Bush a 'moron'

[Craig]

http://straitstimes.asia1.com.sg/world/sto...,156717,00.html (http://straitstimes.asia1.com.sg/world/story/0,4386,156717,00.html)?

DAMAGE CONTROL BY CANADIAN PM
Communications chief calls Bush a 'moron'

OTTAWA - Prime Minister Jean Chretien was on Friday cleaning up following a diplomatic slip after his communications director called US President George W. Bush a 'moron', stirring up such a controversy that she offered to resign.

The Canadian media reported on Thursday that communications chief Francoise Ducros uttered the words, 'what a moron' while talking to a reporter about Mr Bush in a private conversation last week at the Nato summit in Prague.

Other reporters, who said they overheard the comment, wrote about it in newspapers published on Thursday, and opposition members in Parliament called for her resignation later in the day.

Mr Chretien, at a news conference on Friday in Prague, said Ms Ducros offered her resignation because of the furore but he had rejected it. He also said she had told him she was unsure if she had made the remark but acknowledged she used the word 'moron' frequently.

The swirl of embarrassing controversy also compelled Mr Chretien to announce that Mr Bush was his 'friend' and not a 'moron'.

But some opposition lawmakers still saw fit to call for Ms Ducros to be ousted.

'Is it not a fact that this anti-American attitude hurts our diplomatic relationships with the United States, our major trading partner?' asked the Canadian Alliance's Grant Hill.

The US has not commented on the remarks. After the remark was first reported, White House Press Secretary Ari Fleischer told American reporters: 'I just dismiss it as something from someone who doesn't speak for the Canadian government.'

[ren28]

:lol:

[ChairmanMah]

:lol: haha, i was hoping someone would post this topic.

The next thing he'll say is " Either you are with us or against us against Canada. "


Who needs the greedy yanks anyways.

[MellowDrama]

:o I love how the Canadian PM had to confirm that Bush was indeed, not a moron.

[VV o n g B a]

i wonder if stuff like that coming from foreign dignitaries is starting to get under his skin? :)

[Chris]

:lol: :lol: I love it ehheh it was totally so funny when I read about it.

[bwc]

shes right..he is a moron.

[angel nympho]

Originally posted by bwc@Nov 25 2002, 06:14 AM
shes right..he is a moron.
Some would say the same about you.

[bwc]

Originally posted by angel nympho@Nov 25 2002, 06:24 AM
Some would say the same about you.
right back at ya

[TyroneK(prettypretty)]

Fight! Fight! Fight!

Well, I always thought that Bush wasn't smart. I don't think he's a moron though. There's quite a difference.

Plus, there's something to be said for dumb presidents being the more "successful" ones. Well, at least successful in terms of staying in office. Carter? Smart & out in four years. Reagan? Dumb as a post. In for 8. Clinton? Smart but left no immediate political legacy and barely managed to keep himself in office.

Go figure.

[ChinaLama]

hey, kiddies, you can direct your flames at Bush or even at people-in-general-who-hate-or-love-Bush, but not to each other. Capische? <_<


BTW VB: JFK, was he smart? well he was SHOT. Nixon, may have been smart in a human-nature sense. Resigned. LBJ, smart as a politician, shamed by Vietnam. Ike Eisenhower, idiot in politicis, 8 very successful and high-approval years.

Just to prove your pt. :)

[angel nympho]

We may think he's an idiot or whatnot, but that should just be a lesson to the rest of us. Vote smarter next time.

[Danny]

The most important question has not been answered....

It's coming from Canada, who cares? :)

[Elizabeth A.]

Originally posted by Craig@Nov 23 2002, 02:52 PM
Communications chief calls Bush a 'moron'


What's this? An honest politician?

Now let me add this to my growing list of reasons to move to Canada.......

[TyroneK(prettypretty)]

Originally posted by ChinaLama@Nov 25 2002, 07:02 AM
BTW VB: JFK, was he smart? well he was SHOT. Nixon, may have been smart in a human-nature sense. Resigned. LBJ, smart as a politician, shamed by Vietnam. Ike Eisenhower, idiot in politicis, 8 very successful and high-approval years.

Just to prove your pt. :)
JFK was damn smart. He and Robert pretty much got all the brains out of that litter of kids.

More backup: Warren G. Harding & Calvin Coolidge. Not too bright. Both got to stay in office way too long. Herbert Hoover? Stanford educated engineer. Out in four.

