Survivor: Cook Islands

[Russ]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060823/ap_on_en_tv/survivor

New 'Survivor' divides groups by race

LOS ANGELES (AP) - Get ready for a segregated "Survivor." Race will matter on the upcoming season of the CBS show as contestants will be divided into four tribes by ethnicity. That means blacks, whites, Latinos and Asians in separate groups.

The announcement was made on CBS' Early Show. Host Jeff Probst says the idea "actually came from the criticism that 'Survivor' was not ethnically diverse enough." He says the twist fits in perfectly with what "Survivor" does, saying the show is "a social experiment. And this is adding another layer to that experiment." Probst says contestants had mixed reactions to the racial divisions.

This time the new Survivors are stranded on the Cook Islands in the South Pacific. The castaways include a police officer, a heavy metal guitarist, an attorney and a nail salon manager. The new season of Survivor debuts September 14th.


Profiles of the new cast found here:
http://www.cbsnews.com/elements/2006/08/23/earlyshow/photoessay1926802_0_1_photo.shtml

[soulman386]

Wow! Really distasteful. People in america need to learn to work together. What kind of message does this send?

[younggiftedandblack]

YES!!!!

I've been waiting for this!

[pikachupacabra]

I think this'll be good only because it'll practically ensure that some asian males can fricken be on television for once.

[kimpossible]

YES!!!!

I've been waiting for this!

My gosh. You're so excited I'm excited for you. I might even watch this one and I hate Survivor.

[TB4000]

Now we'll see who the superior race is.

[Napoleon Chynamite]

It's on like Donkey Kong.

[hooligan]

In the end, we all lose.

[pikachupacabra]

In the end, we all lose.


but really, doesn't that mean we all WIN also?

[Craig]

It's on like Donkey Kong.Are you trying to say that Gorillas are superior to Italians ?

[hooligan]

but really, doesn't that mean we all WIN also?

good point. hahahaha.

[Hiroshi2]

Hahaha, it'll be just like prison. Can't wait.

[TB4000]

No matter who wins, there's going to be someone that says, "I know why the *insert ethnic group here* won. They're really good at *insert random stereotypical task here*.

[Redhawk]

No matter who wins, there's going to be someone that says, "I know why the *insert ethnic group here* won. They're really good at *insert random stereotypical task here*.


Oh boy! This is just what we need; Jim Crow on tv. Welcome to the 21 century!

This is just a gimmick to save a fading reality tv serie. Survivor rating has been slipping compare to other shows. In fact, reality tv is not as popular as it once was. There day in the sun is over.

[younggiftedandblack]

Oh boy! This is just what we need; Jim Crow on tv. Welcome to the 21 century!

This is just a gimmick to save a fading reality tv serie. Survivor rating has been slipping compare to other shows. In fact, reality tv is not as popular as it once was. There day in the sun is over.
How is this anything like Jim Crow :confused:

What's the difference between this and seperating the groups based on age or gender like they have done in the past. I hope next year they do it by religion :biggrin:

[thaite]

This is gonna be awesome! I predict Team Yellow will invent air conditioning in week one.

[haplesshobo]

After a few weeks, they'll end up forming new multiethnic teams.

[AngryABCGirl]

http://www.cbsnews.com/elements/2006/08/23/earlyshow/photoessay1926802_0_18_photo.shtml

He's hot.

[Player 0]

What happens if you've got a happa.

[Powerful T]

He'll end up with whichever race he looks most like.

[Deadpool]

http://www.cbsnews.com/elements/2006/08/23/earlyshow/photoessay1926802_0_18_photo.shtml

He's hot.

Fashion director? Hes gay.

[SunWuKong]

http://www.cbsnews.com/elements/2006/08/23/earlyshow/photoessay1926802_0_15_photo.shtml

i might know people who know her. i went to school in Pittsburgh and live in DC now, and know people who did the same.

[thaite]

And asians will definitly eat all the bugs and stuff.

[TB4000]

And asians will definitly eat all the bugs and stuff.
Or every part of the chicken, aka Shii Ann. That still cracked me up how they were pissed at the way she ate that one season.

[Irezumi Kiss]

After looking at the group shots, many of the people from each tribe could pass for another. It'd be cool if you could do spy shit and plant "moles" in each tribe.

[Russ]

The players' bios are up on CBS now:

http://www.cbs.com/primetime/survivor13/

[SunWuKong]

http://www.cbs.com/primetime/survivor13/survivors/bio_cao_boi.shtml

Bui is married to Kristol Bond

WIN. AT. LIFE.

[lethal]

http://www.cbsnews.com/elements/2006/08/23/earlyshow/photoessay1926802_0_15_photo.shtml

i might know people who know her. i went to school in Pittsburgh and live in DC now, and know people who did the same.

She went to Jefferson class of 95, I'm sure (as she's my age). I know maybe 3 dozen people from college who were in her class. She's a year below Ivana Ma of the Apprentice fame.

OK, of the Asian Americans, I count Yul Kwon (Korean American atorney), Jenny Guzon-Bae (Filipino journalist and real estate agent), Becky Lee (Korean attorney), Anh-Tuan "Cao Boi (Cowboy)" Bui (Vietnamese nail salon manager and new age hippie), Brad Virata (unknown ethnicity Fashion Designer - possibly gay (inference through profession)).

[mr. x]

http://www.cbs.com/primetime/survivor13/survivors/bio_cao_boi.shtml



WIN. AT. LIFE.
"and has two children, Jesse Dakota and Nicholas Roundtree"

wtf

bui + bond = dakota + roundtree?

or is it one of those double names like Mary-joe or Anna-mae

[yoMAMA]

http://www.cbsnews.com/elements/2006/08/23/earlyshow/photoessay1926802_0_15_photo.shtml

i might know people who know her. i went to school in Pittsburgh and live in DC now, and know people who did the same.

haha...she's a lawyer (insert whatever lawyer jokes)
:biggrin:

[Tao]

"and has two children, Jesse Dakota and Nicholas Roundtree"

wtf

bui + bond = dakota + roundtree?

or is it one of those double names like Mary-joe or Anna-mae
he's a refugee hippie....interesting character i must say.

[SunWuKong]

Rush Limbaugh comments on the new season of this show... i don't know how to describe it... but please listen for yourself.

http://mediamatters.org/items/200608240003

here's a sample:
We've been looking at this here amongst ourselves, and our early money is going on the Hispanic tribe, providing they stay unified.

We don't know who makes up the -- I mean, we've got the names here of all these members of the tribes, but Hispanic encompasses a lot. You could have a Cuban in there. You could have a Nicaraguan. You could have a Mexican or two. You could have any number. And you know, if they start fighting for supremacy amongst themselves, that could lead to problems. But our early money is on them anyway, because these people have shown a remarkable ability, ladies and gentlemen, to cross borders, boundaries -- they get anywhere they want to go. They can do it without water for a long time. They don't get apprehended, and they will do things other people won't do. So, our money, early money, is on the Hispanics.

[yoMAMA]

Rush Limbaugh comments on the new season of this show... i don't know how to describe it... but please listen for yourself.

http://mediamatters.org/items/200608240003

RL is one entertaining radio host.

Bui is married to Kristol Bond

who's kristoal bond?

[Napoleon Chynamite]

sounds like the name of a drink

[Irezumi Kiss]

I Googled Kristol Bond and all I'm getting is some protective coating solution for tinted glass, used mainly by race car drivers.

[raacluse]

...received this NY email yesterday...

"Council Member John Liu is urging the producers of "Survivor" to
abandon plans to racially segregate participants of this "reality
television" show broadcast throughout the United States. CM Liu and
other elected officials will speak out about this at a 10AM City Hall
news conference tomorrow.

CM Liu will also appear on FOX-TV's "Inside Edition" to discuss this
issue. .."


He's already been quoted in the New York Post:

At least one local political leader, City Councilman John Liu, was
offended by the new format.

"My thoughts are, 'What the hell are they thinking?' " he said.

"At best, it's stupidity at play - and at worst, it could be
lawbreaking," said Liu (D-Queens). "What if someone white would like
to compete on the so-called 'black team' and vice versa? This doesn't
do anything for getting people together and promoting harmony. It's
just plain stupid."

=- =- =- =- =-

Well, it's too late for that. Hasn't shooting already wrapped up?... unless, maybe Liu got paid to say that to drum up publicity for the upcoming season (call me cynical...) :cool:

[SunWuKong]

i really like John Liu, but isn't he kind of overstepping the scope of his job as a city councilman here?

[yoMAMA]

...received this NY email yesterday...

"Council Member John Liu is urging the producers of "Survivor" to
abandon plans to racially segregate participants of this "reality
television" show broadcast throughout the United States. CM Liu and
other elected officials will speak out about this at a 10AM City Hall
news conference tomorrow.

CM Liu will also appear on FOX-TV's "Inside Edition" to discuss this
issue. .."


He's already been quoted in the New York Post:

At least one local political leader, City Councilman John Liu, was
offended by the new format.

"My thoughts are, 'What the hell are they thinking?' " he said.

"At best, it's stupidity at play - and at worst, it could be
lawbreaking," said Liu (D-Queens). "What if someone white would like
to compete on the so-called 'black team' and vice versa? This doesn't
do anything for getting people together and promoting harmony. It's
just plain stupid."

=- =- =- =- =-

Well, it's too late for that. Hasn't shooting already wrapped up?... unless, maybe Liu got paid to say that to drum up publicity for the upcoming season (call me cynical...) :cool:

this city council dude is playing right to cbs's hands.

they want controversy, so as to generate ratings.

[thaite]

everybody's in an uproar -- because they don't want their race to lose.

[yoMAMA]

he's a refugee hippie....interesting character i must say.

It's not everyday you see an asian hippie.

although he operates a nail saloon now....

can't get any more asian than that.

:p

[moJo]

i'd put my money on the hispanic team because they have a pro volleball player and a popo with the LAPD.

