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colorred
11-24-2006, 10:01 PM
As I've seen many threads concerning the origin of many east asian people on various asian forums, I am increasingly keen to delve into the division of east asian ethnicities essentially from scientific viewpoints. I saw many people used the genetics as one source of analyzing each of their ethnicities, but did not cite the article in a proper context in most of the cases (for example, HLA/HLB studies, mtDNA, and ). Currently, the most credited mode of study is Y-chromosome haplogroup, and Y-related sequence analysis. It does seem to be warranted that someone needs to organize the studies based on scientifically feasible criteria suited for the analysis of the lineages of ethnicities. I ca

(1) Date of Publication - Much of recent advances in genetics are later than the year 2000. We have to relax this requirement to the year later than 1998 as there are some good bit of articles in that year.
(2) Mode of Study - Y-haplogroup is known to be non-recombinant.
(3) Researcher - We should include the articles having both westerners, and asians. Especially, all the asians in research population should be represented on fair term.

Below, I will post up the articles that match with these criterias.

Global Y-haplogroup Map

http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p104/kinnchii/W-MAP.gif

Japanese specific Y-haplogroup study

Two Y-chromosome-specific polymorphisms 12f2 and
DFFRY in the Japanese population and their relations
to other Y-polymorphisms, Ashraf A Ewis, Juwon Lee, et al
http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p104/kinnchii/freq.jpg
Table 2. Frequency distribution of the polymorphisms of 12f2 and DFFRY gene among males from different populations
considering their Y chromosome compound haplotypes using three (YAP, 47z/StuI, and SRY) biallelic markers.
Michael F. Hammer テ・Tatiana M. Karafet, Hwayong Park et al
Dual origins of the Japanese: common ground for hunter-gatherer
and farmer Y chromosomes
http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p104/kinnchii/japan1.jpg
Fig. 2 Maximum-parsimonytree of 44 Y chromosomehaplogroups together with their frequencies in Japan and five Asian regions. Samples sizes for each region: Japan 259; northeast Asia (NEA) 441; Southeast Asia (SEA) 683; central Asia (CAS) 419; south Asia (SAS) 496; Oceania (OCE) 209. Major clades (i.e., C窶迭) are labeled with upper case letters to the left of each clade. Mutation names are given along the branches. The length of each branch is not proportional to the number of mutations or the age of the mutation. Dotted lines indicate internal nodes not defined by downstream markers (i.e., paragroups). The names of the 41 haplogroups observed in the present study are shown to the right of the branches. Haplogroup frequencies are shown on the far right, and frequencies of selected Japanese clades are shown within black boxes.
http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p104/kinnchii/japan2.jpg

http://www.geocities.com/londonross1/china3.png
Fig. 2. Frequency distributions of the eight Y-chromosome haplotypes for the 14 global populations, with their approximate geographic locations. The frequencies of the eight haplotypes are shown as colored pie charts (for color codes, see upper left insert). JP Japanese

Only four Japanese populations exhibited ht1 (defined only by YAP+) at various frequencies (also see Table 1). The highest frequency (87.5%) was found in JP-Ainu, followed by JP-Okinawa (55.6%) living in the southwestern islands of Japan, JP-Honshu (36.6%), and JP-Kyushu (27.9%). The ht2 haplotype (defined by YAP+/M15+) was found in only two males, one each from Thais and Thai-Khmers; ht3 (defined by YAP+/SRY4064-A) was completely absent in the Asian populations examined, whereas Jewish in the Uzbekistan and African populations had this haplotype with a frequency of 28.3% and 100%, respectively. Thus, the YAP+ lineage was found in restricted populations among Asian populations, consistent with previous reports (Hammer and Horai 1995; Hammer et al. 1997; Shinka et al. 1999).

The ht4 haplotype (defined only by M9-G) was widely distributed among north, east, and southeast Asian populations, except for the Ainu. This haplotype was frequent (60.5%) in overall Asian populations (Table 1). Among them, the Han Chinese and southeast Asian populations were characterized by high frequencies ranging from 81.0% to 96.0%. In contrast to ht4, ht5 (defined by M9-G/DYS257108-A) and ht6 (defined by M9-G/DYS257108-A/SRY10831-A) were small contributors to Asian populations. The highest frequency of ht5 was observed in Nivkhi (19.0%) and that of the ht6 in Thai-Khmers (10.8%). The ht5 haplotype is widely distributed among European, Asian, and Native American populations and is proposed to be one of the candidates for founder haplotypes in the Americas (Karafet et al. 1999). Furthermore, high frequencies of ht6 were observed in north Europe, central Asia, and India (Karafet et al. 1999). Thus, the presence of ht5 in Nivkhi may account for the founder effect of peopling of the Americas.

The ht7 haplotype (defined by RPS4Y-T) was also widely distributed throughout Asia with the exceptions of Malaysia and the Philippines, whereas this was absent in two non-Asian populations. The highest frequency of ht7 was found in Buryats (83.6%), followed by Nivkhi (38.1%). Thus, the geographic distribution of ht7 in Asia appears to contrast with that of ht4.

Only eight individuals (1.4%) in Asia belonged to ht8, which was the major haplotype in Jewish population (Table 1). The ht8 haplotype may not be useful for inferring population relatedness among Asian populations because it is defined by no mutations. Additional Y-polymorphic markers such as M89 and M168 (Underhill et al. 2000; Ke et al. 2001) will be needed to investigate details of the formation of modern Asian populations.

Korean specific Y-haplogroup study

Y chromosomal DNA variation in east Asian populations and its potential for inferring the peopling of Korea.

Kim W, Shin DJ, Harihara S, Kim YJ.

