Being an Asian Am Woman in Asia

[AngryABCGirl]

This is just my personal collection of rants to let off some steam. I'm in fact welcoming other people who've lived in Asia, especially women to give me some advice. That's really the thing that's getting to me because my notions of feminity and women's roles are very different because of growing up in American and having a really strong independent mother who moved out on her own in her twenties in Taiwan into her own penthouse (a rarity even now) and a really chill father that I'm having trouble dealing with a more traditional society and crazy relatives.

I'm not trying to make a collective judgment of Taiwanese society as a whole, in fact I'll give the caveats that I interact with a lot younger people on a more daily basis that are not readily a part of the representative whole of the population and have crazy relatives.

- I'd rather be like the women in Central HK wearing power business suits around IFC running you over with her brief case screaming into her cell phone than cutesy anything (it's probably the most striking difference there, that and toilet thing). Does not make me manly or scary. Just wanting to be successful. Lots of cutesy girls there too, richer ones.

- I am not trying/do not to lose weight. Just because I am not wafer-thin does not make me have any desire to be nor make me sad that I am not. In fact that scares me.

- Why yes I'd like extra servings of that delicious food and lots of beer and mini-cigars to go around with it. k thanks.

- I am not dying to find my perfect Korean/other Asian drama type man to rescue me, in fact it disgusts me that there are many people at the age of 25 would leave a job to pursue a relationship. Trying not to judge trying not to judge trying not to judge!

- Goddamn I would really like to flush toilets paper down a freaking toilets. Vacations in Hong Kong excite me so much because there are few squat toilets and have toilet seat covers and it is CLEAN CLEAN CLEAN there. I swear to god this is why I keep getting really sick.

- Lifting weights at the gym does not make me manly or something frightening, nor the fact that I have muscle build. I have been doing weight training for years, it's not because of American nutrition or any freaky anything, it's because of long-term training.

- I understand this is very un-feminine here. I try to understand, but it really bothers the shit out of me, because when you think about it, when most diets don't consume enough calcium here, it really makes sense to work build muscle and strengthen body structure esp for women.

- I mention all this because it's very difficult for me to find dates here and am becoming starved for attention from men.

- I'm not Malaysian or Singaporean.

- Nor an HK-er, I don't even have a Cantonese accent nor speak it very well.

- Why yes we speak Chinese (and even Taiwanese and Hakka!) in America and have Chinese stuff.

- Just because I don't live with my relatives or have friends who are male does not make me a wench. They all live really far from the city center, and some of them are flat out crazy.

- This does not make me utterly unfilial. I hardly know these people, but anyone who denies the 228 incident existed and think I'm a wench for not living with them when own immediate family don't care and keeps telling me so repeatedly does not make for good company.

- Logistically speaking, I owe no civic duty improve the nation or become more Chinese because I'm not really from here. I'm pure 2nd gen and just plain dumb luck due to circumstances and social class I'm able to speak and read Chinese at near fluent levels. I have an undeniable connection and roots here, but it's not the same as being born and growing up here. Other than doing charity work (which I feel like I should try to do anywhere I live), I have no duty to help the sad rotten government or improve society or anything like that. If anything I'm all Chinatown and should go back to tutoring kids and working at hellhole non-profits if anything.

- Please stop asking me questions about America or English if you aren't gonna believe me anyways (due to yellow skin). Try to stop staring at foreigners too, it freaks people out after awhile.

- God please stop looking down on Southeast Asians. It's not as if White people can really differentiate.

ok this needs to stop now.

[hooligan]

I agree

[SunWuKong]

I'd rather be like the women in Central HK wearing power business suits around IFC running you over with her brief case screaming into her cell phone than cutesy anything (it's probably the most striking difference there, that and toilet thing).

that's one of the things i liked about HK girls, the loud rapid Cantonese. but then again it's fucking annoying if they're yelling at me with it.

I am not dying to find my perfect Korean/other Asian drama type man to rescue me, in fact it disgusts me that there are many people at the age of 25 would leave a job to pursue a relationship.

amen. fucking Asian TV dramas make drama queens out of all the girls that watch them religiously.

I am not trying/do not to lose weight. Just because I am not wafer-thin does not make me have any desire to be nor make me sad that I am not. In fact that scares me.

Why yes I'd like extra servings of that delicious food and lots of beer and mini-cigars to go around with it. k thanks.

i used to tell girls i knew in HK that they need to eat an extra bowl of rice. honestly, sometimes i think the girls hold themselves and each other to a higher standard of thin than the guys do. i blame the many female HK celebrities for being basically anorexic. i mean i understand you have to be skinny, but that doesn't mean you have to be skin and bones.

[Tao]

i don't understand what you were expecting going into this to begin with. of course you're ideas of femininity and values are gonna be different from those of the locals...you, me, almost everyone on yw is more american than asian. it definitely sucks that you have a harder time fitting in...but the reality of the situation is...you're not the same as them. Once you get over that fact, acceptance of their non-acceptance of you should be easier to deal with.

p.s. i don't mean to attack you in any way, i feel for ya i really do. it's just that the truth is we're all more american than we'd care to admit.

[AngryABCGirl]

that's one of the things i liked about HK girls, the loud rapid Cantonese. but then again it's fucking annoying if they're yelling at me with it.

Some of the people I use to hang out with back in America would do this while drunk and I would like "I don't understand your fast ching chong ching chong words in your dirty language!!" I really miss it.

But anyway, guys who go back to Asia have a lot more fun. A LOT MORE FUN. A lot of girls love them, way more than white guys might I add. The women, we're just over-muscled loud barbarians. You dirty men you. I'm just kidding. Kind of. Not bitter.

I'll add to the list. I am not a wench because I clearly state I want sex. Moving on.

[kimpossible]

Do they still have that fat white dude working the outside desk at 24 Hour Fitness? That shit cracks me up.

I will see your fatter than acceptable ass and raise you some white flubber and blonde highlights. I spent all Christmas break wondering why all the cabs were following me like sharks scenting blood on the water this year and not others. Occured to me when I got back it was because I looked whiter and was damn fat. I've never stuck out THAT much before.

[kimpossible]

i don't understand what you were expecting going into this to begin with. of course you're ideas of femininity and values are gonna be different from those of the locals...you, me, almost everyone on yw is more american than asian. it definitely sucks that you have a harder time fitting in...but the reality of the situation is...you're not the same as them. Once you get over that fact, acceptance of their non-acceptance of you should be easier to deal with.

p.s. i don't mean to attack you in any way, i feel for ya i really do. it's just that the truth is we're all more american than we'd care to admit.

you're not a woman. i'm not chinese, and i'm barely asian, but even i understand her. so shutup already. go lick someone.

[Tao]

you're not a woman. i'm not chinese, and i'm barely asian, but even i understand her. so shutup already. go lick someone.

i don't get it, how is that not a legit statement. she shouldn't kid herself to expect something unrealistic.

[Tao]

you're not a woman. i'm not chinese, and i'm barely asian, but even i understand her. so shutup already. go lick someone.

this has nothing to do with me not being a woman so i don't "get it." it sucks, i totally and utterly agree, it's a major double standard. my point is this is asia we're talking about, things just aren't going to be as progressive over there than here. that's all i'm saying. the sooner she realizes and comes to terms with it, the either and more pleasant she'll be in living there.

[AngryABCGirl]

i don't understand what you were expecting going into this to begin with. of course you're ideas of femininity and values are gonna be different from those of the locals...you, me, almost everyone on yw is more american than asian. it definitely sucks that you have a harder time fitting in...but the reality of the situation is...you're not the same as them. Once you get over that fact, acceptance of their non-acceptance of you should be easier to deal with.

p.s. i don't mean to attack you in any way, i feel for ya i really do. it's just that the truth is we're all more american than we'd care to admit.


I'm not denying that at all. In fact I was aware of this going in a long time ago as a Chinatown kid and why I had previous apprehensions. I think it's just starting to get to me more after many months of infectious tropical diseases and craving for pho. I even went to Vietnam. And I don't really care about the acceptance thing cause I'm not these people, and they are not me. We're related for sure, and with family and business ties here, I'm connected here, but it's not that simple.

Anyway, I know Asia is this weird mystical sacred place for all of us Asians in America especially for 1.5 gen-ers because I've come to realize many of ya'll are basket cases about your identity and belonging, and I'm not pointing at anyone on the board specifically,but rather though my interactions with many many people.

It's also not non-acceptance I'm dealing with. Rather it's a sort of an over-acceptance in some ways because because people think because I speak can speak and read Chinese, wear some fobby clothes, know some local culture, have black hair and brown eyes, got two hands and two feet that I think like them and expect me to do this and that when that makes rationally makes no sense given my background. Because I have a political science background, people think I am not being a jackass because I don't want to work for Taiwan and want to go back to America, when that really makes no fucking sense whatsoever. And it's not like one of two people, but MANY people cause the education system teaches people we're all supposed to love the home country. Yes, love my culture, like it here, know a lot about life here more than many 1.5 gen-ers because I've been here as an adult, but to logistical limits.

Really in other words, I want people to realize I'm more American. I have even intentionally tried to incorporate a more apparent American accent so people will leave me the fuck alone in some cases and pretend I don't know Chinese. I'm really irritated people don't think I'm from America because it severely interferes with my interactions with people. That's why I said I'm not Malaysian, goddamnit. People have demanded to know why can read English and complimented it despite me telling them over and over again I was born and raised in America. In fact I think it's offensive they think all ABCs are bananas who don't know Chinese which is why I mentioned wtf do people keep thinking I am from Southeast Asia.

Plus the main point I am making and ranting about in Asia are just more fucked up as a woman in 101 more ways both in the opinion of local women here and people like me, it's just a fact society is mover patriarchal. That's mainly what I'm talking about here. That's why the thread is entitled being Asian Am Woman in Asia.

I don't think most men realize patriarchal aspects in any society though because they don't have to deal with it. That's why I'm seeing why more and more women across the board from immigrant backgrounds including other Taiwanese women who emigrated from Taiwan as teenagers a lot less keen on coming back then guys. There's actually plenty of academic background written about this about Latino and Asian men and why they want to go back to the homeland more than woman because they've got more to gain and we've got more to lose in a lot of ways, and I"m really starting to believe that.

[AngryABCGirl]

this has nothing to do with me not being a woman so i don't "get it." it sucks, i totally and utterly agree, it's a major double standard. my point is this is asia we're talking about, things just aren't going to be as progressive over there than here. that's all i'm saying. the sooner she realizes and comes to terms with it, the either and more pleasant she'll be in living there.