[SunWuKong]

i'm rooting for Vietnamese refugee-soldier-hippy guy to last longer than anybody else. because he seems like a cool guy.

[grimfan]

It's not even segregated on "proper" racial lines.

There's no race called the Hispanics!!!

Considering that racial differences, for the most part, are purely cosmetic, why not just make a Survivor where it's the ugly vs. the good-looking?

And why aren't Jews represented? They're not a race, but Hispanics aren't either. And what about Arabs and Indians? They're technically Caucasian, but hey, the way white America treats them, you'd never know it.

[SunWuKong]

It's not even segregated on "proper" racial lines.

There's no race called the Hispanics!!!

Considering that racial differences, for the most part, are purely cosmetic, why not just make a Survivor where it's the ugly vs. the good-looking?

And why aren't Jews represented? They're not a race, but Hispanics aren't either. And what about Arabs and Indians? They're technically Caucasian, but hey, the way white America treats them, you'd never know it.

according to Rush Limbaugh, Native Americans are not represented because they would win hands-down.

but whether or not Latinos are a "race", that probably just depends on who you ask.

[grimfan]

I bet if the whites win, it'll be because they're racially superior to everybody else. If the whites lose, it'll be because the other races are more savage and are better suited for uncivilized environments.

[Russ]

It remains to be seen how much of a factor these racial/ethnic groupings will have on the final outcome. It could be like last season there was an early reshuffling of the four initial tribes into the two larger ones that fought it out to be the dominant alliance. In that case the initial tribe groupings did not have much carryover effect.

[grimfan]

Here's what Jeff Probst had to say: http://www.ew.com/ew/report/0,6115,1279451_3_0_,00.html

''Suddenly you have new slang, new rituals, people doing things like making fire in ways that haven't been done before on Survivor. I think we have a season where people will say you can never go back to what you were before.''

Um, new rituals? Other ways of making fire? WTF? Aren't all of these contestants Americans? Didn't they all go to Boys and Girls Scouts and learn to make fire by rubbing sticks together? Oh wait, the blacks must have their secret voodoo magic and the Asians have their ancestral spirit power because the only true Americans are white.

What an idiot!

[Faithless]

Okay, I agree with more ethnic representation, but automatically dividing them, if I've read that right, sounds wrong.

They should have let the teams pick themselves. That would have been more interesting and sort of a little mini study of racial attitudes versus other characteristics.

Now I can see this thing sucking even worse, if they do something like this --

Meanwhile back with the http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v245/chottomatte/survivor_asian0001.jpg

.
The players' bios are up on CBS now:

http://www.cbs.com/primetime/survivor13/
Let's play, "Pick the potential Asiaphile!"

I pick JP (http://www.cbs.com/primetime/survivor13/survivors/bio_jp.shtml)

[yoMAMA]

I think the mere fact that we are having this 4 page long discussion means that CBS has served its puprose of raising interests in the survior show.

[Faithless]

I think the mere fact that we are having this 4 page long discussion means that CBS has served its puprose of raising interests in the survior show.
What's worse is that the internet news coverage is large.

[TB4000]

You just know there's going to be some interracial fucking going on, which will screw up their whole dynamic.

[Faithless]

.
Meanwhile ABC will pit Ugly Betty (http://metromix.chicagotribune.com/tv/mmx-0608270002aug27,0,1581449.story?coll=mmx-television_heds) against Survivor.

If enough people are turned-off by Survivor -- The big question is whether its (Ugly Betty's) target audience of young women will turn the series into this year's sleeper hit a la "Desperate Housewives" -- or be repelled by a concept that just didn't translate.

[Redhawk]

How is this anything like Jim Crow :confused:

What's the difference between this and seperating the groups based on age or gender like they have done in the past. I hope next year they do it by religion :biggrin:


Okay I'm back! When people are seperate by color, it's like Jim Crow.
When the tribes merge, whites will not accept any other race but their own. Even when they seperate themselves by age or gender, the new people always goes down fast. (But no all the time: i.e Terry)

In the last Survivor, Curie went down and Ted, Survivor Thailand, was sold out by Brian Heidik who made a deal with Clay to take him out.

I have nothing against white people since I'm 8% white. But whites do help their own. However, they may accept Asians before blacks or Latins.
So out of all twelve Survivors, we have only one African American and one Hispanic winner.

[yoMAMA]

You just know there's going to be some interracial fucking going on, which will screw up their whole dynamic.

damm race mixers!

:mad:

[doe-sun]

Gambling sites have already placed odds on the winner...

The phrasing is, 'from which tribe will the eventual winner be from?'

African American 4/1
Asian 13/7
Hispanic 1/1
White 3/2

Explanation of gambling odds if you don't know: to win the amount of the first number, you must bet the second number.

So if you want to bet on an African American to win Survivor, you'd win four dollars if you bet a dollar on them. In other words, they're underdogs - you could win more than what you had to risk.

The Asian group: you win $1.85 when you bet a dollar on them.
The white group: you win $1.50 when you bet a dollar on them.
The Hispanics have the best odds at 1 to 1, meaning the gambling site (Bodog.com) thinks a Hispanic is going to win.

[eos]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060831/ap_en_tv/gm_survivor

nice job, survivor.
what's next on the agenda? cannibalism? rich vs. poor? hairy vs. hairless?

[Redhawk]

The next Survivor will be probably be Gay vs straight.:biggrin:

[kimpossible]

Have they divided up by gender before?

[thaite]

yes

[younggiftedandblack]

Have they divided up by gender before?
Yeah they've done gender and age. Both which after a couple of shows didn't really mean too much.

[moser]

Not sure if this was posted yet, but...

Until "Survivor" host Jeff Probst sat in on casting sessions for the CBS reality series's new edition, in which competitors were picked and put into "tribes" based on their ethnic background, he had not realized that "Asian" includes Japanese, Koreans and Chinese and that they do not necessarily like each other as a matter of ethnic solidarity.

Whites, on the other hand, are "mutts" and "don't have any ethnicity to hang on to," he told reporters on a phone conference call Wednesday.

"When you start talking to a person from Asia, you realize -- Wow! They have all different backgrounds!" gushed Probst, who described himself repeatedly as a 44-year-old white guy from Wichita.

Rest here (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/09/07/AR2006090701647.html)

[mr. x]

^---A SEVEN NATION ARMY COULDN'T HOLD ME BACK (sorry I actually hate the stripes)

what about the hispanicans? Last I check mexicans and salvadorans don't exactly like each other

[eos]

fuckin tool.

"durrr.....asians all come from one country...ASIA."

[Russ]

Kinda surprised by these comments. Jeff seemed like a knowledgeable, worldly guy. I guess he just plays one on TV.

[mr. x]

Kinda surprised by these comments. Jeff seemed like a knowledgeable, worldly guy. I guess he just plays one on TV.
I have learned that liberal or conservative, white guys can still be douchebags

[Hiroshi2]

It's not even segregated on "proper" racial lines.

There's no race called the Hispanics!!!

Considering that racial differences, for the most part, are purely cosmetic, why not just make a Survivor where it's the ugly vs. the good-looking?

And why aren't Jews represented? They're not a race, but Hispanics aren't either. And what about Arabs and Indians? They're technically Caucasian, but hey, the way white America treats them, you'd never know it.



They have to dumb it down some, you know that. This is reality TV, not a damn anthropology class.

[Napoleon Chynamite]

I have learned that liberal or conservative, white guys can still be douchebags

People can be douchebags period, whether they seem themselves as liberal, conservative, progressive, fundamentalist, new-age, democrat, republican, independent, whatever.

[dlger]

I like how everything else is Hispanic Tribe, African-American Tribe, Asian-American Tribe, and then you got plain, flat out White Tribe. Haha.

[pikachupacabra]

they're all synonymous anyways.

what does hispanic encompass? probably multiple tribes and groups of south-american cultures.

asian encompasses korean, viet, philipino, who knows what else

white tribe is no different, just a bunch of people put under an umbrella label, i.e. french italian english etc all labeled white.

[TB4000]

they're all synonymous anyways.

what does hispanic encompass? probably multiple tribes and groups of south-american cultures.

asian encompasses korean, viet, philipino, who knows what else

white tribe is no different, just a bunch of people put under an umbrella label, i.e. french italian english etc all labeled white.
That right there is the argument most white people have. "Why does everyone have to be labeled japanese, korean, mexican, puerto rican, etc.? You don't see us going around talking about being irish, italian, etc."

[lethal]

That right there is the argument most white people have. "Why does everyone have to be labeled japanese, korean, mexican, puerto rican, etc.? You don't see us going around talking about being irish, italian, etc."

But some white folks, especially the Italians and the Irish do just that.

[eos]

^they don't let us forget about it either.
st. patrick's day: our river is dyed green to look nastier than it already does.
columbus day, various saints days: firecrackers(that the chinese can't even set off for chinese new year!!!!), m-80s, closing side streets, etc. and i'm just describing what happened this past sunday in chinatown. car alarms were going off left and right.

[lycheng]

I had a conversation around the water cooler today at work about Survivor this coming season. Out of the three white co-workers, only one thought that the premise might be controversial.

One of my co-workers even challenged me by saying: "Why not, we have people living in ethnic communities everywhere in the U.S; it's already like tribes." I then officered to explain how stereotypes could be exaggerated to promote a storyline. His response was, "Well, if you're an asshole, they're going to show that you're an asshole". That statement is correct of course, but he failed to recognize what I said was valid too.

I then added the casting process is hardly a fair one, and maybe there's bias in the selection. This guy continued to get on my nerve and said, "Well, of course they're going to cast outspoken people."

If I didn't know him better, I would just classify this guy as another clueless "colorblind society" white guy. But I do know his history. In fact, I have challenged him on racially insensitive comments in the past, so I suspect he's not clueless at all.

