asian boys not wanted?

[soulman386]

I've been doing some research on adopting a child from asia. I've read that the vast majority of couples wanting to adopt from asia want to adopt a girl. When interviewed many couples can't explain why they feel that way. Evidently this is a sticky subject. For example, in Cambodia it's common to see a high proportion of boys abandoned in the orphanages. Why are the asian boys not wanted?

[AltimaGTR]

At first I thought this was another one of those "whiny asian boy" threads, heh.

I dunno, do parents just think that boys are more of a hassle to raise or something?

[soulman386]

For russian children I read it's about 52% girls adopted to 48% boys adopted. For China it's something like 96% girls 4% boys adopted. It's looks like the race of the boy is a factor.

[SunWuKong]

For russian children I read it's about 52% girls adopted to 48% boys adopted. For China it's something like 96% girls 4% boys adopted. It's looks like the race of the boy is a factor.

i don't know about adopting parents' preferences, but for China, most abandoned children are girls. and abandoned boys probably get snatched up fairly quickly by local adopting parents.

[uhhden]

I think maybe in Asia, it happens that society and culture make it that more girls get abandoned than boys... which is why in China the ratio of male to female is grossly unnatural.

[Paradox]

I think maybe in Asia, it happens that society and culture make it that more girls get abandoned than boys... which is why in China the ratio of male to female is grossly unnatural.
I don't think this is necessarily true. We discussed this before and I remember the orphaned ratio of boys and girls weren't that incredibly different. Personally, I think the U.S. has an aversion to non white boys in general. The same statistics are true from kids adopted from other non white countries. The vast majority of adoptees tend to be girls which leads to a very interesting debate about the gender influenced role in adoption in the U.S. Personally, I find it a more than a little questionable why some white people choose to adopt young asian girls specifically.

[mr. x]

i kinda find that figure iffy, 96% girls?

[Chu Chi]

This is a very interesting phenomenon that I have been unaware of even though Ive probably been looking at it my entire life.

Please continue, its very interesting.

CC

[Thanol]

I was in Sociology class and the subject of female infanticide came up. My god, I was like "geeze lay off." Anyways the teacher says "there are orphanages filled with Chinese girls" and I was like "there are orphanages filled with Chinese boys! That was a biased comment."

Ugh. This is so not going to be a fun semester. I swear everything in that class is biased toward conservtive Western morals.

[Banana]

Perhaps you should set them straight and let them be privy to their western "holier-than-thou" attitude.

Nothing is better than poking holes in those types of arguments.

[Craig]

I was in Sociology class and the subject of female infanticide came up. My god, I was like "geeze lay off." Anyways the teacher says "there are orphanages filled with Chinese girls" and I was like "there are orphanages filled with Chinese boys! That was a biased comment."

Ugh. This is so not going to be a fun semester. I swear everything in that class is biased toward conservtive Western morals.If you do a double take to examine the situation, would conservative Westerns really care about gender inequality in China ? Wouldn't they just be more interested in how they can make money out of the 1.3 billion strong citizenry ?

Wouldn't it be more of a Western liberal, ... women are being oppressed and traditional men are evil agenda at work ?

[Thanol]

If you do a double take to examine the situation, would conservative Westerns really care about gender inequality in China ? Wouldn't they just be more interested in how they can make money out of the 1.3 billion strong citizenry ?

Wouldn't it be more of a Western liberal, ... women are being oppressed and traditional men are evil agenda at work ?
Oh, I wasn't talking specifically on that, it was more of the sexuality things we were talking about, i.e. prude straight is good, anything else is bad and harming the children.

But from the situation, I got a "Christians are better" and "non-Christians are uncivilized" attitude.

Anyways, back on topic. Has anyone ever met a boy adopted from China? I mean there are a ton of Chinese girls, being adopted. They're everywhere.

[grimfan]

Angelina Jolie adopted an Asian boy.

I think there's this perception that Asian culture is incredibly harsh towards its women, and it triggers the paternal instinct in outsiders.

[uhhden]

Angelina Jolie adopted an Asian boy.

She also kisses her half-brother...

