On Hip-Hop, Asian-Americans, Black Folks, and Appropriation

[Sven]

I read this little article and was curious to see what you guys thought. So here it is:

We Real Cool?

On Hip-Hop, Asian-Americans, Black Folks, and Appropriation

By Kenyon Farrow

I went to an event in Philly on Friday, November 19 at the Asian Arts Initiative, an Asian American "community arts" space, entitled "Changing the Face of the Game: Asian Americans in Hip-Hop." I cannot pretend I didn’t already know what I was getting myself into. The title of the event itself expresses a level of hostility to Black people – Since Black people are the current face of the game, and for whatever reason, that needs to be changed. But anyhow, I went, ready to see what was gonna go down...

The Main Event

Oliver Wang, Asian American writer, cultural critic and graduate student at UC Berkeley (where he teaches courses on pop culture), the opening speaker and panel moderator, gave an opening talk about the historical presence of Asians in hip-hop. Mr. Wang’s research into the annals of hip-hop history unearthed an emcee (who claims to have cut a record before "Rapper’s Delight") from the South Bronx, whom Wang declares as the "first Asian in hip-hop." He then describes him as "half Filipino and half Black." I couldn’t help but wonder how this emcee identified himself and how he physically looked, and why his Blackness was now a footnote in Wang’s historical re-write.

As Wang continued on, he painted hip-hop music and culture as this multi-culti "American" artform that everyone’s had a hand in developing. By doing so, Wang very skillfully ignored the reality that Rap was in fact created by Black youth (and Latinos from the Caribbean – many of whom are also of African descent and certainly ghettoized as "Black" in the NYC socio-economic landscape) in the South Bronx (or in Queens, depending on whom you ask). Wang went on to say that the only reason why Asians were drawn to hip-hop was because of the music. He also said that "hip-hop is the most democratic music because it doesn’t take the same skill as playing classical music."

Wang then asked a follow-up question to the panelists. Uh-oh! The panel included spoken word duo Yellow Rage, DJ Phillie Blunt, Chops of the Mountain Brothers, a Cambodian-American rapper named Jim, and his friend, the lone Black panelist who is an MC from Philly. Borrowing from the hip-hop romantic comedy Brown Sugar, Wang asked each panelist to talk about when they "first fell in love with hip-hop." All of the panelists, save the Black man, talked about hearing some rap song on the radio and falling in love, because it expressed "who they were" and "their experience."

Jim admitted he grew up in the burbs and came to hip-hop out of his isolation. At least that was honest. Michelle, from Yellow Rage, anointed herself the hip-hop historian (or shall I shay griot?) for the evening. Making jokes about her age, Michelle reminded the audience to pay respect to hip-hop’s roots and remember "the old school." The panel was asked another question by Wang and then he opened the floor for questions from the audience.

After squirming in my third-row seat for the duration of the talk, I had my opportunity. Quickly raising my hand, I was passed the mic. My question/statement was: In all of the talk thus far, we have conveniently skirted around the issue of race. But let’s be real, when we’re talking about hip-hop and hip-hop culture, we mean Black people, which you de-emphasized and de-historicized in your intro talk, Mr Wang . . . Now, we know about the history of Black popular culture being appropriated and stolen by whites, as in the case of Blues, Jazz, and Rock & Roll.

And now there’s hip-hop, and since we live in this multi-racial state which still positions Blackness socio-economically and politically at the bottom, how does the presence of Asian Americans in hip-hop, this black cultural artform, look any different than that of white folks in Jazz, Blues, and Rock & Roll?

The jig was up. I was the rain that ended the parade (or shall I say charade?). The room quickly turned to palpable hostility and anger. Since they were already clearly pissed, I decided to throw out a follow-up question: Mr. Wang, you said that Asian people are attracted to hip-hop because they just like the music, which I find hard to believe since hip-hop also came into prominence in the day and age of music video – where image and representation are as important (if not more) than the music itself.

That being the case, what is it about Black people (and especially Black masculinity in the case of hip-hop), and what they represent to others, that is so attractive to other people, including non-white people of color?

The Body Slam

Well, that did it. They were mad as hell. I mean, how dare I bring up Black people and appropriation, as if Asians can’t possibly appropriate Blackness in the same manner that white folks do! It couldn’t be, not while I’m in a standing-room only crowd of "conscious" Asian youth with locks and hair teased out (and often chemically treated) to look like afros!

Well, that panel couldn’t get that mic around fast enough! Some of the responses were too asinine to even bother with a critique. But I will tackle the main points. The first to respond was the lone Black man on the panel. Responding to my second question, he spoke in a condescending, yet gentle tone (you know, "brother to brother") about us "being a soulful people" and that’s why everyone wants to get with our shit and how I should see it as a "compliment."

Well, I am fine with you getting with it – on the radio or video or whatever – but does that mean you get to have it? Better yet, take it, and then use it against Black people to promote the image of us as intimidating and politically and culturally selfish? This is exactly the narrative that was used to promote Eminem and is being used now for Jin: both of them are framed as real "artists" and "lyricists" who stand dignified in the face of Black "reverse racism" and hostility (watch 8 Mile, read much of the press written about Jin’s appearances on 106th & Park)—as if Nas, Bahamadia, or Andre 3000 & Big Boi aren’t really artists but, as Black people are expected to do, just use "the race card" to get ahead.

And to treat Blacks as "soulful people" is the same as seeing us as primitives (with some genetic code programming us to gleefully wail and shout, shake and shimmy) who make this lovely music yet are too docile to be really intelligent, ingenious and artistic.

Several of the panelists at this event went on to critique commercial rap artists for being materialistic, etc. For example, after putting his arm on his Black friend’s shoulder and telling me that we need to "recognize that Blacks are on the bottom," Jim concluded by telling me that "it’s about class, not race" and how he tries his hardest to be "conscientious."

This is the same guy who earlier emphasized how capitalism diluted the politics of hip-hop without talking about Asian Americans’ role in the capitalist structure. Instead of dealing with this very important issue, the Asian-American panelists acted as if they were "more real" than Black commercial artists. So, because they get to be "underground" (which loosely means someone without a record deal), they get to be "real" and "authentic" over Black artists who have been commercially successful.

I have my own critiques of commercially successful Black hip-hop artists and their materialism, misogyny, violence and homophobia – which I have written and spoken about as well—but I was not about to give that over to some hostile non-Black people to use to make themselves more "down."

Michelle of Yellow Rage flat out screamed on me, in an effort, I guess, to "keep it real" with her duo’s namesake. Starting several of her sentences with the phrase, "You need to acknowledge…" she went on and on about how she is sick of people (I guess Black people) saying that hip-hop is a Black thing.

This Ph.D. candidate (who specializes in both Asian and African American Literature) went on to tell me that I need to "stop being so divisive" and "read my history" via the likes of cultural critics Tricia Rose and Nelson George so that I can learn and ultimately "acknowledge" that "nobody has a monopoly on culture."

And least of all Black people. As the descendants of slaves, the property of others, nothing belongs to us. Everything we do, including hip-hop and spoken word, can be done by anyone else. And yet, Yellow Rage made a name for itself by critiquing appropriation of Asian culture by non-Asians, including Black people (specifically hip-hop artists).

So, to the author of Ancestor Worship (a phrase generally referring to Black African traditional religious practice) and member of Asians Misbehavin’ (which appropriates the name from the Black musical revue of Fats Waller’s music, Ain’t Misbehavin’), I say to you, Michelle, if Asians have certain cultural boundaries that need to be respected (e.g. Chinese/Japanese tattoos, chopsticks in the hair, etc.), then why does that not apply to Black people? Maybe this is something Michelle can ponder as she works on her dissertation called "Untying Tongues" (which appropriates the title of the late Black Gay filmmaker Marlon Rigg’s work, Tongues Untied).

So I asked the first, and apparently last question of the Q&A. Not caring to see the "performance" part of the evening (though I’d have to call the panel a performance as much as the concert), I left the event, dealing with the angry glares on my way out. I thought it was over. But then a friend sent me a link to a commentary on the cultural possessiveness of Blacks over hip-hop on Oliver "aka O-Dub" Wang’s site written by Mr. Wang himself (link removed).

The Aftermath

So, in a larger blog about Jin and Asians in hip-hop, Wang writes about the Asian Arts Initiative event. Describing how I raised the question I did, Wang responds:

"I’m constantly frustrated by these kinds of defensive attitudes around cultural ownership though I am quite aware of how they arise. The gentleman in this case was correct in noting that African American culture has suffered through a long history of being exploited to the gains of others and there is great concern that hip-hop is simply next on the list…Communities may think they ‘own’ a culture but that’s not how culture works. It’s not an object you can chain up. Culture doesn’t care about borders - it spreads as fast and as far as the people who consume it will take it.

I agree, yes, culture can also be misappropriated and exploited. But if people are really worrying about hip-hop becoming the latest example of Black culture being emptied of content and turned into a deracinated commodity, the problem doesn’t lie with Asian American youth. Or Latino youth. Or even white youth really."

It’s interesting – or more accurately, disturbing – that Wang uses the metaphor of culture being "chained up" in relation to African Americans. Wang, like Michelle from Yellow Rage, refuses to deal with what the legacy of being property (always owned, and never owners) means in the case of Black people and claims of ownership over culture. So, where Black people are concerned, both historically and contemporarily, it’s all good. We make everything for everybody.

Wang goes on assert that the "The color line here is painted in green. You want to talk about cooptation? Talk about corporations…" (right now W.E.B. Du Bois is rolling over in his grave). So I guess, as Wang puts it, the real (and I guess only) problem is corporations who promote hip-hop and make money off of it—of which some executives are Black, Wang is eager to point out.

