sunleebeam's ramblings.

[lee duk sun]

one interesting tour stop. this site, in my short lived visit, has only amplified the truths of asians being harder on other asians. you think you're a place where people can come and debate freely without personal attacks? i think not! i've been all over this fucking site, and i've not seen more personal attacks and the unnecessary dissecting of wording as i have in here. furthermore, i've not encountered a site or a place that has more pent up anger ready to pounce on any person who has the nerve to say it as they see it, and i'm not just talking about what i've seen towards myself. i haven't witnessed more superiority complexes or more inferiority hate projecting in a short span of time than in here.

it's really sad because there are obviously some interesting and good people in here with some insightful ideas. and this place COULD BE a fabulous place for people to learn more about the hardships, experiences and issues that asian americans+ have to go through and take on. but the truth is, there's no wonder why a lot of asian americans end up emotionally migrating to other cultures... this culture is so unneccesarily competitive. why do you feel the need to conquer one another? and there's a lot of supremicy attitudes in denial, to boot.

unfortunately what i've learned in my trip to yellow world mimics what i've experienced in my trip to korea. there's a lot of culture, a lot to learn, and a lot of history at my hands, but it's just not worth it to fight through the current the way you're forced–especially if you are strong minded and not anal enough to double-take your every step.

i came here hoping for a positive and supportive source to bounce ideas off of, to learn from, and to debate my opinions–and maybe even shift them if it seemed fit. and you know what? rather than people wanting to help intelligently debate a problem, people are more apt to tear you to pieces and pick apart why you're wrong, without giving the proper support behind their own arguments of why they are right.

so continue on with your name calling, your public displays of dissatisfaction, your 'better than thou' attitudes, and whatever else it is you do to separate yourselves instead of join. you're only hurting the people who you claim to sympathize with. and you're only proving me right by doing so.

the african americans bond together, they join and fight their battles as one. they try to educate each other in ways that are non-insulting and positive. maybe the asian americans need to take a page from their book.

i wish you all the best of luck. xOx

[rice cracker]

kbye.

[Chad]

you came here with specific complaints about your visit to korea and made some generalizations that were bound to offend some people. i'm sorry i couldn't back you up and be "supportive" and say: "yeah you're right koreans are horrible mean people and so many of them get plastic surgery etc. "
sorry but i'm just not going to do that. think about this: would i go to a white forum and say to them, "hey guys im on a visit to britain and people here are so rude to me. ive had some bad experiences in the past with white people but since you guys are americans like me i was hoping you could give me some support here."
what kind of response do you think i would get?

what i'm getting from this is that you expected the forum members to be self-hating Asian Americans.

[LaiSteve66]

i've not encountered a site or a place that has more pent up anger ready to pounce on any person who has the nerve to say it as they see it

buwahahahahaaha, Is this the only Asian themed site you've been to? I've been to sites infested with 'Angry Asian Men' who wouldn't take kindly the idea of you going out with a White guy. Sites with racist people who demonize White men, sites where people are divided by country of origin and troll other ethnic subsections, and sites where people are fight over Communism and call each "traitor" and "communist dog/pig" etc and plenty of the things you speak of amplified ten times over.

Trust me, YW is one of the more calmer sites and there are MUCH nastier Lion's dens out there.

[raacluse]

When participating in a forum, like this, you've gotta develop a thick skin, or some immunity from ad hominem or personal attacks. Unfortunately, it's a characteristic of such forums, the hypercritical abuse that can sometimes erupt.

That said, YW ain't too bad, as such forums go. Compare this to the granddaddy of them all, S.C.A.A. (which started on Usenet, I think in the 80s). Over the years, the vitriol has repeatedly driven people away. (That, and the trolls and nutcakes...)

[BTW, S.C.A.A. = soc.culture.asian.american. It's now accessed as a Google group.]

[SunWuKong]

one interesting tour stop. this site, in my short lived visit, has only amplified the truths of asians being harder on other asians.

you're right. you were really hard on the people you're meeting in Korea. saying your experience is the worst you've had and how so many of them just simply must have gotten cosmetic surgeries.

i mean, shit, when you make comments about the people in Korea, you're just having the "nerve to say it as they see it", but when we reply to your comments, we're "pouncing" with our "pent up anger"? double standard anyone?


the african americans bond together, they join and fight their battles as one. they try to educate each other in ways that are non-insulting and positive. maybe the asian americans need to take a page from their book.

oh give me a break. tell me, are your black friends telling you how much black people "bond together", and "join and fight their battles as one"??? if not, i suggest you go and ask them just how much they "bond together". and no, i'm not trying to disrespect the African American community. i'm making a comment on how you're generalising them.

[deez nuts]

yeh we're a mean bunch. sorry you couldn't take it. hope you win at life. take care of yourself.

[thaite]

...you think you're a place where people can come and debate freely without personal attacks? i think not! i've been all over this fucking site, and i've not seen more personal attacks and the unnecessary dissecting of wording as i have in here. furthermore, i've not encountered a site or a place that has more pent up anger ready to pounce on any person who has the nerve to say it as they see it...

The debate is free, no one's censored you. I agree that some of the personal attacks against you were unwarranted, but you're an adult. As was already said, there are other AA sites out there. This place is a playground. comparatively, so have fun.

the african americans bond together, they join and fight their battles as one. they try to educate each other in ways that are non-insulting and positive. maybe the asian americans need to take a page from their book.


Yeah, because the Black people are all of one mind and one heart, aren't they? They always get along and agree with each other, right? Good luck with that rosy outlook. Ignoring the reality is always productive.

[returntosender]

Bye. Me miss you lung time.

kbye.

lol.

[kimpossible]

holy shit. go away for a week and miss so much.

[Kennyb]

Welcome to the internet baby... Hate it or love it mate.

[LaiSteve66]

you've gotta develop a thick skin

This is definitely a must, hope she doesn't take up online gaming anytime soon.

[robotic]

oh sun lee, don't give up on yw just yet ._. there are still some great thoughts circulating here.

[mr. x]

Welcome to the internet baby... Hate it or love it mate.
we hates it :frown:

and we loves it :redface:

WE NEEDS THE PRECIOUS:eek:

sun lee, like it has been mentioned already, you've obviously never been to another asian forum if this has the most flames you've seen this side of a woodfired pizza kitchen.

[thaite]

mmmmm, woodfired pizza

[kasia]

moving to feedback & support.

[BeTheReds]

I dare you to quit. You need us! You're already hooked. If you didn't care about us and just wanted to leave, then you'd do it silently and be forgotten and relegated to the tiny blip of distraction that so many before you have been relegated to. But now.. look at you.. threatening us that you're going to quit. Ohh no, we better change our ways or else sunbeam lady is gonna never come back. Please, you'll be back. You know it. I know it. You're reading all the responses to this thread this very moment. You're thinking, yeah, that showed them.

Anyway you learned a lot. One day I hope you come to terms with yourself and learn to digest what you've learned and also that you need to see where other people are coming from rather than focusing on yourself if you want to have a two way conversation with people. And also, what you percieve as attacks, arent. If you actually don't come back, then seeyaz. Enjoy the rest of your time in Korea, although it seems to me you are already want to have a shitty time no matter what.

[yoMAMA]

kbye.

best reply ever.

:tongue:

[lee duk sun]

I dare you to quit. You need us! You're already hooked. If you didn't care about us and just wanted to leave, then you'd do it silently and be forgotten and relegated to the tiny blip of distraction that so many before you have been relegated to. But now.. look at you.. threatening us that you're going to quit. Ohh no, we better change our ways or else sunbeam lady is gonna never come back. Please, you'll be back. You know it. I know it. You're reading all the responses to this thread this very moment. You're thinking, yeah, that showed them.

