Koreans taking soccer pride way to much..

[ImrkevinpakI]

http://www.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/worldcup/06/20/korea.rewards/index.html

Scroll to the bottom.

They call Hiddink for presidency and the korean air lines are giving him free first class flights anywhere for the next four years!

Wow....didn't know they would do this to a nonkorean person....

When i was in pusan the first week, a man and his son and couple other kids were burning american flags. This one girl asked if i wanted to burn one...she was cute by the way..maybe 17 or 18. But the point is, why all this?

[achtungbaby]

There's been a lot of anti-American sentiments brewing lately over there -- some might say the sentiments have always been there. And mostly for good reason. I don't want to [i:a3a6641938]totally [/i:a3a6641938]get into this, but everytime I hear an American -- Korean American or white American -- talk about how much America has done for S. Korea, I cringe.

For better [i:a3a6641938]and [/i:a3a6641938]for worse (and I think I have enough Korean pride to say this), S. Korea has been America's puppet for the past 40 years.

[ImrkevinpakI]

They were american puppets. No comments.

[achtungbaby]

You don't agree?

[ImrkevinpakI]

I agree.....

So what do you think the people who have antiamerican sentiments will do about it?

Tear down every frickin thing that deals with hiddink? Im suprised that the koreans are offering all the good stuff to this dutch guy. Weren't we kinda shy and nervous about doing this much to a foreigner along time ago?

[ImrkevinpakI]

Forgot to mention. Damn the koreans like myself are going crazy over the whole soccer thing. didn't you guys saw the mass of koreans in the seoul streets?

Too much pride leads to arrogance...as my hapkido master stated.

5 people died so far because of this. If we lose, its going to be a riot like the rodney king incident.

[kasia]

[quote:526e8f241d="ImrkevinpakI"]If we lose, its going to be a riot like the rodney king incident.[/quote:526e8f241d]

doubtful. koreans and blacks are two different classes of people. (i don't mean inherently).

[ImrkevinpakI]

Koreans are determined for us to win the finals. If we don't , trustme, theres going to be a riot.

[achtungbaby]

[quote:014c23669d="ImrkevinpakI"]Tear down every frickin thing that deals with hiddink? Im suprised that the koreans are offering all the good stuff to this dutch guy. Weren't we kinda shy and nervous about doing this much to a foreigner along time ago?[/quote:014c23669d]

Winning cures a host of ills.

Tom Osborne used to coach football for the Nebraska Cornhuskers and built a football powerhouse over there in Lincoln. After retiring from football, he decided to seek public office -- even though he had absolutely no political experience whatsoever (although one might argue that coaching a Division I football program is total politics) and wasn't even particularly knowledgable about the issues facing the state...but he won in a landslide over a popular Democratic incumbent :D

[ImrkevinpakI]

ok. Suits me

[achtungbaby]

[quote:ee1eee3df4="ImrkevinpakI"]5 people died so far because of this. If we lose, its going to be a riot like the rodney king incident.[/quote:ee1eee3df4]

BTW...maybe I missed something...but 5 people have died because of the celebrations, or because of incidents related to the game? I know that one man committed suicide on behalf of the team, another died of a heart attack during one of the games, but I haven't heard of people dying because of the celebrations.

The coach even remarked about how peaceful people have been. They've definitely been on their best behavior in LA.

[ImrkevinpakI]

I think it was the elders who died due to the shock of winning or the constant yelling.

[BeTheReds]

Originally posted by achtungbaby@Jun 21 2002, 10:30 AM
There's been a lot of anti-American sentiments brewing lately over there -- some might say the sentiments have always been there. And mostly for good reason. I don't want to [i:a3a6641938]totally [/i:a3a6641938]get into this, but everytime I hear an American -- Korean American or white American -- talk about how much America has done for S. Korea, I cringe.

For better [i:a3a6641938]and [/i:a3a6641938]for worse (and I think I have enough Korean pride to say this), S. Korea has been America's puppet for the past 40 years.
Well puppet or not, (though I tend to agree with puppet)

There would be no South Korea without American help.

In fact, there would be no Korea at all without American help.

There would be no Korean language.

There would be no such thing as a Korean name.

Why? The Japanese would have suceeded in erasing Korean culture and Korean language off of the face of the Earth.

Perhaps the way Americans have manipulated Seoul for the past half century to further its aims to rid the world of communism (or attempt to contain it,) Or to set up a barrier between china and japan using the peninsula are wrong and cruel, but you cannot ignore the metaphoric lifeline that the USA gave to Korea, North AND South, by defeating the Japanese.

If South Koreans really want the US to leave, then they should just ask the US to leave. Most of the soldiers that get sent there dont want to be there. If they want their men to spend 13 years in the military like their northern brothers do, then they can have a large enough army to defend against a northern all out attack.

The fact that they even have freedom to burn an american flag and protest against their own government is a testament to what america has done for them. Any antigovernment protest in the north would end up with a heap of corpses.

Yes, Seoul's relationship with Washington has not been all good, but it has also not been all bad.

[achtungbaby]

Originally posted by Bethereds@Oct 22 2002, 08:27 PM
There would be no South Korea without American help.

