Which language should I take?

[Elizabeth A.]

I'm going to take a foreign language next semester. I wanted to take Japanese - that's filled up. Chinese is too. So now I'm deciding between French or German. Which one should I take?

[luv]

I definitely recommend Chinese, but I took four years of French in highschool -- don't remember a damn thing, but turns out French is at least useful at restaurants. I'm not too into German food. Hope that helps.

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by luv@Nov 25 2002, 10:48 PM
I definitely recommend Chinese, but I took four years of French in highschool -- don't remember a damn thing, but turns out French is at least useful at restaurants. I'm not too into German food. Hope that helps.
she said chinese is full.

well german would probably be easier because english is a germanic language so they're more similar than french. but french is more widely spoken than german.

[ChinaLama]

German, because I think so much of modern Western civilization comes from German thought (Luther, Kant, Marx, Nietzsche, Einstein, Kafka, etc) that understanding German well would let you have the best bang for the buck in helping to understand the civilization we live in.

(i took German in hs btw and i think French is kinda snooty, so i'm naturally prejudiced against it :))

[luv]

Originally posted by SunWuKung@Nov 26 2002, 03:55 AM
she said chinese is full.

well german would probably be easier because english is a germanic language so they're more similar than french. but french is more widely spoken than german.
I know, I meant in this order:

I would sit-in to Chinese and beg prof to take me.

If not, then French, cuz its more useful.

But I don't know much about German.

[iris]

Never thought of German that way ChinaLama. Now I'm biased. Philosophy stomped all over my ass in college. Take French.

(I took French... :lol: ... and my cousins are all French so I gotta support my family.)

[luv]

I reread my earlier post. God I sound drunk. Stayed up too late...should sleep now.

[TyroneK(prettypretty)]

French is the language of Baudelaire, Rimbaud and Voltaire. It's beautiful. I'd take it for the reading material alone. I guess this depends on what level you'd be taking.

If that's not enough, think of all the underdeveloped African countries and island paradises you'd be able to navigate through due to the legacy of French imperialism. Plus, I hear they still have some French speakers in Vietnam...

The grammar's rough, but the words are shorter too. Just think of that Rainier Wolfcastle commercial for bologna.

[Elizabeth A.]

Originally posted by VBKao@Nov 25 2002, 08:04 PM
Just think of that Rainier Wolfcastle commercial for bologna.
Ah, yes!

"Mein bratwurst has a first name, it's FRITZ. Mein bratwurst has a second name, it's
S-C-H-N-A-C-K-E-N-P-F-E-F- F-E-R-H-A-U-S-E-N... "

[ChinaLama]

Originally posted by VBKao@Nov 26 2002, 04:04 AM
French is the language of Baudelaire, Rimbaud and Voltaire. It's beautiful. I'd take it for the reading material alone. I guess this depends on what level you'd be taking.

If that's not enough, think of all the underdeveloped African countries and island paradises you'd be able to navigate through due to the legacy of French imperialism. Plus, I hear they still have some French speakers in Vietnam...

The grammar's rough, but the words are shorter too. Just think of that Rainier Wolfcastle commercial for bologna.
my personal, somewhat underinformed opinion is that between Descartes and Rousseau was just a long line of intellectual lightweights in France. that's why they called themselves "philosophes" and sat around drinking tea w/ dimwit aristocrats. I think the Germans and the Scots/English (Locke, Hume, Adam Smith) pwned the French intellectually.

And after Kant burst on the scene, the intellectual scene has been decidedly in the favor of the Germans, although I think in the 20th Century and late 19th century, the French have made a comeback.


On the other hand, I guess French IS more pleasant sounding than German, but maybe cuz we've been so francocized in our younger days w/ how ppl hAMMER into us how beautiful French is, while when we think German, we think either 1) nazis or 2) really boring philosophers.

But I suppose in a literary sense, maybe it'd be better to learn French than German. Other than Kafka and Goethe, I can't think of any major German-language writers that rivals say Hugo or Dumas.

