What is this dialect I speak?

[Kato]

Maybe someone can answer this for me. I grew up speaking Chinese at home with my parents because their English was very limited. However, I could never understand any Chinese on TV or in movies. The dialect is not Mandarin and it's not Cantonese, although I've recognized a few phrases in Cantonese like when two people greet each other. My parents are from Canton, China.

My mother can speak both Mandarin and Cantonese with other people, but at home we seem to use this other dialect. I asked my mother what it was once but she could only tell me in Chinese. Does anyone know what this other dialect might be from Canton, and what it's called in English? How many dialects come from Canton?

[VV o n g B a]

have u looked at this?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Chinese_dialects

[hkRT]

Maybe Toishan or Hokkien?

[Kato]

have u looked at this?

I can't seem to get this link. It freezes my browser.

[AngryABCGirl]

I'm thinking it's Toisan, Hakka, or Teochew. Where in Canton?

[SunWuKong]

there are a lot of dialects spoken in Guangdong. it would help if you gave us some examples of how you speak it.

[Kato]

Maybe Toishan or Hokkien?

Well, that's interesting. Now, if I can only figure out a way to verify that. It's an obscure dialect, that's for sure, because I never hear anyone speaking it.

I think I'll take lessons to learn Cantonese, since there does seem to be some variation thereof.

Thx.

[Kato]

I'm thinking it's Toisan, Hakka, or Teochew. Where in Canton?

Sorry, I don't know where, and I'm not able to get that info unfortunately.

[Kato]

there are a lot of dialects spoken in Guangdong. it would help if you gave us some examples of how you speak it.

I'm not sure how I would do that, I can't write Chinese. In fact, I can't even speak what I speak very well, just haven't needed it in so many years. If there are a lot of dialects then that's funny because I thought there might just be a third dialect and it would be easy for someone to narrow down for me.

I'm going to learn Cantonese and get it over with.

[renfro]

Maybe your parents made up their own dialect to speak at home, just to mess with you.

[Kato]

Hilarious! But that would mean some of their friends are in on it because some of them speak the same.

[deez nuts]

mandarin is all you need. don't worry about any other dialects, they're low class and uneducated.

[mr. x]

^---I think the richest women in Asia would disagree

[SunWuKong]

^---I think the richest women in Asia would disagree

she recently died and left all her money to her fortune teller.

[Kato]

mandarin is all you need. don't worry about any other dialects, they're low class and uneducated.

Don't all the movie stars from Hong Kong and everyone else there speak Cantonese? That's the first time I ever heard it being called low class and uneducated.

[didu]

Don't all the movie stars from Hong Kong and everyone else there speak Cantonese? That's the first time I ever heard it being called low class and uneducated.

Yes they do, but Canton has never really been the province of high class -- sure it's been rich for a couple of hundred years, but never high class. You know why Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon was so poorly received in the mainland? Partly it was because of the totally out dated fighting sequences, but a lot of it was because of the extremely awkward fake Mandarin spoken by two of the main characters.

[sageb1]

Kato, give us some dialect, something simple like:

"What's up?"

or

"OK, great."

Though I don't know the dialect yet, you have the Asian behavior down pat.

[Kato]

I'm not sure how I would do that without actually talking to you. Also, what did you mean by "you have the Asian behaviour down pat"?

[LaiSteve66]

Don't all the movie stars from Hong Kong and everyone else there speak Cantonese? That's the first time I ever heard it being called low class and uneducated.

Here's a friendly tip, don't take anything deez nuts says seriously. He's the site clown.

[eos]

if any dialect is low class and uneducated, it's fucking toishanese. add in HIGH VOLUME, smoking, hocking loogies and VOILA! fob central.

[sageb1]

I'm not sure how I would do that without actually talking to you. Also, what did you mean by "you have the Asian behaviour down pat"?

you got shy trying to write down what you speak at home.

[Kato]

if any dialect is low class and uneducated, it's fucking toishanese. add in HIGH VOLUME, smoking, hocking loogies and VOILA! fob central.

You should never generalize. The rest of the world do enough generalizing about all of us. I haven't ascertained what my dialect is yet, but it could be Toishanese for all I know, and I was raised a well-mannered person.

