Gaijins in Japan

[axi0m]

Hey guys. I was wondering what your thoughts were on the issue of gaijins becoming popular in Japan. Do you think they are really becoming popular, or just another fad (since you know how Japanese fads fade in and out VERY quickly). I know that gaijins aren't so popular in big cities like Tokyo, etc. but in small towns they are REALLY liked. Do you think this is good for Japanese culture, or bad? You can see the influence with recent Japanese pop and punk bands singing a lot of songs completely in (bad) English and Japanese youth wearing shirts with rather offensive English on them. Personally, I think this could potentially be a bad thing because Japan has a very rich culture itself, and I don't want to see it pushed aside because of some pop fad... Oh well, it'll probably die out within the next few years anyway. :)

-Satoshi-

[Hiroshi2]

It's a very complex situation. Japan has a strong sense of nationalism, and I agree with you: it is a rich culture that should not fade away, but with the increasing number of non-japanese in Japan, many are concerned that Japan may be losing aspects of its culture that have been around for centuries. Definitely a conflict.

[BeTheReds]

Well in Tokyo they are not popular.

And its really fucking annoying when you try to go to the store to buy something and you say 2 words and the person there is all like... wow your japanese is so good. Or you ask someone how to get somewhere and they say wow your japanese is so good.

WHAT the fuck.. that gets so annoying after a while.


And the incessant children following me saying haro haro haro... dammit i just wanna kick them.

[axi0m]

Oh man, that WOULD get annoying... and I'm going there this summer too! Noooooo! :)

-Satoshi-

[kimpossible]

I think you have to be careful with the definition of popular and foreigner here. Sounds like you mean non-Asian foreigner since the Japanese don't really notice other Asians too much. For instance, my Chinese friends don't get stared at but I do. The guys with leaflets (not just the tissue dudes) on the street looking for foreigners will try to speak bad English with me and shove the pamplet in my face but not theirs.

The fascination with non-Asian foriegners isn't really a deep and long-term thing. It's not like the Japanese want to embrace them (us, whatever) and make them family or officially Japanese. It's not dissimilar to the way Americans like foreign things; European stuff and Asian stuff is cool but no one really makes a sincere effort to really dig deep into cultural signifigance or map their lives around it.

Japan has always imported and assimilated a lot of foreign culture -- a lot of it from the Chinese. Or is that my brainwashing talking? Anyway, there is a fascination with the international and a lot of non-Asian Americans mistake it for the Japanese liking them rather than being able to perceive it as part of a trendy youth culture thing. I don't think a lot of ppl understand or have an interest in Japanese culture outside of youth trends, pop culture or Tokugawa period.

People change as they get older. Many in the work force are radically different than when they were students. They can cut loose in college but have to grow up a lot once they enter company culture.

[Craig]

Originally posted by BeTheReds@Nov 24 2002, 07:36 PM
And the incessant children following me saying haro haro haro... dammit i just wanna kick them.
Go for it; it'll teach them a good lesson :rolleyes:

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by Hello_Hapa@Nov 30 2002, 08:06 PM
Japan has always imported and assimilated a lot of foreign culture -- a lot of it from the Chinese. Or is that my brainwashing talking?
resistance is futile. hahha no just kidding.

i am not sure absolutely, but my guess is that the period of time when japan did the most "borrowing" of cultural values from china was way back in the Tang and maybe Song dynasty. the Tang dynasty was a golden flourishing period of chinese culture, and the Song dynasty was the dynasty that came after (although it only occupied southern china, northern china was occupied by jurchen tribes, which coincidently also clashed with koreans as well as han chinese). i'm guessing that while there were always cultural exchanges, the adaptation of things chinese stopped when the mongols came and set up the short-lived Yuen dynasty. the mongols conquered the korean peninsula but failed in both their attempts to conquer japan. the japanese just had way more experience with sea battles than the mongols did. the dynasty after Yuen was the Ming dynasty, and while in the early days, Ming dynasty saw the greatest chinese sea voyage, it was mostly isolationistic. the next dynasty was also the last dynasty, Qing.

again, this is just my best guess. at the moment i don't really feel like researching approximately when it can be considered that Japan stopped adapting chinese culture.