Then again, I don't know. I don't know any French and barely know German. :)

[SunWuKong]

i took some highschool french that i can't much remember anymore. but if i had to choose a european language to learn now, i'd choose italian.

[applehead]

Originally posted by Elizabeth A.@Nov 25 2002, 07:44 PM
I'm going to take a foreign language next semester. I wanted to take Japanese - that's filled up. Chinese is too. So now I'm deciding between French or German. Which one should I take?
elizabeth, i suggest you take french. it's a lot of work but so worth it.
it's such a beautiful language, as kao said.

german doesn't sound so nice.. doesn't it sound like they're always coughing up phelgm?
kekeke
french too.. a little bit.

mais oui, elizabeth, etude francais!

i need to brush up on my french too..

[TyroneK(prettypretty)]

I'm trying to think of some prominent Frenchies:

Sartre. Camus. De Beauvoir. Gide.

Give me some time. I'm sure I can come up with more people.

Gunter Grass is no one to sneeze at though. Or so I've heard. I like Brecht, but he's a bit unsubtle.

[kwalan]

If you want to travel around Europe in countries besides just Germany. Take German.

I toured around europe for a few weeks and was surprised at how much Deutsche reading material I came across in menus, newspapers, etc in other countries besides Germany.

Sure, French sounds nice and may be vewy vewy thexy to woo someone who doesn't know french (oh gawd, with an accent... ;P) but I guess I'm just thinking from a practical standpoint. good luck with either decision, learning any new language is difficult.

[TyroneK(prettypretty)]

Hey. French is spoken at a lot of places too. Switzerland, Luxembourg, Belgium, Monaco... It just seems that the Europeans speak so many languages that you can't really say you should learn one over the other.

Also, if you're thinking of things from a Romance language standpoint, French can help you learn other languages pretty easily. I've found I can kind of pick up Spanish and Italian because of my French background.

Well, I suppose you can do that for German too.

Anyways, I liked learning French. I suggest what I know.

[artsfartsyjanet]

Parle Francais! J'ai pris la langue francaise depuis 6 ans. J'ai appris et l'aime beaucoup!

Ok..ok.... I'm a french minor. i can't help it. Anyway, what i meant to say was: Take french! i took the language for six years. I learned and love it a lot!

[ChinaLama]

Originally posted by VBKao@Nov 26 2002, 04:35 AM
I'm trying to think of some prominent Frenchies:

Sartre. Camus. De Beauvoir. Gide.

Give me some time. I'm sure I can come up with more people.

Gunter Grass is no one to sneeze at though. Or so I've heard. I like Brecht, but he's a bit unsubtle.
No doubt, there are prominent French ppl. I'm not dissing all of them; in fact, i'm not even dissing most of them. In the field of literature since, say 18th century onward, they've certainly beat most other Europeans (i mean what's their competition? Jane "Austen? Charles "Great Expectations unmet" Dickens?

But in the field of social thought, in the things that have to this day influenced our policy, our academics, our Weltanschauung (that's not a French word), our morality, I think Germans deserve more credit. Well, this is really mostly 19th century. Like I said, since then, the French have made a huge comeback in that field (Saussure may be Spanish, but Levi-Strauss is French, Boudier, Satre, Camus, etc.).

And it's just my personal prejudice that I tend to weigh philosophers and social scientists above literateurs. And it DOES kind of piss me off that, in hs at least, we spent so much time on lightweights like Voltaire and the "French Englightenment" when the only really significant person to come out of it was Rousseau, which is telling in that most people will mention Rousseau as pretty much in a category by himself while the rest of the French thinkers were grouped as "philosophes." I guess I may be undercounting the importance of mathematicians here. While Montesquieu may have contributed the checks and balances idea to American goverance, American ideals (pursuit of life, liberty, and happiness--ie, property) are based on older, Lockean ideas. The major debates that even to this day govern epistemology and morals, etc revolve around Kant's challenge to Hume (German vs Scot). Kant certainly wasn't going to waste his time answering Diderot or Moliere.

