Family vs. Spouse

[nicedream]

I am curious to hear of any similar stories and what you have done... My wife is white, my family is not. We take our daughter to see my parents about once a week. It is bad enough that my wife does not feel my parents have any interest in her, and on top of that she feels disrespected by my parents because they make no effort to include her in any conversations. She has made the effort to talk to them and there has been instances of them just disregarding her. I've asked my parents to be more talkative with her, but by the next week, everything is back to the way it was. I understand my parents' English is really poor, but they manage to function just fine outside of their house, so we know they can do it if they want to. I can't fully empathize with my wife. I know that it is hurtful but for her the situation is consuming her and depressing her. She has expressed that we (her, me, our daughter) should not have any contact with my parents. Thoughts?

[BeTheReds]

Moving to Rant?
------

Advice.. don't let your wife's insecurites prevent you and your children from having contact with your parents, that's just wrong. Encourage your parents some more to try to bond with her at least. And if nothing works, just go visit your parents without her, but at least bring your kid along too...

[Faithless]

I'm not getting the complete pic:

When you ask your folks why they don't talk to your wife, what is their reasoning? The "language barrier"?

Does your wife have some character thing that the parents don't like?

[nicedream]

I simply asked them to be more talkative. I did not ask them why. I assumed it is their poor English.

[ru a banana?]

I simply asked them to be more talkative. I did not ask them why. I assumed it is their poor English.

Were your parents against the marriage in the 1st place? You mentioned in the 1st post that she is white. Is this an issue with them, seeing as you brought it up?

[nicedream]

They never objected to our marriage. They adore our daughter.

[ru a banana?]

white - ?

[nicedream]

white - ?

not sure what you are asking... wife is white, yes.

[ru a banana?]

Naahhh, If your parents were uncomfortable with her being white? (o:

[nicedream]

with the exception of the current situation, they've never expressed any problem. So... what have other people done to rectify this? Is this a common problem?

my wife refuses to let this go on. my family is oblivious. I plan on having another talk with them, but I don't see them changing.

[ru a banana?]

I've seen and been involved in these situations, both as a child and an adult. As the answer's given it does not seem that race is an issue, which is good. It is a very difficult place for you to be in as you love both. ): You mentioned that you guys are over there or visiting with them once a week. I do not know what you/her normal social life is, but this is very frequent. If you look at the converse side, if you were at her family's 1x per week to make it fair..., then add in f.ex. times to visit with other friends that you both have in common or separately, maybe 1x per week or even every other, plus (hopefully) wifey/hubby time, then add in play dates etc. for you daughter. WOW. Are you gettin this? I'm sure you love both sides, and both sides are playing an active part in this... which is wearing on you. Sit down and plan out a more appealing schedule where everyone is getting = quality time alone with you.

Hey, you're a popular guy, what can I say? (o; You can't force your parents to change, and by continuing the way things have, you will not create a harmonized family life for daughter. If your parents want to spend time more with daughter, then, they can f.ex. have her without you being there I'm sure. I'm sure the added frustration on wifes part is because she has tried you have to give her credit for that. Of course, you could continue on your (not so merry way) and evt. get less sex, less tlc, less empathy in return, more division in family, silence, hurt betrayal, etc. That would not benefit daughter, you, your parents, or your wife.

[ru a banana?]

oops, I forgot alone time. Gotta have alone time when you have a kid. Or even without one... (0:

[Jin/晋]

For advice, the person above does a good job.

I simply asked them to be more talkative. I did not ask them why. I assumed it is their poor English.

Quite simply, do not assume, you should never assume. Talk for with them for as long as it takes to get to the problem.

I do also agree that perhaps your wife feels that you feel way more for your parents than you do for her. She is just using your parents as a way to complain.

[LaiSteve66]

Hmmmm, not sure what to say. My White mother couldn't speak with my Vietnamese grandmother because my grandmother doesn't know any English.

[ru a banana?]

Yeah, my g.gma didn't know much english either, but that never stopped her from smiling, nodding, getting my white mother involved with small things so she felt a part. Love/rudeness is in the small, intangible things that I believe go without words. Such as if someone is glaring or completely ignoring you, and as you mentioned they do fine outside of home with others, then body language says more than 1000 words you know. But if you cannot change them, which is difficult, then definitely >>>

try the getting a better plan that is compatible and imbalanced with your new family life (Between you, your wife and daughter) and extended family life, (you, your parents, daughter, possibly your wife ...if it works out.) You want to give your daughter 2 parents working together-with each other as #1, just as I hope you had and that is why you respect your parents so much.