That’s almost slick, Ollie. But not quite. People who don’t want to deal with their own complicity in the reproduction of anti-Black racism are very quick to point out corporations as the culprit. Interestingly, while emphasizing corporations, Wang doesn’t talk about his own relationship to them or that he makes a living writing for such corporations about a music that allegedly doesn’t require much skill or that he works for a university—which is also a corporation—and gets to have some control over the production of knowledge about hip-hop.

Instead of addressing this, Wang goes out of his way to point out that there are one or two Black people in some level of decision making capacity in the music industry. But why doesn’t he talk about how virtually none of them actually own the labels, and fewer are in control of any means of production and distribution?

The narrative of blame the corporation, but not me (or any living breathing person), and don’t talk about the bodies it oppresses in the meantime is such a mirror of the white nationalist narrative. It, to me, is the same as the white person saying, "Don’t blame me for slavery. My grandparents didn’t own any slaves. They came from Russia in 1902. And didn’t Africans sell their own people into slavery? And didn’t some Blacks own slaves?"

Well, maybe your "immigrant" ancestor did not own slaves, but they certainly benefited from a nation that valued whiteness above all else. And they got jobs in industry (that Black people clearly needed and couldn’t get easy or any access to) and amass wealth in a way Black people have been prevented from doing collectively.

A handful of rappers, athletes, and talk-show hosts doesn’t change the fact that a recent study by the Pew Hispanic Center deemed that Black families are the only racial group in the United States who saw their wealth decrease in recent years. And your grandparents didn’t end up here by accident, no more than mine accidentally left the shores of Africa – "chained up." They came because the US wanted to balance a growing Black non-enslaved population with more white people. So the US took who they could get.

By the 1960’s the US again decided to balance a "mad and organized-as-all-hell" Black population by relaxing immigration to bring in more non-Black people of color. So, in many cases, the non-Black presence in the US was specifically set up in relationship against Black people. Even if your family was here before the 1960s, look at the history of every contiguous state formed between the American Revolution and the Civil War. The question of slavery is at the heart of the founding of every single one. The "slave," the "nigger," and the "criminal" are historical and contemporary positions that Blackness occupies. This reality is something everyone is forced to deal with, and yet nobody wants to be one of them.

So, what Asian Americans and Asian American politics (and I think "People of Color" politics as well) has yet to fully deal with is that we can’t talk about capitalism and corporations in some abstract sense. If we do then we ignore how one’s positionality against Blackness and Black people in a white supremacist context helps to define the issues of ownership, property and parameters and how they are racialized. Just because you aren’t phenotypically white doesn’t mean you can’t uphold white interests politically—as Wang likes to point out in his example of the Black executive—but Black people as a whole cannot function politically in the same way that non-Black people of color can in the current global paradigm (Yes! Global. Let’s talk about sub-Saharan Africa in relation to South America, the Middle East or Asia, if you must).

So, NOT being Black is what seems to matter more under capitalism than being white.

The Final Round

So, corporations are but one manifestation of the American project. But history and culture are also an equally important part of that project. History and culture inform narratives that form people’s logic and assumptions, which root themselves in the subconscious. We could overthrow all corporations tomorrow, and if our narratives stay the same, or simply shift shape without being utterly transformed, some other new and oppressive shit (aimed at Black people!) will take it’s place. And take the prison’s place. So, don’t put all your focus on corporations, or laws, or cages without dealing with the logic that makes us assume we need them in the first place.

There’s an old saying my grandmother has: "I’m not dealing with the form, I’m dealing with the essence!"

The essence is exactly this: Let’s un-assume that because we’re all up in hip-hop that we’re all on the same page. Let’s un-assume that because you might try to look like me or sound like me (or how you think I do both), that we are working towards the same goal, or that we even have the same enemy. I don’t think, despite efforts to think otherwise, that this was really ever Black people’s assumption.

To close, let me share a story that I think is very telling and illustrates everything I’ve been getting at here. I was living in New Orleans last year, and had just arrived for 2003 Satchmo Festival celebrating the life of Louie Armstrong. The event takes place in the gentrified Fabourg Marigny, and over that August weekend, cafes and restaurants fill with Brass Bands, Jazz and Blues artists.

I sat outside a coffee shop one day listening to an incredible quartet with a group of Black people I had just met, while the cafe was filled with folks from all over, including whites, Japanese tourists and Asian-American college students. One Black woman said to her friend, "Girl let’s go in!" The other replied, "No, I’d rather stay out here. I can’t experience it the way I would if it was just us. I always feel like part of the minstrel show when they be up in it. And there ain’t no place in New Orleans where they don’t go now..."

I turned to her, and gave an "Uh-huh," wanting her to know I was there to bear witness to what she’d said, and glad she’d said it. I, too, chose to stay on the outside for the very same reason. Asian Americans in hip-hop need to consider this Black woman’s concern, as well as this question: If first-generation white European immigrants like Al Jolson could use minstrelsy (wearing blackface, singing black popular music and mimicking their idea of Black people) to not only ensure their status as white people, but also to distance themselves from Black people, can Asian Americans use hip-hop (the music, clothing, language and gestures, sans charcoal makeup), and everything it signifies to also assert their dominance over Black bodies, rather than their allegiance to Black liberation?

People who now think that jazz is for everybody never think about what the process was to get jazz to that place, nor what that means for the people who invented it. This thought leaves me with one last – albeit very frightening – question: Will my niece and nephews be at a festival for Lauryn Hill fifty years from now, also standing on the outside looking in?

[deez nuts]

by some freak act of nature if i was there, i would've cheered the author on. i hate chiggers, kiggers, jiggers, vinegars etc etc etc.

asian rappers: please stop attempting to rap. you look and sound like idiots.

while we're at it. blacks please stop attempting to do kung fu and putting references to kung fu in your rap and also please lose the black samurai fantasies. it also makes you look like idiots.

[Sven]

Well I thought it held anti-asian bent, however still held a few valid points. I posted this elsewhere and this comment (made by someone else) I can agree with:

I don't know. Wang sounds full of it, but the author is so d@mned smug and missing critical chunks of the picture IMO.

So, NOT being Black is what seems to matter more under capitalism than being white.

Yes and no? I'm pretty sure it's not that "black and white," so to speak.

I think he assumes that Asian Americans just take in black images as uncritically as white people do, and I believe that is simply untrue. Now-- it may happen often and when it does happen, it can have related/similar effects, but it's not, again, so cut and dried as to say Asian Americans are acting "just like" white people.

Plus, I don't think he's being critical enough of incidents like this one:

I sat outside a coffee shop one day listening to an incredible quartet with a group of Black people I had just met, while the cafe was filled with folks from all over, including whites, Japanese tourists and Asian-American college students. One Black woman said to her friend, "Girl let’s go in!" The other replied, "No, I’d rather stay out here. I can’t experience it the way I would if it was just us. I always feel like part of the minstrel show when they be up in it. And there ain’t no place in New Orleans where they don’t go now..." I turned to her, and gave an "Uh-huh," wanting her to know I was there to bear witness to what she’d said, and glad she’d said it.

So that's perfectly understandable-- not black is not black. But not only is he rhetorically equating people of Asian descent with white folk, he's rhetorically equating Asian Americans with Japanese tourists, and furthermore, I think he's potentially letting slide some degree of anti-Asiam sentiment that, like anti-black sentiment, trickles down from white supremacy.

Not saying every one of his points or feelings is invalid*, but I feel like this could have been titled: "Asian Americans: They're Just Like White People."


*I especially liked this one:

Asian Americans in hip-hop need to consider this Black woman’s concern, as well as this question: If first-generation white European immigrants like Al Jolson could use minstrelsy (wearing blackface, singing black popular music and mimicking their idea of Black people) to not only ensure their status as white people, but also to distance themselves from Black people, can Asian Americans use hip-hop (the music, clothing, language and gestures, sans charcoal makeup), and everything it signifies to also assert their dominance over Black bodies, rather than their allegiance to Black liberation?

That's some crucial stuff right there. My main issue is that there are significant reasons not to equate Asian Americans with "white ethnics."

[TB4000]

^Very interesting read. Hip-hop in and of itself has become more of a pop culture thing than a black thing, which is where some of the issues stem. You get anyone attempting to rap, there will be cries of "they're trying to act black", which is already basically saying that rap equates to being black automatically, and that's all we're good for.

[Paradox]

I don't understand the point the author is trying to make. It seems to me he's repeating the typical african-american stereotype about asians being "submissive and tools of the white man" just in more roundabout terms. He's getting his panties all up in a wad over nothing. Hip Hop was appropriated by the masses a long long time ago. When you see pampered suburban kids wearing sideways hats, walking with that stupid limp, and talking out of the corner of their mouth then you know whatever uniqueness in hip hop is long gone. He might argue about the "corporate" idea but the reality is there. Hip Hop was taken over a long time ago and the image is constantly being recycled in pop culture now. It makes me wonder if hip hop culture will burn itself out eventually like the hair metal scene. I can't say that i'd shed any tears if it did.

[snailpoo]

I thought this was interesting:

Well, I am fine with you getting with it – on the radio or video or whatever – but does that mean you get to have it? Better yet, take it, and then use it against Black people to promote the image of us as intimidating and politically and culturally selfish? This is exactly the narrative that was used to promote Eminem and is being used now for Jin: both of them are framed as real "artists" and "lyricists" who stand dignified in the face of Black "reverse racism" and hostility (watch 8 Mile, read much of the press written about Jin’s appearances on 106th & Park)—as if Nas, Bahamadia, or Andre 3000 & Big Boi aren’t really artists but, as Black people are expected to do, just use "the race card" to get ahead.

Isn't the author being politically and culturally selfish while playing the race card?

[nameless]

Isn't the author being politically and culturally selfish while playing the race card?

Yes. Same as when we complain about non-Asians appropriating our cultures.