Department of Biology, Dankook University, Cheonan, Choong-Nam, Republic of Korea. wookkim@ansco.dankook.ac.kr

We have examined variations of five polymorphic loci (DYS287, DXYS5Y, SRY465, DYS19, and DXYS156Y) on the Y chromosome in samples from a total of 1260 males in eight ethnic groups of East Asia. We found four unique haplotypes constructed from three biallelic markers in these samples of East Asians. The Japanese population was characterized by a relatively high frequency of either the haplotype I-2b (-/Y2/T) or II-1 (+/Y1/C). These dual patterns of the distribution of Y chromosomes (I-2b/II-1) were also found in Korea, although they were present at relatively low frequencies. The haplotype II-1 was present in Northeast Asian populations (Chinese, Japanese, Koreans, and Mongolians) only, except for one male from the Thai population among the Southeast Asian populations (Indonesians, Philippines, Thais, and Vietnamese). The Japanese were revealed to have the highest frequency of this haplotype (27.5%), followed by Koreans (2.9%), Mongolians (2.6%), and mainland Chinese (2.2%). In contrast, the frequency of the haplotype I-2b was found to be 17.1% in the Japanese, 9.5% in Indonesian, 6.3% in Korean, 3.8% in Vietnamese, and 2.7% in Thai samples. These findings suggested that the chromosomes of haplotype I-2b were likely derived from certain areas of Northeast Asia, the region closest to Southeast Asia. Phylogenetic analysis using the neighbor-joining tree also reflected a general distinction between Southeast and Northeast Asian populations. The phylogeny revealed a closer genetic relationship between Japanese and Koreans than to the other surveyed Asian populations. Based on the result of the dual patterns of the haplotype distribution, it is more likely that the population structure of Koreans may not have evolved from a single ancient population derived from Northeast Asians, but through dual infusions of Y chromosomes entering Korea from two different waves of East Asians.

PMID: 10721667 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p104/kinnchii/deyap.gif
Fig. 2 Distribution of Y haplogroups in east Asia. Circle area is proportional to sample size, and the nine haplogroups are represented by different colors

The distribution of Y-chromosomal variation surveyed here reveals significant genetic differences among east Asian populations. Haplogroup DE-YAP (the YAP+ allele) was present at high frequency only in the Japanese and was rare in other parts of east Asia (Table 2, Fig. 2). This result is consistent with previous findings of YAP+ chromosomes only in populations from Japan and Tibet in east Asia (Hammer and Horai 1995; Hammer et al. 1997; Kim et al. 2000; Tajima at al. 2002). However, haplogroup DE-YAP is also found at low frequencies in all the other northeast Asian populations sampled here (2.4% overall, excluding the Japanese; 9.6%, including the Japanese), but only in two of the southern populations (0.8% overall), suggesting that the Korean YAP+ chromosomes are unlikely to have been derived from a southeast Asian source. The prevalence of the YAP+ allele in central Asian populations suggests a genetic contribution to the east Asian populations from the northwest, probably from central Asia (Altheide and Hammer 1997; Jin and Su 2000; Karafet et al. 2001).

Haplogroups C-RPS4Y711 and K-M9 were widely but not evenly distributed in the east Asian populations. Haplogroup C-RPS4Y711 appears to be the predominant northeast Asian haplogroup, with high frequencies in Mongolians (Buryats, 37.3%; Khalkhs, 42.9%) and Manchurians (22.7%; Table 2, Fig. 2). The moderate frequency of haplogroup C-RPS4Y711 Y-chromosomes in Korea (15.0%) implies a genetic influence from northern populations of east Asia, starting possibly in east Siberia. Su and Jin (2001) suggest that the RPS4Y711-T chromosome originated in east Asia, probably in the southeast, and then expanded to the north (Siberia), based on the genetic diversity of Y-STR markers. However, the observed low Y-STR diversity of haplogroup C-RPS4Y711 chromosomes in their surveys of Siberian and central Asian populations compared with east Asian populations could also be explained by a more northern (Mongolian and/or Siberian) origin followed by genetic drift resulting from small effective population sizes (Pakendorf et al. 2002). Recently, Cavalli-Sforza and Feldman (2003) have suggested that haplogroup C-RPS4Y711 expanded both through a southern route from Africa (e.g., India) to Oceania, and a northern one to Mongolia, Siberia, and eventually to northwest America. Further genetic surveys are required to test these hypotheses, with additional markers and more samples from diverse regions of Asia.
In contrast, M9-G Y-chromosomes show an opposing distribution to those carrying RPS4Y711-T in east Asia: they are more frequent in southern populations than in northern ones, showing a clinal variation from about 90% to 60% (Table 1). The haplogroups carrying the M9-G mutation and additional sublineages of M9-G in Korea appear to be at an intermediate frequency (81.9%) between southeast and northeast Asian populations. This result implies that the Korean population may be influenced by both the northeast and southeast Asian populations. Even within haplogroup O, the most frequent Korean STR haplotype (23-10-13 with the markers DYS390-DYS391-DYS393, 19% of haplogroup O; Table 3) is the most frequent in the Philippines (27%), whereas the second most frequent Korean haplotype (24-10-12, 16%) is the most frequent in Manchuria (45%). Thus, the distribution of haplogroups K-M9 and C-RPS4Y711 may reflect dispersals from both north and south. The settlement of each region at different times needs to be considered in order to understand the peopling of east Asia. Recently, Karafet et al. (2001) have noted that realistic explanations for the peopling of east Asia have to accommodate more complex multidirectional biological and cultural influences than earlier models have allowed.

http://www.geocities.com/londonross1/depca.gif
Fig. 3 Principal components (PC) analysis of haplogroup frequencies in 11 east Asian populations (circle Koreans, open diamonds southeast populations, closed diamonds northeast populations)


In this study, the Koreans appear to be most closely related overall to the Manchurians among east Asian ethnic groups (Fig. 2), although a principal components analysis of haplogroup frequencies reveals that they also cluster with populations from Yunnan and Vietnam (Fig. 3). The genetic relationship with Manchuria is consistent with the historical evidence that the Ancient Chosun, the first state-level society, was established in the region of southern Manchuria and later moved into the Pyongyang area of the northwestern Korean Peninsula. Based on archeological and anthropological data, the early Korean population possibly had a common origin in the northern regions of the Altai Mountains and Lake Baikal of southeastern Siberia (Han 1995; Choi and Rhee 2001). Recent studies of mtDNA (Kivisild et al. 2002) and the Y-chromosome (Karafet et al. 2001) have also indicated that Koreans possess lineages from both the southern and the northern haplogroup complex. In conclusion, the peopling of Korea can be seen as a complex process with an initial northern Asian settlement followed by several migrations, mostly from southern-to-northern China.