[SunWuKong]

I was in Sociology class and the subject of female infanticide came up. My god, I was like "geeze lay off." Anyways the teacher says "there are orphanages filled with Chinese girls" and I was like "there are orphanages filled with Chinese boys! That was a biased comment."

Ugh. This is so not going to be a fun semester. I swear everything in that class is biased toward conservtive Western morals.


actually a lot of parents in the country side simply don't register new female births with the government, so officially, they don't have any daughters. this way they won't be fined for having more children to try to have a son. this skews the statistics on gender ratio in the Chinese population.

so you can mention that next time the subject comes up. there's a gender imbalance, but it's probably not as bad as western media makes it out to be.

[mr. x]

Angelina Jolie adopted an Asian boy.

I think there's this perception that Asian culture is incredibly harsh towards its women, and it triggers the paternal instinct in outsiders.
well technically he's cambodian and this thread seemed to be geared towards China but whatever

[uhhden]

well technically he's cambodian and this thread seemed to be geared towards China but whatever

I thought it was just Asian kids in general...but people just started talking about Chinese kids.

[Nakata]

I've been doing some research on adopting a child from asia. I've read that the vast majority of couples wanting to adopt from asia want to adopt a girl. When interviewed many couples can't explain why they feel that way. Evidently this is a sticky subject. For example, in Cambodia it's common to see a high proportion of boys abandoned in the orphanages. Why are the asian boys not wanted?

People are saying
1, that there are far more girls are in orpahanages than boys.
2, going on about western conservative figure curruption.

isn`t the issue created by the adopting couples this original post says couples wanting to adopt from Asia (so I assume we are talking mostly about white American couples?)
Couldn`t the answer be as simple and sad as they find the girls cuter.?

[returntosender]

Blonde hair/blue eye girls are the most adopted.

Black boys are the least adopted.

[uhhden]

Blonde hair/blue eye girls are the most adopted.

Black boys are the least adopted.

If you replace "adopted" with "desired in the dating pool," it holds generally holds true as well...not that I necessarily feel that same.

[soulman386]

If you replace "adopted" with "desired in the dating pool," it holds generally holds true as well...not that I necessarily feel that same.

In the USA black men are highly desired in the dating pool. If AMs had the success of black men there would be no complaints.

[grimfan]

In the USA black men are highly desired in the dating pool.

Eh, that's kind of a gray area. Yes, black men are highly desired sexual partners (among certain women) due to the taboo factor and social stereotypes, but dating material? The average black man is portrayed as irresponsible, lazy, untrustworthy, etc. I don't think that's good dating material.

I think more girls are adopted because families think girls are "easier" to raise. There's that old saying about how sons are sons until they get married, while daughters are daughters until you die.

[eos]

we have had several families come who have adopted chinese children. most families have girls but there was one group, consisting of 2 families, who adopted 2 boys, brothers and 3 girls, all sisters.

[Fireblade]

I think more girls are adopted because families think girls are "easier" to raise. There's that old saying about how sons are sons until they get married, while daughters are daughters until you die.

Really? I thought it was the other way around, because daughters marry into a family... while sons stay in the family. It kinda ties into the the taking of the family name, etc, etc.

[soulman386]

[QUOTE=grimfan]Eh, that's kind of a gray area. Yes, black men are highly desired sexual partners (among certain women) due to the taboo factor and social stereotypes, but dating material? The average black man is portrayed as irresponsible, lazy, untrustworthy, etc. I don't think that's good dating material.


I know several black men dating non-black women. They're in relationships. The whole taboo, sex partner image is ignorance. AMs can learn from black men about succeeding in the dating game.

[Irezumi Kiss]

AMs can learn from black men about succeeding in the dating game.
It's less about being Black and male than it is about loving who/what you are and having confidence in oneself.

