Asian American men in Japan and Asia

[nabeyaki]

It is interesting being an Asian American male here in Japan. Having lived here for a while, I can say I've experienced many things. Good and bad. I would say that in the States, racial quality is something we all were taught to accept as a value. Even if racism exists, it CAN be subtle in the States. However here in Japan, the rules are different. As a Asian-American, it may be harder to find a job or initiate relationships. Since I'm stuck out here in Japan, I would like to hear about stories of successful Asian-American men who excelled in their employement as well as successul strategies finding the opposite sex. Cheers!

[eos]

mm....are you REALLY asian? because you mention it 3-4 times, and you know japan is IN asia right? it's not like it's own separate little kingdom. also, you say you're an "engrish sensei", which i'm taking to mean you teach english. however, in your post, i spot a few spelling and grammar mistakes. also, there are sentence fragments. don't the programs for teaching english test you to see if you really know the language before unleashing you on the natives? just wondering.

[Tao]

oh shit! busted!

[nabeyaki]

hey akane, thanks for the warm welcome mate. wanna come out here to japan? i'd say you woyld make a good teacher.

[eos]

oh one more thing.....asian-americans don't say "cheers" or "mate".

[Banana]

I do have to say that if you are indeed white and still can't get some random Japanese girl to be interested in you, you should commit suicide.

I'm being honest. Sorry. Seriously, you must have the social skills of a cave gnome for Japanese women to not fawn over you because you're some kind of novelty item over there.

Haven't you ever heard of the "Charisma Man" effect?

http://www.charismaman.com/

I've always said that white men have the advantage in the dating scene in this country (power holders) as well as other countries (novelty factor). If a white guy can't get a date in either location, it's best if you off yourself.

[yoMAMA]

I have a hmong american friend who taught english in southern Japan (kyushu) for 3 years (he was in the JET program), and he loved it, he partied alot ( i don't know if Japan is known for partying).

i asked him about how it was like being an asian american in Japan, and he said that most Japanese never knew he's a gaijin until he opened his mouth.

[mzhsacramento]

nabeyaki,

Could you give more detail? Describe a instance in which you struck out with the opposite sex as an Asian American in Japan. And then we might be of more help.

[CBC guy]

It is interesting being an Asian American male here in Japan. Having lived here for a while, I can say I've experienced many things. Good and bad. I would say that in the States, racial quality is something we all were taught to accept as a value. Even if racism exists, it CAN be subtle in the States. However here in Japan, the rules are different. As a Asian-American, it may be harder to find a job or initiate relationships. Since I'm stuck out here in Japan, I would like to hear about stories of successful Asian-American men who excelled in their employement as well as successul strategies finding the opposite sex. Cheers!

アメリカおよび中国語であるか。 それは幾分困難ようである。 これは正しくない翻訳ではないが、ものは何でも私が日本語を理解しない....

日本の性をとの有すると女の子が見つけることを試みているか。 なぜここにいるかそれはあるか。

小さい中国およびアメリカであるかどうか見るためにテストを取ろうとしている。

BTW I did that all on babelfish, its probably garbled but if you live in Japan you should understand that.

This might seem a little harsh, but I have to make sure you are actually Chinese-American as you claim. As Akane-san so kindly pointed out there are several warning flags that you are neither Chinese nor American:

If you are really Chinese-American:

你會認得那些中文字嗎? 你說話的時后不想一個美國人, "mate" 這個字不是美國英語的常用詞. 你跟本不是美國華人吧!

還有, 中國人也會在日本教英文....外人而己, 外人而已...

I don't need you to understand all of that question, just recognize a few words from that and I'll be readier to think you aren't white.

[eos]

that was fun! dammit...i wanted to poke more holes in his bag of lies.

[CBC guy]

that was fun! dammit...i wanted to poke more holes in his bag of lies.

小姐, 那你可以跟我一起看透那個鬼佬吧! 他想同日本美少女交往, 不太可能的吧! 真囉唆, 我們YW 的人都是十分討厭那種行態的人!

Hahaha well there you have it. We'll see how Nabeyaki-san here responds .

[eos]

^LOL....i could read like, 15 words of that. man, i gotta re-learn my chinese.

[nabeyaki]

まあ、最初から日本語で書きますわ。英語が下手ですから!!!CBCさんのお返事ありがとう。俺は白人じゃ ない。中国系アメリカ人。でも中国語をそんなに読めません。日本に長く住みましたから、Australia の”mate”とCanadaの”aboot”を言えるようになってきました。Akaneさんは俺のことは 白人と思ってるかも。俺はお前らと同じTeamじゃない？

mzhsacramento-san, thanks for your reply as well. no particular strike outs. i'm just more interested in hearing positive successful stories from asian-americans who lived in japan. i ask this because sociologically, it's kind of a limbo class here.

i didn't write here for someone to pick on my grammar or think i'm a white guy disguising myself. nor should i have to prove myself. when i found this site for the first time, i was relieved to find guys who feel the same way i do. it was disheartening to post a message and have guys trying to figure me out if i was chinese or not. or get flamed right away. 我是美國華人.我的中文是不太好.明白嗎？

so akane mate, i mean dude, if you live in another country and work with people 8 hours a day, 5 days a week, from other nationalites, you would definitely pick up on their language. i hope you can understand that, but if you can't i'm sorry. but i do ask politely for you to stop your inquistion.

if you would like to share something, please let me know. i would be more than happy to share whatever i can if you wish to come work or live in Japan. it'll be good to get more asian americans here.

peace guys and thanks

[eos]

nope sorry, i only work with americans.

we just abhor asiaphiles and you sounded like one. but if you're not, i apologize.

[nabeyaki]

thanks akane. not an asiaphile. abhor them myself.

[Tao]

group hug!

[kimpossible]

I'm pretty sure he is AA in Japan like he's stated.

[deez nuts]

rofl. this thread is awesome and deserves a sticky!

[AliBabaIncorporated]

Jesus H. Christ, a guy asks a perfectly reasonable question, and the response he gets reads: "To see is it whether or not Little China as well as America, probably will obtain a test." To which I respond: What the having sexual intercourse defecation are you smoking?

[SunWuKong]

alright people. don't bite the newbies. unless it's another one of those "i'm not Asian but i heart them" newbies. in that case, bite away.

[eos]

ali: what the flying fuck are you talking about? what the hell are YOU smoking?

[CBC guy]

まあ、最初から日本語で書きますわ。英語が下手ですから!!!CBCさんのお返事ありがとう。俺は白人じゃ ない。中国系アメリカ人。でも中国語をそんなに読めません。日本に長く住みましたから、Australia の”mate”とCanadaの”aboot”を言えるようになってきました。Akaneさんは俺のことは 白人と思ってるかも。俺はお前らと同じTeamじゃない？

mzhsacramento-san, thanks for your reply as well. no particular strike outs. i'm just more interested in hearing positive successful stories from asian-americans who lived in japan. i ask this because sociologically, it's kind of a limbo class here.

i didn't write here for someone to pick on my grammar or think i'm a white guy disguising myself. nor should i have to prove myself. when i found this site for the first time, i was relieved to find guys who feel the same way i do. it was disheartening to post a message and have guys trying to figure me out if i was chinese or not. or get flamed right away. 我是美國華人.我的中文是不太好.明白嗎？

so akane mate, i mean dude, if you live in another country and work with people 8 hours a day, 5 days a week, from other nationalites, you would definitely pick up on their language. i hope you can understand that, but if you can't i'm sorry. but i do ask politely for you to stop your inquistion.

if you would like to share something, please let me know. i would be more than happy to share whatever i can if you wish to come work or live in Japan. it'll be good to get more asian americans here.

peace guys and thanks


Fair enough. I honestly thought you were one of those asiaphiles but I guess I can accept you as the real deal. Peace brother.


對不起...是我錯...
你還能看懂那些字算還可以吧...

[pikachupacabra]

That's not terribly fair, I'm a ABC and I can't read most of that Chinese and I even took a few years of Chinese classes in college.


edit-whoops I can read a lot of it. nm. that's me having such faith in my chinese reading abilities

[CBC guy]

Hey Nabeyaki-san, Im sorry I did what I did but it is a fact that there have been too many asiaphiles that have gone on this site so we have to be on our guard. Welcome to the club brother. :smile: :cool:

Ok this topic is actually relevant to me, so I'll post my own experience as a Chinese-Canadian in China.

Part 1: life in general

Now that we've cleared the air I was an Asian American (ok technically Asian-Canadian but over there they mix us up sometimes) who worked in China teaching english (like you) for about 6 months. I don't know about Japan but China was ok for the most part, although they often made fun of my "english" accent when speaking mandarin and how loud I talked compared to them and how easily I spoke my mind to everyone. The Chinese were quite friendly but sometimes it was very clear that I wasn't one of "them" because of my western upbringing, and they often remarked on how slow and "artificially correct" (no slang whatsoever) my Mandarin was. One taxi driver even said I was driving him crazy with how slow I was talking and how I enunciated everything! Then at restaurants I would bring an English book to read and the restaurant staff would stare at me with a mix of curiosity and envy. Since everything was so cheap in China I would often invite my friends to dinner and pay the tab, which I rarely do here. (Yes, I'm a stingy tight-fisted bastard. :biggrin: ) That helps you gain a lot of face in Chinese culture, but maybe I overdid it because they figured there was no way they could repay me, but I gladly paid because I wanted to show my friendliness. Oh well.

