Japan and Korea has best education

[Chris]

Full Report here. (http://asia.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/asiapcf/east/11/26/education.korea.japan.ap/index.html)

GENEVA, Switzerland (AP) -- South Korea has the most effective education system of the world's richest countries, with Japan in second place and the United States and Germany near the bottom, a United Nations study has said.

The ranking "provides the first 'big picture' comparison of the relative effectiveness of education systems across the developed world," the United Nations Children's Fund study said.

"It is based not on the conventional yardstick of how many students reach what level of education, but on testing what pupils actually know and what they are able to do," UNICEF said.

[ism]

I have no doubt in my mind that culture and parental involvement (the article cites "education begins at home") are the biggest factors. What would be interesting is to see a breakdown of the United States' results by race and by generational status (children of immigrants, basically, vs. everyone else).

Not really sure what the study aims to accomplish, since culture is difficult to change. The parents reading this report that can extrapolate the conclusion that their involvement with their children would improve their education are probably already doing so. Still, it shows the strength of Asian culture and its positive aspects.

[ChinaLama]

wow...Germany near the bottom. How the mighty have fallen. :(

the US...well, I'm so used to the "dumb American" image that it doesn't shock me at all.

and we BEAT Germany. So...

BOOOOOOOOO-YA, KRAUTS! SIE SUCKEN IHREN NUTTEN!

[loserbutt]

but isn't the measure test scores?


and the most significant innovations as of late have come from the US inspite of our lacking educational system

[scott]

Interesting. And people are always railing on the rote-memorization and how poor the Corean educational system is. I agree that a lot of it is cultural. The pressure to get into a good university there is practically do-or-die, or do-or-suicide more like.

[angel nympho]

My dad always told me that the reason why Korean kids in Korea my age seem to have different kinds of education as me is because the roles of high school and college are flipped in Korea. In the states, kids party in high school and study through college (theoretically).... whereas in Korea, kids study their ASSSSSSSES off for high school and things lighten up in college.

[Chris]

Originally posted by ChinaLama@Nov 26 2002, 01:17 PM

BOOOOOOOOO-YA, KRAUTS! SIE SUCKEN IHREN NUTTEN!
Herr Tomate Chinalama: Sie sind so böse !!!

[MellowDrama]

Originally posted by angel nympho@Nov 26 2002, 07:21 PM
My dad always told me that the reason why Korean kids in Korea my age seem to have different kinds of education as me is because the roles of high school and college are flipped in Korea. In the states, kids party in high school and study through college (theoretically).... whereas in Korea, kids study their ASSSSSSSES off for high school and things lighten up in college.
Same thing in Japan, from what my friends have told me.

[Elizabeth A.]

Originally posted by Chris@Nov 26 2002, 01:07 PM
the United States and Germany near the bottom, a United Nations study has said.


Wow. Another developed nation ranked below the U.S.? That almost never happens.

[Grass Monkey]

I dunno. I think it depends on a person's work ethics. I've known people that study in HS, get into college, and slack off, vice-versa.. and even study in HS, and in college. As for the slackers in both, I can't really imagine them getting into college.

Well, the Air Force Academy surely won't let you hang around for more than an hour. :lol:

[applehead]

Originally posted by angel nympho@Nov 26 2002, 05:21 PM
My dad always told me that the reason why Korean kids in Korea my age seem to have different kinds of education as me is because the roles of high school and college are flipped in Korea. In the states, kids party in high school and study through college (theoretically).... whereas in Korea, kids study their ASSSSSSSES off for high school and things lighten up in college.
oh, that is so true.

[angel nympho]

I guess it evens out then? Or is this study talking about BOTH high school and college level... education in general? Hmm... either way, I think I can understand that. Since a lot of kids overseas really get the pressure turned on them early, they probably do better in college, where for them, it doesn't matter so much, just 'cuz they're used to having to do well. It's hard for some kids in the states to do well in college, 'cuz they're so used to blowing shit off in high school. Like me... College sucks.

[AliBabaIncorporated]

Of course we can't discount the value of cultural emphasis on education. But there's two points the study fails to take into consideration. First, If I recall correctly, South Korea's compulsory education only goes up to 9 years. Beyond that, school-attenders are drawn from the portion of the school-age population who do well on tests. So of course, if you look at a random sample of South Korean school-attending 15-year-olds, they're going to do better on tests than in other countries where the compulsory schooling is longer (e.g. basically every other country in the study, which has compulsory education of 10-12 years) - because in S. Korea you're looking only at the top end of the population, whereas everywhere else you're looking at the whole population. A fairer comparison would be to compare the performance of students going beyond compulsory education - e.g. a comparative test of university students.

Not to mention, S. Korea and Japan are non-immigrant-accepting countries. They have no kids in their system who lived in rural areas of foreign countries their whole lives and come in at age 12 unable to speak English or read in any language. That's an obvious advantage compared to the US and, increasingly, to most of Europe. If Japan had a porous land border with a third world country, and had actually honored its commitments under the various agreements on accepting refugees to which it is signatory to the same extent the US has, I'd like to see how well they'd be doing.