I'm really wary of men who say they know what it's like to be a woman in any way shape or form. It's male priviledge and even gay men don't realize it sometimes. It's not just Asia, it's American society too. That's why I'm not too down with Asia guys calling us sellouts for dating White guys and saying we have it easy, when most of them can't begin to phantom what it's like to be on receiving end of racist cat-calls and thinking we're cheap easy military hoes. Or Asian girls who are constantly bullied in America with sexual overtures because of the idea we are truly the all-passive being. I don't think most men understand being threatened or treated that way. Ironically the only people who might be able to sympathize with that is gay asian men. That's patriarchy. That's why I keep posting in that godforsaken interracial thread because men should understand more about what women go through.

It's not like all women in Asia take it sitting down either by any means. Taiwan's actually very progressive in pushing for more women's leadership roles and in terms of foundations for women and even areas of gay rights and other areas like environmental protection. I'm pretty down with that, solid tangible things like this make me more proud of my heritage than being 龍的傳人. Just because things aren't as "progressive" in Asia doesn't mean I need sit down and just take it, because it's not like the women here are. A lot of men here are even pushing more women's issues awareness cause they know shit is fucked up.

I know you're gonna totally discount me cause I'm American and what not, but that's a pretty bull excuse to me and even a lot of men here, especially people in the younger generation after the macho adolescent phase will admit double standards are wrong. The fact I"m just talking about this in English on this board doesn't mean I've heard locals here talking about the same thing when girls get alone. They'd probably just never say it in front of you because they don't men would never listen. Again, patriarchy.

Maybe I should have put this in the woman folder. This rant wasn't about being Asian American in Asia. It was specifically about being an Asian American Woman in Asia.

[SunWuKong]

But anyway, guys who go back to Asia have a lot more fun. A LOT MORE FUN. A lot of girls love them, way more than white guys might I add. The women, we're just over-muscled loud barbarians. You dirty men you. I'm just kidding. Kind of. Not bitter.

I'll add to the list. I am not a wench because I clearly state I want sex. Moving on.

i can only speak for HK, and yeah i think it's easier to have fun if you're an Asian guy who "went back" to Asia from a western country. i don't want to generalise HKer girls though, because honestly, even though there are girls that i could impress just by speaking fluent English and taking her to a restaurant in Soho, there were also girls that thought that kind of shit is stuck up and don't like it. the former is easy pickings for a guy like me, but the latter is a lot more deserving of respect and make much better company in general.

however, having said that, i did know Overseas Chinese girls in HK who looked "feminine", and they could have a lot of fun. i guess i'm talking about the girly girls, if you will. they easily got guys attention for a combination of the fact that they dressed more skimpily than the average HK girls and because guys think westernised girls are slutty like white girls are and are easy to get into bed. but sure enough, unless you got that "feminine" look, it would be a lot harder to get guys' attention.

[AngryABCGirl]

If anything I'll make a better example.

Men's relative advantages turning into women's relative disadvantages.

Men making more money: Men who make more money attract more women.

Women who in turn, make more money, are threatening because some men will feel inaduquate because a woman makes more money than them and they can't play the breadwinner role they have been taught all their lives to take care of a woman.

Strong (physically and soulfully) assertive men attract women for the same reason.

Strong women of the same cut scare off men for the same reason.

Or take an Asian example: Many Asian countries are striving toward more globalized society- and to most people that means knowing more English and Western culture, which to be isn't really being global, but whatever:

Americanized Asian guy: Hot hot hot commodity. Hotter than White guys. Believe me I have witnessed many a time a dirty man turned down for a dirty ABC or 1.5 brother or even someone masquerading as one! (I'm sure someone is having a heart attack). He is both something familiar, but knows English and is Western and nice and tender more perceived to be more considerate and less patriarchal (HAHAHA like the western world is actually less patriarchal by much) and has different exotic yet familiar look.

Americanized Asian woman: Scary foreign loud assertive foreign woman. Probably bossy and been around too many men. Viewed as hot and exotic as some because of different yet familiar look and hot and sexy. Maybe good for a short term fling if not frightened off.

Are there any more women for the thread?

[Tao]

I'm really wary of men who say they know what it's like to be a woman in any way shape or form. It's male priviledge and even gay men don't realize it sometimes. It's not just Asia, it's American society too. That's why I'm not too down with Asia guys calling us sellouts for dating White guys and saying we have it easy, when most of them can't begin to phantom what it's like to be on receiving end of racist cat-calls and thinking we're cheap easy military hoes. Or Asian girls who are constantly bullied in America with sexual overtures because of the idea we are truly the all-passive being. I don't think most men understand being threatened or treated that way. Ironically the only people who might be able to sympathize with that is gay asian men. That's patriarchy. That's why I keep posting in that godforsaken interracial thread because men should understand more about what women go through.

It's not like all women in Asia take it sitting down either by any means. Taiwan's actually very progressive in pushing for more women's leadership roles and in terms of foundations for women and even areas of gay rights and other areas like environmental protection. I'm pretty down with that, solid tangible things like this make me more proud of my heritage than being 龍的傳人. Just because things aren't as "progressive" in Asia doesn't mean I need sit down and just take it, because it's not like the women here are. A lot of men here are even pushing more women's issues awareness cause they know shit is fucked up.

I know you're gonna totally discount me cause I'm American and what not, but that's a pretty bull excuse to me and even a lot of men here, especially people in the younger generation after the macho adolescent phase will admit double standards are wrong. The fact I"m just talking about this in English on this board doesn't mean I've heard locals here talking about the same thing when girls get alone. They'd probably just never say it in front of you because they don't men would never listen. Again, patriarchy.

Maybe I should have put this in the woman folder. This rant wasn't about being Asian American in Asia. It was specifically about being an Asian American Woman in Asia.

i guess my posts came off the wrong way. my point wasn't to discount your experiences. i wanted to just say that it's not like you can do anything to change the way ppl treat and make assumptions of you. you're only one person against a society...i mean frankly it's pretty futile. So the only way i can imagine you being happy living there is if you first come to terms with the injustice, and move on in spite of it. that's all i was saying. complaining about it...well it's sorta like ppl on here complaining about sell out asian girls....first, it's gonna happen anyways, second you're preaching to the choir...it's just better to roll with the punches..you know?

[deez nuts]

Anyway, I know Asia is this weird mystical sacred place for all of us Asians in America especially for 1.5 gen-ers

not for me it isn't.

my dad went back to china to meet with my uncle so just the two of them can tour areas of china recently. they stationed themselves in my uncle's penthouse in shanghai and went back and forth to bumblefuck hick areas in china. it was just a miserable experience he said in terms of dealing with the locals both in shanghai and in the bumblefuck areas.

his exact words were: "i love my country. but, my country doesn't love me" when he was talking to us about the whole experience while we were driving home from the airport. i told him to QQ more and nothing beats living in the united states. nothing. i damn well almost hit the car in front of me when he agreed with me cuz we usually argue about me not wanting to go back and visit. i knew he was a broken man at that point. i was tempted to kick him while he was down and tell him i told you so, but i didn't. i just basked in my victory that there will be no more harrassing me to go and visit china and taiwan on his part anymore.

[SunWuKong]

If anything I'll make a better example.

Men's relative advantages turning into women's relative disadvantages.

Men making more money: Men who make more money attract more women.

Women who in turn, make more money, are threatening because some men will feel inaduquate because a woman makes more money than them and they can't play the breadwinner role they have been taught all their lives to take care of a woman.

Strong (physically and soulfully) assertive men attract women for the same reason.

Strong women of the same cut scare off men for the same reason.

Or take an Asian example: Many Asian countries are striving toward more globalized society- and to most people that means knowing more English and Western culture, which to be isn't really being global, but whatever:

Americanized Asian guy: Hot hot hot commodity. Hotter than White guys. Believe me I have witnessed many a time a dirty man turned down for a dirty ABC or 1.5 brother or even someone masquerading as one! (I'm sure someone is having a heart attack). He is both something familiar, but knows English and is Western and nice and tender more perceived to be more considerate and less patriarchal (HAHAHA like the western world is actually less patriarchal by much) and has different exotic yet familiar look.

Americanized Asian woman: Scary foreign loud assertive foreign woman. Probably bossy and been around too many men. Viewed as hot and exotic as some because of different yet familiar look and hot and sexy. Maybe good for a short term fling if not frightened off.

Are there any more women for the thread?

yeah there's a lot of social climbing or perceived social climbing going on when the local girls are attracted to the westernised Chinese guy.

[Craig]

i guess my posts came off the wrong way. my point wasn't to discount your experiences. i wanted to just say that it's not like you can do anything to change the way ppl treat and make assumptions of you. you're only one person against a society...i mean frankly it's pretty futile. So the only way i can imagine you being happy living there is if you first come to terms with the injustice, and move on in spite of it. that's all i was saying. complaining about it...well it's sorta like ppl on here complaining about sell out asian girls....first, it's gonna happen anyways, second you're preaching to the choir...it's just better to roll with the punches..you know?hey, you nappy haired ho, she's hinting for you to take a trip to asia and start licking the locals ...

[AngryABCGirl]

i can only speak for HK, and yeah i think it's easier to have fun if you're an Asian guy who "went back" to Asia from a western country. i don't want to generalise HKer girls though, because honestly, even though there are girls that i could impress just by speaking fluent English and taking her to a restaurant in Soho, there were also girls that thought that kind of shit is stuck up and don't like it. the former is easy for pickings for a guy like me, but the latter is a lot more deserving of respect and make much better company in general.

however, having said that, i did know Overseas Chinese girls in HK who looked "feminine", and they could have a lot of fun. i guess i'm talking about the girly girls, if you will. they easily got guys attention for a combination of the fact that they dressed more skimpily than the average HK girls and because guys think westernised girls are slutty like white girls are and are easy to get into bed. but sure enough, unless you got that "feminine" look, it would be a lot harder to get guys' attention.

I do dress more skimpily than the girls do here, but I don't have the "feminine look" for here, there's no doubt about that because of the sports training I've done and because I'm just taller and have broader shoulders than almost all women here except really fat people.

Then again, kinda like you were mentioning, I don't want the dirty man who just wants sex. I've been hit on a lot for the very reason you mentioned, and it doesn't make me any happier than when White guys do it for the same reason when I'm Asian. Really it's the same stereotyping going on, and I really don't like it. I know I've been making all the man jokes, but sex is one thing, something serious is another, I'm not looking for cheap monkey sex. All girls can get cheap monkey sex.

I'm also not trying to generalize and say all men here suck or anything, or all men suck or something. In fact I've met a lot of decent and pretty liberal-minded men who disagree with what I'm talking about just as much as I do which is why I'm not giving up on love or anything so to speak and make for better company.

But more what I'm endlessly ranting about now and need to sleep and not drink tea after 9pm so I can't sleep so I go on yellowworld and youtube and wikipedia... is more about the overriding notions of feminity here and how it's not easy for a lot of women. I'd hate to be a women athlete in this here unless I got famous and then suddenly allowed to be hot like those Taiwan tennis girls that played in the Aussie open.