Ok what else.... public bathrooms are the shit, (getting better though) public transport isn't bad (hey its a communist state) and sometimes they blatantly tried to rip me off once they knew I wasn't a Mainland Chinese.

Part 2: relationships

I was very leery of getting into serious relationships with the Chinese girls because 1) I was only there short-term, didn't want to get my/their hopes up. and 2) Quite a few of them were freaking golddiggers who seemed like the type who would ride you to North America (or "the west") and then dump you like a dumpster baby. Besides, quite a few of the girls I knew in China were already in serious relationships, or conversely their parents didn't allow them to date. (Which is ridiculous b/c she was 24, smart, and pretty, but hey I guess that's the way China is sometimes.)

part 3: career and work

As for my career there.... I basically taught one class once a week and acted as a private tutor off-campus, mostly to University students. The classes took a while for me to get up and running as I was fresh off my TEFL certificate but eventually they were fairly easy to run, as Chinese students on average are more obedient. At first they were a bit dissapointed because I wasn't "American" like they thought I would be, but class is class and after I "performed" my uber Cantonese :biggrin: on them they were all mine. :cool: I didn't earn a lot (Chinese salaries aren't that great) but living costs were so ridiculously cheap (by our standards) that I was able to live a comfortable (ie, western) lifestyle and have money left over. I even did a gig on the local radio show, they were intrigued by my "Canadianess" and stuff so they hired me to go on for a few shows, and I acted as a judge at some event. (i just sat there as little kids screamed "row, row, row your boat" into the mike for 3 hours... :tongue: ) It isn't a very serious career, I know, but hey I'm still young and it was a great experience.

Hope that helps some, Nabeyaki-san. (bows) Wow that was long.

[MD2020]

I haven't lived in japan but I did visit there for about a month, not claiming to be an expert at all. I am a non-Japanese/non-Japanese speaking Asian. From my short time there, I had no trouble getting girls to go out to dinner/coffee with me and show me around the city/area, as long as they spoke a little english. I don't think of them as dates, but I got attention when I initiated and they were pretty curious about my background. Probably wouldn't be hard to take it to the next level, but I have no idea about the long term. I think it would be wise to avoid the "foreign" bar areas (Roppongi, etc...) , as those girls are notorious for seeking out foreigners (non-asian ones).

As for the rest of Asia, particularly southeast asia, any asian-american guys that are the least bit presentable and are not total bums pretty much have to beat off women with a stick. Granted, a lot of that attention is probably because of money and green card status (hello unsolicited marriage offers of young daughters and sisters).

Lest we forget, Peter Chung seemed to have a grand ol' time in Korea:
http://www.snopes.com/risque/tattled/chung.htm

[Paradox]

As for the rest of Asia, particularly southeast asia, any asian-american guys that are the least bit presentable and are not total bums pretty much have to beat off women with a stick. Granted, a lot of that attention is probably because of money and green card status (hello unsolicited marriage offers of young daughters and sisters).
]
In Thailand the girls that speak good English are best avoided like the plague. They are usually hookers, girls with dozens of foreign boyfriends, or party girl types. The decent sane girls who you want to date generally speak Thai most of the time. This requires conforming to the culture and language a bit before you can ever advance. If you don't then it's more difficult to date normally but not insurmountable. This means that you really need to brush up on the local way of doing things. Thai-American boys tend to do extremely well with the girls though.

Hong Kong, Singapore, China, and Taiwan is nice for Chinese-American guys if you speak a bit of mandarin or cantonese (in HK).

[CBC guy]

Hong Kong, Singapore, China, and Taiwan is nice for Chinese-American guys if you speak a bit of mandarin or cantonese (in HK).

I have experience with that one, first they think you're funny and cute because going by facial features they think you're local but *you're not*. They might also think you have a "cute" accent and vocabulary in Chinese. Then as you know them better they get bewildered by your "American" way of speech or doing things, (case in point: My cousin in HK was shocked when I ordered wonton noodles AND "zha leung" ("you zha gui" wrapped in rice noodles.... SOOO GOOD) for myself in the same restaurant. The smaller portions in HK just couldn't satisfy my "Canadian" appetite. :biggrin: ) and then there is often disillusionment as both sides have to learn about each other's SPECIFIC rather than GENERAL backgrounds going only by physical features.

I never stayed in HK/PRC (never been to taiwan yet) long enough to get a true "girlfriend" but I have hung out with girls from both those places, and they expect so much more of you culturally than they expect from the "real" (read: white) Americans that if cultural misunderstandings occur they can be fatal to any true relationship. It is easy to have fun though if you know the language.

[Paradox]

I have experience with that one, first they think you're funny and cute because going by facial features they think you're local but *you're not*. They might also think you have a "cute" accent and vocabulary in Chinese. Then as you know them better they get bewildered by your "American" way of speech or doing things, (case in point: My cousin in HK was shocked when I ordered wonton noodles AND "zha leung" ("you zha gui" wrapped in rice noodles.... SOOO GOOD) for myself in the same restaurant.

The smaller portions in HK just couldn't satisfy my "Canadian" appetite. :biggrin: ) and then there is often disillusionment as both sides have to learn about each other's SPECIFIC rather than GENERAL backgrounds going only by physical features.

I never stayed in HK/PRC (never been to taiwan yet) long enough to get a true "girlfriend" but I have hung out with girls from both those places, and they expect so much more of you culturally than they expect from the "real" (read: white) Americans that if cultural misunderstandings occur they can be fatal to any true relationship. It is easy to have fun though if you know the language.
That kind of mirrors my experiences as well. What's great about the mandarin speaking regions of Asia is that they can at least comprehend the phenomenon of overseas born or westernized asians. In Thailand it's a big fuckin' mystery to them why someone with an asian face can speak english so well. Seriously, your average Thai person just doesn't get it at all..many aren't well travelled enough to understand the outside world. I get tired of explaining to people here how i'm not from Singapore or Hong Kong. Then when I say i'm from the U.S. I get the usual "but u look asian :confused:" responses. One douche i.d. checker at a club even claimed my passport was fake one time. That one was real :rolleyes: until they saw the look in my face which did not reflect bemusement at their awesome intellectual deduction.

I think the gravity of cultural misunderstandings are overstated though. My girlfriend is dyed in the wool Thai I make social/cultural mistakes all the time and she often corrects me or explains it to me when she's not laughing about it. :redface: It just all depends on what kind of person you find. If you go out with your typical uptight face conscious asian social climbing type of gal then she may be very intolerant of your cultural mistakes. Then again that type of girl usually falls into my "non longterm" category.

The rules I follow

1) Don't date foreigner chasers or girls that hang out in expat spots.

2) Be wary of girls that speak english a little too well.

3) Must have a steady job or go to school.

4) Must not be asian social climber or demanding, clingy, or narrow minded.

[CBC guy]

. One douche i.d. checker at a club even claimed my passport was fake one time. That one was real :rolleyes: until they saw the look in my face which did not reflect bemusement at their awesome intellectual deduction.

I think the gravity of cultural misunderstandings are overstated though. My girlfriend is dyed in the wool Thai I make social/cultural mistakes all the time and she often corrects me or explains it to me when she's not laughing about it. :redface: It just all depends on what kind of person you find. If you go out with your typical uptight face conscious asian social climbing type of gal then she may be very intolerant of your cultural mistakes. Then again that type of girl usually falls into my "non longterm" category.

The I.D. part was freaking hilarious I LOL'ed at that one haha. :redface:

I haven't really had a longterm girlfriend in Asia yet, so Im just going by initial responses I got from them.

On the other hand, my students in China all thought I was the shit :wink: . But that's because I played drums and I also knew Cantonese as well as English and Mandarin. I think the Cantonese bit impressed the PRC girls the most. :biggrin: :cool:

[AngryABCGirl]

I have experience with that one, first they think you're funny and cute because going by facial features they think you're local but *you're not*. They might also think you have a "cute" accent and vocabulary in Chinese. Then as you know them better they get bewildered by your "American" way of speech or doing things, (case in point: My cousin in HK was shocked when I ordered wonton noodles AND "zha leung" ("you zha gui" wrapped in rice noodles.... SOOO GOOD) for myself in the same restaurant. The smaller portions in HK just couldn't satisfy my "Canadian" appetite. :biggrin: ) and then there is often disillusionment as both sides have to learn about each other's SPECIFIC rather than GENERAL backgrounds going only by physical features.