FDR is pretty much an exception to the rule though. Still, I think my theory holds up pretty well.

[ChinaLama]

Originally posted by VBKao@Nov 25 2002, 07:38 PM
Originally posted by ChinaLama@Nov 25 2002, 07:02 AM
BTW VB: JFK, was he smart? well he was SHOT. Nixon, may have been smart in a human-nature sense. Resigned. LBJ, smart as a politician, shamed by Vietnam. Ike Eisenhower, idiot in politicis, 8 very successful and high-approval years.

Just to prove your pt. :)
JFK was damn smart. He and Robert pretty much got all the brains out of that litter of kids.

More backup: Warren G. Harding & Calvin Coolidge. Not too bright. Both got to stay in office way too long. Herbert Hoover? Stanford educated engineer. Out in four.

FDR is pretty much an exception to the rule though. Still, I think my theory holds up pretty well.
What about Wilson? Does he count as an exception to the rule as well?

I'm think Teddy would also qualify as being smart. But he was only ELECTED to one term-- they actually made him VP first to shut him up. I guess one can say Taft is smart; he can't be a complete idiot if he was appointed Supreme Court justice. But he only had one term.

[Arex]

Originally posted by angel nympho@Nov 25 2002, 10:15 AM
We may think he's an idiot or whatnot, but that should just be a lesson to the rest of us. Vote smarter next time.
Well, let's not forget that the majority of the voters in the U.S. DIDN'T vote this shmuck into office...=/

Alex

[TyroneK(prettypretty)]

Well, Wilson did have that stroke in his second term and became a vegetable. His wife was basically running the country from then on. She'd walk out of the oval office, say "the president wants _____" and then walk back in.

Kind of scary.

I bet you W's administration is pretty close to that state of affairs.

I really don't think the president is usually as in charge of everything as people believe. I feel that less intelligent, but more socially adept, people deal with that better. They don't rub people the wrong way as often and people are more complacent around them.

[angel nympho]

Originally posted by Arex@Nov 25 2002, 09:54 PM
Well, let's not forget that the majority of the voters in the U.S. DIDN'T vote this shmuck into office...=/

Alex
Yeah. A lot of people who complain, though, didn't vote. That's lame.

[LCY]

That's fricking funny.

[seryb]

Originally posted by angel nympho@Nov 25 2002, 03:16 PM
Originally posted by Arex@Nov 25 2002, 09:54 PM
Well, let's not forget that the majority of the voters in the U.S. DIDN'T vote this shmuck into office...=/

Alex
Yeah. A lot of people who complain, though, didn't vote. That's lame.
You've been in a bad mood for awhile now. :unsure:

[ChinaLama]

Originally posted by seryb@Nov 26 2002, 07:50 AM
Originally posted by angel nympho@Nov 25 2002, 03:16 PM
Originally posted by Arex@Nov 25 2002, 09:54 PM
Well, let's not forget that the majority of the voters in the U.S. DIDN'T vote this shmuck into office...=/

Alex
Yeah. A lot of people who complain, though, didn't vote. That's lame.
You've been in a bad mood for awhile now. :unsure:
shrug, she's right. complaining about poor outcomes that one could have possibly helped prevent is pretty lame.

[Flint]

Whoa....hot topic...shoutz out to Craig for the post...

What I'm hearing from most of you Canadians in here are nothing but ignorance...Don't make us bomb your ass...Do you seriously think that the most powerful man in the world is a moron?...It still amazes me that people on the lower end of the spectrum can bicker and complain.

For one moment take a step back and look at yourself, your daily lives, your daily activities....ask yourself these question...."what in the hell are you doing today that is important to your fellow citizens, to the world"..."Are you making a difference"...."Are you a consequential figure to the people around you"....no, of course not...why in the world would anyone want you to do anything on his/her behalf or be the deciding factor on important issues...You don't have any credentials....You ain't gotz shit to offer.

Until you can answer yes to these question...there's no reason for you to suggest what our President is or is not....he can be whatever the hell he wants to be.

[seryb]

If I sniff enough coke and get straight C's, can I be president, too?

[ChinaLama]

Flint's got a point. Bush may not have a high IQ or know Jeopardy-like details, but there's a reason he's President and say, William Safire is not. Bush probably has far above average people skills, and the name and family connections help, too. But those family connections ARE an asset to the country as a whole, as well, because w/ those connections, you can get level-headed and talented ppl to serve you (like Colin Powell).