Anyway you learned a lot. One day I hope you come to terms with yourself and learn to digest what you've learned and also that you need to see where other people are coming from rather than focusing on yourself if you want to have a two way conversation with people. And also, what you percieve as attacks, arent. If you actually don't come back, then seeyaz. Enjoy the rest of your time in Korea, although it seems to me you are already want to have a shitty time no matter what.

yes, i am reading this now and it wasn't a threat. i'm basically calling people on their ways, but apparently it's falling on deaf ears. and this is why after i make a couple more points i AM going. so feel free to say what you want knowing i won't be back to defend myself ;-)

and i think it's wrong for you to assume that i'm not at terms with myself. i don't have this problem communicating with other people on the internet, and it's interesting that in those places, it's a mix of different types of people from all over the world rather than just the people i'm supposed to have more in common with...

i'm also NOT having a shitty time everyday. i DO have a thick skin, despite anyone else's quick judgment, because despite the prejudice i DO receive here, i get back out into their world every day and find something cool to do by myself and struggle through it. i take photographs of what i find beautiful or important to me. it's just that some days it's harder to take. and i would expect people on here to understand that better, rather than say, "well, it must be YOUR fault. what are YOU doing wrong?" please! that kind of attitude reminds me of the parent whose kid comes home from school and says the kids are picking on him...

and i dare YOU to go through some of the threads i've been in and tell me that you see no personal attacks.

i also find it interesting that everyone on here is telling me that i need to develop a thicker skin because all the other asian american boards are worse... hmmm... doesn't that prove my point that the asians are the hardest on asians? why is that?

i think a big problem that yourself and a lot of people on here who i won't bother to respond to is that EVERYONE has a lot to learn. you say i have a lot to learn, but i know where my education weens and where i need to strengthen it. many people on here seem to think they're authorities on subjects that are so off the mark from the point, just to sound like they know what they're saying.

anyway, the board obviously works for you and some people. good for you–and i mean that nonsarcastically. but it don't work for me.

you came here with specific complaints about your visit to korea and made some generalizations that were bound to offend some people. i'm sorry i couldn't back you up and be "supportive" and say: "yeah you're right koreans are horrible mean people and so many of them get plastic surgery etc. "
sorry but i'm just not going to do that. think about this: would i go to a white forum and say to them, "hey guys im on a visit to britain and people here are so rude to me. ive had some bad experiences in the past with white people but since you guys are americans like me i was hoping you could give me some support here."
what kind of response do you think i would get?

what i'm getting from this is that you expected the forum members to be self-hating Asian Americans.

i think people are more self-hating asian americans if they turn a blind eye to what someone is saying just because it didn't happen to THEM. my point is that prejudice within asian groups is definitely apparent. some receive or give it more than others. to instead turn it around and say i'm at fault is ridiculous, when you're not the one experiencing it. why would i say it at all if it weren't happening? and why are people so quick to defend the ones who AREN'T speaking? there's a certain amount of attitude that says "i know better even if i don't" in this community, and it's embarrassing to watch.

also, your supposed parallel doesn't make sense. i wasn't all, "yo fellow americans! give me some love! i'm one of YOU!" c'mon, man. it was also my assumption that this board comprised of more than just asian americans. plus, your defense holds less water after that *vomit* comment i saw.

the thing is, i've been in several parts of the world and the internet, and have never spurred this amount of people who are ready to argue that i'm wrong and they're right without even really realizing what i'm talking about. you can see for yourself that the plastic surgery comment in my initial post was a half-mentioned guess to a reason that was greater than that, yet everyone harped on that topic instead. it appears to me that certain people are just looking for a reason to hate other asian americans. perhaps to feel superior, because it's easy to do it here, online, than in person?

in the media, other minority groups have a louder voice about unfair treatment. blacks can poke fun at the asians, yet asians can't poke fun at the blacks. why? because we hold our own people down and laugh at them, ourselves. and rather than the blacks picking each other apart to feel more secure about themselves, they're taking their anger and working towards a cause. i'm not saying support me if i'm wrong... but if i'm wrong, there are more effective ways to educate a person.

go ahead and say what you want, man, for others to read so you can be the big man. i'm tired of defending myself here. but the point is there's truth in what i'm saying here, if only you'd widen your vision to see it rather than focusing on how to further pick me apart.

best of luck to you all...

[DragonKnight]

Hmm, yeah. Okaaaaayyyyyy.... :confused:

[lee duk sun]

buwahahahahaaha, Is this the only Asian themed site you've been to? I've been to sites infested with 'Angry Asian Men' who wouldn't take kindly the idea of you going out with a White guy. Sites with racist people who demonize White men, sites where people are divided by country of origin and troll other ethnic subsections, and sites where people are fight over Communism and call each "traitor" and "communist dog/pig" etc and plenty of the things you speak of amplified ten times over.

Trust me, YW is one of the more calmer sites and there are MUCH nastier Lion's dens out there.

dude, i don't even know what the hell you're talking about. first of all, if you've read any of my posts, you'd know that i was adopted into a white family and that i'm visiting korea for 4 weeks to explore where i'm from. i consider myself a mixed race, and don't feel the need to justify my choices and past preferences of mixed race or races other than my own. i'm not going to restate it. if you're interested, you can find it, but i'll bet you're not because it's easier to just say what you've said. i don't even know how it came up in this context.

and i also think it's funny that everyone seems big on saying that YW is the best of the bad bunch... why don't you all get together and make this a more positive place rather than just the one that will 'make do'? that was the point of my post.

[BeTheReds]

You're just one misconception after another...

Glad to see you didn't leave yet though!

[SunWuKong]

i think people are more self-hating asian americans if they turn a blind eye to what someone is saying just because it didn't happen to THEM. my point is that prejudice within asian groups is definitely apparent. some receive or give it more than others. to instead turn it around and say i'm at fault is ridiculous, when you're not the one experiencing it. why would i say it at all if it weren't happening? and why are people so quick to defend the ones who AREN'T speaking? there's a certain amount of attitude that says "i know better even if i don't" in this community, and it's embarrassing to watch.

let's see, you don't know the culture, and you hardly understand the language. plenty of the people who have responded to you have been to South Korea, and they haven't experienced what you've experienced, or at least think you've experienced. i'll bet you almost anything that if you had actually grown up in Korean culture and are fluent in the language, nobody would doubt what you've experienced. so no, we're not "turning a blind eye" to anything. we just think you've made a whole lot of negative assumptions about people in Korea.

in the media, other minority groups have a louder voice about unfair treatment. blacks can poke fun at the asians, yet asians can't poke fun at the blacks. why? because we hold our own people down and laugh at them, ourselves.

actually, we're not laughing at ourselves. we're just laughing at you.

and rather than the blacks picking each other apart to feel more secure about themselves, they're taking their anger and working towards a cause.

jesus, would you stop speaking for black people like you're one of them? seriously, what the fuck would you know about the African American community?

i'm not saying support me if i'm wrong... but if i'm wrong, there are more effective ways to educate a person.

that's because the stuff you were saying were inane and pretty much insulting. you spend a few weeks in South Korea, hardly speaking the language, and conclude that people are treating you like shit and think that more than half the people you see must have gotten cosmetic surgery despite what research has shown. how the hell would you know? four weeks doesn't mean you know enough about the culture to know what is acceptable social interactions to people there. and looking at people and concluding that they must have had cosmetic surgery makes you look like an ass.

[LaiSteve66]

dude, i don't even know what the hell you're talking about.

I can see that. I just found it hilarious that you say this is such a mean website when I've seen worst at most forums I've been at. Try any gaming forum, or better yet, Stormfront.org.

first of all, if you've read any of my posts, you'd know that i was adopted into a white family and that i'm visiting korea for 4 weeks to explore where i'm from.

Yes I read that.

i consider myself a mixed race,

I don't think you being Korean adopted into a White family makes you a mixed-race person.

and don't feel the need to justify my choices and past preferences of mixed race or races other than my own.


I never said you had to justify it. I am the product of AM/WF.

i'm not going to restate it. if you're interested, you can find it, but i'll bet you're not because it's easier to just say what you've said. i don't even know how it came up in this context.


That wasn't the point, the point is there are much worse sites out there. I was just a warning on what's out there, that's all.

and i also think it's funny that everyone seems big on saying that YW is the best of the bad bunch... why don't you all get together and make this a more positive place rather than just the one that will 'make do'? that was the point of my post.

I wouldn't say the best, but one of the better. I don't get your point when you say Asians are hard on each other because of some BS on a website or your experience in Korea (was everyone in Korea being hard on everyone else? Or just you?). I've seen people be really mean to each other on forums that have nothing to do with race.