I never stayed in HK/PRC (never been to taiwan yet) long enough to get a true "girlfriend" but I have hung out with girls from both those places, and they expect so much more of you culturally than they expect from the "real" (read: white) Americans that if cultural misunderstandings occur they can be fatal to any true relationship. It is easy to have fun though if you know the language.

I alarm people with my eating habits in Asia. I keep ordering food and people ask me if I'm worried about weight. Nah, I'm just worried about how I should enjoy this food as much as possible.

Anyway I'm not an Asian American man but an Asian American women living in Taiwan. A lot of my girlfriends here are really curious about Overseas Chinese guys- they are hotter on the market than white men- both ABCs and 1.5 gen-ers. You'll have a lot of fun if you know the language and maybe it'll be even be cute if you don't know a little bit.

They joke around about me introducing me to other overseas guys because apparently I have access to wagons of them- but I know some of them are only half-joking. The whole being different but familiar really appeals to the girls here. Some also think that Asian American men are less chauvanistic than the local guys and more open (this is really hit or miss though honestly).

I've noticed depending on language level usually people in Asia in general will assess how in the culture you are and not really regard you as an American but someone an insider and outsider. That can be really good, or really bad when cultural misunderstandings come upon. It's not just a difference between east and west cultures as humongous whole, but a difference between dating practices and expectations in general.

[popculturepooka]

Hmmm, I would say in Japan (having been there for awhile myself, keep in mind I'mma blasian guy), that it is harder to get a job/date. As opposed to just a regular non-asian gaijin.
Hell, the Japanese barely treat their "own" right!! Ever heard of the Zainichi Koreans, and Ainu (technically not asian I guess) they get shafted big time. Or how they treat overseas Japanese who come back?

See non-asian gaijin are EXPECTED to not be able to speak japanese/no the customs/whatever, so they get a bit of leeway.
While an East Asian looking person is automatically assumed to be Japanese, and when you can't speak japanese well, or when you don't know the customs that's a huge turnoff...
Or so my friends tell me.

[CBC guy]

While an East Asian looking person is automatically assumed to be Japanese, and when you can't speak japanese well, or when you don't know the customs that's a huge turnoff...
Or so my friends tell me.

Gosh that was really annoying a few months ago when on the way home from China I had a 4 hour layover at Narita Airport, Japan. (the main airport for Tokyo) I was just browsing around when people kept thinking I was Japanese! I'm NOT dammit! (note: I had bought a Japanese-English phrasebook and memorized some key phrases, but that's it.)

Couple: Summimasen,..... (a blur of Japanese I had no hope of comprehending)

Me: Uh... nani desu ka? (what is it?)

Couple: (blur again) wa doko desu ka? (..is where?)

Me: Wakarimasen! Watashi iie Nihonjin desu. Eigo ga dekimasu ka? (I don't understand! I am not Japanese. Do you understand English?)

Couple: (bewildered) Solly, lo engelishu! (Sorry, no english) O-Tearai wa doko desu ka? (spoken very slowly: asked for where the bathrooms were)

Me: O-tearai? oh, o-tearai wa doko desu. (I point them towards the bathrooms)

Couple: Domo arigato! (thank you very much! They bowed profusely)

Me: uh... kekko desu. (its ok)

I walked to another store.

Store clerk: (she was cute... about my age) Irrashaimase! (welcome!)

Me: uh... konnichiwa.

clerk: (blur in Japanese)

Me: oh, sorry, I don't speak Japanese. (I was tired of racking my brain for the correct Japanese phrases)

clerk: (again, blur in Japanese, pointed here and there, trying to "help" me purchase something I didn't need)

Me: no, its ok...

clerk: (giggling) nani desu ka? Nihonjin desu? (What is it? Are you Japanese?)

Me: Iie! Watashi iie Nihonjin desu! Eigo ga dekimasu ka? (No! I'm not Japanese! Do you speak English?)

clerk: Gomen nasai! Eigo ga wakarimasen. (Sorry! I don't understand English)

Me:..... uh.... I'll go now.

I left while she was giggling while covering her mouth with her hand. She was pretty kawaii. Hot Damn. :wink:

......:mad: :frown: :redface:


But then again the shoe also goes on the other foot: I saw these Korean Christians handing out free stuff in Hong Kong and I just spoke to them in Cantonese until they asked me if I knew English ROFLMAO! :biggrin:

[yoMAMA]

Gosh that was really annoying a few months ago when on the way home from China I had a 4 hour layover at Narita Airport, Japan. (the main airport for Tokyo) I was just browsing around when people kept thinking I was Japanese! I'm NOT dammit! (note: I had bought a Japanese-English phrasebook and memorized some key phrases, but that's it.)

Couple: Summimasen,..... (a blur of Japanese I had no hope of comprehending)

Me: Uh... nani desu ka? (what is it?)

Couple: (blur again) wa doko desu ka? (..is where?)

Me: Wakarimasen! Watashi iie Nihonjin desu. Eigo ga dekimasu ka? (I don't understand! I am not Japanese. Do you understand English?)

Couple: (bewildered) Solly, lo engelishu! (Sorry, no english) O-Tearai wa doko desu ka? (spoken very slowly: asked for where the bathrooms were)

Me: O-tearai? oh, o-tearai wa doko desu. (I point them towards the bathrooms)

Couple: Domo arigato! (thank you very much! They bowed profusely)

Me: uh... kekko desu. (its ok)

I walked to another store.

Store clerk: (she was cute... about my age) Irrashaimase! (welcome!)

Me: uh... konnichiwa.

clerk: (blur in Japanese)

Me: oh, sorry, I don't speak Japanese. (I was tired of racking my brain for the correct Japanese phrases)

clerk: (again, blur in Japanese, pointed here and there, trying to "help" me purchase something I didn't need)

Me: no, its ok...

clerk: (giggling) nani desu ka? Nihonjin desu? (What is it? Are you Japanese?)

Me: Iie! Watashi iie Nihonjin desu! Eigo ga dekimasu ka? (No! I'm not Japanese! Do you speak English?)

clerk: Gomen nasai! Eigo ga wakarimasen. (Sorry! I don't understand English)

Me:..... uh.... I'll go now.

I left while she was giggling while covering her mouth with her hand. She was pretty kawaii. Hot Damn. :wink:

......:mad: :frown: :redface:


But then again the shoe also goes on the other foot: I saw these Korean Christians handing out free stuff in Hong Kong and I just spoke to them in Cantonese until they asked me if I knew English ROFLMAO! :biggrin:

LOL!

great story.

I can see you are a fun guy.

[popculturepooka]

Agreed, that story was awesome.
And that expounds on my point exactly,
East-Asian = Japanese, until proven otherwise.
Non East-Asian = Never-can-be-Japanese, no matter if you know Japanese and Japanese customs better than other Japan-born Japanese.

I can't count the number of times I've hosted my Asian American friends in Japan and we've went out to a resturaunt and the waitress will skip right over me (the only person with any real Japanese ability) and start talking to my Korean, Chinese, and Vietnamese friends in Japanese. And they INSIST on asking them first and only them, even when I'm the one ordering everything.

I really don't blame them, most non-asian people in Japan can't speak Japanese well. But...it's annoying all the same.

Just to let you know, it'd be "Watashi wa nihonjin dewa arimasen."
Not trying to come off as an anal prick...just trying to clue you in just in case if you ever hit Japan again.

[CBC guy]

Agreed, that story was awesome.
And that expounds on my point exactly,
East-Asian = Japanese, until proven otherwise.
Non East-Asian = Never-can-be-Japanese, no matter if you know Japanese and Japanese customs better than other Japan-born Japanese.

I can't count the number of times I've hosted my Asian American friends in Japan and we've went out to a resturaunt and the waitress will skip right over me (the only person with any real Japanese ability) and start talking to my Korean, Chinese, and Vietnamese friends in Japanese. And they INSIST on asking them first and only them, even when I'm the one ordering everything.

I really don't blame them, most non-asian people in Japan can't speak Japanese well. But...it's annoying all the same.

Just to let you know, it'd be "Watashi wa nihonjin dewa arimasen."
Not trying to come off as an anal prick...just trying to clue you in just in case if you ever hit Japan again.


ROFL Thanks for the correction man. I was using my English grammar to make up wicked Japanese sentences on the fly. :wink: I figured "watashi iie nihonjin desu" was obviously incorrect, but hey I got my message accross didn't I? :biggrin: (eventually... geez)

Actually similar stories happen in China as well, where again the perception is often East Asian=Chinese. Then when the Korean/Japanese/Vietnamese/American-born person doesn't have a clue how to answer in Chinese, they also get funny looks.