I had a much better conversation with the white co-worker who did agree with me. But despite my attempt at including my Asian perspective in the conversation; he was mostly concerned with African American portrayals.

In fact, he made a point that unlike other ethnicities, African Americans don't have a homeland heritage to draw on, and therefore, it's important for them to show that they can win Survivor by just being African American, and not conform to the dominant White culture.

I agreed of course, but I was disappointed that once again, a constructive conversation about race was turned into one between Black and White.

lycheng

[chocochewiness]

Well, I'm definitely gonna watch it. I think the reason we don't describe Caucasian people as Italian, French, or British, is that most Caucasian are mixed alot, and it'd be kinda hard to call someone "That French, German, Italian, Dutch, Czech, Russian, Swedish, Swiss, Austrian, Greek, Irish, Britsh, and Norwegian kid"

[ahsingjai]

This is bullshit, all the asian americans cast are wimps. The guy is a fashion designer. wth...

Hispanics got a girl from Oakland, Ca. Woo, I think they will win. Shoot everyone!

[TB4000]

^Basically all the asian people should be in the vein of Better Luck Tomorrow then.

[Russ]

Mods,

Probably this thread title should be changed to include the season name, something like the following:

Survivor: Cook Islands - tribes divided by ethnicity

[returntosender]

I agreed of course, but I was disappointed that once again, a constructive conversation about race was turned into one between Black and White.


Paramount showed us this chart: Caucasians, African Americans, Hispanics. And we asked them, where's the yellow part? And they said there is none, because Asians consume like Caucasians. You guys buy, you dress, you read and you're educated like white people. There's no demand for it.

That's a quote by Sung Kang in a recent interview. I guess it would make sense when talking about race that people usually focuse on blacks and whites.

[SunWuKong]

I had a conversation around the water cooler today at work about Survivor this coming season. Out of the three white co-workers, only one thought that the premise might be controversial.

One of my co-workers even challenged me by saying: "Why not, we have people living in ethnic communities everywhere in the U.S; it's already like tribes." I then officered to explain how stereotypes could be exaggerated to promote a storyline. His response was, "Well, if you're an asshole, they're going to show that you're an asshole". That statement is correct of course, but he failed to recognize what I said was valid too.

I then added the casting process is hardly a fair one, and maybe there's bias in the selection. This guy continued to get on my nerve and said, "Well, of course they're going to cast outspoken people."

If I didn't know him better, I would just classify this guy as another clueless "colorblind society" white guy. But I do know his history. In fact, I have challenged him on racially insensitive comments in the past, so I suspect he's not clueless at all.

I had a much better conversation with the white co-worker who did agree with me. But despite my attempt at including my Asian perspective in the conversation; he was mostly concerned with African American portrayals.

In fact, he made a point that unlike other ethnicities, African Americans don't have a homeland heritage to draw on, and therefore, it's important for them to show that they can win Survivor by just being African American, and not conform to the dominant White culture.

I agreed of course, but I was disappointed that once again, a constructive conversation about race was turned into one between Black and White.

lycheng

i have given up talking to white people about racial issues. they just don't get it. no offense, white people! but you just don't get it. or the white people i know in real life, anyway. you either get the liberals who are all "race doesn't exist" or too sensitive to talk about racial difference, or you get the conservatives who think that racial equality means the status quo and that minorities are getting "special treatments".

[eos]

i have given up talking to white people about racial issues. they just don't get it. no offense, white people! but you just don't get it. or the white people i know in real life, anyway. you either get the liberals who are all "race doesn't exist" or too sensitive to talk about racial difference, or you get the conservatives who think that racial equality means the status quo and that minorities are getting "special treatments".


as opposed to the ones you know in fake life??

i make no apologies.

take offense, white people. you don't get it and you never will. if there was a way to switch our lives with yours, you'd be begging to switch back in a heartbeat.

[rice cracker]

I think he means white people he knows online?

[eos]

yeah i know. i was just being stupid. again.

[lycheng]

i have given up talking to white people about racial issues. they just don't get it. no offense, white people! but you just don't get it. or the white people i know in real life, anyway. you either get the liberals who are all "race doesn't exist" or too sensitive to talk about racial difference, or you get the conservatives who think that racial equality means the status quo and that minorities are getting "special treatments".

Yeah, I hear you, it's incredibly frustrating talking about race to Whites. If Survivor: Cook Islands has any redeeming value, it would be to stimulate a constructive discussion about race in this country. And as my experience pointed out, this isn't going to be easy.

Regarding the liberal types versus the conservative types, I see your point too. However, in my case, the White guy who made the conversation into one of Whites versus Blacks actually was perceptive enough to say exactly what you said: that "color blind society" liberals can be as racist as "special treatment" conservatives. After hearing that, I nodded in agreement and continued the discussion. But then he made the African Americans don't have a homeland heritage comment.

My sense is that this guy felt my viewpoint about Asian Americans being a minority was somehow not authentic enough. He made the comment in response to what I said, which was explaining the acculturation issues that I faced because I have parents who were first generation immigrants. I even explained the 1.5 generation concept and how it's difficult to straddle two cultures, and so on.

So thinking about the context of what I said, and his response to what I said, that African Americans didn't have a homeland heritage, I have to wonder if here is another instance where the Model Minority stereotype bites us.

Specifically, the fact that Asian Americans are a member of the model minority means our viewpoint as a minority is diminished such that, when we tell whites about our experience, the first thing they think of is how AA's don't really have it as hard. Therefore, he said, "African Americans don't have a heritage to draw on".

While I would never try to argue that AA's share the terrible history suffered by American Blacks, nor would I argue that the racial discrimination faced by AA is worst than Blacks, I have a problem when my viewpoint as a minority continuously gets overshadowed by the White man's burden of slavery.

What I'm trying to say is that racial and identity politics is not a zero sum game. We should acknowledge the leadership role that African Americans have played in the struggle for equal rights. At the same time other minority voices should be heard too.

take offense, white people. you don't get it and you never will. if there was a way to switch our lives with yours, you'd be begging to switch back in a heartbeat.

Yes, whites will never understand 100% what minorities face in this country. But they might understand 50%, right? And in my book, that's enough to continue to engage them.

lycheng

[Shuriken]

So, this is what it takes to get Asian Americans on primetime network television.

:P

[Fly_Away_M]

So, my mom was just one of the many people offended by the premise, and yet she just turned it on! And I was like 'But aren't you offended?' and she said 'Of course I am! But I'm just curious since there was so much hype about it'.

And I told her that she's just playing into the network executive's trap, because they want people to get all riled up about it and tune in anyways. (Although she did still say they shouldn't have done it and I don't think she'll watch after this episode.) Even Phil Yu of the AAA blog said he'd watch it. Don't encourage it people!

On a related note, my friend told me in the car that she can't wait until people in the future open up textbooks and say "Race? What's that? You mean people actually divided each other into those?" and I was all "I know! It'll be so great!" ^^

I'm not denying that they don't exist, but we're not born automatically classifying someone walking down the street as this race or that. So I have hope!

[SunWuKong]

hahha, the Asians won the challenge because they had to solve some puzzle in the challenge.

[yoMAMA]

So, this is what it takes to get Asian Americans on primetime network television.

:P

hey, whatever it takes.

sure beats william huang. :biggrin:

[Faithless]

hahha, the Asians won the challenge because they had to solve some puzzle in the challenge.
So, this episode was something a person could stomach?

Man, I can see where the wrong idea about AA's might come out if some of these dudes in the AA camp start editorializing the AA experience.

[snailpoo]

Holy.

Just read the resume of one of the cast:

Kwon then attended Stanford University and obtained a Bachelor of Science Degree in symbolic systems (theoretical computer science). While at Stanford, he received the James Lyons Award for Service, attended officer candidates school for the U.S. Marine Corps and graduated Phi Beta Kappa. Kwon went on to receive his Juris Doctor Degree from Yale Law School, where he served on the editorial board of the Yale Law Journal.

Kwon has enjoyed a diverse career straddling both the private and public sectors in law, business and technology. He practiced a mix of litigation, appellate, transactional and regulatory work at several law firms. He also served as a judicial clerk to a federal judge on the 2nd Circuit Court of Appeals. Additionally, he worked as a legislative aide to Senator Joseph Lieberman in Washington, D.C., where he helped draft sections of the Homeland Security Bill and other technology-related legislation. Several years ago, Kwon decided to switch careers and become a management consultant at McKinsey. From there, he joined Google's business strategy group and most recently went back into consulting.

http://www.cbs.com/primetime/survivor13/survivors/bio_yul.shtml


Stanford
Yale Law
McKinsey


...!

[SunWuKong]

yeah i read that before. he's smart even for an Asian! heh... the Korean girl is also an attorney.

[snailpoo]

yeah i read that before. he's smart even for an Asian! heh... the Korean girl is also an attorney.

Yeah, but... what is he doing there?

Simply put, if he works for ... <insert several top firms here>, he would be a what? 5th? 6th? 7th? year associate?

He can't be there for the money.


It just seems odd to me that someone that driven to hit all those specific career stepping stones would be on a reality TV show.

[Napoleon Chynamite]

An insurance salesman, tax collector, and lawyer find themselves stranded on an island inhabited by a bloodthirsty cannibal tribe. The leader offers each a chance to live by defeating the tribe's most fearsome and vicious warrior. The leader tells them that they will have a choice of weaponry between a fork, dagger, or hatchet, and says that if they lose their lives in battle, their skins will be ripped off their bodies and used to make canoes.

The insurance salesman chooses the hatchet and gets killed off immediately.

The tax collector chooses the dagger and makes a valiant effort but ultimately also meets his doom.

The lawyer surprisingly chooses the fork, and then proceeds to stab himself in the face and chest, creating a myriad of small yet painful and ugly puncture wounds. The leader stares at him incredulously and asks him what the hell he is doing. The lawyer responds by saying "Try to make a canoe out of this, asshole."




xD don't kill me

[kasia]

ASIAN POP
The Tribe Has Spoken
By Jeff Yang, Special to SF Gate

Friday, September 15, 2006

Gathering his own tribe of Asian American observers for the premiere of "Survivor: Cook Island", Jeff Yang chronicles the debut of the reality show's racially segregated 13th season.

