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View Full Version : Pastor that supported marriage ballot ousted after gay prostitute outs him


haplesshobo
11-05-2006, 06:25 AM
Just a 'massage'.... Sure, if we're talking one with a happy ending.

Church ousts pastor for 'immoral' acts
After resigning as head of a national evangelical group, Ted Haggard is removed from his New Life leadership post.

DENVER — An investigative committee of independent pastors concluded "without a doubt" on Saturday that the Rev. Ted Haggard had committed "sexually immoral conduct" and removed him from his duties as senior pastor at a mega-church in Colorado Springs, Colo.

The committee's decision took away Haggard's last position of church leadership — and cast doubt on his assertion that he had visited a male prostitute for a massage but never had sex with him.

Last week, Haggard resigned from the presidency of the 30-million member National Assn. of Evangelicals under allegations that he had a three-year sexual relationship with the man. Haggard also has said that he bought methamphetamine from the prostitute but did not use it.

The statement from New Life Church's investigative committee did not list the evidence the group considered. But the strong wording left little doubt that Haggard's conduct involved more than an illegal drug buy.

"It's not just about meth. It's not just about a massage. I guess that's what we are to infer," said the Rev. Richard Cizik, vice president of governmental affairs for the evangelical association.

"We all have to be humble and recognize that people — even our leaders — have feet of clay," Cizik said. "So we love. And we forgive."

A letter of explanation and apology from Haggard will be read at New Life services today. His wife of 28 years, Gayle Haggard, will also address the congregation. The couple have five children.

Haggard, 50, built the church after he said he experienced a vision during a three-day solitary fast on Pikes Peak, the majestic mountain that soars above Colorado Springs. Given to visions — he says he can see demons, and he sometimes speaks in tongues — Haggard preached his first sermon in his unfinished basement on a cold morning in January 1985. His pulpit was a stack of old buckets. His pews were lawn chairs.

From the start, the church — and its leader — broke the mold.

Haggard led ebullient worship services filled with song and dance; he prayed over names in the phone book; he sent his members out walking through Colorado Springs with instructions to pray for specific parcels of land. He wrote a tract about his goals with the title "Making It Hard for People to Go to Hell From Your City."

Haggard's exuberance and inveterate optimism began attracting crowds, and New Life outgrew one space after another.

Nearly 22 years after that first service, the church has a congregation of 14,000 and a huge complex on the edge of Colorado Springs. Each Easter, the sanctuary is transformed into a theater for an extravagant passion play with a cast of hundreds, live animals, Cirque du Soleil-style acrobats portraying angels — and special effects worthy of Broadway.

Telegenic and proud of his accomplishments, Haggard welcomed reporters to the church campus (though he did send out a memo cautioning congregants to refrain from dancing in the aisles and speaking in "glassy-eyed heavenly mode" when TV cameras were rolling). His openness with the media only raised his profile further.

"He is probably one of the top five most prominent evangelicals in America and therefore in the world," said Ted Olsen, news director for the evangelical magazine Christianity Today. "Hardly a day went by where we did not see Haggard quoted by someone. It was pretty rare for him not to have an opinion."

Through their sorrow and bewilderment this past week, church members have been quick to say that the scandal will not bring down New Life — or shake their faith.

"This is a pruning, in a sense," said Patty VanTassel, 50. "New Life Church is not about Ted Haggard. It's about God … and rescuing people from sin."

Many others have repeated a variation of that line: We don't worship Ted Haggard; we worship God.

But Charles Chandler, who runs a support program for ousted preachers, said mega-churches like New Life sometimes put their pastors on a pedestal. The ministers are more than spiritual leaders; they're almost rock stars — their images beamed on enormous television screens as they preach, their books sold front and center in the lobby, their photos plastered across church websites.

"People almost put you on a throne," Chandler said. "You're vulnerable when that happens. You can take yourself too seriously."

In his group, Ministering to Ministers, Chandler has seen some pastors behave immorally in a gesture of what he calls "professional suicide."

"They can't handle the pressure, but they can't bring themselves to step down, so they do something stupid," he said. Others struggle with sexual or chemical addictions for years — and preach mightily about that very subject to try to cover up, Chandler said.

"They don't want to recognize that it's part of their life," said Chandler, who is based in Richmond, Va.

When caught, Chandler said, a minister's instinct often is not to confess, but to deny, as Haggard did when he was confronted with questions about the prostitute, Mike Jones. The pastor said at first that he did not know Jones. Later, after Jones released voice mail messages he said were from Haggard, the pastor acknowledged that he had visited the prostitute for a massage and bought methamphetamine from him.

The church's board of overseers said Saturday that they would "continue to explore the depth of Pastor Haggard's offense so that a plan of healing and restoration can begin."

Haggard's friends and followers are praying for that restoration. "God alone is judge, and he has the power to heal, restore and bring some good out of this," Cizik said. "It's hard to believe that there could be good of this. But that's a biblical promise."

yoMAMA
11-05-2006, 02:08 PM
Slhgm.

