I really really don't like Ridley Scott

[loserbutt]

I just watched Blade Runner and was disgusted with how asians were depicted as the stereotypical what have you. this in addition to black hawk down which dehumanized the somalis to the extent that the audience was cheering their deaths. stylistically good but he's just plain racist in his films

[angel nympho]

Originally posted by loserbutt@Nov 16 2002, 08:42 AM
I just watched Blade Runner and was disgusted with how asians were depicted as the stereotypical what have you. this in addition to black hawk down which dehumanized the somalis to the extent that the audience was cheering their deaths. stylistically good but he's just plain racist in his films
I see what you mean. I never saw Blade Runner, but Black Hawk Down made me want to kill myself. However, "war stories" (or any story, for that matter) aren't supposed to depict truth. That's why they're just "stories." They're supposed to exaggerate whatever it takes to make the listener feel the things the character felt. I know it was sick, the way he did it, but did you really feel nothing but "omygod this is racist" during that movie?

[Fireblade]

Maybe it's because I saw blade runner a loooong time ago....

But I really didn't see anything racist about the film. Sure there was a sushi bar with a japanese person serving it, but I mean.... this isn't Benihana's... where the chefs are mexican. Usually a place that serves sushi is a japanese person. And the whole geisha thing didn't make me go... RACIST RACIST. I could be defending this, because this is like one of my all time fav. movies to watch.

However, I didn't watch Black Hawk Down. I didn't watch it, cuz someone told me that there are like explosions that go left and right through-out the film, and someone says "LOOK OUT RPG!" every 5 mins. Oh well....

But I honestly like Ridley Scot's films. Legend is one of my fav. fantasy films. (TIM CURRY ROCKED AS THE DEMON) So I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and assume he's not racist. So I'll just watch Black Hawk down and give my own opinion about the film.

However, you have to remember that Black Hawk Down is written by Mark Bowden, and the director might have been trying to portray his words. So it might be biased. And it is based on true events, so you never know.

But yea, after all this talk, I'm still thinking how it must have been a bitch for Mr. Curry to wear the Horns in Legend. oh well..... :HH:

[Pooh]

Originally posted by loserbutt@Nov 16 2002, 12:42 AM
I just watched Blade Runner and was disgusted with how asians were depicted as the stereotypical what have you. this in addition to black hawk down which dehumanized the somalis to the extent that the audience was cheering their deaths. stylistically good but he's just plain racist in his films
give it up.. you're trying way too hard

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by angel nympho@Nov 16 2002, 05:03 AM
Originally posted by loserbutt@Nov 16 2002, 08:42 AM
I just watched Blade Runner and was disgusted with how asians were depicted as the stereotypical what have you. this in addition to black hawk down which dehumanized the somalis to the extent that the audience was cheering their deaths. stylistically good but he's just plain racist in his films
I see what you mean. I never saw Blade Runner, but Black Hawk Down made me want to kill myself. However, "war stories" (or any story, for that matter) aren't supposed to depict truth. That's why they're just "stories." They're supposed to exaggerate whatever it takes to make the listener feel the things the character felt. I know it was sick, the way he did it, but did you really feel nothing but "omygod this is racist" during that movie?
i didn't feel that it was racist, but i did feel that it was another typical american war movie of ignoring the tragedy of war and glorifying the american side. and knowing the difference in the number of casualties on the two different sides, i thought the movie was just bullshit and in general in bad taste.

sure, it's just a story and it's not supposed to depict the truth. but convince someone like me that the war movie wasn't just another piece of hollywood propaganda glorifying the american war machine, then you've really got a good war movie in your hands.