[mrazntre]

In my opinion, I don't think your parents are disrespecting your wife in as much as they are not respecting her enough. BUT, how much is your wife respecting your parents? Respect the fact that they speak poor English, etc.

Granted, I haven't had to deal with that situation, but in a way I can relate as I'm not as fluent as I should be and I'm not always on the level with my grandparents. Sometimes I kinda just hover around them and not really talk because it's easier than trying to think about what to say, how to say it, and then decipher what they're saying. I mean, I can understand it, but gramps went through a stroke has alzheimer's and my grams talks like a mad asian woman - so it's hard to understand them. Plus add in the generational gap.

Before you go visit your parents, remind them to try to talk to your wife because she feels left out. On the flip, is your wife trying to learn your language? It's gotta go both ways for it to work. She came into the family, she's got to continually put that foot forward in this particular situation.

I do understand that there's a difference between ignoring someone and trying to make it work by gesturing and other forms of communication, but honestly, that's just a personality type thing. If your parents aren't like that, then you can't expect them to change.

[ru a banana?]

Yeah, agreed about wife trying to learn their language idea. ^ It could help, Esp. if the situation isn't too tense already.

[mrazntre]

Yeah, agreed about wife trying to learn their language idea. ^ It will help, Esp. if the situation isn't too tense already.

Fixed it for you. I'm a genius, please don't downplay my greatness.

[ru a banana?]

cocky much? (o: Ok, I won't agree with your brilliance any more. No worries. *yaaaawwwn*

[mrazntre]

what's that saying?
cocky, borderline arrogant

Actually, after rereading my advice it appears to be very sound unless of course the OP had already tried that with his wife. the final option of not having contact with his parents is absolutely ludicrous, especially at her suggestion and not his.

[ru a banana?]

Who said he wasn't to have contact with parents? That wasn't an option I read?

[mrazntre]

Who said he wasn't to have contact with parents? That wasn't an option I read?

"She has expressed that we (her, me, our daughter) should not have any contact with my parents."

Are you a skimmer?

[ru a banana?]

I didn't think of it as a viable option. from memory *delete, delete* (o:

[mrazntre]

yeah, that would really suck. selfish even...

[ru a banana?]

although personally speaking, who goes for a family time with parents 1x per week? I can get the visit with g.daughter thing, but jeesh. There are a lot of other things to do, people to see places to go etc.

[mrazntre]

although personally speaking, who goes for a family time with parents 1x per week? I can get the visit with g.daughter thing, but jeesh. There are a lot of other things to do, people to see places to go etc.

hypothetically,

if they live next door to his in-laws and his parents lived an hour away, then a trip once a week wouldn't be bad, right? i think we need to hear more about the context of the situation from the OP

[nicedream]

so i spoke with my mom. she got defensive and looked hurt. and of course she brought up all the points that i've already brought up to my wife. i.e. her English is poor, she does not have much to say, that it does not reflect how she feels, that she really does not talk much to her co-workers, etc. etc.

so now everyone is miserable. YAY!

[deez nuts]

just tell your parent that you've won at life by having a white wife. they'll see the light.

[ru a banana?]

But that is a good sign! (Although somewhat iffy presently) So then do what mrazn... said and get your wife to learn some of your mother language. Have her bring flowers or something. (I hope you didn't let it all out with mother about wifey not wanting any contact, cuz then shit...some apologies might be in order) It was all a great big misunderstanding culturally, etc. That is def. not irreparable.

[Adaon]

Admittedly, the language barrier is there, now established, but there are more than a couple ways to communicate than just speech. Keeping in mind that both are mothers, now just separated by generation, in the same family, it's not like they couldn't go to one another for such things.

Your wife could try and piece meal a conversation with your mom about how to cook something that you liked as a kid, that might work for your daughter too.

Your mom can get more active talking to your wife about what goings on in her grand-daughter's life.

Hopefully I'm not being to presumptious in throwing those out, but I mean, they seem like easy to do/talk about subjects.

The cooking idea doesn't even really even really need much speech to be honest. I learned how to cook paella with a 2nd yr spanish listening comprehension level from my friend's grandma, after I had her translate that I loved the stuff. She did prep work, got me involved, used her broken english and simplified spanish phrases for me to get it down, and now my friend bugs me to make paella when she can't see granny.