It's the classic dilemma of the culture critic. You know your chain's being yanked -- let's face it, Mark Burnett's been dragging all of America around by the neck for the last dozen years now -- but you still can't help but respond, because a.) that's your job, and b.) the chain-yanking itself, if extreme enough, is newsworthy by definition.

Which makes us totally complicit. Without the considerate flipping of our Zippos, masters of media manipulation like Burnett wouldn't be lighting their cigars with hundred-dollar bills. Heck, if Burnett just had a dollar for every time someone called reality television "crass" or "cynical"...oh wait. He does!

Nevertheless, here I am joining my peers in chiming in, once again, as Burnett unveils his latest made-for-controversy spectacle "Survivor: Race War," otherwise known as "Survivor 13: Cook Island."

Burnett's decision to divide up this season's contestants by race has generated the show its most attention in its 12-year history, with politicians calling for its boycott ("It could be lawbreaking," said Queens city councilman John Liu, a vocal opponent of the show. "What if someone white would like to compete on the so-called 'black team' and vice versa?") and media advocates demanding that sponsors pull their support from a show that, with nary an episode yet aired, has been called "television apartheid" and a "new minstrelsy."

Interestingly, while most Asian Americans I pinged about the show acknowledged its exploitative aspects, there was also a sneaky, recurring theme, best illustrated by this remark from my L.A.-based friend Winston: "American TV audiences, and by extension, the media that covers it, enjoy a racial 'Battle of the Network Stars'-- witness FX's 'Black White' -- so I see this for what it is: a surefire controversy generator. If the competition gets physical, and I'm sure it will, even better for the ratings and media angle," he emailed me. "I just hope we kick ass."

"We" meaning the Asian Americans, of course -- the Puka Puka tribe, made up of nail salon manager Anh-tuan "Cao Boi" Bui, real estate agent Jenny Guzon-Bae, fashion director Brad Virota, attorney Becky Lee, and management consultant Yul Kim.

Winston has a point: Sure, I had concerns about the troubling ethical issues surrounding the show, and the political cloud gradually settling over it...but, truthfully, I kinda wanted to see these guys kick ass too.

How often do Asian Americans get a chance to represent the race on a big stage anyway? Is this very different than rooting for the home team against everyone but the Houston Rockets, because that's my man Yao Ming's joint? And what if the concept behind the program weren't being executed by a giant media conglomerate, but, say, a multicultural theater collective? Would people see it as race war, or performance art?

So, despite my ambivalence, I did what thousands of other people were probably doing across the nation -- I assembled my local tribal council for a Cook Island premiere-watching party.

The cast: Freelance writer Ursula; television producer P.C. and her husband Eric; attorney Suyin; and web producer Anna Liza and her husband John. Plus, as play-by-play commentator and guest of honor: "Survivor: Thailand" contestant Shii-Ann Huang, also known by her nickname the "Shii Devil." All highly opinionated, observant -- and, of course, Asian American, with the exception of in-laws Eric and John, whom the council granted immunity for the purposes of the evening.

After sitting down to a painstakingly multicultural buffet of chow fun noodles, fajitas, fried chicken, and Wonder Bread, we turned on the TV and got down to business. What follows is real-time highlights of a unique social experiment -- documenting what happens when smart, progressive Asian Americans are marooned in front of a television reality show for an hour, with nothing but beer and irony to sustain them.

Show opening credits roll. Miserable people in a boat, with Jeff Probst flabbering on about the solemn gravity of the contestants' situation.

The groupings of the castaways are announced, and various contestants express shock. Apparently, they weren't told in advance that teams were being segregated by race.

"Now they're going to introduce a special guest host," says Suyin. "Strom Thurmond, back from the dead."

"Did you see that? That white guy just grabbed the Asian guy's chicken," says Anna Liza.

"Don't worry, the chickens are going to come home to roost," I crack.

"Oh look, there's a shark," says P.C.

"Is it a white shark?" says Suyin.

Jeff Probst explains in greater detail the structure of the season's game, as the tribes are introduced one by one.

"Do you think Jeff Probst is rooting for the whites?" says Anna Liza.

"No, he's colorless," I say. "That Vietnamese guy's name is not pronounced Cao Boi (cowboy). Oh wait, it is."

"I think I know Yul," says Suyin. "I'm pretty sure I lived next door to him a few years ago. I borrowed his Leatherman tool and never gave it back."

"Great, now the Asian American team is going to lose because Yul doesn't have his Leatherman," I say.

"I find it troubling that all South Asians are being represented in this show by a white chick named Parvati," says Suyin.

Shii-Ann makes her appearance, delayed by the storm and train issues.

"Oh God, it's started," says Shii-Ann. "I can't believe I'm watching this. I haven't seen the show since I've been on it, it's too traumatic. I still have sand flea scars all over my body from 'Survivor: All Stars' -- when I drink too much, they turn bright red. " A commercial break begins and conversation turns to the advertisements.

"Hey, the show still has some sponsors," says Ursula. "A movie with Kevin Costner and Ashton Kutcher -- guess this one's for the Caucasian tribe."

"All the characters in this ad are white too: White lady, white kid -- ooh, he's holding a turkey leg. Guess that's dark meat," says Suyin.

"Radio Shack ad with black actor...oh, look, Taco Bell," says Ursula.

Back to the program, where Shii-Ann is having flashbacks.

"You know, you're totally delirious by the time they interview you," she says. "Don't waste all your energy rowing, you idiots, it doesn't matter how fast you get there!"

Yul, the hunktastic Korean management consultant comes on screen, talking about the "great opportunity" this show represents to get more minorities on TV.

"He's getting voted off," says Shii-Ann. "Too muscular. He's a threat."

"I have no problem with him being too muscular," says Suyin. "Look at Billy [on the Latino tribe] -- he's going soon. All of his teammates are secretly saying, 'I can't believe we gotta haul your ass to this island."

"No, they have to keep him around as a spare protein source," I say. "This Ozzy guy [on the Latino tribe] is too pretty to be a waiter. You know he's a waiter-actor."

"There are six professional actors this season," says Shii-Ann. "They've never had actors on before." Onscreen, Ozzy suggests that the Latino team has the best chance of winning, "as long as we get fed, and keep ourselves happy" --

"And adequately waxed!" shouts John. "That white dude who stole the chicken, he's at a a disadvantage right away, because he's the only man on the show with chest hair."

The show turns its attention to the Asian tribe.

"Look, Pinay in the house!" says Anna Liza, as Jenny Guzon-Bae makes her appearance. "She's going to have a problem here, because Filipinos only eat things that come in cans. We think that means 'expensive.'"

Yul discusses the tribe's emerging issues with the much-older, and somewhat quirky, Cao Boi.

"I can't believe he's off eating by himself," says Shii-Ann. "People catch you doing that, they get really angry."

Cao Boi discusses how he feels different from his teammates, because he doesn't' "fit the standard Asian American stereotype."

"Dude...you own a nail salon!" says Suyin. "But then again, he does have this crazy hippie thing going on."

"He's going to be a target," says Shii-Ann. "Anyway, it's way too hot to have big hair in the tropics." Over at the white tribe's island, the teammates are cracking coconuts to celebrate their arrival.

"I think it's interesting how each of the other tribes immediately has had to address the issue of stereotypes, and talks about 'representing' for their community, while the white team is here having a cocktail party," I say.

"That's because they're just 'people,'" says Suyin. "They don't have to deal with stereotypes."

"They're the only team that's not in survival mode right from the start, that's significant," says Ursula.

"They're retarded. You don't have a party, you try to start a damn fire," says Shii-Ann.

"Don't worry, they'll just take one of the minority fires," says Ursula.

"I can tell already that this show is going to be successful," says John. "Next season should just go ahead and do white supremacists versus Black Panthers."

"I think next season should be Survivor: LGBT," I say. "They've got to top this somehow. You know everyone's going to bet on the lesbian tribe."

"Yeah, but will there be a tribe for 'Curious'?" asks Suyin.

As the African-American team begins constructing their shelter, conversation turns to the nature of racial identity.

"I don't think you can draw any sweeping generalizations about race based on these teams," says John.

"Well, they're not going to bring in an ethnic studies professor from Berkeley to discuss how race is a social construct," says Suyin.

"Do you think that if people use the 'N-word,' they'll show it?" says Ursula.

"They edit out comments if they're irrelevant," says Shii-Ann. "There were all kinds of things being said on my show. My tribe was 70 percent southerners who'd never left their hometown. There were stupid comments being made about Mexicans. And I kept on getting statements like 'Gee, you must know a lot about Thailand already, you're from Taiwan.' I was like, 'Hello! Geography? What the f-- am I supposed to know about Thailand?'"

Discussion slides over to Jeff Probst and Mark Burnett's statements that the season's novel structure is all about enhancing diversity.

"That's bullsh--," says Ursula. "They've never made any attempt to diversify -- if they emailed an audition notice to one Asian American person, the next day, everyone in the whole community would be getting it."

"Most Asian Americans are too smart to go on this show," says Shii-Ann. "I just happened to be one of the dumb ones."

"Speaking from experience, it's actually really hard to cast for minorities for a program like this," says P.C., a veteran of multiple reality-TV castings. "It takes longer, and a lot of the time, you're under the gun. You have three months to build a show. Even for me, I had a personal agenda to get more Asian people on my show, and you just never get as far as you want to go."

"But reality shows are where you're going to see the most Asian people on TV. 'Grey's Anatomy'? There's one Asian actor," points out Shii-Ann.

"Any hospital that doesn't have 50 percent Asian physicians and Filipino nurses is not a real hospital," offers Anna Liza.