Then again...

http://www.fresh99.com/images/steveurkelscar/urkel.jpg

[periwinkle]

I have talked to friends who have adopted (or in the process of adopting) from china. The one couple REALLY wanted a boy (they got a girl and are of course happy), but were told that it is very difficult to get a boy. THe other couple really wants a boy, the mother is white, father is taiwanese... they were told that since the dad is asian that they will get the best chance at getting a boy. One other thing they were told was that there are boys in the orphanages, but often the ones there are very sick or have medical issues, so ppl do not want to adopt the boys, b/c they are not as healthy. I do not know how much of this is true, however this is what the agencies are telling prospective parents who want to adopt from china. The first couple I mentioned is going to try to adopt again, but from korea, b/c they want a boy and said their chances of adopting a boy is better in korea, and also the babies in general are healthier. If we ever adopt, it will probably be through korea (less red tape and jumping through hoops, healthier babies, faster process, don't have to go to korea, but more expensive overall), and we want a girl, we have two boys already. Most ppl I know who already have kids that adopt, adopt girls, b/c they were not able to have a daughter, they had all boys.

[hannle]

i noticed that most asian parents who are adopting, can easily adopt asian boys, whereas most of non asian parents are adopting asian girls. Or is it just another wrong observation from me again.
my cousin is adopting their second chinese boy.

[fresh22]

I think part of it is based on misconceived perception, Asian girls are assumed to assimilate better to American life than Asian guys. Maybe because women seem less 'threatening' to the fabric of American society and culture. Or it could just be the couple's personal preference, maybe they think Asian boys would be more difficult to raise.

[mrcfo]

actually a lot of parents in the country side simply don't register new female births with the government, so officially, they don't have any daughters. this way they won't be fined for having more children to try to have a son. this skews the statistics on gender ratio in the Chinese population.

so you can mention that next time the subject comes up. there's a gender imbalance, but it's probably not as bad as western media makes it out to be.

Correct me if I am wrong because I'm not too familiar with the intricate details of the one child policy, but isnt it a deterrent rather than a strict law??? As I believe, you CAN have a 2nd child but then you're on your own, he/she doesnt get registered and has no support from the government.

I've known three overseas Chinese students (all female) whereby two have younger sisters and one has a younger brother. All were born in the mid 1980s (where by then I believe the policy would have been strictly enforced). There are many ways around the policy, bribery, "purchase" of being registered as a minority (minorities are not subejected to this social engineering policy) or simply if you're well off enough, who cares about public schooling and you can again always by ID cards...etc.

One of them from Wuhan even told me parents of prematurely dead babies might in some cases sell off their dead baby's "id" or birth cert. for a lump sum. She's also known a case whereby a child was "adopted" by a childless couple in exchange for $$$.

[tapestrybabe]

i dont know too much about the topic...
but generally speaking...
i thought in asia...
boys were more highly valued
than girls anyways...
so they would be less likely to
be given up...

and the whole process of it all...
i thought it was chosen for them who
the parents would get...
not the other way around...
the parents choosing...

but i could be wrong...

[eos]

money pretty much gets you whatever you want. and especially if you're from the states, you're seen as the ultimate supreme savior of these kids.
so many kids here need homes too, but you hardly hear about their plight.

[tapestrybabe]

but the topic of the thread is
why are asian girls adopted at
a higher rate than asian boys...

not...
why does international adoption...
seem to take place more...
than domestic...

[eos]

i was thinking about the adoptive parents not being able to choose. that's why i said money probably plays a big part in that. if they have the means to travel to another country, i think they'd expect to have a choice on which baby they bring home, and not just have any baby just foisted on them.

[SunWuKong]

Correct me if I am wrong because I'm not too familiar with the intricate details of the one child policy, but isnt it a deterrent rather than a strict law??? As I believe, you CAN have a 2nd child but then you're on your own, he/she doesnt get registered and has no support from the government.

I've known three overseas Chinese students (all female) whereby two have younger sisters and one has a younger brother. All were born in the mid 1980s (where by then I believe the policy would have been strictly enforced). There are many ways around the policy, bribery, "purchase" of being registered as a minority (minorities are not subejected to this social engineering policy) or simply if you're well off enough, who cares about public schooling and you can again always by ID cards...etc.

One of them from Wuhan even told me parents of prematurely dead babies might in some cases sell off their dead baby's "id" or birth cert. for a lump sum. She's also known a case whereby a child was "adopted" by a childless couple in exchange for $$$.

when it was first implemented, it was a strict policy. nowadays it's more of a deterrant. parents are fined for any child after the first child, and those children also don't get certain benefits like a free education. first-born twins, families in remote rural areas, and ethnic minorities are excluded from the One Child Policy.

an interesting fact is that those who want a son and can avoid or doesn't mind the penalties of the One Child Policy actually end up producing more girls than boys. basically they keep having babies until a son is born and then they stop.