Sorry, just throwing stuff out there.

[ru a banana?]

Admittedly, the language barrier is there, now established, but there are more than a couple ways to communicate than just speech. Keeping in mind that both are mothers, now just separated by generation, in the same family, it's not like they couldn't go to one another for such things.

Your wife could try and piece meal a conversation with your mom about how to cook something that you liked as a kid, that might work for your daughter too.


Sorry, just throwing stuff out there.

I think good advice to try for many relationships involving cross cultural and language barriers. ^

[mrazntre]

Oooh... I just had a fucking epiphany.

maybe your mom is afraid of white people?

[ru a banana?]

Ouch, that must have hurt. ^ Hows the head doing? (o:

I'm sure both mother and wife are good women. Maybe get some books or something for wife about parents culture, or have her visit some of these sites online. It takes work, to join 2 dif. cultures. Besides, it could help her to learn a little for daughters benefit.

[AngryABCGirl]

although personally speaking, who goes for a family time with parents 1x per week? I can get the visit with g.daughter thing, but jeesh. There are a lot of other things to do, people to see places to go etc.

This is actually pretty standard in Chinese culture, Sunday is family day! Most Asian people know in college did it if they lived nearby, now I do it on a rickety bus to the countryside on Sundays, or I use to a lot more. So, while not being married nor having a child, I can sympatheize with a bit of the pressure that this gives, especially cross-culturally. I admit it wasn't as easy as I thought it would be to get along and talk with my Taiwanese relatives on the weekends all the time, with all the different viewpoints on life, despite having no language barrier. This post kind of reminded me of it.

One thing that helped was doing an activity together, like cooking, going out somewhere etc. that doesn't require long conversation, in your case this might be especially important, but is still bonding.

Another thing too though, is over-expectations. Just because your parents don't talk to your wife doesn't mean they don't like her, etc. I have the impression they do respect your marriage based on how much you respect them as a son, but don't particularly know how to act around it or perhaps relate to your wife, so they don't say anything. They might even be worried about accidentally offending her and probably don't know how to express their feelings to her, that's kind of what I am hearing from your mother's reaction. The heart of this is probably a culture clash, maybe your wife expects more gestures your parents don't feel are totally necessary. This is something I had to deal with, my family here felt like they not only had to take care of me but watch out for me since I am here. I'm use to living alone without answering to anyone and talking to my parents very openly about things, whereas I probably shouldn't have told my relatives about my penchant for nightlife and vice or identity for that matter.

I found other common ground. I have to admit it has become necessary for me to see the older ones as much, but I have no problem getting together with my 20-something cousins- a generational gap might be here too between your wife and your parents.

Despite all this though, I think it's important that at least you and your daughter go see your parents, even if your life comes along. I think a lot of it may stem your wife's feelings of being left out in a cultural vacuum. Nothing's perfect, but there's more important things than being right and expectations.

In the end I think push for more compromise from both sides, and maybe emphasize that there is a lack of understanding. I don't think anyone is trying to intentionaly hurt each other here.

[eos]

every fucking day is family day for me. *makes a noose gesture*

anyway, my uncle married a white woman and things were super tense in the beginning. however, after the kids came, things got better. also it helps to have family that actually speaks english to come by and hang around. my family is bilingual so my aunt can talk to the rest of us at family gatherings. i don't think my aunt ever felt left out or anything....it's not like she didn't know what she was getting into when she married my uncle.

[kimpossible]

I am curious to hear of any similar stories and what you have done... My wife is white, my family is not. We take our daughter to see my parents about once a week. It is bad enough that my wife does not feel my parents have any interest in her, and on top of that she feels disrespected by my parents because they make no effort to include her in any conversations. She has made the effort to talk to them and there has been instances of them just disregarding her. I've asked my parents to be more talkative with her, but by the next week, everything is back to the way it was. I understand my parents' English is really poor, but they manage to function just fine outside of their house, so we know they can do it if they want to. I can't fully empathize with my wife. I know that it is hurtful but for her the situation is consuming her and depressing her. She has expressed that we (her, me, our daughter) should not have any contact with my parents. Thoughts?


My input: it's her responsibility to communicate with your parents. Not your parents' responsibility to communicate for her. She needs to cue into the language spoken in the family she married into. It's rude to make everyone else change to accomodate her.

And I walk this talk. Have for many years. My Chinese is shaky at best but I do use it.