"You have to think of it this way: Isn't it exciting that we're seeing a show with a 75 percent minority cast, on a major network?" says Shii-Ann.

"Hey, a stingray!" says Anna Liza.

"Did you know that ever since Crocodile Hunter was killed, there have been revenge killings of stingrays all around Australia?" says John.

The African-American tribe is having trouble making fire.

"If only the Boy Scouts weren't so goddamn racist, I'm sure someone in this group would know how to make fire," says Suyin.

"It's not going to work, the wood's too wet," says Shii-Ann. "They're going to have to get fire from Jeff Probst."

"Jeff Probst, the modern Prometheus," says Suyin.

The white team, having been too busy partying to build a shelter, is spooning and trying to stay warm.

"This guy Adam's going to have sex TONIGHT," says Ursula. "You can totally see it in his eyes."

"They don't have a choice -- you have to sleep like that, it gets so cold at night," says Shii-Ann. "Should have saved the coconut fling for later, guys--"

"Serves you right, you entitled cracker jerks!" shouts John. "See, that's what people are saying all over the U.S. right now."

"Have they explained why that girl's name is Parvati yet?" asks Ursula.

"I think that looks like a little bit more than just warmth over there," says P.C., pointing out the canoodling between two of the Caucasian Team's members.

Back to the Asian team, where Cao Boi is offering to cure Brad's "bad wind" headache.

"Is he threading that guys' brows?" asks Suyin, as Cao plucks at Brad's forehead. An angry red dot appears where Cao has been yanking.

"He just marked him," says Ursula.

"I think he opened up his third eye," I say.

After the successful curing of Brad's headache, Yul moderates his original opinion of Cao Boi as a "crazy kook."

"A crazy what?" I say, typing furiously.

Anna Liza snickers. "You totally thought he said 'gook.'"

Finally, Jeff Probst announces the centerpiece of the program: The immunity challenge.

"Jeff Probst hates his life," says Shii-Ann.

"What was he doing before he started hosting this show?" asks Suyin.

"Nothing. He had no life," says Shii-Ann.

The challenge involves putting together a "puzzle boat," rowing it out to a floating brazier, and bringing fire back to an altar, which can only be ascended after another puzzle is completed.

"Oh, the puzzle boat," says Shii-Aann.

"Gotta go with the Asians on this one," says Ursula.

"Asians, come on! Why else are you playing all that Minesweeper on your Blackberries?" says Suyin. "They might as well just make the immunity challenge a set of SAT questions."

The Asians come in second on the boat assembly and paddling part of the race; now comes the final puzzle, and possible victory.

"This is the Rubik's Cube part of the challenge, so we're going to win this," says Anna Liza.

"That guy Yul is like, 'I have a PowerPoint that addresses this situation,'" says Suyin.

Asians win, with Latinos just behind. There's much hooting, hollering, and celebrating among the unexpectedly engrossed members of our audience.

"We rule the world!" shouts Suyin.

"Oh, no, now it's whites versus blacks for last place," says Shii-Ann.

"This is so wrong," says Anna Liza.

"I can just see the blogs tomorrow," says Shii-Ann. "This is so bad."

"I can't watch anymore," says Suyin. "Even if I didn't have anything else to do, I'd pretend I had something else to do."

Nevertheless, we watch until the end, mesmerized. The African-American team, as losers of the challenge, must vote off one of their own; however, they also get to "exile" one member of another tribe to a solitary island -- and pick the chicken-stealing guy from the white team -- even citing it as the reason for their choice. (What did I tell you? Karma's a bitch, dude.)

Over dessert, Survivor guilt sets in. My friends discuss their concern that this gathering, though tongue in cheek, and surrounded with real and interesting discussion around the issues raised by the show, is being replicated across the country -- possibly with less irony and self-awareness. "I think the worst thing about the show isn't what's happening onscreen, it's what's happening to us," says Ursula. "Cheering for our race to win, yay! It's kind of ugly."

"But it's hard to say it's not good TV," says P.C. "You can't help but gravitate towards this. I know that I'm always rooting for the one Asian person on 'The Apprentice.'"

"Even if her skirt's too short," says Ursula.

"Until she starts acting all crazy and becomes an embarrassment, then I'm totally rooting for her to get kicked off," amends P.C.

"The thing is, here we are having a talk about identitiy and race, and for that reason alone, I think this should be on TV," says Shii-Ann. "Yeah, it has some real problems with it, and if all the people of one race get voted off early, there'll be a big uproar, but it's better than just ignoring race and pretending we're all one big happy family with no problems. The racists are going to be racist whether this show exists or not. Do you think people came out of 'Crash' saying, 'Oh my God, I never realized, there are race issues in America"?"

Good point. And with that, our tribal council disbanded. As Shii-Ann prepared to leave, she thanked me for organizing the party. "It was a lot of fun," she said. "But I'm not going to forgive you for one thing: You got me hooked on the damn show again. Now I feel like I have to watch the rest of this stupid season."

Jeff Yang forecasts new Asian and Asian American consumer trends for the market research company Iconoculture www.iconoculture.com. He is the author of "Once Upon a Time in China: A Guide to the Cinemas of Hong Kong, Taiwan and Mainland China" (Atria Books) and co-author of "I Am Jackie Chan: My Life in Action" (Ballantine) and "Eastern Standard Time" (Mariner/Houghton Mifflin). He lives in New York City. Go to www.ouatic.com/mojomail/mojo.pl to join Jeff Yang's biweekly mailing list offering updates on this column and alerts about other breaking Asian and Asian American pop-culture news.

[lycheng]

^^ Thanks for posting that. I agree the first show wasn't that bad. It was quite entertaining, actually.

lycheng

[yoMAMA]

Holy.

Just read the resume of one of the cast:



http://www.cbs.com/primetime/survivor13/survivors/bio_yul.shtml


Stanford
Yale Law
McKinsey


...!


I know....

that dude is hardcore.

a dream son for every asian parent.
:biggrin:



It just seems odd to me that someone that driven to hit all those specific career stepping stones would be on a reality TV show.

i guess just for the heck of it.

you know the cliche-

you only live once.

:biggrin:

[SunWuKong]

The challenge involves putting together a "puzzle boat," rowing it out to a floating brazier, and bringing fire back to an altar, which can only be ascended after another puzzle is completed.

"Oh, the puzzle boat," says Shii-Aann.

"Gotta go with the Asians on this one," says Ursula.

"Asians, come on! Why else are you playing all that Minesweeper on your Blackberries?" says Suyin. "They might as well just make the immunity challenge a set of SAT questions."

The Asians come in second on the boat assembly and paddling part of the race; now comes the final puzzle, and possible victory.

"This is the Rubik's Cube part of the challenge, so we're going to win this," says Anna Liza.

"That guy Yul is like, 'I have a PowerPoint that addresses this situation,'" says Suyin.

Asians win, with Latinos just behind. There's much hooting, hollering, and celebrating among the unexpectedly engrossed members of our audience.

hahhah that was basically what i was thinking when i found out there were puzzles to solve on the challenge.

[Tao]

i liked the casting for the asian tribe, especially for the guys. no effeminate male stereotypes here!

[yoMAMA]

i liked the casting for the asian tribe, especially for the guys. no effeminate male stereotypes here!


i know!

that korean lawyer dude is buff.

[returntosender]

well, u got the nail salon manager and then you got the gay dude...

[Thanol]

i liked the casting for the asian tribe, especially for the guys. no effeminate male stereotypes here!
Well, we do have a gay guy fashion designer, but I guess that kind of comes with the gay fashion designer part. :biggrin:

[Tao]

i was wondering why cao boi kept on making those asian jokes even though everyone else kept on tellling him to stop with the stereotypes....seems weird to me how he seems to want to bond to the group even though it's really obvious the other 4 hate his jokes.

[Russ]

In the extended show clips you can watch Yul's full interview about his first day at camp.

link (http://www.cbs.com/innertube/index.php?src=email&vid=114308&format=rm|wmv)

He says he's trying to keep his strong resume secret from the rest of his tribe. Good move.

[yoMAMA]

i was wondering why cao boi kept on making those asian jokes even though everyone else kept on tellling him to stop with the stereotypes....seems weird to me how he seems to want to bond to the group even though it's really obvious the other 4 hate his jokes.

cao boi looks like ho chi min.

[ahsingjai]

What happen to the chinese?

[Deadpool]

What happen to the chinese?

If they had to make it fair. Or else Asian team would win everything.

[returntosender]

i thinks he means give chinese their own race?

[ahsingjai]

If they had to make it fair. Or else Asian team would win everything.

lol. Final challenge is ping pong or badminton.

i thinks he means give chinese their own race?

No, I mean its only Korean, Viet, and Flip.

[jkygogo]

Hi, I don't know about you, but on upcoming Scene from Survivor, the Asian team seemed to be buying into the politically correct side and goody two shoes side when it seemed the "hippy" Asian guy was being out there and they didn't want to participate in the joking and fun. I don't know what the joke was about and I'll judge whether it was good or bad, but I was disappointed that we again have to see some Asian people who are a little "uptight" and "conservative" and don't want to be out there. It just kind of buys back into that stereotype that I wish we could get away from a little.
Don't get me wrong, I think it's great these Asian people are strong and courageous to do this, but I just wish we didn't have to see this stereotypical side come out again. I think it's good to be politically correct and good when the situation calls for it regardless of race or color of skin. But I was a little disappointed and annoyed that some of these Asian people were acting that way and solidifying that perception to other people out there. It's good to be appropriate in your actions, but it's also good to get more outrageous and outgoing and think and act "out of the box" too when the situation calls for it. Again, I'll wait to see the whole situation and decide for myself whether or not the "hippy" guy was right or wrong.

What do you people think?

Thanks.

[rice cracker]

Merged threads.