[Kato]

you got shy trying to write down what you speak at home.

I'm not shy about it, I'm really not sure how you would have me do that.

And you mean being shy about one's background is typical Asian behaviour? That would be sad and I don't think it's that prevalent.

[shane]

See if you can post an audio sample of ordinary conversational speech online. Then we can move from there. Written Chinese is written chinese - with the exception of a handful of non-Han ethnicities, it's generally all written the same.

[tint]

but it could be Toishanese for all I know
If it's Toishan, you should have no problem speaking Cantonese. The largest concentration of Toishan in the US are New York and San Francisco. Ask your parents which part of Guangdong they are from. That would help a lot. What is your family name?

[Kato]

See if you can post an audio sample of ordinary conversational speech online.

That's an idea but I don't have the technology for that, I only access a computer at work. Limited amount of things I can do here.

[Kato]

If it's Toishan, you should have no problem speaking Cantonese. The largest concentration of Toishan in the US are New York and San Francisco. Ask your parents which part of Guangdong they are from. That would help a lot. What is your family name?

Then it's not Toishan, because I cannot understand Cantonese except for a few words. My parents are not around anymore.

It's apparently too hard to figure out like this. I had naively thought that there might only be one or two other dialects, and so therefore it would be easy to narrow down. I'm sure I can figure it out some other way on this end.

So I'm pulling the plug on this thread. But you guys really impressed me with your effort to help me out. This was my first posting and I felt a good community here.

[tvbdude]

Have you ever asked another chinese person what dialect you speak?

[SunWuKong]

If it's Toishan, you should have no problem speaking Cantonese.

not necessarily true. a lot of pronounciation and vocabulary are different.

[Kato]

Have you ever asked another chinese person what dialect you speak?

I did, I asked a coworker who spoke fluent Chinese; Cantonese I think it was. I spoke a few things for him but he didn't know what it was.

But coming to think of it, I had worked with several Chinese speaking coworkers in my time but it only occurred to me to ask that one person that one time. And I don't work with any Chinese people now. I'll have to keep this in mind for the next opportunity.

[NextNoName]

Probably Hakka. Many Chinese are Hakka, and many Hakka are in Guangdong. On the other hand, if your mother was not originally from Guangzhou, well she could be speaking any language from her hometown.

[misschopstix]

If it's Toishan, you should have no problem speaking Cantonese. The largest concentration of Toishan in the US are New York and San Francisco. Ask your parents which part of Guangdong they are from. That would help a lot. What is your family name?

I'm ABC, but grew up speaking Toishan and I can tell you it's completely different from Cantonese. I couldn't speak Cantonese until later in life when most of my friends spoke Cantonese and they laughed when I tried to speak it (with a Toishan accent). My Cantonese friends don't understand Toishan except for a few common phrases like "Hak Fon" (eat rice). Here's another one but Cantonese don't really understand it "ooh gay" (hungry). Kato, do these phrases sound familiar to you?

[Kato]

My Cantonese friends don't understand Toishan except for a few common phrases like "Hak Fon" (eat rice). Here's another one but Cantonese don't really understand it "ooh gay" (hungry). Kato, do these phrases sound familiar to you?

Now we're getting somewhere. I definitely recognized those phrases, except the Hak Fon is not pronounced exactly like that. Hak is pronounced more like Hiek but still it's not exact, the English alphabet can't really accomodate it.

Okay, let me try that. How about "Gung Hung Va" (speak Chinese). "Fon Kay" (Go home).

If you understand those then the dialect could be Toishan, then?
Would it rule out the other dialects previously mentioned?

[SunWuKong]

Now we're getting somewhere. I definitely recognized those phrases, except the Hak Fon is not pronounced exactly like that. Hak is pronounced more like Hiek but still it's not exact, the English alphabet can't really accomodate it.

Okay, let me try that. How about "Gung Hung Va" (speak Chinese). "Fon Kay" (Go home).

If you understand those then the dialect could be Toishan, then?
Would it rule out the other dialects previously mentioned?

that sounds like Hoi Saan Wa. :wink:

[misschopstix]

Now we're getting somewhere. I definitely recognized those phrases, except the Hak Fon is not pronounced exactly like that. Hak is pronounced more like Hiek but still it's not exact, the English alphabet can't really accomodate it.