[AliBabaIncorporated]

yet another observation on Japanese people vs. Chinese people and how they deal with foreign-looking individuals : at the JLPT this morning, they had both native Japanese professors and Chinese professors of Japanese (from the Hong Kong Japanese Language Education Society) supervising the test. easiest way to tell the Japanese profs from the Chinese profs? Just see what language they use to give instructions to people who don't look Chinese (out of about 750 people taking 1-kyu, there were 5 of us). The Chinese profs used Japanese. The Japanese profs used English. (Whereas they used Japanese towards the Chinese test-takers). Even to the non-English speakers who would obviously be better off talking in Japanese.

Fortunately the head test administrator was Chinese, so he didn't bother translating every freakin thing he said into English. Only Japanese and then Cantonese.

[BeTheReds]

ITS FUCKING IKKYU
If these people cant speak Japanese and they are taking ikkyu then they are obviously fucked.
are they that thick?

[axi0m]

Originally posted by BeTheReds@Dec 2 2002, 01:03 AM
ITS FUCKING IKKYU
If these people cant speak Japanese and they are taking ikkyu then they are obviously fucked.
are they that thick?
:blink:

[igcognito]

can I ask what a gaijin is? or is that not allowed?

[Hiroshi2]

Originally posted by igcognito@Dec 1 2002, 07:55 PM
can I ask what a gaijin is? or is that not allowed?
Gaijin is the common japanese word for foreigner. It literally means "outside person." "Gai" meaning outside, "jin" meaning person.

[igcognito]

thanks. Sorry for being, well so clueless.

[kimpossible]

Originally posted by igcognito@Dec 1 2002, 08:38 PM
thanks. Sorry for being, well so clueless.
Don't be sorry. :)

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by AliBabaIncorporated@Dec 1 2002, 03:46 AM
yet another observation on Japanese people vs. Chinese people and how they deal with foreign-looking individuals : at the JLPT this morning, they had both native Japanese professors and Chinese professors of Japanese (from the Hong Kong Japanese Language Education Society) supervising the test. easiest way to tell the Japanese profs from the Chinese profs? Just see what language they use to give instructions to people who don't look Chinese (out of about 750 people taking 1-kyu, there were 5 of us). The Chinese profs used Japanese. The Japanese profs used English. (Whereas they used Japanese towards the Chinese test-takers). Even to the non-English speakers who would obviously be better off talking in Japanese.

Fortunately the head test administrator was Chinese, so he didn't bother translating every freakin thing he said into English. Only Japanese and then Cantonese.
what are the implications?

[BeTheReds]

Originally posted by SunWuKung@Dec 2 2002, 06:02 AM

what are the implications?
The implication is that the Japanese professors think that there's no fucking way a white person studying their language would have any spoken Japanese ability that would enable them to understand Japanese, but Asians on the other hand would, even though this is the highest level of the fluency test, they can't get it thru their thick skulls that a white dude or white looking dude would be able to speak their language.

[AliBabaIncorporated]

Originally posted by BeTheReds@Dec 2 2002, 02:31 PM
Originally posted by SunWuKung@Dec 2 2002, 06:02 AM

what are the implications?
The implication is that the Japanese professors think that there's no fucking way a white person studying their language would have any spoken Japanese ability that would enable them to understand Japanese, but Asians on the other hand would, even though this is the highest level of the fluency test, they can't get it thru their thick skulls that a white dude or white looking dude would be able to speak their language.
hmm ... I think it's more like, everyone wants to show off their language skills by talking in their non-native language. The difference of course being that the Chinese profs actually had something to show off (or at least I thought they did, they were obviously way better at Japanese than us test takers, though for all I know native speakers might have thought they had a really annoying accent or something :lol:), whereas the Japanese profs ... well, let's just say the entertainment of the day yesterday was seeing a Japanese guy who couldn't speak English trying to use English to address a Pakistani test-taker who couldn't speak English, and watching the communication impasse go on until an HK girl stepped in and translated the prof's katakoto English into perfectly good Japanese for the Pakistani guy.