[returntosender]

Hi, I don't know about you, but on upcoming Scene from Survivor, the Asian team seemed to be buying into the politically correct side and goody two shoes side when it seemed the "hippy" Asian guy was being out there and they didn't want to participate in the joking and fun. I don't know what the joke was about and I'll judge whether it was good or bad, but I was disappointed that we again have to see some Asian people who are a little "uptight" and "conservative" and don't want to be out there. It just kind of buys back into that stereotype that I wish we could get away from a little.
Don't get me wrong, I think it's great these Asian people are strong and courageous to do this, but I just wish we didn't have to see this stereotypical side come out again. I think it's good to be politically correct and good when the situation calls for it regardless of race or color of skin. But I was a little disappointed and annoyed that some of these Asian people were acting that way and solidifying that perception to other people out there. It's good to be appropriate in your actions, but it's also good to get more outrageous and outgoing and think and act "out of the box" too when the situation calls for it. Again, I'll wait to see the whole situation and decide for myself whether or not the "hippy" guy was right or wrong.

What do you people think?

Thanks.

I think you're being uptight.

[rice cracker]

I think regardless of how reluctant the contestants are to reinforce stereotypes, it's going to happen unwittingly from time to time. Shit just happens. How many stereotypes about young vs. old have they already ground in? Class stereotypes? Let's not even get started on the other tribes. Jeeeeeeesus wept (with laughter :)).

[Tao]

Hi, I don't know about you, but on upcoming Scene from Survivor, the Asian team seemed to be buying into the politically correct side and goody two shoes side when it seemed the "hippy" Asian guy was being out there and they didn't want to participate in the joking and fun. I don't know what the joke was about and I'll judge whether it was good or bad, but I was disappointed that we again have to see some Asian people who are a little "uptight" and "conservative" and don't want to be out there. It just kind of buys back into that stereotype that I wish we could get away from a little.
Don't get me wrong, I think it's great these Asian people are strong and courageous to do this, but I just wish we didn't have to see this stereotypical side come out again. I think it's good to be politically correct and good when the situation calls for it regardless of race or color of skin. But I was a little disappointed and annoyed that some of these Asian people were acting that way and solidifying that perception to other people out there. It's good to be appropriate in your actions, but it's also good to get more outrageous and outgoing and think and act "out of the box" too when the situation calls for it. Again, I'll wait to see the whole situation and decide for myself whether or not the "hippy" guy was right or wrong.

What do you people think?

Thanks.
i think you have to put it into context. like take the first episode for example. like right off the bat cao boi made an asian joke about how they should be able to get to shore faster cause asians are small, and that was before he even knew their names, let alone their personalities. and things continued like this for a while, like he's a bit socially awkward like that. certain people when they think they aren't accepted by ppl from their group actually exacerbate the problem by being more outlandish, which i think is cao boi's problem. like he's trying to reach out to his peers by cracking jokes that he thinks are funny, the problem is most of the other's arent familiar with him enough, or know him better than what the first impressions are, so it gradually makes it harder and harder for the others to accept him.

like personally i think had cao boi not come off the boat (literally) blasting asian jokes, and just played it cool for a few days, his jokes woulda been met with some laughter.

[Napoleon Chynamite]

Yea I think Rice Cracker is right...reinforcing stereotypes isn't exactly something that people can help especially if say, the Asian guy actually happens to be good at math or know kung fu or whatever. At the same time, I think a lot of us have agreed that what's important is broad representation rather than seeking to completely eliminate the presence of stereotypical depictions of Asian people (the fact that this would be nearly impossible aside). There's nothing wrong in itself with Asian characters or public figures that fit into these categories. The problem is that there's no Asian people being represented in all of the other ones and from all walks of life with differing opinions, personalities, interests, strengths, weaknesses, physical appearances, and so on.

[jkygogo]

to be honest, I have yet to see the second episode. I just am saying that there's a stereotype that Asian people are very uptight and not as loud and aggressive and very politically correct and don't like to rock to boat. It seemed from the clip I saw last week that by the Asian members not wanting to have fun with what the "hippy" Asian guy was joking about it seemed to me they were fulfilling that trait that in a way is somewhat negative trait. I just hope they don't totally fulfill this stereotype. I know in whatever race there is, there are some who are politically correct and everyone is different and no one is the same. I just hope they don't totally fulfill this stereotype and are more aggressive and outgoing and not as politically correct. I hope some of the Asian people can act out of the box in their own way. That's what I was trying to say.

Thanks.

[SunWuKong]

i actually wasn't aware that there's an "uptight Asian" stereotype. non-confrontational, maybe. but in my opinion that's more of a fact than a stereotype.

[Arex]

What's wrong with being politically correct?

[rice cracker]

What's wrong with being politically correct?

Seriously. It seems like people like to throw that one out when they know they've just shown their ass. "OMG you're too PC!" like, after they've just told me Asian women like being mail order brides.

[SunWuKong]

people nowadays use the term "politically correct" to justify asshole behaviour. they say whatever the fuck they want and they're not supposed to be racist, they're just not PC. it's stupid.

not being PC means you say things like "black people" as opposed to "African American", or "Congressmen" as opposed to "Congressperson". not being PC does not mean you say "chink" as opposed to "Asian". not being PC does not mean you can make whatever racist joke you want and try to pass it off as an unPC joke.

[haplesshobo]

Yeah, but... what is he doing there?

Simply put, if he works for ... <insert several top firms here>, he would be a what? 5th? 6th? 7th? year associate?

He can't be there for the money.

It just seems odd to me that someone that driven to hit all those specific career stepping stones would be on a reality TV show.

I'm surprised he's on the show, with all those accomplishments in his pocket. Not just in terms of the money, but where he's even finding the time to do this given all his responsiblities. If he just started his own consulting firm, you'd think he would too busy starting that up to spend up to three months on a island where he would have no access to the outside world.

Maybe, he's on the show as a steppingstone into politics, to get his name out there? Maybe, five years ago, being on a reality TV show would be the kiss of death for aspirations like that but these days it might actually help. He's already worked with Leiberman before, so that indicates some interest in that field.

[TB4000]

Everyone is on the show to get their name out there. You can be wealthy , but publicity will always help.

[Fireblade]

Everyone is on the show to get their name out there. You can be wealthy , but publicity will always help.

or as shown in past survivor shows, there to get known so they can go get ass.

[jkygogo]

So some of you don't see being non-confrontational as a negative trait that is usually given to ASian American people? You seem to not have a problem with being called Politcally Correct as a trait of Asian American people. I'm kind of disappointed in that. That's why there has been so many examples of Asian girls who don't date Asian male because they consider them too docile or non-confrontational and too plain.
Me being an Asian person, I take it as insulting that alot of people think of Asian people as docile or non confrontational or too laid back. Don't you people see this as a negative trait? If you don't, I can't say anything, because that's your opinion, but I take it as a negative trait to have. To me, in a way, it's a sign of weakness. I'm not saying it's good to joke about racial talk like Cao Boi did, but in a crazy way, at least he broke the stereotype of Asian people being too politically correct or laid back or boring.
What do you people think?

Thanks.

[jkygogo]

I'm glad Cao Boi is being Outspoken and Loud which helps to break the perception that Asian people are too laid back or non confrontational or too politically correct or too quiet. Good for him. I'm not saying I agree with his joking about race that he did tonight even though it is within his own race. But in a crazy way, I'm glad he is being seen as loud, outgoing, ballsey (did I spell that right), and controversial. It helps to break the walls down a bit to others.

Good for him

Peace.:wink:

[haplesshobo]

Damn you, Survivor. You used this stupid hook, and its got me hooked watching the show again. That's two victories in a row for the asians, and Yul's got that secret immunity. Although, you just know the show is going to stop using puzzles now once the asian tribe starts to dominate the game.

[SunWuKong]

So some of you don't see being non-confrontational as a negative trait that is usually given to ASian American people? You seem to not have a problem with being called Politcally Correct as a trait of Asian American people. I'm kind of disappointed in that. That's why there has been so many examples of Asian girls who don't date Asian male because they consider them too docile or non-confrontational and too plain.
Me being an Asian person, I take it as insulting that alot of people think of Asian people as docile or non confrontational or too laid back. Don't you people see this as a negative trait? If you don't, I can't say anything, because that's your opinion, but I take it as a negative trait to have. To me, in a way, it's a sign of weakness. I'm not saying it's good to joke about racial talk like Cao Boi did, but in a crazy way, at least he broke the stereotype of Asian people being too politically correct or laid back or boring.
What do you people think?

Thanks.


but he's perpetuating the stereotype that Asians speak English with an accent, own nail salons, and are skinny!

if you look hard enough you're going to see a stereotype in almost anybody. i'm already happy that the Asian tribe isn't a bunch of nerds with no social skills. Cao Boi seems like a cool guy, but he's trying too hard to be the one-man stereotype breaking machine. and i'd probably laugh at his jokes, but i'm not sure how they're supposed to be better for Asian representation. there are a hundred different ways to be a person that can laugh and is not uptight.

anyway, i think if he doesn't tone it down, he's going to be voted out when the Asian tribe loses a challenge. the way that the show has portrayed the Asian tribe, the only member that the others have a problem with so far is Cao Boi.

[Napoleon Chynamite]

Being politically correct does not equate to being docile or passive. What the hell. Of course one can always be overly PC to the point of being annoying, and there are plenty of docile and passive people that are also PC, but that's beside the point.

[snailpoo]

The two aren't mutually exclusive. My posts are PC, but I'm hardly docile.

[Napoleon Chynamite]

or as shown in past survivor shows, there to get known so they can go get ass.

Yea but one would think that if they were already rich, getting ass would be no problem~

[Dimeron]

Yea but one would think that if they were already rich, getting ass would be no problem~

or looking like the way he is. Damn, I wish i was as good looking as him.