[Green_Circle]

Originally posted by SunWuKung@Nov 16 2002, 03:00 PM
Originally posted by angel nympho@Nov 16 2002, 05:03 AM
Originally posted by loserbutt@Nov 16 2002, 08:42 AM
I just watched Blade Runner and was disgusted with how asians were depicted as the stereotypical what have you. this in addition to black hawk down which dehumanized the somalis to the extent that the audience was cheering their deaths. stylistically good but he's just plain racist in his films
I see what you mean. I never saw Blade Runner, but Black Hawk Down made me want to kill myself. However, "war stories" (or any story, for that matter) aren't supposed to depict truth. That's why they're just "stories." They're supposed to exaggerate whatever it takes to make the listener feel the things the character felt. I know it was sick, the way he did it, but did you really feel nothing but "omygod this is racist" during that movie?
i didn't feel that it was racist, but i did feel that it was another typical american war movie of ignoring the tragedy of war and glorifying the american side. and knowing the difference in the number of casualties on the two different sides, i thought the movie was just bullshit and in general in bad taste.

sure, it's just a story and it's not supposed to depict the truth. but convince someone like me that the war movie wasn't just another piece of hollywood propaganda glorifying the american war machine, then you've really got a good war movie in your hands.
Reminds me of back in the day when endless cowboy and Indian movies made like the 'Indians' were savages. Hollywood cranked out millions of these and everyone would scream and hollar HOORAY when the 'Indians" were killed. But now we know better, don't we???




:gross:

[achtungbaby]

Originally posted by angel nympho@Nov 16 2002, 02:03 AM
...Black Hawk Down made me want to kill myself.
Easily one of the best war movies I've ever seen. My roommate and I were still disturbed a week after we saw it.

[kimpossible]

Jeez. Maybe I'm a twinkie as well as a honky. I like Bladerunner and I love Ridley Scott movies. Alien being my fave.

Do Andriods Dream of Electric Sheep? :)

[wylin]

Originally posted by loserbutt@Nov 16 2002, 12:42 AM
I just watched Blade Runner and was disgusted with how asians were depicted as the stereotypical what have you. this in addition to black hawk down which dehumanized the somalis to the extent that the audience was cheering their deaths. stylistically good but he's just plain racist in his films
um, black hawkdown was based off a book , in the place where i watched it people didnt cheer or nething...also Blackhawkdown is one of the first documentry like movies that isnt like a plot driven dramatization... blackhawk down was there to show the horrors of war.

may ridley scotts alien pop outa ur stomach! :! also i dont give a fuck bout the somali's they were shooting at american soldiers they deserved to die. really once u pick up a weapon and fire at troops of any side u really got no pity from me. thats war people die, people get shot.

[wylin]

Originally posted by SunWuKung@Nov 16 2002, 07:00 AM
Originally posted by angel nympho@Nov 16 2002, 05:03 AM
Originally posted by loserbutt@Nov 16 2002, 08:42 AM
I just watched Blade Runner and was disgusted with how asians were depicted as the stereotypical what have you. this in addition to black hawk down which dehumanized the somalis to the extent that the audience was cheering their deaths. stylistically good but he's just plain racist in his films
I see what you mean. I never saw Blade Runner, but Black Hawk Down made me want to kill myself. However, "war stories" (or any story, for that matter) aren't supposed to depict truth. That's why they're just "stories." They're supposed to exaggerate whatever it takes to make the listener feel the things the character felt. I know it was sick, the way he did it, but did you really feel nothing but "omygod this is racist" during that movie?
i didn't feel that it was racist, but i did feel that it was another typical american war movie of ignoring the tragedy of war and glorifying the american side. and knowing the difference in the number of casualties on the two different sides, i thought the movie was just bullshit and in general in bad taste.

sure, it's just a story and it's not supposed to depict the truth. but convince someone like me that the war movie wasn't just another piece of hollywood propaganda glorifying the american war machine, then you've really got a good war movie in your hands.
go watch grave of the fireflies then. its a good war story least effects of war story.

[Commando_turned_MD]

Give me a fucking break!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Screw the Somalis. We sent soldiers over there for a peace-keeping mission to provide food and medicine, and they have the audacity to attack and kill our soldiers.....That bull-shit!!!!!!!!!!
Mr. Scott portray the movie accurately-----what the american soldiers experience.


I'm a former Special Forces operator, left active duty in May 2002 to start Med school, who has experience actual combat in Afganistan after the 9/11 incident. If Scott produce a movie regarding their extermination, would you say the same thing? B)

**This post has been eloquently edited by the webmaster. Please don't hate on anyone:)

[ChinaLama]

Rag-heads? please tone down the language.

[deez nuts]

Never saw Blade Runner ;)

But, a few Army Ranger buddies I knew from High School said BlackHawk Down was an accurate depiction of what happened in Somalia, and I don't think I'm really in a position to question it since they were there.