[Chad]

i think people are more self-hating asian americans if they turn a blind eye to what someone is saying just because it didn't happen to THEM. my point is that prejudice within asian groups is definitely apparent. some receive or give it more than others. to instead turn it around and say i'm at fault is ridiculous, when you're not the one experiencing it. why would i say it at all if it weren't happening? and why are people so quick to defend the ones who AREN'T speaking? there's a certain amount of attitude that says "i know better even if i don't" in this community, and it's embarrassing to watch.
OK, let's look at what happened to you then... you say people in Korea are rude to you. They're prejudiced against you for whatever reason.. because you're different or a foreigner. I don't know why. But let's suppose all of this is true and you're being treated horribly in Korea for no good reason. Over 4 billion people live on the continent called "Asia" (about 60% of the total world pop.) plus millions who live elsewhere in the world. OH MY GOD, somebody call the papers, some people out of 4 billion are prejudiced!
Now what does that have to do with the people of this forum? Are we all members of the huge Asian conspiracy to make you feel bad on your vacation? You want to know why people in Korea are prejudiced against you? Try asking some native Koreans.
It doesn't have anything to do with me. I'm a native US citizen, my father is Chinese, I've lived here most of my life. Don't make generalizations about Asian people because we're not all the same. Some people are rude to you and you immediately attribute it to race. Why do you do this?

also, your supposed parallel doesn't make sense. i wasn't all, "yo fellow americans! give me some love! i'm one of YOU!" c'mon, man. it was also my assumption that this board comprised of more than just asian americans. plus, your defense holds less water after that *vomit* comment i saw.

my defense? i'm being attacked? i don't feel attacked. my point was that it seemed like you expected us to have some secret knowledge about why people in Korea might be rude to you. my parallel makes perfect sense because you had a bad experience with some people in Korea and then came here to rant to us about it. Is this forum called "Native Koreans Conspiracy to Ruin Ms Sunbeam's Vacation" forum? No... nobody here knows the people who were rude to you.


go ahead and say what you want, man, for others to read so you can be the big man. i'm tired of defending myself here. but the point is there's truth in what i'm saying here, if only you'd widen your vision to see it rather than focusing on how to further pick me apart.

so basically we shouldn't really examine what you say, because then we'll see that you're wrong or making gross generalizations. some truth in what you're saying? OK.. some people who live in Asia have prejudice. Wow. Blows my mind, "man"!

[tapestrybabe]

yeah, its been validated
that some comments have been unwarranted...
i guess i can agree with that...

altho its kinda difficult to get into a
meaningful discussion with someone...
when all they do is end up talking a lot...
and TOTALly disregarding or TOTALly
missing the point what others have said...

my suggestion...
talk less, and post more art work...

[DragonKnight]

I don't think you being Korean adopted into a White family makes you a mixed-race person.
Just to add on, my college buddy is Korean adopted by a white family. Not once did he consider himself as a mixed-race.

[BeTheReds]

Just to add on, my college buddy is Korean adopted by a white family. Not once did he consider himself as a mixed-race.
I think she is referring to the possibility that she might be 1/2 Japanese...

Still 100% Asian, but whatever...

[DragonKnight]

I think she is referring to the possibility that she might be 1/2 Japanese...

Still 100% Asian, but whatever...
Ah, got it.

[mr. x]

sun lee I think some things might have been a little attackish but for the most part whether or not you or I agree with what they said, people were trying to stir up a healthy debate.

As has been said go to any other 90% of the asian themed website forums and the moment you say you are with a white guy you'll get chased out with pitchforks

[deez nuts]

http://images.entoi.com/images/www/ssong/wantyoussong.swf

[applehead]

not everyone can agree with you
about everything all the time.

http://images.entoi.com/images/www/ssong/wantyoussong.swf

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA AHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

OMG. where the hell do you find this stuff?
that is freakin cute

[eos]

awww.....that's adorable. a fun spot in an otherwise angry thread.

[deez nuts]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA AHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

OMG. where the hell do you find this stuff?
that is freakin cute

sam the korean radiology super stud sent it to me.

i think he wants to give me the man sex.

[Nakata]

you haven`t been too many Asian orientated forums then...try Asiafinest the different Asian ethnic groups there are always at each others throats.....and a whole bunch of them would have been on your case and flaming you the moment you mentioned being an Asian female wth a white boyfriend.

These forums are pretty easy going and kindly compared to a lot of them out there and many may have thought some of your comments about Korea a little harsh which is why you got the reaction you did....

[lee duk sun]

i just want to clarify a few things here since i feel so many people got me all wrong... i apologize for repeating certain things, but i wanted to have it all in one place. sorry for the length, but i've learned it's best to be inclusive on here.

when i discovered YW i was hopeful because i have never felt like i was part of any group. it's not that i have to be part of anything, but i just kinda thought it'd be cool to share complaints, ideas, and whatever else it had to offer.

anyway, as someone who had the balls to get the picture and speak up said, i AM hurt and angry. i came to south korea with not the highest of hopes because i knew there would be some mixed feelings, but with the utmost best intentions. this was/is an exciting and emotional trip for me, because the last time i was in south korea i was being abandoned and then organized to ship out to america. although i ended up in a nice (white irish/italian/scottish) family who i wouldn't trade for the world, there are obviously some things that i wanted to learn–about the country, and about my personal story.

it's my OPINION that it's psychologically easier for asian-americans who are raised in asian families, because i am guessing they would feel more part of their heritage. (i know not all asian americans bring up families with asian traditions, btw.) it's just that i suspect that they feel closer to their roots than say, i would, being thrown away and then taken in by a white family who treated me as one of them. that said, i didn't grow up feeling bitter toward asians, just so you know. in fact, i clung to the few i could find, and ironically was turned away from because their parents thought i wasn't "american enough" in exact words. they wanted their kids to have white friends.

and adopted as an infant, i wasn't growing up thinking "geez, i've gotta learn about my asian heritage" because that would only separate me from my REAL family–the one that opened their arms and took me in. (and also grew to 7 kids!) so NO, i didn't learn korean, eat with chopsticks, celebrate korean holidays... even though my parents made it available to me. it's only within the past 5 years or so that i've realized, "hey, there's this whole part of myself that i don't really know", even though i have a great sense of who i am as a person.

if anyone cared to look, i've been keeping a journal of my trip here for myself, my friends and family. i mentioned it in my introduction. it can be accessed through my URL listed in my profile. ANYWAY, you'd see that i started out having a very high opinion of korea. i was intimidated by the language barrier (since i didn't know i was coming until 2 weeks prior), but was ready to explore. every single day i've left the hotel to have lunch by myself (which is NOT done by koreans), shop, see the sights, and just try to get a good feel for the place. what i haven't mentioned is that SOME PEOPLE have been really sweet to me. they are fewer and further between, but that's just been my experience. and i wasn't going to rant about that, because who would?!

but–okay, you should also know that i don't exactly blend here because i have a strong independent style that goes against korean standards. i have a couple hot pink streaks down the sides of my hair, i have three earrings on my left ear, a naval piercing, and 2 hidden tattoos–out of respect. THIS is what i suspect the resistance is coming from–my americanization. HOWEVER, i've been toning it down over here. i don't compromise who i am, but it's like... when i attend meetings (i'm a designer) i have to look respectable from a business sense. i've been doing this here so NOT to be the flashy american, or whatever.

somebody wrote that perhaps my looking asian but acting western might be what's offending them. well, i can't help that. i grew up in america, therefore i'm americanized. i'm not a loud talker and have no one to really talk to when i'm seen, so that's not it. i'm not a fan of g.w. and don't wear american pride. but regardless, i understand their culture takes me bending to them a bit, but it's still wrong for them to treat me unfairly because of who i am. it's ignorant, as it would be if the countries were reversed.

some real examples, just so you know what i've encountered:

– today, three women in their 20s were walking up the stairs at a subway station. if you've been here, you know they're all about business on public transportation... you have to get out of people's way or get carried off or elbowed in the head. i know this, so i'm very aware after a couple of close calls. anyway, 2 of them started looking at my hair and started laughing. then one of them pushed the other girl RIGHT INTO ME intentionally. i saw the whole thing. and then they laughed and ran up the steps.

– i was at a market in daegu when i was visiting the hospital i was left at, and i was delaying for my train back to seoul so hit the soemun market. i saw some shirts that i liked so went through the pile. the woman at the booth started talking to me really quickly so i told her, "hello, i'm american, i don't speak korean," IN korean. she started talking faster so i repeated. then she looked at the woman in the booth across from her, started laughing, and they started talking and looking at me, laughing together... i asked "how much" and she grabbed the shirt from my hands. i asked again and she started yelling at me in korean. i went to type it into her calculator and she snatched it away. mind you, i was very soft spoken because i'd been here 2 weeks already and was feeling shy about people looking when they heard me speak.