[BeTheReds]

Originally posted by AliBabaIncorporated@Dec 2 2002, 07:35 AM
well, let's just say the entertainment of the day yesterday was seeing a Japanese guy who couldn't speak English trying to use English to address a Pakistani test-taker who couldn't speak English, and watching the communication impasse go on until an HK girl stepped in and translated the prof's katakoto English into perfectly good Japanese for the Pakistani guy.
Hahahahahaha!

That's rich!

But I have yet to meet someone here who wants to show off... usually they want to be all shy, afraid of making mistakes.

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by AliBabaIncorporated@Dec 2 2002, 02:35 AM
Originally posted by BeTheReds@Dec 2 2002, 02:31 PM
Originally posted by SunWuKung@Dec 2 2002, 06:02 AM

what are the implications?
The implication is that the Japanese professors think that there's no fucking way a white person studying their language would have any spoken Japanese ability that would enable them to understand Japanese, but Asians on the other hand would, even though this is the highest level of the fluency test, they can't get it thru their thick skulls that a white dude or white looking dude would be able to speak their language.
hmm ... I think it's more like, everyone wants to show off their language skills by talking in their non-native language. The difference of course being that the Chinese profs actually had something to show off (or at least I thought they did, they were obviously way better at Japanese than us test takers, though for all I know native speakers might have thought they had a really annoying accent or something :lol:), whereas the Japanese profs ... well, let's just say the entertainment of the day yesterday was seeing a Japanese guy who couldn't speak English trying to use English to address a Pakistani test-taker who couldn't speak English, and watching the communication impasse go on until an HK girl stepped in and translated the prof's katakoto English into perfectly good Japanese for the Pakistani guy.
hahhahhah man i'm starting to miss those local HKer girls now. :)

[BeTheReds]

Anyway, to get back on topic...

Many people in the USA have this mythical view of Japan. They say things like "Oh, I hear white guys get mad play over in Japan." This is not true. Many of those jackasses come here looking for their little madame butterfly and end up getting overaged women in search of marriage.

[axi0m]

Yea, but it IS true that Western culture is pretty popular over there right? Or maybe I'm just horribly mistaken and need to get my ass over there sooner than this summer so I dont' look like a complete idiot. :)

-Satoshi-

[kimpossible]

True but it's not treated with any more sincerity than a fashion accessory. But as to how it will affect you:

*ppl will speak English with you no matter how well you speak Japanese
*some ppl will want to be your friend just because you're an American
*some ppl will hate you because you're a foreigner
*most ppl will assume you don't understand any Japanese

I'm sure there's other stuff that I'm not listing. Then there's the age and gender difference. I get the freaky Japanese guys that want to date a Japanese hapa (though they don't understand it in the term hapa). Dude, you're going to try to find some family or distant cousins before you go, right? If you do bring some fat presents and try to avoid staying overnight because they'll go all out on being good hosts. It makes your family spend a lot of money and that isn't cool.

Anyhow, don't sweat the foreigner influence in Japan too much. Trust me that you'll find out that a lot of the fascination is surface only. Just do yourself a favor and stay out of the big foreigner hangouts like Roppongi. Well you can go if you want but I hate those types of places.

[BeTheReds]

Roppongi sucks. It is full of people in Japan who don't want to be in Japan.

