Asian files civil rights suit against Princeton

[MD2020]

Is this the first time an Asian has sued an institution for using Affirmative Action?

I'm not sure about the specifics - seems like he's just launched a complaint and not an actual lawsuit. I imagine this is some sort of Section VII violation and not a 14th Amendment violation that would be governed by Grutter v. Bolinger - because Princeton is not a state organ.

I can't post links yet, so remove the spaces:

www . dailyprincetonian . com/archives/2006/11/13/news/16544 . shtml

[haplesshobo]

I think its about time; its asian americans who get shafted by affirmative action. Studies have shown that if you removed affirmative action, white numbers wouldn't really change but asian numbers might increase by a third.

The guy got perfect scores on his SAT and almost perfect score on his SATII, and would have definitely been accepted if he was the correct minority.

[SUMO]

Possibly... but there's no guarantee he would've been accepted if he was white. If affirmative action was eliminated, it doesn't mean that guy gets in automatically.

[SunWuKong]

I think its about time; its asian americans who get shafted by affirmative action. Studies have shown that if you removed affirmative action, white numbers wouldn't really change but asian numbers might increase by a third.

that's assuming the schools won't discriminate against Asians, even having taken away affirmative action. there's a prevailing thought that there are "too many" Asians in higher education. with or without affirmative action, this may make some colleges bias anyway, in accepting Asian students.

[yoMAMA]

that's assuming the schools won't discriminate against Asians, even having taken away affirmative action. there's a prevailing thought that there are "too many" Asians in higher education. with or without affirmative action, this may make some colleges bias anyway, in accepting Asian students.

those god damm little slity eyed asians.

[haplesshobo]

that's assuming the schools won't discriminate against Asians, even having taken away affirmative action. there's a prevailing thought that there are "too many" Asians in higher education. with or without affirmative action, this may make some colleges bias anyway, in accepting Asian students.

By taking away affirmative action, you're removing one of the instruments that these colleges can use to discriminate against asians. Right now, affirmative action gives these schools a convienent blanket to hide their biases. Remove affirmative action, where schools can't use it anymore, then those schools are going to have less room to manuver to try to limit the number of asians.

We can look at universities that curtailed affirmative action and other studies to come to the conclusion that its asians who are penalized the most by affirmative action. Take out affirmative action, and the number of asian students always spikes up.

[yoMAMA]

and would have definitely been accepted if he was the correct minority.

or if his dad is a senator or really wealthy.

[haplesshobo]

Possibly... but there's no guarantee he would've been accepted if he was white. If affirmative action was eliminated, it doesn't mean that guy gets in automatically.

In this case, I think he would have definitely been accepted by Princeton if he had black or hispanic. The guy was on the waitlist for Princeton, so being the 'correct' minority, would have definitley pushed him over. We know that Michigan used to give minoritites like blacks 20 points in the application process just for being black.

I remember in high school, I had this one classmate that got into a much better school than he would otherwise gotten into because he was like one fourth hispanic. If you looked at him, you wouldn't have known he was hispanic. His scores were definitely lower than everybody else's, and he was kinda a goof off. It struck me as unfair that this guy, who goofed off in classes, ended up getting into a better school than some of his peers when they had worked harder in school and had done better in school. He freely admitted that, and joked about that.

[yoMAMA]

here's an article on the guy:

http://www.yaledailynews.com/Article.aspx?ArticleID=34346

hard to feel bad for him though, he got accepted to yale!

:D

[BigLew]

here's an article on the guy:

http://www.yaledailynews.com/Article.aspx?ArticleID=34346

hard to feel bad for him though, he got accepted to yale!

:D

I don't think it's pity he wants, I kinda like the fact that he won't lay down because what he got was "good enough".

[friedfishribs]

I think its about time; its asian americans who get shafted by affirmative action. Studies have shown that if you removed affirmative action, white numbers wouldn't really change but asian numbers might increase by a third.

The guy got perfect scores on his SAT and almost perfect score on his SATII, and would have definitely been accepted if he was the correct minority.

Looking beyond the realm of college admissions, I'd say a lack of affirmative action is hurting Asian Americans in the workplace, in union representation, and in institutions of higher learning and think tanks. The bamboo ceiling is very real.

