The Asian Mystique

[thaite]

here's the book. (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000EBCP9O)

And here's the interview with the author. (http://audio.wnyc.org/lopate/lopate062206a.mp3)

[Player 0]

Hmm, yes cause who would know more about the plight of Asian women then a white woman, huh.

How about an actual Asian woman who deals with this crap everyday, including the arrogant, sexist misconceptions of westerners.

[eos]

did you read the reviews at the bottom of the amazon page? these people just need to stfu.

[TB4000]

I must get this to read in the morning on the train.

[eos]

then i can borrow it to read at work.
how much you wanna bet someone will see the book and say "oh! i've read that book! it's amazing."

[TB4000]

then i can borrow it to read at work.
how much you wanna bet someone will see the book and say "oh! i've read that book! it's amazing."
Nah, my guy at work with the Chinese girlfriend will say he was a co-author on it. This dude, man...every other day he mentions that his girlfriend is Chinese. Anything in the office remotely asian is discussed, he brings it up.

[eos]

your office mates sound so charming!!

[Powerful T]

No "Asian Mystique" around here, chaps. There's only yellow-tinted or brown-tinted white women in my neck of the woods.

The ones that DO have any "Asian Mystique" are either Fob mothers or really old.

[eos]

^the fobs and old women are NOT the asian mystique. they are the antithesis of everything that's considered "magical" or "mysterious" about asian women. if you don't have long, black, silky hair, slender waist, creamy pale skin, or pretty hands, you ain't mystifying no one, no how.

[returntosender]

Hmm, yes cause who would know more about the plight of Asian women then a white woman, huh.

How about an actual Asian woman who deals with this crap everyday, including the arrogant, sexist misconceptions of westerners.

I don't think asian women are capable of seeing things the way someone outside the loop may be able to. I've listened to the author's commentaries before and I think she knows more about the sexual stereotypes and misconceptions about asian women than MOST asian women are aware of.

[Powerful T]

^the fobs and old women are NOT the asian mystique. they are the antithesis of everything that's considered "magical" or "mysterious" about asian women. if you don't have long, black, silky hair, slender waist, creamy pale skin, or pretty hands, you ain't mystifying no one, no how.

Oh. I thought it was just the inability to comprehend that the woman in question doesn't act like a white person.

Thanks, Internet!

[Anaestacia]

Hmm, yes cause who would know more about the plight of Asian women then a white woman, huh.

How about an actual Asian woman who deals with this crap everyday, including the arrogant, sexist misconceptions of westerners.

Hmm. It's easy to designate who has or has not any license to authenticity. I often wonder why people are so quick to slash at someone because they're not the right colour or background?

I know a woman who has French background, platinum blonde hair but was born and raised in the middle of China, reads, writes and speaks mandarin fluently. It's too bad Prasso doesn't seem to have that experience and the time she may have spent in the East may have been a little misguided seeing from the reviews, but these are also only reviews.

I wonder why people here are so quick to judge when they have NOT read the book?


By the way, thaite - I downloaded the interview and to my disappointment, it was not on this book but an interview with Mark Dowry's article on conservation refugees, human rights and ecoflora.

[returntosender]

Hmm. It's easy to designate who has or has not any license to authenticity. I often wonder why people are so quick to slash at someone because they're not the right colour or background?



It's the frustration of not having a voice-add to that the accumulation of authoritative commentary on Asians by whites and is pretty much the gist of it for you.

[Anaestacia]

It's the frustration of not having a voice-add to that the accumulation of authoritative commentary on Asians by whites and is pretty much the gist of it for you.

Yes, I'm imagining someone else stuffing potentially misguided words into other mixed people's mouths, and I too would be a little incensed.

But perhaps it would be nice to read the book first? Besides, if anything, your (as in everyone's) arguments would be a lot more direct and specific, more cautionary and educational for others who may not know.

[kitty]

read the first 100 pages of this book at B&N this evening... the most annoying part of this book is how it compares racial stereotypes of asians in film to hypothetical outcry if the same stereotype were paralleled to blacks.

[returntosender]

Yes, I'm imagining someone else stuffing potentially misguided words into other mixed people's mouths, and I too would be a little incensed.