But I suppose my base prejudice against French as a language comes from my childhood perception that it's just SNOOTY...and while I'm a very intellectually elitist person myself, I don't like snobbery.

[Chris]

sie sphrend sie deutche. Deustche gudt. ;)

[iris]

Originally posted by ChinaLama@Nov 26 2002, 06:11 AM
Originally posted by VBKao@Nov 26 2002, 04:35 AM
I'm trying to think of some prominent Frenchies:

Sartre. Camus. De Beauvoir. Gide.

Give me some time. I'm sure I can come up with more people.

Gunter Grass is no one to sneeze at though. Or so I've heard. I like Brecht, but he's a bit unsubtle.
No doubt, there are prominent French ppl. I'm not dissing all of them; in fact, i'm not even dissing most of them. In the field of literature since, say 18th century onward, they've certainly beat most other Europeans (i mean what's their competition? Jane "Austen? Charles "Great Expectations unmet" Dickens?

But in the field of social thought, in the things that have to this day influenced our policy, our academics, our Weltanschauung (that's not a French word), our morality, I think Germans deserve more credit. Well, this is really mostly 19th century. Like I said, since then, the French have made a huge comeback in that field (Saussure may be Spanish, but Levi-Strauss is French, Boudier, Satre, Camus, etc.).

And it's just my personal prejudice that I tend to weigh philosophers and social scientists above literateurs. And it DOES kind of piss me off that, in hs at least, we spent so much time on lightweights like Voltaire and the "French Englightenment" when the only really significant person to come out of it was Rousseau, which is telling in that most people will mention Rousseau as pretty much in a category by himself while the rest of the French thinkers were grouped as "philosophes." I guess I may be undercounting the importance of mathematicians here. While Montesquieu may have contributed the checks and balances idea to American goverance, American ideals (pursuit of life, liberty, and happiness--ie, property) are based on older, Lockean ideas. The major debates that even to this day govern epistemology and morals, etc revolve around Kant's challenge to Hume (German vs Scot). Kant certainly wasn't going to waste his time answering Diderot or Moliere.

But I suppose my base prejudice against French as a language comes from my childhood perception that it's just SNOOTY...and while I'm a very intellectually elitist person myself, I don't like snobbery.
Haha. Oh my God, the thought that goes into choosing a language! :dance:

Looks like the French and German are running neck and neck.

[ChinaLama]

Originally posted by Chris@Nov 26 2002, 06:41 AM
sie sphrend sie deutche. Deustche gudt. ;)
Mein Deutsch ist sehr schlecht, Ich kann nicht was du sagen verstehen.

ok i'm gonna stop humiliating myself.

*runs away w/ ducked head in shame*

my german's gotten so bad, it took me forever to make out these extremely basic lyrics fr Nena's song, 99 Luftballoons *AKA 99 Red Balloons -- the English version known to 80s music fans*


Hast du immer Zeit fuer mich
singe ich eine Lied fuer dich
auf neunundneunzig luftballoons
...and this one I just plain forgot. :(

[ellsworth81]

whatever happened to latin, or arabic, or even tagalog. :rolleyes:

[lethal]

I took Spanish for 7 years. Don't remember a thing.

Are you planning to just take 1 semester or are you planning to continue?

If just 1 semester or even year, it doesn't really matter. You won't learn enough to use in Europe on a practical basis and you sure won't be reading literature. Take what you think will be more fun or that you'd enjoy better.

If you're planning to take it for several years, then read the advice of the other posters and take it into consideration when making your decision :)

Good luck.