Okay, let me try that. How about "Gung Hung Va" (speak Chinese). "Fon Kay" (Go home).

If you understand those then the dialect could be Toishan, then?
Would it rule out the other dialects previously mentioned?

YES! I understood all of that. And you're right it's pronounced "Hiek". for eat. Those phrases are definitely Toishan! What about this one, "Say Doy Bow" (bad little boy) and "Hoo Jee Doy" (American Born Child). I'm 99% sure you're Toishanese.

[eos]

my grandma loved to say this to me when i was bad: dung ngau niew luht ni gaw hiew! (means "i'll twist off your head!") once i cried and asked her how would i see and everyone started laughing.

[lethal]

if any dialect is low class and uneducated, it's fucking toishanese. add in HIGH VOLUME, smoking, hocking loogies and VOILA! fob central.

Busted?

[eos]

what? i never said i wasn't part toishanese. i still hate how it sounds.

and stop calling me. i don't even know HOW you got my number.

[misschopstix]

my grandma loved to say this to me when i was bad: dung ngau niew luht ni gaw hiew! (means "i'll twist off your head!") once i cried and asked her how would i see and everyone started laughing.

LOL! I remember that phrase.. "dung ngau niew" means "think i'm dumb?". That's not as bad as when I heard my dad cuss in Toishan like "say chew hai, eew nekga ma ga hoy" Boy I hope I don't get banned for this. I don't think Kato would recognize the latter phrases if his dad wasn't gangsta like mine...LOL

[eos]

^omg!!! toishan swearing sounds soooooooo much more vulgar than regular cantonese swearing.

[misschopstix]

Sorry, got a little carried away....

I'm just too Toishan. A-too-ee ma?? (translation: can you tell?).

Ok, I'll stop now!! Hopefully if Kato recognizes any of my rambling in Toishan, then he'll know what dialect he speaks which basically rules out all of the other dialects. Have a great weekend folks!

[kasia]

Now we're getting somewhere. I definitely recognized those phrases, except the Hak Fon is not pronounced exactly like that. Hak is pronounced more like Hiek but still it's not exact, the English alphabet can't really accomodate it.

Okay, let me try that. How about "Gung Hung Va" (speak Chinese). "Fon Kay" (Go home).

If you understand those then the dialect could be Toishan, then?
Would it rule out the other dialects previously mentioned?

haha. that's toishanese, except you might be speaking it like an ABC, which would explain why you don't really understand regular cantonese. that's the case with a lot of ABC's who grow up in SF.

canto and toishan are pretty similar to me:

Speak Chinese:
canto - gong tong wa.
toishan - gong hong va.

Go Home:
canto - fahn nguk kay.
toishan - fahn nguk kee.
(fahn kay is probably just a short version that your family uses.)

if you know toishan, you should be able to pick up cantonese very easily.

[kasia]

LOL! I remember that phrase.. "dung ngau niew" means "think i'm dumb?". That's not as bad as when I heard my dad cuss in Toishan like "say chew hai, eew nekga ma ga hoy" Boy I hope I don't get banned for this. I don't think Kato would recognize the latter phrases if his dad wasn't gangsta like mine...LOL

lol @ misschopstix. that's pretty damn good. haha.

[lethal]

what? i never said i wasn't part toishanese. i still hate how it sounds.

and stop calling me. i don't even know HOW you got my number.

You taking Toishanese to me?

[SunWuKong]

if you know toishan, you should be able to pick up cantonese very easily.

the two dialects are close, but i wouldn't say that if you know one, you can pick up the other "easily". of course, exposure to it at an early age certainly helps.

[hkRT]

Toishan and Cantonese sound quite different. My grandma could speak both Toishan and Cantonese. But I could not understand Toishan at all. Toishan was rarely spoken. My grandparents only spoke Cantonese to us.

[Kato]

that sounds like Hoi Saan Wa. :wink:

I've heard my mother call a dialect Saan Va before; I always thought she was referring to Mandarin.

[Kato]

Okay, I'm having trouble recognizing some of this but it's probably because the way you're spelling it is not exactly the way it's pronounced. Also, I'm only about 60 to 70 % fluent in Chinese anyway.