SO i went to another booth down the aisle, determined not to get chased out by that. i found some pants that were cute. i went through my introduction and asked the girl "how much" and she typed in 18,000 won after looking at me funny. we're in a market in korea and haggling is expected, and although i want to get along, fair is fair. they generally mark up the prices for foreigners. i typed 15,000 in her calculator. she started talking fast in korean while giving me HORRIBLE looks and then finally agreed. all the while, another korean lady is standing beside me taking it all in. she decides to join in and look me up and down while talking about me in my face. i hand the woman behind the booth 2 ten thousands and she sees she has no change, so gives me back the money while looking to find the change from someone else. she's already given me the pants in a bag that i'm holding–which i'd gladly give back temporarily if she motioned for it. the woman beside me looks at me distrustfully and says something to that woman, which I THINK was along the lines of "careful, she'll run off with them." because that woman then decides NOT to go get change. the woman beside me takes a 5,000 from her purse and sticks her nose up at me and says something. so i head out... with the pants, but after all that crap!

i'm not gonna bore you with the rest, but just wanted to give you a taste for what i've been through so you know i'm not interpreting them wrong. the korean man who was here working with my boyfriend said that he was amazed at how well i've been doing over here, given the circumstances. yes, that's a pat on the back, because i feel like people think i'm having a shitty time and letting people get the best of me, while looking for pity wherever i can get it.

now, on the plastic surgery thing... *sigh* first off, i admit that looking at people i assumed a large precentage had eye surgery. but my reason wasn't solely because of what i saw. i read articles in TIME ASIA and other ones published by harvard univ. that talked about south korea's eyelid obsession, along with the numbers of around something like only 20% having natural double-lids. in all areas i've been every single day, be it in the city or slightly out, about 85% of the people i see have double-lids. sometimes a little more, sometimes a little less. pair that with the fact that not all of them look GOOD... some are puffy and red or just seem 'off'. that's how i came to my guess of 65% of the people I'VE SEEN.

i think it's very presumptuous of people to say that means i'm insecure, because i'm not even saying that these are the beauties. yes, as a child and growing up i'd wished i had eyes like my white siblings, but that was more of a psychological family thing. especially after being here, i'm proud of my single lidded eyes–even if people think they're ugly or inferior. i don't care. if they're going out of style or being somehow out-bred, i think it's kind of cool to be different.

and also–i'm not picking on these people, either. just because i think they might have had plastic surgery doesn't mean i think they're shallow or vain or whatever. i wrote another post about how i thought it was depressing that they felt the need to do it–because despite the percentage debate, it's being done. i get it now, though. people feel inferior or whatever and insecure, so they do it. enough of that.

i don't expect everyone to agree with me. if they've experienced otherwise, interesting, but fine. i like a healthy debate, but some of what was said was just... not what i expected, okay? maybe i'm not cut out for the asian american boards... i don't know...

now, onto the white boyfriend thing, because this is a bigger issue than i think people are fessing up to. everyone keeps saying how much harder i'd have it if i were on another board saying that i had a white boyfriend. well, my mention of his skin color only stemmed from the fact that i wanted to point out that he was being treated favorably here, as opposed to me. i kind of expected it to be the opposite. i'm glad he's not getting shit, but it was a comparison point.

and why should it bother anyone that i'm going out with a white guy? here or anywhere? in sincerity, i want to know. educate me if i'm wrong, but i can only think of a few reasons and i can't help that they're insulting. 1–insecurity. 2–you worry about the pure asian races decreasing. 3–you're bitter that you don't get many dates. 4–you're prejudiced against multiracial people. the fact is, you don't know me, it shouldn't matter who i date and i shouldn't have to justify it to anyone. although, if you ask me nicely, i'm more than happy to explain why i've dated the people i have in the past. so basically, i'm saying the defense that i'm lucky to be treated as nice as i have (haha) on here is like a kid getting caught smoking cigarettes and him saying to his mom, "you're lucky i'm not doing heroin!" why should i be lucky that the worst isn't happening?

lastly, i want to apologize to the FEW people i was harder on than i should've been. i was pissed off that i was getting shit on this board on top of what was going on in 'real life'. however, although the people who mentioned i should talk less and post more art had nice intentions, i feel that i shouldn't have to be that way in order to get along. i am who i am–a whole person, and i'll apologize when i'm wrong, but when i'm not and don't deserve the level of shit that i get, i WILL get riled up because i'm human and i have self-respect.

so, go ahead if you want... and tear me apart or complain at the lengthiness of this post or go on about prior things i wrote and take them out of context or try to catch me in some inconsistency due to my frustration level... but i hope that you don't. and i hope you see what i'm doing rather than snap judge me the way you all hate to be judged. and if you want to hate me, go ahead. outwardly strong people always create controversy.

best of luck,
sun lee sunbeam

[deez nuts]

welcome back

[VV o n g B a]

hey, it's just a message board. arguments come easily and are usually just as easily forgotten. no need to take things to heart. hope u enjoy ur second round here more than the first.

[kasia]

merging with the other thread. please don't start unnecessary threads.

[kimpossible]

Nothing can be worse than my foreigner with extreme constipation ending in visit to Taiwanese emergency room experience.

[rice cracker]

GODDAMNIT. I had an awesome freaking post and I couldn't post it! Grrrrr....

Anyway, the point of it was you can't just post a highly opinionated, anecdotal essay on the failings of Korean society and expect everyone who reads it to be your BFF. And perhaps instead of lashing out to earnest responses with your "nobody understands, my situation is so unique" so-called outward strongness, you could actually, like, take the time to absorb some of what people are telling you. I mean, seriously, how are people supposed to respond if you go into defensive life story mode everytime they say something?

[kimpossible]

More awesome than my constipation? There were x-rays and enemas involved.

[rice cracker]

One time I got bit by a mosquito in Korea. My arm swelled up to 3X the normal size. I think it's because the mosquito knew I was a foreigner and it was all angry because it had had plastic surgery and I didn't speak the language so it bit me with some super rude toxin.

[BeTheReds]

One time I got bit by a mosquito in Korea. My arm swelled up to 3X the normal size. I think it's because the mosquito knew I was a foreigner and it was all angry because it had had plastic surgery and I didn't speak the language so it bit me with some super rude toxin.


Oh come on, be nice! What she's going through can be really saddening. I for one feel for her. Can't say I agree with her on all points, but what she is percieving definately hurts, and I can understand why she has those perceptions. I do agree that we've all heard it a million times by now. And also that a threat to leave means "I'm staying for good!"

[rice cracker]

Oh come on, be nice! What she's going through can be really saddening. I for one feel for her. Can't say I agree with her on all points, but what she is percieving definately hurts, and I can understand why she has those perceptions. I do agree that we've all heard it a million times by now. And also that a threat to leave means "I'm staying for good!"

Oh, you telling me to be nice? Let's go upthread and see who has more snarky comments. Anyway, it was a true story.

[BeTheReds]

and why should it bother anyone that i'm going out with a white guy? here or anywhere?

I don't know that anyone is bothered by your dating practices. But there is a sizable sentiment of alarm in the sheer frequency of WM/AF relationships in comparison to AM/WF relationships. This also holds true in the media, where it's even rare to find an AM/AF relationship. While in most cases, people aren't against individual IRs, they are against the phenominon in general. My personal approach on it is that I don't really like it, but it's really not my business.

in sincerity, i want to know. educate me if i'm wrong,

Do you mean it? Cause I will, if you're willing to listen. Name five Asian-American actors who played roles where they were dating Asian women, just off the top of your head... In 5 minutes of thinking I only came up with John Lone's portayal of the Last Emperor of China, and Rick Yune in Snow Falling on Cedars (even though he did get sloppy seconds to whitey). Now try it with non-Asian actors... Let's see, in 10 seconds I have Ralph Maccio in Karate Kid 2, Wesley Snipes in that movie with MingNa Wen, Mike Meyers in Wayne's World, Ethan Hawke in Snow Falling on cedars, Hell, I could keep going on and on.. It's a lot easier isn't it? Are you one to say that the media has very little to do with people's perceptions of the world? Isn't it at least possible that the media is teaching young Asian-American women that they belong with a White boy?

but i can only think of a few reasons and i can't help that they're insulting. I know you're going to hate it, but I have to pick apart your reasons.

1–insecurity.
This might be true for those who exxagerate the problem to be more than what it is, but in general, I'd have to say that insecurity is not a factor. I've actually found it true that the White boyfriends are a little insecure when they realize that there is some aspect of their GF's life that they just can't ever be a part of nor understand. (again, not in all cases..)

2–you worry about the pure asian races decreasing.

Let's see, Japan is 99.9% Japanese. Korea is also more than 98% Korean, and 1 in 4 people in the world are Chinese.... I don't know... I'm really not too worried about it... but that's just me.

3–you're bitter that you don't get many dates.
While that might be true in some people's cases, it really doesn't help when the media is telling everyone that you're asexual. I also find that people who do get a lot of dates are actually the most vocal about the dating disparity.

4–you're prejudiced against multiracial people.
Nope... That's two seperate issues. When you see a WM/AF couple on a date, their interestingly beautiful kids are the last thing on anyone's mind. [/quote]


the fact is, you don't know me, it shouldn't matter who i date and i shouldn't have to justify it to anyone.