Maybe I'm just really upset no one wants to play sports with me, and I have to work out with this Russian(!?! don't even know european woman) at the gym to spot each other cause we're the only ones doing serious weight lifting. We can't even communicate, it's hilarious. But it's what comes down to.

Also I'm allowed to rant about women's stuff and not have this whole men's judgment thing.

[SunWuKong]

not for me it isn't.

my dad went back to china to meet with my uncle so just the two of them can tour areas of china recently. they stationed themselves in my uncle's penthouse in shanghai and went back and forth to bumblefuck hick areas in china. it was just a miserable experience he said in terms of dealing with the locals both in shanghai and in the bumblefuck areas. his exact words were: "i love my country. but, my country doesn't love me" when he was talking to us about the whole experience while we were driving home from the airport. i told him to QQ more and nothing beats living in the united states. nothing. and i finally got him to agree. i damn well almost hit the car in front of me when he agreed cuz at that point i knew he was a broken man and there will be no more harrassing me to go and visit china and taiwan on his part.

hahhah that's funny.

but yeah, for me HK is not some mystical sacred place. actually everything about HK gives me a sense of familiarity that i really don't get anywhere in the US because i've been moving around up and down the East Coast. and i do like living in HK more, yes deez nuts, even more than i would like NYC. honestly it's a lot more modern, especially when i think about how old the buildings are that people in NYC live in and how smelly the subway is. but i'm sure NYC lovers will say that's what gives the city "character". the only thing is, i can't make as much money in HK nowadays as compared to the US.

[CBC guy]

Actually in Mainland China when I went back I was considered "cool" and "exotic" whenever I exhibited "North-Americaness" (using english slang like "dude, yo, wassup" etc) and my students clapped for me when I addressed them in Mandarin AND Cantonese. Great times, but then I am a guy so I guess it's a bit better.

[AngryABCGirl]

not for me it isn't.

my dad went back to china to meet with my uncle so just the two of them can tour areas of china recently. they stationed themselves in my uncle's penthouse in shanghai and went back and forth to bumblefuck hick areas in china. it was just a miserable experience he said in terms of dealing with the locals both in shanghai and in the bumblefuck areas. his exact words were: "i love my country. but, my country doesn't love me" when he was talking to us about the whole experience while we were driving home from the airport. i told him to QQ more and nothing beats living in the united states. nothing. and i finally got him to agree. i damn well almost hit the car in front of me when he agreed cuz at that point i knew he was a broken man cuz we usually argue about it. there will be no more harrassing me to go and visit china and taiwan on his part.

I'm glad your dad did this and got it to his head. I'm glad you do too actually. Don't even get me started on the whole ridiculous China homeland fixation thing here some second generation here 外省人 here. You've become a Taiwanese being, you might not be like the 土雞 you fucking hate, but stop with 我們是中國人 crap already. GOD. It's so sad. Especially since most of the Mainland is a burning hellhole compared to Taiwan. It's like WHY. I want my mom to have that experience so she'll stop it too.

I tie this into the thread with my crazy family rant and how some members of my family are like this and you mix this with the native Taiwanese people in my family and it's like shit is exploding. Why I don't choose to live in the fucking boonies where there is only betel nuts with them.

[CBC guy]

As for HK its not "exotic" at all, its definitely more modern than Vancouver

[SunWuKong]

Then again, kinda like you were mentioning, I don't want the dirty man who just wants sex. I've been hit on a lot for the very reason you mentioned, and it doesn't make me any happier than when White guys do it for the same reason when I'm Asian. Really it's the same stereotyping going on, and I really don't like it. I know I've been making all the man jokes, but sex is one thing, something serious is another, I'm not looking for cheap monkey sex. All girls can get cheap monkey sex.

this is a different factor then. a lot of guys love that cheap sex, and that's what constitutes as "fun" for them. but, for example, i have no delusions about what's really going on in that local girl's mind when i noticed that she became more chatty with me after finding out that i'm a returnee and have an American visa. cheap sex, i could find. but i'm not one to play all those drama games that local girls expect of a guy when she's in a serious relationship with him. a lot of these girls think i'm loaded just because i was from the US. but shit, my family immigrated because we got sponsored by my aunt, not because we got money. i got pretty tired of firstly the financial high maintenance of local girls when you're first getting to know them, and then the emotional high maintenance of the local girls when they're finally into you. actually at the end of my stay in HK, i only wanted to get with Overseas Chinese girls because so many local HKer girls want to be treated like princesses.

i definitely won't discount your own personal experience, but quality serious relationships are not necessarily easy to come by for the Asian guy that "went back" either, unless you don't mind a girl that just aspires to be a kept woman (which i don't) and thinks your visa is part of what makes you attractive. and this is not to generalise local girls in Asia, but when you've got an American/Canadian/Australian visa, you attract more of these kinds of girls.

[deez nuts]

hahhah that's funny.

but yeah, for me HK is not some mystical sacred place. actually everything about HK gives me a sense of familiarity that i really don't get anywhere in the US because i've been moving around up and down the East Coast. and i do like living in HK more, yes deez nuts, even more than i would like NYC. honestly it's a lot more modern, especially when i think about how old the buildings are that people in NYC live in and how smelly the subway is. but i'm sure NYC lovers will say that's what gives the city "character". the only thing is, i can't make as much money in HK nowadays as compared to the US.

all my family in china and taiwan says hong kong sucks now. but, hey you should move back then if it feels like home for you. i mean you've been pining about moving back since i've known you on yw. as for me, i'm hopefully moving down to north carolina. yeee-haw!

[CBC guy]

Hey dude Hong Kong rocks my world babay!!!! :D

[pikachupacabra]

My family just went to Xinjiang, and after only going to places like Shanghai, Beijing, Xi'an, Guilin (even tho that was kind of podunk) and of course, HK, that trip really gave them a more realistic look at what China mostly is. I.e. a barren, undeveloped, alien landscape with totally 3rd world people. Really, even the developed areas on the coast still are culturally and mentally 3rd world, even if they have all the fancy gadgets and cosmopolitan possessions. It might take more than one generation AAG, most of this is extremely recent for the people living there.

Again, as a AAM my perspective is skewed, but I try to liken it to being AA; trying to apply how I'm treated negatively as an Asian to how women must be treated for being female. In that way I can try to relate.


Ok that doesn't make any sense, so let's try a different tangent.

Are there any AAM you can meet? Or do you tend to find that most of the AAM who go back to the motherland have no interest in AAF (due to wanting to go "native" or something?)

[SunWuKong]

all my family in china and taiwan says hong kong sucks now. but, hey you should move back then if it feels like home for you. i mean you've been pining about moving back since i've known you on yw. as for me, i'm hopefully moving down to north carolina. yeee-haw!

the economy is really struggling. but what can i say, i love the city. i make more money in the US though, so for the time being, i'm here.

[Craig]

all my family in china and taiwan says hong kong sucks now. but, hey you should move back then if it feels like home for you. i mean you've been pining about moving back since i've known you on yw. as for me, i'm hopefully moving down to north carolina. yeee-haw!damn southern redneck ;-)

[AngryABCGirl]

i guess my posts came off the wrong way. my point wasn't to discount your experiences. i wanted to just say that it's not like you can do anything to change the way ppl treat and make assumptions of you. you're only one person against a society...i mean frankly it's pretty futile. So the only way i can imagine you being happy living there is if you first come to terms with the injustice, and move on in spite of it. that's all i was saying. complaining about it...well it's sorta like ppl on here complaining about sell out asian girls....first, it's gonna happen anyways, second you're preaching to the choir...it's just better to roll with the punches..you know?

I'm not blaming anything other my own circumstances like the IR thread does though you know that pretty much points the fingers at Asian girls making rather uninformed opinions going WHY DO ONLY ASIAN WOMEN HAVE THIS PROBLEM WITH THEIR MEN YADA. I think I deserve a little more credit than that.

I didn't really notice your post until Kim pointed it out actually, I'm not particularly irked by your standpoint, but rather how men view these things. Plus what I've complained about other than people don't believe I know English or I'm not from Southeast Asia or serving Taiwan crap, which I've realized I've had to resign to as a foreigner despite annoyances, the women's issues I've complained about the same stuff Taiwanese women complain about on the radio, TV shows, and in between themselves here. I just have an extra layer of layer of stigma because I'm a returnee and that's the reason for everything when I'm just pointing out shit everyone can see and because I experience more of it because I don't fit in to physical norms more apparently.

You hear a lot of the justification for misygony in general for anything pointing outside out of White North American or Western European norms, "Oh it's the culture, it's just the way it is" when that's really crap anywhere across the board and halts progress everywhere.

Why did I have caffeine at night.

[SunWuKong]

You hear a lot of the justification for misygony in general for anything pointing outside out of White North American or Western European norms, "Oh it's the culture, it's just the way it is" when that's really crap anywhere across the board and halts progress everywhere.

a lot of justification for racist attitudes toward darker skinned people, too.

[AngryABCGirl]

all my family in china and taiwan says hong kong sucks now. but, hey you should move back then if it feels like home for you. i mean you've been pining about moving back since i've known you on yw. as for me, i'm hopefully moving down to north carolina. yeee-haw!

I don't know wtf the Taiwanese people, not to mention Mainlanders, are talking about when they say Hong Kong sucks when it makes Taipei, not to mention Taiwan, and New York, look like a fucking trash can. I'm a Hong Kong fan, I admit it, place gave me some of the best friends I have that I will have for life and crazy memories. Taipei with all the goodness came with a crazy family, diseases, terrible weather, the only the food is better and cost of living is cheap cheap cheap and that I can speak the language.

I think I could rock that power business suit and loud and crazy easier in HK, plus people are a lot more whatever about foreigners and it's more international. Plus no crazy expectations. But I would be broke, so damnit.

[yoMAMA]

Don't even get me started on the whole ridiculous China homeland fixation thing here some second generation here ??? here. You've become a Taiwanese being, you might not be like the ?? you fucking hate, but stop with ?????? crap already. GOD. It's so sad. Especially since most of the Mainland is a burning hellhole compared to Taiwan. It's like WHY. I want my mom to have that experience so she'll stop it too.



you guys are lucky in taiwan, never had the 30 years of hell unleashed on us like mao did on the mainland.

[deez nuts]

the economy is really struggling. but what can i say, i love the city. i make more money in the US though, so for the time being, i'm here.

a few of my cousins and sons/daughters of family friends in the computer industry took the offer by their companies to work in hong kong and eventually went to other cities in china while still getting paid the same amount if not more to their american salaries. my brother got an offer to go there too awhile back with slightly more pay. but, he wasn't interested.