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by armycommando_turned_doctor@Nov 16 2002, 02:57 PM
Give me a fucking break!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Screw the Somalis. 90% of them are nothing but trash. We sent soldiers over there for a peace-keeping mission to provide food and medicine, and they have the audacity to attack and kill our soldiers.....That bull-shit!!!!!!!!!!
Mr. Scott portray the movie accurately-----what the american soldiers experience.


I'm a former Special Forces operator, left active duty in May 2002 to start Med school, who has experience actual combat in Afganistan after the 9/11 incident. If Scott produce a movie regarding the extermination of the Rag-heads, would you say the same thing? B)
that's exactly why i thought the movie was BS, because it only the American side of the story. regardless of how accurate it was, Somalis were being mulled down like ants while everytime an American soldier got a papercut, half an hour full of sad music would follow. that's BS.

and yes, if a similar movie was made about "rag-heads", i would say the same thing.

[kimpossible]

Lemme clarify. Like Ridley Scott as a director. Never saw Blackhawk Down (hate Josh Hartnett). Not down with the 'rag-head' talk.

[loserbutt]

the thing is, a thousand somali's died, and what, 18 US soldiers died? whose tragedy was worse?

[wylin]

Originally posted by loserbutt@Nov 16 2002, 02:01 PM
the thing is, a thousand somali's died, and what, 18 US soldiers died? whose tragedy was worse?
those were combatants the moment u pick up a gun with the intent to kill another person u really are fair game. Also well work it out like this an american life is worth (take GDP/ # of people) about 20 grand versus a somolli life about 20$ ends up being a greater american tragedy. and the wasted lives of those brave young men are a greater tragedy to me then sum uneducated drugged killers working for a illegal weapons and theif of his own peoples aid food like aideed.

The real tragedy is that the UN/Pakistan Bell AH-1 Cobra's and fired upon the clan home during a clan meeting (that was discussing peace and not interfearing w/ the humanitarian mission) of the warlord whose troops were engaged in conflict with the americans because they wanted revenge for the massacre at their clan home... thats the real reason that Aideed and his fallowers where hell bent on killing americans. go watch the history channel documentry. The other big tragedy is that aideed and his fallowers paraded the bodies of those dead soldiers in the streets and descrated the bodies of 2 snipers who gave their lives trying to save the injured blackhawk pilot (the one who got captured and survived). Another is the administration just pulling out of the humanitariam mission over casualties, like scared children and not letting the military enact a toll on aideed and his clan in retaliation (which the soldiers wanted) hence wasting the lives of those soldiers in the first place.

[Pooh]

Originally posted by SunWuKung@Nov 16 2002, 12:16 PM

that's exactly why i thought the movie was BS, because it only the American side of the story.

The book was based on research down on both sides of the conflict. Give it a read if you haven't. History textbooks don't even give both sides of the conflict and you expect a movie to?


Originally posted by loserbutt@Nov 16 2002, 02:01 PM
the thing is, a thousand somali's died, and what, 18 US soldiers died? whose tragedy was worse?

I think the number of Somali's that were killed is not even known to this day, but think about the tens of thousands of Somalis that died as a result of Aidid's rule.

But like the book says, this whole mission was a huge clusterfuck from the beginning. The administration wanted something done, but they didn't give the mission full support.

[ChinaLama]

Originally posted by wylin@Nov 16 2002, 10:33 PM
Originally posted by loserbutt@Nov 16 2002, 02:01 PM
the thing is, a thousand somali's died, and what, 18 US soldiers died? whose tragedy was worse?
those were combatants the moment u pick up a gun with the intent to kill another person u really are fair game. Also well work it out like this an american life is worth (take GDP/ # of people) about 20 grand versus a somolli life about 20$ ends up being a greater american tragedy. and the wasted lives of those brave young men are a greater tragedy to me then sum uneducated drugged killers working for a illegal weapons and theif of his own peoples aid food like aideed.