[axi0m]

I'll make a note of that. The reason I'm going to Tokyo this summer is because I'll only be there 6 weeks, and then next year I'm going for a year, and I'll probably go to Nagoya or Kyoto. I just wanted to get the experience of Tokyo and then stay for a year in a more "traditional" setting. Should be fun. :)

-Satoshi-

[AliBabaIncorporated]

Originally posted by Hello_Hapa@Dec 3 2002, 10:34 AM
True but it's not treated with any more sincerity than a fashion accessory. But as to how it will affect you:

*ppl will speak English with you no matter how well you speak Japanese
*some ppl will want to be your friend just because you're an American
*some ppl will hate you because you're a foreigner
*most ppl will assume you don't understand any Japanese
Hmm, I just got back from Japan ... all y'all who read my posts in this forum know my big pet peeve is salespeople and the like speaking English to me just by based on looking at me. Yet strangely enough, in my whole trip to Japan, not once did a cashier or receptionist speak English to me. Even in the language-learning section of the Kinokuniya Books in Shinjuku, which was swarming with foreigners (I was there to buy a Japanese-Korean-English dictionary). Even the receptionist at this hotel where a job fair I attended was being held, responded in Japanese when I asked her for directions in Japanese, and her English was fluent and almost unaccented (she took a phone call in the middle of giving me directions, and I heard her speaking English to the customer on the other end), as compared to my foreign-accented and ungrammatical Japanese.

Also, airport bookstores in Japan and Hong Kong: I bought a Japanese book at Narita. The cashier said "Irassyaimase" (welcome) when I came in. She asked me if I'd like a cover on my book and told me the total amount in Japanese. A day later, I went to buy a Chinese magazine at the HK airport. The cashier said, in what might have been English, "Ekkyoosoo me sah, solly dis eee Chineee magajeen. You wan baai Englee magajeen?" I guess I got spoiled by all the nice, polite customer service in Japan, cuz I tossed the thing back at her, snapped "Fine, I'll go somewhere else to buy it," and walked over to their competitor.

[BeTheReds]

Eric,

Why you didn't say anything about coming to Japan? We could have hung out!

Anyway, the places you went to are places frequented by foreigners... foreign bookstores, airports, hotels, bookstores in airports, etc. The people who work there know that there are a lot of foregners with Japanese language abilities. Come out to Saitama next time and I'll take you to a few combini or restaurants where the english flows natural. Ask a cop for directions on the sidewalk when you are together with your Asian friends who don't speak Japanese and watch carefully who he is directing his speech toward. Have a conversation with people who are not paid to deal with foreigners on a daily basis. You will then see that some of the stuff that you say happens in HK also happens here. Perhaps it is a much larger scale over there, tho.

[mr. x]

Originally posted by BeTheReds@Nov 24 2002, 04:36 PM
Well in Tokyo they are not popular.

And its really fucking annoying when you try to go to the store to buy something and you say 2 words and the person there is all like... wow your japanese is so good. Or you ask someone how to get somewhere and they say wow your japanese is so good.

WHAT the fuck.. that gets so annoying after a while.


And the incessant children following me saying haro haro haro... dammit i just wanna kick them.
Japanese children are kinda cute actually, so long as its not done out of malice

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by AliBabaIncorporated@Dec 25 2002, 05:37 AM
Also, airport bookstores in Japan and Hong Kong: I bought a Japanese book at Narita. The cashier said "Irassyaimase" (welcome) when I came in. She asked me if I'd like a cover on my book and told me the total amount in Japanese. A day later, I went to buy a Chinese magazine at the HK airport. The cashier said, in what might have been English, "Ekkyoosoo me sah, solly dis eee Chineee magajeen. You wan baai Englee magajeen?" I guess I got spoiled by all the nice, polite customer service in Japan, cuz I tossed the thing back at her, snapped "Fine, I'll go somewhere else to buy it," and walked over to their competitor.
oh hahahah did you speak chinese when you were paying for the magazine?

[iris]

I just got to Tokyo today and I actually feel kinda rude for not knowing the language and inadvertantly forcing people to speak to me in English. :(

I've memorized phrases like "I don't know. I can only speak English. I am so sorry." "How much is it?" "Where is the bathroom" and "Hello, how are you." Certainly not enough to get around. I gotta get a phrase book or something.