[power puff girl]

i wouldn't get our hopes up too soon for yul, with his succesful background and education, given what we know about the way mark burnett has historically edited the minorities on his show. there was a black harvard law school student who was also in ROTC at the same time but the show edited him to look very lazy and shifty, continuing a pattern where the blacks were portrayed in negative stereotypical fashion. if we were talking about a scripted show, which these reality shows really are, then we wouldn't allow such horrible stereotypes to play out on the small screen.

i wouldn't be surprised if its edited in the end where yul turns out to be sneaky and dishonest, feeding into negative asian stereotypes. and, at home, the american audience will just shake their heads and say something along the lines, 'i knew you couldn't trust that jap.'

[Faithless]

I've watched probably about five minutes of the show between the last two episodes. Cutting down on TV and read more books.

It's good to see the Asian dude has a huge advantage.

Wonder what his "hot or not" factor is. He does have a strong body.

What did he do to his nose? Looks like Pippin.

[haplesshobo]

or looking like the way he is. Damn, I wish i was as good looking as him.

Maybe, I'm in the minority, but I wouldn't call Yul that good looking. He's got a good body with great abs, but I would call his face kinda like a butterface. I would rank J.P. and Brad as better looking than Yul.

[SunWuKong]

I've watched probably about five minutes of the show between the last two episodes. Cutting down on TV and read more books.

It's good to see the Asian dude has a huge advantage.

Wonder what his "hot or not" factor is. He does have a strong body.

What did he do to his nose? Looks like Pippin.

Yul has quite the female following on televisionwithoutpity.com.

[Napoleon Chynamite]

Maybe, I'm in the minority, but I wouldn't call Yul that good looking. He's got a good body with great abs, but I would call his face kinda like a butterface. I would rank J.P. and Brad as better looking than Yul.

What's a butterface:confused: Well he's got really masculine features, like a rugged overall appearance, prominent jaw, brow, cheekbones, etc. for better or worse depending on personal tastes~

[Faithless]

Yul has quite the female following on televisionwithoutpity.com.
Geez, just how many reality tv forums are there?

Seems like the mix of nice looks and personality wins with some of those forum posters. I agree on the "don't become a jerk" comments. Unless something changes, he seems to have his head together. Even when he found that immunity idol, he declared a modest, "Yes."

[proazn]

We shouldn't segregate based on race. But I am loving this new Survivor Series. Because without this new format of racial tribes, we would be seeing 19 white people and one token black person. So, i'm all for this asian/hispanic/black/white groupings. Finally, a Survivor series i could watch! and i know plenty of other people watching it too.
if you don't want to watch this Survivor series, you're probably against minorities. boo.


Survivor Cook Island ep01 (highlights of Cao Boi and others)
http://www.youtube.com/v/HL8efc0SOHk

Survivor Cook Islands ep02 (highlights of Yul and others)
http://www.youtube.com/v/BF_TrQB3B2c

[Russ]

Geez, just how many reality tv forums are there?
The other big one is fansofrealitytv.com. It's not as hard edge as TWOP, but the people who write the show recaps are hilarious.

[SunWuKong]

Survivor Cook Island ep01 (highlights of Cao Boi and others)
http://www.youtube.com/v/HL8efc0SOHk

Survivor Cook Islands ep02 (highlights of Yul and others)
http://www.youtube.com/v/BF_TrQB3B2c

did somebody put these together? and will you (or somebody) keep posting these recaps up?

[SunWuKong]

HAHHAHHA! Mad TV parody:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRBSMhVTQu0

[Faithless]

The other big one is fansofrealitytv.com. It's not as hard edge as TWOP, but the people who write the show recaps are hilarious.
If that's the same one I'm thinking of, they don't like to be controversial, especially from noob posters. :frown:

[Russ]

Oh man, that dude Billy who got voted out on the last show is getting killed on the reality TV forums. That had to be one of the weirdest Survivor moments ever when he tells Jeff at tribal council about the "love at first sight" connection he made with Candice from the other tribe at the end of the immunity challenge. It was a huge misread of what she actually said to him. That should be one hell of an interesting reunion show when this gets rehashed.

[SunWuKong]

Oh man, that dude Billy who got voted out on the last show is getting killed on the reality TV forums. That had to be one of the weirdest Survivor moments ever when he tells Jeff at tribal council about the "love at first sight" connection he made with Candice from the other tribe at the end of the immunity challenge. It was a huge misread of what she actually said to him. That should be one hell of an interesting reunion show when this gets rehashed.


yeah i'm glad they did vote him out because he turned out to be such a tool.

[ahsingjai]

I think he sign up for the wrong survivor. Heavy Metal Survivor...

[otter p.]

I can understand why the asian tribe doesn't like Coi Boi. But, I don't get why Yul would form an alliance with Becky and Brad, and leave Jenny out in the cold. It would be messed up if they did it cause she was pinay, and they didn't consider her to be an authentic asian.

[rice cracker]

I thought Brad is Filipino too?

[SunWuKong]

I can understand why the asian tribe doesn't like Coi Boi. But, I don't get why Yul would form an alliance with Becky and Brad, and leave Jenny out in the cold. It would be messed up if they did it cause she was pinay, and they didn't consider her to be an authentic asian.

it's possible that he just interacted better and/or more with Becky and Brad than he did with Jenny. there are so many hours of footage that the audience actually does not get to see.

[returntosender]

isn't jenny suppose to either be part corean or married to a corean according to her last name guzon-bae?

Plus, if there's someone with a perfect strategy, your best bet is with Yul. I think he's got something up his sleeve.

[SunWuKong]

well, the tribes merged into two tribes made up of an evenly distributed mixture from the four race-based tribes. the Asians ended up teaming with the whites to kick off a Latina. but Yul had to do some convincing with Cao Boi to swing his vote, who in turn convinced one of the white chicks to side with their bloc.

[haplesshobo]

Damn, why did they have to get rid of that smoldering hot Latina in that red hot bikini? OMG, there was that one scene when she was taking off that bandana around her waist as she wriggled out of it and we got a closeup...

Good thing Yul was there as it didn't seem Jonathan was making any traction with that white chick. But, really, Cao Boi and that flaky, hippie white chick are foolios to agree to that deal. When Candance comes back from Exile Island, they're going to be on the outside looking in and expendable.

All in all, now that the social experiment has ended, I think it was more or less a positive for minority representation. There was a such large number of minorities where it didn't fall into that same trap of having only one minority, where that minority became a tired cliche of sterotypes.

[returntosender]

i thought there were rumors that yul and cecilia were going to hook up?

[SunWuKong]

Good thing Yul was there as it didn't seem Jonathan was making any traction with that white chick. But, really, Cao Boi and that flaky, hippie white chick are foolios to agree to that deal. When Candance comes back from Exile Island, they're going to be on the outside looking in and expendable.

Cao Boi might be at risk just because i think he's a little too eccentric for everyone. but as long as he doesn't get on people's nerves too much, i think the Yul and Jonathan bloc will target the other people from the other bloc first, before they target Cao Boi or hippy white chick.

All in all, now that the social experiment has ended, I think it was more or less a positive for minority representation. There was a such large number of minorities where it didn't fall into that same trap of having only one minority, where that minority became a tired cliche of sterotypes.

oh no. the social experiment has just began. they gave the ethnic tribes a little time to bond and get to know each other, now they're mixing it up to see if people stick with their own races, when they're in situations where they interact with people of other races. note that in my last post, i said that the Asians and whites teamed up to kick off a Latina. all the votes came from the whites and the Asians. the blacks and the Latinos voted for Becky.

[haplesshobo]

Oh, I agree that Yul's alliance will go after that other block first. I'm just pointing out that Cao Boi and that hippy white chick would have been in a stronger position if they hadn't voted the way they did. They're going to be the first ones voted off after that other block gets eliminated.

Although, if I was Yul, I would see if I could get Ozzy to join the alliance rather than having to rely on Cao Boi or that white hippy chick next time. Those two are wildcards, and not somebody I'd feel comfortable trusting, especially the way that white hippy chick was wavering with her vote. Plus, I'd rather keep Ozzy than those two because he seems like a strong player who would help you win challenges and has outdoor skills which could benefit your tribe.

Personally, I think the whole race thing got overplayed in the media. I think the alliances we saw formed were because those players had gotten comfortable with each other in their respective tribes, tribes that had been specifically selected on race. If those players had been on 4 tribes, where we weren't splitting them up by race, I think we would have seen different alliances based on previous interactions on their tribes, not necessairly race.

[SunWuKong]

Personally, I think the whole race thing got overplayed in the media. I think the alliances we saw formed were because those players had gotten comfortable with each other in their respective tribes, tribes that had been specifically selected on race. If those players had been on 4 tribes, where we weren't splitting them up by race, I think we would have seen different alliances based on previous interactions on their tribes, not necessairly race.

yes, true. but the two blocs on the losing tribe right now are divided by race. and you have to ask, why did Yul try to swing Cao Boi? he hasn't really grown comfortable with Cao Boi. he's annoyed with Cao Boi after they spent time together. the more logical choice to swing would have been Sundra, because she was the only one on the new tribe that was unfamiliar with everybody else, being the only black member.

[haplesshobo]

But, if race was that paramount to tribal alliances, then Cao Boi and that white hippy chick would have been part of Yul and Jonathan's alliance from the very beginning. Instead of alligning with Cao Boi, their fellow asian, at the beginning, Yul and Becky decided to team up with the white alliance. Only after Candice got sent to Exile Island and suddenly they needed Cao Boi's vote, did Yul reach out to CB. If CB had been the odd man out, I think Yul and Becky would have voted him out.

As for why Yul went after CB instead of Sundra, I think he did probably did go after her except we weren't shown that. But, for whatever reasons, she felt more comfortable with one block vs. the other block. After that, CB was the logical choice to try to turn.

