 1.5 generation Korean men over age of 15.
10% is not a big difference? Funny. How does the 10% translate into the dating disparity you whine about?
Snailpoo likes to accuse others of not being able to read stats correctly, but he couldn’t even read/comprehend basic stats from the proudasianamerican site and instead, ridiculously extrapolates the stats for Korean-Americans for all Asian ethnicities (which doesn’t work since Korean-Americans are the ONLY group with a gender imbalance in the 1.5 gen due to adoptees).
Note how sp even cites the Korean figures for the 2nd+ gen (71,036 males; 67,075 females) – and totally misses the fact that there are more males than females.
Snailpoo likes to repeatedly claim how he has “killed me in arguments” or that I keep bringing up old arguments (btw, why haven’t you ever refuted any of my “old arguments”) – when the proof is in the pudding.
Even after I had exposed his ridiculous butchering of the Census stats here, sp continues to have the gall to assert how he repeatedly wins these “arguments” – totally overlooking his ERROR (once again).
And mind you, I had already, a no. of times pointed out the Census stats to sp – and yet, HE is the one who keeps coming to Asian-oriented sites spouting misinformation – or in his words “same old arguments” (at least mine are FACTUALLY correct).
j&j2, you're from MM aren't you...keep up the good work empowering the Asian man. I tell you, nothing makes me feel more proud of being Asian than reading one of your posts.
Uhh, sorry, but the people over there are FREAKS.
cloudzero
09-13-2007, 03:47 PM
yea j&j2, i agree, AMM are screwed, now what?
yea j&j2, i agree, AMM are screwed, now what?
Who ever said that?
snailpoo
09-13-2007, 05:50 PM
http://madsenblog.dk/billeder/crybaby.jpg
Dude, seriously, stop obsessing about me. Breathe, step away from the computer, and try to find some semblence of personal value away from arguing on messageboards. This can't be healthy. If finally winning one matters this much to you that you have to continually start new threads (or follow me across messageboards) and pretend you didn't consistently get your ass kicked, we can say you finally won one here.
:wink:
cloudzero
09-13-2007, 06:27 PM
Who ever said that?
it seems like you are suggesting that with your stats
USCTrojanzNo1
09-13-2007, 06:35 PM
So ... what about Indians? Are they interconnected to the rest of the Asian American cause?
bismarck
09-13-2007, 09:23 PM
I stopped reading midway through the second page. There were a lot of accusations and personal gripes, and I didn't feel like the next few pages would be any more clear.
But anyways, I can definitely see how Asian women have the highest suicide rate in the US. I was raised with a lot of extreme expectations to be perfect, in my grades, my looks, my social life, etc. I pushed myself way too hard, and couldn't handle the imperfections. I was really depressed for a long while, my high A's turned into C's and D's (and one F), which as you can imagine was even more difficult for me to handle. Why is it that so many Asian Americans are so demanding? I don't think any other demographic is so extreme, by race or income or whatever.
About the "unsexy" AM, I don't see that where I live. There aren't that many Asians in Southern Ohio, but our Asian communities seem to be pretty strong I guess. Most of the Asian girls want to date Asian guys, probably for a variety of reasons, even when they have the option of dating white/black/mexican/whatever. I keep hearing about girls crushing on my little brother all the time. Looks-wise, I prefer Asian guys, but I will date guys of other races.
bismarck
09-13-2007, 09:27 PM
So ... what about Indians? Are they interconnected to the rest of the Asian American cause?
You know the answer to this, right? (hint: NO)
It's always seemed to me that "Asian" in America means the stereotypical slanty-eyed, straight black hair person. It's not very accurate, but sometimes words and terms aren't. Although lots of Indians are just as uptight as their, uh, Asian counterparts.
AngryABCGirl
09-13-2007, 09:29 PM
So ... what about Indians? Are they interconnected to the rest of the Asian American cause?
Demographically and politically speaking, yes.
What most people deem racially, no.
Dude, seriously, stop obsessing about me. Breathe, step away from the computer, and try to find some semblence of personal value away from arguing on messageboards. This can't be healthy. If finally winning one matters this much to you that you have to continually start new threads (or follow me across messageboards) and pretend you didn't consistently get your ass kicked, we can say you finally won one here.
LOL! Typical insubstantial FLUFF from sp (shocking!).
First of all, as I already previously stated (again, your reading comprehension problem) – I didn’t follow you here (how could I unless you someone told me you were here – duh!) and I've actually have been reading this site for years.
I never bothered to post before b/c there usually was someone (or 2 or 3 posters) who ended up posting what I would have stated on various topics – that is UNTIL you started misleading people here with your specious arguments (besides, my first few posts here had nothing to do with your asinine assertions).
And LOL!! – again with the “ass-kicking” comment w/o anything substantial to back it up (how predictable!).
Hmm – how come I manage to bring up and skewer some of your various retarded arguments and yet, you haven’t been able to do the same?
Talk is cheap.
And as for me “winning one here” (omg, you actually admitted to it! For once.), uhhh, I had already previously won this argument “there” (which makes you bringing up the same specious arguments here even more mind-numbing – hence your delusions of grandeur).
As for your little “lecture” – look in mirror buddy (again with the accusations that you are GUILT of; at least what I post is factually correct).
it seems like you are suggesting that with your stats
The stats are simply what they are – you interpreting them to mean that “AMs are screwed” is YOUR take.
For instance, about a third of American adults are considered obese and almost 66% are considered fat – does that mean we, as Americans, are all doomed to such a fate? Of course not.
