Extravagant Wastes of Resources

[tripostrophe]

Anyone ever think about supersoakers and how they're such a waste of a valuable resource (water)?

Or lamps that people leave on in rooms they're not in just for aesthetic purposes.

Christmas lights,

A/C when they're out of the house so it's frigid when they get back.

Oh and I'm horrible with buffets. I remember one time going to Todai's and piling plates because all the food was so good (I don't care what you say I'll always love buffets!) but I must've wasted at least half or more of it. Pretty bad with the cafeteria where it's all you can eat but nothing ever tastes good.

Just some idiosyncrasies I noticed. Not put in rants because I'm not going to suggest any practical solutions :tongue:

Oh and the worst sin of all -- gardens! Full of flowers and bushes with no practical (or impractical) use! I mean really, if you're going to plant something at least make it stuff you can eat, and sort of get a return on for purchasing, planting, watering, pruning, watering, spraying, watering, etc. Or flowers you can give as gifts. Otherwise...:shakes head:

[applehead]

how can you say gardens are a waste!
they're so nice to look at!

i wish i had the resources to be extravagantly
wasteful once in awhile.

[urbia]

1. Shampoo fight.
2. Take to the streets.
3. Supersoaker fight.
4. Save gallons of water in showers.

[bluemonq]

If you really want to think about "wastes of resources", it's pretty easy to come up with many things that we don't need that are "wastes of resources": two story suburban houses versus small apartments in the city; cellphones versus landline phones; cars versus public transport, bikes, and motorcycles; plastic and paper grocery bags versus cloth totes... the list goes on. All in the name of conveniences that aren't "necessary".

But we won't giving up on any of them anytime soon... will we?

[tripostrophe]

how can you say gardens are a waste!
they're so nice to look at!

i wish i had the resources to be extravagantly
wasteful once in awhile.

To be honest one day I'll probably begrudgingly admit it. Maybe. Depends on the plants. But until then...my favorite garden is one covered in snow :)

[applehead]

If you really want to think about "wastes of resources", it's pretty easy to come up with many things that we don't need that are "wastes of resources": two story suburban houses versus small apartments in the city; cellphones versus landline phones; cars versus public transport, bikes, and motorcycles; plastic and paper grocery bags versus cloth totes... the list goes on. All in the name of conveniences that aren't "necessary".

But we won't giving up on any of them anytime soon... will we?


omg. bluemonq. you're always so serious.
you need to loosen the tie, remove your pocket protector
and do something fun and carefree. like, um
go outside during heavy rain without an umbrella
or... take your shoes and socks off and walk on wet grass
or something.

what do you do for fun?

[applehead]

an extravagant waste i'd like to indulge myself in once in awhile
would be to buy tons of really expensive scented candles
and light them all over the house.
or only purchase really expensive linen.
oh well.

extravagant waste. i like the way that sounds.

[applehead]

an extravagant waste i'd like to indulge myself in once in awhile
would be to buy tons of really expensive scented candles
and light them all over the house.
or only purchase really expensive linen.
oh well.

extravagant waste. i like the way that sounds.

[applehead]

no extravagant wastes!!

like, dumping a whole jar of bath salts in one sitting.
or purchasing really expensive scented candles.
or 1,000 dollar sheets.

or for men. really expensive golf clubs?!
i don't know.

[applehead]

no extravagant wastes!!

like, dumping a whole jar of bath salts in one sitting.
or purchasing really expensive scented candles.
or 1,000 dollar sheets.

or for men. really expensive golf clubs?!
i don't know.

[MD2020]

Double posts are a waste of bandwidth! :tongue: hehe, j/k

Doesn't the US (and virtually all other Westernized countries) lifestyle of consumerism and capitalism pretty much encourage extravagant wastes of resources? We could pretty much do without a majority of the stuff we have (as alluded to earlier) but buying and using things is good.

Our property is a proxy for our happiness. Watch fight club. Go to Ikea.

So I say keep on wasting those resources, it keeps the wheels of our economy rolling along (seriously).

[applehead]

i'm beginning to sound redundant.
i wonder why? hmm... heehee

[bluemonq]

My only point was, there's no point in worrying over "wastes of resources", because there'd be a never-ending list of things to label as extravagant.

[tripostrophe]

haha yeah you're right, but uh...I dunno, I just felt like posting.

Hm...what counts as expensive when it comes to candles? I've got some jar candles that were like $5, but 40% off or something. Don't ask -- I just like fire in general, and sometimes candles do the job. Other times a campfire. Fireworks occasionally.