[mrcfo]

when it was first implemented, it was a strict policy. nowadays it's more of a deterrant. parents are fined for any child after the first child, and those children also don't get certain benefits like a free education. first-born twins, families in remote rural areas, and ethnic minorities are excluded from the One Child Policy.

an interesting fact is that those who want a son and can avoid or doesn't mind the penalties of the One Child Policy actually end up producing more girls than boys. basically they keep having babies until a son is born and then they stop.

The way I see it, its really only a deterrant for the dirt poor. If I was a rich man, what stops me? I can afford to send my kids to a better place than China.

[SunWuKong]

The way I see it, its really only a deterrant for the dirt poor. If I was a rich man, what stops me? I can afford to send my kids to a better place than China.

i suppose. but if you were rich, you wouldn't care about the fines and extra costs you'd have to pay for having more than one child anyway.

and while there are rich people in China right now that didn't have a college education, it's been shown that (regardless of culture) if you're educated, you're less likely to have a lot of kids or even have any kids at all. and this is a point that India is aware of, so instead of having something like a One Child Policy, India implements grassroots campaigns on family planning and emphasizes better education. it hasn't been as effective as the One Child Policy, but it also doesn't have the negative repercussions that the One Child Policy sometimes have. HK did the same thing in the 80s, but i don't know how successful it was. right now though, i think local HK parents are actually producing on the average less than 2 children, but i think this has more to do with the fact that HK's population is urban, mostly middle class, and are aware of how crowded the city is.

and even regardless of education though, it's a fact that a lot of parents in urban China do only have one child.

[deez nuts]

i saw an episode of "next" on mtv. there was this vietnamese chick competing with a bunch of other girls for a date with this black guy. every contestant writes a brief descrip that mtv will show when they get off the bus. the dirty little pho eater wrote as one of her descrips: "will not date asian guys." lol.

[yoMAMA]

i saw an episode of "next" on mtv. there was this vietnamese chick competing with a bunch of other girls for a date with this black guy. every contestant writes a brief descrip that mtv will show when they get off the bus. the dirty little pho eater wrote as one of her descrips: "will not date asian guys." lol.

pho her.

[mr. x]

i saw an episode of "next" on mtv. there was this vietnamese chick competing with a bunch of other girls for a date with this black guy. every contestant writes a brief descrip that mtv will show when they get off the bus. the dirty little pho eater wrote as one of her descrips: "will not date asian guys." lol.
what's the verdict, was she a "no come back!" or a "you can HAVE her"

[uhhden]

what's the verdict, was she a "no come back!" or a "you can HAVE her"

probably a "you can have her."

[Paradox]

i saw an episode of "next" on mtv. there was this vietnamese chick competing with a bunch of other girls for a date with this black guy. every contestant writes a brief descrip that mtv will show when they get off the bus. the dirty little pho eater wrote as one of her descrips: "will not date asian guys." lol.
Let me guess, she had an affinity for super red lipstick, hoop earrings, and short little mini skirts that accentuated her fat westernized ass.

[mr. x]

Let me guess, she had an affinity for super red lipstick, hoop earrings, and short little mini skirts that accentuated her fat westernized ass.
one of those chicks who are like "OMG I HOPE HE HAS A FETISH!" and then get dropped after the first round

[Azn Retribution]

can we not let this de-evolve into another 'OMG AMERICA DESEXUAMAFIES ASIAN MEN, OMGWTFBBQ ASIAN WOMEN ARE RACE TRAITORS'

there's more of these threads than sanity allows.
go dig up one of them if you wanna discuss that


This is about sexual/racial bias in adoption.
if it exists, the reasoning behind it(if any singular common diaspora exists ) etc etc.


I have two adopted sisters from the phillippines.
Apparently my mom never wanted me =(
::tear:: ::violins:

she wanted girls. Its good for her though cuz me and my brother are both in college now and she's alone.

[mr. x]

she wanted girls. Its good for her though cuz me and my brother are both in college now and she's alone.
whoa, intense. do you know this for sure?