Solution: Everyone to their corners. You stay away from our stuff, and we'll stay away from yours. Like deez_nuts said, everyone looks stupid out of their element anyway.

[tripostrophe]

Damn lost a post and some steam but whatever.

I think he has some potentially valid points, but I agree with the analysis that he's missing huge parts of the picture.

.I doubt the title "Changing the Face of the Game" is about hostility against the black faces in Hip Hop; rather, it's probably about the lack of Asian faces in Hip Hop (or any other section of a music industry that's pretty obviously racist; though maybe not as much as visual media? (maybe))

.Interesting how he seems to equate physical features with "blackness" or "Asianness" re: Oliver Wang's intro. What the rapper identified with though is a valid point, though offset when you consider blacks who "passed" for white in their careers, e.g. O.J. Simpson -- read a book by Dyson recently that examined this in a chapter, and apparently he didn't identify too strongly with the black community in his career days, but a bit more during the trials -- still, that didn't stop black people from "claiming" him, yeah?

.Seems to be twisting words as much as Wang is twisting history when he talks about Hip Hop's "creation" vs. its "development" -- its roots are undeniably black, but the entire thing hasn't been created within a black vaccuum where no others have been able to enter. And damn, only Latinos and blacks can become part of the ghetto poor? //>>>model minority myth. Wang's comment describing Hip Hop as "unskilled" is disturbing though. Obviously not everyone can rap (well). Though I'm beginning to question whether he was talking about the talent and skill required, or the equipment, etc. (Comparative costs of starting up a rock band vs. a rap group//instruments, etc. vs. a computer or DJing equipment (or even someone who can beatbox) -- most of the time, rock is more expensive than rap yeah?)

.Starting with the Brown Sugar reference, Farrow's condescending attitude bothers me -- every time some aspect of Hip Hop culture is referenced by anyone not black, he seems to dismiss them as charlatans, with nothing more than a surface-level understanding of the culture.*

,The "at least that was honest" part seems to equate Asian with white -- which only serves to perpetuate the model minority myth -- which doesn't help any people of color. And again, dismisses Michelle as nothing more than a charlatan.*

.Damn. "In all of the talk thus far, we have conveniently skirted around the issue of race." Glaring black/white mentality(bias) here -- if it's not about black people, it's not about race? Someone needs to open their eyes, or take an intro-level soc course...valid points about historically black music being taken and reappropriated by the majority culture though; but I don't see Hip Hop as being in danger of falling victim to that anytime soon.

.I don't think that Farrow is making any valid point regarding MVs and image/re*presentation* vs. lyrical/musical ability. The same blanket statement could be applied to millions of people (of all colors) who latch onto the materialistic rockstar/street dreams that the mainstream presents as Hip Hop culture.

.Farrow assumes that the image of the black male as a hypermasculine gangster type is the only reason that people are attracted to rap...essentially calling us posers hungry for a commodified revolution (think Che shirts), like people who get into film to be indy, skateboarding to be punk, etc. (f.ck him)

.Ugh, I hate how he dismisses the social conscience of every APIA in the room based on his perception of everyone there as pretentious white liberal-faux-socially conscious member of society. I doubt there was a significant portion of the crowd sporting dreds and afros...but whatever he needs to sell his reporting.

.Dismissing points as asinine seems like an easy way out of difficult conversation; hypocritical in light of his criticisms re: leaving out significant portions of the "big picture" re: Hip Hop culture. Boo the lack of academic and journalistic integrity.

.I somehow doubt that the black panelist (why unnamed?) was acting the part of the house negro as much as Farrow is trying to sell him...but then again, there is a tendency to overdo the ingratiation when you're trying to get other people to open up to your culture (90% of all activities put on by multicultural organizations). All the same, Farrow's obvious bias casts doubt on his interpretation.

.Ugh, 8 Mile did a horrible thing in trying to pull white struggles with reverse racism as the major issue, but damn. Jin? That's fhucking offending. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that he only brought up his Asian identity as a source of pride in (a) reaching out to the APIA audience that looks up to him in songs and (b) countering what were obviously racist/race-baiting attacks against his APIA identity. It was pretty infuriating to see/hear every opponent of his pull race on him while hiding comfortably behind the majority black audience. (And yes, I recognize the fallacy of pulling reverse racism if you're in a privileged position, but I feel that in this case (rap battles before a predominantly black audience) that wasn't the case). LOLZ WTF!!1 @ a rapper like Nas having to play the race card to get ahead...or ANYBODY being so uninformed as to assume that. Talk about abstract strawmen (never heard anyone use this before).

.Yeah on the "soulful" part -- sounds like the "Asians are smart" bit.

.Ugh -- class and race intersect and mesh for people of color, especially if they're poor -- Jim sounds like he's bought into the "colorblindness" myth, at least to some degree.

.And Farrow seems to have bought into the "Oriental Jews" myth as well. Damn, dissing on the underground...culture is big, but just because you get to create the culture from the position of a label owner like Sean Combs doesn't mean that you're "authentic" -- more likely you're prostituting the culture to reach the masses (hm!). Muhtherfhucker trying to deny the credibility of conscious critics by making them outsiders.

.F.ck this guy; doubt he knows what Yellow Rage is about -- or even gives a shit. Failing as a potential ally. Hm, glad for the recommendations on reading material (ironic universal point for Michelle).

.Interesting here. I'm pissed off at this fool's divisive politics, but definitely DO get pissed off at hippie-types who try and appropriate Asian culture -- I see a significant difference in that Asian culture is based off a peoples, whereas Hip Hop is both the people and the music -- and when it's something that is often more loosely defined than "peoples" (problems with defining "people" itself sure), there's a tendency for the demographics to expand. Religion based on tradition; but music that sprung from an oppressed minority searching for a voice. I'm a bit stuck on this, but ultimately see the truest expression of Hip Hop not in the person who proclaims it, but rather the words coming out of her or his mouth (social justice vs. blackness; though black identity is definitely a large, integral part of the culture -- not exclusively however). Damn, he's going way over the top with the "slaves" bit though.

.Wtf? Ancestor worship is a tradition that's been well established in Asian countries for thousands of years. That's all I'm gonna say. Oh! Oppression Olympics...is that maybe what I've been trying to get at throughout all this? (serious question). This idiot needs education on Asian culture. Chopsticks in the hair? Seriously? Someone's seen one too many geishas...and dammit, claiming every f.cking thing as if we're incapable of any original thought; even if it is paying homage, let her.

.Writer's bias obvious in his refusal to take in the performance. But again, I'm always hesitant to watch little white preteens (and even the occasional legit black belt) breaking boards in the name of TKD. But shit, there are obviously people who are more into it than I'll ever be -- and some of them are white.

.You know, for some reason, I really doubt Oliver Wang was trying to equate blackness with slavery...

.I don't get the paragraph re: the green color line. I'm assuming Wang is calling for alliances between racial groups through Hip Hop and Farrow is sneering? And damn, hypocrisy -- Farrow is as eager to point out the black as Farrow is to point out the Asian.

.Interesting point about people shrugging off personal racism by directing all questions to the social structure. He may have a valid point here with Oliver Wang being part of a white media that controls everything -- but this dude also maintains an independent blog, etc. And what's the difference between Oliver Wang and a black person? Shit, there're plenty of black journalists and reviewers giving glowing reviews to 50 cent and the like -- they're all part of the system.

.Farrow ignores the absence of prominent As. Am. artists just as much as Wang ignores the absence of black label owners -- though I'd reserve judgment on Wang; want to check out And You Don't Stop, read through it and see how he presents things; and I want to check out Farrow's stuff as well.

.Does anyone else find the "white nationalist" comparison to be a bit of a stretch (filled with holes)? And I'm going to point out my own hypocrisy before someone else does and call attention to the word choice here: "immigrant." Hm...perpetual foreigner, anyone? And tying us together with white folks again. Ugh. And I'm not sure who he's talking to in the next few paragraphs -- I think he's purposely blurring the lines between whites and Asians (as honorary whites); I wish he wouldn't do that.

.Not sure about this one: does relative wealth of black Americans tie into what's largely been a discussion about Hip Hop culture?

.Wow, Farrow seems to totally understand how the dominant white society pits people of color and other oppressed groups against each other, but completely misses the point -- we're supposed to see this and rise above it, not fight for crumbs, or in some oppression olympics.

.There is a point to be made in us as APIAs examining and pushing away our potential status as "honorary whites;" and instead serving as APIA allies to the cause of all People of Color.

.I like how he claims the stereotypes as "black." Not really.

.And yeah, I'm totally for APIAs using Hip Hop as a means of artistic expression, and a voice against everything that's wrong in society. I'm sure that's why a lot of people get into Hip Hop (okay, maybe not a lot but...). And Farrow seems to be okay with that. But he seems too blinded by his own prejudices and the Asian = white mentality to let that happen.

And man, what is this shit from deez and nameless? Screw you two. You can't just trash what I connect with and find inspiration from every time someone like Jin, Chan, or FM rap about their experience as APIAs in America. And damn, I think Jenny Choi rocks pretty hard, even if she isn't white. Plenty of people like James Iha, Thomas Lauderdale. Will.I.Am. Chops. Chad Hugo. To say nothing of the countless APIA musicians representing with the classical.

[tripostrophe]

Dang this is pretty old though. Good discussion at the same time.