Then again, it seems a lot easier for outsiders to settle down in China than in Japan. The Korean/Japanese exchange students at the University I stayed at in China (Sichuan University, Chengdu) picked up Mandarin and within a month or so were at least partially adapted to the Chinese culture. (Obviously these are younger folk where learning a new language is still possible.) It felt funny speaking to Koreans and Japanese people in Chinese, and they would respond in fluent, albeit accented Chinese. (they didn't know english, so our only common language was, well, Chinese!) Heck their Chinese characters looked way better than my childish scribbles. (Must be the Hanja/Kanji training they recieved back home before coming to China)

In Hong Kong, its a fair bit more cosmopolitan, so they are more used to non-Chinese East Asians in Hong Kong. However, obviously in a city that remains 98% Chinese, at first glance it is again: East Asian look=Chinese. EVERYONE speaks to you in Cantonese, or at most Mandarin. If you're East Asian and you know neither of those languages, then its game over. :biggrin: But then many Hong Kong people understand a fair bit of English, so you're not totally out of luck.

At a Hong Kong shoe outlet on Granville Road, Kowloon, I saw a young Korean tourist check out some shoes when a hip-looking young clerk came up and asked if he needed help in Cantonese. The tourist then said: (with an accent) "sorry, I don't know Chinese. You speak English?" The clerk's mind had to think for a bit, and then he answered in Mandarin: "ni shi tai wan ren ma?" ("are you Taiwanese?" He assumed it wasn't a Mainlander due to the tourist's hip clothing) Of course now the tourist panics and says: "sorry, I don't understand Chinese. I come from Korea." "Oh, oh, I see. Sorry. Do you need any help?" (Friendly banter ensues as Korean-accented english alternates with canto-accented english)

I was very facsinated by that encounter, and I found myself thinking about that episode for a long time. I think the Korean tourist had a good time.

[pikachupacabra]

I can't count the number of times I've hosted my Asian American friends in Japan and we've went out to a resturaunt and the waitress will skip right over me (the only person with any real Japanese ability) and start talking to my Korean, Chinese, and Vietnamese friends in Japanese. And they INSIST on asking them first and only them, even when I'm the one ordering everything.


This is the exact reverse of what a lot of my asian-american friends go through in Japan. Most japanese assume they can't speak english and will ask all the white/black etc looking people for english help when oftentimes the asian-americans can speak much better english lol. A friend of mine was hanging out with a very international crowd in Japan, 1 swedish guy, 2 guys actually FROM africa (nigerian I think?) and one russian, and a group of japanese high schoolers come up and ask if they can practice english with them and a big 'ol english clusterfuck ensues. No one asks my friend for english help even though he was the only actual native speaker.

[Paradox]

This is the exact reverse of what a lot of my asian-american friends go through in Japan. Most japanese assume they can't speak english and will ask all the white/black etc looking people for english help when oftentimes the asian-americans can speak much better english lol. A friend of mine was hanging out with a very international crowd in Japan, 1 swedish guy, 2 guys actually FROM africa (nigerian I think?) and one russian, and a group of japanese high schoolers come up and ask if they can practice english with them and a big 'ol english clusterfuck ensues. No one asks my friend for english help even though he was the only actual native speaker.
This is typical throughout asia except in maybe Singapore and the Phillipines where pretty much everyone has a decent level of english. People in Thailand do this all the time. When I hang out with my european friend (who speaks in heavily accented english) they come up asking him for help with words. It's not even his native language :rolleyes: and he learned English as an adult. Despite the increased modernization it's moments like this I realize just how insular in thought Asia still is at times. It also reminds me of the news items about Koreans getting tongue surgery so they could pronounce R's better..because ya' know asians are incapable of natural proper english pronunciation. :confused: :rolleyes:

For advanced countries like Japan, Taiwan, and Korea there is less excuse for this type of thing. They should be educated well enough to realize the differences in ethnicity, culture, and language by now.

[SunWuKong]

People in Thailand do this all the time.

quite a number of people in Thailand actually approached me with Mandarin. there are a lot of Chinese tourists there these days and i guess if i don't look Thai to them, i'm probably a Chinese tourist. lucky for everybody, they were right. :tongue: on a few occasions i met people whose English was difficult to understand so i tried Chinese and we were able to communicate.

[CBC guy]

quite a number of people in Thailand actually approached me with Mandarin. there are a lot of Chinese tourists there these days and i guess if i don't look Thai to them, i'm probably a Chinese tourist. lucky for everybody, they were right. :tongue: on a few occasions i met people whose English was difficult to understand so i tried Chinese and we were able to communicate.

Wow didn't know that it was possible to speak Chinese overseas in a non-Chinese area and get understood. :tongue: I should try that if I go to Thailand. :wink:

[popculturepooka]

pika - Dude, I lol everytime I see your name.
And lol, at "english clusterfuck".

cbc - You're welcome. Nice hearing your stories.

Well yeah, I kinda forgot to mention the other side of the story, exactly as many people have described it.
Asian people = cannot speak English.
I know in Japan (not sure about other Asian countries) many parents and teachers refuse to have a foreign Asian person teaching them English under the notion that they want a white/black person teaching them, because ya know...those are the only native speakers of English.
My friends get frustrated about the that too, I'll purposely try to ignore, "eigo bandits" (or basically young gaijin-seeking japanese girls that ask for English help, hoping it will lead to other things, or they just use you as a walking-talking dictionary), and let my Asian-American friends deal with them. So far it hasn't worked. :mad: :frown:

Tongue surgery btw? How does that work?

That last part is so true, Tokyo is one of the most globalized cities in the world, they really have little to no excuse for that type of ignorance.

[mr. x]

^---well Japanese like foreigners cept the ones who look like them, simple as that

[Paradox]

Asian people = cannot speak English.
I know in Japan (not sure about other Asian countries) many parents and teachers refuse to have a foreign Asian person teaching them English under the notion that they want a white/black person teaching them, because ya know...those are the only native speakers of English.

EFL teaching is one "career" where discrimination is just a fact of the industry. Many places will only hire white people (in some cases not even african-americans) to teach english it's like that in most of Asia. It's all marketing and face for these schools. It's not really racism just pure narrowminded ignorance in Asian countries when it comes to culture and language. Parents have no clue because they don't know english themselves so they see a school that has white people and they think it's a safe bet. Of course in quite a few cases they are being taught by non native english speaking europeans. This happens quite a bit in Thailand and noone has a clue. Some of these guys speak laughably bad english too. I don't know how the students can understand anything they say. I don't think they do..they are just there to be entertained by the white clown for a very pricey hourly rate.

I heard this has actually hurt Japan quite a bit in the financial sector. Recently, there was an article in I believe the Wall street Journal talking about how foreign banking and investment was flocking towards Singapore and HK in ever increasing numbers because of the inadequacy of English in Japan and the mind numbing beauracracy.

The irony is the current english teaching scheme probably harms the development in English education in many Asian countries. Programs like Jet have been going on forever in Japan but the average level of english in the developed asian nations still sucks badly. It's the quality and method of the education that's wrong and it's very hard for them to overhaul it because so many english language center owners are making tons of money scamming parents with inferior programs that use marketing (ie. hire any white person off the street) over actual working educational instruction.

The only places that have gotten it right are Malaysia, Phillipines, Singapore, and Hong Kong. However, they have a history of colonialism but they are pretty far removed from the past and have kept up english as a second language pretty well. The reason why is because native Filipino, Malay, Singaporean, and HK teachers are educated bilingually early on. In Japan, Korea, and Taiwan English is treated more like a hobby than a second language. I heard it's starting to change a bit in Korea where bilingual instruction is being stressed in some primary schools and they actively seek gyopos (overseas born koreans) to teach.

My friends get frustrated about the that too, I'll purposely try to ignore, "eigo bandits" (or basically young gaijin-seeking japanese girls that ask for English help, hoping it will lead to other things, or they just use you as a walking-talking dictionary), and let my Asian-American friends deal with them. So far it hasn't worked. :mad: :frown:

That doesn't sound like a bad thing to hook up with japanese chicks.

Tongue surgery btw? How does that work?

It's some retarded thing. I don't remember what it actually does but i'm sure some Korean cosmetic surgeons are making fucktons of money banking off of the insecurities and ignorance of the population.

[AngryABCGirl]

EFL teaching is one "career" where discrimination is just a fact of the industry. Many places will only hire white people (in some cases not even african-americans) to teach english it's like that in most of Asia. It's all marketing and face for these schools. It's not really racism just pure narrowminded ignorance in Asian countries when it comes to culture and language. Parents have no clue because they don't know english themselves so they see a school that has white people and they think it's a safe bet. Of course in quite a few cases they are being taught by non native english speaking europeans. This happens quite a bit in Thailand and noone has a clue. Some of these guys speak laughably bad english too. I don't know how the students can understand anything they say. I don't think they do..they are just there to be entertained by the white clown for a very pricey hourly rate.

The irony is the current english teaching scheme probably harms the development in English education in many Asian countries. Programs like Jet have been going on forever in Japan but the average level of english in the developed asian nations still sucks badly. It's the quality and method of the education that's wrong and it's very hard for them to overhaul it because so many english language center owners are making tons of money scamming parents with inferior programs that use marketing (ie. hire any white person off the street) over actual working educational instruction.