The real tragedy is that the UN/Pakistan Bell AH-1 Cobra's and fired upon the clan home during a clan meeting (that was discussing peace and not interfearing w/ the humanitarian mission) of the warlord whose troops were engaged in conflict with the americans because they wanted revenge for the massacre at their clan home... thats the real reason that Aideed and his fallowers where hell bent on killing americans. go watch the history channel documentry. The other big tragedy is that aideed and his fallowers paraded the bodies of those dead soldiers in the streets and descrated the bodies of 2 snipers who gave their lives trying to save the injured blackhawk pilot (the one who got captured and survived). Another is the administration just pulling out of the humanitariam mission over casualties, like scared children and not letting the military enact a toll on aideed and his clan in retaliation (which the soldiers wanted) hence wasting the lives of those soldiers in the first place.
and a last tragedy is the sissy American public that was so rah-rah over SENDINg the troops over to deliver food, and then so whiny about how a few men died, "SEND THEM BACK! SEND THEM BACK!"

Ok, no offense meant for the deceased, but Somalia is the reason why Americans are so wussy about sending troops overseas to do their dirty work, not Vietnam. Sheesh, if the American public had been that squeamish in 1991, then Kuwait would still be a part of Iraq.

[Commando_turned_MD]

Anyone who has friends or families killed in combat will display the emotion that I have:pure hatred. I have friends who had friends killed during that conflict. Although I was never in Somalia, I can relate to these warriors.

One of my good friend was killed in Afganistan.(We both attend USC--Trojans--- and graduate in 94)
His squad was ambushed. Although his squad manage to evade the enemy, he wasn't so lucky.

Scott's movie was a tribute to the fallen soldiers. Sure it's one sided, protag--American and Antag--Somalians, but as in any movie, you need those elements. Check out any action flicks and you'll find the same thing. There are NO elements of Racism in the Blackhawk..Just your mine playing tricks........


:pissed:

**(ahem)**

[loserbutt]

dude, you just put a dollar value on human life. go away and fawn somewhere else

[TyroneK(prettypretty)]

First: Ridley Scott blew his artistic wad in Blade Runner. He hasn't been close to reaching those cinematic heights since. Everything else has been a triumph of style and hype over real movie making. Up until last year, I kept hoping for redemption, but Hannibal just made me want to cry due to its sheer hamfisted ludicrousness and Gladiator was nothing but a perfume commercial with swordfights. I haven't seen Black Hawk Down yet, but my expectations aren't very high.

Second: Armycommando, none of us mean to trivialize the sacrifices that your friends made. We just hope that Americans like you and me can get over our hate and see things clearly. If we fail to do so as a nation, nothing will have been accomplished by your friends' sacrifice except the same self-perpetuating cycle of misunderstanding, hatred, violence and suffering that has marked all US actions in the third world since the 1900's. If we fail to see the hubris and arrogance in our actions, we will repeat them and never get anything positive accomplished. Would killing more Somalis have solved anything? Probably not. War is as much politics as fighting and the political momentum wasn't there to do a proper clean-up job. Should we have even been there doing anything else but handing out food? I'm still not quite sure.

Anyways, I don't want to contribute to a flame war. I just wanted to clear things up before everybody got all hostile.

[kimpossible]

Originally posted by armycommando_turned_doctor@Nov 16 2002, 05:00 PM
Anyone who has friends or families killed in combat will display the emotion that I have:pure hatred. I have friends who had friends killed during that conflict. Although I was never in Somalia, I can relate to these warriors.

Uh-huh. Both my grandfathers served in WWII. My father served for 20+ years working law enforcement and counter-terrorism and my mother served 10+ years.

I think I like that fact that if you were still serving you'd probably have to salute my mom.

[wylin]

Originally posted by loserbutt@Nov 16 2002, 05:06 PM
dude, you just put a dollar value on human life. go away and fawn somewhere else

why is that sum immortal sin? iyep human beings always have a dollar value, how much their payed, what part of the GDP they are, opportunity costs, wages, etc. everything can be bought or sold.humans, cars, life, death, etc... period.

[Commando_turned_MD]

In reference to Hello-Hapa, I served 8 years on Active duty in the US Army. I was a member with the 1ST Special Force group out of FT. Lewis, WA. I resign my commission in May 20, 2002 to attend Med school----UCLA. My day was an officer in the South Vietnamese Army, so military pride runs in the family. Military and Law enforcement rank structure is completely different. There are NO saluting. If you're mother were in the Army with 10 plus years, I will still out rank her. Females are NOT permit in combat arms, so promotion is a lot slower. I was a promotable Major when I left the service.