I don't know wtf the Taiwanese people, not to mention Mainlanders, are talking about when they say Hong Kong sucks when it makes Taipei, not to mention Taiwan, and New York, look like a fucking trash can.

i have no clue. i haven't been back to taiwan in ages and never been to hong kong. i really don't have an opinion on the matter. but, that's what they say. maybe it's not a weird mystical sacred place for them?

[kimpossible]

this has nothing to do with me not being a woman so i don't "get it." it sucks, i totally and utterly agree, it's a major double standard. my point is this is asia we're talking about, things just aren't going to be as progressive over there than here. that's all i'm saying. the sooner she realizes and comes to terms with it, the either and more pleasant she'll be in living there.

Oh for crying out loud. She's just venting. We've all needed to regardless of what the subject is.

[AngryABCGirl]

you guys are lucky in taiwan, never had the 30 years of hell unleashed on us like mao did on the mainland.

It's a really good point. Taiwan went through some pretty awful shit that's not as publicized, but it's not the same. Maybe HK is just great cause it had it a bit easier- but I don't know enough easier to say that and it's really unfair to say that.

But those experiences that really separate HK and Taiwan people from China too. It's very powerful collective memory for the experiences of all who grew up in the generation in China. While you can say it's powerful for all Chinese people, it'll never be visceral for those of us who had no direct ties. It's why people have turned out so different. It's kind of also why I mention the people who left Taiwan after the war have weak ties to China because they don't have this collective experience, but rather the collective experience of martial law in Taiwan as legacy instead of Mao.

This has nothing to do with the thread. Oh well. It's 5 am and I want to go to bed. Why did I have so much tea.

[SunWuKong]

a few of my cousins and sons/daughters of family friends in the computer industry took the offer by their companies to work in hong kong and eventually went to other cities in china while still getting paid the same amount if not more to their american salaries. my brother got an offer to go there too awhile back with slightly more pay. but, he wasn't interested.

yeah, a lot of the business is going to mainland China, especially Shanghai. and if i do go back, it would have to be to work at a multinational company. because there's no way i'm going to work that half day on Saturdays and fuck all the office drama that plague a lot of local companies. that and local companies won't pay as well.

i have no clue. i haven't been back to taiwan in ages and never been to hong kong. i really don't have an opinion on the matter. but, that's what they say. maybe it's not a weird mystical sacred place for them?

i'd believe it that they think that. the development is in mainland China right now. HK is just struggling to not fall behind. of course, a lot of the old people also won't like HK because of the western influence.

[deez nuts]

of course, a lot of the old people also won't like HK because of the western influence.


actually they use to like hong kong. they didn't start saying this till hong kong went back under china's control.

[SunWuKong]

actually they use to like hong kong. they didn't start saying this till hong kong went back under china's control.

hahhah ok. maybe because so many people in HK think Ah-Bian is a fucktard and that Taiwanese politics is a joke. although to be fair, they also think HK politics is a big sham right now.

[deez nuts]

I do dress more skimpily than the girls do here, but I don't have the "feminine look" for here, there's no doubt about that because of the sports training I've done and because I'm just taller and have broader shoulders than almost all women here except really fat people.

just bask in the hypothetical glory that you can kick their asses.

[Tao]

Oh for crying out loud. She's just venting. We've all needed to regardless of what the subject is.

all right geez!

[deez nuts]

hahhah ok. maybe because so many people in HK think Ah-Bian is a fucktard and that Taiwanese politics is a joke. although to be fair, they also think HK politics is a big sham right now.

all my parents and relatives don't like ah bien and do think taiwanese politics is a joke. they were happy when china regained control of HK. but in terms of living there, they just say it's been on the decline and they go to hong kong to visit and for business a lot.

you're probably looking from the point of view where hong kong holds more nostalgic sentimental value from when you were living there whereas they are looking at it in terms of standard of living and economics.

[AngryABCGirl]

Ok that doesn't make any sense, so let's try a different tangent.

Are there any AAM you can meet? Or do you tend to find that most of the AAM who go back to the motherland have no interest in AAF (due to wanting to go "native" or something?)

You've got it. It's too easy for them. It's slim pickings too just because there aren't many even if they want AAF because it's hard to find someone suitable out of a tiny sample. I think a lot of them secretly want an easier to deal with girlfriend that will worship them anyway. Plus most returnees are 1.5 gen in general, so I think a lot of them want the nice idealized version of the nice Taiwanese girl they had in their head when they left to America (I've seen this so much and it's crazy).

But the biggest issue is not the dating thing, but it's the one thing I've managed to hilariously power this thread, whoops. It's more the general expectation of women that supposed to be cute and needing to be rescued here, reinenforced by pop culture portrayals etc. A lot of it picked up from Japan actually. It feels very different in HK and Singapore actually even with the cutesy crap culture there too.

I think it's all just making me feel like an amazon woman when I really just want to gain muscle to be healthy and play sports (and the girls here seriously need to do, I will be laughing when I don't have osteoparosis) or a banshee ho because I am loud and straightforward and like drinking it up at a bar and having a lot of platonic male friends.

Ok I'm going to bed soon. Done ranting about this for today. Hitting the weight room in a few hours with European woman.

[AngryABCGirl]

hahhah ok. maybe because so many people in HK think Ah-Bian is a fucktard and that Taiwanese politics is a joke. although to be fair, they also think HK politics is a big sham right now.

Both is true. Taiwanese politics is a even a joke to a lot of people here too. That's what makes it sad. Politicians are bunch of fucking idiots. So are the people putting them in office. I'm surprised so many things function so well here despite it.

HK politics seems like a big sham now too though, but not too much at fault of most HK people. Ya'll just don't seem to have a choice. It's okay, I believe you in Hong Kong. Still got better than chances of Taiwan does at digging it's sorry ass out of its hole I think because Hong Kong is waking up to adapt to it's situation, Taiwan is still dead asleep.

Add that to my rants about being here. I'm not sure if the news is supposed to made me sad or laugh.

[AngryABCGirl]

just bask in the hypothetical glory that you can kick their asses.

That's just not fair. It's like throwing a bowling ball at pins.

[deez nuts]

have angry grudge sex with a local and attempt to break him in half is my solution to you.

[SunWuKong]

Both is true. Taiwanese politics is a even a joke to a lot of people here too. That's what makes it sad. Politicians are bunch of fucking idiots. So are the people putting them in office. I'm surprised so many things function so well here despite it.

right. but sometimes it's different when outsiders are criticising your own, versus you crticising your own.

[SunWuKong]

But the biggest issue is not the dating thing, but it's the one thing I've managed to hilariously power this thread, whoops. It's more the general expectation of women that supposed to be cute and needing to be rescued here, reinenforced by pop culture portrayals etc. A lot of it picked up from Japan actually. It feels very different in HK and Singapore actually even with the cutesy crap culture there too.

don't know about S'pore, but i've met so many local girls in HK that just want to be kept women when they get married. although to be fair, i think for a lot of them, it's not so much that they think it's their role, it's just that they don't want to work. in reality though, i think most wives in HK hold down fulltime jobs unless they snatched pretty well-to-do husbands. mostly because they need to in order to keep up the HK middle class lifestyle.

as for wanting women to be "cute", i'm pretty sure that's the ideal for a lot of HK guys.

[VV o n g B a]

- Lifting weights at the gym does not make me manly or something frightening, nor the fact that I have muscle build. I have been doing weight training for years, it's not because of American nutrition or any freaky anything, it's because of long-term training. surely it sucks for your other points, but i find it hard to sympathize w/ u here when ur attitude towards the local men has been something like, "i can break most of them in two." if u hold that attitude, how can u expect not to come off as unfeminine?

[Banana]

If you don't mind me asking, why did you decide to go back to Asia? Also, you make it sound like like you're one of those professional female bodybuilders.

Eh, I give AngryABC some slack. I've noticed that many guys there could easily be mistaken for a girl. It's so bad that when one takes off his shirt and is built, they automatically know you're an ABC.

[AngryABCGirl]

don't know about S'pore, but i've met so many local girls in HK that just want to be kept women when they get married. although to be fair, i think for a lot of them, it's not so much that they think it's their role, it's just that they don't want to work. in reality though, i think most wives in HK hold down fulltime jobs unless they snatched pretty well-to-do husbands. mostly because they need to in order to keep up the HK middle class lifestyle.

as for wanting women to be "cute", i'm pretty sure that's the ideal for a lot of HK guys.

I don't doubt you at all actually, its all a matter of scale. It's still quite different than here though from my perspective based on what I've seen and people I met in comparison. It might be the product of just a faster and more competitive environment though in HK. I have to say a lot, but not all, the reason why economy is sucking here is because people aren't cutthroat enough and are plan lazy. You're right, people work cause they have to though. Overall I think HK people have a much higher standard of living than people here in terms of goods available,housing in the urban areas, sanitary conditions etc. but people are definitely paying the price for it in work.

Oh crap, I can't sleep and the sun is up. This is going to a terribly long day today. Maybe I should just take the day off. Good lord it's humid and hot already at 6 am.

[kimpossible]

If you don't mind me asking, why did you decide to go back to Asia? Also, you make it sound like like you're one of those professional female bodybuilders.


Muscle tone in a woman is largely an American quality for physical attractiveness. The rest of the world is pretty much eww including Europe. Or to be honest, so I hear Asian and European (not American) mean say. I'm a female and American so I can only get it secondhand like that.

[AngryABCGirl]

surely it sucks for your other points, but i find it hard to sympathize w/ u here when ur attitude towards the local men has been something like, "i can break most of them in two." if u hold that attitude, how can u expect not to come off as unfeminine?

I didn't say I didn't. I'm more annoyed at generalized notions of feminity here because I don't think it's good for women in general, women here don't think it's good for women in general, and I get extra stigma about that because I'm a returnee. The fact is most of the people replying to this thread are men and have tons of (negative) assumptions about ABC people going back and don't know anything about being a woman, and honestly most of my complaints involve that than anthing. I don't think you'd all be jumping all over my ass if I was a 1.5 gen-er as much even though a lot of those women have the same opinions as me for similar reasons. But you know what it doesn't really matter, those issues are more all of your guys' issues and less mine.

I've gotten over the foreigner thing- it's still annoying but it's not as annoying than this. Honestly it's not as bad as how Asians in America complaining about a lot of things, which Im guilty of doing myself, not so different. Like I said a billion times before, it's not like Taiwanese women don't have the same quips as me, I'm just a lot more obvious, and as this thread shows, easier to be pointed out and picked out.

Plus it seems like the only people on this board who have spent a lot of time to Asia as adults are SWK, Kim, Alibaba (where is he these days?), Paradox, and Kim, making one woman, who probably doesn't resemble me physically very much considering the white skin and blond hair thing, I'm gonna take their stuff more seriously. Despite my body type, depending what I wear and cover up my arms, I can walk around undetected because I know how to carry myself without sticking out like a sore thumb.