Then DON'T. You're the only one who thinks you need to. Why even bother making it an issue at all?

although, if you ask me nicely, i'm more than happy to explain why i've dated the people i have in the past.
Nobody Cares! That's what I've been saying since the beginning.

Oh, you telling me to be nice? Let's go upthread and see who has more snarky comments. Anyway, it was a true story.
Ok, you got me there.

It is fun to mock people tho isn't it?

[rice cracker]

Ok, you got me there.

It is fun to mock people tho isn't it?

Baby, it's why we get along so well <3

[snailpoo]

i think it's very presumptuous of people to say that means i'm insecure, because i'm not even saying that these are the beauties. yes, as a child and growing up i'd wished i had eyes like my white siblings, but that was more of a psychological family thing. especially after being here, i'm proud of my single lidded eyes–even if people think they're ugly or inferior. i don't care. if they're going out of style or being somehow out-bred, i think it's kind of cool to be different.

And how much more presumptuous for you to say:

<strong>percentages and the angle of trying to look like one particular race aside, the point is that people in asia are unhappy with looking asian.</strong>

You tried to clarify, but only dug yourself deeper with more judgments:

anyway, i'm not saying they do it to look white or even western in this post. in fact, the more i read about it, the more it seems it's just bad self-esteem or too much focus on appearance by society or the individual, themselves

You dislike the fact people are judging you, yet you turn around and judge few billion people. Has it occured to you that maybe people judge you because you judge others?



And incase you missed the irony, look at your gripe with us:

i think it's very presumptuous of people to say that means i'm insecure,

And look at what you said about Asians:
in fact, the more i read about it, the more it seems it's just bad self-esteem

:wink:

[kimpossible]

Any more drama and TNT will be calling for broadcast rights.

http://i.tnt.tv/v5cache/TNT/Images/hdr_weknowdrama.gif

[bluemonq]

so i've been away for the past month (not that anybody noticed :biggrin:), so coming back to this is a bit interesting... this type of exposition seems to be getting more common (at least, since i joined). maybe there should be a subsection of "Feedback and Support" for this?

sunleebeam: just been catching up on everything...you seem to be ok; if you find a lot of the replies (to any threads, really) to be antagonistic, it's usually 'cause absolutes were involved. it's not that uncommon here for people slam a poster when s/he brings up an established fact (even over technical stuff). paraphrasing existential freedom: you're free to post whatever you want, but you have to accept the fact that there will be all manners of replies (sartre is sooo spinning in his grave right now). then again, it's what makes yw interesting... anyways, most people develop a thick skin after a while.

[snailpoo]

sun lee sunbeam

I need to add that I think I came across too harsh in my previous post, and for that I apologize, but while I do sympathize with the awkwardness of sticking out like a sore thumb in an unfamiliar culture, as many posters have pointed out previously, you came across very opinionated in a manner rather offensive to the racial sensibilities to some people on this board --the fact that you yourself protest to being judged in the exact same manner in which you judged others should help you understand why others took offense to some of the things you said.

[Irezumi Kiss]

http://images.entoi.com/images/www/ssong/wantyoussong.swf
Can't....stop...laughing...damn...you....

[achtungbaby]

Moving to Rant

[uhhden]

sorry, i wasn't paying attention.

[DragonKnight]

Any more drama and TNT will be calling for broadcast rights.

http://i.tnt.tv/v5cache/TNT/Images/hdr_weknowdrama.gif
One of the reasons why I go to YW. Great fucking writing material for drama. This could be a future episode for Veronica Mars goes to Korea and unravels the mystery of Asian women and plastic surgery.

[mr. x]

and why should it bother anyone that i'm going out with a white guy? here or anywhere?

sun lee sunbeam
Cuz you had a whole rant about how yw was the most scathing asian forum you've ever been to, when as I said most other boards will run you out of town the moment you mention your white bf

I hardly think we ran you out, you simply got dramatic when some people took issue with this or that of what you said.

[lee duk sun]

see, this is a far more productive reply...

I don't know that anyone is bothered by your dating practices. But there is a sizable sentiment of alarm in the sheer frequency of WM/AF relationships in comparison to AM/WF relationships. This also holds true in the media, where it's even rare to find an AM/AF relationship. While in most cases, people aren't against individual IRs, they are against the phenominon in general. My personal approach on it is that I don't really like it, but it's really not my business.

well, people say they're not bothered, but then i get comments like "ask Mr. White Boyfriend" as well as a large amount of people telling me that most people would start attacking me just by the mention of it. so to me, that means that people are bothered.

Do you mean it? Cause I will, if you're willing to listen. Name five Asian-American actors who played roles where they were dating Asian women, just off the top of your head... In 5 minutes of thinking I only came up with John Lone's portayal of the Last Emperor of China, and Rick Yune in Snow Falling on Cedars (even though he did get sloppy seconds to whitey). Now try it with non-Asian actors... Let's see, in 10 seconds I have Ralph Maccio in Karate Kid 2, Wesley Snipes in that movie with MingNa Wen, Mike Meyers in Wayne's World, Ethan Hawke in Snow Falling on cedars, Hell, I could keep going on and on.. It's a lot easier isn't it? Are you one to say that the media has very little to do with people's perceptions of the world? Isn't it at least possible that the media is teaching young Asian-American women that they belong with a White boy?

ok, i totally get that the media is powerful, unfortunately enough, in adding to all sorts of negative psychological factors. but i also feel it took a long time for asian women to even get decent roles in movies... so maybe it's just a matter of time before more hot asian guys are featured on screen? in regards to the media teaching us we belong with a white boy, no, i don't believe that. just because they pick out and highlight SOME, doesn't mean that's a strong message. maybe some people feel that way–i wouldn't argue with that. but i never felt growing up that the media was pushing me in that direction. on the contrary, i always felt i was being pushed to be with an asian guy, however, there were never any available. in high school, none of the guys wanted to date me (and i wasn't all that bad looking–i swear!) because they didn't want to be the white guy with the one asian girl. *shrugs*

This might be true for those who exxagerate the problem to be more than what it is, but in general, I'd have to say that insecurity is not a factor. I've actually found it true that the White boyfriends are a little insecure when they realize that there is some aspect of their GF's life that they just can't ever be a part of nor understand. (again, not in all cases..)

well i don't know if i'd consider the latter to be insecurity, more than just a lack of intimacy. but anyway, with insecurity i meant that there are people who say things like "they're taking all our women", which to me is ridiculous. nobody's owned by anyone.

Let's see, Japan is 99.9% Japanese. Korea is also more than 98% Korean, and 1 in 4 people in the world are Chinese.... I don't know... I'm really not too worried about it... but that's just me.

yeah, that was kind of a joke because i personally think the whole thing is silly–the AAF/WAM thing.

While that might be true in some people's cases, it really doesn't help when the media is telling everyone that you're asexual. I also find that people who do get a lot of dates are actually the most vocal about the dating disparity.

okay, i'll accept that.

Nope... That's two seperate issues. When you see a WM/AF couple on a date, their interestingly beautiful kids are the last thing on anyone's mind. [/QUOTE]

good!

Then DON'T. You're the only one who thinks you need to. Why even bother making it an issue at all?
Nobody Cares! That's what I've been saying since the beginning.

hey man, i'm not making it an issue. it's more in line with what i said at the top here about other people's comments to me.

and yeah... i was pissed off and feeling the boot in my ass and was going to say f-it, but then my natural instincts came back that i don't like to be misrepresented or defeated that easily ;-) thanks for your more balanced reply.

sorry, i wasn't paying attention.

haha. then why do you bother to look?! nobody's forcing anyone to click in and comment, ya know... :confused:

snailpoo, you're taking my words out of context. i said, percentages aside, there are people in asia who are getting plastic surgery. research it. it doesn't matter how many, but it's happening. and THOSE are the people who are insecure with their looks. don't make me angry again!!! haha

anyway, in reference to THE PEOPLE IN ASIA WHO ARE GETTING PLASTIC SURGERY, yes, i'm judging that unless it's reconstructive or corrective, it's because they're insecure with their looks. probably because of the media, etc.

i didn't say all asians are unhappy with their appearance. that's obsurd! i know lots of asian american girls who think they're the shit ;-) for real! in all of those quotes that you exerted from my prior posts, you're completely missing the point. and i'm not going to bother reiterating again because nobody wants to hear it.

snailpoo, in terms of the judgment again, you're misunderstanding. i'm stating the reasons why the people who ARE getting plastic surgery are doing it. i'm not trying to offend you or anyone else.

btw, i'm done with this topic. i'm not going to respond to it by anyone on this thread because it's all overstated and i'm bored with it.