Faithless
11-05-2006, 03:43 PM
Haggard says he's guilty of "sexual immorality". Is he admitting to being gay or still blowing-off the allegations?

Rev. Ted Haggard Confesses: "I Am A Liar And A Deceiver"... (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2006/11/05/rev-ted-haggard-confesse_n_33307.html)

Posted November 5, 2006 12:17 PM
UPDATE: From The Denver Post:

In a letter of apology read to the congregation of New Life Church Sunday morning, Ted Haggard confessed to sexual immorality and described himself as "a deceiver and a liar"...

..."The accusations that have been leveled against me are not all true, but enough of them are true that I have been appropriately and lovingly removed from ministry," Haggard wrote...
Read the entire article here (http://www.denverpost.com/ci_4607865).

-----

CNN's Wolf Blitzer reported Sunday on Late Edition that the Rev. Ted Haggard, currently embroiled in a gay prostitution scandal, has admitted that he did have sex with an escort. Previously, Haggard had admitted to contacting the escort, but denied that any sex took place. Haggard reportedly said that he is "a deceiver and a liar, and admits "I am guilty of sexual immorality."

SunWuKong
11-05-2006, 04:08 PM
come on, he paid for the sex but didn't have the sex.

eos
11-05-2006, 05:02 PM
what a weird adjective to use: "lovingly removed from ministry"

that just gives me the image that he was gently folded up in tissue paper and put into a lavender-scented drawer.

plus, he already admits he's a deceiver AND a liar. when someone says that, you pretty much can't trust anything they say or do anymore. so this whole "i did not have sex with a male prostitute" means "yes, i had sex with a male prostitute, and it was goooooooood."

Yeahman
11-05-2006, 07:49 PM
plus, he already admits he's a deceiver AND a liar. when someone says that, you pretty much can't trust anything they say or do anymore.
Does that include Clinton?

In this case, we don't have the specifics. Maybe he paid for monthly sex with a guy while high on meth. Maybe he paid for meth, threw it out, and made out with the guy.

friedfishribs
11-05-2006, 10:38 PM
Too bad he couldn't just be openly gay. Seems like it would've solved a lot of problems if he was just a methodist.

Yeahman
11-05-2006, 10:50 PM
Official position of the UMC: "Since the practice of homosexuality is incompatible with Christian teaching, self-avowed practicing homosexuals are not to be accepted as candidates, ordained as ministers or appointed to serve in The United Methodist Church."

friedfishribs
11-05-2006, 11:04 PM
Interesting, the local methodist church here in Davis is openly supportive of homosexuals.

Edit: I just checked their local website, and they list themselves as a Reconciling Congregation. So they might not be affiliated with the UMC.

So homosexual christians should be cautious. Choose your churches carefully.

Yeahman
11-05-2006, 11:35 PM
Interesting, the local methodist church here in Davis is openly supportive of homosexuals.

Edit: I just checked their local website, and they list themselves as a Reconciling Congregation. So they might not be affiliated with the UMC.

So homosexual christians should be cautious. Choose your churches carefully.
That would apply if you believe that churches are purely man-made institutions. For Catholics and Orthodox, that's not an option. Gay Catholics tend to stay within the "one true Church", though they believe it to be flawed with inappropriate man-made rules. Andrew Sullivan is a prominent openly-gay practicing Catholic. It's possible.

friedfishribs
11-06-2006, 12:13 AM
But aren't there many different sects of Christianity? I suppose most of the Christians I know view a church as a man-made institution to reflect religious principles, as opposed to an ordained entity unto itself. Most of the Christians I know are protestant however.

eos
11-06-2006, 08:58 AM
Does that include Clinton?

In this case, we don't have the specifics. Maybe he paid for monthly sex with a guy while high on meth. Maybe he paid for meth, threw it out, and made out with the guy.

yes.

yes it does.

Yeahman
11-06-2006, 03:59 PM
But aren't there many different sects of Christianity? I suppose most of the Christians I know view a church as a man-made institution to reflect religious principles, as opposed to an ordained entity unto itself. Most of the Christians I know are protestant however.
I actually just finished watching an interesting debate between Former Governor McGreevey and Andrew Sullivan. Sullivan is still Catholic. McGreevey left the Catholic Church when he came out. Both are gay. No agreement. McGreevey was just asking Sullivan how he can stay in an oppressive church and Sullivan would reply by asking how McGreevey could possibly leave the Catholic Church.

friedfishribs
11-06-2006, 04:35 PM
It just seems like there are enough differing sects of Christianity to find one that suits your sexual orientation. It seems like Haggard would've been better off not surpressing his sexual identity. Though, I suppose there's an argument to be made for trying to rework an existing sect, but that can be attempted from outside of the oppressive system itself.

power puff girl
11-06-2006, 04:36 PM
what a self-hater. check out his self loathing in the film 'jesus camp'.

http://movies.yahoo.com/mv/news/ap/20061106/116285010000.html

Golden Monkey
11-07-2006, 11:11 AM
Here noted biologist and science writer Richard Dawkins talks with Ted Haggard.