In Taiwan, most of the so-called "English Schools" other than a few reputable ones pretty much hire any White person that walks in the door, even people from Russia or European countries that don't speak English. Most of these are for rich kids whose parents don't know any better. A lot of these schools even know themselves that there are many Asian Americans out running about in Taiwan that speak fluent English- just based on the fact they can't speak Chinese should sum it up, but a lot of people flat out don't believe Asians can speak English without an accent. It's pretty sad and ignorant. I know a lot of people here who were looking for these jobs but couldn't get them and lost it some South African, hardly American English. A lot of these schools don't even train their instructors and often cheat these clowns on their pay. I guess it serves everyone right except the people running the businesses.

On another note, totally agree on Singapore, HK, Malaysia, and the Phillippines having excellent English- it kinda proves though language education has to be started at a young and holistic level.

[Paradox]

In Taiwan, most of the so-called "English Schools" other than a few reputable ones pretty much hire any White person that walks in the door, even people from Russia or European countries that don't speak English. Most of these are for rich kids whose parents don't know any better. A lot of these schools even know themselves that there are many Asian Americans out running about in Taiwan that speak fluent English- just based on the fact they can't speak Chinese should sum it up, but a lot of people flat out don't believe Asians can speak English without an accent. It's pretty sad and ignorant. I know a lot of people here who were looking for these jobs but couldn't get them and lost it some South African, hardly American English. A lot of these schools don't even train their instructors and often cheat these clowns on their pay. I guess it serves everyone right except the people running the businesses.

Yes, i've come to the conclusion that the EFL industry is the biggest scam in Asia. It's also stocked knee deep with rejects from the western world who are "escaping" to Asia. Unfortunately, the people who genuinely want to teach end up getting sidelined in the job because of all the b.s. that goes on in the work environment and hiring. Although, it sucks to be on the teacher side of things I do think that owning a language center is pretty profitable.

On another note, totally agree on Singapore, HK, Malaysia, and the Phillippines having excellent English- it kinda proves though language education has to be started at a young and holistic level.
If the developed asian nations bothered looking at Europe as an example of successful bilingual education programs then these countries would be speaking fluent english in less than 1 generation. Look at Scadinavian countries as an example..their native language is as different as an asian language yet most of the ones i've met speak fluent english. I talked with a Swede about this before and he said that nearly all the schools in Sweden teach bilingually from an early age. You're right..the only way for english instruction to work is to learn at an early age and the education must be consistent and truly bilingual.

[SunWuKong]

The only places that have gotten it right are Malaysia, Phillipines, Singapore, and Hong Kong. However, they have a history of colonialism but they are pretty far removed from the past and have kept up english as a second language pretty well. The reason why is because native Filipino, Malay, Singaporean, and HK teachers are educated bilingually early on. In Japan, Korea, and Taiwan English is treated more like a hobby than a second language. I heard it's starting to change a bit in Korea where bilingual instruction is being stressed in some primary schools and they actively seek gyopos (overseas born koreans) to teach.

i don't know how it is in any other places but education of English in HK sucks outside of international schools, and supposedly international schools breed a bunch of stuck up kids. it's basically bad English speakers teaching kids bad English. the success rate in the end depends on how seriously a kid takes his education, which is basically the same across all school subjects like math, science, history, etc. and the only bilingual education is found in international schools. to the best of my knowledge, English is taught as a subject, not used as a medium for teaching.

Singapore, on the other hand, does use English as a medium for teaching, which is why they have much better English speakers. but on the other hand, a lot of Singaporeans are lamenting a loss of skill in their native tongues because of that.

[SunWuKong]

In Taiwan, most of the so-called "English Schools" other than a few reputable ones pretty much hire any White person that walks in the door, even people from Russia or European countries that don't speak English. Most of these are for rich kids whose parents don't know any better. A lot of these schools even know themselves that there are many Asian Americans out running about in Taiwan that speak fluent English- just based on the fact they can't speak Chinese should sum it up, but a lot of people flat out don't believe Asians can speak English without an accent. It's pretty sad and ignorant. I know a lot of people here who were looking for these jobs but couldn't get them and lost it some South African, hardly American English. A lot of these schools don't even train their instructors and often cheat these clowns on their pay. I guess it serves everyone right except the people running the businesses.

i think it's a little better in HK, as far as what parents look for in an English teacher. there're enough Overseas Chinese people, international school kids, and "sent-away-to-the-West" rich kids around that people can see Chinese people as fluent English speakers. but i think HK parents generally like British English teachers more than American English teachers. i did know a British Chinese PhD student that was tutoring English who was making more than someone would make at your basic bank clerk type of job in HK. and i also knew an international school kid that was doing well teaching ESL teachers.

someone correct me if i'm wrong on this, but i think outside of private tutoring, a lot of the reputable English teaching businesses or programs in HK require at least a college education and maybe even some background in teaching, so that kind of eliminates those Westerners that left home to try to "find themselves" by teaching English in another country. actually, maybe it was just the people that i hung out with, but i don't think i ever met any white English teachers in HK, only Chinese ones who were fluent in English.

[kimpossible]

Depends on the school. I get a lot of offers through people I know but for the real money for the real schools you do have to have some impressive credentials. I could walk off the street and teach at a not so great college if I know someone who knows someone but if I wanted a job at like TAS (elite) I would need like a masters in the correct field of education.

BeTheReds would know better than myself regarding Japan but through personal experience I've known quite a few Asian Americans that have taught English there and I'm going to lump Eugene in there with them as Asian. For ads and shit they almost always use foreigners.

Just my opinion but I think the bar for English is higher in HK because of the British influence. That would weed out a lot of chumps.

[sageb1]

That kind of mirrors my experiences as well. What's great about the mandarin speaking regions of Asia is that they can at least comprehend the phenomenon of overseas born or westernized asians. In Thailand it's a big fuckin' mystery to them why someone with an asian face can speak english so well. Seriously, your average Thai person just doesn't get it at all..many aren't well travelled enough to understand the outside world. I get tired of explaining to people here how i'm not from Singapore or Hong Kong. Then when I say i'm from the U.S. I get the usual "but u look asian :confused:" responses. One douche i.d. checker at a club even claimed my passport was fake one time. That one was real :rolleyes: until they saw the look in my face which did not reflect bemusement at their awesome intellectual deduction.

I think the gravity of cultural misunderstandings are overstated though. My girlfriend is dyed in the wool Thai I make social/cultural mistakes all the time and she often corrects me or explains it to me when she's not laughing about it. :redface: It just all depends on what kind of person you find. If you go out with your typical uptight face conscious asian social climbing type of gal then she may be very intolerant of your cultural mistakes. Then again that type of girl usually falls into my "non longterm" category.

The rules I follow

1) Don't date foreigner chasers or girls that hang out in expat spots.

2) Be wary of girls that speak english a little too well.

3) Must have a steady job or go to school.

4) Must not be asian social climber or demanding, clingy, or narrow minded.


I know a girl on youtube that scares me. She posts from a youtube account where the personal name is Greg, and sometimes her voice gets deep like a man's. She's the Chinese woman who smokes a lot of salvia, and acts goofy on youtube.

She doesn't seem to have #1, #3, or #4 down pat, but is a recreation drug user.

She has to be an AA because even Japanese girls from the CIA school for preppy Japanese to blend in North Korea aka School of America in Tokyo have an accent.

The best English speaking Japanese would have a British accent.

[sageb1]

On this side of the pond, once I was riding the bus in Vancouver, and this Chinese lady from Shanghai had a British accent and was talking Vancouver dialect.

That was scary, because "I could see promiscuity in her eyes."

[CBC guy]

On this side of the pond, once I was riding the bus in Vancouver, and this Chinese lady from Shanghai had a British accent and was talking Vancouver dialect.

That was scary, because "I could see promiscuity in her eyes."

"Vancouver dialect?" :cool: I'm from Vancouver and I've never heard that before.

The best English speakers in Asia tend to have a wee bit of a British accent. Didn't like 60% of Hong Kong's English teachers (non-International Schools) fail an English examination themselves? That is pretty problematic for HK.

I considered going on the JET program to Japan but the bureaucracy was mind-boggling (I thought China was bad... wow) and overall I just didn't feel it was worth all the holes you had to jump through. Yet in the end I heard English in Japan still sucks for the most part? And yet they are the most "westernized" country in Asia... hmmm....

(Technically, I do not believe Japan is the most westernized place in Asia. They would be Singapore, then followed by HK probably.)

[yoMAMA]

(Technically, I do not believe Japan is the most westernized place in Asia. They would be Singapore, then followed by HK probably.)

yeah but singapore is really into "asian values".

:biggrin:

[CBC guy]

yeah but singapore is really into "asian values".