To me, this entire episode reeks of the racial/ethnic version of divide and conquer. Minorities are pitted against each other so the old boy (white) capitalists can stay in power. Blanket quotas on race and gender are flawed, but they exist to combat systemic discrimination. If institutions at all levels of American society and industry could be counted on to actually apply civil rights laws, then affirmative action wouldn't be necessary. Keep in mind that affirmative action is just the enforcement (albeit clumsy and almost self-contradictory) of civil rights. The college admissions process is highlighted as an example of the "failure" of affirmative action because they're ahead of the curve. When other institutions catch up, societal differences on "merit" between racial, ethnic, and gender demographics can, and should, disappear.

[SunWuKong]

By taking away affirmative action, you're removing one of the instruments that these colleges can use to discriminate against asians. Right now, affirmative action gives these schools a convienent blanket to hide their biases. Remove affirmative action, where schools can't use it anymore, then those schools are going to have less room to manuver to try to limit the number of asians.

We can look at universities that curtailed affirmative action and other studies to come to the conclusion that its asians who are penalized the most by affirmative action. Take out affirmative action, and the number of asian students always spikes up.

well let me say first that i'm opposed to race-based affirmative action, but not because i think Asians lose out on it, but because i think economics-based affirmative action makes more sense.

having said that...

1) i believe that only UCLA had a sharp increase in Asian enrollment since CA eliminated affirmative action (but i'm not 100% sure on this).

2) it seems from your post that you realise it's not affirmative action in and of itself that's limitting Asian admission. it's the fact that universities choose to take seats away from Asian applications who are otherwise more qualified than some white applicants in order to fulfill the affirmative action goal of giving preference to underrepresented ethnic minorities. if, on the average, Asian applicants are more qualified than white applicants, then affirmative action should be more limitting to white admission than it is for Asian admission. affirmative action does not say to take seats away from overrepresented minorities (Asians) and give them to underrepresented minorities (blacks, Latinos, and Native Americans). so the problem is how the universities have administrated affirmative action, (or rather, that universities discriminate against Asians) and not affirmative action itself. yes, these universities "blanket" their bias in affirmative action - but then you have to wonder, since eliminating affirmative action definitely causes a drop in black and Latino acceptance, would it not be better to combat the problem of bias against Asian applicants directly, instead of getting rid of an excuse to justify the bias?

3) eliminating affirmative action will not eliminate the sentiment that there are "too many Asians" in higher education. decades ago when Jewish students starting being overrepresented in ivy league schools, it spurred them to change their admission criteria so that it included more than just grades and test scores. for example, they started giving more consideration to football team captains because supposedly they display leadership qualities. regardless of affirmative action, there still exists the problem that many universities discriminate Asian admission because they already have "too many Asians". take away affirmative action, the cynic in me says that they'd just find another excuse or "blanket" for their bias.

4) some Asian ethnic groups fall under the "underrepresented" groups, this is especially true of those from refugee backgrounds. many of them perform at around the black and Latino levels, that is to say, below the white average, as opposed to some other Asian ethnic groups that perform on par with the white average or even above it. eliminating affirmative action would also eliminate a chance for schools to give these Asian ethnic groups preference.

[yoMAMA]

4) some Asian ethnic groups fall under the "underrepresented" groups, this is especially true of those from refugee backgrounds. many of them perform at around the black and Latino levels, that is to say, below the white average, as opposed to some other Asian ethnic groups that perform on par with the white average or even above it. eliminating affirmative action would also eliminate a chance for schools to give these Asian ethnic groups preference.

That is so true, especially with some southeast asian communities (such as the hmong).

[haplesshobo]

1) i believe that only UCLA had a sharp increase in Asian enrollment since CA eliminated affirmative action (but i'm not 100% sure on this).



You saw asian enrollment go up at UCBerkely as well although I'm not sure if this effect was also seen at the less presitgious UC schools. Affirmative action is going to have the greatest effect for asian enrollment on the more prestigious, exclusive schools. You'd probably see the greatest shift with the Ivy League schools if they ever got rid of affirmative action, which they haven't had to do since they're mostly private institutions. The Princeton study concluded that asian numbers would increase by a third if affirmative action was eliminated.