My specific advice for her, assuming she's really interested in actual change for the better here, is to find a way to bond with mom. Could be cooking, shopping, doesn't matter. Find something. I used to cook with my mother in law, take her shopping, take tasks that were hard for her off her hands, watch soaps with her, etc. But then we were pretty close. If you see me using past tense here it's because, sadly, she lost a battle with cancer.

I miss my mother in law like mad. Your wife should be THANKFUL for her mother in law, treat her like the treasured woman she is for raising a man such as yourself and cherish each second you all get as a family.

[kimpossible]

although personally speaking, who goes for a family time with parents 1x per week? I can get the visit with g.daughter thing, but jeesh. There are a lot of other things to do, people to see places to go etc.

We do. We may even move back 'home' if not to Taiwan more immediately. Our son needs his family. And good Chinese.

[eos]

i actually WANT to spend time with my bf's mom. she's been through a lot and now i think it's time to pamper her and let her live the good life.

[ru a banana?]

Mmmmm, that is a good relationship you guys must have. My uncle's fam. go everyweekend to be with grandmother. My dad/family does not. Always wondered if this is a traditional chinese thing or which cultures did this. My grandmother is actually japanese, my grandfather was chinese...so don't know which side it comes from.

[eos]

when i was small, every weekend was spent with my mom's family. my dad absolutely hated it because all they did was take us shopping and spoil us. but we hated going to my dad's side cuz all they did was make fun of us and watch us cry.

and with my bf's mom.....i just buy her lots of presents =) LOL

[juice]

nicedream - lots of good advice, but remember that you are married now and your wife and child come before anyone else.

[Faithless]

nicedream - lots of good advice, but remember that you are married now and your wife and child come before anyone else.
What if a person's wife is sort of an embarrassment to the family (http://forums.yellowworld.org/showpost.php?p=508088&postcount=6)?

[kimpossible]

nicedream - lots of good advice, but remember that you are married now and your wife and child come before anyone else.

His wife isn't facing abuse, neglect or any sort of ill treatment so that's a largely unqualified statement. There's not much for him to do directly and there's no reason he has to be in a no-win situation of picking either mom or wife.

She's a grown women, wife and a mother. Part of a larger family. What's most important is, should I really need to pick one, is the child's needs in all of this. Grandparents are not disposable.

There's a way to work this out through compromise. Nicedream, I'm going to say firmly: do NOT accept to be in a position where you feel forced to choose between family members.

Try working through things first. Support your wife's efforts but as a mom and a person living in her circumstances than probably anyone else here, you have to be a mom first and not get in the way of your child's relationship with grandparents or your husband's relationship with his parents just because you don't feel as comfortable as you like.

As a hapa, I can tell you that your child needs as much contact with the Asian side of the family in the US. Any and all language gained in the process is a bonus and will have a direct affect on your child's future well being and ability to interact with Asians.

Do not undervalue this. It's important for our kids to know there's nothing wrong with being Asian, there's nothing wrong with speaking an Asian language, and organically develop interaction in an Asian social setting.

Essentially, I wholeheartedly disagree with siding with either your mom OR your wife. The situation isn't that far gone. You can work through it.

[benihana]

nicedream - lots of good advice, but remember that you are married now and your wife and child come before anyone else.

I second that.

You are a husband. You are married to your wife, not to your mother and father. That is not to say you should disregard your parents and all they stand for.

I don't think it's unreasonable for your parents to speak English to your wife. If they are able to speak English, why wouldn't they speak it around someone who only speaks English? Why would they want to alienate someone like that? If they couldn't speak English, that would be another story.

Are there things they are hiding from your wife? Do they not want to include her in their family?

There is a fine line between respecting your parents and permitting them to ignore your wife.

I would proceed with caution.

You are also setting an example for your daughter. Take care of her mother. That is the most important thing you can do.

[Adaon]

I second that.

You are a husband. You are married to your wife, not to your mother and father. That is not to say you should disregard your parents and all they stand for.

I don't think it's unreasonable for your parents to speak English to your wife. If they are able to speak English, why wouldn't they speak it around someone who only speaks English? Why would they want to alienate someone like that? If they couldn't speak English, that would be another story.

Are there things they are hiding from your wife? Do they not want to include her in their family?

There is a fine line between respecting your parents and permitting them to ignore your wife.

I would proceed with caution.

You are also setting an example for your daughter. Take care of her mother. That is the most important thing you can do.