China Lama, how can you call yourself an American. If you feel the American govt is so skew then leave!!!!!!! No one is forcing you stay in America. You critize the American public because of there actions, but enjoy the freedom the Americans political system affords you. What a hypocrite. :pissed: You should be ashamed of yourself.

Here's a quote from "A few good men" that illustrate this point so vividly:
"I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a weapon and stand at post"

VBKAO addressess several important points.....Well put. ;)

Ridley movie portray the American conflict accurately. The soldiers followed Rules of engagement when engaging the enemies. If you don;t like Ridley Scott, thats fine..If you think his movies stink..That's fine.......If you think he should stop making movies....That's fine. But when critizes the American Soldiers actions in Somalia, you are a traitor to this country. You insult every American who have served this country: past, present, and future.

[loserbutt]

woohoo I'm a traitor then

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by Pooh@Nov 16 2002, 05:44 PM
Originally posted by SunWuKung@Nov 16 2002, 12:16 PM

that's exactly why i thought the movie was BS, because it only the American side of the story.

The book was based on research down on both sides of the conflict. Give it a read if you haven't. History textbooks don't even give both sides of the conflict and you expect a movie to?

doesn't make it any less BS.

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by armycommando_turned_doctor@Nov 16 2002, 08:00 PM
Anyone who has friends or families killed in combat will display the emotion that I have:pure hatred. I have friends who had friends killed during that conflict. Although I was never in Somalia, I can relate to these warriors.

One of my good friend was killed in Afganistan.(We both attend USC--Trojans--- and graduate in 94)
His squad was ambushed.  Although his squad manage to evade the enemy, he wasn't so lucky.

Scott's movie was a tribute to the fallen soldiers. Sure it's one sided, protag--American and Antag--Somalians, but as in any movie, you need those elements. Check out any action flicks and you'll find the same thing. There are NO elements of Racism in the Blackhawk..Just your mine playing tricks........

:pissed:
yeah fine great. think about the 4 million people who have starved to death over the years because of the US embargo. and yes it was UN that came up with that figure. hatred you say...?

i personally didn't think Black Hawk Down was racist. i just don't like war movies that glorifies the american war machine.

go ahead and hate me too because in a perverse way i wish more american soldiers were killed. then perhaps the american public would realize we shouldn't be in the middle east in the first place.

and oh, if i have friends and relatives that died in combat, i'd probably hate the US government instead.

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by armycommando_turned_doctor@Nov 17 2002, 01:56 AM
China Lama, how can you call yourself an American. If you feel the American govt is so skew then leave!!!!!!! No one is forcing you stay in America. You critize the American public because of there actions, but enjoy the freedom the Americans political system affords you. What a hypocrite.  :pissed: You should be ashamed of yourself.
criticising is what the forefathers encouraged all americans to do when they wrote the first amendment.

[ChinaLama]

Originally posted by armycommando_turned_doctor@Nov 17 2002, 06:56 AM

China Lama, how can you call yourself an American. If you feel the American govt is so skew then leave!!!!!!! No one is forcing you stay in America. You critize the American public because of there actions, but enjoy the freedom the Americans political system affords you. What a hypocrite. :pissed: You should be ashamed of yourself.

What I said has NOTHIng to do w/ 1) the American gov't (since i clearly said the American PUBLIC) 2) the American public WAS squeamish over Somalia...that IS deplorable because how can a country be great, how can a country be prepared to defend itself, when double-digit deaths seem to produce public clamor for them to withdraw 3) wylin's the one who said the administration was chicken. what are your words for him?


If you honestly think it's wrong to criticize the shortcomings of fellow Americans, why don't you 1) take an AK-47 and shoot Jerry Falwell and right-wing Republicans, since they speak to no end about "the moral failings of the West" and American's cultural decline?

2) go live w/ the "Rag-Heads" you profess not to fond of, since you seem to be against DEMOCRACY, the very IDEA of America, since you think any criticism of America or Americans should be rewarded by deportation or ostracization? Gee...actually, I guess i should be HAPPY since you'd rather drive me out of the country rather than just shoot me or disappear me. But maybe it's because of American laws that forbid you to do that that you'd rather just see me leave.