[Azn Retribution]

Yup.
she jokes about it alot.
but she really expected/wanted girls.

The doctor even thought my brother was a girl but they mis-read the sonogram or something.

I guess part of it is cuz i don't share a whole lot of interests with either of my parents. She wanted daughters to do girly things with.

I think mom's prefer daughters

father's prefer son's cuz they don't want to have to keep a FBI-style surveillance on their teenage daughter.

My sisters are cool though. age 8 and 9.
They sort of remind me of me and my brother cuz they are polar opposites in personality
One of them is a twin... but they wouldn't let my mom adopt the other twin...
separated twins are kinda sad.

[daffodil]

I read about the phenomenon you describe, soulman. It is attributed to economic factors vs. cultural factors.

By "Asian boys not being wanted", I assume you're talking about why they are abandoned in Vietnam.

In Vietnam and Thailand, the reason why boys aren't wanted is because they're economically less valuable. The thing you describe is particularly predominant in Thailand. It is because these countries are more poor than China. In poorer countries, sex tourism is a very big industry. Females have value because they can "work" and bring in more money to the family. Yes, I know it sounds horrible. But, from the perspective of a very poor family, a female can easily go into the cities and "work" for a living. Boys do not bring in as much money in an economy where the sex tourism industry thrives.

However, in China, there is a one-child policy. For a long period of time, it is thought that a male child will carry on the family name. No one wants their family name to die with an only child being a female, so they abandon their girls in order to try to have a son. Yes, I know it sounds bad, but you're also seeing it through the eyes of western culture.

However, tides are changing and we wind up with a lack of proportion in gender in modern China. Now, males compete more for females. There is a shortage of females to take as wives and many men spend the rest of their lives unwed and many family lines are coming to an end (unless the man marries a foreigner woman). The mens' families worry and they try wooing the female's family by treating them better. The families of females see this and it again becomes advantageous to have a female child in modern China.

It has a lot to do with gender ratios in the population. Cultural attitudes in every society change over time, depending on population fluctuations and economic climate.

[soulman386]

I read about the phenomenon you describe, soulman. It is attributed to economic factors vs. cultural factors.

By "Asian boys not being wanted", I assume you're talking about why they are abandoned in Vietnam.

In Vietnam and Thailand, the reason why boys aren't wanted is because they're economically less valuable. The thing you describe is particularly predominant in Thailand. It is because these countries are more poor than China. In poorer countries, sex tourism is a very big industry. Females have value because they can "work" and bring in more money to the family. Yes, I know it sounds horrible. But, from the perspective of a very poor family, a female can easily go into the cities and "work" for a living. Boys do not bring in as much money in an economy where the sex tourism industry thrives.

However, in China, there is a one-child policy. For a long period of time, it is thought that a male child will carry on the family name. No one wants their family name to die with an only child being a female, so they abandon their girls in order to try to have a son. Yes, I know it sounds bad, but you're also seeing it through the eyes of western culture.

However, tides are changing and we wind up with a lack of proportion in gender in modern China. Now, males compete more for females. There is a shortage of females to take as wives and many men spend the rest of their lives unwed and many family lines are coming to an end (unless the man marries a foreigner woman). The mens' families worry and they try wooing the female's family by treating them better. The families of females see this and it again becomes advantageous to have a female child in modern China.

It has a lot to do with gender ratios in the population. Cultural attitudes in every society change over time, depending on population fluctuations and economic climate.



I was referring to the preference for girls on the part of white american people wanting to adopt an asian child. I think that says something about how asian men are perceived.

[grimfan]

Black boys don't fare any better than Asian boys in the adoption game either. Maybe it's an innate desire for a patriarchal white society to snatch all the females from foreigners.

[daffodil]

Ah, ok, then I think what grimfan just said.

[Keke]

Black boys don't fare any better than Asian boys in the adoption game either. Maybe it's an innate desire for a patriarchal white society to snatch all the females from foreigners.

No. There is a predominant belief that Asian girls are less valued in Asian countries and are much more likely to be faced with a life of destitution.

i.e. The sex slave trade is no secret.

Keep in mind though, that most people with a heart for adoption just want to help an orphaned child... whether its a boy or girl.

[Azn Retribution]

yes.

good intentions.