:biggrin:


The only reason S'pore needs "Asian values" is because its people are too westernized to begin with. :biggrin: :wink: They use English in most of their daily lives, and the Government of S'pore trumpets "Asian values", but the man who started all this, Lee Kuan-Yew, was once known as the "Best Damn Englishman east of Suez" and really feels more comfortable in English than in an Chinese dialect. (My relatives from Singapore speak Cantonese to us but usually speak English to themselves and their kids, who's first language is really English, not Chinese)

Hong Kong people don't go this far but they do pepper in random English phrases into their Cantonese. Many English words have been "internalized" so that they become part of the Cantonese lexicon without a second thought. Ie, "dik si" (taxi) "deen na" (dinner) "pro fea" (professional) and my favourite, the "Emm tee aaallo" (MTR, the Hong Kong subway, which is like God's gift from heaven compared to any subways in western nations i have been on.)

[popculturepooka]

I considered going on the JET program to Japan but the bureaucracy was mind-boggling (I thought China was bad... wow) and overall I just didn't feel it was worth all the holes you had to jump through. Yet in the end I heard English in Japan still sucks for the most part? And yet they are the most "westernized" country in Asia... hmmm....

(Technically, I do not believe Japan is the most westernized place in Asia. They would be Singapore, then followed by HK probably.)

Several friends who have done it. From what I've heard it's not that hard to get in, you just have to have a Bachelors Degree. Oh yeah, it's also cool if you DON'T know Japanese, throw in a bunch of crap (which may or may not be true?:biggrin:) about how you want to experience culture (i.e. green tea/onsens)...and there ya go.

English in Japan sucks. Spoken English at least. They are good at writing and reading though.

Are there places in Singapore that make you feel as if your back in Cananda/America? Because Tokyo has that in spades, I could've sworn I was walking around Los Angeles alot of times.

There's also thousands of words that are imported from America to Japan.
Ex:
Pasokon = Personal Computer
Terebi = TV
Shiidii pureeya = CD player
You get the idea.

Even better? Japlish. Merging the two languages.
Ex:
Maji fuck = real fuck. (i.e. sex with no toys, lol, that's the first thing that came to mind...haha. I had to have a japanese girl explain that to me at first...

Paradox - Regarding the Eigo bandits, it's all good when I'm single, but most of the time I was with my then girlfriend.

[kimpossible]

eigo bandits. lol. i love that.

[CBC guy]

Several friends who have done it. From what I've heard it's not that hard to get in, you just have to have a Bachelors Degree. Oh yeah, it's also cool if you DON'T know Japanese, throw in a bunch of crap (which may or may not be true?:biggrin:) about how you want to experience culture (i.e. green tea/onsens)...and there ya go.

English in Japan sucks. Spoken English at least. They are good at writing and reading though.

Are there places in Singapore that make you feel as if your back in Cananda/America? Because Tokyo has that in spades, I could've sworn I was walking around Los Angeles alot of times.

There's also thousands of words that are imported from America to Japan.
Ex:
Pasokon = Personal Computer
Terebi = TV
Shiidii pureeya = CD player
You get the idea.

Even better? Japlish. Merging the two languages.
Ex:
Maji fuck = real fuck. (i.e. sex with no toys, lol, that's the first thing that came to mind...haha. I had to have a japanese girl explain that to me at first...

Paradox - Regarding the Eigo bandits, it's all good when I'm single, but most of the time I was with my then girlfriend.

Yes I know the Japanese picked up a lot of English loanwords, and I did not say they were NOT westernized compared to other Asian countries, just that westernization has taken on other forms? (hence the baseball (besuboru...sp?) and the "American" places... BTW do the waiters/waitresses there speak good English?)

Because in Singapore and Hong Kong there are a few times where I felt like I was in Britain. (Government offices, certain titles used, atmosphere just felt "British" to me at times. Not as much American though.)

But the Japanese don't have the all-you-can-eat taco specials where 400 LB obese Americans patronize do they?! :eek: I really hope not. :biggrin: So "American" does not mean "better". Actually if I ever go to Japan I plan to eat mostly Japanese food anyways and leave the rest well alone.:redface: (I can get western food in Canada, Chinese food in China... you get the picture. If I'm in Japan I want Japanese food dammit!)

Heck, even China has its attempts at "just like America" places, with names such as "Grandma Boston" (??) and "Italian New York Cook" (?????). (Man I just LOOOOVEE (RABU!!!) Asian English :biggrin:)The waitresses even dress up in cowboy clothing and actually speak passable English. I heard these places actually hold tests in oral english for their waitresses, (alone with the "good looks" test, hmm....:wink: ) which is a start.


EDIT: Parts of Tokyo feel like LA? Like do they have "The Hat" or "El Pollo Loco" or "In-N-Out" (Some of the best damn burgers ever IMO) and surfer dudes with dreads going "Duuuuuude man!" Or the wannabe gangsta rappas? Or the vast sprawl where seemingly every house had a swimming pool?

I will admit Japan has a lot of American-style rock bands though. For example, if you've ever heard of Hotei Tomoyasu, his guitar solos sound..... American to me.

[AngryABCGirl]

i think it's a little better in HK, as far as what parents look for in an English teacher. there're enough Overseas Chinese people, international school kids, and "sent-away-to-the-West" rich kids around that people can see Chinese people as fluent English speakers. but i think HK parents generally like British English teachers more than American English teachers. i did know a British Chinese PhD student that was tutoring English who was making more than someone would make at your basic bank clerk type of job in HK. and i also knew an international school kid that was doing well teaching ESL teachers.

someone correct me if i'm wrong on this, but i think outside of private tutoring, a lot of the reputable English teaching businesses or programs in HK require at least a college education and maybe even some background in teaching, so that kind of eliminates those Westerners that left home to try to "find themselves" by teaching English in another country. actually, maybe it was just the people that i hung out with, but i don't think i ever met any white English teachers in HK, only Chinese ones who were fluent in English.

I think, and I"m just speculating here, HK is a lot harder place in Asia for a Westerner to go bum out and teach English than say, Taiwan, because the cost of living is so high even a 台商 daughter brat like me can barely afford to live the cooshy lifestyle there there with an entry-level job, let alone English teacher bum, like I can here. Plus most white people tend to learn Mandarin, not Cantonese. I think the standards in HK are higher because than can be though, and people are are generally more educated about the outside world and there is a far more noticable of westernized Chinese in HK compared to other Asian countries other than Singapore.

[AngryABCGirl]

The only reason S'pore needs "Asian values" is because its people are too westernized to begin with. :biggrin: :wink: They use English in most of their daily lives, and the Government of S'pore trumpets "Asian values", but the man who started all this, Lee Kuan-Yew, was once known as the "Best Damn Englishman east of Suez" and really feels more comfortable in English than in an Chinese dialect. (My relatives from Singapore speak Cantonese to us but usually speak English to themselves and their kids, who's first language is really English, not Chinese)

Hong Kong people don't go this far but they do pepper in random English phrases into their Cantonese. Many English words have been "internalized" so that they become part of the Cantonese lexicon without a second thought. Ie, "dik si" (taxi) "deen na" (dinner) "pro fea" (professional) and my favourite, the "Emm tee aaallo" (MTR, the Hong Kong subway, which is like God's gift from heaven compared to any subways in western nations i have been on.)

Singapore is probably some Asian American's fantasy island with all the English and Asian crap everywhere. It kinda weirded me out how Westernized a lot of the people are, but at the same time it was a good familiarity when I visited. I had a feeling some people don't understand as well as they gave off though. I like the multi-linguality of it though.
Hong Kong feels a lot closer to being Chinese than Singapore or Taiwan (for many reasons) by leaps and bounds despite the (fading) colonial influence. Most young people there (ie born in Singapore and raised Singaporeans) can speak English better than a Chinese dialect though (from my scientific observation in bars). I noticed looking at the Chinese papers in Singapore that the Chinese was far more rudimentary than the papers in Taiwan, I know Taiwan tends to be more formal and verbose in its writing though. I'm not sure if this is the right trend of the times though.

[CBC guy]

I think, and I"m just speculating here, HK is a lot harder place in Asia for a Westerner to go bum out and teach English than say, Taiwan, because the cost of living is so high even a 台商 daughter brat like me can barely afford to live the cooshy lifestyle there there with an entry-level job, let alone English teacher bum, like I can here. Plus most white people tend to learn Mandarin, not Cantonese. I think the standards in HK are higher because than can be though, and people are are generally more educated about the outside world and there is a far more noticable of westernized Chinese in HK compared to other Asian countries other than Singapore.

I checked the requirements for teaching English in a "real" school in Hong Kong, and yes they were quite high, requiring like a master's degree in Education.

Good thing my parents already have a place in HK where I can bum out. If worst came to worst I can still bum out at my grandma's place as a last resort. In fact, she always wants me to sleep there. :smile:

[Azn Retribution]

http://echelondata.net/gallery/d/80773-1/japanonly8dr.jpg

Xenophobia is fun.