As much as this sounds like more sound advice, I can't help, but feel that this statement smacks of a an accusatory tone of inactivity on the parents' part where to "welcome" their daughter-in-law into their family.
Even the way that Benihana is questioning the motives for his parents' actions/lack of action shows a lack of understanding or knowledge of how things in an Asian/Asian American household works. The parents are where the buck stops in an Asian household. Even grown Asian American children find themselves at odds with first generation Asian American parents who are used to the old school way of doing things, by having all decisions deferred to them, which is a stark contrast to the individualistic self-centered go-getting society that American society tends to portray itself as. I'm not sure Benihana gets the family dynamics that are actually at work here.

I whole-heartedly agree with the fact that his daughter is an integral part of what's to become, I think all the relationships (Son to parents, husband to wife, wife to in-laws, child to grandparents, etc.) are woven together in such a way that there is no pinacle to the pyramid, no ONE link that's more important than the rest. The point of a family isn't to have one head above another just for the sake of shits and giggles. There's a history there and growth potential for his daughter that should not be denied.

A bit aggressive in the wording, and in general, makes me sort of weary of the post in general....

[benihana]

I'm not sure Benihana gets the family dynamics that are actually at work here.


I've seen the effects that something like this, has on the family. I've seen how it cripples. It was a dark road for my own family.

[kimpossible]

Assuming his wife is a capable, engaging and personable woman who takes motherhood seriously, there's no reason to suspect that they can't work through this as a family for the benefit to all.

If I can make it through months at a time in Taiwan with crappy Chinese a couple hours visit once a week isn't a death sentence in comparison. You don't separate a man and a grandchild from family because some slight hurt feelings. There's a marked difference between crippling and going slightly outside your comfort zone. As far as I could tell from nicedreams' posts there's a communication problem. Not alienation fueled by hatred.

Sometimes a small thing is given too large a shadow.

[AngryABCGirl]

I second that.

You are a husband. You are married to your wife, not to your mother and father. That is not to say you should disregard your parents and all they stand for.

I don't think it's unreasonable for your parents to speak English to your wife. If they are able to speak English, why wouldn't they speak it around someone who only speaks English? Why would they want to alienate someone like that? If they couldn't speak English, that would be another story.

Are there things they are hiding from your wife? Do they not want to include her in their family?

There is a fine line between respecting your parents and permitting them to ignore your wife.

I would proceed with caution.

You are also setting an example for your daughter. Take care of her mother. That is the most important thing you can do.

Dude why the hostility and the suspicion? The guy is still a son, and the kid still needs grandparents.

I'm not usually mean on this board, but this is probably one of the most illogical things- and this is saying a lot here after the Rise of Islam and East Asia and Nazi Taiwan Thread, I've seen on the board.

[benihana]

Dude why the hostility and the suspicion? The guy is still a son, and the kid still needs grandparents.

I watched my own family deal with this same issue (but to a higher degree.) I watched how my siblings and I became pawns in their game. I don't think my family intended to do that, but I think it's what could happen. We all lived together, so it wasn't the same as dinner visits. My mother would never sit in the same room as my grandparents. My father would force us onto his parents. As children, we just wanted to be with our mother.

This type of situation can get sticky. And sometimes the well being of the child gets overlooked.

[moser]

Sorry if it's posted somewhere else in the thread, but has your wife tried to learn Chinese (assuming she doesn't know it already)? It just sounds like your parents are self-conscious/uncomfortable (like how shy people are considered snotty even though they don't mean to come across like that).

Or maybe try to get your parents to teach the wife and kid Chinese? It'll be good for the wife and kid, and may be a bonding experience.

[Faithless]

Could you have poisoned your family's opinion of your wife?

In my bro's case, he did a good job of putting his umpteenth wife down in conversations with his family. Called her lazy, etc., set a time table for how long he'd be with her.

What's a family to do but take his side, I guess. So, now he blames the family for wanting to see him divorce this woman.

Sad too. They've got a kid together, and no one on my side of the family has really seen the kid in the 18 months or so of her existence.

[juice]

My point isn't that nicedreams should ditch his parents. He needs to stand up to his parents if he sees them treating his wife poorly. On the other hand he also needs to make sure that his wife is doing her part to build a relationship with his parents. He chose to marry his wife, therefore he has to do what is he can to make things work. If his wife feels like an outcast, then the marriage will be very strained.