[deez nuts]

an example of why asians should not be rapping:

i laughed my ass off watching this recent video that sunwukong posted:



the subject was made into a song i think in the 70s and since has been re-made many times. the original version was a slow song. Wang Lee Hom did a hip-hop sounding rendition of it, but i think he added extra lyrics to the song.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2vkdM9X8D4


in this thread: http://forums.yellowworld.org/showthread.php?t=32894

the funniest part is when he raps and i quote:

"now there's a story that will makes you cry
straight from taiwan
they came just a girl and homeboy in <3
no $ no no job no speak no english
nobody give em the time of day
in a city so cold they made a wish
& then they had the strength to graduate
w honors & borrowed 50
just to consummate a marriage
under GOD that never left their side
gave their children pride
raise your voices high
<3 will never die never die"

bwahahahaa. he is the gayest.

and another classic fag'o'licious thread is the YW digital battle thread!

http://forums.yellowworld.org/showthread.php?t=12844

the first thought that came to my mind when i read that thread was "holy shit our math team is drunk from drinking old english malt liquor and now they think they're black."

[kimpossible]

I don't think Farrow was anti-Asian at all. He shouldn't give Asians a free pass at something he would have the same problem with it if the kids/people in question were white.

[nameless]

And man, what is this shit from deez and nameless? Screw you two. You can't just trash what I connect with and find inspiration from every time someone like Jin, Chan, or FM rap about their experience as APIAs in America. And damn, I think Jenny Choi rocks pretty hard, even if she isn't white. Plenty of people like James Iha, Thomas Lauderdale. Will.I.Am. Chops. Chad Hugo. To say nothing of the countless APIA musicians representing with the classical.

Actually, I agree with your post (especially about the author's lack of research) and would karma you if I could. And I do think that hip hop (and all music for that matter) can and should be used by everyone to express themselves.

However, I will always find afros on Asians absolutely hysterical, and the same goes for non-Asians (especially hip hop people) using Asian imagery. Can it ever be pulled off decently? Sure. I just don't really see how it helps getting one's message across (unless you're an artist trying to sell an image). In this respect, I can understand the author's anger at people not giving the culture it's due respect. But what are you gonna do - ask people to take an Asian / African American studies course before partaking in the culture? LOL good luck at that. Keeping everyone in/out of a culture is about as possible as making them respect it.

That said, I don't really think 'everyone to their corners'. I would have put a :wink: but I didn't want to deemphasis how much I think poseurs look stupid.

[BaiginLong]

an example of why asians should not be rapping:

i laughed my ass off watching this recent video that sunwukong posted:



in this thread: http://forums.yellowworld.org/showthread.php?t=32894

the funniest part is when he raps and i quote:

"now there's a story that will makes you cry
straight from taiwan
they came just a girl and homeboy in <3
no $ no no job no speak no english
nobody give em the time of day
in a city so cold they made a wish
& then they had the strength to graduate
w honors & borrowed 50
just to consummate a marriage
under GOD that never left their side
gave their children pride
raise your voices high
<3 will never die never die"

bwahahahaa. he is the gayest.

and another classic fag'o'licious thread is the YW digital battle thread!

http://forums.yellowworld.org/showthread.php?t=12844

the first thought that came to my mind when i read that thread was "holy shit our math team is drunk from drinking old english malt liquor and now they think they're black."

Hold up...I know you weren't just stupid enough to diss the real rappers in this forum. There's a difference between trying to rap and knowing what it's about and making it their own without acting ghetto about it. contra_diction and I are as legit as they come so I suggest you take your insults elsewhere son.

[MD2020]

Asians shouldn't rap because rap is retarded.

We should stick to playing the drums on Creative Labs keyboards.

[admire]

If you haven't noticed it's usually young Asian bros. who imitate hip-hop music, dress and norms. Rarely you find Asian girls doing the same. I go to clubs and see these Asian bros. trying to talk Ebonics and dressing black to hit on and talk to white chicks and Latinas.

We really need our own styles. Copying either the white man or black man ain't really going to give us any respect from any type of women.

Why not infuse hip-hop with some East Asian rhythms?

[tripostrophe]

an example of why asians should not be rapping:

i laughed my ass off watching this recent video that sunwukong posted:



in this thread: http://forums.yellowworld.org/showthread.php?t=32894

the funniest part is when he raps and i quote:

"now there's a story that will makes you cry
straight from taiwan
they came just a girl and homeboy in <3
no $ no no job no speak no english
nobody give em the time of day
in a city so cold they made a wish
& then they had the strength to graduate
w honors & borrowed 50
just to consummate a marriage
under GOD that never left their side
gave their children pride
raise your voices high
<3 will never die never die"

bwahahahaa. he is the gayest.

and another classic fag'o'licious thread is the YW digital battle thread!

http://forums.yellowworld.org/showthread.php?t=12844

the first thought that came to my mind when i read that thread was "holy shit our math team is drunk from drinking old english malt liquor and now they think they're black."

Shit man why's homosexuality now taken on the meaning of "unable to rap"? And I don't care how many videos you post of Asians who can't rap: I'll always have my own artists to listen to.

[tripostrophe]

I don't think Farrow was anti-Asian at all. He shouldn't give Asians a free pass at something he would have the same problem with it if the kids/people in question were white.

Eh but did you read the whole article? I think there was some anti-Asian bias mixed in with the anti-cultural prostitution angle.

[tripostrophe]

Actually, I agree with your post (especially about the author's lack of research) and would karma you if I could. And I do think that hip hop (and all music for that matter) can and should be used by everyone to express themselves.

However, I will always find afros on Asians absolutely hysterical, and the same goes for non-Asians (especially hip hop people) using Asian imagery. Can it ever be pulled off decently? Sure. I just don't really see how it helps getting one's message across (unless you're an artist trying to sell an image). In this respect, I can understand the author's anger at people not giving the culture it's due respect. But what are you gonna do - ask people to take an Asian / African American studies course before partaking in the culture? LOL good luck at that. Keeping everyone in/out of a culture is about as possible as making them respect it.

That said, I don't really think 'everyone to their corners'. I would have put a :wink: but I didn't want to deemphasis how much I think poseurs look stupid.

Haha okay sorry I guess I missed the sarcasm since you were posting right after deez nuts (who I shouldn't be taking too seriously either I guess). And yeah, fine balance between appreciating a culture and appropriating it...which sounds like a great discussion as well.

[tripostrophe]

Why's there a double standard when it comes to 'acting black' and 'acting white' when it comes to music? Probably because it makes everyone uncomfortable to see us breaking away from the MM stereotype...

[deez nuts]

Hold up...I know you weren't just stupid enough to diss the real rappers in this forum. There's a difference between trying to rap and knowing what it's about and making it their own without acting ghetto about it. contra_diction and I are as legit as they come so I suggest you take your insults elsewhere son.

don't hurt me!


And I don't care how many videos you post of Asians who can't rap: I'll always have my own artists to listen to.

you do that.

[tripostrophe]

argh this is off-topic.

[n3bulous]

i agree with the author being annoyed/puzzled at asians trying to go mainstream with mainstream, innocuous rap (jin + others). i'm right with him. i mean, i respect jin's ability, he's got a quick, creative mind, but ultimately he and others like him end up rapping about....rapping. nothing else. nothing that's "real" while at the same time relevant to urban oppression/squalor.

eminem is somewhat the same way i guess, though not as bad. dre's endorsement certainly helped (smart business decision by dre? tap even further into the white market?).

the only asian rappers i know of that rap about real shit are thai (viet) and tighteyez (khmer). but they'll never be mainstream, never be commercially successful, due to the nature of their subject matter. mainstream america doesn't wanna hear about asians that came up rough in the ghetto. they're a minority within a minority, few people care. whites, many blacks, most asians can't relate to that. so commercially, they're no threat to farrow's POV. however, artistically, their experiences are genuine (AFAIK) such that they could tell farrow "kiss my a$$," and it would be legit, or better yet, "come take a ride through my hood." like paul wall, they didn't drive in from suburbia lookin for hip-hop, they grew up in the hood and were immersed in it, surrounded by it. as far as i'm concerned that's the only type of non-black rappers that can be genuine and not cringe-inducing.

[tripostrophe]

i agree with the author being annoyed/puzzled at asians trying to go mainstream with mainstream, innocuous rap (jin + others). i'm right with him. i mean, i respect jin's ability, he's got a quick, creative mind, but ultimately he and others like him end up rapping about....rapping. nothing else. nothing that's "real" while at the same time relevant to urban oppression/squalor.

eminem is somewhat the same way i guess, though not as bad. dre's endorsement certainly helped (smart business decision by dre? tap even further into the white market?).

the only asian rappers i know of that rap about real shit are thai (viet) and tighteyez (khmer). but they'll never be mainstream, never be commercially successful, due to the nature of their subject matter. mainstream america doesn't wanna hear about asians that came up rough in the ghetto. they're a minority within a minority, few people care. whites, many blacks, most asians can't relate to that. so commercially, they're no threat to farrow's POV. however, artistically, their experiences are genuine (AFAIK) such that they could tell farrow "kiss my a$$," and it would be legit, or better yet, "come take a ride through my hood." like paul wall, they didn't drive in from suburbia lookin for hip-hop, they grew up in the hood and were immersed in it, surrounded by it. as far as i'm concerned that's the only type of non-black rappers that can be genuine and not cringe-inducing.

I disagree with your assessment that rap and hip hop culture must be about "ghetto life" in order to be considered real hip hop. There're plenty of artists whose whole focus is far away from that scene, and instead take on a more lyrical dimension -- check out Binary Star's Masters of the Universe for example. Considered an underground classic, but it does not fall into the same category of rap that you're mentioning -- there are plenty of references to hip hop culture, but very little of the "real shit" that you're talking about. Hip Hop Culture can be as much about the art as the experience; but obviously there's going to be intertwining of the two, dependent upon experience.

If this helps: rock about being a rock star can be considered as "legit" as some hardcore emo grunge stuff, right? Maybe a bit more "commercial," but...

[deez nuts]

the rap business promotes sexism and misogyny. it degrades women.

[Golden Monkey]

Hip hop ..culture?

Rap...music?

.....naw.