Richard Dawkins Questions Evangelical Pastor

http://youtube.com/watch?v=gmNjfpoRZpE

otter p.
11-07-2006, 01:27 PM
http://movies.yahoo.com/mv/news/ap/20061106/116285010000.html

This was pretty funny:

Pastor Ted, they were so proud of him. They thought he was hip, young, he didn't have that stodgy James Dobson feel," Ewing said Monday, referring to the Focus on the Family founder. "They all really adored him, that's the first thing I thought those people, those faces, they hung and took notes on every word he said I can't imagine what those people must be feeling."

I don't know, how about liking him for something more than not being stodgy.:rolleyes:

There are plenty of reasons to try to distance oneself from James Dobson such as discredited theories about trying to 'cure' homoesexuality, his stance against interracial relationships, and countless more. Too bad, Pastor Ted seemed to share the same intolerances.

Bhodi_Li
11-09-2006, 07:32 PM
Here noted biologist and science writer Richard Dawkins talks with Ted Haggard.

Richard Dawkins Questions Evangelical Pastor

http://youtube.com/watch?v=gmNjfpoRZpEWow, noted aethist and critic of Creationism Richard Dawkins has a problem with Evangelical Christians. That's a news flash.

In fact, wasn't this a scene from Richard Dawkins documentary called The Root of All Evil (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Root_of_All_Evil%3F)? That documentary is described as "Dawkins argues that "the process of non-thinking called faith" is not a way of understanding the world." Dawkins later states:

For many people, part of growing up is killing off the virus of faith with a good strong dose of rational thinking. But if an individual doesn't succeed in shaking it off, his mind is stuck in a permanent state of infancy, and there is a real danger that he will infect the next generation.

I'm sure many YW'ers would agree with this comment, myself not being included in that group. This opinion taken into account, I hardly expect an objective portrayl of Haggard from our noted aethist.

Ted Haggard is not the first nor will he be the last person to stand up on a stage or a podium and profess one thing while doing the complete opposite of what he is preaching. Countless politicians, world leaders, and people of faith do this. I would guess that quite a few of us, ourselves, lead a hypocritical lifestyle, we're just not in the spotlight when we fall.

Why is it, we don't have the same level of outrage when a pop celebrity falls? What if that celebrity were to preach the virtues of abstinence? How about if they were involved in anti-drug campaigns?

SunWuKong
11-10-2006, 12:16 AM
Why is it, we don't have the same level of outrage when a pop celebrity falls? What if that celebrity were to preach the virtues of abstinence? How about if they were involved in anti-drug campaigns?

apples and oranges. now i'm not too up-to-date on what celebrities are doing, but are any of them advocating we should take away people's right to marriage if they have premarital sex or if they do drugs? and honestly, homosexuality is not some problem that needs to be solved. that's part of the fundamental problem with anti-gay rights campaigners.

for one thing people like Haggard are leaders of thousands of people. celebrities are not. but if you must make a comparison to celebrities though, the better comparison here would be, if a celebrity were to advocate that gay marriage should not be legalised, that homosexuality is disgusting, and/or that gay people need help becoming straight, etc etc - and we find him with a gay prostitute, would we be as hard on him? for example, if they find Mel Gibson having sex with a gay prostitute, would people be just as hard on him as they are on Haggard? i don't know about anybody else, but i certainly would be.

Faithless
11-15-2006, 06:39 PM
I was listening to this radio interview of Mike Jones. And he was explaining how Haggard supposedly contacted him.

Jones was saying how Haggard called asking to "hook up". Hook up? :biggrin: It's hard to imagine that religious prude using such a term.

power puff girl
02-07-2007, 05:18 PM
after three intensive weeks of counseling, haggard is now proclaiming he's "completely heterosexual". :rolleyes:

http://www.denverpost.com/ci_5164921

he's so far in the closet that he's finding last year's christmas presents.

Bhodi_Li
02-08-2007, 06:20 AM
after three intensive weeks of counseling, haggard is now proclaiming he's "completely heterosexual". :rolleyes: I find the whole "restorative therapy" to be really shaky. It just strikes me as a form of brain-washing that makes me uneasy about the process. I think it comes back to the debate of homosexuality being a lifestyle choice or being genetic.

VV o n g B a
02-08-2007, 10:18 AM
Why is it, we don't have the same level of outrage when a pop celebrity falls? What if that celebrity were to preach the virtues of abstinence? How about if they were involved in anti-drug campaigns?i'm not sure it's outrage so much as schadenfreude. it hits a pleasure center in my brain when a guy puts himself on a pedestal and tells ppl they'll go to hell for committing sins is exposed as committing those same sins himself.

celebs don't typically invoke godly righteousness in campaigns for things. they'll thank god for anything and everything related to their success, but thats about it.

a preacher who does something like this can't be punished legally even tho he has betrayed the confidence of all his followers and it shouldn't be. his punishment then can only be public and that is also as it should be. but he does deserve punishment. if he was going to do this, he shouldn't have become a preacher. just as watada shouldn't have joined the military.