All Asian Groups
PNAS | August 28, 2001 | vol. 98 | no. 18 | 10244-10249
The Eurasian Heartland: A continental perspective on Y-chromosome diversity
R. Spencer Wellsa,b, Nadira Yuldashevaa,c, Ruslan Ruzibakievc, Peter A. Underhilld, Irina Evseevae, Jason Blue-Smithd, Li Jinf, Bing Suf, Ramasamy Pitchappang, Sadagopal Shanmugalakshmig, Karuppiah Balakrishnang, Mark Readh, Nathaniel M. Pearsoni, Tatiana Zerjalj, Matthew T. Websterk, Irakli Zholoshvilil, Elena Jamarjashvilil, Spartak Gambarovm, Behrouz Nikbinn, Ashur Dostievo, Ogonazar Aknazarovp, Pierre Zallouaq, Igor Tsoyr, Mikhail Kitaevs, Mirsaid Mirrakhimovs, Ashir Charievt, and Walter F. Bodmera,u

ABSTRACT
The nonrecombining portion of the human Y chromosome has proven to be a valuable tool for the study of population history. The maintenance of extended haplotypes characteristic of particular geographic regions, despite extensive admixture, allows complex demographic events to be deconstructed. In this study we report the frequencies of 23 Y-chromosome biallelic polymorphism haplotypes in 1,935 men from 49 Eurasian populations, with a particular focus on Central Asia. These haplotypes reveal traces of historical migrations, and provide an insight into the earliest patterns of settlement of anatomically modern humans on the Eurasian continent. Central Asia is revealed to be an important reservoir of genetic diversity, and the source of at least three major waves of migration leading into Europe, the Americas, and India. The genetic results are interpreted in the context of Eurasian linguistic patterns.

http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p104/kinnchii/pq1713050001.jpg
Fig. 1. Geographic distribution of Y-chromosome haplotypes in selected Eurasian populations. Evolutionarily related haplotypes were combined to clarify their display. Colors are those shown in Table 1.

colorred
11-25-2006, 07:50 AM
Since many of us has taken the test of alllooksame.com designed by dyske, who first made this site as a joke, we can perhaps talk about it with something more credible than picking 6 persons out of a billion of each japanese, chinese, and korean population. Science, whether you like it or not, is one way to evaluate alllooksame.com (http://www.alllooksame.com), and its benchmark performance.

I have collected and organized the random materials posted on many related sites, and would like to present them here for your information. Please let us know if, after you read the materials on this thread, you still think ALL LOOK SAME, or otherwise.

I will also put a few genetic materials for your information though these are already posted on other threads. (Please see East Asian ethnicities and genetics (http://forums.yellowworld.org/showthread.php?t=31785).)
[Please compare to alllooksame site]

Genetics

Worldwide Haplogroup Distribution
http://www.geocities.com/littlednaproject/W-MAP.GIF

[Please compare to alllooksame site]
PNAS | August 28, 2001 | vol. 98 | no. 18 | 10244-10249
The Eurasian Heartland: A continental perspective on Y-chromosome diversity
R. Spencer Wellsa,b, Nadira Yuldashevaa,c, Ruslan Ruzibakievc, Peter A. Underhilld, Irina Evseevae, Jason Blue-Smithd, Li Jinf, Bing Suf, Ramasamy Pitchappang, Sadagopal Shanmugalakshmig, Karuppiah Balakrishnang, Mark Readh, Nathaniel M. Pearsoni, Tatiana Zerjalj, Matthew T. Websterk, Irakli Zholoshvilil, Elena Jamarjashvilil, Spartak Gambarovm, Behrouz Nikbinn, Ashur Dostievo, Ogonazar Aknazarovp, Pierre Zallouaq, Igor Tsoyr, Mikhail Kitaevs, Mirsaid Mirrakhimovs, Ashir Charievt, and Walter F. Bodmera,u
ABSTRACT
The nonrecombining portion of the human Y chromosome has proven to be a valuable tool for the study of population history. The maintenance of extended haplotypes characteristic of particular geographic regions, despite extensive admixture, allows complex demographic events to be deconstructed. In this study we report the frequencies of 23 Y-chromosome biallelic polymorphism haplotypes in 1,935 men from 49 Eurasian populations, with a particular focus on Central Asia. These haplotypes reveal traces of historical migrations, and provide an insight into the earliest patterns of settlement of anatomically modern humans on the Eurasian continent. Central Asia is revealed to be an important reservoir of genetic diversity, and the source of at least three major waves of migration leading into Europe, the Americas, and India. The genetic results are interpreted in the context of Eurasian linguistic patterns.
http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p104/kinnchii/pq1713050001.jpg
Fig. 1. Geographic distribution of Y-chromosome haplotypes in selected Eurasian populations. Evolutionarily related haplotypes were combined to clarify their display. Colors are those shown in Table 1.
[Please compare to alllooksame site]

Cranial Morphology
http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/full/171305898v1
Published online before print July 31, 2001, 10.1073/pnas.171305898

Old World sources of the first New World human inhabitants: A comparative craniofacial view
C. Loring Brace*,, A. Russell Nelson*,, Noriko Seguchi*, Hiroaki Oe§, Leslie Sering*, Pan Qifeng¶, Li Yongyi, and Dashtseveg Tumen**
* Museum of Anthropology, University of Michigan, 1109 Geddes Avenue, Ann Arbor, MI 48109; Department of Anthropology, University of Wyoming, Laramie, WY 82071; § Department of Statistics, University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, MI 48109; ¶ Institute of Archaeology, Chinese Academy of Social Sciences, 27 Wangfujing Dajie, Beijing 100710, China; Department of Anatomy, Chengdu College of Traditional Chinese Medicine, 13 Xing Lo Road, Chengdu, Sichuan, People's Republic of China; and ** Department of Anthropology, Mongolian Academy of Sciences, Ulaanbaatar-51, Mongolia
Communicated by Kent V. Flannery, University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, MI, June 18, 2001 (received for review January 2, 2001)

Abstract
Human craniofacial data were used to assess the similarities and differences between recent and prehistoric Old World samples, and between these samples and a similar representation of samples from the New World. The data were analyzed by the neighbor-joining clustering procedure, assisted by bootstrapping and by canonical discriminant analysis score plots. The first entrants to the Western Hemisphere of maybe 15,000 years ago gave rise to the continuing native inhabitants south of the U.S.-Canadian border. These show no close association with any known mainland Asian population. Instead they show ties to the Ainu of Hokkaido and their Jomon predecessors in prehistoric Japan and to the Polynesians of remote Oceania. All of these also have ties to the Pleistocene and recent inhabitants of Europe and may represent an extension from a Late Pleistocene continuum of people across the northern fringe of the Old World. With roots in both the northwest and the northeast, these people can be described as Eurasian. The route of entry to the New World was at the northwestern edge. In contrast, the Inuit (Eskimo), the Aleut, and the Na-Dene speakers who had penetrated as far as the American Southwest within the last 1,000 years show more similarities to the mainland populations of East Asia. Although both the earlier and later arrivals in the New World show a mixture of traits characteristic of the northern edge of Old World occupation and the Chinese core of mainland Asia, the proportion of the latter is greater for the more recent entrants.
http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p104/kinnchii/pq1713058004.gif
Fig. 4. A dendrogram based on the samples used to construct Fig. 3, plus a Bronze Age Mongolian group and four others from the Western Hemisphere. (A) The neighbor-joining method was used on 1,000 bootstrap samplings to generate the pattern displayed. (B) The relationships among the groups are also displayed by canonical discriminant function scores. The first discriminant function accounts for 48% of total variation, and the second accounts for 16%.
http://www-personal.une.edu.au/~pbrown3/brown99.pdf
The first modern East Asians
another look at Upper Cave
101, Liujiang and Minatogawa, Peter Brown, Department of Archaeology and Palaeoanthropology, University of New England
Armidale, NSW 2351, Australia