I personally would like...oh, a personal fantasy of mine involves this room. In a house. That I own. Built on a cliff. Overlooking the ocean. Very dark. Aside from the moon and the stars, of course. Room is controlled for temperature and humidity. Black marble for the floor, black being the main color used. Cold water flows across the floor (one direction -- outwards), with glass French double-doors opening out to black marble steps radiating outwards and downwards to a pool filled with water, with platforms interspersed throughout regularly. Kinda like in Aaliyah's Try Again MV (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tuIVnj0mIPI) . Yeah and at the far end is a grand piano. Sexy.

[Yeahman]

Doesn't the US (and virtually all other Westernized countries) lifestyle of consumerism and capitalism pretty much encourage extravagant wastes of resources?
No they don't. Capitalism is a system of allocating resources. Capitalism is behind the current technological boom in the "green economy."

Our property is a proxy for our happiness. Watch fight club. Go to Ikea.
Ikea is a great example of efficient allocation of scare resources.


Usage is not always waste. Waste is created when resources are misallocated. Enjoyment has a price tag. Fun is not a "waste." Theoretically, if everything was properly priced (taking into account all externalities and removing all price distortions), and consumers had perfect information about all transactions, and those consumers were to always act in their best interests, there would be no waste.

Here, in Korea, I find the abundance of restaurants and bars to be wasteful. I'm not sure why there are so many. Maybe rent controls and zoning regulations are distorting the cost of entry into the food services business. There's just too much being invested in empty resturaunts and bars.

[tripostrophe]

Usage is not always waste. Waste is created when resources are misallocated. Enjoyment has a price tag. Fun is not a "waste."


Ooh, okay. That was a great point. I guess I was being too much of a grinch, haha.

But yeah didn't know too much about Ikea before but checked out their website and wow, that's some pretty cool stuff...we're talking about the home designer people here, right?

[Yeahman]

If it wasn't for Ikea, millions of people would have to buy second-hand furniture or spend a much larger portion of their income on new furniture. That's money that could've been spent on tuition. In other words, if it wasn't for Ikea there'd be a lot more waste.


I think stores should be required to ask if customers want plastic bags.
People should have to pay for their garbage disposal like they pay for their utilities.
Garbage facilities should sort through all garbage to separate the recycleables. I this San Fran does this? I know other countries do.
All goods that require electricity should be required to display how much electricity they use while idle and while in use, right on the box in big bold print. Just like new cars and the MPG sign in the window.
We need a carbon tax.
We need to get rid of farm subsidies.
We need a consumption tax to replace our income tax.
Cell phone service providers should be required to adopt a single standard so people can switch services without switching phones, and they should be required to adopt a single universal charger.
We need to use more nuclear power.

[eos]

i have a huge stack of scrap paper on my desk. it gets bigger and bigger every week because we get unnecessary faxes and people don't read the clear instructions i posted to make copies.

[tripostrophe]

If it wasn't for Ikea, millions of people would have to buy second-hand furniture or spend a much larger portion of their income on new furniture. That's money that could've been spent on tuition. In other words, if it wasn't for Ikea there'd be a lot more waste.


I think stores should be required to ask if customers want plastic bags.
People should have to pay for their garbage disposal like they pay for their utilities.
Garbage facilities should sort through all garbage to separate the recycleables. I this San Fran does this? I know other countries do.
All goods that require electricity should be required to display how much electricity they use while idle and while in use, right on the box in big bold print. Just like new cars and the MPG sign in the window.
We need a carbon tax.
We need to get rid of farm subsidies.
We need a consumption tax to replace our income tax.
Cell phone service providers should be required to adopt a single standard so people can switch services without switching phones, and they should be required to adopt a single universal charger.
We need to use more nuclear power.

ye110man, have you ever considered a career in politics? you always seem to have a lot of good ideas and insight on almost everything you speak on.

[tripostrophe]

i have a huge stack of scrap paper on my desk. it gets bigger and bigger every week because we get unnecessary faxes and people don't read the clear instructions i posted to make copies.

if it's printed single-sided, use the back for scrap paper! :biggrin: well, that's what I tried to do for a while. but i guess it depends on if your job requires jotting a lot of stuff down or calculations or something. And your computer just doesn't cut it...nevermind :frown:

[MD2020]

No they don't. Capitalism is a system of allocating resources. Capitalism is behind the current technological boom in the "green economy."