[wylin]

Originally posted by iris@Jan 6 2003, 06:53 AM
I just got to Tokyo today and I actually feel kinda rude for not knowing the language and inadvertantly forcing people to speak to me in English. :(

I've memorized phrases like "I don't know. I can only speak English. I am so sorry." "How much is it?" "Where is the bathroom" and "Hello, how are you." Certainly not enough to get around. I gotta get a phrase book or something.
memorize sum other memorable ones

chimpo o sui-masu-ka?

just start yelling "Ki-sama wa shi-ne"

and refer to your self as O-re or Boku, and others as ki-sama, an-ta

[BeTheReds]

Welcome to Japan.

If you wanna meet up with me gimme a PM ok?

[iris]

Originally posted by wylin@Jan 7 2003, 01:30 AM
Originally posted by iris@Jan 6 2003, 06:53 AM
I just got to Tokyo today and I actually feel kinda rude for not knowing the language and inadvertantly forcing people to speak to me in English.   :(

I've memorized phrases like "I don't know. I can only speak English. I am so sorry." "How much is it?" "Where is the bathroom" and "Hello, how are you." Certainly not enough to get around. I gotta get a phrase book or something.
memorize sum other memorable ones

chimpo o sui-masu-ka?

just start yelling "Ki-sama wa shi-ne"

and refer to your self as O-re or Boku, and others as ki-sama, an-ta
Dood..I don't trust you... :ph34r:

Def. Eugene :)

[AliBabaIncorporated]

Originally posted by BeTheReds@Jan 6 2003, 11:53 AM
Eric,

Why you didn't say anything about coming to Japan?  We could have hung out!

Anyway, the places you went to are places frequented by foreigners... foreign bookstores, airports, hotels, bookstores in airports, etc.  The people who work there know that there are a lot of foregners with Japanese language abilities.  Come out to Saitama next time and I'll take you to a few combini or restaurants where the english flows natural.  Ask a cop for directions on the sidewalk when you are together with your Asian friends who don't speak Japanese and watch carefully who he is directing his speech toward.
Hey, sorry about that, didn't remember you were in Saitama. All the JETs I know from previous years ended up way the hell out in the middle of nowhere, so even if I came to Japan there was no real possibility of meeting up unless I went waaay outta the way.

Anyway, since when I studied in Japan I hung out with lots of HKers, and I had HK friends coming to visit to me, I'm used hanging out with Asian-looking people while at the same time being the man on point when it comes to speaking in Japanese to order food, ask directions, apologize to the bus driver that my drunk-ass friend threw up on the bus, etc. Oh yeah, and when I came this time, I crashed at my friends' apartment. I've never actually had the experience of staying in a Japanese hotel.

Originally posted by BeTheReds@Jan 6 2003, 11:53 AM
Have a conversation with people who are not paid to deal with foreigners on a daily basis.
Yeah, but that's my point. When a Japanese person has regular contact with foreigners, or is paid to deal with foreigners, he learns how not to make an ass of himself in front of foreigners. He also learns he's not in his position so that he can practice his English, or make himself more internationalized, or whatnot, he's in his position to make the customer happy so that the customer will be willing to spend lots of money, go home happy, and give positive word-of-mouth advertising about the particular business in question. Japanese society rigidly maintains the foreigner as an outsider, but as is obvious from looking at the average TOEFL score, doesn't put foreign language skill on a pedestal. It sees it as a useful job skill and a good help when you're on vacation overseas, but not the be-all and end-all of your life.