Hey, how's this since you're a doctor?

"PHYSICIAN, HEAL THYSELF!"


P.S. Thank you, SWK.

[TyroneK(prettypretty)]

See what Ridley Scott's post-Blade Runner movies do? How many more threads must he destroy before we do something about him?

[lethal]

You can read the original story published in the Philadelphia Inquirer in its entirety here:

http://inquirer.philly.com/packages/somalia/

It is 29 chapters plus an epilogue with many DVD-type extras. Its a good, but not exactly quick read.

[deez nuts]

Military and Law enforcement rank structure is completely different. There are NO saluting. If you're mother were in the Army with 10 plus years, I will still out rank her.


Well you're going to med school now, you gonna be taking orders from professors, residents and the attendings, most with no military background or rank. It's not the military no more.

Better learn to keep that bitterness and ego in check, cuz being year one med school student makes you everybody's bitch.

And using the term "ragheads" will only leave you a mark on your folder later on in residency. You're gonna bump into Muslim med students and MD's also.

And honestly not belittling your military accomplishments, chill.

Props for being accepted into UCLA School of Medicine and good luck in med school.

[Commando_turned_MD]

You're absolutely correct Chasiubao_Boy. Now that I'm in Med school, I have to keep my ego and bitterness in check. There are many bad derogatory terms that I picked up while over in Afganistan....It seems the only time these terms work their way back into my vocabulary is when I'm extremely perturb. Although it's no excuse, its part of human develope. You're familiar with the Freudian Slip, correct?

I do have many muslim colleagues..............As long as they dont force their veiws on others, I have no problems with them at all.

Sure there many injustice in this country, but it's reality.

The things that gets my blood boiling are unloyal americans. They can be black, white, asian, arabic, or russians. I strongly feel that anyone who reside in this country should honor the American values and norms----because we enjoy Democracy. Thats why we're all here.

But you argue this from a different perspective, i.e, Our forefather came here to free themselves from religious persecution etc....etc.....etc..........

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by armycommando_turned_doctor@Nov 17 2002, 02:13 PM
The things that gets my blood boiling are unloyal americans. They can be black, white, asian, arabic, or russians. I strongly feel that anyone who reside in this country should honor the American values and norms----because we enjoy Democracy. Thats why we're all here.
so "democracy" means to you to shut the hell up and not complain?

[deez nuts]

Originally posted by armycommando_turned_doctor@Nov 17 2002, 02:13 PM
You're absolutely correct Chasiubao_Boy. Now that I'm in Med school, I have to keep my ego and bitterness in check. There are many bad derogatory terms that I picked up while over in Afganistan....It seems the only time these terms work their way back into my vocabulary is when I'm extremely perturb. Although it's no excuse, its part of human develope. You're familiar with the Freudian Slip, correct?

I do have many muslim colleagues..............As long as they dont force their veiws on others, I have no problems with them at all.


No problem man. I hear ya. I know many relatives and friends that served in the military. A few of my cousins are West Point grads. They get props and respects from me for doing service.

I can kinda see where you coming from also. I've also lost a close friend and the husband of my cousin in the wake of 9/11. I hold some bitterness, anger and sadness. He wasn't going to war that morning just to work in the World Trade Center.

It's ok to disagree with peeps, but just keep you're emotions in check. I know it's hard, cuz I have went off on discussions about 9/11 here on YW. Just remember man, how you represent initially is how people perceive you here on the boards since most likely they won't have that opportunity to get to know ya in real life.

[thaite]

I didn't feel that Blackhawk Down the movie was particularly racist in any way. I think it made good attempts to explain the unfortunate situation to the average US person who was probably ignored it at the time it was happening. Like most films, I think it fell short of the book. I think Mark Bowden did an incredible job of telling the story, explaining quite bluntly the horror of the battle, the Somalian perspective and the failure of the US policy, and I don't think I'll debate the merits if you haven't read it.

[ChinaLama]

thx CSB for the calming words.