But perhaps it would be nice to read the book first? Besides, if anything, your (as in everyone's) arguments would be a lot more direct and specific, more cautionary and educational for others who may not know.

Neither player, nor i, was waging a war on the author's credibility because of her, to be frank, 'race'. I'm just broadcasting a random commentary on the frustration of having to constantly read about asians through the eyes of non-asians. It's like the de facto POV these days. blacks and whites have the privilege to have their own say on who and what they are but we're not accorded the same privilege.

[Anaestacia]

Neither player, nor i, was waging a war on the author's credibility because of her, to be frank, 'race'. I'm just broadcasting a random commentary on the frustration of having to constantly read about asians through the eyes of non-asians. It's like the de facto POV these days. blacks and whites have the privilege to have their own say on who and what they are but we're not accorded the same privilege.

You're not accorded? Or not many take the initiative?

[returntosender]

You're not accorded? Or not many take the initiative?

if by accorded you mean the fair chance to represent asians in the kind of light that is agreeable to us, then I stand by what I said.

EDIT: Don't call me JoJo, but i knew you were going to say that.

[Anaestacia]

lol. I wouldn't dream of it. I understand.

[Deadpool]

From Wikipedia:

"Orientalism is the study of Near and Far Eastern societies and cultures, languages and peoples by Western scholars. It can also refer to the imitation or depiction of aspects of Eastern cultures in the West by writers, designers and artists.

In the former meaning the term Orientalism has come to acquire negative connotations in some quarters; interpreted to refer to the study of the East by Americans and Europeans shaped by the attitudes of the era of European imperialism in the 18th and 19th centuries. When used in this sense, it implies old-fashioned and prejudiced outsider interpretations of Eastern cultures and peoples.

This viewpoint was most famously articulated and propagated by Edward Said in his controversial book Orientalism (1978), which was critical of this scholarly tradition and of modern scholars including Princeton University professor Bernard Lewis."

Nothings really changed.
If anyone gets a chance, Edward Said writes some good stuff.

[Powerful T]

From Wikipedia:


STOP!

Information time!

Wikipedia: 100% Fact. No, Really. (http://forums.yellowworld.org/showthread.php?t=30526)

[Anaestacia]

Said's writing, though pioneering, was greatly one-sided and despite his arguments reinforces the very thing he goes against (or was trying to preach awareness to) = Othering.

Anthropologists and sociologists now recognize this. It was one of the greatest criticisms about his work. In other words, as much as there was an exoticism and fetishism about the foreign that the Europeans revelled in, no one at the time wrote from the other side. Or rather, English-speaking audiences, were limited in the East's (including middle east) understanding of how "foreign" and "exoticised" white culture may have been also, consequently with just as warped depictions or impressions. Then again, they weren't colonized.

[thaite]

By the way, thaite - I downloaded the interview and to my disappointment, it was not on this book but an interview with Mark Dowry's article on conservation refugees, human rights and ecoflora.

Dunno how that happened. Here's the updated link, http://audio.wnyc.org/lopate/lopate062206b.mp3
If it screws up again, let me me know, I'll host it myself.

[mrazntre]

Nah, my guy at work with the Chinese girlfriend will say he was a co-author on it. This dude, man...every other day he mentions that his girlfriend is Chinese. Anything in the office remotely asian is discussed, he brings it up.

well of course, his girl is chinese.

[Powerful T]

Edit: Dammit, nevermind. It wouldn't be funny anymore.

[mrazntre]

She's chinese?

(If you screw this comical skit up, mrazntre, I will do something outrageous.

like cry.)

you already screwed it up by saying that.


Show by hands:

Anyone else sick of how other people look at Asians? I'm a bit tired of the subject because it's just an avalanche or barrage of utter shit that comes our way. When the thought of progress hits and seems to be plausible, a slip of the mouth or unqualified ignorant opinion of a racist shows true again and then that's it, back to the drawing board.

[Anaestacia]

Yes. I'm also sick of how asians look at asians. But you forget, it's not a one way street, and we are always influenced by each other. Sometimes for the better, sometimes for the worse.

Other times, it's comical. Without the heavy politicking. 90% of the reviews of the book itself were made by caucasian-sounding names. Write your own book, argue her work in an article.