http://www.geocities.com/londonross1/minatogawa.gif
Lower left is close to the present day han chinese.
MINATOGAWA 1
The Minatogawa 1 male skeleton was found in 1970 at the
Minatogawa limestone quarry on Okinawa (Suzuki and Hanihara 1982).
111
The first modern East Asians?: another look at Upper Cave 101, Liujiang and Minatogawa 1
Three female skeletons, in varying states of preservation, and assorted
other fragments were also recovered. The Minatogawa skeletons have
been described in detail in Suzuki and Hanihara (1982), with Suzuki
(1982) describing the crania. Additional comparative information can
be found in Baba and Nerasaki (1991). The Minatogawa 1 cranium is
not as complete as Liujiang and Upper Cave 101, particularly in the
basi-cranium, facial skeleton and temporal regions. Several of the
dimensions used in the analysis to follow had to be estimated.
Unlike Liujiang and Upper Cave there does not appear to have
been any concern over the reliability of the dating of Minatogawa.
Radiocarbon dates of 18,250 ±650 to 16,600 ±300 years BP were obtained
from charcoal inside the fissure (Kobayashi et al. 1974). Fluorine content
of human and non-human bones within the site suggested that they
were contemporaneous (Matsu’ura 1982). Assuming that the site was
well stratified, that the carbon dates do bracket the skeletons and that
the skeletons were not intrusive, then Minatogawa remains do have a
strong claim to being the earliest modern human skeletons in East Asia.
http://www.geocities.com/londonross1/minatogawaPC.gif
Overall, the scatter plot of Functions 1 and 2 indicate the relative morphological
similarity of the modern and Neolithic Chinese groups, while the
modern Japanese are closer to a wider range of East Asian and Native
American populations. Plots of the total group dispersions associated
with Figure 3 revealed the large degree of overlap between the Neolithic
and modern Chinese and between the modern Japanese, Anyang,
Hainan and Native American groups. The Eskimo and Ainu were more
distinct, as were both of the Australian Aboriginal groups.

Please note that northern and southern japanese are in the middle point between N/S chinese and ainu/jomon/minatogawa. This represents the japanese population
divided into the two completely diverged skull/facial structures.
[Please compare to alllooksame site]
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c232/londonross/facetype2.gif
The results show the average faces of east asian (and some other related)populations.
Please note the ainu/jomon (native japanese islanders) has a significant difference with han chinese population.
http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p104/kinnchii/5_08_01.gif
Contrast between Jomon and Yayoi japanese faces.
[Please compare to alllooksame site]

colorred
11-25-2006, 07:52 AM
Please compare to ALLLOOKSAME.com

Average (not necessarily typical) Korean face
http://english.chosun.com/media/photo/news/200508/200508160008_01.jpg
http://www.andongkim.com/articles/20...koreanface.htm
Korean scientists allegedly produced what they call, "the average Korean face". The Korean Institute of Science and Technology information (KISTI) working together with the Catholic Institute for Applied Anatomy made computer tomographic scans of Koreans last year and with the aid of a supercomputer produced a "digital Korean" -- a 3-D video of the average Korean's physical structure.
[Please compare to alllooksame site by dyske]
Average (not necessarily typical) CHINESE face
http://www.angle.org/anglonline/?req...e=05&page=0393
Perception of Facial Esthetics by Native Chinese Participants by Using Manipulated Digital Imagery Techniques
Sample population
The Chinese rater group consisted of 85 native Chinese participants from Beijing. Of these raters, 38 were women, and 47 were men (45% women and 55% men). Their mean age was 26.3 ± 5.3 years.
Manipulated digital imagery technique
An adult native Chinese male and female stimulus face (A) was selected for digital distortion (Figures 1 and 2 ). Both subjects were 24 years old and were chosen because they exhibited Class I occlusions with average dental proclination and balanced lower facial skeletal proportions previously established as norms for this population. They were meant to be representative of the average facial profile for this ethnic group. Because the Chinese have a shorter than average anterior cranial base and a dental proclination greater than Caucasian norms, their “normal” profile would be classified, by Caucasian standards, as bimaxillary protrusive.29,30 This profile was selected as representative of the “normal” Chinese participant.
http://www.angle.org/archive/0003-3219/070/05/figure/i0003-3219-070-05-0393-f01t.gif
FIGURE 1. The “normal” Chinese male stimulus face (A) with a balance of dental and skeletal proportions
http://www.angle.org/archive/0003-3219/070/05/figure/i0003-3219-070-05-0393-f02t.gif
FIGURE 2. The “normal” Chinese female stimulus face (A) with a balance of dental and skeletal proportions
[Please compare to alllooksame site by dyske]

BeTheReds
11-25-2006, 08:01 AM
Wow, that's really boring.

colorred
11-25-2006, 08:02 AM
I came through previous threads on alllooksame.com on different asian forums. I cited the guy said something motivating the discussions on this topic. I chose them because their descriptions are rather balanced and give a clear explanation for their observations.


I insist that it's very possible to tell the difference between East Asians, for I have been several times to Korea and live in Japan. I flew quite a few times in planes composed half of Japanese and half of Korean and even flight attendant can usually tell the difference when they address someone (they have to know whether to speak in Korean or Japanese and rarely mistake). It is absolutely normal that Japanese can't tell the difference since most of them have never really thought about it or haven't been to Korea or China.

I did a little test, no later than last week in Incheon Airport (Seoul) trying to guess who was Japanese and who was Korean at the gate before boarding. I decided then approached to check what language they spoke. I got about 80% right. The hint is not in the clothes but in facial features, deeper and a bit more "Western" for Japanese, and rounder, flatter faces for Koreans. culture to recognise this. Koreans have squarer jaws too.