But I know I come off as unfeminine purely because I'm physically bigger and have more muscle build than a lot of people here, and I meant that "break men in half comment" previous comment in jest and pure physical proportions in the women's thread because someone talked about skinny guys in the earlier thread and it was reply in jest. TAKE A FREAKING JOKE. My cousins are like this too, and I mean the ones born and raised here are big people. I'm just a lot more exageratted because of different physical conditioning- especially at the gym. Plus it's like not I don't find the local men attractive - which I stated before, but many are disportionate to me and I'm disportionate to them, and that's a fact. I was joking around in the womens' thread too, I'm secure enough to date a man smaller than me, most men aren't though. But hey I'm down.

And notice how the thread turned into a dating thing right away because I mentioned the patriarchy thing when I used some examples about relationships when my first posted talked about how I don't want want a rescue man relationship and joked about how I'm starved male attention? And have said several times in previous posts on different discussions I'm not looking for a serious relationship and just joked around about getting ass?

I'm seeing a lot of baggage spew out here that's not me and liked how all of you got really sensitive about that quip. Sorry to the skinny Asian guys I offended, you're still hot. I check you everyday. In fact I still watch inane music videos and tv shows to do so. In fact I'm probably one of the few self-identified Asian Am women would seriously consider having a relationship and has had a relationship with someone not born here. But that's the first thing you pull out and blame my feeling unfeminine on me and not by body being able to conform, to what quite frankly are pretty sexist norms regarded so even by local Taiwanese. Have I not said this 800 times.

I'm too tired to keep track of what Im saying anymore.

[AngryABCGirl]

If you don't mind me asking, why did you decide to go back to Asia? Also, you make it sound like like you're one of those professional female bodybuilders.

Eh, I give AngryABC some slack. I've noticed that many guys there could easily be mistaken for a girl. It's so bad that when one takes off his shirt and is built, they automatically know you're an ABC.

I've always wanted to, and now I had the chance. And here I am until back for college part II, grad school. I actually really like it here, make no mistake about it, otherwise I would have gone back. But everything comes with a price. My health problems are the main thing that's really getting to me right now and why I'm probably suddenly very irritated.

And many guys mistaken for a girl is way worse than my quip about breaking skinny men in half. Masculinity and being an attractive man doesn't equal muscles here. A lot of women here find it gross. I don't mind so much. But I dream of Yul Kwon and Daniel Wu all day.

I'm not a body builder type at all anyway. I"m pretty average in America compared to any female althete who is really serious, it's just a striking enough different from most women combined with height and weight that makes it really stick out.

And it's not the shirt thing they know you're an ABC. There are a lot of really buff built local guys too who take their workout seriously who look great. ABCs just stick out like a sore thumb due to body language, looking a bit different, fashion, and bewildered looks of wonder and glee. I can see my fellow ABC from miles away, but for some reason they can't see me until I"m like "dude bro, I speak English, aite?" A lot of Taiwanese can't see me either. Been here too long, am now just manly funny looking girl.

[deez nuts]

I don't think you'd all be jumping all over my ass if I was a 1.5 gen-er as much even though a lot of those women have the same opinions as me for similar reasons. But you know what it doesn't really matter, those issues are more all of your guys' issues and less mine.


i don't know if what i posted you perceived as me jumping all over your ass. but if you perceived it as such, rest assured that my response would stll be very much similar to what i posted with you if you were a 1.5 gen and even a 1.5 gen male.

and for the record, i have no doubt you can probably break an asian male over there in half. for the most part, they are generally very skinny and frail looking. like i've said before in the past, they probably make better looking chicks than guys in terms of western standards.

[AngryABCGirl]

i don't know if what i posted you perceived as me jumping all over your ass. but if you perceived it as such, rest assured that my response would stll be very much similar to what i posted with you if you were a 1.5 gen and even a 1.5 gen male.

No I enjoyed your posts. Thank you. Although you are nearing dirty old man level with some of your replies on the IR thread. Aren't I like jailbait to you?

[AngryABCGirl]

nah you're over 18.

now I'm just kind of disturbed.

[deez nuts]

now I'm just kind of disturbed.

don't be disturbed, i've hooked with younger chicks over the age of 18 and under the age of 20 than you. just be flattered. i am quite the catch no matter what age the woman is.

[AngryABCGirl]

don't be disturbed, i've hooked with younger chicks over the age of 18 and under the age of 20 than you. just be flattered. i am quite the catch no matter what age the woman is.

Borderline cradle-robber.

[deez nuts]

Borderline cradle-robber.

it was more of a short term loan. robbing would imply that i've kept her.

in regards to the topic. just enjoy your time there. fuck what they think. and i still stand by a good grudge fuck as a form of catharsis for you.

[SunWuKong]

ABCs just stick out like a sore thumb due to body language, looking a bit different, fashion, and bewildered looks of wonder and glee. I can see my fellow ABC from miles away, but for some reason they can't see me until I"m like "dude bro, I speak English, aite?" A lot of Taiwanese can't see me either. Been here too long, am now just manly funny looking girl.

yeah same with me in HK. i wasn't particularly up on the fashion trends, but i think me carrying a man-purse let me blend in with the locals. and the ABCs are so easy to spot for some reason. i don't know what it is.

[kimpossible]

and the ABCs are so easy to spot for some reason. i don't know what it is.


Why do you guys do this? Last time we went back my husband was all "Heykim, didja see the ABC didja-didja?" and I was all "No, strangely I must have missed it concentrating on getting around all the cars while I'm crossing the street with the baby."

I don't want to make him sound like his priorities are messed up as he's usually hyperprotective of us, even moreso in Taiwan, but it's like he sniffs them out if they're within sensing range. I'm oblivious to it but I could give a crap either way.

I mean, I have suitcases to jam until they're 500 lbs. and about to split at the seams. Who cares about ABC spotting.

[pikachupacabra]

Because once you see another ABC you suddenly realize you're not the special little butterfly you thought you were and now there's someone else there who shares your little secret?

[umichmed]

I'll add to the list. I am not a wench because I clearly state I want sex. Moving on.

I'm going back to taiwan this summer. You want to have sex? :biggrin:

[Tao]

^ LOL, karma!

[AngryABCGirl]

I'm going back to taiwan this summer. You want to have sex? :biggrin:

Pictures please.


Just kidding. Sex is attainable here.

[AngryABCGirl]

Why do you guys do this? Last time we went back my husband was all "Heykim, didja see the ABC didja-didja?" and I was all "No, strangely I must have missed it concentrating on getting around all the cars while I'm crossing the street with the baby."

I don't want to make him sound like his priorities are messed up as he's usually hyperprotective of us, even moreso in Taiwan, but it's like he sniffs them out if they're within sensing range. I'm oblivious to it but I could give a crap either way.

I mean, I have suitcases to jam until they're 500 lbs. and about to split at the seams. Who cares about ABC spotting.

I pika kinda does have a point, I think a lot of immigrants, including 1.5 gen-ers, in America go through a state of identity change and crisis because going anywhere else changes a person. I think they say see ABCs (generally 2nd gen Chinese people) or 3rd, 4th generational Asian Americans and get into a state of shock and panic about their own identity and what and their children might be become and think we're bad non-adherents to whatever Asian culture- when in fact it's a drastically different demographic groups and don't really belong in the same category. In Asia, people just assume people who look kind of like them should be like them, while I can only speak for Chinese people, Chinese people kind of think their culture is the shit and people acting non-Chinese like are bad bad bad babies when it's a ridiculous standard.

I noticed a lot of 1.5 gen-ers take this new a new level after some developed bitterness about immigrating, which admittingly sucks to do as a kid or a pre-teen and hang on to their authentic Asian identity in contrast to the culture around. ABCs are emblematic of absorbing that culture. Because they're relatively young when the emigrate though, they change/Americanize a lot more than 1st generation immigrants who come as adults.

Then they got back for a long period and some of them have a meltdown when people think they're ABCs and have accents with languages. Not all, but a lot of people who've been living a pipe dream and get all crazy defensive that I've met here. I once met this girl that moved somewhere to the East Coast when she was 12 demanded in a very hostile crazy manner why I knew Chinese in a really thick accent and looked like the most ghetto azn if I ever saw one.

But to the topic, spotting the ABC is just easy here. It's not like I go out of my way to do it cause that would be weird, but people stand out.

[Paradox]

I'm so glad that this thread was started. As usual i'm in agreement with what most of ABCgirl has to say about this subject. My sister spent around 5+ years in Malaysia when she was in her 20's. She was able to relate a lot of her experiences of being an Asian-American women in Asia as well. So i've been able to compare and contrast my own experiences with hers. In Malaysia it's probably far worse because they have a very conservative islamic culture on top of that. So there are religious AND cultural reasons why it's a patriarchal society. The Malays there even told her to "go back to her own country" because she was too outspoken at work once. :rolleyes: In Thailand it's not all fun and games all the time either but people who dress and act differently are more accepted overall. Noone cares if you dress like a butch asian woman there are plenty of "toms" here who have hot girlfriends so the worst case scenario is you'll get mistaken for being a lesbian. Even that's not bad because noone really gives a damn. Hell, i'd love to have a butch asian woman as a wingman at the club the toms seem to get the hottest girls. :wink: :biggrin:

I have had varied experiences in different countries. I have to say that the average AAF and AAM experience really is different in Asia. I can't say it's all rainbows and lollipops for AAM's either. There's a great deal of cultural misunderstanding at times. I am under no illusion that I fit in seamlessly with the culture. However, there is a certain amount of liberation in that once they know i'm an Asian-American they don't really have many expectations. I am free to think and live how I choose because it's a clean slate. Any prejudices in Asia towards returnees are still minute in comparison to the constant barrage of racial stereotyping and expectations in the U.S.

I've been to China too and the people there could never quite place me. Most of the time they figured I wasn't even Chinese to begin with. I definitely don't have the typical physical build of your 20ish Chinese person either because i'm stockier and more built. I do agree that most of the time it seems like the body language makes us different. I don't want to say it but Mainland Chinese really do shuffle when they walk and the men dress in awful sportcoats. Thais tend to walk around at a snail's pace in a zig zag pattern oblivious to what's around them. :biggrin:
ABC's have that focused American style powerwalk and when talk to people it is very "western" style in the approach.

[CBC guy]

I don't want to say it but Mainland Chinese really do shuffle when they walk and the men dress in awful sportcoats. Thais tend to walk around at a snail's pace in a zig zag pattern oblivious to what's around them. :biggrin:
ABC's have that focused American style powerwalk and when talk to people it is very "western" style in the approach.