And perhaps instead of lashing out to earnest responses with your "nobody understands, my situation is so unique" so-called outward strongness, you could actually, like, take the time to absorb some of what people are telling you. I mean, seriously, how are people supposed to respond if you go into defensive life story mode everytime they say something?

i don't believe i lashed out at earnest responses... (well, maybe one because that's when i got bombed by everyone)... just the harsh ones. i HAVE absorbed and replied to the ones that were telling me anything on topic, of interest, educational, that wasn't just "i'm right, you're wrong" without really backing it up.

TO THE PEOPLE WHO SAID NICE THINGS, thanks. i appreciate it. i also want to mention that some people sent me private emails to say positive things about my story, how it happens to a lot of people they know, my music, etc. you people made my day. :redface:

merging with the other thread. please don't start unnecessary threads.

i think i was banned from the rant room for awhile because it wouldn't let me post it in there. that's why i put it in the other one. oops. :rolleyes:

*bows*

btw, thanks for the liberty on re-titling ;-)

[BeTheReds]

in regards to the media teaching us we belong with a white boy, no, i don't believe that.

You must be in denial then. I admit that people are pretty strong willed for the most part, and are able to not be controlled by the media, but can you think of any fad growing up that became cool because people saw it on TV? You have to at least acknowledge that to an extent, the media is not helping the Asian-Male on the dating scene. To what extent, I don't know. But every little bit matters...

[LaiSteve66]

and why should it bother anyone that i'm going out with a white guy?

Don't worry. I was just as shocked as you were to learn that some people were bothered by it.

http://forums.yellowworld.org/showthread.php?t=26106

[lee duk sun]

You must be in denial then. I admit that people are pretty strong willed for the most part, and are able to not be controlled by the media, but can you think of any fad growing up that became cool because people saw it on TV? You have to at least acknowledge that to an extent, the media is not helping the Asian-Male on the dating scene. To what extent, I don't know. But every little bit matters...

i'm not in denial, i just don't personally FEEL it. i agree that the american media isn't HELPING the asian male on the dating scene, but is it really hurting him? if you feel strongly about it, what about writing letters, etc, or taking other action to let the media know the people are interested in seeing stuff like that? i'm sure that something can be done to progress it... but i can't honestly say i know the answer.

i am curious though, why you're personally against white men in america being seen with asian or asian american girls. it interests me, especially because you're a mixed race. and from what i saw from your photo, not a bad looking one at that...

today's my last day in korea so i probably won't be on this thing for a bit... but i do want to hear what your perspective is on that front.

xOx

Don't worry. I was just as shocked as you were to learn that some people were bothered by it.

http://forums.yellowworld.org/showthread.php?t=26106

um... you're not the same steve who is here in korea with my boyfriend and had dinner with us twice, are you? holy f--- that would be a weird coincidence!!!

ps.. thanks for the link. reading it quickly before heading out.

[Aurutus]

Hi Sunbeam...I really enjoy your writings and sometimes it's better to ignore some comments that are childish and not constructive. You have many readers here like Stevelai66,robotic and me.

People may miss the important points and talk about other things. People openly talk about it whether the comments are good or bad...their views help you to see things better/clearer.

Some asians are overly critical and depends on their education and brought up. I hope you don't give up just like this...there are definitely many sites out there that are worse than YW. Sometimes it's good to let the subject goes wild and have a lot of funny responses. It reflects on the personality and their maturity.

Don't give up! You could share your wisdom here.

[LaiSteve66]

um... you're not the same steve who is here in korea with my boyfriend and had dinner with us twice, are you? holy f--- that would be a weird coincidence!!!

ps.. thanks for the link. reading it quickly before heading out.

nah, I've never even been to Asia.

[BeTheReds]

i'm not in denial, i just don't personally FEEL it.
Whether you feel it or not is besides the point. You should at least acknowledge that the media fosters an environment that makes it only natural for Asian women to date out of their race, while painting the Asian male as a wife beating villain or non-masculine nerd (see Joy Luck Club, The transporter, Kickboxer, etc)

i agree that the american media isn't HELPING the asian male on the dating scene, but is it really hurting him?
Absolutley. Aside from a few roles here and there, the majority of Asian male roles are not good ones. Long Duk Dong ring a bell? How about the asian cop in the police academies?

if you feel strongly about it, what about writing letters, etc, or taking other action to let the media know the people are interested in seeing stuff like that? i'm sure that something can be done to progress it... but i can't honestly say i know the answer.


The thing is, I don't feel that strongly about it. I do acknowledge that there is a slight problem though.

i am curious though, why you're personally against white men in america being seen with asian or asian american girls.

It just bothers me. But it's really not my business. That's why I don't do anything about it.

it interests me, especially because you're a mixed race.

First off, and proving my point, you assume that my mother is Korean and my Dad is white.... which is why I should not be against such pairings, right? Well you're wrong. My DAD is Korean and my MOM is White. Your assumption simply proves that the general trend of WM/AF permeates your thinking.

Furthermore, I wouldn't expect someone to automatically be for WM/AF simply because her parents are. Nor do I expect mixed race people to have some kind of bond with each other...

and from what i saw from your photo, not a bad looking one at that...

Uh... thanks... *blush*


today's my last day in korea so i probably won't be on this thing for a bit... but i do want to hear what your perspective is on that front.

xOx


Well u can PM me or AIM or MSN me if u wanna know about me personally, cuz I don't want to spread my life story all over these forums.

[LaiSteve66]

It just bothers me.

From one product of AM/WF to another, I can't understand why it would bother you.

[yoMAMA]

One time I got bit by a mosquito in Korea. My arm swelled up to 3X the normal size. I think it's because the mosquito knew I was a foreigner and it was all angry because it had had plastic surgery and I didn't speak the language so it bit me with some super rude toxin.

damm racist korean mosquitos.

:mad:

[BeTheReds]

From one product of AM/WF to another, I can't understand why it would bother you.
Further proof that no two hapas automatically see eye to eye on anything. If it doesn't bother you, that's great. I can't explain why it bothers me. And again, it's really not my business.

[LaiSteve66]

Further proof that no two hapas automatically see eye to eye on anything.

People actually think we see eye to eye on everything?

I can't explain why it bothers me. And again, it's really not my business.

Okay.

[lee duk sun]

sun lee sunbeam, I need to add that I think I came across too harsh in my previous post, and for that I apologize, but while I do sympathize with the awkwardness of sticking out like a sore thumb in an unfamiliar culture,

forgot to say thanks for the apology part.

Hi Sunbeam...I really enjoy your writings and sometimes it's better to ignore some comments that are childish and not constructive. You have many readers here like Stevelai66,robotic and me.

People may miss the important points and talk about other things. People openly talk about it whether the comments are good or bad...their views help you to see things better/clearer.

Some asians are overly critical and depends on their education and brought up. I hope you don't give up just like this...there are definitely many sites out there that are worse than YW. Sometimes it's good to let the subject goes wild and have a lot of funny responses. It reflects on the personality and their maturity.

Don't give up! You could share your wisdom here.

hey, thanks a lot. :wink: that's really sweet, and big of you to say on this thread, to boot. i was going to give up, but as i mentioned to 'bethereds' i was just really upset, and my stronger instincts kicked in ;-)

'though i probably won't be able to be as involved as much once my vaca here is over, it'll be good to get to know some of you better.

xOx

Long Duk Dong ring a bell?

hahahaha–THAT is a classic... and yeah, it was quite embarrassing at the time for me because all the kids in my school thought of him as the person i would find attractive just because he was asian!!!


First off, and proving my point, you assume that my mother is Korean and my Dad is white.... which is why I should not be against such pairings, right? Well you're wrong. My DAD is Korean and my MOM is White. Your assumption simply proves that the general trend of WM/AF permeates your thinking.

Furthermore, I wouldn't expect someone to automatically be for WM/AF simply because her parents are. Nor do I expect mixed race people to have some kind of bond with each other...

Well u can PM me or AIM or MSN me if u wanna know about me personally, cuz I don't want to spread my life story all over these forums.

huh? no, i didn't assume anything, actually. just the fact that you are a mixed race made me think you'd be less sensitive to other mixed couples. i don't think you all have a bond or are telepathically connected... i just wanted your personal take on it. maybe when i get back to the states i'll look you up if you're more apt to explain your thinking on it then. if not, that's cool... i'm just curious how people think.

nah, I've never even been to Asia.

okay... phew... because there's a vietnamese man from houston about your age who's an engineer here. i thought it'd be a stretch, but... you never know, right?

now... time to get ready to see the seoul tower :redface:

one last thing–just to make up for all the heavy talk:

http://www.jessicasdream.com/korea/korean_boobies.jpg

:rolleyes:

[Paradox]

Honestly Sunleebeam, I think you need to hang around some asian people more. Maybe hang out with asian-americans first to relieve your inner angst child before moving on to the big leagues of the general Korean populace.