Some Chinese have darker or more "yellow" skin. They surely have squarer and harsher features than Japanese. This is certainly due to the life style and this difference is likely to disappear with time as Chinese will get richer and live more like Japanese. That is why, it's much more difficult to tell who's who if they live in the same country (Japan, US, etc). It's near impossible to tell a Korean or Chinese born and raised in Japan, because I believe the mentality (language) and lifestyle play the most important role in facial expression.The eyes and smiles are a bit different too. You need to know a bit of both

The last point on physical transformation by culture is weak, but I share much perceptions with him.

There is a good description posted on the origin of japanese people thread. I would like to cite it here to represent one view held by non-east asian.


I'm a white American guy, and even I can tell Japanese people apart from other Asians. To put it bluntly, most Japanese persons look like the hybrid offspring of a pair consisting of an East Asian and a southern European (Greek or Jew?). That's not to say that the Japanese are closely related to any extant European population; in fact, I am almost certain that they are very distant from each other in terms of line of descent. The fact remains, however, that morphologically at least, Japanese people have a relatively high incidence of certain physical traits that are extremely rare among other East Asian populations. I think this is likely to be due to "shared retention" by the ancestors of the Europeans and the Japanese aborigines of a certain suite of physical traits that was typical of the original Eurasians, while the ancestors of continental East Asians underwent several severe changes to their skeletal (and especially facial) morphology during their most recent stage of evolution. This scenario seems to be supported by the fact that ancient skeletons of modern humans found anywhere in Eurasia, and even the oldest human skeletons found in the Americas, all appear to possess rather Caucasoid morphology, and skeletons that exhibit the prototypical features of the Mongoloid race appear only later in the archaeological record.
I rarely have any difficulty distinguishing Japanese from Chinese or Koreans, but the continentals can be a troublesome bunch.

The unusual features of the Japanese that set them apart clearly in most cases from any of the continental East Asians are:

1) Japanese tend to have a more pronounced facial topography (i.e., a rather "bumpy" or "projecting" look to the face, such as around the eyebrows, rather than the smooth and flat contours of Chinese or Koreans)

2) Japanese tend to have a more perceptually salient nose. This can be either more salient in simply the degree of projection from the surface of the face, or more salient in terms of the total volume of the nose (i.e., including the width). In general, Japanese seem to exhibit a much greater variety of nose sizes and shapes than do continental East Asians, and I have met many Japanese who even have "bumpy" noses with several bulges and constrictions in the contour of the nose, as I have otherwise only observed in Europeans. Chinese and Koreans appear to have only smooth-contoured noses, regardless of whether they are flat and broad (as is common in southern Chinese, Vietnamese, etc.) or narrow and slightly projecting. This feature is particularly relevant for distinguishing Japanese men from Chinese or Korean men, because women of every nationality tend to be rather paedomorphic when it comes to their noses.

3) Japanese people tend to have a diminutive lower facial region. They often have small jaws, which may be the direct cause of their propensity for having poor alignment of the teeth. Continental East Asians, on the other hand, seem to have huge jaws, flaring malars (cheekbones), and a generally large and imposing lower face when viewed from a Caucasian perspective.

4) Japanese people often have rather translucent skin, similar to that of Europeans, when they are not tanned. Therefore, Japanese people often have rosy cheeks and a generally healthy-looking complexion. When they do tan, they tend to take on a reddish-brown color. The Chinese and Koreans, on the other hand, are almost all cream- or beige-colored ("pasty") from the start, and they have completely opaque skin, so that it is impossible for them to have rosy cheeks and they always look sort of sickly unless they are tanned, in which case they take on a yellow-brown color.
As for distinguishing Chinese and Koreans by sight, I think it is quite difficult, but not impossible. They both have a propensity for big faces with a smoothly rounded outline, but Koreans tend to be more extreme in the width of their faces, so that they often have a nearly circular look, whereas Chinese tend to have more elliptical faces when viewed directly from the front. Chinese also more frequently have double eyelids and larger eyes that seem to bulge out of their (flat) sockets. Korean people tend to have very small eyes and no eyelid creases. Among East Asians, Chinese people also have a peculiar tendency towards prognathism, so that they often have bulging mouths that look somewhat reminiscent of black Africans. The big, bulgy eyes and mouth that appear so frequently among Chinese people seem to me to suggest some sort of affinity with populations of Southeast Asia. Also, I'm not totally sure about this, but I have a hunch that Koreans more frequently have a sort of oily shine to their skin, whereas Chinese people's skin tends to be more dull and dry-looking.

colorred
11-25-2006, 08:06 AM
Courtesy of National Science Museum at Ueno/Shinjuku
http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p104/kinnchii/5_17_03.jpg
Predicted distribution of Ainu/Jomon Japanese. The red stands for the Ainu ethnicity in modern japanese in molecular levels, and the yellow indicates the yayoi japanese.

Figures above shows the statistical distribution of jomon and yayoi people. High density of jomon dna markers is found in northern and southern japan including shikoku. This geographical trend in ethnic density is supported by recent genetics studies.

Below, we will give some examples of people in north/south japan, who are thought to be similar to jomon people. Samples are taken from 19th century noble people whose ancestry went back to 20th-50th generations to north and south japan.

Northern Japanese
Mutsu Munemitsu, A minister of Foreign Affair
http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p104/kinnchii/mutu.jpg

The same person
http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p104/kinnchii/Munemitsu_Mutsu_2.jpg
Wife of Mutsu Munemitsu
http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p104/kinnchii/ryouko.jpg
Eastern Japanese
Katsu Kaishu, Admiral of the Shogun's fleet
http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p104/kinnchii/kanrin8.jpg
http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p104/kinnchii/Kaishu_Katsu_2.jpg
PLEASE COMAPRE TO ALLLOOKSAME.com site by Dyske.