That's like jumbo shrimp, Swiss Navy, or President Kucinich.

They just don't go together.

[raacluse]

Sounds like Farrow has a chip on his shoulder... I think that Farrow's objections have been eclipsed by the way that hip hop, particularly rap, has become a form of humor/mild self-deprecation by white politicians... When you have Karl Rove bouncing along to humorous rhyming about him by a white comic (this past spring), then you know the gig is up! (I think there was also some political event in Nevada, where some white politicos pretended to be rappers.)

I was just thinking about the Rove thing the other day, and I decided that maybe it means that rap (not sure about the rest of hip hop) has become blown out, has become passe'.

Time to move on to the next thing...

(BTW, I'd guess that the Black/Filipino rapper that Wang was referring to was Joe Bataan... )

[AngryABCGirl]

^Very interesting read. Hip-hop in and of itself has become more of a pop culture thing than a black thing, which is where some of the issues stem. You get anyone attempting to rap, there will be cries of "they're trying to act black", which is already basically saying that rap equates to being black automatically, and that's all we're good for.

Really good point, hip hop culture - or what is people suppose is hip hop culture is worldwide now. The extra thug/black element that's supposed to there is just a marketing gimmick to legitamize people getting off on the misogyny, violence, and hypophobia that exists in a lot of hip hop culture- not all. But that's all you're gonna see on mainstream tv anyway and people measure hip hop on the quality of the thug and the bass beats.

It also makes it okay for black people to call women hos in videos, but not Don Imus.

[AngryABCGirl]

If you haven't noticed it's usually young Asian bros. who imitate hip-hop music, dress and norms. Rarely you find Asian girls doing the same. I go to clubs and see these Asian bros. trying to talk Ebonics and dressing black to hit on and talk to white chicks and Latinas.

We really need our own styles. Copying either the white man or black man ain't really going to give us any respect from any type of women.

Why not infuse hip-hop with some East Asian rhythms?

East Asian rhythms? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ldih7yGIEcw　done. Other than the sideways hat, he's just using a form. Call it stupid if you want, but writing old Chinese poetry and making it flow like that and reciting it ridiculously fast towards the end to cymbals takes skill.

I've seen a lot of Asian women rap, I mean really rap for real at underground shows. But the fact is right now rap is a completely male-dominated industry worldwide, the only major female success is Missy Elliot, and some argue only because of Timbaland's beats.

Rap is built so much on a thug image, no typically hot girl is gonna go on the radar anytime soon rapping and being badass, let alone an Asian woman, even in her own community.

[AngryABCGirl]

i agree with the author being annoyed/puzzled at asians trying to go mainstream with mainstream, innocuous rap (jin + others). i'm right with him. i mean, i respect jin's ability, he's got a quick, creative mind, but ultimately he and others like him end up rapping about....rapping. nothing else. nothing that's "real" while at the same time relevant to urban oppression/squalor.

eminem is somewhat the same way i guess, though not as bad. dre's endorsement certainly helped (smart business decision by dre? tap even further into the white market?).

the only asian rappers i know of that rap about real shit are thai (viet) and tighteyez (khmer). but they'll never be mainstream, never be commercially successful, due to the nature of their subject matter. mainstream america doesn't wanna hear about asians that came up rough in the ghetto. they're a minority within a minority, few people care. whites, many blacks, most asians can't relate to that. so commercially, they're no threat to farrow's POV. however, artistically, their experiences are genuine (AFAIK) such that they could tell farrow "kiss my a$$," and it would be legit, or better yet, "come take a ride through my hood." like paul wall, they didn't drive in from suburbia lookin for hip-hop, they grew up in the hood and were immersed in it, surrounded by it. as far as i'm concerned that's the only type of non-black rappers that can be genuine and not cringe-inducing.

I really agree with on that the last part about Asians who don't want don't know and don't want to know about other Asians who grow up in the hood and in poverty. Honestly speaking though, Asian kids growing up in nice parts of San Jose and Asian kids growing up in Richmond- only thing they have in common is that they'll be mistaken for each other and hate that might happen.

However, I don't agree that rap, or any performance form should be associated with any one socio-economic level or image, and rap has transcended that and taken on many forms worldwide, but I doubt that will be recognize for a long time.

But right now people still want the thug and that's what's in and how supposed rap is measured. I'll be like this for probably for a long time because race association and its roots, rap will always be associated with hood and that as a measure. The only rap that's not black I've seen starting to gain some success and mainstream play is Chicano rap, but I might be hearing it and seeing it more living in LA.

Make no mistake about it though, I think an element of hip hop will always be about resistance with an ethnic and class lace. Asian acts, in the US like Chan, FEM, Jin and in Asia like LMF and even Leehom have elements of strong resistance and empowerment in them on ethnic and social lines.

[AngryABCGirl]

I think I'd just add another point to an important point a previous poster made.

Asian Americans complain all the time about limited roles in the media. Without a doubt, many Asian Americans worship hip hop, but won't legitamize their own artists and won't recognize talent when they see it because they've been too ingrained in the model minority ideal and feeling de- masculinized and not tough, especially among middle and upper-class Asians. Asians in the hood don't have time to worry about this shit.

When songs from Asia or an Asian American artists make their own movies, songs, etc. it's usually met with nervous laughter and giggles and not even smart criticism, let alone recognition of talent and recognizing that while they blame the White man for not letting them succeed in the industry, many of them simply don't support their own independent artists or expect a miracle messiah to happen and make a hit that they'll all be happy with, when they're totally impeding it themselves.

If you're not happy with an Asian guy acting like a Black guy or an Asian guy acting like White guy, an Asian guy acting like an Asian guy, or an Asian guy who tries to create something new, my brother, you are screwed.

[deez nuts]

i grew up in bed stuy in brooklyn, ny. we then slowly moved up to chinatown then woodside then jackson heights, etc etc. i relate to classical and country music.

[VV o n g B a]

i agree with the author being annoyed/puzzled at asians trying to go mainstream with mainstream, innocuous rap (jin + others). i'm right with him. i mean, i respect jin's ability, he's got a quick, creative mind, but ultimately he and others like him end up rapping about....rapping. nothing else. nothing that's "real" while at the same time relevant to urban oppression/squalor.any type of artform that doesn't evolve is dead. mainstream rap, which to me hasn't evolved in 10 years, is pretty much dead as an artform as art implies creativity. sure the beats are nice, but there's nothing that differentiates one rap from another. the only way to rescue it is to branch out from urban oppression/squalor. as chris rock said, "keepin it real is keepin it stupid."

[tripostrophe]

I think I'd just add another point to an important point a previous poster made.

Asian Americans complain all the time about limited roles in the media. Without a doubt, many Asian Americans worship hip hop, but won't legitamize their own artists and won't recognize talent when they see it because they've been too ingrained in the model minority ideal and feeling de- masculinized and not tough, especially among middle and upper-class Asians. Asians in the hood don't have time to worry about this shit.

When songs from Asia or an Asian American artists make their own movies, songs, etc. it's usually met with nervous laughter and giggles and not even smart criticism, let alone recognition of talent and recognizing that while they blame the White man for not letting them succeed in the industry, many of them simply don't support their own independent artists or expect a miracle messiah to happen and make a hit that they'll all be happy with, when they're totally impeding it themselves.

If you're not happy with an Asian guy acting like a Black guy or an Asian guy acting like White guy, an Asian guy acting like an Asian guy, or an Asian guy who tries to create something new, my brother, you are screwed.

<3 I love your knowledge and analysis.

Af. Ams got to where they are in hollywood right now because of the community supporting actors/actresses and positive representations, and boycotting negative rep. I think we could gain our own modest level of success if we were to do the same, but yeah I think we have bought too much into trying to "pass." I love the shit out of APIA media and everything, but I'll admit that it still makes me uncomfortable a lot of the time bringing it up, for fear of appearing too invested in my APIA identity (which there's obviously nothing wrong with...).

There are a lot of great APIA artists out there with a positive message for us all, but for some reason, they never seem to be able to make it. I think that at least part of it though is the racist structure pervading all forms of media...Harlemm Lee of Fame for example. And I was surprised when At Last lost out to Bianca Ryan...though I guess it makes sense, considering the target demographic was probably entire families.

[deez nuts]

I think I'd just add another point to an important point a previous poster made.

Asian Americans complain all the time about limited roles in the media. Without a doubt, many Asian Americans worship hip hop, but won't legitamize their own artists and won't recognize talent when they see it because they've been too ingrained in the model minority ideal and feeling de- masculinized and not tough, especially among middle and upper-class Asians. Asians in the hood don't have time to worry about this shit.

When songs from Asia or an Asian American artists make their own movies, songs, etc. it's usually met with nervous laughter and giggles and not even smart criticism, let alone recognition of talent and recognizing that while they blame the White man for not letting them succeed in the industry, many of them simply don't support their own independent artists or expect a miracle messiah to happen and make a hit that they'll all be happy with, when they're totally impeding it themselves.

If you're not happy with an Asian guy acting like a Black guy or an Asian guy acting like White guy, an Asian guy acting like an Asian guy, or an Asian guy who tries to create something new, my brother, you are screwed.

chinese and taiwanese people have already made a huge impact in the world of classical music as performers. not only are they good at it, a few of them have become icons in the classical music world and some even transcended somewhat to the mainstream and become sort of like popular culture icons e.g. yo-yo ma. a good majority achieve fame not only on a national level but also on an international level e.g. lang lang.

there is always an influx and will always continue to be an influx of new chinese and taiwanese classical music prodigies and a few out of the batch will go on to become famed solo performers.

from purely a longevity standpoint in terms of making a lasting impression: classical has been around for centuries; rap will probably be a passing fad like heavy metal.