Armycommando: While I can understand why you may feel bitter, and I realize sometimes I think the same way (why don't ppl who whine about America just LEAVE?), I think it's important, in these situations

1) see what's being argued. is it something fundamental, like criticism of democratic values, or is it a criticism that is meant to strengthen the country?

2) does the critic really HATE America or does the critic merely think America is imperfect AND CAN BE CHANGED?

3) if the critic IS American, then why can't he make fun of other Americans and therefore himself? That's not disloyal; it's self-deprecating humor. If you think those people are despicable, then you'd have to empty half the country.

[achtungbaby]

Originally posted by SunWuKung@Nov 16 2002, 12:16 PM
Originally posted by armycommando_turned_doctor@Nov 16 2002, 02:57 PM
Give me a fucking break!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Screw the Somalis. 90% of them are nothing but trash. We sent soldiers over there for a peace-keeping mission to provide food and medicine, and they have the audacity to attack and kill our soldiers.....That bull-shit!!!!!!!!!!
Mr. Scott portray the movie accurately-----what the american soldiers experience.


I'm a former Special Forces operator, left active duty in May 2002 to start Med school, who has experience actual combat in Afganistan after the 9/11 incident. If Scott produce a movie regarding the extermination of the Rag-heads, would you say the same thing?  B)
that's exactly why i thought the movie was BS, because it only the American side of the story. regardless of how accurate it was, Somalis were being mulled down like ants while everytime an American soldier got a papercut, half an hour full of sad music would follow. that's BS.

and yes, if a similar movie was made about "rag-heads", i would say the same thing.
Wow, you really didn't like Blackhawk down? While the movie is told from the American point of view, I thought it was far, far different from how it was being publicized and hyped, as some heroic, chest-thumping, patriotic movie -- even more surprising because the movie came right after 9/11, when filmmakers had openly talked about making pro-America movies. If anything, I thought it was Scott's indictment of bonehead foreign policy.

[achtungbaby]

Originally posted by Chasiubao_Boy@Nov 17 2002, 11:32 AM
It's ok to disagree with peeps, but just keep you're emotions in check.
Just to echo CSB's wisdom...

...no personal attacks, goddamnit! I hate having to edit posts :angry:

Please refer to the Community Forum Guidelines (http://forums.yellowworld.org/index.php?act=ST&f=22&t=149)...

[DaBestSpooner]

Originally posted by loserbutt@Nov 17 2002, 02:37 AM
woohoo I'm a traitor then
traitors unite!

[DaBestSpooner]

Originally posted by armycommando_turned_doctor@Nov 17 2002, 01:56 AM
In reference to Hello-Hapa, I served 8 years on Active duty in the US Army. I was a member with the 1ST Special Force group out of FT. Lewis, WA. I resign my commission in May 20, 2002 to attend Med school----UCLA. My day was an officer in the South Vietnamese Army, so military pride runs in the family. Military and Law enforcement rank structure is completely different. There are NO saluting. If you're mother were in the Army with 10 plus years, I will still out rank her. Females are NOT permit in combat arms, so promotion is a lot slower. I was a promotable Major when I left the service.

China Lama, how can you call yourself an American. If you feel the American govt is so skew then leave!!!!!!! No one is forcing you stay in America. You critize the American public because of there actions, but enjoy the freedom the Americans political system affords you. What a hypocrite. :pissed: You should be ashamed of yourself.

Here's a quote from "A few good men" that illustrate this point so vividly:
"I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a weapon and stand at post"

VBKAO addressess several important points.....Well put. ;)

Ridley movie portray the American conflict accurately. The soldiers followed Rules of engagement when engaging the enemies. If you don;t like Ridley Scott, thats fine..If you think his movies stink..That's fine.......If you think he should stop making movies....That's fine. But when critizes the American Soldiers actions in Somalia, you are a traitor to this country. You insult every American who have served this country: past, present, and future.
so how do you feel about the american govt funding middle eastern terrorists and training the likes of osama bin laden and his goons to fight the soviets, and funding sadaam hussein to fight iran and the end result of getting bit back in the ass after US cuts them off because the government had no use for them any more? Oh yes and the assinations of leaders of various asian, south american, and middle eastern countries and replacing them with puppets?

add me to the traitor list please!