"Say Doy Bow" (bad little boy) and "Hoo Jee Doy" (American Born Child). Here, I know Doy is boy but I don't know the rest. If I was to say your boy is bad, it would be like “nayga doy mhaw”. Recognize that?


“dung ngau niew luht ni gaw hiew!” Here, I recognize “ni gaw hiew”. That's “your head”. But I would pronounce “hiew” like “how”.

“chew hai, eew nekga ma ga hoy” Ha, Ha, this sounds really familiar.
I've definitely heard “chew hai” before. Literally, it can translate as “smelly shoe” but I guess it can have a figurative meaning.

So, have we narrowed it to Toishan?

[SunWuKong]

So, have we narrowed it to Toishan?

i'm pretty sure, if you recognise some of those sayings.

[misschopstix]

Some people have heavier Toishan accents than others, therefore not all of the words are pronounced exactly the same. But what you are speaking is definitely Toishan. ^^

[Kato]

Well, I've finally identified it. Thanks to all.

[SunWuKong]

Well, I've finally identified it. Thanks to all.

really, all you had to say was eew nek ma ga hoy and this would have been over long ago.


duma!

[Kato]

really, all you had to say was eew nek ma ga hoy and this would have been over long ago.


duma!


Because I've never written Chinese sounds in English before, and English can't really accomodate the exact way Chinese is often spoken, so I was unsure how you expected me to do that.

What does "duma" mean? An insult, I take it?

[Kato]

Well, I think I've waited long enough for an answer, but it doesn't matter, the tone of the message is insulting. You like to hit and run, apparently. That's cowardly. I'm a bit puzzled and amused at what may have brought that on, you seem to be a small person.

If your attitude is representative of the rest of this site, then I think I'll leave and let you indulge in it.

[Napoleon Chynamite]

huh?

[eos]

i see you found out what duma means. but i don't think insulting you was SWK's intent. you need to chill.

[Napoleon Chynamite]

duma duma yay
duma duma duma yay
chipul tau si dragostea din tei
mi amintesc de occhii tei~

[SunWuKong]

Well, I think I've waited long enough for an answer, but it doesn't matter, the tone of the message is insulting. You like to hit and run, apparently. That's cowardly. I'm a bit puzzled and amused at what may have brought that on, you seem to be a small person.

If your attitude is representative of the rest of this site, then I think I'll leave and let you indulge in it.

duma is the Vietnamese equivalent of eew nek ma ga hoy in Hoi Saan.

(isn't it? i only know a little Hoi Saan.)

[Kato]

i see you found out what duma means. but i don't think insulting you was SWK's intent. you need to chill.


Actually, I was quite cool, not heated up, when I wrote it. And I had left it alone for quite awhile. The humour on this site must be an acquired taste.

[Napoleon Chynamite]

Welcome to earth...

[eos]

a couple of hours is quite a while to you, eh? i still don't think it was insulting, but whatever~

[Kato]

a couple of hours is quite a while to you, eh? i still don't think it was insulting, but whatever~


The times don't seem to be recording accurately, it was about 24 hrs actually, and also there might be a time zone difference in there.

In any case, right or wrong, this is your space and I'm out of place here. I will leave it at that.

Good luck to everyone, I hope you all do well.

[kasia]

grrrr...either angry or just clueless. i take it as the latter considering he/she didn't even know what *language* he/she spoke for however many years. how crazy is that!

anyway, has anyone seen the documentary "who killed vincent chin?" we watched it at some event a few years back - vincent chin and his mom were toisan. after the film, some of my friends were mocking the language. that was probably the first taste i got of what it was like to be vietnamese and having ppl mock your language. not cool.

[Adaon]

So much drama for so little exchange.

:rolleyes:

Granted, I was PRETTY sure what duma was referring to.

I'm not sure why someone expects to be treated like someone we respect right off the bat, since we don't always know who we're dealin' with. Heck, even though, I'm comfortable with a bunch of the members here, some of the word fights I've had with them seem like world war II compared to this thread. Meh. Another one bites the dust.

[hapy]

Sorry I don't know anything about this. Why don't join at chinese which are translated in english at the botton.