[Geese]

I see the points being made by the article and I've noticed the attempts to rinse hip-hop of the fact that Blacks are its creators and that it actually was a culture. Its a hot mess now and has been occupied by posers, sellouts, niggers and opportunist at this point. I don't think that the writer of the article would take snide shots if Blacks could actually get the credit they deserve when it actually applies. I've seen people turn pale about Elijah McCoy, Louis Latimer, Dr. Percy Julian and Black inventors who still don't get the credit they deserve. I guess if men of intelligence can't get the time of day while the average Black man is dogged to death... I can see why the writer is slightly perturbed.

Hip-hop has been utterly destroyed by White commercialism and the talented can't get in unless they have a thug gimmick or can appeal to the mostly White consumer. At the same token, Blacks have allowed the greedy and selfish niggers to become the figureheads of these sideshows. Many people are still under the phony assumption that Don Imus brought attention to negative lyrics in hip-hop as if Black people are too foolish to police themselves and question the things that are said or shown about their communities.

I do find it weird that an industry dominated by Blacks would only have ONE Black panelist, but it is not very surprising. The real issue becomes if anyone will tell the actual full-story of hip-hop or do what I have seen in some of these post, list only the negative aspects and pretend like it had no positives whatsoever. In the end, the history of the art form and who originated it is what always becomes the sticking point. For those who do not believe or wish to believe it, it only shows why some simply swing first and ask questions later. Hip-hop, for the last time, was an actual culture. Its roots sprung from the very opposite of what it now is a driving engine for; ending Black on Black gang violence.

So whether anyone likes it or not it sprung from Blacks in the city trying to do what their attempts to use their taxpayer dollars never seem to go towards. Creating programs that give young people things to do besides wander around and then get into trouble out of boredom. Any attempt to trace Asian Americans to Hip-Hop is just thievery, pure and simple. Most Asian Americans during the actual development of hip-hop, the music, the dance, the clothes, let alone the GRAFFITI, etc. They got into UNGODLY TROUBLE with their Asian American parents! And I certainly don't recall seeing any Asian Americans at any of the parties I went to, nor any of the battles. Plus I don't recall any Asian Americans in Crush Groove, Breakin or any of the other movies that came from when you had to be creative and not have a creative consultant to push your gimmick!

It is often times within the re-telling of the story that Blacks suddenly become the "Section-8" people of their own creation and anyone else, anyone else but the Blacks brought some sort of "dignity", "class", "respect" or whatever to the art form. This is actually the undertone of the article and although I disagree with some aspects of what he said, he is dead on the money in that aspect. At the same token... I also realize that we as Black people are also the primary cause for this happening. So while he and his friend may have sat outside and felt a certain way because of history... why exactly are you still pouring your money into a system that has no respect for you then? I could care less if I am liked, but not respected and you certainly can't ensure yourself when you haven't taken the time to stop buying and investing in a structure that always attempts to delete you from the recognition process when success happens.

[tripostrophe]

I see the points being made by the article and I've noticed the attempts to rinse hip-hop of the fact that Blacks are its creators and that it actually was a culture. Its a hot mess now and has been occupied by posers, sellouts, niggers and opportunist at this point. I don't think that the writer of the article would take snide shots if Blacks could actually get the credit they deserve when it actually applies. I've seen people turn pale about Elijah McCoy, Louis Latimer, Dr. Percy Julian and Black inventors who still don't get the credit they deserve. I guess if men of intelligence can't get the time of day while the average Black man is dogged to death... I can see why the writer is slightly perturbed.

Hip-hop has been utterly destroyed by White commercialism and the talented can't get in unless they have a thug gimmick or can appeal to the mostly White consumer. At the same token, Blacks have allowed the greedy and selfish niggers to become the figureheads of these sideshows. Many people are still under the phony assumption that Don Imus brought attention to negative lyrics in hip-hop as if Black people are too foolish to police themselves and question the things that are said or shown about their communities.

I do find it weird that an industry dominated by Blacks would only have ONE Black panelist, but it is not very surprising. The real issue becomes if anyone will tell the actual full-story of hip-hop or do what I have seen in some of these post, list only the negative aspects and pretend like it had no positives whatsoever. In the end, the history of the art form and who originated it is what always becomes the sticking point. For those who do not believe or wish to believe it, it only shows why some simply swing first and ask questions later. Hip-hop, for the last time, was an actual culture. Its roots sprung from the very opposite of what it now is a driving engine for; ending Black on Black gang violence.

So whether anyone likes it or not it sprung from Blacks in the city trying to do what their attempts to use their taxpayer dollars never seem to go towards. Creating programs that give young people things to do besides wander around and then get into trouble out of boredom. Any attempt to trace Asian Americans to Hip-Hop is just thievery, pure and simple. Most Asian Americans during the actual development of hip-hop, the music, the dance, the clothes, let alone the GRAFFITI, etc. They got into UNGODLY TROUBLE with their Asian American parents! And I certainly don't recall seeing any Asian Americans at any of the parties I went to, nor any of the battles. Plus I don't recall any Asian Americans in Crush Groove, Breakin or any of the other movies that came from when you had to be creative and not have a creative consultant to push your gimmick!

It is often times within the re-telling of the story that Blacks suddenly become the "Section-8" people of their own creation and anyone else, anyone else but the Blacks brought some sort of "dignity", "class", "respect" or whatever to the art form. This is actually the undertone of the article and although I disagree with some aspects of what he said, he is dead on the money in that aspect. At the same token... I also realize that we as Black people are also the primary cause for this happening. So while he and his friend may have sat outside and felt a certain way because of history... why exactly are you still pouring your money into a system that has no respect for you then? I could care less if I am liked, but not respected and you certainly can't ensure yourself when you haven't taken the time to stop buying and investing in a structure that always attempts to delete you from the recognition process when success happens.

woah watching the words. But I don't think anyone is trying to rewrite history by washing the black roots a different color -- we just want our own voices and figures represented along with them, you know? Sorry if my critique came off as biased (which it was), but I was just mad as hell @ farrow. And shoot, I'm sure the parents thing goes every which way -- I'm sure Bill Cosby isn't the only black critic of Hip Hop culture. And haven't Filipinos been on the tagging scene for a while now? And could you explain what "section-8" means?

[deez nuts]

So whether anyone likes it or not it sprung from Blacks in the city trying to do what their attempts to use their taxpayer dollars never seem to go towards. Creating programs that give young people things to do besides wander around and then get into trouble out of boredom. Any attempt to trace Asian Americans to Hip-Hop is just thievery, pure and simple. Most Asian Americans during the actual development of hip-hop, the music, the dance, the clothes, let alone the GRAFFITI, etc. They got into UNGODLY TROUBLE with their Asian American parents! And I certainly don't recall seeing any Asian Americans at any of the parties I went to, nor any of the battles. Plus I don't recall any Asian Americans in Crush Groove, Breakin or any of the other movies that came from when you had to be creative and not have a creative consultant to push your gimmick!


well said, black man. i concur 100%.

i grew up in the city where rap and hiphop was born. i also didn't see any asians when hiphop and rap were being conceived and in its development stages.

like you said any attempt to trace asian americans to hiphop and rap is just thievery and any asians that attempt to do so are just posers with no indentity of their own.

[AngryABCGirl]

well said, black man. i concur 100%.

i grew up in the city where rap and hiphop was born. i also didn't see any asians when hiphop and rap were being conceived and in its development stages.

like you said any attempt to trace asian americans to hiphop and rap is just thievery and any asians that attempt to do so are just posers with no indentity of their own.

I know deez nuts kids around, but I'd like to pretend to be seriously addressing an opinion.

We all know hip hop's origins are African American/Black/whatever PC term you prefer, and the origins of hip hops were about resistance and battling out with words instead of violence. It's definitely was and is an urban mechanism that's spread worldwide. Just because one people creates a culture doesn't mean it can influence others. Hell entire governmental systems were adopted from other countries if you wanna grow on a macro scale.

I know the whole chigger argument will be invariably made over and over again about Asians and hip hop and urban culture- but the fact is for a large amount of Asian American kids, hip hop/urban culture is what they grew up with and influenced their mindset and thinking more than ching chong whatever. Go to East Oakland (where there are lot of SE Asians and poorer Chinese) or K-Town LA and you'll see what I'm talking about. Even outside of that, hip hop culture has always been a vehicle for resistance. Hip hop had its origins in trying to reduce violence in inner cities by teaching young men to battle it out with words instead instead of physical violence (something grossly perverted later in commercial gangsta rap). Chicano teenagers have heavily borrowed elements of hip hop culture. Asian teenagers have done the same. It's always been a sound to represented the unrepresented.

Hip hop and urban is probably a much more representative what Asian American youth than perhaps most things in Asia, especially for the many many Asians growing up in big cities and a natural expression form for Asian American youth. There's a lot actually a lot of Hmong rap out there come to think of it that describes the bitter urban gang life and there's also rappers like Jin who rap about identity and his family's story of immigration, and FEM (listen to Blue Collar Blues and Western :http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=53862 )who get both fun and political. Hell I'll admit I was a banana, baggy pants, giant puffy jacket, dyed hair AZN girl back in my high school days too, trying to bass out the crappy ass car I drove- that was LA Asian life back then. That culture, largely borrowing from hip hop culture the way Chicano culture did in attitude and fashion was a escape from the model minority geeky weak-willed Asian box.

Plus fact of a matter is hip hop is worldwide, change in form, in dozens of languages to represent different causes and identities. This collab: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5l0rVsY52A with Akon and hip hop artists representing the unrepresented youth in Europe primarily of North African descent in three languages speaks of it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5l0rVsY52A . I'd call it more world culture more than anything else now, of course with complicated racial and class quagmires.

[kimpossible]

I can see why the writer is slightly perturbed.


Me too.

[AngryABCGirl]

Me too.