I'm not sure how this got massively derailed into another Asian dating thread but personally I couldn't care less who you date. If you rant at your boyfriend as much as us then maybe it's a good thing.
Personally, I feel that you have issues and I mean this in the most polite way possible. I've met asian americans short and tall, skinny and fat, adopted and hapa yet i've never met someone with quite a propensity to paint all asians with a broad negative brushstroke as you are doing here.

[lee duk sun]

Honestly Sunleebeam, I think you need to hang around some asian people more. Maybe hang out with asian-americans first to relieve your inner angst child before moving on to the big leagues of the general Korean populace.

I'm not sure how this got massively derailed into another Asian dating thread but personally I couldn't care less who you date. If you rant at your boyfriend as much as us then maybe it's a good thing.
Personally, I feel that you have issues and I mean this in the most polite way possible. I've met asian americans short and tall, skinny and fat, adopted and hapa yet i've never met someone with quite a propensity to paint all asians with a broad negative brushstroke as you are doing here.

wow. i guess no matter what i say you're not gonna get the fact that i don't paint all asians with a negative brush, that i'm not an asian hater, that i don't have issues with being asian, blah blah blah it doesn't matter what i say. fyi, i DO have asian american friends. they're just not here in seoul.

i'm in a shitty mood because i'm unable to go to the seoul tower tonight and hate more asians. you're the lucky one.

i've got issues, baby, but it's not with being asian or with asians in general. just the ones who treated me badly and those narrow minded ones who, ya know, just want call me things so they can feel justified in their continued disliking of me.

p.s. the whole boyfriend thing is really rude and i'd take offense if there were any truth to it... but instead, i'll just point out it's ridiculousness. and say blah blah blah you suck blah blah :rolleyes:

why don't you go look at the asian boobies i posted and lighten the fuck up already. i'm so done with defending myself. and i'm hungry, goddammit.

[rice cracker]

^ Yeah, that's not lashing out.

[thaite]

you posted asian boobies? Where?

[DragonKnight]

you posted asian boobies? Where?
These I think.



one last thing–just to make up for all the heavy talk:

http://www.jessicasdream.com/korea/korean_boobies.jpg

:rolleyes:

[kimpossible]

Thaite's like a bra. Anywhere there's b00bies he wants to lend his support.

[SunWuKong]

i'm not in denial, i just don't personally FEEL it. i agree that the american media isn't HELPING the asian male on the dating scene, but is it really hurting him? if you feel strongly about it, what about writing letters, etc, or taking other action to let the media know the people are interested in seeing stuff like that? i'm sure that something can be done to progress it... but i can't honestly say i know the answer.

i'm not going to get into the interracial dating issue, but the problems concerning Asian Americans in the media is much more than just interracial dating. and for one thing, media portrayals of both Asian American men and women are problematic. some guy sitting at home writing letters aren't going to change anything. the media is a multi-million dollar business. but there are groups out there trying to make our concerns known, like Media Action Network for Asian Americans (http://www.manaa.org/) and Asian Media Watchdog (http://www.asianmediawatchdog.com/home.html), and we can support them.

[kimpossible]

These I think.

I love how DragonKnight is so casual about it. Like, "Oh, I think there were some titties somewhere. Why, I just happen to have the exact text and link here. How did it get here?!?!"

[SunWuKong]

just the fact that you are a mixed race made me think you'd be less sensitive to other mixed couples.

i'm not mixed and i don't want to seem like i'm speaking for them, but as far as i know, this is a common misconception.

for one, not every father and mother of a mixed raced person are happily married.

[DragonKnight]

I love how DragonKnight is so casual about it. Like, "Oh, I think there were some titties somewhere. Why, I just happen to have the exact text and link here. How did it get here?!?!"
:biggrin:

[BeTheReds]

huh? no, i didn't assume anything, actually. just the fact that you are a mixed race made me think you'd be less sensitive to other mixed couples. i don't think you all have a bond or are telepathically connected... i just wanted your personal take on it. maybe when i get back to the states i'll look you up if you're more apt to explain your thinking on it then. if not, that's cool... i'm just curious how people think.



Fine with me. Not sure why you really want to know though.

[Chad]

I am not "sensitive" to interracial couples, I simply acknowledge that there is more involved than just individual choices and that the patterns of interracial marriage with gender disparities are not unrelated to racial caste systems and racism in society. What I do get "sensitive" to is when I hear someone (usually it is either a white male or an Asian female) talking shit about Asian men.
I don't put people on the spot about their relationships because I think it's kind of rude and I wouldn't want anybody to do that to me. But when I meet people over and over again who seem to be in this very stereotypical type of relationship and I hear them say the same cliched things about it over and over again my gag reflex kicks in and there's really nothing I can do about that.
My parents are happily married after 30+ years and they're not a typical IR couple. But this doesn't give me any illusions about it.

[thaite]

I'm totally sensitive. In fact I hate 'em. Everytime I see a mixed couple I have to go up to them and scream "Are you people CRAZY!?? DON'T MIX THE RACES!!! YOUR KIDS WILL BE PSYCHO!!!" as I pound my chest.

[returntosender]

whoa, and i thought i was the only one.

[tapestrybabe]

just the fact that you are a mixed race made me think you'd be less sensitive to other mixed couples.

eh, just the fact that you are an
asian adoptee raised by white parents...
would seem like others would think that you would be
less sensitive about other mixed race couples...
but eh, ppl would be deemed as being presumptuous
if they thought that way...
cuz personally, i'm VERy sensitive
to the issue of mixed couples...
seeing such a thing doesnt align with me...
and i know for a fact i would never do it...
just cuz again... it wouldnt align with me...
shoot, i've come to the point...
going out with someone of a different
asian ethnic background wouldnt align with me...

eh, there i go to prove my point again...
the issue that not everyone
thinks or feels the same...
and that i guess...
ppl shouldnt assume...

[BeTheReds]

eh, just the fact that you are an
asian adoptee raised by white parents...
would seem like others would think that you would be
less sensitive about other mixed race couples...
but eh, ppl would be deemed as being presumptuous
if they thought that way...
cuz personally, i'm VERy sensitive
to the issue of mixed couples...
seeing such a thing doesnt align with me...
and i know for a fact i would never do it...
just cuz again... it wouldnt align with me...
shoot, i've come to the point...
going out with someone of a different
asian ethnic background wouldnt align with me...

eh, there i go to prove my point again...
the issue that not everyone
thinks or feels the same...
and that i guess...
ppl shouldnt assume...

Yea baby, keep it real!

[tapestrybabe]

Yea baby, keep it real!

hey namdongsaeng...
thats right...
being myself is keeing it real...
thats true for anybody...
who ends up doing
what feels right for them...

[lee duk sun]

Fine with me. Not sure why you really want to know though.

because i think if people take the effort to try to understand people's thinking/psychology behind their feelings, it helps. maybe i'm just like that, i guess.

i'm not mixed and i don't want to seem like i'm speaking for them, but as far as i know, this is a common misconception.

for one, not every father and mother of a mixed raced person are happily married.

yeah, and that's why i'm trying to understand it better. but my misconception doesn't stem from what you wrote above, rather than the fact that if you're a product of a mixed couple, you're here and you're special, and maybe you'd be more sensitive to seeing other mixed couples. but, obviously i'm wrong.

eh, just the fact that you are an
asian adoptee raised by white parents...
would seem like others would think that you would be
less sensitive about other mixed race couples...
but eh, ppl would be deemed as being presumptuous
if they thought that way...
cuz personally, i'm VERy sensitive
to the issue of mixed couples...
seeing such a thing doesnt align with me...
and i know for a fact i would never do it...
just cuz again... it wouldnt align with me...
shoot, i've come to the point...
going out with someone of a different
asian ethnic background wouldnt align with me...

eh, there i go to prove my point again...
the issue that not everyone
thinks or feels the same...
and that i guess...
ppl shouldnt assume...

i'm not assuming, it's just what i would've guessed, but i'm realizing it's wrong, therefore i want to know more about it. i'm fascinated with how people think, i guess.

is there a specific reason why being with someone of another race doesn't align with you? does it have more to do with social issues or personal gut feelings? i'm just asking, again, because i'm interested.


being myself is keeing it real...
thats true for anybody...
who ends up doing
what feels right for them...

now THIS i totally agree with... do what feels right for yourself, as an individual.