[TyroneK(prettypretty)]

Just like we said, ChinaLama. You don't need to be smart. You just need to be a good politician.

[kitty]

Originally posted by Flint@Nov 26 2002, 03:03 PM
Whoa....hot topic...shoutz out to Craig for the post...

What I'm hearing from most of you Canadians in here are nothing but ignorance...Don't make us bomb your ass...Do you seriously think that the most powerful man in the world is a moron?...It still amazes me that people on the lower end of the spectrum can bicker and complain.

For one moment take a step back and look at yourself, your daily lives, your daily activities....ask yourself these question...."what in the hell are you doing today that is important to your fellow citizens, to the world"..."Are you making a difference"...."Are you a consequential figure to the people around you"....no, of course not...why in the world would anyone want you to do anything on his/her behalf or be the deciding factor on important issues...You don't have any credentials....You ain't gotz shit to offer.

Until you can answer yes to these question...there's no reason for you to suggest what our President is or is not....he can be whatever the hell he wants to be.
need i remind you of the "pretzel" fiasco?

if that man is "the most powerful man in the world", we are all doomed.

[ChinaLama]

Yes, but it seems a lot of people value "good politician" under "smart." Why is that? Do they honestly think THEY can do a better job because they're "smarter?" The vast majority of Bush critics are probably not fucking brilliant themselves (esp since a whole lot of them are hsers who think they're the shit cuz they know all 50 state capitals. w00t w00t!)

[kitty]

Originally posted by ChinaLama@Nov 26 2002, 05:51 PM
Yes, but it seems a lot of people value "good politician" under "smart." Why is that? Do they honestly think THEY can do a better job because they're "smarter?" The vast majority of Bush critics are probably not fucking brilliant themselves (esp since a whole lot of them are hsers who think they're the shit cuz they know all 50 state capitals. w00t w00t!)
Maybe it's not necessary to have an einstein in office, but at least someone who has proper motor control of their esophagus?

that is if the pretzel thing is true. I think the wifey was asserting her own brand of aggressive politics.

[Arb Nam]

Originally posted by ChinaLama@Nov 26 2002, 09:51 AM
Yes, but it seems a lot of people value "good politician" under "smart." Why is that? Do they honestly think THEY can do a better job because they're "smarter?" The vast majority of Bush critics are probably not fucking brilliant themselves (esp since a whole lot of them are hsers who think they're the shit cuz they know all 50 state capitals. w00t w00t!)
A good president? Perhaps someone to whom eating a pretzel and watching TV isn't a lethal combination.

[VV o n g B a]

Originally posted by ChinaLama@Nov 26 2002, 05:51 PM
Yes, but it seems a lot of people value "good politician" under "smart." Why is that? Do they honestly think THEY can do a better job because they're "smarter?" The vast majority of Bush critics are probably not fucking brilliant themselves (esp since a whole lot of them are hsers who think they're the shit cuz they know all 50 state capitals. w00t w00t!)
be that as it may let me remind you again of some bush-isms. if you are a president, at least you should have proper speaking ability. (thats is the ability to not sound dumb and contradict yourself in the same sentence)

Bush-isms:

"If we don't succeed we run the risk of failure." - umm... duh?

"So, let's be clear then: if affirmative action means what I just described, what I'm for, then I'm for it." - huh?

"I have made good judgements in the past. I have made good judgements in the future." - is he miss cleo?

"Rarely is the question asked: is our children learning?" - are they learning.... what?

"It isn't pollution that's harming the environment. It's the impurities in our air and water that are doing it." - have i mentioned umm... duh?

"There is madmen in the world and there are terror." - oi.

"I know something about being a government. And you've got a good one." - yes.

"These people don't have tanks. They don't have ships. They hide in caves. They send suiciders out." - speaking of terrorists.

"I was proud the other day when both Republicans and Democrats stood with me in the Rose Garden to announce their support for a clear statement of purpose: you disarm, or we will." - speaking of Saddam.

"There's an old saying in Tennessee — I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again." - nope... nobody can fool you mr bush.

"He [Japanese Prime Minister Junichiro Koizumi] said I want to make it very clear to you exactly what I intend to do and he talked about non-performing loans, the devaluation issue and regulatory reform and he placed equal emphasis on all three." - had meant to say "the deflation issue" rather than "the devaluation issue," and accidentally sent the Japanese Yen tumbling.

and the list goes on...