[SunWuKong]

Hong Kong feels a lot closer to being Chinese than Singapore or Taiwan

HK feels closer to being Chinese than Taiwan? really? the only time i was in Taiwan was in 1979 or 1980, so i don't know how it is there.

[SunWuKong]

http://echelondata.net/gallery/d/80773-1/japanonly8dr.jpg

Xenophobia is fun.

isn't it kind of impossible to be a "group of only foreigners" that is "with Japanese"? or did something get lost in translation?

[CBC guy]

isn't it kind of impossible to be a "group of only foreigners" that is "with Japanese"? or did something get lost in translation?

I think what the sign meant was that a group of "only foreigners" (no Japanese) could not enter the pub. If the same group of Foreigners were to enter the same pub escorted by Japanese people, then they could enter the pub.

But why did they single out Filipinos? :confused:

Besides, who gives a flying fuck what they think. I would just go to another pub where they're =willing to do the extra mile for my gaijin-ass yen. :biggrin:

[Azn Retribution]

because us filipinos are obnoxious, loud, money-grubbing, gossipy and ultimately inferior to the genetically superior japanese.

m-i-rite?

and yes. if a japanese individual was with the group.
They could come in.

[AngryABCGirl]

I think what the sign meant was that a group of "only foreigners" (no Japanese) could not enter the pub. If the same group of Foreigners were to enter the same pub escorted by Japanese people, then they could enter the pub.

But why did they single out Filipinos? :confused:

Besides, who gives a flying fuck what they think. I would just go to another pub where they're =willing to do the extra mile for my gaijin-ass yen. :biggrin:

There's a lot of Filipino workers in Japan, that's why. Japan's an interesting place in its dealing with foreigners.

[AngryABCGirl]

HK feels closer to being Chinese than Taiwan? really? the only time i was in Taiwan was in 1979 or 1980, so i don't know how it is there.

Taiwan is kind of just going "台" and just going trying to go Asian modern (which to me really means copying Japanese and Western stuff and recently Korean) and throwing out whatever Chinese-like crap they can when they can. Saying you're Chinese is like a dirty word here.

Just in terms of consumer goods and looks, HK really has the Southern Chinese flavor mimicked in Chinatowns across the world and just plan Chinese influence because of Mainlanders and being part of China now in terms of thinking and culture, both business culture and person to person interaction, while Taiwan has no signs of that and has segments of the population trying to get rid of all signs of that and pretending China doesn't really exist. For instance because of the nationalized health system there aren't as many traditional herbal teas stands, etc. around. Anything old China looking = Mainland, so they have gaudgy green signs for stuff instead.

I don't know how quite to describe it well, perhaps someone whose visited both can probably say it better than me, but if you visit Taiwan for like 15 minutes I think you'll get what I mean.

[Paradox]

Just in terms of consumer goods and looks, HK really has the Southern Chinese flavor mimicked in Chinatowns across the world and just plan Chinese influence because of Mainlanders and being part of China now in terms of thinking and culture, both business culture and person to person interaction, while Taiwan has no signs of that and has segments of the population trying to get rid of all signs of that and pretending China doesn't really exist. For instance because of the nationalized health system there aren't as many traditional herbal teas stands, etc. around. Anything old China looking = Mainland, so they have gaudgy green signs for stuff instead.

I don't know how quite to describe it well, perhaps someone whose visited both can probably say it better than me, but if you visit Taiwan for like 15 minutes I think you'll get what I mean.
It's basically the "new" Chinese style that you see around Southern California and Vancouver with the multiplex shopping centers and neon signs except the entire city is like that. I know what you mean. HK has preserved that traditional feel a little more because the city is so old. If you think about it Taiwan really wasn't anything except a backwater island before the KMT came aboard and started a new nation. So they are a very young nation and I feel that in a lot of ways Taiwanese and Wai sun ren are more keen on keeping up with modernity or disposing of old stuff to make way for new.

I always felt Taiwan has a very temporary feel to everything. Like it just happened to come into existance based on a few historical circumstances. I agree that the country is looking to become a strange combination of Japan and Korea. To me that's not really a bad thing..they are still shaping their own identity. It also shows that pan-asian influences are very strong these days.

[AngryABCGirl]

It's basically the "new" Chinese style that you see around Southern California and Vancouver with the multiplex shopping centers and neon signs except the entire city is like that. I know what you mean. HK has preserved that traditional feel a little more because the city is so old. If you think about it Taiwan really wasn't anything except a backwater island before the KMT came aboard and started a new nation. So they are a very young nation and I feel that in a lot of ways Taiwanese and Wai sun ren are more keen on keeping up with modernity or disposing of old stuff to make way for new.

I always felt Taiwan has a very temporary feel to everything. Like it just happened to come into existance based on a few historical circumstances. I agree that the country is looking to become a strange combination of Japan and Korea. To me that's not really a bad thing..they are still shaping their own identity. It also shows that pan-asian influences are very strong these days.

Yeah that about sums it up. A lot of Taipei just feels like a bigger, condensed, dirtier version of the part of LA I use to live in- minus the tennis courts, foliage, b-ball, courts, swimming pools, and Mexicans. It's not just the look of things though, the temporary feeling really is really a contrast to how it feels compared to HK. HK has this huge sense of establishment in the way New York or London does and people have a very strong sense of identity- past, present, and future.

A lot of people here have a very, I only describe it 失控 and 迷途, a kind of lost sense of identity here in many ways and are searching for one, hence importing in everything it can, based on historical circumstances. It's not really a bad thing per se, but screws over the economy and getting along with the Mainland and creates both a huge inferiority complex and weird kinds of xenophobia.

[popculturepooka]

I think what the sign meant was that a group of "only foreigners" (no Japanese) could not enter the pub. If the same group of Foreigners were to enter the same pub escorted by Japanese people, then they could enter the pub.

But why did they single out Filipinos? :confused:

Besides, who gives a flying fuck what they think. I would just go to another pub where they're =willing to do the extra mile for my gaijin-ass yen. :biggrin:

Alot of Filipino women are prostitutes in Japan.

And to the other questions, waitress speak good English in American restraunts like Hard Rock Cafe, otherwise they practically trip over themselves trying to pull the whole "I no speak English!" routine if you speak English in a non-American joint.

Lol, I'm talking about how alot of them are wannabe gangsta rappers...you should see it, the girls will practically fight each other to have the chance to get laid by an *actual* black person(which I qualify for...tho I'm only half black.:biggrin:), not just the wannabes.
Plus the whole feel is LA, they even has a little sub-culture where Japanese are trying to look like Mexican ganbangers...:frown: :confused:

[Tao]

the girls will practically fight each other to have the chance to get laid by an *actual* black person(which I qualify for...tho I'm only half black.:biggrin:),

words mean nothing. post a pic and prove it. i'll be judging the hotness of these skanks.

[popculturepooka]

words mean nothing. post a pic and prove it. i'll be judging the hotness of these skanks.

I never said they were hot. Most of the time they were just decent.

Maybe one or two "hot" ones.

[Tao]

I never said they were hot. Most of the time they were just decent.

Maybe one or two "hot" ones.

ugh, way to crush my fantasy.....post a pic!

[sageb1]

ugh, way to crush my fantasy.....post a pic!

I bet there are no pics.

[popculturepooka]

While they were skanking/eigo banditing it up, it never crossed my mind to say:
"Hey while your tryna to use me for your english practice/fullfill your fetishization of black guys...do you wanna take a picture? Kthxplz?"

The closest I came to that was a purikura once with some highschool girls. But only cuz we were in an arcade.

[CBC guy]

While they were skanking/eigo banditing it up, it never crossed my mind to say:
"Hey while your tryna to use me for your english practice/fullfill your fetishization of black guys...do you wanna take a picture? Kthxplz?"

The closest I came to that was a purikura once with some highschool girls. But only cuz we were in an arcade.


Post that purikura if you can....:biggrin:

Yes I'm an Asian Asian fetishist. :wink:

[CBC guy]

HK really has plain Chinese influence because of Mainlanders and being part of China now in terms of thinking and culture, both business culture and person to person interaction,

Ok, another little rant here.

I don't know about Taiwan, (so I won't comment on Taiwan) but the cultures of HK and the PRC are quite different. Why do you insist on lumping all of us together simply because "HKSAR is part of the PRC?"

I don't think Hong Kong people are more "Chinese" simply because of "the evil Mainlander tourists" and simply being part of the PRC. The culture is quite different between HK and the PRC. The thought process of HK people does not mirror that of the PRC. We ARE ok with identifying as ethnic and cultural chinese but many HKer's do NOT identify with the PRC "just because we're Chinese." Don't just assume things about people in Hong Kong there are plenty of people in Hong Kong who dislike the PRC's politics. (although to be fair there are an equal amount of people who simply want to do business and avoid provoking the PRC whenever possible) Heck, my own grandmother, born and raised in Guangzhou, HATED the PRC with a passion.