[mrazntre]

Yes. I'm also sick of how asians look at asians. But you forget, it's not a one way street, and we are always influenced by each other. Sometimes for the better, sometimes for the worse.

Other times, it's comical. Without the heavy politicking. 90% of the reviews of the book itself were made by caucasian-sounding names. Write your own book, argue her work in an article.

That's easy to say....

But consider that for one moment and think through the ordeal. Any article or book to debunk the ideas of these caucasian-sounding people will not be embraced the mainstream. It's a catch 22 for more reasons than I care to list right now.

[Anaestacia]

That's easy to say....

But consider that for one moment and think through the ordeal. Any article or book to debunk the ideas of these caucasian-sounding people will not be embraced the mainstream. It's a catch 22 for more reasons than I care to list right now.

That's equally easy to say. Which is better? To sit and cry as a collective, or sit and write as one? I'll accept cynicism with women, never with work.

[mrazntre]

I expected as much.

[Deadpool]

Then again, they weren't colonized.

Yeah. Non of those other cultures had the benefit of wide spread cultural imperialism. Go to Africa and you can find hair products with lily white blonde girls on the box. :rolleyes:

[SheridanPrasso]

Hello. I am happy to see this discussion about my book, The Asian Mystique, and to read that some of you are willing to give it a chance even though it's written by a non-Asian. A bit about me: I am a writer and independent scholar with a background in International Affairs and Anthropology who has lived, worked in and written about China, Hong Kong, Japan and Cambodia, on and off, since 1989 (and yes, I speak some of these languages also). I write for publications such as FORTUNE, The New Republic, The New Yorker, etc., and now while I am based in New York I travel to Asia about once a quarter to write for these magazines. Over the years I have observed that portrayals of Asia/Asians/AsianAmericans in Western culture, film, media, etc. were inaccurate and so I have attempted to write a book to address some of the misperceptions as well as their serious repercussions in cross-cultural relatioships, business transactions, foreign policy and the whole scope of East-West relations.
My perspective is one of an Asia specialist who grew up in the U.S. watching Hollywood movies and media and has realized, with the experience of now living in Asia and specializing in the region professionally, many of the inaccuracies that perpetuate through stereotypes. Obviously it is only a first attempt to bring some of the issues you all are familiar with to the attention of the mass market in America and elsewhere, and I am pleased to say that it has received very favorable reviews as well as course adoption at USC, Dartmouth, NYU, etc. Because this book is meant as a general introduction to stereotypes, where they come from, and why they perpetuate, primarily for people who are less familiar with the issues (people frequently come to my book readings using terms such as "Orientals" without knowing any better....), my hope is that people directly affected by them will be supportive of such an endeavor, and I am grateful to those people who have voiced that opinion here. Of course there is room in the publishing world for more personal tales from those who live such experiences, and I welcome all of you to add to the scope and breadth of this body of work. Additionally, you may be interested to know that I frequently receive emails from people of Asian origin telling me how useful my book has been in explaining some of the reasons behind the experiences they have encountered, so I hope that some of you may pick it up for that reason as well.
With best regards,
Sheridan Prasso
(sheridanprasso.com)

[Seraphfire]

Welcome Ms. Prasso! It's a pleasure to have a dialogue with the author.

I'm not surprised at the type of criticisms leveled at you. IR is a vociferously emotional topic that seems to make people lose all logical reasoning as well as bring out people with their own agendas.

On a higher level, I think some of the responses reflect in general, white America's (and some Asian Americans') continuing denial of racism and the stubborn refusal to have or even begin any dialogue on race relations.

Kudos for publishing your book. If anything, we now have another citable source for future discussions.

[SunWuKong]

i do wonder, why hasn't there been a similar book published that was written by Asian or Asian American authors?

in a way, i think that the book being written by a white author will be better received and more read by the people who really need to read it - white people.

[Dei Wong]

This seems to be a trend people writing about a race who they are not a part of it. A good question is when if ever is it O.K. to do so?