Wheras when an HK person has regular contact with foreigners, he just gets insecure. Cuz he's in a society which worships English-language ability, and so when he gets a job which makes him deal with foreigners, he starts feeling that all his social and professional legitimacy rests on using as much English as possible. So he says lots of stupid stuff in English to every foreigner he meets, sometimes not even for the foreigner's benefit, but to demonstrate to other HKers that he's good at English. (In more egregious cases, I take particular delight in asking such people, "Sorry, could you speak more clearly?" or getting a pissed off expression on my face and asking "Huh, what do you mean?" in Cantonese, just to indicate to all the onlookers he's trying to impress, "Don't be fooled, this guy's English sucks and he has no clue how to act appropriately around foreigners.")

[iris]

Do you have to tip in Japan?

[BeTheReds]

Originally posted by iris@Jan 7 2003, 12:06 PM
Do you have to tip in Japan?
Not at all.

If you try to then they might chase you down the street to give you your money back.

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by AliBabaIncorporated@Jan 7 2003, 06:55 AM
Wheras when an HK person has regular contact with foreigners, he just gets insecure. Cuz he's in a society which worships English-language ability, and so when he gets a job which makes him deal with foreigners, he starts feeling that all his social and professional legitimacy rests on using as much English as possible. So he says lots of stupid stuff in English to every foreigner he meets, sometimes not even for the foreigner's benefit, but to demonstrate to other HKers that he's good at English. (In more egregious cases, I take particular delight in asking such people, "Sorry, could you speak more clearly?" or getting a pissed off expression on my face and asking "Huh, what do you mean?" in Cantonese, just to indicate to all the onlookers he's trying to impress, "Don't be fooled, this guy's English sucks and he has no clue how to act appropriately around foreigners.")
well, seriously though, most non-chinese people in HK don't speak cantonese, and instead they speak english. so i can understand why people in the service industry would speak english to someone that looks like a foreigner.

amongst social circles though sometimes i find local HKers to expect me to want to do "foreigner" things because i'm an overseas chinese. and yeah i've had people who try to show off their "good" english by speaking english with me. and hehheh yes i also took delight in asking what they mean when i couldn't understand them. HKers have just been spoon-fed by the media that overseas chinese and expats are inherently snobby, are very successful, like to speak english even when they can speak chinese, etc etc. yeah most HKers have a bit of an inferiority complex when it comes to expats and overseas chinese.

[BeTheReds]

I have a question,

Is there a difference between Overseas Chinese and Chinese-American?

I was under the impression that Overseas Chinese means people who have chinese citizenship but live outside of China.

Chinese Americans seem to be using OC to refer to themselves.

I could technicly then refer to myself as zainiti kankokujin here in japan, which means overseas korean, but it would only confuse people even more, because there is already a gigantic overseas korean population here.

Shrug..

[YuheiCarreau]

I always thought OC referred to Chinese people who'd left China because of the Communist revolution for Taiwan, HK, the US, the UK, etc. and considered themselves citizens-in-exile; whereas CA was simply any ethnically Chinese person with American citizenship, regardless of whether or not he considers himself OC.

[kimpossible]

Well, I'll let MK or someone who is actually OC give the definitive answer but OC are Chinese that are American pretty much by citizenship alone. I know a lot of Chinese that go through the naturalization process just to get US citizenship. They own a home or two here in the US, invest and keep money in US dollars but live part time in like Taiwan and/or commute back and forth very often.

[kimpossible]

Originally posted by Hello_Hapa@Jan 7 2003, 07:56 PM
I know a lot of Chinese that go through the naturalization process just to get US citizenship.
What the hell is up with this sentence?!?

Anyhow, what I meant is that I know people who go the investment route long enough in the US just to get citizenship -- they stay just long enough, invest enough money and hire some good immigration lawyers just to obtain the citizenship and US passport then almost go back to living in Taiwan.

[BeTheReds]

I certainly don't understand that at all. Why would anyone want to be an American citizen when they don't want to be American, or rather they want to remain whatever nationality they were before? It's kind of insulting.

