job prospects

[loserbutt]

right now I'm considering these college majors

economics

political science

history

english

philosophy


right now the front runners are economics and poly sci, but I really do need to know the employment prospects for the above majors. thanks!

[Craig]

I think of your choices that "economics" majors would have the best prospects.

[iris]

philosophy = jack shit

history = teacher, historian, pre-law

english = publishing (book & magazine), journalism (print), advertising or marketing or publicity (some business classes required), pre-law, teacher

poli sci = pre-law, public policy advisor, government work, consultant, advertising or marketing or publicity (some business classes required), international business work, teacher

economics = i-banking (fixed income and/or markets), financial consultant, financial advisor, pre-law, economic policy advisor, consultant, banker, government work, asset management, trade equities, teacher


Right now, you'd probably make the most money with poli sci or econ, but the jobs from English majors are more fun. Take a couple classes in each and go with the one you like the most. It's a good indication of how you will like your future job. If you hate econ, don't try to do i-banking because you'll hate that too.

[loserbutt]

hmm, on poly sci, what are the odds of actually landing work as a public policy advisor, government work, or consultant? there are a lot of poly sci majors in college.

and for econ and poly sci, what kind of teachers? college or high school?

[angel nympho]

With a philosophy major, you can go into Law. A lot of law firms really like you to have a strong background in philosophy.

[loserbutt]

from the stats, 5% of philo majors go into law. but yea, I'm leaning heavily towards law.

[angel nympho]

^-- *Shrug* My friend's a philosophy major. And he got really mad when I asked him if it wou;d even be good for anything to major in it unless you wanna teach... and he told me that law firms really like it when you know alot about philosophy. i felt dumb.

[loserbutt]

hmm, are you in college angel? if so what major?

[angel nympho]

I'm a communications major. I'm thinking of going into journalism/photo journalism. But maybe I'll go into law. :)

The way I figure, law school will be my cop out. If I don't knwo for sure what to do after school, I'll just go to more school. hehehe... I think law school is a cop out for a lot of people though, so it's all good.

[loserbutt]

ack communications... what are the classes like?

[lethal]

I dunno. I've never heard that law firms like any particular undergrad major unless you're going into tax law...then they like accountants.

Mostly law firms, as far as I can tell, don't care much about what you did in undergrad or much about what you did previous to law school really. Its all about what law school you go to, your grades in school, law review, moot court, the people you know, the jobs you held in school, the judge you clerked for...

And it doesn't matter what you major in in college when you apply to law school...they take them all...

[iris]

I'm going to law school next fall. I majored in Anthropology and Marketing with a minor in psychology.

Philosophy actually isn't the greatest choice if you want to go into law. They look for well rounded individuals with an interesting major, something outside the typical applicant. In addition, when doing mock court, it's not great to argue the philosophical. You'll have to argue the facts.

What's actually going to matter the most for law school is your GPA and your LSAT score. Some schools won't even look at you if your GPA is under 3.5

teaching question = depends on what you want to teach. If you want to teach high school, then study secondary education. If you want to teach college, get your masters.

poli sci question = all jobs are scarce. Employers will go with the best applicant so there is no way of telling if you'll get government work or consulting, etc. Well-known firms such as Deloitte Touche (consulting) put a GPA requirement for interviews. Any of the Big 5 will look at your grades and course work so just do the best you can in college and come out with good grades and you should be alright.

[angel nympho]

Originally posted by loserbutt@Dec 1 2002, 10:27 PM
ack communications... what are the classes like?
Not too bad. Kinda boring. Just chillen in class looking at a buncha different kinds of crap the media puts out...

It also consists of a LOT of English classes for me. 'Cuz I'm honing my writing style.

[ChinaLama]

Originally posted by iris@Dec 2 2002, 02:04 AM


What's actually going to matter the most for law school is your GPA and your LSAT score. Some schools won't even look at you if your GPA is under 3.5

err...i hope that's not completely true. What if you had a really high LSAT? would they disregard a say 3.4 GPA if someone has a 170's LSAT?

[lethal]

Originally posted by ChinaLama@Dec 2 2002, 12:38 AM
Originally posted by iris@Dec 2 2002, 02:04 AM


What's actually going to matter the most for law school is your GPA and your LSAT score. Some schools won't even look at you if your GPA is under 3.5

err...i hope that's not completely true. What if you had a really high LSAT? would they disregard a say 3.4 GPA if someone has a 170's LSAT?
A high LSAT can make up for a slightly flawed GPA. It helped me overcome a very, very low GPA.

I'd make the assertion that law schools weigh LSAT more than GPA.

[iris]

I don't know. About 1/5 of my class applied to law school. One of my buddies had a 172 LSAT score but a 3.3 GPA. He got denied from BU. My other friend had a 164, but a 3.7 GPA and she got in. It's just how each individual place weighs it I guess.