= What I do get "sensitive" to is when I hear someone (usually it is either a white male or an Asian female) talking shit about Asian men.
I don't put people on the spot about their relationships because I think it's kind of rude and I wouldn't want anybody to do that to me. But when I meet people over and over again who seem to be in this very stereotypical type of relationship and I hear them say the same cliched things about it over and over again my gag reflex kicks in and there's really nothing I can do about that.
=.

i hope you didn't think i was talking shit about asian men, because i wasn't. in fact, it's the korean women who treated me the worst. however, i'm also not saying all korean women are rude. just the ones who were rude to me.

personally, my gag reflex kicks in the most when a couple of ANY race fall into stereotypical relationships for wrong reasons of any kind. to me, wrong reasons are any reasons that aren't led by the way you feel about an individual and the love that you have for that specific person.

the problems concerning Asian Americans in the media is much more than just interracial dating. and for one thing, media portrayals of both Asian American men and women are problematic. some guy sitting at home writing letters aren't going to change anything. the media is a multi-million dollar business. but there are groups out there trying to make our concerns known, like Media Action Network for Asian Americans (http://www.manaa.org/) and Asian Media Watchdog (http://www.asianmediawatchdog.com/home.html), and we can support them.

yes, i understand this. my only suggestion is to act on the anger in some way that you find productive rather than just feel upset about it if it bothers you to an extent. it's good that there are those groups... but maybe some people who have the talent in here should start taking the risks to write more screenplays, novels, make ANYTHING that contributes to the positive awareness of the issues that upsets them.

thanks for the links. i'll check 'em out when i'm not jetlagged...

P.S. a question to all: what do you consider mixing the races? for those who are against mixing races, do you consider a chinese person dating a korean person mixing? is it mixing if you're staying within the broad asian category? and what about those who are closer to mideastern asians dating pacific asians? how do you define racial mixing, i guess is my question...

I'm totally sensitive. In fact I hate 'em. Everytime I see a mixed couple I have to go up to them and scream "Are you people CRAZY!?? DON'T MIX THE RACES!!! YOUR KIDS WILL BE PSYCHO!!!" as I pound my chest.

is there a thread you want to direct me to in order to understand what you're talking about better? why do you think mixed raced children will be psycho? i think that's an unfair broad statement... and i'd like to know more about why you feel so strongly enough to want to scream in people's faces like that...

[BeTheReds]

because i think if people take the effort to try to understand people's thinking/psychology behind their feelings, it helps. maybe i'm just like that, i guess.

Well no offense, but you seem to be telling a lot of people how they should think and act. You might want to tone statements like the following down...

if you're a product of a mixed couple, you're here and you're special, and maybe you'd be more sensitive to seeing other mixed couples.

Assumptions like these are dangerous

[LaiSteve66]

is there a thread you want to direct me to in order to understand what you're talking about better? why do you think mixed raced children will be psycho? i think that's an unfair broad statement... and i'd like to know more about why you feel so strongly enough to want to scream in people's faces like that...

You can't take him seriously.

[SunWuKong]

yeah, and that's why i'm trying to understand it better. but my misconception doesn't stem from what you wrote above, rather than the fact that if you're a product of a mixed couple, you're here and you're special, and maybe you'd be more sensitive to seeing other mixed couples. but, obviously i'm wrong.

it never occured to you that there are mixed-race people out there whose parents are divorced and who thinks it was for the best that they are divorced? i don't see how being the product of a mixed-race couple would automatically make you "sensitive", and by that i'm assuming you mean more agreeable to, mixed-race couples.

i mean, i'm sure there are mixed-race people that falls under your assumption though. but that's not always going to be true of every mixed-race person.

[LaiSteve66]

Race mixing has consequences, both on the family level and the macro society level.

On the family level, there are many parents who race-mix, unaware that they are opening a can of worms. Potential consequences on the family level can be, negative family reaction from one or both sides, "washing" and cultural suppression from one parent. Complaints from one parent that their child is too [insert race] and a multitude of other things that mixed-race kids may have to endure based on how their parents raise them and the attitudes of the extended family on both sides.

On the societal level, there are things people have to put up with depending on where they live. Some mixed-race people have it easier than others. Sometimes the purebreds don't accept them as one of them and have to deal with a lot of racism. I've actually met half-Viets who grew up in Vietnam and they all had horror stories of bad treatment because they were "half-American". It all depends on where they live.

Whether or not a mixed-race person is "sensitive" to IR I think is a product of their own experience as a mixed person. Those with negative experience may be more cynical torwards it and those with neutral (not sure that there is a positive) experience more supportive. Again this is just my theory.

In my own experience, I escaped most of the macro level consequences by growing up in an area of extreme diversity and tolerance thus I was able to blend in and not be an outcast.

At home I wasn't so lucky. I had to put up with a mother who told my dad not to teach me Vietnamese and this caused problems for me when dealing with Vietnamese people. She accused me being too Asian or Vietnamese and had a hard time accepting that I "fell over" to the Asian side. She accused me of having an identity crisis because I rejected her assertion that I was White.

Based on my own experience, when I see an IR couple, it doesn't arouse any emotion in me. However, I also believe that there are people who aren't cut out to be race-mixers and my mother was one of them. I suffered the consequences of her failed "whitewashing" attempt which has caused me to believe that people should not blindly engage in IR and race-mixing and there are some situations where I would discourage it.

These are just my thoughts, anyone is free to agree or disagree with it.

Here's a must read for any IR couple because as an IR couple, you are potential race-mixers.

http://forums.yellowworld.org/showthread.php?t=23980

[Fireblade]

Ok.... serious question here:

Do you want our advice, sympathy or opinion?

Advice and opinion we can give.

Sympathy is another question.

[lee duk sun]

Well no offense, but you seem to be telling a lot of people how they should think and act. You might want to tone statements like the following down...


Assumptions like these are dangerous

i'm sorry, but i was going under the feeling that ALL PEOPLE are special. unless of course, they're a serial killer or somethin' horrible... i think individual people are special. is that such a bad and dangerous assumption?

i don't think i'm telling people how to think and act, man. but apparently there are people who want to think so... the only thing i'm against is people acting rudely inappropriate when it's not warranted, such as what i encountered in korea.

Ok.... serious question here:

Do you want our advice, sympathy or opinion?

Advice and opinion we can give.

Sympathy is another question.

well i initially came here looking for information and ignorantly, for just a teeny little hint of sympathy. but i've learned that lesson.

Race mixing has consequences, both on the family level and the macro society level.

http://forums.yellowworld.org/showthread.php?t=23980

hey, thanks for all of your thoughtful comments. i really appreciate 'em and am going to read them again tomorrow when i'm more 'with it' after over a day of traveling... ugh.

personally, i've always thought if i wanted kids, i'd adopt a baby from korea. perhaps slightly ingnorantly, i used to think it'd be a special bond we could share and that i could give her some of the strength that i've accumulated first hand.

but honestly, i've always been 95% certain that i don't want kids at all. i know all of the beautiful ways they can add to your life, but there are simply too many things i want to accomplish and do, and i'm afraid having a child would be more selfish of me, because i wouldn't be able to give them what they need without feeling a little resentful–and that's not cool.

anyway, thanks again for your reply. xOx

and PS to anyone who might harp on the fact that i said "her"... yes, if i adopted i would prefer a girl. and that comes from the fact that growing up, i was often told that there were 2 main reasons why i was abandoned: 1) because my mother was single and couldn't take care of me, and 2) because i was a girl. obviously there are hundreds of other possible reasons, and that's what my newest book is about.

[tapestrybabe]

well i initially came here looking for information and ignorantly, for just a teeny little hint of sympathy. but i've learned that lesson.

you should join a forum
where you can discuss things...
with ppl who share the same
sorta adoptee background as yourself...
your mostly dealing with asian americans here...

go here instead...
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/koreanadopteesworldwide/

my main problem with them is that..
they can get to be a bit too whiney...
expressing a lot of angst sometimes...
but i think you would fit in tho...
since quite a few of them
would better relate to ya...

[kasia]

on jan 31, 2006 she said:

yes, i am reading this now and it wasn't a threat. i'm basically calling people on their ways, but apparently it's falling on deaf ears. and this is why after i make a couple more points i AM going. so feel free to say what you want knowing i won't be back to defend myself ;-)

so why is this thread still going?

[tapestrybabe]

so why is this thread still going?

to the powers that be...
close this thread
before she replies again...