[ChinaLama]

Most of these Bushisms are what I call "nitpicking." Nitpicking is not a leadership quality. I mean, at the very least, people who disagree with Bush's POLICIES have legitimate beef. But for being pissed off that he gets his tenses mixed? Jesus Christ, have they read too many William Safire columns? I'm more embarassed about people who harp on Bushisms than i am about Bushisms themselves!

ok...the last one was a bad slip, but come on, ppl, give him a break!

here's all i gotta say: stick to REAL issues: the economy, national security, etc. Any more "Bush is dumb cuz he has bad grades and occasionally says stupid things" -- that's gonna give ME, who's pretty decidedly anti-Republican, a headache. Although then again it's not even worth getting bothered at since the nitpickers are obviously not going to be my leaders anytime soon.

[VV o n g B a]

forgot a good one:

"My trip to Asia begins here in Japan for an important reason. It begins here because for a century and a half now, America and Japan have formed one of the great and enduring alliances of modern times. From that alliance has come an era of peace in the Pacific." - yes, 150 years of glorious peace between Japan and the US. uh... wait a minute...

[VV o n g B a]

Originally posted by ChinaLama@Nov 26 2002, 09:06 PM
Most of these Bushisms are what I call "nitpicking." Nitpicking is not a leadership quality. I mean, at the very least, people who disagree with Bush's POLICIES have legitimate beef. But for being pissed off that he gets his tenses mixed? Jesus Christ, have they read too many William Safire columns? I'm more embarassed about people who harp on Bushisms than i am about Bushisms themselves!
yes yes, certainly it is nitpicking. but it does affect the way i view him as a leader. it makes me wonder how much thought he has put into coming up with his policies. has he acted without thinking through all the consequences? maybe it has no bearing. but it definitely makes me wonder.

btw, there is a strange bug. i can edit this post, but the "edit" button for my bushisms post isn't there. weird.

[ChinaLama]

Originally posted by VV o n g B a@Nov 26 2002, 09:07 PM
forgot a good one:

"My trip to Asia begins here in Japan for an important reason. It begins here because for a century and a half now, America and Japan have formed one of the great and enduring alliances of modern times. From that alliance has come an era of peace in the Pacific." - yes, 150 years of glorious peace between Japan and the US. uh... wait a minute...
That's what I call diplomatic rhetoric. I mean if I were a speechwriter, would I really want to write "150 years of alliance-- OOPS except for WWII and all that bloodshedding of imperialist powers earlier"? No, the speech served its purpose, which is to build Japan-American relations and make everyone happy, so I don't see how it's a *bad* line because it omits some history; in fact, it's good precisely because of that omission. Honesty is not always the best policy.

[ChinaLama]

Originally posted by VV o n g B a@Nov 26 2002, 09:11 PM
yes yes, certainly it is nitpicking. but it does affect the way i view him as a leader. it makes me wonder how much thought he has put into coming up with his policies. has he acted without thinking through all the consequences? maybe it has no bearing. but it definitely makes me wonder.
or perhaps he spends more time thinking about policy issues rather than thinking, what's the best possible way to put things?

How come so many people are worried about Bush making some grammar mistakes and not worried about how Clinton abusing the boss-intern relationship and then obstructing investigation of that would hamper HIS policy-making decisions? I'm not anti-Clinton by any means, but can't people just be CONSISTENT! argh...it's the econ major in me...can't stand intransitivity.

[VV o n g B a]

Originally posted by ChinaLama@Nov 26 2002, 09:12 PM
Originally posted by VV o n g B a@Nov 26 2002, 09:07 PM
forgot a good one:

"My trip to Asia begins here in Japan for an important reason. It begins here because for a century and a half now, America and Japan have formed one of the great and enduring alliances of modern times. From that alliance has come an era of peace in the Pacific." &nbsp;- yes, 150 years of glorious peace between Japan and the US. &nbsp;uh... wait a minute...
That's what I call diplomatic rhetoric. I mean if I were a speechwriter, would I really want to write "150 years of alliance-- OOPS except for WWII and all that bloodshedding of imperialist powers earlier"? No, the speech served its purpose, which is to build Japan-American relations and make everyone happy, so I don't see how it's a *bad* line because it omits some history; in fact, it's good precisely because of that omission. Honesty is not always the best policy.
actually i think he meant to say "half a century" and got his words mixed. but whatever. all i'm saying is that it doesn't inspire confidence. for example: i don't like rumsfeld's ideas. but i respect him because he projects an aura of certainty and is logically consistent. if he were president, we would never have discussions of ability. if u listen to him, it feels like he KNOWS what he's doing.

bush's aura of certainty can seem to stem from ignorance because he is not logically consistent.

and yeah, u're right about me not being in a position to lead. i personally don't think i have the right qualities either. but i've seen people who can and do have these qualities and that would inspire confidence whatever their choices were.