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by BeTheReds@Jan 7 2003, 11:18 PM
I certainly don't understand that at all. Why would anyone want to be an American citizen when they don't want to be American, or rather they want to remain whatever nationality they were before? It's kind of insulting.
insulting?
uhh... no offense but it really doesn't have anything to do with you. america is just more socially stable. it's like a security net in case everything goes to shit back home. (china attacks taiwan?)
koreans do this too, by the way. some pregnant korean women fly to the states to give birth so their kids can have american citizenship.

[kimpossible]

Hmm. Not insulted if someone wants American citizenship. It's a young nation with a proto-culture. We born citizens benefit from a system created with stolen land and slave labor. Why should we get pissed if someone else wants a better life for their family but doesn't want to give up their former land, culture or way of life?

I'm kind of half-serious, half-smartassing it tonight. No, I am neither drunk or PMSing. Maybe I just want to fight with Eugene. *poke at Yu Jin*

[SunWuKong]

Overseas Chinese are basically anyone who is ethnically and culturally Chinese who are not living in China, regardless of citizenship status. It's more of an identity than a citizenship thing. The Chinese term for it is (this is in simplified encoding, but it's traditional chinese) ÈAƒS, pronounced hua qiao. There are more than 30 million Overseas Chinese all over the world. Some are even found in Africa. Here is a chart of the population distribution of Overseas Chinese around the world. (http://overseaschineseconfederation.org/databases_popdis.html)

The trend of the Chinese Dyaspora has been mostly emigration to Southeast Asian prior to World War 2. After World War 2, western nations have been the popular choice of destination, most notably the U.S., Canada, and Australia. The Overseas Chinese in Southeast Asia have very steep and rich histories in their host nations because those communities have been generally more affluent than the local population and therefore could afford to continue being culturally very Chinese. Whereas the Overseas Chinese in western nations generally assimilate with the national identity of their host countries fairly quickly and easily.

I personally identify myself more as an Overseas Chinese than a Chinese American, because when I think of Chinese American, I think of white-washed ABCs who don't really know how to speak Chinese, and who culturally are overwhelmingly more American than Chinese. I don't really think of myself that way. Morever, the term Chinese American is really an American invented English term, while hua qiao (Overseas Chinese) is a Chinese term.

[MellowDrama]

Originally posted by Hello_Hapa@Jan 7 2003, 10:06 PM
What the hell is up with this sentence?!?

Anyhow, what I meant is that I know people who go the investment route long enough in the US just to get citizenship -- they stay just long enough, invest enough money and hire some good immigration lawyers just to obtain the citizenship and US passport then almost go back to living in Taiwan.
For real. I hung out with my best friend in Taiwan for an entire summer. His dad, an American who works for AIT (the American "embassy" in Taiwan. Note the quotation marks! :lol: ) was friends with this one businessman there. We were all invited to his house in Zhongshan. It was really nice and stuff. Me and my friend were playing with his little kids. Anyway, somehow the conversation between the adults became about the kids, and my friend's mom mentioned that the kids were American. Me and my friend just looked at each other like "WHAT?" She said, "Yeah, both the kids were born in L.A." And all the adults started chuckling. Me and my friend laughed too. So, here were these little kids who didn't speak any English and were growing up half way around the world, and they were, for all intents and purposes, as American as myself, who was born and raised in the U.S.

I wasn't insulted or felt any resentment or anything. I just thought, "That's kinda funny!" The little boy was a smart kid, too. They said they would probably send him to a U.S. university, so it's good that he's a citizen, because it would be much easier for him to get into a US college as one. (Maybe he could even be President one day! He's eligible, you know!) :lol:

Levity aside, do any of you think the mandatory conscription may have something to do with these "overseas Americans" in Korea and Taiwan? One Korean guy I know made no bones about admitting he was glad he was born an American citizen so he didn't have to do a bid in the Korean Army.

And about the whole huaqiao thing. I always thought of it as an identity. Some people like using it, others don't.