Southern Japanese
Togo Heihachiro, An admiral, A national hero in Japan-Russo War (no involvement in WWII)
http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p104/kinnchii/Togo_in_Europe.jpg
Southernmost Japanese. His ancestor was a neighbor of koizumi's.
Togo Heihachiro in his 58 years old
http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p104/kinnchii/ADMIRALTOGO.jpg
Okubo Toshimichi, Revolutionary, A founder of Meiji Government
Born in Kagoshima, Southernmost Japan
http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p104/kinnchii/0005_r.jpg

His background is middle-ranking samurai, and his phenotype
seems to be from the relation to Ryukyuan, native islanders.
The same person
http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p104/kinnchii/2896138988.jpg

colorred
11-25-2006, 08:09 AM
Komura Jutaro, Minister of Foreign Affair, Harvard Graduate
http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p104/kinnchii/yomimono03_01.jpg
Akiyama Saneyuki, Hero in Japan-Russo War, Vice-Admiral, died in 1918
http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p104/kinnchii/Akiyama_Saneyuki.jpg
Akiyama Yoshifuru, General, The founder of Japanese Cavalry
http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p104/kinnchii/akiyamak.jpg
Last two people are southern-central (shikoku) japanese. I posted this because their phenotype is somewhere between japanese (jomon) and korean (yayoi), mixed. Very interesting.
The first pic of komura can be representative of any japanese, but his background seems to be jomon.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d7/AinuGroup.JPG

Group of Ainu people, 1904 photograph, taken in Hokkaido Japan
From Wikipedia "Ainu People"
Due to intermarriage with the Japanese and ongoing absorption into the predominant culture, few living Ainu settlements exist. Many "authentic Ainu villages" advertised in Hokkaido are simply tourist attractions.
If you search the Ainu people over the Web, you will most likely see the fake Ainu people's picture.
[Please compare to alllooksame site]

lethal
11-25-2006, 01:21 PM
A tough read, but really interesting from an anthropological standpoint if you can get through and understand it all.

SunWuKong
11-25-2006, 08:02 PM
A tough read, but really interesting from an anthropological standpoint if you can get through and understand it all.

you read the whole thing? i just looked at the graphs.

BeTheReds
11-25-2006, 10:38 PM
Copy paste! Way to go!

kyopojin
11-25-2006, 11:27 PM
Apparently,this new poster here have already ventured many other Asian-forums with SAME CRAP.He's very dedicated fella,will come flood this thread with photos of Japanese nobility and Ainu in making his arguments Japanese are NOT related to Chinese race blah blah blah.

By the way,Vietnamese are NOT in the East Asian group.

kyopojin
11-25-2006, 11:42 PM
Huh .... What do you do for a living,you're glue to Asian-forums with some sort of agenda ?

You've been tireless in flooding these same titled threads with incon clusive DNA mappings and questionable copy/paste links.

MOD NOTE: IF YOU HAVE A PERSONAL PROBLEM, TAKE IT TO PERSONAL MESSAGE. SIMPLE CONCEPT, EH?

kyopojin
11-26-2006, 12:01 AM
I would like see similiar ALL LOOK SAME thread for European peoples,also one thread dedicates to European GENETICS and Jews plus Arabs ( these are Semite people ).

colorred
11-26-2006, 05:34 AM
Am J Phys Anthropol. 1989 Jan;78(1):93-113.
Reflections on the face of Japan: a multivariate craniofacial and odontometric perspective.Brace CL, Brace ML, Leonard WR.
Museum of Anthropology, University of Michigan, Ann Arbor 48109.
Craniofacial variables for modern and prehistoric Japanese were subjected to multivariate analysis to test the relationships of the people of Japan with mainland Asian and Oceanic samples. The modern Japanese are tied to Koreans, Chinese, Southeast Asians, and the Yayoi rice agriculturalists who entered Japan in 300 B.C. Together they make up a Mainland-Asia cluster of related populations. The prehistoric Jomon foragers, the original inhabitants of the Japanese archipelago, are the direct ancestors of the modern Ainu, who made a recognizable contribution to the warrior class--the Samurai--of feudal Japan. Together, they are associated with Polynesians and Micronesians in a Jomon-Pacific cluster of related populations. Jomon-to-Ainu tooth size reduction proceeded at the same rate as that observable in the post-Pleistocene elsewhere in the Old World.
http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p104/kinnchii/9fb8606b-1.jpg
http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p104/kinnchii/9fb8606b.jpg
http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p104/kinnchii/6a23b6f0.jpg
http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p104/kinnchii/9fb8606b-4.jpg
http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p104/kinnchii/9fb8606b-2.jpg

colorred
11-26-2006, 05:36 AM
A great thread I found on other forums.
A while ago an article, "The Samurai And The Ainu", was published in Scientific Frontiers. Unfortunatly, it only saw brief discussion on the e-budo forums. (http://www.e-budo.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-15268.html)
It is my opinion that this matter is worth a closer look. Below, I have taken the liberty to provide links to information concerning the matter.
The first reference of the matter was found on Science Frontiers Online. The article can be found here. (http://www.science-frontiers.com/index.htm)
The SF article, The Samurai And The Ainu , was based on a story published in the New York Times. The story, Exalted Warriors, Humble Roots , written by John Noble Wilford was first published in the June 6th 1989 New York Times. This story can be found here. (http://knifelogic.com/NYT-EWHR%20JN%20Wilford.pdf) (Wilford, John Noble; "Exalted Warriors, Humble Roots," New York Times, June 6, 1989. Cr. J. Covey.)
Wilford's story was based on the findings of C. Loring Brace published in the American Journal of Physical Science. Brace's article, Reflections on the face of Japan: a multivariate craniofacial and odontometric perspective., can be found here. (http://knifelogic.com/AJPA_78-1CLBrace_SM.pdf)
(AJPA. 1989 Jan;78(1):93-113.)
World renown anthropologist, CL Brace, recieved his Ph.D from Harvard University in 1962. Loring Brace is currently a Professor of Anthropology at the Department of Anthropology and Curator of Biological Anthropology at the Museum of Anthropology. More. (http://www.lsa.umich.edu/anthro/faculty_staff/brace.html)
It is important to consider the implications the Japanese-Ainu relationship over last 2,000 years; the Ainu people of Japan have been subjected to genocide, racism, degradation, and abuse (Kodama 1970). Is it possible that historical records have been skewed over the matter of Japanese nationalism? More information on the Ainu-Japanese relationship can be found here:
1. A Look at the Impact of Modern Legislation on the Ainu Culture of Japan (http://www.teamatlantis.com/yucatan_test/research_ainu_culture.html)
2. UN Calls for Anti-Racism Legislation in Japan (http://www.jca.apc.org/web-news/corpwatch-jp/143.html)
3. Ainu rights law's effects perceived as superficial (http://www.jca.apc.org/web-news/corpwatch-jp/16.html)
Please compare to alllooksame web site.

rice cracker
11-26-2006, 11:51 AM
This is a duplicate of another thread. Please do not post duplicate threads or respond to duplicate threads.

Closing.

colorred
11-26-2006, 12:37 PM
I post the non-duplicated materials from other threads here, since much of them are really integral part of this topics.