[angel nympho]

Originally posted by seryb@Nov 26 2002, 07:50 AM
Originally posted by angel nympho@Nov 25 2002, 03:16 PM
Originally posted by Arex@Nov 25 2002, 09:54 PM
Well, let's not forget that the majority of the voters in the U.S. DIDN'T vote this shmuck into office...=/

Alex
Yeah. A lot of people who complain, though, didn't vote. That's lame.
You've been in a bad mood for awhile now. :unsure:
I know. :( I denno why...

[Craig]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/media/photo/2002-11/5541352.jpg

[VV o n g B a]

Originally posted by ChinaLama@Nov 26 2002, 09:14 PM
or perhaps he spends more time thinking about policy issues rather than thinking, what's the best possible way to put things?

How come so many people are worried about Bush making some grammar mistakes and not worried about how Clinton abusing the boss-intern relationship and then obstructing investigation of that would hamper HIS policy-making decisions? I'm not anti-Clinton by any means, but can't people just be CONSISTENT! argh...it's the econ major in me...can't stand intransitivity.
i was worried and i think a lot of others were too. congress did vote on impeaching him right? i wanted clinton out of office as quickly as possible because he's a liar. i got what i wanted. now i want something else.

i also don't think that he does put much thought into his policies. comparing him and clinton, he comes to work and goes home at the proper time everyday even when major legislation is being decided. clinton often worked long into the night before he got sleep on those same days. no this is not direct evidence, but its more: makes you wonder kind of stuff.

[ChinaLama]

Originally posted by VV o n g B a@Nov 26 2002, 09:29 PM
Originally posted by ChinaLama@Nov 26 2002, 09:14 PM
or perhaps he spends more time thinking about policy issues rather than thinking, what's the best possible way to put things?

How come so many people are worried about Bush making some grammar mistakes and not worried about how Clinton abusing the boss-intern relationship and then obstructing investigation of that would hamper HIS policy-making decisions? I'm not anti-Clinton by any means, but can't people just be CONSISTENT! argh...it's the econ major in me...can't stand intransitivity.
i was worried and i think a lot of others were too. congress did vote on impeaching him right? i wanted clinton out of office as quickly as possible because he's a liar. i got what i wanted. now i want something else.
then i can't really pick my beef w/ you specifically. :)

In any case, I agree that Bush isn't the best possible president of all those running. But while I don't stand behind his policies necessarily, I have enough faith in 50 million American voters to believe that he's at least sitting in his office legitimately.

PS sorry if i sounded lik i was flaming you. I guess I'd best learn some tact and thanks for taking it calmly. :)

[VV o n g B a]

Originally posted by ChinaLama@Nov 26 2002, 09:41 PM
Originally posted by VV o n g B a@Nov 26 2002, 09:29 PM
Originally posted by ChinaLama@Nov 26 2002, 09:14 PM
or perhaps he spends more time thinking about policy issues rather than thinking, what's the best possible way to put things?

How come so many people are worried about Bush making some grammar mistakes and not worried about how Clinton abusing the boss-intern relationship and then obstructing investigation of that would hamper HIS policy-making decisions? I'm not anti-Clinton by any means, but can't people just be CONSISTENT! argh...it's the econ major in me...can't stand intransitivity.
i was worried and i think a lot of others were too. congress did vote on impeaching him right? i wanted clinton out of office as quickly as possible because he's a liar. i got what i wanted. now i want something else.
then i can't really pick my beef w/ you specifically. :)

In any case, I agree that Bush isn't the best possible president of all those running. But while I don't stand behind his policies necessarily, I have enough faith in 50 million American voters to believe that he's at least sitting in his office legitimately.

PS sorry if i sounded lik i was flaming you. I guess I'd best learn some tact and thanks for taking it calmly. :)
no prob. even if i did take it as a flame (i didn't) it still would have been a worthwhile discussion.

[Arb Nam]

Alright let's give credit where credit is due. Mr.Bush isn't an idiot, he's in fact a rubber stamping monkey for big oil and big corporations. Everytime I see him I have to wonder how thought out are his policies? Does he actually sit down and studies the proposals he recieves? Don't even start on his talk about good and evil, it sounded like Luke Skywalker had just became the president.