[SunWuKong]

This seems to be a trend people writing about a race who they are not a part of it. A good question is when if ever is it O.K. to do so?

race certainly gives you different perspectives, but i don't think it necessarily prohibits you from writing about certain subjects. for example, racial or ethnic stereotypes in American media are clear as day, and you need not be a minority to see it. would you say that it is less "ok" for a white man to write about the civil rights movements?

i have not read the book, but maybe Sheridan has even approached the subject of the book from a white person's perspective (if there can really be different racial perspectives to the thing), so that white people might be more receptive to it. knowing how easily many white people deny the seriousness or even the existence of racial discrimination or racism, that's certainly not a bad thing.

[SheridanPrasso]

To clarify, my perspective as the author is that of someone who has grown up in Western culture and subsequently became a specialist in Asia. My book is about the failings of Western culture, which -- as a part of it -- makes me qualified to write about where it has gone wrong.
Nonetheless, the comparison to the civil rights movement is apt (can African Americans be the only ones qualified to write about it?), but pick any region of the world and you will find academics and journalists like me, of all races, who are qualified on the basis of our profession as well as our experience. Otherwise you invalidate the very concept of journalism (and academia) itself. If you extend your supposition to its farthest extreme, you are also arguing that my colleagues who are African-American journalists should only be allowed to write articles about African-Americans but never about whites or Hispanics, and the same for, say, Ed Wong of the New York Times who is currently on assignment in Baghdad -- should you then invalidate his reporting on Iraq about Iraqis? should he only be allowed to report on issues pertaining specifically to Chinese-Americans because of his ethnic background? And should only women be allowed to write about women? How about articles/books that include women, who can write those? Or should white women be restricted to only talking to and writing about fellow white women? And then what about ethnic origins? As a part Italian myself, would I also be prohibited from discussing issues pertaining to, say, Icelanders or Germans, or risk losing credibility, because, you know, all those countries have very different cultures? How about religion? Should white half-Italian-Americans not be allowed to write about Jewish people or Muslims? But are Protestants okay? How far do you go? Yes, this is ridiculous, but once you start down this slope, where do you stop? At race, at ethnicity, at gender, at religion?
Such Jim Crow/sexist/racist attitudes would return us to a world that so many of us stuggle to change.

[thaite]

I don't know how you became aware of this thread, but thank you, Sheridan, for your participation. I learned of your book primarily from your interview on Leonard Lopate's show and found it interesting, and then from the reader comments on Amazon, which I did not find so enlightening.

Admittedly, I have not gotten around to reading your book. I went looking for it, and even though my bookstore said it was in stock, I could not find it on the shelf. Perhaps I will try again this weekend.

For the forum members, not to say that things are out of hand, but please keep things civil and take advantage of this rare opportunity to question the author. We can all gain from this.

[SunWuKong]

Such Jim Crow/sexist/racist attitudes would return us to a world that so many of us stuggle to change.

i can agree with most of what you said in your last post, except for this last part. Jim Crow-era segregationist views were meant to limit access and social mobility of black Americans. it essentially kept blacks as downtrodden second-class citizens. saying that an author should not write on a topic that is not related to his or her race, well, that's hardly the same thing. no offense, but that's a very naive comparison.

[deez nuts]

i rather pick up these two puppies:

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/1589395468.01._AA240_SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/0971580804.01._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-dp-500-arrow,TopRight,45,-64_AA240_SH20_SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg

you even get a discount when you buy both together!

http://www.amazon.com/gp/item-dispatch/ref=pd_bxgy_button/102-9699710-2848908?ie=UTF8&asin.1=0971580804&bxgyab=1&asin.2=1589395468

[TB4000]

^You'll be down like Chinatown. Pun intended.

[snailpoo]

Dead thread retrieval service here to add:

One Japanese woman she talked to had been a college student in the U.S., where she had dated American men for three- to six-month periods.

"Those guys thought she was the most agreeable, demure, obedient anything-you-would-like kind of girl because they would make a restaurant suggestion and she would say 'Oh, that sounds wonderful, oh, how great.' Well, that's part of the courtship ritual in Japan and she said the reason stereotypes are caused in that case is because the interaction is too short. If those men had known her for a longer period they would not have had that impression of her because, she said, 'I would never disagree with a man for at least three years, because control takes time.' So if all of these interactions are truncated after a period of three months, you're going to think that Japanese women are so agreeable." :eek: :biggrin:

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/books/240690_prasso15q.html

[kimpossible]

Question to Ms. Prasso, and please no smartass responses from the peanut gallery -- I'll delete them. I don't know if you prefer to go by Sheridan or Ms. Prasso so I'll default to more formal/respectful.