Ikea is a great example of efficient allocation of scare resources.


Usage is not always waste. Waste is created when resources are misallocated. Enjoyment has a price tag. Fun is not a "waste." Theoretically, if everything was properly priced (taking into account all externalities and removing all price distortions), and consumers had perfect information about all transactions, and those consumers were to always act in their best interests, there would be no waste.

Here, in Korea, I find the abundance of restaurants and bars to be wasteful. I'm not sure why there are so many. Maybe rent controls and zoning regulations are distorting the cost of entry into the food services business. There's just too much being invested in empty resturaunts and bars.

I was actually referring to "extravagant waste of resources" as defined in the original post, which was everything from fun (supersoakers) to aesthetics (gardens). I actually agree with you, because although my post was a little tongue in cheek, I didn't think any of those things were actually wastes, so no need to go all Posner on me. That's why I added (seriously) - but I guess that wasn't taken seriously :P

[bluemonq]

I think stores should be required to ask if customers want plastic bags.
Not enough. They should charge an extra 10 cents per bag.
People should have to pay for their garbage disposal like they pay for their utilities.
I don't know how it is in NYC, but here in Northern California (or at least the entire Bay Area), we do.
Garbage facilities should sort through all garbage to separate the recycleables. I this San Fran does this? I know other countries do.
San Francisco doesn't do this. On the other hand, people should separate recycleables themselves. Stop being lazy, people. If you have a recyle bin, use it. Properly.
All goods that require electricity should be required to display how much electricity they use while idle and while in use, right on the box in big bold print. Just like new cars and the MPG sign in the window.
Until electricity costs take another massive jump, this good-intentioned measure will be pointless. Considering how many people still buy large SUVs - including those whose driving habits really don't call for an SUV - it might still not change anything.
We need a carbon tax.
How encompassing would this be?
We need to get rid of farm subsidies.
Not going to touch this one.
We need a consumption tax to replace our income tax.
What consumption tax scheme would you choose that would be provably non-regressive with income?
Cell phone service providers should be required to adopt a single standard so people can switch services without switching phones...
Down with CDMA. Support GSM. There are two national GSM carriers (T-Mobile and AT&T), and a crapload of regionals with roaming agreements. Switching companies is as easy as visiting a store and swapping a SIM card.
...and they should be required to adopt a single universal charger.
Why is this the cell phone serivce providers' responsibility? Shouldn't it be the cell phone manufacturer's responsibility?
We need to use more nuclear power.
No objections here.

[Faithless]

We were separating our recyclables until the local garbage pickup told us it didn't matter. They just tossed it all into the same recycle bin.

I used to think that bringing your own shopping bags seemed so -- well -- hippy. But there seems to be a practical reason for doing so.

Have stopped running the water excessively for things like dish washing and teeth brushing. Low flow toilets are good.

I cringe at the amount of electricity wasted during the Xmas holidays, but what can do when the family thinks it's so festive? :frown:

[Yeahman]

Not enough. They should charge an extra 10 cents per bag.
On the seller's side, that might make sense. A plastic bag tax levied when the retailer purchases them. Fewer transactions that way.

San Francisco doesn't do this. On the other hand, people should separate recycleables themselves. Stop being lazy, people. If you have a recyle bin, use it. Properly.
There'd be more recyclying if people didn't have to separate it themselves. The nations with the highest rates of recyclying do the separating at the garbage facilities.

Until electricity costs take another massive jump, this good-intentioned measure will be pointless. Considering how many people still buy large SUVs - including those whose driving habits really don't call for an SUV - it might still not change anything.
But SUV's are status symbols. Some appliances like refridgerators and A/C's have electricity usage numbers on display at the stores. I know that people do take them into account.
Devices that use no electricity when idle can display a cool "Zero Idle Load" logo.

How encompassing would this be?
There should be a tax on all hydro-carbons with offsets available for carbon sequestering. Utility and oil companies would be the ones paying.

What consumption tax scheme would you choose that would be provably non-regressive with income?
Our current system with the simple addition of a deduction of savings. The marginal rates can be adjusted to maintain current tax burden.

Down with CDMA. Support GSM. There are two national GSM carriers (T-Mobile and AT&T), and a crapload of regionals with roaming agreements. Switching companies is as easy as visiting a store and swapping a SIM card.
Too late to make Verizon switch now but for the next generation, they should be forced to adopt a single standard.