[Flint]

Originally posted by ChinaLama@Nov 26 2002, 01:06 PM
Most of these Bushisms are what I call "nitpicking." Nitpicking is not a leadership quality. I mean, at the very least, people who disagree with Bush's POLICIES have legitimate beef. But for being pissed off that he gets his tenses mixed? Jesus Christ, have they read too many William Safire columns? I'm more embarassed about people who harp on Bushisms than i am about Bushisms themselves!


Thank you...this is exactly my point...Let's all think outside the box...is your life so trivial and senseless that you've resolved to these types of matter...choose your battle carefully people...find something meaningful in your life.

[Shuriken]

Originally posted by Flint@Nov 27 2002, 03:22 AM
Originally posted by ChinaLama@Nov 26 2002, 01:06 PM
Most of these Bushisms are what I call "nitpicking." Nitpicking is not a leadership quality. I mean, at the very least, people who disagree with Bush's POLICIES have legitimate beef. But for being pissed off that he gets his tenses mixed? Jesus Christ, have they read too many William Safire columns? I'm more embarassed about people who harp on Bushisms than i am about Bushisms themselves!


Thank you...this is exactly my point...Let's all think outside the box...is your life so trivial and senseless that you've resolved to these types of matter...choose your battle carefully people...find something meaningful in your life.
My $0.02: If a black liberal Democrat had abused the English language in the same way Bush does, he'd probably be raked over the coals. The punditocracy would be saying, "The fact that he doesn't know how to speak a coherent sentence proves that he's unfit for public service." However, if a sentence is mangled by a white conservative Republican, it means that he's a "man of the people," and he's therefore held to a different standard.

God bless America...

[AliBabaIncorporated]

Originally posted by Shuriken@Nov 27 2002, 04:57 PM
Originally posted by Flint@Nov 27 2002, 03:22 AM
Originally posted by ChinaLama@Nov 26 2002, 01:06 PM
Most of these Bushisms are what I call "nitpicking." Nitpicking is not a leadership quality. I mean, at the very least, people who disagree with Bush's POLICIES have legitimate beef. But for being pissed off that he gets his tenses mixed? Jesus Christ, have they read too many William Safire columns? I'm more embarassed about people who harp on Bushisms than i am about Bushisms themselves!


Thank you...this is exactly my point...Let's all think outside the box...is your life so trivial and senseless that you've resolved to these types of matter...choose your battle carefully people...find something meaningful in your life.
My $0.02: If a black liberal Democrat had abused the English language in the same way Bush does, he'd probably be raked over the coals. The punditocracy would be saying, "The fact that he doesn't know how to speak a coherent sentence proves that he's unfit for public service." However, if a sentence is mangled by a white conservative Republican, it means that he's a "man of the people," and he's therefore held to a different standard.

God bless America...
Oh please. No Republican is gonna take a Black democrat to task for bad grammar. TV news soundbite reporting would spin that into "Republican Congressman Thinks Blacks Are Too Stupid to Speak Proper English" by 6:00 that evening, and his political career would be over. On the other hand, I don't see anyone's suffering for nitpicking at the commander in chief.

[Yeahman]

it is said that bush has an iq about that of jfk. there is 1 huge difference between the 2 though. bush is probably the worst speaking president we have ever had. jfk may have been the best.

and who are the real morons who made bush president? it's the american people.

[Shuriken]

Originally posted by AliBabaIncorporated@Nov 27 2002, 10:58 AM
Oh please. No Republican is gonna take a Black democrat to task for bad grammar. TV news soundbite reporting would spin that into "Republican Congressman Thinks Blacks Are Too Stupid to Speak Proper English" by 6:00 that evening, and his political career would be over. On the other hand, I don't see anyone's suffering for nitpicking at the commander in chief.
I said the "punditocracy," meaning the TV and newspaper pundits, not Republican Congressmen. It's the pundits who act as the politicians' hatchet men these days, saying the things that the politicians would like to say but don't for fear of losing votes. And maybe liberal commentators aren't taken to task for pointing out Bush's verbal follies, but neither are their comments about this taken very seriously — demonstrated by your dimissive characterization of it as "nitpicking."

[angel nympho]

Either way, don't most presidents have like, speech writers? Maybe Bush just can't read.