[AliBabaIncorporated]

Originally posted by ellsworth81@Nov 26 2002, 03:46 PM
whatever happened to latin, or arabic, or even tagalog. :rolleyes:
Arabic is one of the hardest languages in the world. Defense Language Institute ranks it as a level 3 language, meaning after 720 hours of study you might be barely communicative. (Compare to level 1 languages, where after 720 hours of study you'll be at native proficiency). I know random words and phrases in Arabic, but hell if I'm ever gonna be able to form complete sentences, or read it, or write it. I haven't heard of any schools which offer Tagalog as part of regular course offerings, besides Cornell and UCs. My dad took German in college. First term: B. Second term: C-. Third term: withdrawal. My mom took Spanish in college and now, decades after graduation, can ask "donde esta la biblioteca?" My sister took French in college and now speaks fluently. But that was only cuz she also took it since kindergarten (yeah Catholic schools, emphasis on early language education!). Conclusion: college is a really bad time to start a new language, unless you plan to study like a nut and make a commitment to using the language in your daily activities for the rest of your life.

Latin may be the only language from which you'll get lots of returns to only a short term of study. If you can't figure out an intellectual-sounding way of saying something in English, just translate directly into Latin and suddenly you sound classically educated. Throw an "alea iacta est," "cui bono," "festina lente" into your speech sometime and you're a hit at cocktail parties. In addition, you'll be able to read legal pleadings with ease. I learned all this in one trimester of high school Latin, so can you!

[mike4bmp]

Originally posted by ChinaLama@Nov 26 2002, 03:56 AM
German, because I think so much of modern Western civilization comes from German thought (Luther, Kant, Marx, Nietzsche, Einstein, Kafka, etc) that understanding German well would let you have the best bang for the buck in helping to understand the civilization we live in.

(i took German in hs btw and i think French is kinda snooty, so i'm naturally prejudiced against it :))
I agree! French sounds cool....but I've noticed that there seems to be a lot of great German writings that never got translated into English (just from reading books that have footnotes and quotes from German works that don't have English names).....and like someone said before...I think it would make more sense to learn German since they have had some of the greatest influence on the Western world.

[wylin]

swahilli

[angel nympho]

French just seems more... useful. I mean, I'm way more likely to go to France than Germany. Though Germany sounds hella fun. They pronouce stuff hard, though.

[Elizabeth A.]

Okay, let's see what each has going for it:

French: "Pretty sounding", Rimbaud, Sartre, and Voltaire, spoken in parts of Africa and sometimes in Vietnam.

German: language of philosophers, and such people as Goethe, Nietzhce, Luther, Marx, Einstein, and Gunter Grass. Also, I've been to Luzern, Switzerland (a German-speaking part) and it's one of the most beautiful places I've ever seen and I really really really want to go back someday.

I'm leaning towards German now.

I will have made a decision by next Wednesday.

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by Elizabeth A.@Nov 26 2002, 04:57 PM
Okay, let's see what each has going for it:

French: "Pretty sounding", Rimbaud, Sartre, and Voltaire, spoken in parts of Africa and sometimes in Vietnam.

German: language of philosophers, and such people as Goethe, Nietzhce, Luther, Marx, Einstein, and Gunter Grass. Also, I've been to Luzern, Switzerland (a German-speaking part) and it's one of the most beautiful places I've ever seen and I really really really want to go back someday.

I'm leaning towards German now.

I will have made a decision by next Wednesday.
of course, this is assuming that you'll stick with the language long enough that you'll be proficient to read german philosophy - and also assume that you would want to read all this german philosophy.

just keep in mind that french is more commonly used around the world. in fact there are more french speaking people in europe than english speaking people.

[Elizabeth A.]

Ah, wait: never mind. It looks like German is going to fill up before my registration date (twelve spots left as of now, I can't register until next Wednesday)

French it is, I guess.

[noriko]

ah, le français...pas la langue le plus utile dans le monde entiere, mais si on veut voir les grandes villes d'europe, ou si on veut voyager dans l'afrique, c'est une langue que pourrait vous aider de temps en temps.

so yeah. if you must choose between one of those, I would take french. It's not all that useful, but not too complicated, and people speak it in more places than german, as has been said.

plus, i have to say, french has more swear words, and more inventive ones, than any other language i know:)