Ms. Prasso, I have what might be an offbeat question. What do you mean by an Asian specialist and what qualifies one in your field to be an Asian specialist? Is it oversimplified to say you report on people of a certain ethnicity or nationality? I ask mainly because the term seems so broad not only by ethnic standards but more specifically what subject(s) you specialize in when it comes to Asia or Asians.

Now that I think about it, I'll put the question to thaite as well since he's Asian and a journalist by profession.

I'm fencesitting on the book itself. Not because of your race with regard to the subject but because I feel I'm already familiar enough with the issue. I'm also newly a mother so it'll be about a year before I get the block of time I need for serious reading.

[SheridanPrasso]

Hi Kimpossible,

I use the term "Asia specialist" simply because what I do for a living is specialize in writing about Asia, and have done so for the better part of the last two decades. When I give speeches at university campuses or to various Asia-interested groups, I am sometimes introduced as an "Asia expert," and my agent and publisher do prefer that term, but to be honest I am more comfortable with "specialist," because it describes exactly what I do.
Other journalists and academics may be Russia experts, or Middle East experts -- or focus specifically on either China or Japan. But because I have a wide range of experience in writing about Asia more broadly, including reporting from 17 countries in Asia, having lived in Hong Kong, China, Japan and Cambodia, having spent quite a bit of time in Vietnam and Thailand, and having studied Mandarin, Japanese, Khmer and Bahasa Indonesia, I prefer to consider myself a regional specialist rather than a expert in one country. [This is different from being an "Asian" specialist.] As far as I know, I am the only U.S.-based writer to specialize exclusively in writing about Asia, which is not easy to do and still make a living given the current focus on Iraq and the Middle East when it comes to International News.

Academically, I have a master's degree in Social Anthropology from Cambridge University, where I wrote my thesis on Ethnicity and Nationalism among the Khmer after living in Phnom Penh for several years, and I continue to write academic papers on Asia-related topics as an independent scholar. In New York, I consult on occasion for the Asia Society and Japan Society, and also I sit on various task forces and roundtables concerning Asia at the Council on Foreign Relations. In my writing career, after being a wire service correspondent in the region for six years, I became Asia Editor at BusinessWeek magazine, in charge of all business and politico-economic coverage of the region, but since publishing my book I now write broadly for a number of national and international publications, including FORTUNE magazine, the Los Angeles Times, the New Republic, the New York Times, Travel + Leisure, the International Herald Tribune, and the South China Morning Post in Hong Kong. My most recent article is about Vietnam, where I spent a month on a reporting assignment earlier this summer, as well as Thailand and China, where I usually travel quarterly.

In all, I probably have authored more than 4,000 articles about Asia over the last 17 years, on topics including not only business and news events but cultural, political and economic analysis. You can read more than a hundred of them, and more about my book, on my website: sheridanprasso.com

Thank you for your interest in my background and my work. It would be great if those in your forum were supportive of it; I am grateful for the support of such people as Phil at angryasianman.com, who has strongly suggested on several occasions that his readers also read my book, as well as the readers of the China History Forum, where a number of people have also posted favorable and supportive responses.

With best wishes,
Sheridan

[SunWuKong]

As far as I know, I am the only U.S.-based writer to specialize exclusively in writing about Asia

you mean that as in someone who writes about different countries in Asia, right? because there's got to be other US-based writers who exclusively write about specifically certain individual countries in Asia. i would think just China or Japan alone, there would be a number of writers that only write about one of those countries.

It would be great if those in your forum were supportive of it

i'm sure some of us here do, and there are probably others who do not. this is an internet forum, after all, and we're not a hive-mind here.

[hooligan]

Here's the mystique. Why can't I end up with someone when I'm drunk?

[SunWuKong]

Here's the mystique. Why can't I end up with someone when I'm drunk?

because you're sitting in front of a computer right now?

[hooligan]

because you're sitting in front of a computer right now?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v143/hooliganucla/emot-goatse.gif