[bwc]

his speaking, while horrible to listen to, can still be tolerated. It is the stuff that is being said IN his speech that grates on my nerves

[mike4bmp]

Originally posted by angel nympho@Nov 28 2002, 01:28 AM
Either way, don't most presidents have like, speech writers? Maybe Bush just can't read.
I think he puts his foot in his mouth way too often for him not to improvise a little bit....at least to the point where he sounds kinda foolish. Like the other day he was talking about how talks were going between the US and Latin American leaders and stated that everything was going fine but he wished that he had "paid more a attention to Latin in school...." (Bush) :D
He also commented on how "Africa is a NATION that is plagued with many problems." I'm sure there is more like this......
I think there was even a Seattle Times article about this a couple of months ago quoting all his "foot in the mouth statements".....but oh well.....
Peace.....

[Yeahman]

i would probably do worse then bush speaking in front of a large crowd but i'm not the president. it's a job requirement and even if he's mentally competent he sure doesn't satisfy the public speaking requirement.

[angel nympho]

Well if he made his way into the white house, he's a hell of a lot smarter than I am.

[ChinaLama]

Originally posted by mike4bmp@Nov 28 2002, 05:16 AM
I think he puts his foot in his mouth way too often for him not to improvise a little bit....at least to the point where he sounds kinda foolish. Like the other day he was talking about how talks were going between the US and Latin American leaders and stated that everything was going fine but he wished that he had "paid more a attention to Latin in school...." (Bush) :D
He also commented on how "Africa is a NATION that is plagued with many problems." I'm sure there is more like this......
I think there was even a Seattle Times article about this a couple of months ago quoting all his "foot in the mouth statements".....but oh well.....
Peace.....
i thought the Latin thing was atrributed to Quayle. It's all good. Dan Quayle rocks! Dan Quayle for President, 2004!

BTW i was rooting for Quayle in the primaries. too bad he dropped out so early. I just think it woulda rocked to see him run. :D

[Flint]

Originally posted by angel nympho@Nov 28 2002, 01:54 AM
Well if he made his way into the white house, he's a hell of a lot smarter than I am.
I was waiting for someone this bright to say that....In any even, she lost her job this past week....my..my...my...who's the moron now...that's a lesson to all you Canadians...don't mess :P :P :P :P :P with the U.S.

[ChinaLama]

Originally posted by Flint@Nov 28 2002, 09:12 PM
I was waiting for someone this bright to say that....In any even, she lost her job this past week....my..my...my...who's the moron now...that's a lesson to all you Canadians...don't mess :P :P :P :P :P with the U.S.
nah, she lost her job cuz ppl didnt wanna see her face on TV. Dropped ratings for Canadian TV in half.

[mike4bmp]

Originally posted by ChinaLama@Nov 28 2002, 03:37 PM
Originally posted by mike4bmp@Nov 28 2002, 05:16 AM
I think he puts his foot in his mouth way too often for him not to improvise a little bit....at least to the point where he sounds kinda foolish. Like the other day he was talking about how talks were going between the US and Latin American leaders and stated that everything was going fine but he wished that he had "paid more a attention to Latin in school...." (Bush) :D
He also commented on how "Africa is a NATION that is plagued with many problems." I'm sure there is more like this......
I think there was even a Seattle Times article about this a couple of months ago quoting all his "foot in the mouth statements".....but oh well.....
Peace.....
i thought the Latin thing was atrributed to Quayle. It's all good. Dan Quayle rocks! Dan Quayle for President, 2004!

BTW i was rooting for Quayle in the primaries. too bad he dropped out so early. I just think it woulda rocked to see him run. :D
I think you may be right because I remember the Seattle Times article being about Bush AND Quayle. Either way, they say some stupid stuff sometimes..... :lol:

[Flint]

Originally posted by ChinaLama@Nov 28 2002, 02:19 PM
nah, she lost her job cuz ppl didnt wanna see her face on TV. Dropped ratings for Canadian TV in half.
True...true...but you have to admit...her comment was the straw that broke the camel's back.

[Craig]

I found this argument against Bush being a "moron" that I thought would add to the conversation going on here.

:go:

Nov. 28, 2002. 05:45 AM
Bush anything but moronic, according to author
Dark overtones in his malapropisms President

MURRAY WHYTE

When Mark Crispin Miller first set out to write Dyslexicon: Observations on a National Disorder, about the ever-growing catalogue of President George W. Bush's verbal gaffes, he meant it for a laugh. But what he came to realize wasn't entirely amusing.