However, it does suggest that for those of us who don’t want to be included in such stats – that we have to “work harder” than the typical American (meaning eating right, exercising, etc.) unless one happens to be genetically blessed.
Anyone who claims that AMs are on an even playing field is in DENIAL (there are plenty of stats, studies, articles, etc.) – however, it just means that AMs just have to work HARDER than others to achieve the same level of success.
Same with AFs who suffer from eating disorders or have low self-esteem due to “not having the right facial features.” Are all AFs doomed to such a fate? Of course not – but it is a large enough phenomenon that physicians and sociologists have taken note of these problems within the AAF pop., and it is certainly an issue that the AA community should address, which leads back to the whole underlying self-esteem and identity problem within a significant segment of the AA pop. (which manifests in any number of ways, including eating disorders, opting for plastic surgery for the wrong reasons and yes – the IR disparity).
snailpoo
09-14-2007, 06:39 AM
http://www.hurleytom.com/images/DeadHorse400x231.jpg
Only you can beat a dead horse and still lose. That takes talent.
Only the loser would stay away from the original thread, and start the exact same dead crap on a different thread (or in your case, a different messageboard) and pretend.
And, j&j, the population of this board isn't pre-teens sitting in their mothers' basements whining about being lonely.
Only you can beat a dead horse and still lose. That takes talent.
Only the loser would stay away from the original thread, and start the exact same dead crap on a different thread (or in your case, a different messageboard) and pretend.
And, j&j, the population of this board isn't pre-teens sitting in their mothers' basements whining about being lonely.
LOL!
Couldn’t stay away, huh?
Like I said, look in the mirror buddy.
Boohoo!! snailpoo called me a loser (again).
Nice to see you resorting (again) to ad hominem attacks, since you can't actually argue the issues (and by that, I mean backing them up w/ substance instead of conjecture).
Talk about “beating a dead horse”!! (Note the SAME unsubstantiated claims again – all of which, btw, which I had already previously refuted – which, of course, sp glosses over or conveniently forgets about).
Btw, is this the same “dead crap” that you were peddling here (which I had to refute again)? Yeah, like you have any credibility (I think that most people here are mature and intelligent enough to see you through your BS). LOL!
And oh, nice to see that you have “graduated” from overusing emoticons to using lame pics (in lieu of actually backing up any of your ludicrous assertions).
cloudzero
09-14-2007, 02:43 PM
hey hey hey keep it above the belt you two
hey hey hey keep it above the belt you two
Who's the one throwing out accusations of being a "loser"?
And as to the generally mature and intelligent posters on this board, based on the majority of the posts (esp. in the arts and entertainment section), I would surmise that most wouldn't -
(1) agree with sp's assertion that the average American is unaware of negative AM stereotypes (and yet, is aware of those for AFs); and
(2) agree with sp's assertion that the AA community's reaction to a publication making fun of AF genitalia was overreaction.
snailpoo
09-15-2007, 07:40 AM
Nice to see you resorting (again) to ad hominem attacks, since you can't actually argue the issues (and by that, I mean backing them up w/ substance instead of conjecture).
Who's the one throwing out accusations of being a "loser"?
Just when I begin to pity you, you go and post something hilarious.
"A loser" is pejorative, and NOT what I posted. "The loser" is determanitive, as in who won and who lost our previous threads.
Aside from pointing out your obvious mistakes like these that ruin your credibility, I am not backing up any argument with you on this forum with any substanstantive information. Why? No one cares. The posters here are old enough and intelligent enough not to fall for the all-oppressive racism angst, and they (and I) certainly do not (you'd know this by now if you were literate) waste time going line by line into arguments you already lost.
This leaves you with two HUGE problems of presumption, you can't over come. One, IF you won those threads, you would not be the one running away from them. Nothing you say can overcome this fact, and running and pretending in front of a new audience on a new board certainly doesn't change anything. Two, over the two years I've posted on this board, I've estabished a reputation for being able to back up what I claim. This isn't I can't; this is I already have, and if you're too slow to understand it the first (or five) times, it's not my job to teach you again.
Banana
09-15-2007, 07:57 AM
I can't believe I read the whole thing.
snailpoo
09-15-2007, 08:02 AM
I can't believe I read the whole thing.
Sorry, not liable for lost brain cells.
i like the pictures. put more pictures in then MAYBE i will pick up on the bold words.
do other issues bother you, j&j2? cuz i would absolutely LOVE to hear your thoughts on homelessness and the state of education. you could name your podcast DAILY DIATRIBES. bonus points if you actually jump up and down, waving your arms around, like a raving lunatic. ^_^
nerds going wild on this thread!! look at em go!!
do other issues bother you, j&j2? cuz i would absolutely LOVE to hear your thoughts on homelessness and the state of education. you could name your podcast DAILY DIATRIBES. bonus points if you actually jump up and down, waving your arms around, like a raving lunatic. ^_^
Uhh, actually, I do have thoughts on such issues (not to mention healthcare, the debacle in Iraq, etc. or the boneheaded moves management/coaches make with my favorite sports teams) – but this is an Asian-American site – which is why I am discussing Asian-American issues – capiche?
As for my “diatribes” – everything I have written is based on facts (as opposed to certain others who only post conjecture, or in epmd’s case – pure idiocy).
It seems like you have some sort of double standard (which actually is quite common when it comes posters who address these issues) – an Asian male discussing these issues (btw, I discuss how the entire Asian-American community has been impacted by these issues) is accused of b