[AliBabaIncorporated]

Originally posted by AliBabaIncorporated@Nov 27 2002, 03:57 PM
Of course we can't discount the value of cultural emphasis on education. But there's two points the study fails to take into consideration. First, If I recall correctly, South Korea's compulsory education only goes up to 9 years.
actually, S. Korea's compulsory education is only 6 years. can't seem to edit. no, really, this isn't a cheap way to up my number of posts. :P

[BeTheReds]

I don't know about you, but I can't see how this test proves anything. They probably went to seoul and tokyo to test children there, meanwhile they also went to some small hick town in arkansas to test the USA. I guarentee everyone in my high school would have passed those tests.

[LoneSwordsman]

Originally posted by BeTheReds@Nov 27 2002, 07:19 PM
I don't know about you, but I can't see how this test proves anything.  They probably went to seoul and tokyo to test children there, meanwhile they also went to some small hick town in arkansas to test the USA.  I guarentee everyone in my high school would have passed those tests.
Yes everyone in your school would ace it, but this test is based on the general overall population of the USA, including those that dont even goto school.

and Australia is 5th!
wooohooo!
it ranks in order of South Korea, Japan, Finland, Canada and Australia

It said it based the study on five different tests of 14- and 15-year-olds to determine their abilities in reading, math and science.
Now to those in the USA, u can still brag u got the best Universities :rolleyes:

[BeTheReds]

I remember a similar test survey conducted about english comprehension and writing. North Korea somehow scored higher than Japan even tho they don't mandatorily learn English in North Korea. So it is obvious that some of these tests are flawed.

I'm not trying to say that there are not a lot of stupid people in the USA, bucause the truth is that there are. How else would bush get elected?

But thats another story.

Regardless, I still think their system of testing is flawed.

[AliBabaIncorporated]

Originally posted by BeTheReds@Nov 27 2002, 05:54 PM
I remember a similar test survey conducted about english comprehension and writing. North Korea somehow scored higher than Japan even tho they don't mandatorily learn English in North Korea. So it is obvious that some of these tests are flawed.

I'm not trying to say that there are not a lot of stupid people in the USA, bucause the truth is that there are. How else would bush get elected?

But thats another story.

Regardless, I still think their system of testing is flawed.
well Japan's English standards are incredibly low - on the TOEFL, the only countries which score lower than them are North Korea and Mongolia. (See here (http://www.toefl.org/pubs/resdloadlib.html#summaries) for TOEFL stats). but yeah, these types of international comparisons are easily subject to manipulation and misinterpretation.

[MellowDrama]

A 2000 OECD Study confirms we are backwards in educating our children in basic skills such as literacy and math.



Face it. Education, for most people in this country sucks... big time.

http://www.pisa.oecd.org/knowledge/summary/intro.htm

[BeTheReds]

I don't think we are backwards, because I learned all of those things in *gasp* a predominantly Black public school. Heaven forbid!


The problem is that it has become necessary for both parents to work which means that one can't spend so much time with the kids and encourage them to do well. Some kids are mature enough to do well even with that obstacle. Also many parents don't spend enough time with their children. The school system is not the problem. It is the American family that is.

[Reinhard H.]

I'm not sure if you can say that Japan and Korea do much better than the US, you would have to compare Japanese and Korean American students who go to US schools with their Japanese and Korean counterparts who go to schools in these countries. Since Asian American students often do exceptionally well in US schools the difference between them and their Asian counterparts is probably slight. In addition, the US average is dragged down by the poor performance of many black and hispanic students, even if it's not pc to say so. You have to compare apples with apples and oranges with oranges.

[bwc]

Originally posted by angel nympho@Nov 27 2002, 01:21 AM
In the states, kids party in high school and study through college (theoretically
definately not. Its not even popular opinion either. Take a look at popular teen-cult movies such as American Pie. How do you think the phrase "theres a time and place for everything...and its called college" originated?

Again, referencing AP and its sequel, i think it does a good job of portraying the fact that the majority of kids in america really just play throughout most of high school AND college.

[ChinaLama]

Originally posted by bwc@Nov 27 2002, 07:29 PM
definately not. Its not even popular opinion either. Take a look at popular teen-cult movies such as American Pie. How do you think the phrase "theres a time and place for everything...and its called college" originated?

Again, referencing AP and its sequel, i think it does a good job of portraying the fact that the majority of kids in america really just play throughout most of high school AND college.
and throughout life. :D

alt to be fair, most ppl definitely study harder in college than in hs, cuz you HAVE to study to pass college.

[angel nympho]

Originally posted by bwc@Nov 27 2002, 07:29 PM
definately not. Its not even popular opinion either. Take a look at popular teen-cult movies such as American Pie. How do you think the phrase "theres a time and place for everything...and its called college" originated?

Again, referencing AP and its sequel, i think it does a good job of portraying the fact that the majority of kids in america really just play throughout most of high school AND college.
Theoretically. Meaning shit gets harder in college. People party more in college, not because college is designed for that, but because they're finally out of their parents' houses.