That's so true! The people in Chengdu sport these really militaristic crewcuts even though they have no indication they ever want to join the PLA. Heck, you can go into a hairdresser's and say "ping tou" and they know exactly what you want: a Marine style crewcut, which isn't really what I want LOL. The old ladies shuffle about a lot, not so much the younger set, although they could stand to pick up the pace a little bit.

Americans have NOTHING on the Hong Kongers when it comes to powerwalking :biggrin: To this day I've only seen the "uber" powerwalk style in Hong Kong. (how they can walk so fast talking on a cellphone at high volume and bumping everyone on the way.)

both in PRC and HK though people noticed how I was so "individualistic" and my cousin in HK even said I was "greedy" because I was a tight fisted bastard. :biggrin: I wouldn't pay an extra $18 HKD for a dish of curry squid at a dimsum joint. No freaking way. :biggrin: The worst thing was she didn't say it directly to me, she said it to our grandma, who whispered it to my aunt, who finally broke the news when we got home. (I was staying at my grandma's, where my aunt was also staying to take care of her) Hey, I already paid for the whole meal, (I had agreed to pay for it beforehand) why should my cousin be so upset? And if she WAS upset, In my (North American gwailo) opinion she should have just told me she REALLY REALLY wanted that curry squid and I would probably have reluctantly coughed up the cash in order to save everyone's face. (I'm not TOTALLY clueless...:wink: )

All this shunning of straight talk and indirect communication makes it hard for a simple western-raised CBC like me (yes, I DO know Cantonese AND Mandarin). Its like a totally different world in Asia for AA's sometimes, even though I am fairly comfortable in Hong Kong and China.

BTW One of the (also CBC) girls in our church went to HK and China for a visit a few months ago and she kept having to put off advances by overly-ambitious men in the clubbing districts because she in fact DID meet the standards of Asian "femininity" and "cuteness". The scariest part was when she went to "party" in Lan Kwai Fong (HK) and these drunk Australian guys wanted to take her back to a "Love Hotel" for "services". They even tried to haggle a price, but my friend was so freaked out she just left LKF immediately and didn't go back.

Also, she doesn't know Chinese (well), and this ended up confusing a hell of a lot of people, especially on the Mainland. But she hasn't told me ALL her stories yet.

[AngryABCGirl]

Thanks for the reply. And sorry for railing on the boys here too, I was tired and bitter yesterday.

I'm like to go to other countries for longer periods of time and see how it is. I'd also have a clean slate there, it's admittedly a lot more complicated for me and I get a lot of expectations from people that I find ridiculous that I supposed to fulfill.

I'd also like to add one rant today. It really bothers me how women are really ashamed of their bodies here and push themselves to be thin and all this stuff when they're already probably medically unhealthly, but are ashamed to wear a swimsuit anywhere. The only people who wear skimpier clothes are extremely thin girls who quite frankly need to eat more or they're gonna have deformed malnourished babies. And stop fucking complaining you're hungry if you're not gonna eat. Plus I'm a wimp from California and it's like 100 degrees outside with humidity, I'm gonna dress down. People kept asking me why I didn't want to wear more to protect my pale-ass skin. But they're really telling me they think I need to cover my body up cause I'm not a rail. Fuck it.

The indirect communication is okay for me to deal with, because I deal with it hanging out with a lot of fobby people and living where I live back in the States, it only really pissed me off when my relatives tried to lecture me with it, and I don't think it was so much the indirect crap as it was that they're 1) crazy 2) expect me to transform myself into perfect Chinese girl. Plus I subconsciously do that shit too, 指桑罵槐, but I am hella more direct, no doubt about it.

Powerwalk is definitely the shit in Hong Kong though, old ladies be running be over. When I walked anywhere with my old HK roommates I felt like I had to run after them. Slow lazy Los Angeles non-walking ass I am. When I first got here I was like an SUV plowing through people, I've since turned it off but it comes back on sometimes.

[moser]

Plus I'm a wimp from California and it's like 100 degrees outside with humidity, I'm gonna dress down. People kept asking me why I didn't want to wear more to protect my pale-ass skin. But they're really telling me they think I need to cover my body up cause I'm not a rail. Fuck it.

They do have a thing against being "dark" (tan) though. My mom used to bust out the umbrella on sunny days so that she wouldn't get tan.

That's interesting about the thinness thing. My parents, who are FOB hyper-social-conservatives (this is the nice way to say it), were always screaming at me to not be so thin since "it's better to have too much than too little" - thing is, I was underweight but not medically unhealthy.

Ha, and just realized that their screaming was pretty damn direct. LOL

[Tao]

I'd also like to add one rant today. It really bothers me how women are really ashamed of their bodies here and push themselves to be thin and all this stuff when they're already probably medically unhealthly, but are ashamed to wear a swimsuit anywhere.

yeah my cousin in beijing is like that....she's like a fucking fetus, with her skinny body and big head.... that's how thin she is. and she's ungodly pale too. i love her and all, but she's definitely way too thin to be healthy. The problem is girls in general don't work out to lose weight, instead they just don't eat. here too, but especially in china where the fitness thing hasn't really caught on yet. their standard of beauty's pretty stupid in my opinion. the girls starve thmselves so much that they have no ass or boobs, and hide from the sun like vampires...it's a shame really.

[BeTheReds]

I'm sorry I didn't participate in this thread earlier, reading through it though, I think I've seen some progress in AngryABC. In the past it seemed like you had this attitude and anger all pent up inside because of what you had been through in the US and often it seemed like you looked at Asia like it were the promised land, where nobody hates anyone else and everything is the way it should be. Now having experienced Asia you see that it's a whole different set of problems. A lot of times, speaking as an Asian-american living in Asia (though notably a different circumstance) I found that there were many times when you simply could not understand what I was even talking about. Now I think you've progressed to the point where you truly are an international person.

This message isn't meant to be condescending or to suggest that I am or was once better than you, so please don't take it that way. Hang in there and don't take it hard, because there's more good out there than the bad.

[AngryABCGirl]

They do have a thing against being "dark" (tan) though. My mom used to bust out the umbrella on sunny days so that she wouldn't get tan.




You know people in America laugh at the umbrella thing. Then I discovered how hot it's actually here. I haven't given into it cause I'm too lazy to carry an umbrella, but it's fucking hot.

[AngryABCGirl]

I'm sorry I didn't participate in this thread earlier, reading through it though, I think I've seen some progress in AngryABC. In the past it seemed like you had this attitude and anger all pent up inside because of what you had been through in the US and often it seemed like you looked at Asia like it were the promised land, where nobody hates anyone else and everything is the way it should be. Now having experienced Asia you see that it's a whole different set of problems. A lot of times, speaking as an Asian-american living in Asia (though notably a different circumstance) I found that there were many times when you simply could not understand what I was even talking about. Now I think you've progressed to the point where you truly are an international person.

This message isn't meant to be condescending or to suggest that I am or was once better than you, so please don't take it that way. Hang in there and don't take it hard, because there's more good out there than the bad.

I think you've progressed too, you had a lot of anger at miscellanous Asian Am community stuff, I'm saying that cause I can't think of specific examples now, because of your times in college. Good lord I can't spell. Your scope seemed rather limited too because it was a specific experience you had in a particular place, but it seems like you've gotten over them too. I don't think you got a lot of the stuff I was talking about either cause I lived and interacted in really circumstances than you too. I don't mean that in a bad way at all either.

Sometime toward the end of my last year in college before I came here I had gotten over a lot of bitterness when I let go of a lot of emotional dead weight. I didn't post here as much cause I was working a lot back then, probably a reason why I lost the bitterness. Now I have time cause I am sick in my room and yeah, it's showing. I think I blamed a lot of person issues and pushed it on identity issues (a lot of people do), until I realize I was running in circles with that around bigger personal issues.

I have to say though, being in Asia back in the "home country" and not in another one is totally difference experience too because things are weighed differently, best I can describe it. Either way I like a lot of things about life here better in the States as of right now that's for sure, the relative non-hate, lifestyle, public safety is really nice and have less reasons to go back and more reasons to stay other than my primary concern now about my chronic health problems and the weather( I think is primary culprit of health problems) is the big thing right now cause I can't seem to get out of my health back up to par. Any tips you have would be great on that in the health thread.

Annoying women things are one thing I can't really tolerate anywhere though, period. That shit is straight up bad for everyone.

[kimpossible]

Been giving this some thought overnight. Mostly because I was up to nurse about ten times, *sips coffee*, but I've been ruminating on a move to Taipei for a while as you may all have seen anytime we have a live in Asia thread running.

I certainly don't want to hijack the thread to move it away from specifically Asian Am woman in Asia but I would very much like to have a full, interactive discussion about it with a lot of you either in this thread or another. What I'd be after is maybe tapping into your long term living experiences as both adults and Asian Americans. I don't really think any of us have the same race, gender or geographical location makeup but as a whole I feel it'll round itself out nicely.

I actually scoped out some ex-pat boards a month or two back and the needs and experience is just too different for it to be of practical use to me.

But these are some of the problems(? issues? pick a word) I've come across while in Asia:

*Why don't I wear more sun protection to protect my "pretty" white skin. I prefer sunglasses and a tan isn't a big thing to me. Though I learned the value of UV umbrellas a while ago. Fuggin hot.

*Only now, after 7 years of zipping around Taipei once a year am I allowed to make short trips outside by myself, i.e., no males. The one time I defied this was to stay over a girlfriend's house near TaiDa. This was probably more to do with me being a foreigner so I know that. But still. Dang.

*I'm far too butch but that's old news since I'm a tomboy by American standards.

*I've given up and say "Thank you" when I get a fork.

Skinny standards never really bothered me since frames of women are usually smaller. Plus I'm always around a lot of dancers who are both stronger, skinnier and more supple than the average girl around anyhow. No, gentlemen, do not PM me with requests to meet dancers.

Where it's both easier and harder for me than an ABC is that I'm not Chinese. There are both more stereotypes and a lower standard of expectations. Though I'm not really too much off the hook since I'm inside family and I married a guy. I get a lot of complaints that my Chinese is horrible and I think they scratch their heads wondering why and how I'm still so American. But with baby in their faces they've pretty much forgot to worry about that stuff.

Still, I know there are some serious challenges to living there as an ex-pat. I don't want to be trapped in an apartment having to hire a driver and maid while I take one of the endless offers to teach English.

PS - I will also miss wonderful, energy-sucking American dryers.

[AngryABCGirl]

Been giving this some thought overnight. Mostly because I was up to nurse about ten times, *sips coffee*, but I've been ruminating on a move to Taipei for a while as you may all have seen anytime we have a live in Asia thread running.