[lethal]

With admissions, its sometimes a crapshoot. There are so many factors admissions people use in putting together a class. Plus, different schools weigh the numerical factors differently.

The cynical side of me would say something about race and gender considerations, but the more rational logical side would just say it could be anything, including essays, recommendations, work experience...lots of things.

Lama, good luck with the apps. Just put together the best apps you can and get them in as early as you can.

[iris]

Lama, you applying now? I applied early decision to a school but I'm still in the process of applying to others. I hate it. It sucks. School sucks.

[TyroneK(prettypretty)]

Originally posted by lethalweapon@Dec 2 2002, 05:45 AM
Originally posted by ChinaLama@Dec 2 2002, 12:38 AM
Originally posted by iris@Dec 2 2002, 02:04 AM


What's actually going to matter the most for law school is your GPA and your LSAT score. Some schools won't even look at you if your GPA is under 3.5

err...i hope that's not completely true. What if you had a really high LSAT? would they disregard a say 3.4 GPA if someone has a 170's LSAT?
A high LSAT can make up for a slightly flawed GPA. It helped me overcome a very, very low GPA.

I'd make the assertion that law schools weigh LSAT more than GPA.
Law school admission is definitely a numbers game. The essay matters some and individual background characteristics matter a lot too, but in the end, the major factors that will constitute 90% of the case for admitting you is your GPA and LSAT score. Most admissions officers feel that those are the best predictors of law school performance.

That being said, every school balances GPA and LSAT's differently and they weigh the value of different GPA's from different schools with individual formulas for each university or college. Previous job experience counts for a lot too. A good deal of the selection after they filter with the numbers involves what they feel would make a unique and successful class.

Getting a law job is more about experience, law school grades and what the firm/organization needs. Aside from that, the interviews also aim to find out whether you can hang with the rest of the firm and if you seem truthfully willing to put in 18 hour days in some NYC office and give up a lot of the activities that make up an individual life.

I'd hate to break it to your friend AngelNympho, but law firms really don't care for philosophy majors. When they do care about undergrad education beyond the fact that the applicant has graduated, they prefer someone who majored in the physical or engineering sciences. Given the way our economy works and our society is developing, technical knowledge is a lot harder to come by. You can always learn how to argue because those skills are so abstract. Learning enough to navigate around IP issues and put forth a valid case is entirely different. Econ's also good because you might be better with handling finances.

Anyways, I'd suggest not going to law school right out of graduation. The process is much easier when you have a couple of years of job experience or something else to put on the table besides you're increasingly worthless BA. You can also take the LSAT early and hold onto the score for 2-3 years, so there's no need to rush it.

To answer the original thread question, I'd go for econ if you're just looking at things from a money point of view.

[angel nympho]

^-- I didn't say my friend thought philosophy was a good way to get into law. My friend really likes philosophy, so he decided to major in it... and when i asked him what you can do with a philosophy major besides teach, he said law. he said it helps to know moral philosophy.

[angel nympho]

Either way, can't you try to go to law school no matter what your undergrad study was?

[iris]

Moral philosophy in law? What is this "morals" you speak of... haha :lol: Nah, can't rag on myself and the rest of the [future] legal advocates in here.

Yeah I took a year off, but I took the LSAT early and held my score. I also think it's important to experience what the world can offer you besides law. Work overseas or something for a different sort of outlook. Law school will always be there and they actually like people who've worked for a couple years more. It shows you're stable and you know law is what you want to do. Plus after a year out, you might not want to come back and you've just saved yourself about $100K in tuition. :P

[iris]

Yeah AN, you could major in music as long as you took the core classes, got good grades, and did decently well on the LSAT.

[TyroneK(prettypretty)]

Originally posted by angel nympho@Dec 2 2002, 06:20 AM
^-- I didn't say my friend thought philosophy was a good way to get into law. My friend really likes philosophy, so he decided to major in it... and when i asked him what you can do with a philosophy major besides teach, he said law. he said it helps to know moral philosophy.
It does help to know moral philosophy to some degree, but you don't really go over that in law school beyond a semester intro course.

Iris, are there really core law classes? From what I know, all you need is a BA/BS level degree in something from an accredited university.

[angel nympho]

Originally posted by iris@Dec 2 2002, 06:30 AM
Yeah AN, you could major in music as long as you took the core classes, got good grades, and did decently well on the LSAT.
Do you mean core as in GE?

[angel nympho]

Oh well. I'm glad I'm not planning on law. Like I said before, that's my cop out plan. Just in case it turns out that I really DON'T like what I end up doing after I graduate.

[iris]

Originally posted by VBKao@Dec 2 2002, 06:49 AM
It does help to know moral philosophy to some degree, but you don't really go over that in law school beyond a semester intro course.