Since the 2000 presidential campaign, Miller has been compiling his own collection of Bush-isms, which have revealed, he says, a disquieting truth about what lurks behind the cock-eyed leer of the leader of the free world. He's not a moron at all — on that point, Miller and Prime Minister Jean Chrétien agree.

But according to Miller, he's no friend.

"I did initially intend it to be a funny book. But that was before I had a chance to read through all the transcripts," Miller, an American author and a professor of culture and communication at New York University, said recently in Toronto.

"Bush is not an imbecile. He's not a puppet. I think that Bush is a sociopathic personality. I think he's incapable of empathy. He has an inordinate sense of his own entitlement, and he's a very skilled manipulator. And in all the snickering about his alleged idiocy, this is what a lot of people miss."

Miller's judgment, that the president might suffer from a bona fide personality disorder, almost makes one long for the less menacing notion currently making the rounds: that the White House's current occupant is, in fact, simply an idiot.

If only. Miller's rendering of the president is bleaker than that. In studying Bush's various adventures in oration, he started to see a pattern emerging.

"He has no trouble speaking off the cuff when he's speaking punitively, when he's talking about violence, when he's talking about revenge.

"When he struts and thumps his chest, his syntax and grammar are fine," Miller said.

"It's only when he leaps into the wild blue yonder of compassion, or idealism, or altruism, that he makes these hilarious mistakes."

While Miller's book has been praised for its "eloquence" and "playful use of language," it has enraged Bush supporters.

Bush's ascent in the eyes of many Americans — his approval rating hovers at near 80 percent — was the direct result of tough talk following the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks. In those speeches, Bush stumbled not at all; his language of retribution was clear.

It was a sharp contrast to the pre-9/11 George W. Bush. Even before the Supreme Court in 2001 had to intervene and rule on recounts in Florida after a contentious presidential election, a corps of journalists were salivating at the prospect: a bafflingly inarticulate man in a position of power not seen since vice-president Dan Quayle rode shotgun on George H.W. Bush's one term in office.

But equating Bush's malapropisms with Quayle's inability to spell "potato" is a dangerous assumption, Miller says.

At a public address in Nashville, Tenn., in September, Bush provided one of his most memorable stumbles. Trying to give strength to his case that Saddam Hussein had already deceived the West concerning his store of weapons, Bush was scripted to offer an old saying: Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. What came out was the following:

"Fool me once, shame ... shame on ... you." Long, uncomfortable pause. "Fool me — can't get fooled again!"

Played for laughs everywhere, Miller saw a darkness underlying the gaffe.

"There's an episode of Happy Days, where The Fonz has to say, `I'm sorry' and can't do it. Same thing," Miller said.

"What's revealing about this is that Bush could not say, `Shame on me' to save his life. That's a completely alien idea to him. This is a guy who is absolutely proud of his own inflexibility and rectitude."

If what Miller says is true — and it would take more than just observations to prove it — then Bush has achieved an astounding goal.

By stumbling blithely along, he has been able to push his image as "just folks" — a normal guy who screws up just like the rest of us.

This, in fact, is a central cog in his image-making machine, Miller says: Portraying the wealthy scion of one of America's most powerful families as a regular, imperfect Joe.

But the depiction, Miller says, is also remarkable for what it hides — imperfect, yes, but also detached, wealthy and unable to identify with the "folks" he's been designed to appeal to.

An example, Miller says, surfaced early in his presidential tenure.

"I know how hard it is to put food on your family," Bush was quoted as saying.

"That wasn't because he's so stupid that he doesn't know how to say, `Put food on your family's table' — it's because he doesn't care about people who can't put food on the table," Miller says.

So, when Bush is envisioning "a foreign-handed foreign policy," or observes on some point that "it's not the way that America is all about," Miller contends it's because he can't keep his focus on things that mean nothing to him.

"When he tries to talk about what this country stands for, or about democracy, he can't do it," he said.

This, then, is why he's so closely watched by his handlers, Miller says — not because he'll say something stupid, but because he'll overindulge in the language of violence and punishment at which he excels.

"He's a very angry guy, a hostile guy. He's much like Nixon. So they're very, very careful to choreograph every move he makes. They don't want him anywhere near protestors, because he would lose his temper."

Miller, without question, is a man with a mission — and laughter isn't it.

"I call him the feel bad president, because he's all about punishment and death," he said. "It would be a grave mistake to just play him for laughs."