I certainly don't want to hijack the thread to move it away from specifically Asian Am woman in Asia but I would very much like to have a full, interactive discussion about it with a lot of you either in this thread or another. What I'd be after is maybe tapping into your long term living experiences as both adults and Asian Americans. I don't really think any of us have the same race, gender or geographical location makeup but as a whole I feel it'll round itself out nicely.

I actually scoped out some ex-pat boards a month or two back and the needs and experience is just too different for it to be of practical use to me.

But these are some of the problems(? issues? pick a word) I've come across while in Asia:

*Why don't I wear more sun protection to protect my "pretty" white skin. I prefer sunglasses and a tan isn't a big thing to me. Though I learned the value of UV umbrellas a while ago. Fuggin hot.

*Only now, after 7 years of zipping around Taipei once a year am I allowed to make short trips outside by myself, i.e., no males. The one time I defied this was to stay over a girlfriend's house near TaiDa. This was probably more to do with me being a foreigner so I know that. But still. Dang.

*I'm far too butch but that's old news since I'm a tomboy by American standards.

*I've given up and say "Thank you" when I get a fork.

Skinny standards never really bothered me since frames of women are usually smaller. Plus I'm always around a lot of dancers who are both stronger, skinnier and more supple than the average girl around anyhow. No, gentlemen, do not PM me with requests to meet dancers.

Where it's both easier and harder for me than an ABC is that I'm not Chinese. There are both more stereotypes and a lower standard of expectations. Though I'm not really too much off the hook since I'm inside family and I married a guy. I get a lot of complaints that my Chinese is horrible and I think they scratch their heads wondering why and how I'm still so American. But with baby in their faces they've pretty much forgot to worry about that stuff.

Still, I know there are some serious challenges to living there as an ex-pat. I don't want to be trapped in an apartment having to hire a driver and maid while I take one of the endless offers to teach English.

PS - I will also miss wonderful, energy-sucking American dryers.

I think I got the woman vent out. Whenever I get back to America or hop to another country I'll complain about that too. I don't miss overaggressive the grabby ass dirty men in America. Direspectful fuckas. Good lord my mother succeed me in turning me into a feminist.

First, they do have dryers here at nicer apartment complexes, at many of the new ones, and are purchasable. I wish I had one. I really highly recommend you to live in a newer building especially since you have a young child, because a lot of the old places here are filthy and our immune systems in America are really not up to par with dealing with it. I know a lot of expats like me living in more shoddy housing that have gotten seriously ill here or constantly sick.

Please wear sun block, the sun is pretty bad here. I've gotten a great tan though.

I think this is harder for you with overprotective family members and maybe harder for them to accept- but I think Taiwan hands down is a lot safer overall in America. It's not to say there aren't both petty and violent crimes, but overall it's just a lot better. There's not too bad "bad neighborhoods" to avoid and you don't have to be scared to wonder down a bad alley like you do in the States. Admittedly, it's quite different for me because I can blend in a lot more than you, but I have the impression crimes against foreigners are much rarer even because people don't to cause trouble for themselves. Being butch here will help you. Plus they expect white girls to be butch and a little meatier. I think I'm annoyed cause they expect me to go along with the body standard here and I should feel bad about it- but the fact is even if I stopped exercising, stopped eating, and lost weight, my body structure is so different that I'd still be a tank to the people here. You might win out on this one.

As an expat, to warn there's very few English services here. Even if you know Chinese, you want them once in awhile. Even I don't want my medical issues explained to me in Chinese, because how many of us can understand medical jargon in 100% English if not in the health profession. Also, to my knowledge the expat community and all its trappings aren't as developed as in HK, Singapore, or Shanghai, but it's really not an area I know about it, but might be useful for you. A lot of people can't speak perfect mandarin and it's hard for a lot of people to understand if they aren't use to hearing the Taiwanese accent. I met some other overseas non Taiwanese Chinese students here who mentioned it.

Also a lot of English schools here are really shady about pay and such with English teachers, try to go for a big legit organization like HESS or even try to go for a university or private school job.

I think the hardest challenge might be dealing with the family organization/structure/hiearchy here. I'll admit it's my number one failure and one of the biggest reasons why some members of my family emigrated in the first place- to get away from all that. But I have some really difficult relatives that most people here consider crazy and unreasonable. You might have to be ready go on someone's cruise control for awhile. It really all depends on your family though, but seriously get ready to really witness how family is the focal point and fear in everyone's life to a point near disturbing.

That's all I can think of for you relevant questions right now. But I'd really suggest for you to think about your move very carefully and spend more time in Taipei before you do it.

[kimpossible]

Truth be told I'm pretty spoiled. We have a family owned apartment waiting for us in a new and secure complex for government retirees. I get the posh existence while I'm there and I already have the hook up for doctors and whatnot. I only go through family as a network. The apartment is block down from wai-gung's place and we have all meals together there anyhow so I wouldn't even have to cook. Isn't that sad? All I have to do is show up. I eat. Maid cleans and lots of uncles and aunts play with the baby until he's tuckered out.

My real concern is independence. The American in me is very scared of having to depend on others for things like getting into a doctor. Going along the acclimation route we've been talking about a six month stint next. Enough for me to gauge if I, or we, can deal with Taiwan longer than that and also long enough for me to go through a language program. Maybe this makes me really weird but I'm dead set on going through a paramedic or EMT program before we go. I found a pediatrician that I like but I nibble my fingernails to nubs worrying about emergency services.

It's all a trade off I suppose. I should state that the only reason we're looking to go to Taiwan at all is so my son can spend more time with family. I was talking to Nuts about quality of life vs. family life in Taiwan. For quality of life, hands down, the US. But seeing my son so happy in a larger family and normalizing to those routines... I know how hard it was for me to go to Japan as an adult and socialize with family without the benefit of growing up with Japanese or life there. If I can make that happen do I have the right to take away that opportunity?

And I know it may not seem that important to bring him there now but morbid as it may be, who knows what will happen to my husband and/or me. He would be sent to family in Taiwan at that point because 'Dad' is moving eventually to Taichung. But that's a little out there and unlikely to happen. Regardless, he's a social boy. Flat out he loves the family life in Taipei. Check him out below. The other kid is his biao di so even if we don't have another he'll have someone to hang with his age and generation.

I think we'll be fine as a family if/when we move when it comes to material comfort - all things considered. The biggest unknown factor is me as an individual. Those are the things I ponder these days.

Ah, I dunno. Maybe I should just keep him in the US and put him through Chinese school. Safer. He can do summers in Taichung with gramps.

[BeTheReds]

I think you've progressed too, you had a lot of anger at miscellanous Asian Am community stuff, I'm saying that cause I can't think of specific examples now, because of your times in college. Good lord I can't spell. Your scope seemed rather limited too because it was a specific experience you had in a particular place, but it seems like you've gotten over them too. I don't think you got a lot of the stuff I was talking about either cause I lived and interacted in really circumstances than you too. I don't mean that in a bad way at all either.

Hmm, well most of my bitterness was towards people who claimed to be activists against racism, but in reality were racist themselves, people who think you have to look Asian to be respected, and the general hypocracy that the AAActivist scene was in my undergrad years. The scope limited? Perhaps... but that hasn't stopped me.

I have to say though, being in Asia back in the "home country" and not in another one is totally difference experience too because things are weighed differently, best I can describe it. I definately feel you there. Living in Japan, I felt more Korean than I ever had in my life. Living in Korea, I feel that everyone is trying to point out to me how I am not Korean more than any other time in my life. Our circumstances right now are obviously different because i'm not full blooded, but whatever, I think we can relate on a lot of stuff now.


Either way I like a lot of things about life here better in the States as of right now that's for sure, the relative non-hate, lifestyle, public safety is really nice and have less reasons to go back and more reasons to stay other than my primary concern now about my chronic health problems and the weather( I think is primary culprit of health problems) is the big thing right now cause I can't seem to get out of my health back up to par. Any tips you have would be great on that in the health thread.


In Seoul we have the yellow sand from china problem (at least that's what they call it) There's also a huge increase in boogers. I don't know what it's like where you are, but that's the case here. Have to say that it's pretty sanitary here though, so I've only been sick once. The thing I hate most is not having a dryer, but that's not a huge problem.

[SunWuKong]

I definately feel you there. Living in Japan, I felt more Korean than I ever had in my life. Living in Korea, I feel that everyone is trying to point out to me how I am not Korean more than any other time in my life. Our circumstances right now are obviously different because i'm not full blooded, but whatever, I think we can relate on a lot of stuff now.

is it because you're mixed? or because you're westernised? probably a bit of both, i suppose.

[BeTheReds]

Bit of both, but at the same time, better off than some expats...

[AngryABCGirl]

My real concern is independence. The American in me is very scared of having to depend on others for things like getting into a doctor. Going along the acclimation route we've been talking about a six month stint next. Enough for me to gauge if I, or we, can deal with Taiwan longer than that and also long enough for me to go through a language program. Maybe this makes me really weird but I'm dead set on going through a paramedic or EMT program before we go. I found a pediatrician that I like but I nibble my fingernails to nubs worrying about emergency services.

I think we'll be fine as a family if/when we move when it comes to material comfort - all things considered. The biggest unknown factor is me as an individual. Those are the things I ponder these days.

Ah, I dunno. Maybe I should just keep him in the US and put him through Chinese school. Safer. He can do summers in Taichung with gramps.


I think the independence thing really depends on you and your family I think based on a post you mentioned earlier about them being protective and how much you can live feeling semi-helpless (for a time) and out of control of certain situations, people staring at you,always talking to your husband instead of you, etc.

The public transit system in Taipei is great and practically idiot-proof once you know some basic Chinese, which I'm guessing should be no problem for you, certainly not after a language program so you should really be able to do what you want. Once you get the hang of things and know your way around, the taxi drivers won't rip you off either, most can kinda tell if you've been there for awhile even as a foreigner (I haven't been ripped off since the first month I was here) and if you complain most will cut dollars off the fare those days, far cry from the past. You can do the motor scooter thing, but it's really really really prone to injury, I wouldn't recommend it since you're a mother and don't want some back or knee injury or worse with a kid.

I know a lot of people who were born in the states who moved back to Asia as children or young adults who turned out fluent in both and near accent-less in both and turned out nicely bicultural. It all depends though. In terms of your son, it might be really beneficial for him to spend a few years of his life there, maybe as a pre-teen or a a teenager for the language thing, but I think it'd be really hard for you to relocate here, cultural things really get to you after awhile. I might be saying this because I am young and independent to a near inflexible and have no child and sense of sacrifice and hate anything impeding my learning and partying and will be fine for you.