I agree too. I don't think it was particularly directed against Asians either, but started at the example of the Asian Hip Hop summit, hence that feeling. If anything it's a bigger lash of mainstream hip hop in the chains of corporations and creative marketing machines, which I agree with 100% - as well as Asian American complacency in that structure. But again the fact remains, you had a generation of Asian Americans living in and breathing in hip hop beats, as well as other minorities for that matter (look at reggaeton for obvious influences), and living in that type of macho culture and shaped by it, it's undoubtedly become an American cultural practice. For better or for worse, things are porous.

There's this one quote in the whole thing that's perhaps the most important point:

I sat outside a coffee shop one day listening to an incredible quartet with a group of Black people I had just met, while the cafe was filled with folks from all over, including whites, Japanese tourists and Asian-American college students. One Black woman said to her friend, "Girl let’s go in!" The other replied, "No, I’d rather stay out here. I can’t experience it the way I would if it was just us. I always feel like part of the minstrel show when they be up in it. And there ain’t no place in New Orleans where they don’t go now..."

I turned to her, and gave an "Uh-huh," wanting her to know I was there to bear witness to what she’d said, and glad she’d said it. I, too, chose to stay on the outside for the very same reason. Asian Americans in hip-hop need to consider this Black woman’s concern, as well as this question: If first-generation white European immigrants like Al Jolson could use minstrelsy (wearing blackface, singing black popular music and mimicking their idea of Black people) to not only ensure their status as white people, but also to distance themselves from Black people, can Asian Americans use hip-hop (the music, clothing, language and gestures, sans charcoal makeup), and everything it signifies to also assert their dominance over Black bodies, rather than their allegiance to Black liberation?

People who now think that jazz is for everybody never think about what the process was to get jazz to that place, nor what that means for the people who invented it. This thought leaves me with one last – albeit very frightening – question: Will my niece and nephews be at a festival for Lauryn Hill fifty years from now, also standing on the outside looking in?

Cultural ownership in a multicultural society is very slippery ground here. Also I doubt many Asians in hip hop are or Chicanos in hip hop for that matter, or Native American hip hop even today is not a same example of what happened to jazz, there's a between a difference of one group using a form to describe similar experiences or off the same board if you will, than it totally being run over(which would be argued of popular hip hop today), but there's plenty of music still being made that isn't all pimps and hos and beats. Honestly most of the people who listen to that are not even Asian people, but White people. I mean it's not like we don't see White people practicing weird feng shui stuff either and so on and so forth that an Asian American scholar could easily go on long lengths about and how the civil rights movement included more than just Black people, but we don't hear about that. Again slippery slope.

I understand the whole idea of "safe space" for "my culture." If you have been in any diversity/progressive related activity in college, you know what I mean. This "safe space" idea is great and all a perhaps a necessary cocoon for emotionally fragile college students, but in this world there is no such thing as safe space and pure culture anymore, this world is global at the macro and the micro. If for some reason I was struck by some bizarre freakish desire to embrace my true Chinese roots and go to some bumfuck place in China, I would find someone who has heard of McDonalds, etc I doubt I'd find the purity wherever. Wang Kar-Wai said in a past interview responding to why he used so many different(by nationality) cultures music in all his films, mostly about HK in different eras, and responded that today is a global era, and all of our thoughts cannot be expressed by one culture anymore.

While I'm not gonna say misappropiation of hip hop culture by Asians doesn't exist, cause chiggers are abound, I see fools with doorags on in Taipei and have heard Asian kids call each other nigga, but these days hip hop culture is not soley owned by Black people and there's no turning back. If anything I encourage for Asian hip hop is to create own unique forms and spins and attitude that doesn't completely (cause it always will) cop off perceived African American hip hop culture- cause even if you grew up in the hood, it's not the same as being Black. Chicano and Native American hip hop and hip hop in Asia is very different from Black hip hop other than words blazed out and some baggy pants, but many Asian American groups have yet to carve that nitch.

[Golden Monkey]

I've seen people turn pale about Elijah McCoy, Louis Latimer, Dr. Percy Julian and Black inventors who still don't get the credit they deserve. I guess if men of intelligence can't get the time of day while the average Black man is dogged to death...

Try this site here. You might start getting a little paler yourself if you dare to do the research.

Black Invention Myths

http://www33.brinkster.com/iiiii/inventions/

Blacks as a group don't deserve credit or blame for inventing garbage like rap or hip hop. Only the actual performers do regardless of race.

And anybody of any race can use cultural innovations from anywhere at any time.

I'm getting tired of hearing black racist chumps, and their non-black allies, trying to promote cultural apartheid.

Blacks co opt, use, take from other cultures everyday. Only blacks get all racist about claiming they have special rights to some form of so called culture.

Everything human is for every human.

Anything else is just racism. Don't dress it up as black pride or shit like that.

[Napoleon Chynamite]

Only blacks get all racist about claiming they have special rights to some form of so called culture.

Anything else is just racism. Don't dress it up as black pride or shit like that.

Interesting clash of an overgeneralizing and inaccurate racist remark coupled with a statement implying that racism should be discouraged.

[deez nuts]

one shouldn't forget rick rubin white guy when it comes to rap music!

rick rubin, like him or hate him, played a vital role when rap music was emerging and made a lot of rappers rich and famous.

just rick rubin's contribution alone is probably why white rappers are more accepted than asian rappers.

[Golden Monkey]

And don't forget all the technology that makes this rap noise possible. Almost all of it invented by White people or Asians.

And 95% manufactured with Asian labor.

So are Asians going on black sites complaining about blacks using "Asian" technology.

The other amazing thing is it's the black racist types who squeal about it who are themselves not even the inventors of rap.

Just because you are black doesn't give you the right to say "we" invented it, it's "ours".

If particular black performers feel ripped off that's for them to complain not just anybody who happens to be black.

Besides, niggahs gots to respect the old White lady who invented rap.

The Sugarhill Gang took her stuff and ran wid it. :biggrin:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tpz5WcCrhR4

http://gfx.filmweb.pl/p/3920/po.80794.jpg

[deez nuts]

some blacks just have an "enthusiastic" sense of entitlement. but their issues with asian rappers and appropriation, i support their "enthusiasm" because they're doing me a favor.

[Sven]

So hopefully no one here complains about cultural appropriation. Since we live in this global society, everything will be tainted eventually so it really doesn’t matter. I can agree with tris' longer post but all this painting "Hip Hop was made for everyone!” there was no "black element" to it seems to be following what he was saying. Removing black people from the picture. Golden just flat out said that they don’t deserve credit at all.

And don't forget all the technology that makes this rap noise possible. Almost all of it invented by White people or Asians.

And 95% manufactured with Asian labor.

Who cares about the minor details with labors or other nonsense like that. Computers were created by white people, since white is always right why are you using the white man(tm)’s computer?

African American/Black/whatever PC term you prefer

I have a better idea, let's just say niggers. I think that's the word you were looking for.

[deez nuts]

I have a better idea, let's just say niggers. I think that's the word you were looking for.

SUCCESS!

you heard it here, folks.

[Golden Monkey]

Removing black people from the picture. Golden just flat out said that they don’t deserve credit at all.

Try to make at least some effort at reading comprehension.

I said "they" as a group don't deserve credit for what other people in their race have done.

I said the people who deserve the credit or in the case of rap/hip hop, the blame are the ACTUAL INDIVIDUAL PERFORMERS/INVENTORS.

No, I'm not going to see any black guy on the street or on this board and say there goes one of the inventors of rap.

It don't work that way.

I will recognize the actual innovators not random individuals within the same so called race.

But I agree with deez, Asian rappers are an embarrassment. Rap/hiphop is garbage and all these yiggers, chiggers, fliggers, kiggers and jiggers really need to give it a rest.

[deez nuts]

But I agree with deez, Asian rappers are an embarrassment. Rap/hiphop is garbage and all these yiggers, chiggers, fliggers, kiggers and jiggers really need to give it a rest.

don't forget the vinegars. vietnamese that wants to be black.

[tripostrophe]

I have a better idea, let's just say niggers. I think that's the word you were looking for.

Woah there. I don't think that's quite what she was going for...

[tripostrophe]

deez nuts.

[AngryABCGirl]

I have a better idea, let's just say niggers. I think that's the word you were looking for.

Why don't you not make fucked up assumptions. You know there's a lot of debate about the terms Black and African American, and the differences and implications etc. and how that also relates to the history of hip hop, I was trying to get that, but that flew over your head. Sad attempt at finding a mocking joke.

[AngryABCGirl]

So hopefully no one here complains about cultural appropriation. Since we live in this global society, everything will be tainted eventually so it really doesn’t matter. I can agree with tris' longer post but all this painting "Hip Hop was made for everyone!” there was no "black element" to it seems to be following what he was saying. Removing black people from the picture. Golden just flat out said that they don’t deserve credit at all.

The main problem with cultural appropriation and one of the points made in the article is that there's a power difference in who can do the appropriating and ethnic thing, ie his quote about dominance over black bodies and culture. But it's a very slippery slope there. For example a white woman and buy a sari (traditional indian garb) and wear it in some chic neighborhood and wear it and it's like wow that's ethnic chic and style and trendy, but have an Indian woman wear it in the same place and it can reinenforces her perceived foreign-ness. It's not gonna stop either groups from wearing bindis though, do you get my point? But it's gonna be looked at different and it's almost like the Indian woman can't own her own culture. There are no easy solutions or rules for this though.

I'm gonna give a little more slack for hip hop culture because it is a global culture/trend/whatever. Plus like I said before Asian American kids growing up with hip hop battles and underground
(unsigned and independent)all around them and wearing their hats sideways is not quote the same as a white midwest kid from a suburb getting off to the violence, bling, and misogyny in mainstream hip hop videos.