Why is this the cell phone serivce providers' responsibility? Shouldn't it be the cell phone manufacturer's responsibility?
Either way.

[bluemonq]

On the seller's side, that might make sense. A plastic bag tax levied when the retailer purchases them. Fewer transactions that way.
Nonsense. The only thing that would happen is that the retailers would pass on the cost of the bags in terms of higher-priced goods. If you're trying to reduce bag consumption, it has to impact the end-user. Just like if there weren't as many people wanting illict drugs, there wouldn't be such a big market for them.
There'd be more recyclying if people didn't have to separate it themselves. The nations with the highest rates of recyclying do the separating at the garbage facilities.
Whither personal responsibility?
But SUV's are status symbols. Some appliances like refridgerators and A/C's have electricity usage numbers on display at the stores. I know that people do take them into account.
There are a lot of people who buy into having a large, polished stainless steel SubZero fridge as a status symbol too.
Our current system with the simple addition of a deduction of savings. The marginal rates can be adjusted to maintain current tax burden.
How is that progressive vis a vis income? Low income households have to spend most if not all of their earnings as it is. To be revenue-neutral, you're suggesting that the tax rate for the higher brackets be adjusted upwards. So it doesn't affect the lower brackets - but things don't get any better, either, and the system is still as complicated. Unless you suggest in doing away with the current portfolio of deductions?[/quote]
Too late to make Verizon switch now but for the next generation, they should be forced to adopt a single standard.
EVDO versus UMTS/HSPDA, and never the twain shall meet. What you're suggesting is for Verizon to completely dismantle its current infrastructure, in favor of a technology that would allow its customers to change cell providers more easily, instead of making upgrades to its network in place (I do believe that they just finished upgrading to Rev. A the past week) to EVDO Rev. B. Not going to happen. Meanwhile, Sprint is having its own pipe dreams about VoWiMax.
Either way.
Sorry, this is not just "either way." It's like blaming SBC - err, AT&T for the "Internet" for being "broken" when IE is borked.

[Yeahman]

Nonsense. The only thing that would happen is that the retailers would pass on the cost of the bags in terms of higher-priced goods. If you're trying to reduce bag consumption, it has to impact the end-user. Just like if there weren't as many people wanting illict drugs, there wouldn't be such a big market for them.
Or you can tax the drug dealers, making it less profitable to sell drugs. Stores would want to reduce bag usage as a way of cutting costs.
But again, either way.

Whither personal responsibility?
Personal responsibility for personal responsibility's sake? Whither goals?

There are a lot of people who buy into having a large, polished stainless steel SubZero fridge as a status symbol too.
OK.

How is that progressive vis a vis income? Low income households have to spend most if not all of their earnings as it is. To be revenue-neutral, you're suggesting that the tax rate for the higher brackets be adjusted upwards. So it doesn't affect the lower brackets - but things don't get any better, either, and the system is still as complicated. Unless you suggest in doing away with the current portfolio of deductions?
I'd love to do away with itemized deductions (except for savings).
The purpose of a consumption tax is not to reduce tax burden or even to simply the system.

EVDO versus UMTS/HSPDA, and never the twain shall meet. What you're suggesting is for Verizon to completely dismantle its current infrastructure, in favor of a technology that would allow its customers to change cell providers more easily, instead of making upgrades to its network in place (I do believe that they just finished upgrading to Rev. A the past week) to EVDO Rev. B. Not going to happen. Meanwhile, Sprint is having its own pipe dreams about VoWiMax.
You suggested it.

Sorry, this is not just "either way." It's like blaming SBC - err, AT&T for the "Internet" for being "broken" when IE is borked.
I didn't blame anyone for anything. You can force manufacturers to adopt a single universal charger or you can force service providers to sell only a single universal charger (thereby making the providers force the manufacturers to comply). Makes no difference.

[Yeahman]

ye110man, have you ever considered a career in politics? you always seem to have a lot of good ideas and insight on almost everything you speak on.
I would hate to be a politician AKA entertainer. I'd rather work behind the scenes for a politician or for a think tank. I was working on legislative research for a local politician until very recently. Not much money so I probably wouldn't pursue it for a while though.

[Yeahman]

Cell phone service providers should be required to adopt a single standard so people can switch services without switching phones, and they should be required to adopt a single universal charger.
We may be one step closer to this. The 700MHz spectrum goes up on auction in January but the FCC is not allowing the winner to tie its service to devices, at least for 1/3 of the spectrum. Verizon is pissed. Apple is happy.