So, we (in Hong Kong) do not have a frothing hatred for Taiwan, Tibet seperatists, Japan, the US, the Falun Gong or whoever the hell is on the PRC's hitlist just because Beijing said so. Hong Kongers simply tend to go with the flow and do business with anyone and everyone.

Besides, about the PRC, why would you homogenize the "PRC Evil Mainland" culture? China is vast, its local customs are many, and locals everywhere jealously guard their own local traditions as well as the country as a whole.

[AngryABCGirl]

Ok, another little rant here.

I don't know about Taiwan, (so I won't comment on Taiwan) but the cultures of HK and the PRC are quite different. Why do you insist on lumping all of us together simply because "HKSAR is part of the PRC?"

I don't think Hong Kong people are more "Chinese" simply because of "the evil Mainlander tourists" and simply being part of the PRC. The culture is quite different between HK and the PRC. The thought process of HK people does not mirror that of the PRC. We ARE ok with identifying as ethnic and cultural chinese but many HKer's do NOT identify with the PRC "just because we're Chinese." Don't just assume things about people in Hong Kong there are plenty of people in Hong Kong who dislike the PRC's politics. (although to be fair there are an equal amount of people who simply want to do business and avoid provoking the PRC whenever possible) Heck, my own grandmother, born and raised in Guangzhou, HATED the PRC with a passion.

So, we (in Hong Kong) do not have a frothing hatred for Taiwan, Tibet seperatists, Japan, the US, the Falun Gong or whoever the hell is on the PRC's hitlist just because Beijing said so. Hong Kongers simply tend to go with the flow and do business with anyone and everyone.

Besides, about the PRC, why would you homogenize the "PRC Evil Mainland" culture? China is vast, its local customs are many, and locals everywhere jealously guard their own local traditions as well as the country as a whole.

Sorry, I really didn't think HK as PRC in any general sense, in fact I've concluded most HK-ers just think of themselves as HK-ers and also Chinese but not Mainland Chinese, and probably die if someone thought they were Mainlander. I don't lump HK with PRC either, it's a totally different place,- but love it or hate it HK is part of China, it's easy to see China's direct influence by influx of people and govt there. The cultural part I mentioned in contrast to Taiwan is mainly in political, economic, and business senses, HK in general knows how to deal smartly with China- that's the big difference and stark contrast to Taiwan. I didn't mean to offend- it's actually a smart move on part of HK and one that will let it thrive for a long time while Taiwan drives itself down the shitter it dug.

Taiwanese people as a whole don't consider themselves anywhere closer to China and are moving completely separate while Hong Kong is moving closer in some sense but at the same time maintaining a very separate strong Hong Kong identity. There's none of that in Taiwan- that's the big difference I'm talking about in the cultural vacuum, that and HK has more preserved elements of traditional Chinese material than Taiwan. If you ask the average joe in Taiwan what they are they say Taiwanese, not Chinese. They think China is just one looming amphorous threat rather than HK looking at ways to make money off the economic boom, it's really only a select population of Taiwan that has any business sense to go there while everyone else kind of piggy-backs.

You really have to have spent a lot of time in both to understand what I'm taking about or interacted with a lot of young Taiwanese in HK. I lived with some hardcore born and raised HK-ers (who think mainlanders are dirty immigrants) for a couple of years and came to these conclusions after visiting HK several times. I know ya'll aren't mainland at all, but HK has woken up to the reality of China, Taiwan is just sleeping right now.

[CBC guy]

Sorry, I really didn't think HK as PRC in any general sense, in fact I've concluded most HK-ers just think of themselves as HK-ers and also Chinese but not Mainland Chinese, and probably die if someone thought they were Mainlander. I don't lump HK with PRC either, it's a totally different place,- but love it or hate it HK is part of China, it's easy to see China's direct influence by influx of people and govt there. The cultural part I mentioned in contrast to Taiwan is mainly in political, economic, and business senses, HK in general knows how to deal smartly with China- that's the big difference and stark contrast to Taiwan. I didn't mean to offend- it's actually a smart move on part of HK and one that will let it thrive for a long time while Taiwan drives itself down the shitter it dug.

Taiwanese people as a whole don't consider themselves anywhere closer to China and are moving completely separate while Hong Kong is moving closer in some sense but at the same time maintaining a very separate strong Hong Kong identity. There's none of that in Taiwan- that's the big difference I'm talking about in the cultural vacuum, that and HK has more preserved elements of traditional Chinese material than Taiwan. If you ask the average joe in Taiwan what they are they say Taiwanese, not Chinese. They think China is just one looming amphorous threat rather than HK looking at ways to make money off the economic boom, it's really only a select population of Taiwan that has any business sense to go there while everyone else kind of piggy-backs.

You really have to have spent a lot of time in both to understand what I'm taking about or interacted with a lot of young Taiwanese in HK. I lived with some hardcore born and raised HK-ers (who think mainlanders are dirty immigrants) for a couple of years and came to these conclusions after visiting HK several times. I know ya'll aren't mainland at all, but HK has woken up to the reality of China, Taiwan is just sleeping right now.

Well, I think a lot of the Hong Kong attitude (outside of small fringe pro- or anti-PRC groups) is " 我是中國人, 不是中華人民共和國的人." What I mean is, they will identify as being ethnic and culturally Chinese (and proud of it) rather than as a "citizen of the PRC" or (even worse) "member of the CCP", which is like a bad word in hong kong. Hong Kong people dislike the CCP, but they (usually) try to help it out any way they can, help the PRC to improve.

Too bad the Government of Hong Kong is screwing around with the identity and heritage of Hong Kong, what with the destruction of the Star Ferry terminal and such. Lots of heritage sites in HK (both Chinese and British) have been lost, and young people in HK are finally taking notice when they decided to demolish the Star Ferry terminal. Right when HK is starting to reawaken to its own roots.

[AngryABCGirl]

Well, I think a lot of the Hong Kong attitude (outside of small fringe pro- or anti-PRC groups) is " 我是中國人, 不是中華人民共和國的人." What I mean is, they will identify as being ethnic and culturally Chinese (and proud of it) rather than as a "citizen of the PRC" or (even worse) "member of the CCP", which is like a bad word in hong kong. Hong Kong people dislike the CCP, but they (usually) try to help it out any way they can, help the PRC to improve.

Too bad the Government of Hong Kong is screwing around with the identity and heritage of Hong Kong, what with the destruction of the Star Ferry terminal and such. Lots of heritage sites in HK (both Chinese and British) have been lost, and young people in HK are finally taking notice when they decided to demolish the Star Ferry terminal. Right when HK is starting to reawaken to its own roots.

That sounds about right about a lot of HK-ers. Most Taiwanese people these days are just about being 台灣人 of "Dai Wan Lang" in Taiwanese and only refer to themselves as such. Ethnic and cultural pride about being Chinese Chinese is a public no-no, again big difference. A good amount of people will say they are 華人, but few will say 中國人 in public and mainly only older people say they are as an identity.

China is a just a scary cloud over the sea.

[SunWuKong]

on the question of how HKers identify - i think it's difficult to generalise either way, on how much they rest their personal identity as a part of the PRC. some can be very pro-PRC, and some can be very anti.

but most seem to agree that Falun Gong is annoying. :tongue:

[popculturepooka]

Post that purikura if you can....:biggrin:

Yes I'm an Asian Asian fetishist. :wink:

http://pHosted.com/0706/l_1b0553dda7c59ed34a4ac6400c369ac4.jpg

Linked.

It's the only one I could find, I think I lost most of them, and it was just two of the girls by themselves.

[Tao]

^ the one on the right is cute. please tell me you banged both of them.

[CBC guy]

http://pHosted.com/0706/l_1b0553dda7c59ed34a4ac6400c369ac4.jpg

Linked.

It's the only one I could find, I think I lost most of them, and it was just two of the girls by themselves.

Kawaii desu ne! I really like the one on the right. :biggrin:

[BeTheReds]

I was there for three years in Japan. Didn't have trouble finding girls, but my situation is probably different than yours.

Cheers Mate.

[popculturepooka]

^ the one on the right is cute. please tell me you banged both of them.

:wink: :biggrin: :redface: :rolleyes: :smile:

[Tao]

:wink: :biggrin: :redface: :rolleyes: :smile:

awesome...you should be an example for all the whiny bitches on here. show them how it's fuckin done.

[yoMAMA]

:wink: :biggrin: :redface: :rolleyes: :smile:

this is yw's reply of the year.

[Banana]

I'm guessing no, he didn't.

[popculturepooka]

^
You'd be wrong, my friend.

[eos]

wait wait wait.....

PROVE IT.

there.

EDIT: i'm not interested but i know the guys are.

[Tao]

wait wait wait.....

PROVE IT.

there.

EDIT: i'm not interested but i know the guys are.

admit it, you want to see him naked...you pedophile.

[popculturepooka]

^
Hey I'm legal!!! . (^_~)

I turn 19 next week anywho..

And really, how would one prove that?

[eos]

tony, don't project your fantasies onto me.