[BeTheReds]

Originally posted by Hello_Hapa@Jan 8 2003, 04:52 AM
Hmm. Not insulted if someone wants American citizenship. It's a young nation with a proto-culture. We born citizens benefit from a system created with stolen land and slave labor. Why should we get pissed if someone else wants a better life for their family but doesn't want to give up their former land, culture or way of life?

I'm kind of half-serious, half-smartassing it tonight. No, I am neither drunk or PMSing. Maybe I just want to fight with Eugene. *poke at Yu Jin*
No, I'm not insulted that someone would want American citizenship because that is a good thing when people want it and it is clear evidence that people want something that America has.

However it really bothers me when people say that they are culturally un-american and are only citizens on paper, then complain about being treated like foreigners.

I know, the people complaining about being treated like foreigners are different from the people who immigrate to the USA for economic reasons, but I kinda feel uneasy about people who get American citizenship and despise Americans. A lot of my Dad's fobby friends will talk about all their problems with all the problems in the USA, and refer to Korea as "uri-nara" or "our country." They will do it in Korean so that I don't understand fully, but still I'm not retarded. I know what they are talking about.

Oh and SWK, yea lots of foreign women do that baby havin trick.

However the US government has stopped making it easy for Korean women between 16 and 24 to get tourist visas. The only ones coming in are usually college exchange students who are less prone to get pregnant because they are educated, and also can't spontaneously decide to go to the USA as an exchange student because the application process for something like that takes time... longer than pregnancy. I really don't see how living in Koreatown LA is any better than living in Korea though.

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by BeTheReds@Jan 8 2003, 01:11 AM
However it really bothers me when people say that they are culturally un-american and are only citizens on paper, then complain about being treated like foreigners.
i don't know, the only asian americans i've known to complain about being treated as foreigners have been american born asians who consider themselves american.

[BeTheReds]

right, well certainly the asians coming over and getting citizenship but not wanting to be american does not help their cause. Non asians who have serious trouble differentiating between fobs and ABAs are not going to know the difference. The benefit of the doubt however should be that everyone you talk to in the USA is American until it has been established that they are not.

[golden_buns]

Originally posted by Hello_Hapa@Dec 2 2002, 06:34 PM
True but it's not treated with any more sincerity than a fashion accessory. But as to how it will affect you:

*ppl will speak English with you no matter how well you speak Japanese
*some ppl will want to be your friend just because you're an American
*some ppl will hate you because you're a foreigner
*most ppl will assume you don't understand any Japanese

Dude, you're going to try to find some family or distant cousins before you go, right? If you do bring some fat presents and try to avoid staying overnight because they'll go all out on being good hosts. It makes your family spend a lot of money and that isn't cool.
that sounds like a description of Korea, and how Korean relatives treat you

[golden_buns]

Originally posted by BeTheReds@Jan 7 2003, 10:11 PM
A lot of my Dad's fobby friends will talk about all their problems with all the problems in the USA, and refer to Korea as "uri-nara" or "our country." They will do it in Korean so that I don't understand fully, but still I'm not retarded. I know what they are talking about.
No, it seems that all ajossis outside Korea refer to it like that.
My dad's friends do that quite often too


Originally posted by BeTheReds@Jan 7 2003, 10:11 PM
However the US government has stopped making it easy for Korean women between 16 and 24 to get tourist visas. The only ones coming in are usually college exchange students who are less prone to get pregnant because they are educated, and also can't spontaneously decide to go to the USA as an exchange student because the application process for something like that takes time... longer than pregnancy. I really don't see how living in Koreatown LA is any better than living in Korea though.

Well, actually I think it's just not Korea but also other countries. In Colombia there's a 2 year wait to see if you can get approved for a tourist or student visa. I can really see the benefits of holding the Korean passport rather than some 3rd world country, cuz it'd be hard to get a visa to go anywhere.

Yeah, can't see much difference between being in K-Town LA or being in Korea, except for all the mexicans in the area

[Napoleon Chynamite]

Isn't this thread like ten years old? Maybe I should dig up sumthin too then.