Cecilia was asked this same question why people voted along racial lines in this interviews(its also a good excuse to see her in that red bikini again):

http://asapblogs.typepad.com/theslug/2006/09/survivor_embrac.html

And, her answer was that it came down to knowing those people better, not necessairly race. After the merger, they had less than 24 hours to get to know each other. It was a case of sticking with the devil you knew vs. the devil you didn't know. By sticking to your old tribes, you were dealing with known quantities and knew what to expect. If given more time to know each other, it might have swung differntly.

Yul has quite the female following on televisionwithoutpity.com.


Probably because he hasn't been an ass like JP so far. JP looks like a younger Dr. Christian Troy from Nip/Tuck, and I would have thought the female viewers would have fallen over themselves for him instead. But, once he opened his mouth, he kinda blew it.

I don't think Yul ends up winning it, despite the immunity idol.

First of all, the strongest players usually don't win it all because they're targeted by the weaker, jealous players. Yul has already been singled out as a dangerous threat from the very beginning.

And, I read a quote where Yul said that some move might not be the best stategically, but that he wanted to play this game with integrity. One of the reasons I saw Yul as a potential politician because he seems so self-conscious about what he says and the image he's projecting. To play this game, sometimes you've got to be devious and do bad things in the name of the game. Yul has a succesful life outside this game, and I don't know if he would be willing to risk damaging his image for this game.

[Russ]

Last night's show saw a pretty gutsy power-play by Jenny to suddenly take control of her tribe. One of the other women looked to be on the chopping block for the evening's tribal council vote, but then Jenny secretly worked to put together a female alliance to vote out one of the Latino males, J.P. Her pitch was that this would be the final time that the women would have a numbers advantage. She even brought over Brad, the other asian-american on her tribe, as an insurance vote. In the end it worked out perfectly because J.P. never even saw it coming.

[haplesshobo]

This week, we saw racial alliances fall give way to gender alliances, and even gender alliances weren't that strong as some of the guys voted against JP. We saw latino polic officer vote against her former latino tribemember, JP, and we saw Nate vote against his former black tribal member.

The girls vote made sense for them individually, but I'm not so sure it was in the best interests of the tribe or for Parvarti either. Since she was approached last, she doesn't appear to be tight with the women. It would have made more sense for her to allign with the men, especially since she has that bond with Nate, and voted Sundra off instead of JP. JP was one of the stronger players out there, and choosing to vote him off instead of Sundra is only going to make their team weaker and more likely to lose to the other tribes in those challenges. For that women's alliance to hold, that means they need to keep on voting out the men whenever they lose, which only weakens the team and makes it more likely to lose again.

[Seraphfire]

Starting a new thread just to discuss enjoyment of the show. I have to admit, I started watching because I wanted to see about the race based angle uproar. But now that that is pretty much over I find the show entertaining.

Last night's episode was freaking awesome. I never thought a reality show would have me cheering so hard for some reality contestants.

This is why; the contestants were offered a chance to mutiny from their tribe and join the other one. I am told no one has ever accepted before. Well, this time the two white contestants did (being white seemed to be an issue as one white contestant stated he wanted to see an all Caucasian final 4. Also, the 4 white contestants start voting off all the minorities in this and later episodes so it is rumored.) So the remaining rainbow 4 were left stunned and feeling betrayed.

But instead of tucking tail,they mowed down the bigger tribe in the challenges! Can't believe how much I wanted them to win. Well if you've been following the show you probably felt the same as many fans forums have opined.

Go rainbow 4! Yul, Becky, Ozzy and Sundra!

[SunWuKong]

most of the members of the bigger tribe seem like asshats anyway. i was definitely cheering for the smaller tribe. and both Ozzy and Yul are very strong players. Ozzy is like freaking jungle boy.

i'm just disappointed they didn't vote off Jonathan. Brad really should have kept his mouth shut about not trusting his teammates. that just sends a red flag.

[bluemonq]

I'm thinking "Lord of the Flies" writ large.

[Seraphfire]

Brad said he regrets he didn't mutiny. Said he was tight with Yul and Becky but I guess we wanted to save that alliance secret for the merger. Funny thing is while Nate saw the threat of Brad allying with Yul and Becky because of racial reasons and totally, totally missed the formation of the white alliance under his nose. Same goes for Rebecca and Jenny, they all should have forced the issue of voting of Jonathon now rather than later. To their demise I think...

Spoiler Alert:
Because I believe in the next episode, the white alliance (being unstoppable) shows their true colors and votes off 2 more minorities.

[SunWuKong]

Brad said he regrets he didn't mutiny. Said he was tight with Yul and Becky but I guess we wanted to save that alliance secret for the merger. Funny thing is while Nate saw the threat of Brad allying with Yul and Becky because of racial reasons and totally, totally missed the formation of the white alliance under his nose. Same goes for Rebecca and Jenny, they all should have forced the issue of voting of Jonathon now rather than later. To their demise I think...


yeah i was dissappointed Nate didn't want to vote for Jonathan. but he hadn't spent any time with Jonathan at all so he probably didn't know that Jonathan could be a serious competitor in terms of political maneuvering. i really think Brad made some bad moves though, especially with not doing the swimming in that challenge in the episode before the last, and just coming out saying that he didn't trust anybody in his tribe. plus, from the footage they showed, it didn't look like he made any effort to get in on an alliance at all.

they seriously need to get rid of Jonathan, and i hope they do in the next episode. the white people aren't as tight as you would think. Candice doesn't like Jonathan and manipulated Adam into hating Jonathan's guts. i'm hoping Candice will manipulate everybody else into voting off Jonathan. Parvati is sort of playing her own game and i don't think she'll necessarily ally with Jonathan. one thing we know is that Parvati wants to use flirtation to get her way, but Jonathan is married. she probably knows she could form a tighter alliance with Nate and Adam. the whole idea of having the white people be the final four is basically Jonathan's own idea.

we'll have to see.

[SunWuKong]

Aitu wins again!!!

[Thanol]

I remember after the first episode people were saying how the Whites bonded the least over their race. How ironic that the only race based alliance is the White one. But if Raro looses again, I don't think Jonathan will last. He seems to be the only one really pushing it.

[haplesshobo]

Shouldn't this thread be merged with the other Survivor thread?

In some ways, I think this double elimination stregthens Raro by getting rid of its weaker players. In these challenges, Raro had been really stupid by not keeping its strongest players for the IC, and instead diluting its strength where some of their stronger players were competing for the food prize and the rest of the stronger players were competing for IC.

And, for somebody who made homophobic slurs, questioning Brad's manhood, I think its entertaining to see Nate suck so much in the swimming challenges.

But, Jenny was certainly pissed about getting voted off. I think she flipped her tribe off as she was leaving.

[Seraphfire]

I thought it was funny how Candice basically gave up during the RC and whined, "I am going to Exile." Karma is a bitch lady.

Brad mentioned on one of his post boot interviews how the white tribe finally gets theirs. Which makes me think Nate is next to go since he was totally out of the loop on the Jenny vote (even though it was a surprise.)

The poor Yul sandwich! OMG, I was laughing hysterically.

[SunWuKong]

i fear Nate will be targetted next if they do not merge, and if Jonathan can sell his "all white" strategy. and in a lot of ways, Nate is just as dumb as Adumb.

i really wanted Jonathan gone, but i understand why they targetted Rebecca. Raro has lost a lot of challenges and it seems that Rebecca has been one of the least performing in challenges. then Jennie just made a strategic mistake by letting Adumb know that she is concerned about how close he and Candice are. Jennie should have just tried to get Candice to join the existing alliance and they could have all casted their second vote for Jonathan.

either way, i think even if Jonathan made it to the final two, he will not win. he essentially dug his own grave when he explicitly said that he wanted the final 4 to be the whites. the jury is going to have more non-whites than whites in the end. i don't think people are going to like that he tried to get this strategy going while he was still in Aitu and in alliance with Yul, Becky, and Sundra.

[SunWuKong]

I thought it was funny how Candice basically gave up during the RC and whined, "I am going to Exile." Karma is a bitch lady.

yeah i got a kick out of that. first Parvati said, "how do they keep doing that?" then Candice said, "man, i don't want to go to exile."

[Seraphfire]

If the merge is the next episode I am sure Jonathan is going to be targeted by Aitu for a flip. Yul is smart and he knows Jonathan is most interested in his own survival. Someone posted this funny observation:

Do you guys remember at the end of The Godfather when Tom Hagen expressed surprise to Michael Corleone that it was Tessio and not Clemenza who turned traitor?

Tom: I always thought it would've been Clemenza, not Tessio...

Michael: It's a smart move -- Tessio was always smarter.

In the same vein, Jonathan is way smarter and I am pretty sure it will be Jonathan who is going to flip and not Nate. Nate said he won't betray his "family." Whereas Jonathan is the "Wandering Jew without a Tribe."
So I can see Nate staying loyal and oblivious.

[SunWuKong]

If the merge is the next episode I am sure Jonathan is going to be targeted by Aitu for a flip. Yul is smart and he knows Jonathan is most interested in his own survival.

the "next week preview" made it seem like Jonathan is losing his patience and expressing his impatience. if he bitches out the other tribe members, he'll definitely be targetted. Nate does have a strong standing with Raro, but Jonathan has surprised me by still being there. i think it'll come down to whether or not Jonathan can sway the other Raro members against Nate.

So I can see Nate staying loyal and oblivious.

yeah, when he gets voted out, whenever that may be, he would be completely blind-sided.

[Banana]

I have no idea how this game works. It would be far more interesting if they just beat each other to death with clubs on an island.

Wait, I just got a really cool idea for a show...

[Russ]

In these challenges, Raro had been really stupid by not keeping its strongest players for the IC, and instead diluting its strength where some of their stronger players were competing for the food prize and the rest of the stronger players were competing for IC.
Exactly. During the end of the IC when Rebecca's struggling to bring in the last bag for Raro and Adam's sitting as a spectator, I'm thinking, "what's wrong with this picture?" Why did they consider the reward challenge so important that they would risk not having a strong advantage in the IC? It's not like