In fact, there would be no Korea at all without American help.

There would be no Korean language.

There would be no such thing as a Korean name.
Whoa...I'm not sure who you're giving more credit to -- Japan or the U.S. If you think the Japanese would have succeeded in eradicating the Korean people as we know it, I'd ask you to point out some similar instances in history when a people have been completely erased, the way you refer to it.

Furthermore, it's a gross simplification to say, "If the Korean government wants them out, they should just ask." First of all, even if they wanted them out, the U.S. wouldnt' leave anyway; second, the tensions and conflict stirred up over the years have been a direct result of U.S. involvement.

[BeTheReds]

Originally posted by achtungbaby@Oct 23 2002, 04:46 AM
Originally posted by Bethereds@Oct 22 2002, 08:27 PM
There would be no South Korea without American help.

In fact, there would be no Korea at all without American help.

There would be no Korean language.

There would be no such thing as a Korean name.
Whoa...I'm not sure who you're giving more credit to -- Japan or the U.S. If you think the Japanese would have succeeded in eradicating the Korean people as we know it, I'd ask you to point out some similar instances in history when a people have been completely erased, the way you refer to it.

Furthermore, it's a gross simplification to say, "If the Korean government wants them out, they should just ask." First of all, even if they wanted them out, the U.S. wouldnt' leave anyway; second, the tensions and conflict stirred up over the years have been a direct result of U.S. involvement.
What I am referring to is the colonial period from 1905 - 1945. Towards the end of that, when things started heating up because of World War II, Japanese invoked a policy called Nissen-Ittai in which their aim was to say that the Koreans and Japanese were one people (coming from Japan of course). It then becme illegal to speak Korean in public, and every Korean was forced to have a Japanese name. Their entire aim was to erase the culture and language in Korea so that Koreans would not feel that they were different than Japanese and would be loyal subjects of the emperor. If this had continued until now, that would be 100 years and 4 or 5 generations under Japanese rule. All media, newspapers, books, TV radio etc is in Japanese.. All schooling is in Japanese.

People dont remember anymore if they are Korean or not, they have Japanese names, their native language is Japanese.

The only place that Korean would survive would be in places that Koreans lived that were outside the Japanese Empire. And then they would be heavily influenced by cultures that were not Korean so in all essence, there would be fewer and fewer speakers of Korean as the years roll by, and it would be eradicated by now. A dead language living only int linguistics text books.

Other instances in history?
How many speakers of the Ainu language are alive?

Whatever happened to the French who lived in france before it was a part of rome? Where is their non latin language?

Speakers of native American languages are on a serious decline. Many native americans have european names. Few have any links with native american culture.

In Korea itself... The Korean language is the language of the Kingdom of Silla. What happened to the languages of the kingdoms of Baekche and Koguryo? When Shilla defeated the other two to unify the peninsula, their language and customs became dominant. Sure there is saturi and stuff, but that happens as a result of people living in isolation for long periods of time.

Shall I go on?


About the government asking the US to get out...

Regardless of whether or not the US would leave if asked, no one has asked. So there is no reason to complain. If asked to leave and US refuses then there is a problem.

Tensions and conflict stirred up are based primarily upon individual crimes commited by U.S. servicemen to Korean people and the policy that these cirminals will not be tried in a korean court. After that, people are angry over how dependant their economy is on the USA, and how much foreign investment there is in korea. They even get angry in sports when an australian judge makes a bad call favoring an american (double hurt a JAPANESE American) over a speedskater costing him his gold medal and his ticket out of military service.

If you are saying that the US is simply perpetuating the status quo and prolonging tong-il then I'd have to agree with you because thats what US troops are doing. If they would leave today, then tomorrow the north would attack right away. And all the namhansaram will say where is the USA? Why wont they help us? If people in south korea are communists and want to live under kim jong il's regime, then they can be anti-american.

The time for the US troops to leave Korea will be when Tong-Il is achieved.

I'm sorry, but I can't agree with you at all. America has done so much more for South Koreans than it has against them.

It may have been a gross over simplification to say that, but we could argue for months citing this event and that event and who's fault it was.

Basically, the South Korean government is corrupt and the North Korean one is too. The only people that are stopping Koreans from being united are their governments.

China, and Japan, like the status quo because it keeps Korea relatively weak and uses it as a barrier between them

If tong il happens under a democratic government in a capatalist economy, we will see Korea rise to be at least equal with japan in terms of economy.

This topic is interesting. Perhaps we should move it to another thread since we are not talking about soccer anymore.

[ren28]

Cool. I just learned stuff about Korea!

[thaite]

Soccer talk in the soccer thread. Other stuff goes somewhere else.

[achtungbaby]

Originally posted by Bethereds@Oct 22 2002, 11:07 PM
Basically, the South Korean government is corrupt and the North Korean one is too.  The only people that are stopping Koreans from being united are their governments.

China, and Japan, like the status quo because it keeps Korea relatively weak and uses it as a barrier between  them

I think this best sums up what you're trying to say:) Closing thread...we can restart in the Rant Room...