[Pooh]

Originally posted by DaBestSpooner@Nov 17 2002, 03:51 PM
so how do you feel about the american govt funding middle eastern terrorists and training the likes of osama bin laden and his goons to fight the soviets, and funding sadaam hussein to fight iran and the end result of getting bit back in the ass after US cuts them off because the government had no use for them any more? Oh yes and the assinations of leaders of various asian, south american, and middle eastern countries and replacing them with puppets?

add me to the traitor list please!
So instead.. we could wait around for Sadaam to actually use whatever goodies he has hiding there to start WWIII? When the US was in its "screw the rest of the world isolationist" mode, WW 1 and 2 were both started and we were dragged into both of them anyway. Since then, it seems like the US has been put in charge of policing the world as well as adopting the idea of an enemy of an enemy is a friend. And of course, there is the issue of oil. Face it, the US is going to get into everyone's business, and some I agree with and some I don't. Tough shit

[loserbutt]

bah, enemy of the state and spy game bored me out of my mind

[kimpossible]

Originally posted by armycommando_turned_doctor@Nov 17 2002, 11:13 AM
You're absolutely correct Chasiubao_Boy. Now that I'm in Med school, I have to keep my ego and bitterness in check. There are many bad derogatory terms that I picked up while over in Afganistan....It seems the only time these terms work their way back into my vocabulary is when I'm extremely perturb. Although it's no excuse, its part of human develope. You're familiar with the Freudian Slip, correct?

I'll make you a deal. If you can ease off on passing judgment on people and the racial slurs, I'll stop my smartass retorts. I'm sure you've seen action and as you have already seen I'm from a multi-generational military family. I'm not disrespectful of men and women in the service. But by your reckoning, WWII vets who fought the Japanese would have earned the right to call me a Jap or Nip because they picked up derogatory terms during combat.

Ease up. Get to know us. Let us get to know you. Fair enough? *crosses fingers* I'll say pretty please if that will help.

[Commando_turned_MD]

Originally posted by Hello_Hapa@Nov 18 2002, 04:20 PM

I'll make you a deal. If you can ease off on passing judgment on people and the racial slurs, I'll stop my smartass retorts. I'm sure you've seen action and as you have already seen I'm from a multi-generational military family. I'm not disrespectful of men and women in the service. But by your reckoning, WWII vets who fought the Japanese would have earned the right to call me a Jap or Nip because they picked up derogatory terms during combat.

Ease up. Get to know us. Let us get to know you. Fair enough? *crosses fingers* I'll say pretty please if that will help.
It's a deal Hello_Hapa.. :P
I'll conduct myself in a professional manner. :lol:
I compose those post in the heat of the moment (bad thing to do)..I guess I should have cool down first. I do regret using that type of language, especially in the presents of a lady..

So I do apologize for those racial slurs I've made :blush:

[applehead]

Originally posted by armycommando_turned_doctor@Nov 17 2002, 11:13 AM
You're absolutely correct Chasiubao_Boy. Now that I'm in Med school, I have to keep my ego and bitterness in check. There are many bad derogatory terms that I picked up while over in Afganistan....It seems the only time these terms work their way back into my vocabulary is when I'm extremely perturb. Although it's no excuse, its part of human develope. You're familiar with the Freudian Slip, correct?

I do have many muslim colleagues..............As long as they dont force their veiws on others, I have no problems with them at all.

Sure there many injustice in this country, but it's reality.

The things that gets my blood boiling are unloyal americans. They can be black, white, asian, arabic, or russians. I strongly feel that anyone who reside in this country should honor the American values and norms----because we enjoy Democracy. Thats why we're all here.

But you argue this from a different perspective, i.e, Our forefather came here to free themselves from religious persecution etc....etc.....etc..........
i have a question.

what's your idea of an unloyal american?

[thaite]

John Walker Lindh

[Rookie]

Awesome Debate.

[pfc beansprout]

timmy mcveigh....he was in the army too..... :unsure:

[applehead]

aren't they more like, psycho-paths??

[wylin]

John Walker Lindh

i'd say more religious freak kinda like the catholic and protestant terrorists in northern ireland. sumone willing to fight and die for their religion. actually i think hez kinda admirable, islam cleaned up his life, and he decided to fight for what he believed in.