As I've seen many threads concerning the origin of many east asian people on various asian forums, I am increasingly keen to delve into the division of east asian ethnicities essentially from scientific viewpoints. I saw many people used the genetics as one source of analyzing each of their ethnicities, but did not cite the article in a proper context in most of the cases (for example, HLA/HLB studies, mtDNA, and ). Currently, the most credited mode of study is Y-chromosome haplogroup, and Y-related sequence analysis. It does seem to be warranted that someone needs to organize the studies based on scientifically feasible criteria suited for the analysis of the lineages of ethnicities. I ca

(1) Date of Publication - Much of recent advances in genetics are later than the year 2000. We have to relax this requirement to the year later than 1998 as there are some good bit of articles in that year.
(2) Mode of Study - Y-haplogroup is known to be most useful mode of study on lineages.
(3) Researcher - We should include the articles having both westerners, and asians. Especially, all the asians in research population should be represented on fair term.

Below, I will post up the articles that match with these criterias.

Japanese specific Y-haplogroup study
Two Y-chromosome-specific polymorphisms 12f2 and
DFFRY in the Japanese population and their relations
to other Y-polymorphisms, Ashraf A Ewis, Juwon Lee, et al
http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p104/kinnchii/freq.jpg
Table 2. Frequency distribution of the polymorphisms of 12f2 and DFFRY gene among males from different populations
considering their Y chromosome compound haplotypes using three (YAP, 47z/StuI, and SRY) biallelic markers.
Michael F. Hammer テ・Tatiana M. Karafet, Hwayong Park et al
Dual origins of the Japanese: common ground for hunter-gatherer
and farmer Y chromosomes
http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p104/kinnchii/japan1.jpg
Fig. 2 Maximum-parsimonytree of 44 Y chromosomehaplogroups together with their frequencies in Japan and five Asian regions. Samples sizes for each region: Japan 259; northeast Asia (NEA) 441; Southeast Asia (SEA) 683; central Asia (CAS) 419; south Asia (SAS) 496; Oceania (OCE) 209. Major clades (i.e., C窶迭) are labeled with upper case letters to the left of each clade. Mutation names are given along the branches. The length of each branch is not proportional to the number of mutations or the age of the mutation. Dotted lines indicate internal nodes not defined by downstream markers (i.e., paragroups). The names of the 41 haplogroups observed in the present study are shown to the right of the branches. Haplogroup frequencies are shown on the far right, and frequencies of selected Japanese clades are shown within black boxes.
http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p104/kinnchii/japan2.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/londonross1/china3.png
Fig. 2. Frequency distributions of the eight Y-chromosome haplotypes for the 14 global populations, with their approximate geographic locations. The frequencies of the eight haplotypes are shown as colored pie charts (for color codes, see upper left insert). JP Japanese
Only four Japanese populations exhibited ht1 (defined only by YAP+) at various frequencies (also see Table 1). The highest frequency (87.5%) was found in JP-Ainu, followed by JP-Okinawa (55.6%) living in the southwestern islands of Japan, JP-Honshu (36.6%), and JP-Kyushu (27.9%). The ht2 haplotype (defined by YAP+/M15+) was found in only two males, one each from Thais and Thai-Khmers; ht3 (defined by YAP+/SRY4064-A) was completely absent in the Asian populations examined, whereas Jewish in the Uzbekistan and African populations had this haplotype with a frequency of 28.3% and 100%, respectively. Thus, the YAP+ lineage was found in restricted populations among Asian populations, consistent with previous reports (Hammer and Horai 1995; Hammer et al. 1997; Shinka et al. 1999).
The ht4 haplotype (defined only by M9-G) was widely distributed among north, east, and southeast Asian populations, except for the Ainu. This haplotype was frequent (60.5%) in overall Asian populations (Table 1). Among them, the Han Chinese and southeast Asian populations were characterized by high frequencies ranging from 81.0% to 96.0%. In contrast to ht4, ht5 (defined by M9-G/DYS257108-A) and ht6 (defined by M9-G/DYS257108-A/SRY10831-A) were small contributors to Asian populations. The highest frequency of ht5 was observed in Nivkhi (19.0%) and that of the ht6 in Thai-Khmers (10.8%). The ht5 haplotype is widely distributed among European, Asian, and Native American populations and is proposed to be one of the candidates for founder haplotypes in the Americas (Karafet et al. 1999). Furthermore, high frequencies of ht6 were observed in north Europe, central Asia, and India (Karafet et al. 1999). Thus, the presence of ht5 in Nivkhi may account for the founder effect of peopling of the Americas.
The ht7 haplotype (defined by RPS4Y-T) was also widely distributed throughout Asia with the exceptions of Malaysia and the Philippines, whereas this was absent in two non-Asian populations. The highest frequency of ht7 was found in Buryats (83.6%), followed by Nivkhi (38.1%). Thus, the geographic distribution of ht7 in Asia appears to contrast with that of ht4.
Only eight individuals (1.4%) in Asia belonged to ht8, which was the major haplotype in Jewish population (Table 1). The ht8 haplotype may not be useful for inferring population relatedness among Asian populations because it is defined by no mutations. Additional Y-polymorphic markers such as M89 and M168 (Underhill et al. 2000; Ke et al. 2001) will be needed to investigate details of the formation of modern Asian populations.
Korean specific Y-haplogroup study
Y chromosomal DNA variation in east Asian populations and its potential for inferring the peopling of Korea.
Kim W, Shin DJ, Harihara S, Kim YJ.
Department of Biology, Dankook University, Cheonan, Choong-Nam, Republic of Korea. wookkim@ansco.dankook.ac.kr
We have examined variations of five polymorphic loci (DYS287, DXYS5Y, SRY465, DYS19, and DXYS156Y) on the Y chromosome in samples from a total of 1260 males in eight ethnic groups of East Asia. We found four unique haplotypes constructed from three biallelic markers in these samples of East Asians. The Japanese population was characterized by a relatively high frequency of either the haplotype I-2b (-/Y2/T) or II-1 (+/Y1/C). These dual patterns of the distribution of Y chromosomes (I-2b/II-1) were also found in Korea, although they were present at relatively low frequencies. The haplotype II-1 was present in Northeast Asian populations (Chinese, Japanese, Koreans, and Mongolians) only, except for one male from the Thai population among the Southeast Asian populations (Indonesians, Philippines, Thais, and Vietnamese). The Japanese were revealed to have the highest frequency of this haplotype (27.5%), followed by Koreans (2.9%), Mongolians (2.6%), and mainland Chinese (2.2%). In contrast, the frequency of the haplotype I-2b was found to be 17.1% in the Japanese, 9.5% in Indonesian, 6.3% in Korean, 3.8% in Vietnamese, and 2.7% in Thai samples. These findings suggested that the chromosomes of haplotype I-2b were likely derived from certain areas of Northeast Asia, the region closest to Southeast Asia. Phylogenetic analysis using the neighbor-joining tree also reflected a general distinction between Southeast and Northeast Asian populations. The phylogeny revealed a closer genetic relationship between Japanese and Koreans than to the other surveyed Asian populations. Based on the result of the dual patterns of the haplotype distribution, it is more likely that the population structure of Koreans may not have evolved from a single ancient population derived from Northeast Asians, but through dual infusions of Y chromosomes entering Korea from two different waves of East Asians.
PMID: 10721667 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p104/kinnchii/deyap.gif
Fig. 2 Distribution of Y haplogroups in east Asia. Circle area is proportional to sample size, and the nine haplogroups are represented by different colors
The distribution of Y-chromosomal variation surveyed here reveals significant genetic differences among east Asian populations. Haplogroup DE-YAP (the YAP+ allele) was present at high frequency only in the Japanese and was rare in other parts of east Asia (Table 2, Fig. 2). This result is consistent with previous findings of YAP+ chromosomes only in populations from Japan and Tibet in east Asia (Hammer and Horai 1995; Hammer et al. 1997; Kim et al. 2000; Tajima at al. 2002). However, haplogroup DE-YAP is also found at low frequencies in all the other northeast Asian populations sampled here (2.4% overall, excluding the Japanese; 9.6%, including the Japanese), but only in two of the southern populations (0.8% overall), suggesting that the Korean YAP+ chromosomes are unlikely to have been derived from a southeast Asian source. The prevalence of the YAP+ allele in central Asian populations suggests a genetic contribution to the east Asian populations from the northwest, probably from central Asia (Altheide and Hammer 1997; Jin and Su 2000; Karafet et al. 2001).
Haplogroups C-RPS4Y711 and K-M9 were widely but not evenly distributed in the east Asian populations. Haplogroup C-RPS4Y711 appears to be the predominant northeast Asian haplogroup, with high frequencies in Mongolians (Buryats, 37.3%; Khalkhs, 42.9%) and Manchurians (22.7%; Table 2, Fig. 2). The moderate frequency of haplogroup C-RPS4Y711 Y-chromosomes in Korea (15.0%) implies a genetic influence from northern populations of east Asia, starting possibly in east Siberia. Su and Jin (2001) suggest that the RPS4Y711-T chromosome originated in east Asia, probably in the southeast, and then expanded to the north (Siberia), based on the genetic diversity of Y-STR markers. However, the observed low Y-STR diversity of haplogroup C-RPS4Y711 chromosomes in their surveys of Siberian and central Asian populations compared with east Asian populations could also be explained by a more northern (Mongolian and/or Siberian) origin followed by genetic drift resulting from small effective population sizes (Pakendorf et al. 2002). Recently, Cavalli-Sforza and Feldman (2003) have suggested that haplogroup C-RPS4Y711 expanded both through a southern route from Africa (e.g., India) to Oceania, and a northern one to Mongolia, Siberia, and eventually to northwest America. Further genetic surveys are required to test these hypotheses, with additional markers and more samples from diverse regions of Asia.
In contrast, M9-G Y-chromosomes show an opposing distribution to those carrying RPS4Y711-T in east Asia: they are more frequent in southern populations than in northern ones, showing a clinal variation from about 90% to 60% (Table 1). The haplogroups carrying the M9-G mutation and additional sublineages of M9-G in Korea appear to be at an intermediate frequency (81.9%) between southeast and northeast Asian populations. This result implies that the Korean population may be influenced by both the northeast and southeast Asian populations. Even within haplogroup O, the most frequent Korean STR haplotype (23-10-13 with the markers DYS390-DYS391-DYS393, 19% of haplogroup O; Table 3) is the most frequent in the Philippines (27%), whereas the second most frequent Korean haplotype (24-10-12, 16%) is the most frequent in Manchuria (45%). Thus, the distribution of haplogroups K-M9 and C-RPS4Y711 may reflect dispersals from both north and south. The settlement of each region at different times needs to be considered in order to understand the peopling of east Asia. Recently, Karafet et al. (2001) have noted that realistic explanations for the peopling of east Asia have to accommodate more complex multidirectional biological and cultural influences than earlier models have allowed.
http://www.geocities.com/londonross1/depca.gif
Fig. 3 Principal components (PC) analysis of haplogroup frequencies in 11 east Asian populations (circle Koreans, open diamonds southeast populations, closed diamonds northeast populations)