But I have to say I am/was pretty sad about not being closer to my family here growing up. Other than me and my family, and a cousin and aunt, all family is here. While it's been really rewarding spending time with them now, they don't have the slightest chance I think of getting me or I of understanding them really. I am really sad I never got to know my grandparents here either and now they've passed on. Admittedly I don't have a strong sense of family connections or bonds, even though I'm glad to have them there and will always have ties here for this reason, I still don't feel very close to them- and my family has never pushed for me to have closer ties. I really do feel a sense that something is missing for me in that. I think I mentioned before, other than my chronic health problems- that feel a lot better today because I'm down south away from the humid polluted basin that is Taipei (maybe I should move here instead it's cheaper here), is that I have close friends from HK and I'd feel like I'm not alone there the way I feel like I'm really on my own here sometimes. So I do agree with you on the family ties part being very important.

[AngryABCGirl]

I definately feel you there. Living in Japan, I felt more Korean than I ever had in my life. Living in Korea, I feel that everyone is trying to point out to me how I am not Korean more than any other time in my life. Our circumstances right now are obviously different because i'm not full blooded, but whatever, I think we can relate on a lot of stuff now.

In Seoul we have the yellow sand from china problem (at least that's what they call it) There's also a huge increase in boogers. I don't know what it's like where you are, but that's the case here. Have to say that it's pretty sanitary here though, so I've only been sick once. The thing I hate most is not having a dryer, but that's not a huge problem.

Yeah I'd only ever spent extensive time in Mainland China before, which I don't have roots in. I think the culprit is the humidity plus dirtiness (I heard it's very clean in Korea), because I feel a lot better down south ere without the mugginess. I think I need to consider a location change in the upcoming months if I don't have improvements. Summer is the real test because that's when all the diseases really come out apparently. Thank god for nationalized healthcare system.

[BeTheReds]

(I heard it's very clean in Korea)

Hmm, well I don't really know if I can even say that's true. Comparing that to Japan I'd have to say no, but since I've never been to China and Taiwan, I have nothing to compare it to. Comparing the NYC subway to Seoul Subway though, Seoul is pristine.

[Paradox]

Hmm, well I don't really know if I can even say that's true. Comparing that to Japan I'd have to say no, but since I've never been to China and Taiwan, I have nothing to compare it to. Comparing the NYC subway to Seoul Subway though, Seoul is pristine.
China can be pretty dirty but for a country of that size it's expected and they do seem to take care of public spaces a lot better now. Xian and Shanghai were reasonably clean..no visible litter and they kept the public spaces and shops clean.

Taiwan is kind of dirty at times but it's not horrible.

Thailand is another story :eek:. Littering is unfortunately a way of life here. It's not unusual to see trash piles on the side of the road or dogs taking a dump in the middle of the congested sidewalk. Things are generally filthy and in a state of disrepair here.

[CBC guy]

PRC is still kinda dirty but steadily improving, at least in the big cities. I didn't see spitters in public anymore when I was there (Chengdu) and that's an improvement. Bathrooms still suck, but hey what can you do its expected LOL.

HK has cleaned up a lot since the SARS scare but there are still places that can scare people, like the staircase or bathrooms in Chungking Mansions.

WARNING: This pic is quite gross if you don't wanna see it DON'T CLICK ON IT. (Its a bathroom in Chungking Mansions, worse than any I've seen in China even.)

http://www.theplumber.com/images/toilets-chungking.jpg

[Deadpool]

I've seen worse. I used to stay at a rice farming village and all they has was a communal brick shit house. If you had to take a dumo during the night you risked getting bitten by bugs.
Ironically I enjoyed my stay in the country more than the cities.

[SunWuKong]

HK has cleaned up a lot since the SARS scare but there are still places that can scare people, like the staircase or bathrooms in Chungking Mansions.

WARNING: This pic is quite gross if you don't wanna see it DON'T CLICK ON IT. (Its a bathroom in Chungking Mansions, worse than any I've seen in China even.)

http://www.theplumber.com/images/toilets-chungking.jpg

ChungKing Mansions is the dirtiest place in HK. not just that, supposedly there's a lot of shady stuff that goes on there. most locals i know don't like going there. but they still have the best Indian food.

[AngryABCGirl]

ChungKing Mansions is the dirtiest place in HK. not just that, supposedly there's a lot of shady stuff that goes on there. most locals i know don't like going there. but they still have the best Indian food.

Maybe I'll visit next time I go there. My HK friends are pretty high up socio-economically and are appalled at the crazy shit I wander around to in HK by myself.

[AngryABCGirl]

PRC is still kinda dirty but steadily improving, at least in the big cities. I didn't see spitters in public anymore when I was there (Chengdu) and that's an improvement. Bathrooms still suck, but hey what can you do its expected LOL.

HK has cleaned up a lot since the SARS scare but there are still places that can scare people, like the staircase or bathrooms in Chungking Mansions.

WARNING: This pic is quite gross if you don't wanna see it DON'T CLICK ON IT. (Its a bathroom in Chungking Mansions, worse than any I've seen in China even.)

http://www.theplumber.com/images/toilets-chungking.jpg

I lived in a place for a little bit in Taiwan that had bathrooms almost as bad as to worse than that (depending on level of dirtiness at time). Made me want to die.

[Banana]

PRC is still kinda dirty but steadily improving, at least in the big cities. I didn't see spitters in public anymore when I was there (Chengdu) and that's an improvement. Bathrooms still suck, but hey what can you do its expected LOL.

HK has cleaned up a lot since the SARS scare but there are still places that can scare people, like the staircase or bathrooms in Chungking Mansions.

WARNING: This pic is quite gross if you don't wanna see it DON'T CLICK ON IT. (Its a bathroom in Chungking Mansions, worse than any I've seen in China even.)

http://www.theplumber.com/images/toilets-chungking.jpg

Oh, my fuckin' god.

[sageb1]

angryABCGirl is hot.

she is more sexy than the skinny Chinese girl talking in Cantonese on the bus until i wanna be bus uncle and say, "Nli hou mah, Hong Kong girl. Welcome to Canada!"

[sageb1]

once i was in the Chinese part of East vancouver near Nanaimo at a bus stop and both women, a young 21 yr old and an old 56 yr old could not and would not speak a word of English.

they just glared at me for 12 minutes until the bus came.

i felt at-risk, the anger was so "there".

[kimpossible]

I need to have a heart to heart with one of my girlfriends. She raised her kids in Taipei during their early years. But she's completely Type B and always telling me I worry too much.

Right now, the cons are winning.

Earthquakes (always fun)
Kidnapping
Cockroaches
Food safety scandals
Attack by mainland
Fires (shit was on fire close by last time I was there)
Medical services unknown factor

[deez nuts]

angryABCGirl is hot.

I'm going back to taiwan this summer. You want to have sex? :biggrin:

angryABC girl has two dudes wanting her. nice.

psssst.....choose the university of michigan med guy. just make sure it's not michigan state med

[AngryABCGirl]

I need to have a heart to heart with one of my girlfriends. She raised her kids in Taipei during their early years. But she's completely Type B and always telling me I worry too much.

Right now, the cons are winning.

Earthquakes (always fun)
Kidnapping
Cockroaches
Food safety scandals
Attack by mainland
Fires (shit was on fire close by last time I was there)
Medical services unknown factor

LOL, I think you just try it out for a three to six month stint and decide how you feel then since you're so serious about it. I am laughing because there 6 out 7 are problems in California in the good old US of A too. A bunch of rich Taiwanese kids were actually nabbed from my high school and held for ransom back in the day, fires/floods are everywhere in CA, medical services flat out suck in a lot of places- esp since I lived in immigrantville, earthquakes etc.

I don't think you'll really know if you want to stay long until you get here, can totally sense you freaking out. Most it will be cultural differences, and depending on where you live now, the weather and sanitary conditions. I think Taichung is actually a better place to live in a lot of ways, but not a lot of Western stuff. A lot of people I know who've come back here including myself, say it again, have had all kinds of weird health problems, mostly involving infections because of Taipei more than anything else. If you're from somewhere humid already I think you might be in much better shape. Crime rates and safety in general, even with the crazy traffic, are way way way better here. I've actually gotten more food poisoning/ills in LA, SF, and Sac-town because Chinese food restaurants are for the lack of anything better- run mostly now by dirty Mainlanders, than I have here. The food honestly isn't that dirty and way fresher than the States, it's just that a lot of other stuff is.

Economy is kind of hopeless though, if anything I doubt you will be here forever, if anything not ling enough for the mainland to come or some crazy shit like that.

[yoMAMA]

WARNING: This pic is quite gross if you don't wanna see it DON'T CLICK ON IT. (Its a bathroom in Chungking Mansions, worse than any I've seen in China even.)

http://www.theplumber.com/images/toilets-chungking.jpg

looks like any typical beijing public bathroom to me.

:wink:

[kimpossible]

Hey, I'm Type A.

add to the list: no cheap Minute Maid frozen orange juice. Sunkist orange 'drink' in a can won't do. lol.

By next week I'll be swinging around to Pros again.

[AngryABCGirl]

Hey, I'm Type A.

add to the list: no cheap Minute Maid frozen orange juice. Sunkist orange 'drink' in a can won't do. lol.

By next week I'll be swinging around to Pros again.

You can go to a fruit stand and watch them squeeze oranges by hand into bottles for you for like 50 cents. :biggrin: Shit that's one thing I love here. Fresh fruit juices as long as you tell them you don't want sugar. All fruits here are freaking delicious, it's the only benefit of tropical weather, that and the beaches.

[kimpossible]

I'm totally going to tell you my awesome intercontinental constipation story. It is time. When a day comes that you feel bad, and that day will come because summer is coming and all of Taiwan will be sending heated air conditioning exhaust back into the air and the misquitoes will be dining on your juiciness, you can say: hey, at least I'm not a big foreign monkey who had to go through THAT. One should very much laugh at the circumstances.

It involves wearing SPUNK, being full of shit and having news of my barfing in Australia reaching Taiwan long before we went back. And enemas. Enemas in teeny, tiny bathrooms. I shall need to provide a copy of the illustrated directions of a self-given enema.

Hmmm. I'll have to write this up in S&H so as to not pollute the womens' forum.

[Napoleon Chynamite]

yeah my cousin in beijing is like that....she's like a fucking fetus, with her skinny body and big head.... that's how thin she is. and she's ungodly pale too. i love her and all, but she's definitely way too thin to be healthy. The problem is girls in general don't work out to lose weight, instead they just don't eat. here too, but especially in china where the fitness thing hasn't really caught on yet. their standard of beauty's pretty stupid in my opinion. the girls starve thmselves so much that they have no ass or boobs, and hide from the sun like vampires...it's a shame really.

Picture?

[Tao]

Picture?

very funny hube, and no.

[yoMAMA]

Cockroaches


those things are nasty, and scary.

[CBC guy]

angryABCGirl is hot.

she is more sexy than the skinny Chi