[deez nuts]

I'm gonna give a little more slack for hip hop culture because it is a global culture/trend/whatever. Plus like I said before Asian American kids growing up with hip hop battles and underground
(unsigned and independent)all around them and wearing their hats sideways is not quote the same as a white midwest kid from a suburb getting off to the violence, bling, and misogyny in mainstream hip hop videos.

what about the midwest asian american kid from a suburb getting off to violence, bling, and misogyny from rap videos and a white kid growing up with hip hp battles and underground all around them and wearing their hats sideways. plenty of these two examples too.

[Geese]

Golden Monkey says; Try this site here. You might start getting a little paler yourself if you dare to do the research.

However, Geese said; I've seen people turn pale about Elijah McCoy, Louis Latimer, Dr. Percy Julian and Black inventors who still don't get the credit they deserve. I guess if men of intelligence can't get the time of day while the average Black man is dogged to death...
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Uhh, Golden Monkey... psst, psst... I never said that Blacks were the first at inventing anything. I said "men of intelligence", which you clearly aren't. Also, I don't name drop to validate myself or my accomplishments. If I did then I wouldn't use a log-on name, I'd simply have my name up my account so everyone can say "OMFG, LOOK LOOK ITS... who the fuck is that? That can't be him, fuck would he be doing here?"

And the rest of your rant, was that supposed to be directed at me or just your poor quote and link that have nothing to do with what I said.

[tripostrophe]

what about the midwest asian american kid from a suburb getting off to violence, bling, and misogyny from rap videos and a white kid growing up with hip hp battles and underground all around them and wearing their hats sideways. plenty of these two examples too.

And plenty examples of all kinds of people who are into the culture who can rap or bboy or etc. and yet don't do it in order to "act black."

[hooligan]

This is getting too fucking long.

[hooligan]

And plenty examples of all kinds of people who are into the culture who can rap or bboy or etc. and yet don't do it in order to "act black."

This.

Now tits or get the fuck out.

[tripostrophe]

This.

Now tits or get the fuck out.

what? are you drunk or something?

[hooligan]

what? are you drunk or something?

I rarely post drunk (I do it all the time). I love the golden age of hip hop. De La!

Come on guys, you can't have never heard of Jeff Chang

http://www.amazon.com/Cant-Stop-Wont-History-Generation/dp/0312425791/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/102-6177202-2103320?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1180653173&sr=8-1

[tripostrophe]

I rarely post drunk (I do it all the time). I love the golden age of hip hop. De La!

Come on guys, you can't have never heard of Jeff Chang

http://www.amazon.com/Cant-Stop-Wont-History-Generation/dp/0312425791/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/102-6177202-2103320?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1180653173&sr=8-1

haha okay. i have heard of him and his book but haven't yet had the chance to check it out/read it. how was it?

[hooligan]

haha okay. i have heard of him and his book but haven't yet had the chance to check it out/read it. how was it?
I haven't had a chance since I've been bouncing through a reading list, but from what I hear it's true to life. The people he interviewed are great and it gives a pretty accurate account.

[n3bulous]

I disagree with your assessment that rap and hip hop culture must be about "ghetto life" in order to be considered real hip hop. There're plenty of artists whose whole focus is far away from that scene, and instead take on a more lyrical dimension -- check out Binary Star's Masters of the Universe for example. Considered an underground classic, but it does not fall into the same category of rap that you're mentioning -- there are plenty of references to hip hop culture, but very little of the "real shit" that you're talking about. Hip Hop Culture can be as much about the art as the experience; but obviously there's going to be intertwining of the two, dependent upon experience.

If this helps: rock about being a rock star can be considered as "legit" as some hardcore emo grunge stuff, right? Maybe a bit more "commercial," but...

I have no idea who Binary Star is, but based on a quick google search, they are African-American apparently. Like I said, non-black rap has to be about ghetto, hardcore, dope dealin, gang war, survival, poverty, squalor type shit, otherwise it doesn't really make sense.

this limitation doesn't apply to black rappers with street cred. they have more leeway in terms of expression through hip-hop, as it all contributes to the overall "black experience" by default, since they themselves are black.

for non-blacks, that's not the case. what if a country redneck guy who grew up in the KKK started rapping about how he got burnt lighting a cross in someone's yard? what if a blue-blood CEO started rapping about how he orchestrated his latest corporate merger? they can if they want, but they'll be nothing more than circus sideshows. that's not hip-hop.

[tripostrophe]

I have no idea who Binary Star is, but based on a quick google search, they are African-American apparently. Like I said, non-black rap has to be about ghetto, hardcore, dope dealin, gang war, survival, poverty, squalor type shit, otherwise it doesn't really make sense.

this limitation doesn't apply to black rappers with street cred. they have more leeway in terms of expression through hip-hop, as it all contributes to the overall "black experience" by default, since they themselves are black.

for non-blacks, that's not the case. what if a country redneck guy who grew up in the KKK started rapping about how he got burnt lighting a cross in someone's yard? what if a blue-blood CEO started rapping about how he orchestrated his latest corporate merger? they can if they want, but they'll be nothing more than circus sideshows. that's not hip-hop.

Yeah, both members were black. And while I recognize the roots of Hip Hop culture as historically black music originating from urban areas, I don't think it's fair to judge all rap music by these standards. There're plenty of black rappers who don't have "street cred," yet it would be wrong to say that they're not contributing to the overall "black experience" (unless black by default has other socioecon. connotations...).

And this is just my own opinion, but I'd consider a non-black rapper with solid subject matter relating to social justice or a strong political message to be more legitimate than most of the party party bull put out by black mainstream rappers nowadays.

And please, that last paragraph was absurd. strawman.

But despite the fact that I'm trying to argue for a more universal view on this matter, I do recognize the roots for what they are. Just thinking that we should be allowed into this culture a little maybe.

[kimpossible]

I don't name drop to validate myself or my accomplishments. If I did then I wouldn't use a log-on name, I'd simply have my name up my account so everyone can say "OMFG, LOOK LOOK ITS...


Superman?




Santa?

[VV o n g B a]

But I agree with deez, Asian rappers are an embarrassment. Rap/hiphop is garbage and all these yiggers, chiggers, fliggers, kiggers and jiggers really need to give it a rest.really i think it's u thats the embarrassment. u might as well relegate all asians to be dickless math wizzes. it sucks that u have so little imagination that u can't accept that different ppl express themselves in different ways.

not all rap has to be about black oppression. thats what it grew out from, but if that's all it can ever be then as a form of expression, it's DEAD.

[Geese]

Superman?




Santa?

SUPER BLACKMANNNNNNNNN!!!!!:biggrin:

[kimpossible]

Dear SuperBlackMan,

Help! I have these stupid white hippies that keep 'rapping' outside my window. What should I do? Scalding oil out the window? Napalm?

shutupshutupshutupshutup stupid goddam hippies

[Geese]

Hmmm... Rapping White Hippies? Hmmm, kinda like squirrels in a blender? The oil out the window would be a bit too ECW, Age of Warrior's, though it would make you feel much better with their demise. However... to eliminate "Rapping" White Hippies is tough to do. They often over time turn into EVIL CORPORATE TYRANTS, but I would imagine that if they're OLD Rappin White Hippies? Then they're past the sellout expiration date. :biggrin:

I believe a Wily Coyote approach is best here. Perhaps aaaaa cd player with speakers attached... on a handtruck? No, YES! A handtruck! Something that has wheels, flat surface so you can put the cd player and speakers on it. You'll need to understand that these items will be destroyed in the process of ridding yourself of these vermin.

You'll need either a Yanni CD or a John Tesh CD, make sure that you wear gloves that can be burnt or buried after touching either one. Place the CD in the CD player. Tie a 2" threaded rope around the handtruck. If you have any road nearby or any place that you can find oncoming traffic, then you're all set! You really wanna find someplace with blind curves. Observe how quickly the traffic lights change...

Then when you have a rudimentary feel for the traffic lights cycle, simply wait till traffic is stopped. Turn on said CD, if all else fails an Eminem CD or De La Soul, if they're hippies they should know De La Soul. But turn on the cd player. Said rodents will immediately be attracted to the music. Quickly cross the street with the rope, leaving the handtruck on the other side. As the pest close in on the cd player, slowly, but smoothly, pull the handtruck towards you...

The rest is simple, oncoming traffic solves problem and local paramedics perform the clean-up. You get off scott free because it is not your fault that they were unable to do anything but groove out to the music.

OR, you could simply turn on any of Emperor Bush's National Radio Addresses and that should root them out of there in a hurry! Hope that helps, and now? I'M OFF!!!!

[stonedasian]

Goddamnit!

Waking up, drinking my press of kona beans, listening to some Jay Z and Young Jeezy, reading this thread while smoking some good asss shit rolled in some cheap cigar, made me realize something that have never, ever, crossed my mind. I wanted to be black all this time, and didn't realize it.

You see, I grew up in the city. Not the surrounding suburbs.
Because of that, I had to see and interact with black folks(and ricans, that's a whole, another story). Unfortuately for me, I even had to make friends with "these" people. And again, unfortuately, I still hang out these mfers in my EARLY 30s. I blame this on my parents, who couldn't afford to put me in a good suburban home.

Its never too late, I can change into a good Asiwhite American. I got a house in a great white part of the city(still in the city however, further the better maybe?). I don't wear any Sean John, got some Ben Sherman in the closet. And that boy with the guitar, Mayer alongside the Young whoeverthefucks on my playlist. I think I'm on the white pa.... I mean the right path.

[hooligan]

Dood, who doesn't know who Binary Star are? (you don't know hip hop)

[hooligan]

Magnetic North. That's all I have to say.

http://www.magnetichiphop.com/

They just moved to NYC after being around Nor/Socal. It's like my story, kind of.