In this study, the Koreans appear to be most closely related overall to the Manchurians among east Asian ethnic groups (Fig. 2), although a principal components analysis of haplogroup frequencies reveals that they also cluster with populations from Yunnan and Vietnam (Fig. 3). The genetic relationship with Manchuria is consistent with the historical evidence that the Ancient Chosun, the first state-level society, was established in the region of southern Manchuria and later moved into the Pyongyang area of the northwestern Korean Peninsula. Based on archeological and anthropological data, the early Korean population possibly had a common origin in the northern regions of the Altai Mountains and Lake Baikal of southeastern Siberia (Han 1995; Choi and Rhee 2001). Recent studies of mtDNA (Kivisild et al. 2002) and the Y-chromosome (Karafet et al. 2001) have also indicated that Koreans possess lineages from both the southern and the northern haplogroup complex. In conclusion, the peopling of Korea can be seen as a complex process with an initial northern Asian settlement followed by several migrations, mostly from southern-to-northern China.

lethal
11-26-2006, 01:18 PM
This is a duplicate of another thread. Please do not post duplicate threads or respond to duplicate threads.

Closing.

I merged them. With the density of the thread, I don't expect many more replies.

Napoleon Chynamite
11-26-2006, 02:31 PM
Yea I've seen the initial posts on like a lotta other forums...never really took the time to read through all that jargon tho.

Besides those selective pictures of Japanese nobility that you posted, most Japanese people I've seen look like Koreans and Chinese (especially Korean) and if they grew up here I'd have a hard time telling the difference. I'm sorry, you aznz all still look the same to me.

n3bulous
11-27-2006, 10:16 PM
anybody have a cliff notes summary? also, is there some specific intent to all that data, or is it just presented for general info? i'm into anthropology, genetics, etc., but damn, i'd have to be real bored and real caffeinated to get through all that.

kyopojin
11-27-2006, 11:28 PM
Food for thought,don't waste the pretty.

We're ALL genetically related regardless of races or ethncities,our ancestors originated in Africa.