Iris, are there really core law classes? From what I know, all you need is a BA/BS level degree in something from an accredited university.
there are no really core classes per se. just classes you need to graduate, but most pre-law advisors suggest you take a couple courses in writing, one in ethics, one in logical reasoning, and one in math. Debate and speech are extra :rolleyes: It helps with the LSAT and for future law classes and it'll look better when law admissions check ya out.

[ChinaLama]

Originally posted by iris@Dec 2 2002, 06:03 AM
Lama, you applying now? I applied early decision to a school but I'm still in the process of applying to others. I hate it. It sucks. School sucks.
nah i'm proly gonna be working till 2004. Not 100% committed to applying to law school yet, but definitely leaning that direction. I'd have to take the LSAT again, though, cuz w/ my 162 and my 3.4 GPA, i won't be able to make a school i'd want to go to. Sure I could probably get into Brooklyn now, but if I'm going to law school, it's most likely for an academic, and not a professional career. And I don't think I'll be making it to the LLM or JSD step with a degree from a city college.


Plus the application pool is huge this year cuz of the economy. once the economy picks up, the app pool may shrink again as a lot of ppl would rather work than go back to school.

[lethal]

You can major in anything you want and law schools will take you.

One thing philosophy will help you with is the games section of the LSAT. The games section is a lot like the puzzles you'd do in the logic class of a philosophy major.

[lethal]

Originally posted by ChinaLama@Dec 2 2002, 02:01 AM
Plus the application pool is huge this year cuz of the economy. once the economy picks up, the app pool may shrink again as a lot of ppl would rather work than go back to school.
Good idea. The admissions lady at my school said apps were up another 40% this year, above the 40% increase last year and the 20% increase the year before. These are early numbers though, but its still a hard time to go.

I've always had it run through my head. If I went to school straight out of college 3 years ago, I probably could've gotten into a better school, but I'd have no job right now. Or I could've gone to school when I did, worked some, saved up a little money, enjoyed my youth and gone to a bit lower ranked school, possibly costing me a little down the line with no guarantees of a job when I graduate.

Lots of things to consider.

[ellsworth81]

I think everyone's covered each major pretty well. Well, except for English. I had a friend who majored in English, and only got a job doing computer work because she's a comp geek as well. So proceed with caution there. And she said that it's pretty useless, with the exception of the extremely high GPAs that you can put on your resume.

The job market in general is shitty to the point it doesn't matter what your major is. Engineers, BBAs, liberal arts are all getting shot down alike. If you want to play it safe, do a dual major in something practical and something you kind of enjoy. Econ is mainly good for financial type careers as opposed to an English major (just at face value).

Either way, you shouldn't tailor your major around something that cannot be easily predicted. They keep saying the economy will get better, but no one really knows sure enough. And the last thing you want is to major in some bullshit you absolutely hate only to find you can't get a job in it.

[ChinaLama]

This is a list of the top 10 most marketable majors, published in spring of 2002:

http://www.naceweb.org/press/display.asp?y...r=2002&prid=158 (http://www.naceweb.org/press/display.asp?year=2002&prid=158)


However, for an undergraduate, the specific major isn't that important. I was an econ major-- and now i'm doing staff work for a political organization. Has absolutely nothing to do with my major. On the other hand, my friend's Duke alum interviewer was a history major pulling in 70 k or so at human resources.

For an undergrad, I think employers mainly look at your ABILITY to do good work, for which your specific major content itself is not a big deal (honestly, how much of economics will anyone doing slave work for an i-bank have to know?), but your performance WITHIN your major acts as a proxy for your "ability." (if you have high grades, you're likely to have the self-discipline, intelligence, and adaptability needed to do any line of work). That's also why the specific major doesn't count that much when applying to professional schools, and isn't the be-all and end-all to applying to specific graduate programs, either. But here I'll defer to ppl w/ more experience; i didn't really hunt for jobs w/ due diligence.

However, for a graduate student, I think the specific major matters more. If you're an Antho PhD, you probably won't even be allowed to work as a lawyer (i'm not sure what the rules are, but I assume just to take the Bar exam, you'll need a JD. otherwise, why would people spend over 100k over 3 years for law school when they can spend those 3 years just cramming for an exam, which will cost significantly less).

[luv]

I worked HR for a while and English majors were always the first to be considered for secretarial or clerical jobs -- but I'm pretty sure you're not looking in that direction. Don't know much about philosophy or poli sci.

When I went into college, the hot major was IT, we all know how that is going now. But I hedged and went for finance -- then failed to realize finance majors are very much expected to work in sales: cold calling and insurance. The most in demand major when I graduated turned out to be accounting and teaching -- when economy tanked. So who knows what the world will be like in a couple years. Go for econ if you really like graphs and bullshitting about graphs. THink that would probably be the best in good/bad economy.